I.T is a dysfunctional subject at school...

[Mazza558]

Seriously, it is. I thought I was insane not to choose any I.T-related subjects when I was younger (unless you count graphic design), but looking at the UK curriculum makes me horrified...

- It's pointless teaching kids to learn an interface when it will have changed by the time they start work
- It's also pointless teaching kids to use a program when many things will have changed when they start work
- Having a formal reward for understanding the basics of using a PC at work is pointless - using a PC nowadays is regarded as a basic skill anyway. Kids who are only 5 or 6 are already adept now.
-The curriculum sucks ALL creativity out of things like web design. The scenario for a project is where you are given an EXACT spec to work with. The spec is so limited that you can only use frontpage, so it's bound to look bad, no matter what.

Therefore, I propose replacing ICT with Computing at lower levels for those who are interested - with computing, emphasis is apparently focused on understanding how computers work instead.

/endrant

[Barrucadu]

I do IT for GCSE and will be doing so for A Level - merely because I think not doing it will hurt my chances of getting into a university for computer science.

It is a terrible subject. I was not allowed to make a website because it was considered 'too basic' (I was going to involve MySQL and PHP...) and instead had to make a spreadsheet. Yeah, spreadsheet, real complex...

IT is pretty much "How to use MS Office". I wasn't allowed to use OpenOffice.org without explicitly stating in the coursework that is it compatible with MS Office, because otherwise the exam board would think I was cheating (what, making the screenshots in GIMP or something?) and give me 0 marks.

It is a very useless subject.

[Redache]

Mathematics would probably help you more with getting onto a CS course than Computing (Computing does work though), as I found out when I applied for Uni this year and turns out I have to do a foundation year 'cause I have neither for A-levels. I don't mind because I've been out of education for 3 years and it will help me get back into learning again (Although i don't think I've ever stopped).

I refused to do IT in school because I knew more than the teacher and that bothered me from year 7 onwards.

Why should an 11 year old kid now more than a 40+ teacher with a degree in the subject? (Actually our It teacher just had maths so maths=It god apparently.)

They also didn't go in depth enough for me. I've been able to use office applications since the age of 7 or 8, it's not that hard to figure out and I don't really want to spend 2 years going over something I know.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

One thing that really interests me is this course (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7654043762021156507), which describes how to build a computer all the way from the very basics; transistors. The concepts are simple enough to be taught at just about any level, and would make for a fantastic grade school IT program. Alas, it does not seem to be a very popular course outside of Israel, but I for one told all the IT teachers in my vicinity about it. This is a much better thing to teach than "how to push the Make Web Site button in Dreamweaver", since it also demystifies the concept of an operating system, which is something not quite grasped by an amazing number of people. Another subject not taught very well is electronics, where students build blindly off of schematics to make blinking lights, for example. The knowledge here can apply to that field, too.

[SZF2001]

I think I posted this before, but oh well...

The tech guys at our school only know Windows. That's it, that's all, that's everything. We are running thin clients with Vista, and they have this program called NetSupport to literally see what everyone is doing - nothing wrong with that, I mean I didn't buy the computer and I didn't buy the bandwith... But there are free options, there are things I'd LOVE to show them, but they just can't grasp it. Yes, they've seen me run Debian, and they have no idea how I set my machine up to be a webhost box (hosting a website on my box, I dunno if I've heard the term before or if I coined it myself, but it's probably been said). All they know is install Apache and find it in C:/Program Files/Apache and set up their index.html files there... It's basically the same in /var/ww/ ... But they just can't grasp it.

If your going to be a tech person, you really should broaden your horizons. Just because a company is dominant in the market doesn't mean you should leave out the little guys.

[futureproof]

Don't forget that general education is for everyone, not just the adept. i teach, it's really crushing to have to teach to the mean level when there are some students that can absorb everything I can throw at them. On the other hand there are some students who cannot fathom the mean level. General education will always be the same, catering to the average.

[Barrucadu]

I would have no problem that - general education should be catering for the average. Except that I go to a private school, where you have to take an exam to get in. We have a harder maths course - the IGCSE - and that's it, everything else is just as ridiculously easy as if I were in a public school.
Not that I'm saying the Maths IGCSE is difficult, far from it...

[mcsimon]

Computer science at my high school was very useful. We did units in programming and database and used PHP and MySQL.

[NightwishFan]

My school offered typing and internet apps class. It was so basic I got bored. No free reign ever. The whole class I was in trouble for not staying on topic and for making webpages with notepad rather than using dreamweaver with the rest. Lame.

The school used Windows 2000 on a Windows server as well. Login time was like 15 minutes for those things. Eventually my teacher cracked and gave me an A and let me on my own so I can't complain. (Note I still did the work just my own way.)

