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madjr
March 8th, 2008, 04:13 PM
I need some feedback (specially for new comers) if you think that if an Ubuntu compatible hardware store existed it would had helped you or others with migrating faster and easily to Ubuntu, similarly to that of an "Apple" store but for Ubuntu and only online to reduce costs.

Easily find and purchase Ubuntu compatible systems and specifically "know to work" peripherals ( internal/external dialup modems, Usb adsl modems, wireless cards, Usb wifi devices, bluetooth devices, printers, scanners, video/tv-card models, webcams, etc.) .

The main reasons for it being official are the following:

1- Better awareness of Ubuntu and Canonical with Hardware manufacturers/vendors.

2- Products not only compatible with Linux (not only a Hardware compatibility list), but products known to work out of the box and supported 100% with Ubuntu (no need for headaches by recompiling kernel stuff or following lengthy how-tos which sometimes simply don't work by being outdated)

3- 1 official, easy to find place, You know there will always be stock, get easy reference and fast support (by the community or commercial support directly by canonical).

4- Huge reduction of support costs and efforts. There's no more need to try and support all the hardware in the world.

5- Additional funds to speed up Ubuntu development, hardware testing and bug squashing.

while i posted the idea here with a better description :KS:
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/3575/

i would like beginner feedback, specially if as a non tech geek and your experience :)

ps.
oh gee look, another "Ubuntu sucks" syndrome because of incompatible hardware... (yea it's ubuntu's fault not his "tested and built for windows" hardware... yupy):
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4476182

oh and sadly, here's an example of how you would find compatible hardware today:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=492856

typical peripheral problems:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=57706

do not take this slightly, this is 1 of the 3 biggest problems of Linux today.

Sukarn
March 8th, 2008, 04:20 PM
I can see only one problem here. Compatibility sometimes breaks for short periods of times when a new version is released.

I've had this happen to me with my sound card, but it was fixed quite fast.

ugm6hr
March 8th, 2008, 04:22 PM
It would make things easier for everyone.

However, it's main use would be as a Hardware compatibility list.

Particularly if it was online only, it is easy enough to find hardware details of devices that are compatible and then buy the same product locally.

The main appeal of the Apple stores is that they are trendy lifestyle stores who also offer support. This simply isn't possible online.

So for the time being, a decent hardware compatibility list would do for me...

Additionally, hardware sellers that support Ubuntu already exist, and I don't see them doing a roaring trade.

PS: I moved this to the cafe before posting.

GOROSSI
March 8th, 2008, 04:47 PM
Good Idea to Get User's to migrate from Windows

But If the Hardware's not as cheap as the Big Companies the comsumer is not going to switch in my view unless Microsoft Makes A Complete ME Style Mess Up

madjr
March 8th, 2008, 05:08 PM
Good Idea to Get User's to migrate from Windows

But If the Hardware's not as cheap as the Big Companies the comsumer is not going to switch in my view unless Microsoft Makes A Complete ME Style Mess Up

hardware for linux is cheap (just not easy to find), when it's easy to find in at least in official/sponsored store(s), you get demand and this demand makes it even cheaper.

billgoldberg
March 8th, 2008, 05:29 PM
Sure an online "ubuntu" shop would be good, so you know your hardware is 100% compatible.

GOROSSI
March 8th, 2008, 05:33 PM
hardware for linux is cheap (just not easy to find), when it's easy to find in at least in official/sponsored store(s), you get demand and this demand makes it even cheaper.

Yes I see your point as I have a Cheap 300 Celeron based Notebook with ubuntu which you can get with Vista But what was trying to say was If Significant numbers of Windows users
migrated to Ubuntu or similar say 50% due a poor release of Windows e.g ME.

A Complete desktop to play High Spec Open GL Games would still set you back as much a Windows machine minus the license of course.
This is the only area which linux can't compete now but a 50% user shift would change it as publishers do not write the software.

madjr
March 9th, 2008, 05:14 AM
Yes I see your point as I have a Cheap 300 Celeron based Notebook with ubuntu which you can get with Vista But what was trying to say was If Significant numbers of Windows users
migrated to Ubuntu or similar say 50% due a poor release of Windows e.g ME.

