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miggols99
March 7th, 2008, 05:46 PM
Yesterday I reinstalled Windows XP because it was getting too slow. Obviously, I backed up all of the files before I did this. My sister was complaining saying "There's no Windows Media Player!!!". I have no idea why people actually want to use software like that, but I installed Songbird hoping she would use it and like it, since it looks a lot like iTunes. She didn't have much of a look at it and said "I don't want to 'adapt' to the programs you install on here!" I asked her to try it but she refused. Then she went and said "I want to choose what to use not use what you put on here!". That made me think that Linux gives you choice. Lets you install whatever you want. But she hates Linux for some reason and said "Everyone uses Windows so why should I use Linux?". I think that Linux would be great for her, except that Paint Shop Pro doesn't run on Wine and setting up a VM would be a bit drastic. Maybe if I made Linux look like Windows maybe she would like it? What do you think? Do you think Linux would be good for her? It would also mean I wouldn't have to keep reinstalling Windows XP...:)

By the way, WMP is included in Windows XP, but I disabled it to try and make her use Songbird..but it failed :(

Dr Small
March 7th, 2008, 05:48 PM
Refuse to install Windows, and curiosity will evetually kill her :)

Mazza558
March 7th, 2008, 05:52 PM
A lost cause... don't bother. Tell her, if she hates using Linux, to stop using Google and 70% of the web. :)

eldragon
March 7th, 2008, 05:52 PM
just solve it the hard way.

give her the computer with a plain blank hard drive and tell her to do whatever she pleases. if she needs your advice to install an Operating system, tell her you can only do it your way, and tell her its gonna be your way or the highway.

that worked for me. now everyone uses pidgin, gimp and rhythmbox.

that kind of attitude towards family members shouldnt be allowed.
(hers towards you)

aysiu
March 7th, 2008, 06:08 PM
Let her use what she wants, but as Dr Small and eldragon have suggested, don't help her. If she likes Windows and thinks it's easy to use, she can install it herself.

Het Irv
March 7th, 2008, 06:13 PM
Don't force her to do anything, help a little, but show off Linux until she
a) wants it
b) smashes your face in

Forceing someone to do something will most of the time backfire.

forestpixie
March 7th, 2008, 06:23 PM
If she likes Windows and thinks it's easy to use, she can install it herself.

and all of the things she uses but aren't actually installed with windows - which would leave a pretty empty program menu :D

forrestcupp
March 7th, 2008, 06:24 PM
I agree with the "don't force it on her" people. If she likes Windows, it's really not that big of a deal if she uses it. And that was pretty sneaky and dishonest to disable WMP to try to force her to use Songbird.

But if someone complained about my voluntary help, I would stop helping them.

funrider
March 7th, 2008, 06:32 PM
after helping my gf sister reinstalling windoze and craps for couple of times and got no "thanks" at all, i stop offering free help.

my gf said i am mean, well, i dun give a f no more

MONODA
March 7th, 2008, 06:33 PM
ok ill give you two solutions:
number one:
you could ask her just to try it out on a live cd, if she does not accept then you could try to lure her in by showing her some really awesome stuff that you can do with ubuntu.
second solution (this one is more evil :P):
you could have HER install xp. then while she not looking you could junk it up with viruses so next time she uses it it would barely work. jk dont do this its too evil :P

miggols99
March 7th, 2008, 06:34 PM
Hmm well I think I'll just leave the Windows XP installation alone then. I won't help with installing stuff becuase she gets annoyed. Maybe I can show off Compiz Fusion to her as she really likes fiddling around with it :)

I'm not sure why she hates Linux, I mean all she really does on there is make stuff on Paint Shop Pro, use the internet and word processing. If she doesn't like OpenOffice or Koffice (version 2 is looking great!) I could install Microsoft Office on Wine to help the transition. Maybe when the new Krita is released she will want to use it :)

sanderella
March 7th, 2008, 06:36 PM
Yesterday I reinstalled Windows XP because it was getting too slow. Obviously, I backed up all of the files before I did this. My sister was complaining saying "There's no Windows Media Player!!!". I have no idea why people actually want to use software like that, but I installed Songbird hoping she would use it and like it, since it looks a lot like iTunes. She didn't have much of a look at it and said "I don't want to 'adapt' to the programs you install on here!" I asked her to try it but she refused. Then she went and said "I want to choose what to use not use what you put on here!". That made me think that Linux gives you choice. Lets you install whatever you want. But she hates Linux for some reason and said "Everyone uses Windows so why should I use Linux?". I think that Linux would be great for her, except that Paint Shop Pro doesn't run on Wine and setting up a VM would be a bit drastic. Maybe if I made Linux look like Windows maybe she would like it? What do you think? Do you think Linux would be good for her? It would also mean I wouldn't have to keep reinstalling Windows XP...:)