After I was done with school, learned a high school nearby taught video production classes, in which I could get more than an A in. I use Adobe After Effects, Premiere, and my favorite, Sony Vegas 7 constantly. Would have been a breeze and fun as well.

I am not bragging its just the truth. They aim to give everyone the basics. People aren't so slow they have to repeat the same stuff forever are they?

[jinx099]

Seriously, it is. I thought I was insane not to choose any I.T-related subjects when I was younger (unless you count graphic design), but looking at the UK curriculum makes me horrified...

- It's pointless teaching kids to learn an interface when it will have changed by the time they start work
- It's also pointless teaching kids to use a program when many things will have changed when they start work
- Having a formal reward for understanding the basics of using a PC at work is pointless - using a PC nowadays is regarded as a basic skill anyway. Kids who are only 5 or 6 are already adept now.
-The curriculum sucks ALL creativity out of things like web design. The scenario for a project is where you are given an EXACT spec to work with. The spec is so limited that you can only use frontpage, so it's bound to look bad, no matter what.

Therefore, I propose replacing ICT with Computing at lower levels for those who are interested - with computing, emphasis is apparently focused on understanding how computers work instead.

/endrant

Thats a really poor attitude. I could apply that same concept to almost anything. Teaching "IT" is more about teaching the concepts, not specific app, interfaces, or whatever. Are you in high school or college?

I recommend you pursue a career in geology because linux and and technology will change so much by the time you get out of school.

[popch]

I recommend you pursue a career in geology

Have you taken the drifting of the plates into account?

[NightwishFan]

popch your sig is brilliant. :)

[Arkenzor]

I didn't have any kind of IT course until that optional "Applied Mathematics" course I chose to take in high school, which was basically a programming course, only more useless. To sum it up:

- Learn Visual Basic, and Visual Basic only. Yeah, and the teacher actually gave us a CD with a cracked VB so we could work at home. How great is that in a public school? And what about a free language we're actually allowed to use at home?

- No notion of good design of whatever, you start typing, and when you get lost you try to figure out what you already wrote using the step-by-step debugger. I don't even know whether it's actually possible to add comments in a VB program because I've never been told how to do it.

- Ah, but we didn't explore the only possible reason why someone would want to use VB, i.e. easy interfacing with Office & Co.



My bottom line will be: forget about the useless/biased courses you can get in "early" education, just do math and wait until college for some real stuff.

[mips]

One thing that really interests me is this course (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7654043762021156507), which describes how to build a computer all the way from the very basics; transistors. The concepts are simple enough to be taught at just about any level, and would make for a fantastic grade school IT program. Alas, it does not seem to be a very popular course outside of Israel, but I for one told all the IT teachers in my vicinity about it. This is a much better thing to teach than "how to push the Make Web Site button in Dreamweaver", since it also demystifies the concept of an operating system, which is something not quite grasped by an amazing number of people. Another subject not taught very well is electronics, where students build blindly off of schematics to make blinking lights, for example. The knowledge here can apply to that field, too.

Do you honestly think high school students would be capable of coping with this subject matter? Don't get me wrong I think it is a great course but this is usually something done at university level. We had something similair but was made up of like 2 courses, had to build a 8080 pc with I/O ports etc and program the the beast.

Btw, the book can be purchased from here:
http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Computing-Systems-Building-Principles/dp/0262640686/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205141158&sr=1-1
http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11453

[popch]

popch your sig is brilliant. :)

Why, you're very kind. Thank you.

[Dr Small]

Since I am homeschooled, I hold my own IT class and teach myself about computers from various Computer books along with building my own computers, tearing them apart, learning the parts, installing OSes, computer security, and network configuration.

Then it turns out I am the official IT guy around here and fix everyone's computers :p

[liquidfunk]

Since I am homeschooled, I hold my own IT class and teach myself about computers from various Computer books along with building my own computers, tearing them apart, learning the parts, installing OSes, computer security, and network configuration.

Then it turns out I am the official IT guy around here and fix everyone's computers :p

Sounds just like me.

I'm always called to fix peoples computers. Love it. Chance to show off the penguin!!

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Do you honestly think high school students would be capable of coping with this subject matter? Don't get me wrong I think it is a great course but this is usually something done at university level. We had something similair but was made up of like 2 courses, had to build a 8080 pc with I/O ports etc and program the the beast.