A Complete desktop to play High Spec Open GL Games would still set you back as much a Windows machine minus the license of course.
This is the only area which linux can't compete now but a 50% user shift would change it as publishers do not write the software.

even 10% marketshare is enough to get about everyone to develop for Linux.

success brings in more success :guitar:

macogw
March 9th, 2008, 06:01 AM
Er....my option's not there. Yes, it would make it easier for people who don't want to do research on what works. I don't mind researching, so I've never lost money on it. I'm sure others have though.

steveneddy
March 9th, 2008, 06:11 AM
http://www.system76.com/

HotShotDJ
March 9th, 2008, 06:28 AM
I didn't like any of the choices in the poll. Becoming an international hardware reseller would be a nightmare for Canonical. An up-to-date hardware compatibility matrix would be nice, though.

sloggerkhan
March 9th, 2008, 06:34 AM
I don't think they should have their own store, but linking to ubuntu hardware retailers is a great thing to do. Currently they link to dell, let's see some links to zareason, pchdtv, and system76, too! Maybe just a special page for retailers.

Forrest Gumpp
March 9th, 2008, 06:48 AM
If you go to Herman's Illustrated Dual Boot Site, http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/ you will see this prominent message:,

" UbuntuHCL.org
That's the new Ubuntu Linux Hardware Compatibility Site. No longer do we need to risk bringing our new hardware home after a trip to the computer store with our hard-earned cash only to find that the new hardware we bought isn't usable with Linux.
Help your fellow Ubuntu users by entering details of hardware that you own that you know does work well with Ubuntu so others will know what to shop for."

These posts may also be a logical development of this project: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4411521&postcount=15
and
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4419590&postcount=16

What do you think?

madjr
March 9th, 2008, 10:21 AM
http://www.system76.com/

i like system76 pcs, but they only sell complete systems, not the peripherals (which is the biggest problem right now).

Bubba64
March 9th, 2008, 10:36 AM
There is a computer and associated electronic nonprofit recycler in my town that sells Dapper loaded computers really cheap and donates to other nonprofits and sells used recycled parts that work with Ubuntu. They also have a volunteer program where you can earn a free computer and also learn o build computers and other classes. It is Only Linux and they are quite popular. Here is a link to their website.
http://freegeek.org/

madjr
March 9th, 2008, 10:39 AM
I didn't like any of the choices in the poll. Becoming an international hardware reseller would be a nightmare for Canonical. An up-to-date hardware compatibility matrix would be nice, though.


reselling hardware is a no brainer (specially online) and hundreds of thousands run this type of business worldwide.

Actually what Canonical does right now is far beyond more complex, than what any vendor does. Canonical is unique.

They should start out with a small inventory, a handful of known to work 100% compatible peripherals and link to vendors of complete systems, like system76, Dell, etc.

we have to stop trying to support all the hardware in the world , focus on what works now and help get it to the masses.

being shy won't help, if Red-hat or Novell implemented this am sure everyone else would want to do the same (specially canonical to not stay behind). We always wait for the other's initiative... we are leaders or followers ?

every Big move by canonical has always paid off, thats why they became #1 so fast.

they won't lose nothing in trying. I think you lose Not to try.

ugm6hr
March 9th, 2008, 10:53 AM
They should start out with a small inventory, a handful of known to work 100% compatible peripherals and link to vendors of complete systems, like system76, Dell, etc.

we have to stop trying to support all the hardware in the world , focus on what works now and help get it to the masses.

If they could get hardware manufacturers on side, that would be a massive step.

A "certified Ubuntu compatible" sticker / identifier for hardware devices that are supported would be a perfect way around this. It does not require a shop, merely a promotional website listing the devices (and in which countries they are available).

But, as stated, while some manufacturers do support Linux (albeit not in a particularly public way), to get them to confirm Ubuntu compatibility would be a little trickier.