By the way, WMP is included in Windows XP, but I disabled it to try and make her use Songbird..but it failed :(

Whose computer is it? :KS

hyperair
March 7th, 2008, 06:38 PM
Honestly.. you speak about choice, but you seem to know nuts about it yourself. Linux allows you to choose what to run on your system, that is correct. But when you force Linux onto someone you are denying them their right to choose. You're imposing it onto them, similar to what you did with Songbird and failed. You wouldn't like it if someone cut you off from Linux and made you run Windows only right? Or perhaps forced you to use some other media player other than Songbird which you like so much?

As a brother who probably acts as the technician for your family, you should actually consider what your sister wants. If she wants Windows, give her Windows. If she's willing to try Linux, then let her try Linux. The alternative as mentioned above: you just give her a blank computer and tell her to do whatever she wants with it. She just goes to some computer technician, pays a sum of money, gets a tonne of bloatware in the Windows installation.

Please grow up and learn to take others into consideration before doing something like this. This post may not be what you're looking for, but it should provide food for thought, and I just needed to say this after reading this thread.


p.s. I don't mean to flame or anything, so I'm sorry if this post seemed offensive.

Ripfox
March 7th, 2008, 06:38 PM
It's in your best interest to just let her use XP. It's a pretty good OS you know. :neutral:

Dr Small
March 7th, 2008, 06:44 PM
It's in your best interest to just let her use XP. It's a pretty good OS you know. :neutral:
I find that it chooses a horrible filesystem and freezes at random times.
It also randomly gives my sister the BSOD, and so now she uses Ubuntu..

dasunst3r
March 7th, 2008, 06:53 PM
I'd agree on the replies asking you to let her use what she wants to use and make her learn her lesson in roundabout ways like:

When she wants to buy an Apple, say "But everyone uses Windows. Why would you want to use OSX?"
Make her use all legal software.
If you have your own computer, rub it in her face when she complains that she can't do 'x'


P.S. Here's the AppDB entry for Paint Shop Pro: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=2505

miggols99
March 7th, 2008, 06:57 PM
I'd agree on the replies asking you to let her use what she wants to use and make her learn her lesson in roundabout ways like:

When she wants to buy an Apple, say "But everyone uses Windows. Why would you want to use OSX?"
Make her use all legal software.
If you have your own computer, rub it in her face when she complains that she can't do 'x'


P.S. Here's the AppDB entry for Paint Shop Pro: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=2505
Those are some good points! I will use them :)

By the way, this is the family computer, so I got everyone's permission of reinstalling XP.

ice60
March 7th, 2008, 07:02 PM
i'm not sure why you keep saying you don't know why she doesn't like linux, i'm sure it's because you use it lol. there's no way i would have used linux if my sister was telling me to use it when i was younger. maybe if you got her BF using it she might want to try it :D

50words
March 7th, 2008, 07:02 PM
Be nice to your sister. If she wants to run Windows, set her up with SpyBot and AVG and show her how to run a check for spyware every other week or so (given what I assume are the sites she likes to visit).

Tell her it is the last time you will fix her Windows install, and that she is on her own from now on unless she wants to try Ubuntu, which will do everything she wants to do.

While I absolutely support software freedom, that includes her right to run Windows if she likes it better, whether or not she has a reason you think is valid.

Linux is not really better or worse than any other OS. It is different. For some--me included--the differences make it preferable to Windows. Maybe even "better." For others, the differences make it worse. That's her call, not yours.

rickyjones
March 7th, 2008, 07:04 PM
So you were trying to help out your sister by disabling WMP and forcing her to use Songbird.

Dude, that kind of an attitude will get your *** kicked some day. No offense.

If she wants to choose something then let her do that. What you did is exactly what a lot of Linux users scream about in regard to Microsoft - that Microsoft forces you to use a product - well you just did exactly what Microsoft gets nailed to the cross over.

Stories like this make me ashamed to use Linux. We advocate choice, but only if it is a choice that we approve... nice mantra to live by.

-Richard

miggols99
March 7th, 2008, 07:09 PM
So you were trying to help out your sister by disabling WMP and forcing her to use Songbird.

Dude, that kind of an attitude will get your *** kicked some day. No offense.