Btw, the book can be purchased from here:
http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Computing-Systems-Building-Principles/dp/0262640686/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205141158&sr=1-1
http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11453

The amazing thing is that they could. This folks who figured out that course are geniuses. Granted, not your average high school kids, but students who take IT generally (stereotypically) have prior interest in the field. That interest during class can be lost when the course turns out to not be what it's described as, but this is the type of course whose actual short description can sound really exciting yet also be entirely truthful.
Having said that, it could be a horriffic failure in a "Western" high school, too. Kids these days... :P
End of elementary school, maybe? No, really, I honestly think that could happen, at least for the lower level steps. It's no more complicated than standard maths, and it is a great base to demystifying the numerous abstractions we operate with. (Those being computer interfaces and base 10 numbers). Computer science seems gearing up to something like the space race, so I think now is a good time to promote learning which does not translate to Microsoft's market strategy. ("Make them need us").

[Mazza558]

Thats a really poor attitude. I could apply that same concept to almost anything. Teaching "IT" is more about teaching the concepts, not specific app, interfaces, or whatever. Are you in high school or college?

I recommend you pursue a career in geology because linux and and technology will change so much by the time you get out of school.

Yes, I.T is supposed to be about concepts, but all the major GCSE exam boards in the UK are focused on learning an interface. My argument is that using a computer is a transferable skill nowadays, just like reading and writing, and especially for people to cope in modern jobs. I don't think there needs to be a seperate subject for it unless it actually deals with concepts. It's like having a form of the English subject where you can only write in a certain style of handwriting, and all but one paragraph for creative writing is identical to everyone else's.

[futureproof]

Yes, I.T is supposed to be about concepts, but all the major GCSE exam boards in the UK are focused on learning an interface. My argument is that using a computer is a transferable skill nowadays, just like reading and writing, and especially for people to cope in modern jobs. I don't think there needs to be a seperate subject for it unless it actually deals with concepts. It's like having a form of the English subject where you can only write in a certain style of handwriting, and all but one paragraph for creative writing is identical to everyone else's.

Education in England has been going downhill ever since they replaced O levels with GCSE's, do they even have physics/chemistry/biology anymore or is it all meshed into some "applied sciences" course?

Anyway, I can understand your frustration I was always bored out of my mind at school, have you thought about applying your intellect in another way? You HAVE TO, for the most part, do as you're told and what the curriculum tells you during schooling, there's no avoiding it, you should stick at it, if it's boring, put up with it (it's only a 40 or so minute class), if it's too easy then great you will get A+ for everything.

You can learn the real stuff on your own, you probably already know more than your teacher can teach you. At the end of the day, when you're ready to move up to the next level (A levels i guess) the only thing that the college will be interested in will be your grades.

It will most likely be the same at college (unless you have a kick buttock teacher), maybe you'll be a bit more challenged at university (I wasn't, I found it to be a lot of jumping through hoops to be honest but..).

All I can say is, do what you have to do and do it better than everyone else. Keep doing your own thing outside that. It might suck now, but at the end of it you will have all the top qualifications (expected by most employers) you need to get into many places and also a set of extra skills that will set you apart from the mediocre.

[Superkoop]

Since I am homeschooled, I hold my own IT class and teach myself about computers from various Computer books along with building my own computers, tearing them apart, learning the parts, installing OSes, computer security, and network configuration.


Yeah same here. I'm home schooled and I taught myself everything about computers.
For a while I was worried I may not be learning what they are learning in the public schools around me, so I took a couple classes in the public school, the computer class being one of them. After I started taking the class I was disappointed how useless it was. Like I was actually hoping I was behind so I could learn something, but alas, it was a class teaching how to use Microsoft Office. From a teacher who didn't even know how to teach it, herself often having problems when she tried helping the students. (We just read some book from MS about using Microsoft office, and it had example problems in it we were supposed to do.)

I really wish they would teach things about how computers actually work (hardware, operating systems, lower level things like this), not how to use proprietary programs. Understanding computers is far more useful than what is taught now, because when you understand something you are able to use it better. (cars are a good example of this, when you know how one works, one is able to use it more proficiently)

[Dr Small]

I think that public schools under teaching students on computers is a conspiracy ^_^

[cprofitt]

I didn't have any kind of IT course until that optional "Applied Mathematics" course I chose to take in high school, which was basically a programming course, only more useless. To sum it up:

- Learn Visual Basic, and Visual Basic only. Yeah, and the teacher actually gave us a CD with a cracked VB so we could work at home. How great is that in a public school? And what about a free language we're actually allowed to use at home?

- No notion of good design of whatever, you start typing, and when you get lost you try to figure out what you already wrote using the step-by-step debugger. I don't even know whether it's actually possible to add comments in a VB program because I've never been told how to do it.

- Ah, but we didn't explore the only possible reason why someone would want to use VB, i.e. easy interfacing with Office & Co.



My bottom line will be: forget about the useless/biased courses you can get in "early" education, just do math and wait until college for some real stuff.

More likely the teacher gave you a CD with Visual Studio Express (with VB as the language)... the Express editions are free.