PS: Canonical already offer this for full systems: http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/hardwareprogramme
But not for individual components / peripherals / accessories.

imronak
March 9th, 2008, 07:45 PM
No.

You are talking about building a MAC.
Linux was successful because it came and adjusted on all the PCs that were there. We dont need to make a three tier OS+ Hardware War.

And, if its not working, we will make it working is the spirit I started to work with linux. :)

What my suggestion would be, instead can we do something to make the hardware vendors, add instructions and driver support for existing and new hardware.

madjr
March 9th, 2008, 08:12 PM
If they could get hardware manufacturers on side, that would be a massive step.

A "certified Ubuntu compatible" sticker / identifier for hardware devices that are supported would be a perfect way around this. It does not require a shop, merely a promotional website listing the devices (and in which countries they are available).

But, as stated, while some manufacturers do support Linux (albeit not in a particularly public way), to get them to confirm Ubuntu compatibility would be a little trickier.

PS: Canonical already offer this for full systems: http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/hardwareprogramme
But not for individual components / peripherals / accessories.

I totally agree with you. But the main problem about Linux as a hold is exactly that: "individual components / peripherals / accessories"

the worst problem is finding an official/certified/partner/whatever online shop to purchase these "individual components / peripherals / accessories" and solve my hardware problems.

I need a wifi adapter, scanner, webcam, bluetooth device, internal dial-up modem, etc that actually works... where to buy it??

if you think about it what would had been of Apple without an official store for individual components / peripherals / accessories?

i think they would had the same problems as Linux does right now. They would had to triple their support staff and am sure client sales and satisfaction would not be the same.

If you look at it, mac OS is just a BSD with a nice layout. But they are doing things right, polishing the user experience (specially distributing hardware that actually works out of the box).

We have dozens and dozens of linux/open companies and a few big ones (Red-hat, Novell, Canonical, IBM, Google, etc) focusing on the user experience from the software side, but who is working on the hardware side???

everyone is working on the virtual experience, but who is working on the physical experience?

it's really sad seeing someone purchase an Asus eeePC with linux pre-installed, but since they can't easily find and purchase "individual components / peripherals / accessories" they prefer to install win XP, since

In Japan their is no eeePC with linux, why?
because they have so many peripherals that need windows drivers....

An official shop may not solve all our hardware problems, but it will help with many. A new user won't need months of research and testing to find something compatible (i know, I've been there).

I am a linux/ubuntu fan, that's the only reason i had the guts to stick with Ubuntu for over a year, despite all my hardware problems.

Even after a year of testing and researching i still have incompatible hardware, but the worst part is i can't fix my problem because the ones that actually worked (with some kernel recompiling and stuff) are out of stock and no where to be found.... :confused:

hhhhhx
March 9th, 2008, 08:16 PM
I think that it would be best to start with a online list of known hardware, and how to install that hardware on of different distros. It could be comunity maintained, and anyone could add different hardware and instructions. i guess it coiuld be like a ubuntu HOW TO central :)

madjr
March 9th, 2008, 08:25 PM
No.

You are talking about building a MAC.
Linux was successful because it came and adjusted on all the PCs that were there. We dont need to make a three tier OS+ Hardware War.

And, if its not working, we will make it working is the spirit I started to work with linux. :)

What my suggestion would be, instead can we do something to make the hardware vendors, add instructions and driver support for existing and new hardware.

i agree your scenario would be the best and if it were possible right now we would not be speaking about these hardware issues.

don't get me wrong i don't own a mac or apple stuff. Am a pure linux fanboy

but i do give merit to apple for polishing the end user experience, even with the monopoly of windows in place.

