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View Full Version : Tomorrow, will we be part of what we are against now?



revanthedarth
March 7th, 2008, 09:01 PM
Title talks for itself. I'll give an example:

I'm now supporting free software. But when i become an engineer, could i refuse if Microsoft offers me a job? Better life standart, more money, and anti-freedom. Would i refuse? I don't know... What would you do, and why? (Please refuse and tell me why, i know i should refuse, but i don't know if i can :) )

perce
March 7th, 2008, 09:06 PM
You shouldn't refuse. Engineers at Microsoft do a perfectly legitimate job, blame should be put only on the management.

sillyxone
March 7th, 2008, 10:52 PM
I would refuse.

A wise knight would choose the right King to serve. Beside, I'd rather be a star in a small group where I can freely decide which way to go, rather than being a little dot in a huge corporation where my ideas would have to climb through endless layers to be heard.

It's all up to you, only you know yourself and your situation best. I changed my job a few times, now I'm at a University. Although the salary is not high, the benefit is good and my colleagues are wonderful, willing to innovate and try out new technology. It's the working environment that will either inspire or depress you.

Virtue without talent can hardly do anything.
Talent without virtue is just useless.

Snakob808
March 7th, 2008, 10:55 PM
If it was the best offer, I would take it. I learned long ago that one's job does not define one's self.

Joeb454
March 7th, 2008, 10:59 PM
I'm pretty sure they frown on Linux use over in Redmond...but no I wouldn't refuse the job.

I may have to dual boot the PC with Ubuntu though :D

~LoKe
March 7th, 2008, 11:08 PM
I may have a problem with their business practice, but most of their software is decent or acceptable. I would certainly accept a job if they offered one, and the other aspects were up to par.

It's easier to make a change from the inside than it is from the out.

toupeiro
March 7th, 2008, 11:33 PM
If I were a programmer/engineer looking for work with a personal advocation for Open Source and Microsoft offered me a job, I would take it.

There is no reason you cannot do both types of development, so long as you abide by Intellectual Property Guidelines in what you implement into your Open Source work.

perce
March 7th, 2008, 11:40 PM
I'm pretty sure they frown on Linux use over in Redmond...

Not necessarily: I went to a talk of a guy working at Microsoft's research station Q, and to my surprise he gave a presentation with a Macbook Pro.

Daveski
March 7th, 2008, 11:51 PM
If I were a programmer/engineer looking for work with a personal advocation for Open Source and Microsoft offered me a job, I would take it.

There is no reason you cannot do both types of development, so long as you abide by Intellectual Property Guidelines in what you implement into your Open Source work.

I would read your contract VERY carefully though. I have certainly been in jobs where the Company has a right to claim any work that I did in my own time as their own (so long as it was vaguely related to any of their businesses).

jrusso2
March 7th, 2008, 11:57 PM
I work on Netware and Windows servers. At home I use Linux. This is a speration between my work and my personal beliefs.

If I was offered a good job at Microsoft I would not refuse it but I would maybe use the opportunity to provide some influence where I could

justin whitaker
March 8th, 2008, 12:17 AM
I'm pretty sure they frown on Linux use over in Redmond...but no I wouldn't refuse the job.

I may have to dual boot the PC with Ubuntu though :D

They actually have Linux and OSX teams in Redmond to see what other software companies are doing, and to help put something other than rhetoric around promoting "interoperability."

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060117-5998.html

If Microsoft comes calling, I'm moving to Redmond.

azimuth
March 8th, 2008, 02:33 AM
Defining yourself by what you are for, rather than by what you are against, will allow for your continued advocacy without limiting your possibilities for employment. It has to do with the positive attitude for which employers are looking.
Be forewarned, employment contracts with tech companies may have some very restrictive clauses. The last large company I worked for, had legal claim to any inventions or intellectual property I developed, for 2 years after I left them in 1970. When offered a good job, it's easy to miss the fine print.

az
March 8th, 2008, 03:13 AM
I'm now supporting free software. But when i become an engineer, could i refuse if Microsoft offers me a job? Better life standart, more money, and anti-freedom. Would i refuse? I don't know...

Nine out of ten people who work in software development *don't* work for a proprietary software project. Proprietary software development does not represent the majority of jobs in software. It's very unlikely that a job working for a proprietary company will pay you more money.

Unless you are a lawyer. Lawyers make more money from software IP than software developers.


Proprietary packaged software firms account for well below 10% of employment of
software developers in the U.S., and “IT user” firms account for over 70% of software
developers employed with a similar salary (and thus skill) level. This suggests a relatively
low potential for cannibalisation of proprietary software jobs by FLOSS, and suggests a
relatively high potential for software developer jobs to become increasingly FLOSS-
related. FLOSS and proprietary software show a ratio of 30:70 (overlapping) in recent job
postings indicating significant demand for FLOSS-related skills.

Study on the:
Economic impact of open source software
on innovation and the competitiveness of the
Information and Communication Technologies
(ICT) sector in the EU
Final report
Prepared on November 20, 2006
ec.europa.eu/enterprise/ict/policy/doc/2006-11-20-flossimpact.pdf

On a side note, I find it so funny when people argue vehemently for the virtues of proprietary software, claiming that they don't want to give away the code that they wrote. Do you think any developer working for Apple or Microsoft gets to "own" any of the code they write in a day's work?

Whether you get paid to write code for a free project or get paid to write code for a proprietary product, you still get paid for your day's work.

myddewji13
March 8th, 2008, 03:18 AM
man...join....(read the contracts every letter)...than if you can do us all a favour and help port office 07 other popular apps over... (im assuming u get to see stuff the rest of cant... :D

sillyxone
March 8th, 2008, 04:55 AM
oh, just in case you do want to refuse, don't refuse until they give you the offer in paper. It will be the certificate of your value to find a more suitable job.

phrostbyte
March 8th, 2008, 05:10 AM
I don't think Microsoft is a good environment for someone to work for who is a Linux enthusiast. It's not a bad job and the people are nice, but you won't get much satisfaction from your job.

UBUSNAFU
March 8th, 2008, 05:32 AM
It is a job and a step further in your career. A very big step that will prepare you for the rest of your career. Linux is an operating system and Ubuntu is just one of many flavours. If anything you will get paid to learn how things should not be done but if you listen to some you will need the money to pay for the shrink.

gashcr
March 8th, 2008, 06:23 AM
I actually was offered a job as a sales executive for microsoft here in my country. I couldn't lie in the interviews and I had to admit my liking for FOSS. Actually, that wasn't good, so far I didn't get the job, as they obviously wanted me to support 100% the idea that Microsoft products were the best for every single situation I could find... It's sad to lose a job just because of what you think or believe in... but in the end, it feels so good to know you had the courage to defend your cause, even when you are in a situation when lying or keeping your mouth shout could have granted you greater economical benefits... no my friend... Money is important, but it's not worth my integrity.

sillyxone
March 11th, 2008, 01:04 PM
here is a story from open-source minded guys within MS:
http://www.linux.com/feature/128238


"Steve and I have always been very passionate about open source," says Fulkerson, "and that's difficult inside Microsoft. Mostly, they just don't understand it."