[cprofitt]

I can understand some of the frustration you guys have... but realize that 80% of your class mates likely are not as good as you are with computer and they are using Windows or OSX not Linux.

This is typically why schools choose Visual Studio Express... though I would prefer to see them use Python.

I also find that most people good at IT didn't take IT in college.

[3rdalbum]

At high school, I took Information Technology. I ended off showing the teacher/network administrator how to drag and drop files onto applications to open them. Heh. He'd never seen that before.

To his credit, although he taught us Visual Basic (or rather, gave us a file full of worksheets for us to go through) he also taught us Turbo Pascal. Yeah, I know, it was a dead language then and it's even deader now. But at least the skillset for Pascal is more transferrable than for Visual Basic.

Then, my final unit in university was "Industry Information Technology". Which industry was this? Well, obviously the industry that uses Excel, Publisher and Access; and studies ADSL plans to find out which is the best value for money. I seem to recall doing my Publisher assignment in Macromedia Freehand :-)

[Mazza558]

Education in England has been going downhill ever since they replaced O levels with GCSE's, do they even have physics/chemistry/biology anymore or is it all meshed into some "applied sciences" course?

Anyway, I can understand your frustration I was always bored out of my mind at school, have you thought about applying your intellect in another way? You HAVE TO, for the most part, do as you're told and what the curriculum tells you during schooling, there's no avoiding it, you should stick at it, if it's boring, put up with it (it's only a 40 or so minute class), if it's too easy then great you will get A+ for everything.

You can learn the real stuff on your own, you probably already know more than your teacher can teach you. At the end of the day, when you're ready to move up to the next level (A levels i guess) the only thing that the college will be interested in will be your grades.

It will most likely be the same at college (unless you have a kick buttock teacher), maybe you'll be a bit more challenged at university (I wasn't, I found it to be a lot of jumping through hoops to be honest but..).

All I can say is, do what you have to do and do it better than everyone else. Keep doing your own thing outside that. It might suck now, but at the end of it you will have all the top qualifications (expected by most employers) you need to get into many places and also a set of extra skills that will set you apart from the mediocre.

I'm an AS level student at the moment, and I don't do I.T. I have, however, seen what some of my friends had to do, and I did do an ICT short course in GCSE.

[panda726]

I think that public schools under teaching students on computers is a conspiracy ^_^

I wish it were different (if things continue unchanged life might be rather bleak), but I agree wholeheartedly on this one. I too am homeschooled (or more was now. The lines blur), and find that while in some areas my knowledge might be less than it could be, I can say with certainty that in areas where it matters to me (computers, marquetry, music) my skills are much more advanced than they otherwise would be. For one, I am disqualified from amateur art competitions, at least if I am entering marquetry, at 19. I know how to setup and administer a multi-OS network, which I think may be starting to border on enterprise type, albeit with quirks.

Tor

[regomodo]

I did dual award ICT for a-levels. I got an A/AB. Looking back,what they "taught" was a waste of time and have never used the software used since i.e. Frontpage, access, publisher.

At least the good stuff i taught myself, as they didn't provide it. HTML, Gimp, video editing

[Arkenzor]

While looking for a good french language programming book for some friends of mine, I discovered that Belgian high schools (I think, I'm not really sure about the years conversion) offer a Science & Informatics option including a full two-years Python course. I took a look at the course notes (they're available here (http://www.framasoft.net/article1971.html), check them out if you understand french), which were adapted and heavily extended from the excellent How to Think Like a Computer Scientist (http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkCSpy/), and man do I wish I'd been born in Belgium.

Guess IT at school isn't a lost cause everywhere.

[fluteflute]

At my school they have done the DiDA (http://dida.edexcel.org.uk/home/) specification for many years. There are 4 units each worth a GCSE.

Look at the specification (http://dida.edexcel.org.uk/home/spb/sept07/unit1/)!


Unit 1 - For Level 2 the publications required are a Danceometer quiz (spreadsheet), an invitation, personalised play lists (from a database), a personalised sponsor form and an on-screen publication aimed at potential participants and sponsors.

Unit 2 - For Level 2 there is one final product, the storybook, which consists of a cover page, contents page, main story pages with two routes and two different animated endings.

Unit 3 - For Level 2 the graphic products required are two 2D designs for characters and images of the 3D characters which can be made from them, a backdrop, a design for a packaging top, a representation of the packaging and an on-screen product consisting of still images which is designed to encourage use of the kit.

Unit 4 - Students are required to work in teams to plan a campaign. This enterprise is not about making money but about promoting awareness and encouraging people to take action. Selecting an issue that they care about and which needs to be addressed will be crucial to success. The individual model has a different focus in this project. It is produced later, concentrating on materials for the campaign strategy.

This is rediculously easy. It is 100% coursework - no exams of any kind.