Anyway, the hardware dominates the OS, not the other way around.

even for a geeky Linux fanboy like myself, migrating 100% to Linux is IMPOSSIBLE (imagine others) :confused:

we are not doing everything in our power...

madjr
March 9th, 2008, 08:30 PM
I think that it would be best to start with a online list of known hardware, and how to install that hardware on of different distros. It could be comunity maintained, and anyone could add different hardware and instructions. i guess it coiuld be like a ubuntu HOW TO central :)


there already is an incomplete and outdated community driven wiki online... it's been there for years now..

is very easy to follow for new users too !!! :KS
they only need to recompile their kernels if they are lucky enough to find that "out of stock" hardware that may not be manufactured anymore (this is real user exp, not sarcasm lol) :guitar:

uDanimal
March 9th, 2008, 09:10 PM
I have seen a LOT of great ideas in this thread. The official store is a great idea that would take a TON of work and planning. I also like the idea of a community driven hardware compatability database, complete with links to faithful resellers who would benefit in turn. I also would like to see "Ubuntu Certified" or even "Loved by Linux" on the box of my next peripheral. I am a poster child for having windows only hardware...ati videocard,lexmark printer, DOH. Props to the hardy developers for making my lexmark aio scanner "just work" out of the box. The ati card kinda sorta worked, but with community support here, I am back running dual head lovelyness.

Forrest Gumpp
March 9th, 2008, 10:50 PM
@madjr

Do you have a link for the wiki you refer to in post # 22?

Is it the same site that Herman refers to (UbuntuHCL.org) in his Illustrated Dual Boot Site (see my post, # 13 in this thread) as being new?

It is unlike Herman not to be in touch. This is where the text link Herman gave takes you: http://www.ubuntuhcl.org/

Tomana
March 9th, 2008, 11:30 PM
Hi,

I'm a newcomer, and would like to say a thing or two ...

"a thing or two."

ok, with that out of the way let's get down too it (not round too it,
though I do actually think I once saw a tuit - but I could be mistaken)

Now, where were we ? (can you say, "where were we" 3 times fast?)

I'll bet at least one of your tried it ... \\:D/

Regarding hardware for Ubuntu (and Linux in general) a store would
"be nice I suppose. That way, if someone needsa TV card (which I
do) I could at least come here and see what's compatible. I can
search the threads now but it takes much time to get a hit sometimes.

If you price hardware to be the same as Newegg.com I'd even buy
it here - otherwise most folks would take the info elsewhere.
Then again ...
for some, time is most valuable so they will buy on the spot
regardless the price.

madjr
March 10th, 2008, 07:31 PM
Hi,

I'm a newcomer, and would like to say a thing or two ...

"a thing or two."

ok, with that out of the way let's get down too it (not round too it,
though I do actually think I once saw a tuit - but I could be mistaken)

Now, where were we ? (can you say, "where were we" 3 times fast?)

I'll bet at least one of your tried it ... \\:D/

Regarding hardware for Ubuntu (and Linux in general) a store would
"be nice I suppose. That way, if someone needsa TV card (which I
do) I could at least come here and see what's compatible. I can
search the threads now but it takes much time to get a hit sometimes.

If you price hardware to be the same as Newegg.com I'd even buy
it here - otherwise most folks would take the info elsewhere.
Then again ...
for some, time is most valuable so they will buy on the spot
regardless the price.


i would buy off canonical even if they sold a little more expensive, not only for the convenience and guarantee hardware to work but i know my funds will help with ubuntu dev

edm1
March 10th, 2008, 07:40 PM
I may be wrong but i dont think anyone has even mentioned the official verified hardware site (http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/).

EnergySamus
March 10th, 2008, 08:06 PM
It would be nice to have a Ubuntu store. All systems come with DVD playback!!!

EnergySamus

ugm6hr
March 10th, 2008, 08:37 PM
I may be wrong but i dont think anyone has even mentioned the official verified hardware site (http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/).

The problem is that this only applies to full systems. Hardware problems mainly stem from accessories / peripherals / components.

madjr
March 12th, 2008, 09:01 PM
The problem is that this only applies to full systems. Hardware problems mainly stem from accessories / peripherals / components.


yes, everywhere you look there is windows compatible peripherals.

but we need at least 1 place in the world for Ubuntu. Canonical or a partner needs to take the initiative...

once you take the first step others will follow.

intense.ego
March 12th, 2008, 09:35 PM
The thing is, most people would rather have the hardware define the OS rather than the other way around. i.e. buy a laptop and use the best OS that works on it rather than choosing an OS and buying a laptop to accomadate that.

madjr
March 13th, 2008, 01:14 AM
The thing is, most people would rather have the hardware define the OS rather than the other way around. i.e. buy a laptop and use the best OS that works on it rather than choosing an OS and buying a laptop to accomadate that.

sure that is true and there are full laptops with ubuntu from dell, system76, etc.

but the problem are the peripherals and not one pc hardware store has a linux compatible section.

people buy all windows compatible stuff and "hope/pray" it will work with ubuntu, most of the time it won't or you need to recompile serious stuff ...

This is why 1 has to be created, be it a partner or canonical themselves if they really want to solve the no1 Ubuntu/linux problem.

gn2
March 13th, 2008, 02:22 AM
I'm guessing that a PC from the Debian Shop will be fine with Ubuntu?

http://www.debianshop.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6

Or Tesco:
http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-3224.aspx
http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-6129.aspx

madjr
March 13th, 2008, 03:17 AM
I'm guessing that a PC from the Debian Shop will be fine with Ubuntu?

http://www.debianshop.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6

Or Tesco:
http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-3224.aspx
http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-6129.aspx

yes these will work fine. It's not hard to build a working pc, laptops are harder, sometimes getting videocard drivers to work and add-on devices.

too bad the debian shop doesn't include peripherals which is what needs to be done

madjr
March 14th, 2008, 08:47 AM
i like the look of these ideas also:

"Ubuntu Hardware Compatibility Tester program"
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/4444/
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/item/3499/


could also suggest compatible hardware alternatives and probably where to purchase them, but this is why we also need a store...

kragen
March 15th, 2008, 01:33 AM
Why does it need to be a store? I fully agree that an easier to read list of hardware which works well under Ubuntu is definitely needed, but selling it seems kind of pointless.

Omnios
March 15th, 2008, 02:04 AM
Why does it need to be a store? I fully agree that an easier to read list of hardware which works well under Ubuntu is definitely needed, but selling it seems kind of pointless.

Not nessasarily. K normal day to day stuff a list is good. And generally they could look at your system parts and go shopping.

Now here are some strengths to this. Odd ball stuff. Generally speaking say things like a low cost enty level AMD turion laptop. K that is not all that odd but there is more to this. Generally you can get a really good price on them but how about a linux based amd turion mobile with a half decent video card such as a entry level 128 or 286megs. Generally laptops with 256megs shoot way up on this point.

AMD spider packages with such tweeks as multi desk stations say for office etc. You could set up a lot of work stations with that type of power and these things can have so many entry level grpahics cards its not funny.

There are lots of possiblilities but looking for open pastures may work better than butting heads with the giants.

Basicly If I could have gotten a amd turrion 64 laptop that was upgradable and had good entry level video options at a good price I probably would have bought one.

Now as to AMD im not a amd follower but there value campain kind of fits the linix open source pretty well. This can also be done for intel but it might have problems with butting heads.

I was originally looking at the turions for a laptop but did not find one with the video options I wanted.

DeadSuperHero
March 15th, 2008, 02:07 AM
If there was an official Ubuntu store, where they sold Dells, System76's, compatible hardware, that Free software laptop that Mark Shuttleworth designed, and Ubuntu Mobile devices, I would soooo work there.
Oh yeah, and shop there.

madjr
March 15th, 2008, 02:52 AM
Why does it need to be a store? I fully agree that an easier to read list of hardware which works well under Ubuntu is definitely needed, but selling it seems kind of pointless.

if it's pointless then let me know where to buy a compatible usb wifi adapter, an internal 56k modem and a standalone scanner (these are just a few of the actual things i need now)

i want to know where to buy these a store, please point me out a place.

researching for compatible hardware and finding where to buy it can be an incredible long task that most won't want to take...

this is exactly why ubuntu got the lowest score vs win and mac
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=724238

aysiu
March 15th, 2008, 02:57 AM
Why does it need to be a store? I fully agree that an easier to read list of hardware which works well under Ubuntu is definitely needed, but selling it seems kind of pointless.
Because a store facilitates the process, and if Ubuntu or Canonical is behind the store, you have more of a guarantee the hardware will work well with Ubuntu.

It's the same reason Apple can get away with overpricing their sticks of RAM. People don't want to do research to see what is most compatible with their Apple computers. If they buy peripherals from Apple, they know the peripherals will work well. My wife bought her Mac RAM from Newegg for much cheaper, but she's not your typical Apple customer.

bobbybobington
March 15th, 2008, 04:04 AM
Canonical selling hardware is silly, they are in no position to get into that game. Isn't hardware compatibility and support what dell and system 76 etc... are all about? If anything, canonical and these hardware makers just have to communicate better with each other so each can do their respective roles of making a great computing platform better.

gn2
March 15th, 2008, 11:19 AM
Because a store facilitates the process, and if Ubuntu or Canonical is behind the store, you have more of a guarantee the hardware will work well with Ubuntu.

It's the same reason Apple can get away with overpricing their sticks of RAM

I agree that people will pay a premium for the Apple brand because it is stylish and unique.

If Canonical opened a chain of trendy Ubuntu stores in capital cities seling stylish chic (and cheaper than Apple) hardware and accompanied it with a massive advertising campaign then the Ubuntu brand might take off.

Then again it might not.

It would be a lot of money to lay out and the chances of failure would be very high.

And marketing hardware isn't really what ubuntu is about.

Omnios
March 15th, 2008, 05:16 PM
I agree that people will pay a premium for the Apple brand because it is stylish and unique.

If Canonical opened a chain of trendy Ubuntu stores in capital cities seling stylish chic (and cheaper than Apple) hardware and accompanied it with a massive advertising campaign then the Ubuntu brand might take off.

Then again it might not.

It would be a lot of money to lay out and the chances of failure would be very high.

And marketing hardware isn't really what ubuntu is about.

One of the problems with this is how much money and resources you have to put into this and how much you get out for your work. A bad margin will make a buisiness walk away from this.

PurposeOfReason
March 15th, 2008, 05:22 PM
While I'm the minority here, I believe it should be up to the person installing Ubuntu to know. There is always an added benefit of knowing what is going on and why. Many will argue that computers are supposed to do that for you, that they should "just work". I, on the other hand, believe that you should know your computer better than your computer knows you. Ubuntu makes stuff work "out of the box", which is good in many regards; however, it then leaves users more clueless if and when something goes wrong.

Oh, also about the Ubuntu and upstream thread, this is a perfect example. It shouldn't be an Ubuntu hardware store but a linux hardware store.


EDIT - I also have put linux on three laptops and a custom built computer. With the desktop I built, twenty minutes of research brought a perfectly functioning machine. Both laptops work(ed) at least 95% and they were and are Sony Vaios which are often linux nightmares. It's more that users should be educated. My current one is 100% (a sony vaio sz) minus the fingerprint scanner. Thanks sony for closing that up. :)

Omnios
March 15th, 2008, 08:06 PM
Another thing about store based sales as I remember with win 98 that MS really didnt offer support but rather the stores selling the computers. Generally speaking this may prove difficult as say a update broke someting you phone might be running off the hook. I know one store keeper that got hosed because of ME and is still selling boxes with XP till Vista releases its first service pack.

YourSurrogateGod
March 15th, 2008, 08:18 PM
http://www.system76.com/

No, just no. I bought a laptop from them (on which I'm typing this message) and it's a piece of crap for the money that I paid for it. It would have been easier to buy an HP (with which I tend to have very good luck) and then install Ubuntu on it.

I can't say the same thing about Dell though.

ugm6hr
March 15th, 2008, 08:19 PM
Oh, also about the Ubuntu and upstream thread, this is a perfect example. It shouldn't be an Ubuntu hardware store but a linux hardware store.

While I understand the sentiment, I don't think that a Linux and an Ubuntu store would be the same thing.

I think the OP was suggesting a branding exercise to market Ubuntu.

And not all Linux compatible stuff works flawlessly in Ubuntu (I think RT wifi chipsets are a good example).

What is being suggested is a shop that sells peripherals and hardware that works flawlessly with Ubuntu.

Of course, a Linux store could certify compatibility with Ubuntu, but would have their hands busy testing all their stock on a variety of distros.

madjr
March 15th, 2008, 10:07 PM
One of the problems with this is how much money and resources you have to put into this and how much you get out for your work. A bad margin will make a buisiness walk away from this.

complete PCs, barebones PCs, servers, home servers, media PCs , UMPCs with ubuntu and a good list of peripherals working out of the box...

Canonical would have a direct relationship with hardware manufacturers and even humanitarian groups like OLPC ...


also it's a good source of extra funds for ubuntu development (users can directly give funds back, instead to other hardware vendors who don't do nothing for linux development)

with PC sales and linux on the rise...

WORLDWIDE PC shipments are set to grow by 12.8 percent in 2008 to reach 302 million units, according to IDC's Worldwide Quarterly PC Tracker. Growth will continue at above 11 percent in 2009 followed by high single-digit growth through 2012, boosting annual shipments to over 426 million in 2012.
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/03/14/pc-shipments-rise-320m

lyceum
March 15th, 2008, 11:43 PM
To be honest, I would spend more time at this store seeing what worked that buying stuff. Then I would know what I could shop for and try to get it cheaper where ever i could. (sorry, just being honest)

:biggrin:

eragon100
March 15th, 2008, 11:47 PM
Other: My pc came with windows xp, and had a vista capable logo. Vista ultimate didn't even install. Ubuntu took 30 minutes to install, and download and install all the updates, and video card drivers :) Everything worked right out of the box, even my two different usb sticks and 2 mp3 players. :)

popch
March 15th, 2008, 11:48 PM
To be honest, I would spend more time at this store seeing what worked that buying stuff. Then I would know what I could shop for and try to get it cheaper where ever i could. (sorry, just being honest)

That would be an excellent way of forcing that shop to close presently.

ugm6hr
March 16th, 2008, 12:02 AM
To be honest, I would spend more time at this store seeing what worked that buying stuff. Then I would know what I could shop for and try to get it cheaper where ever i could. (sorry, just being honest)

:biggrin:

I suspect that Linux (and probably also Ubuntu) users fall into 2 categories:

1. IT savvy users
2. GNU idealists

The former will probably do their research (as they probably do at present), which will include looking at the stock from a "Ubuntu" shop, and then buy their hardware from wherever it is cheapest.

The latter will probably support the shop with their money, assuming that the shop is officially affiliated with the Ubuntu project.

I don't see anything wrong with either approach.

But I agree that too many users in the former group, and not enough in the latter will mean the shop will not be in business long.

Unfortunately, I suspect a poll on "Would you buy stuff from an Ubuntu store if it wasn't the cheapest vendor?" would probably confirm my suspicion that this would not be a good business proposition....

The current Ubuntu certified systems / hardware partners predominantly manufacture their own hardware (which tend to be complete systems), so this is less of an issue for them.

popch
March 16th, 2008, 12:11 AM
...
The former will probably do their research (as they probably do at present), which will include looking at the stock from a "Ubuntu" shop, and then buy their hardware from wherever it is cheapest.

(...)

I don't see anything wrong with either approach.

I do see something wrong with the first approach. Looking at the stock in an Ubuntu or Linux store is not 'doing research'. It is letting others do the research for you.

If the shop does anything more than just buy and sell boxes which are 'reputed to work' with Linux, it will incur more overhead than one which does not.

If I decide to buy a book after having browsed through it in a bookshop, I will buy it there and not in a place which saved the cost of stocking it. If I need advice before purchasing a product, I will buy where I got the advice. Anything else is unfair.

Afterthought: TANSTAFL

madjr
March 16th, 2008, 12:51 AM
I suspect that Linux (and probably also Ubuntu) users fall into 2 categories:

1. IT savvy users
2. GNU idealists

The former will probably do their research (as they probably do at present), which will include looking at the stock from a "Ubuntu" shop, and then buy their hardware from wherever it is cheapest.

The latter will probably support the shop with their money, assuming that the shop is officially affiliated with the Ubuntu project.

I don't see anything wrong with either approach.

But I agree that too many users in the former group, and not enough in the latter will mean the shop will not be in business long.

Unfortunately, I suspect a poll on "Would you buy stuff from an Ubuntu store if it wasn't the cheapest vendor?" would probably confirm my suspicion that this would not be a good business proposition....

The current Ubuntu certified systems / hardware partners predominantly manufacture their own hardware (which tend to be complete systems), so this is less of an issue for them.

the store is not targeted to either
1. IT savvy users
2. GNU idealists

the store is targeted for the new user migrating to ubuntu.

it's something similar to mac store but online.

stuff that works with ubuntu at competitive prices.

anyway to show your support to ubuntu GNU idealists will also agree to shop there, probably even more than most.


why give your money to a hardware vendor that doesn't care about the future of ubuntu when these funds could go directly to canonical.

whatever helps ubuntu i would support.

popch
March 16th, 2008, 08:34 AM
the store is not targeted to either
1. IT savvy users
2. GNU idealists

the store is targeted for the new user migrating to ubuntu..

I am IT savvy, and I would buy at such a store even at a somewhat higher markup. I feel that it is well worth being able to buy any hardware without going through the hassle of researching uncertain and ambiguous sources and comparing the results with product specs as published by the manufacturer or seller. I value my time highly.

Also, let's not forget the new user migrating from no PC to one PC. For the coming decade or two there still is an appreciable number of those people. The alternatives for such people could consist of buying one of two PCs at roughly the same price, one coming with Linux and some support and the other coming with Windows and no support or support at extra cost.

ugm6hr
March 16th, 2008, 10:30 AM
Also, let's not forget the new user migrating from no PC to one PC. For the coming decade or two there still is an appreciable number of those people. The alternatives for such people could consist of buying one of two PCs at roughly the same price, one coming with Linux and some support and the other coming with Windows and no support or support at extra cost.

Indeed, I had not counted on this contingent of users. It does seem that there are a number of users who have not migrated from Windows on these forums, and they would likely be drawn to such a store.

Off course - support is the thing that is worth paying extra for (if you need it).

The difference with an Apple store is that they don't really offer more support than anywhere else, merely brand recognition.

popch
March 16th, 2008, 10:35 AM
The difference with an Apple store is that they don't really offer more support than anywhere else, merely brand recognition.

That, in turn, is consistent with the image this brand associates itself with: It Just Works, It's Intuitive, Anyone And His Grandmother Just Know How To Use It.

Offering support would be counter-productive to the brand's image.

lyceum
March 16th, 2008, 04:48 PM
I suspect that Linux (and probably also Ubuntu) users fall into 2 categories:

1. IT savvy users
2. GNU idealists

The former will probably do their research (as they probably do at present), which will include looking at the stock from a "Ubuntu" shop, and then buy their hardware from wherever it is cheapest.

The latter will probably support the shop with their money, assuming that the shop is officially affiliated with the Ubuntu project.

I don't see anything wrong with either approach.

But I agree that too many users in the former group, and not enough in the latter will mean the shop will not be in business long.

Unfortunately, I suspect a poll on "Would you buy stuff from an Ubuntu store if it wasn't the cheapest vendor?" would probably confirm my suspicion that this would not be a good business proposition....

The current Ubuntu certified systems / hardware partners predominantly manufacture their own hardware (which tend to be complete systems), so this is less of an issue for them.

As far as the shop goes, I would have to agree. I know a good number of non-tech people that use Ubuntu because I put it on their PCs when Windows shut off their illegal copies. These people would also not shop there, they would just ask a friend. Really, a good wiki is all that is needed, but if a store sold all parts at a fair price and just put a penguin on the ones that worked with Linux and an Ubuntu logo on the ones that worked with Ubuntu (an "R" for restricted driver would be good too) they could just sell to everyone and that would be better business. IMHO