If she wants to choose something then let her do that. What you did is exactly what a lot of Linux users scream about in regard to Microsoft - that Microsoft forces you to use a product - well you just did exactly what Microsoft gets nailed to the cross over.

Stories like this make me ashamed to use Linux. We advocate choice, but only if it is a choice that we approve... nice mantra to live by.

-Richard
I kind of regret doing that now. Maybe when she sees my Amarok 2 on my laptop she'll want it :D. Soon it will be available on Windows, so if she ever does want to change to Linux, she'll have a familiar music player.

FranMichaels
March 7th, 2008, 07:45 PM
My sister loves Linux now. Before she used to call it "Linsux"

Basically on her old Dell B130 (more than a year back), I had permission to install a dual-boot (it's relatively easy to point out benefits of Linux, and not hard to point out MS and its backdoor ways...)

So I make an effort and even clean up the Windows install (through the Remove thingy. I put Ubuntu Edgy I think at the time... I get complaints that Windows crashes all the time, and asked "Did you do something to it?" The answer is no, and there is no install disc provided with the laptop. So I just remove it, install Ubuntu what she needs from Synaptic.

So she used the browser, had flash installed, showed how to rip and burn CDs... She figured out the rest.

So just 3 months ago we picked up a Dell Laptop with Ubuntu, with dual core and all those goodies. I mentioned to her (since she used to like photoshop) that photoshop runs in wine, "want it installed ?". I got a resounding "No!". Someone got used to the GIMP :KS.

The only issue she has is with Sibellius under Wine, it mostly works (enough for composing) but the playback is off (don't know if it's wine or timidity to blame, wrong instruments.) So I set up VM with XP using KVM and she runs it there fine.

The major barrier besides "change" itself, is getting an app that person needs to work, to work.

My advice is highlight the benefits, feel free to point out some Windows maintenance needs or DRM (some people are upset when they find out Windows has things like that...) and make sure you are full time user. more "inspiring".

Either way, switched my whole family to Ubuntu. Wine has taken care of loose ends. I really look forward to a "1.0" release.

My mom is the only one that hasn't asked for help for Ubuntu specifically. I helped her setup a gmail account (which is pretty much the same on any OS anyway...) and that's it. She clicked the update thing on her own, and has been using it on her own for 2 months.

Sorry for the long post, but take home message is that some people who hate Linux, may actually appreciate it if they get a chance to use it. Show off a livecd, answer all your girlfriends questions. See where it goes.

EnergySamus
March 7th, 2008, 07:52 PM
It sounds like your sister is between 6-11 years old... Put her in her room:lolflag: and tell her that she can't come out until she can accept the fact that Linux is better.
I dual-boot Vista and Ubuntu, but I hate windows more every day that I use it.... If Half Life 2 worked on Ubuntu, sigh.

EnergySamus

Martje_001
March 7th, 2008, 07:53 PM
Blank her hard drive and give her 3 discs:
1. Backup
2. Windows XP
3. Ubuntu

She'll use Ubuntu after a while ;)

ahaslam
March 7th, 2008, 08:04 PM
If Half Life 2 worked on Ubuntu, sigh.
It does & quite well too. Check the Wine AppDB.
OP, sorry for straying OT ;)

miggols99
March 7th, 2008, 08:14 PM
My sister loves Linux now. Before she used to call it "Linsux"

Basically on her old Dell B130 (more than a year back), I had permission to install a dual-boot (it's relatively easy to point out benefits of Linux, and not hard to point out MS and its backdoor ways...)

So I make an effort and even clean up the Windows install (through the Remove thingy. I put Ubuntu Edgy I think at the time... I get complaints that Windows crashes all the time, and asked "Did you do something to it?" The answer is no, and there is no install disc provided with the laptop. So I just remove it, install Ubuntu what she needs from Synaptic.

So she used the browser, had flash installed, showed how to rip and burn CDs... She figured out the rest.

So just 3 months ago we picked up a Dell Laptop with Ubuntu, with dual core and all those goodies. I mentioned to her (since she used to like photoshop) that photoshop runs in wine, "want it installed ?". I got a resounding "No!". Someone got used to the GIMP :KS.

The only issue she has is with Sibellius under Wine, it mostly works (enough for composing) but the playback is off (don't know if it's wine or timidity to blame, wrong instruments.) So I set up VM with XP using KVM and she runs it there fine.

The major barrier besides "change" itself, is getting an app that person needs to work, to work.

My advice is highlight the benefits, feel free to point out some Windows maintenance needs or DRM (some people are upset when they find out Windows has things like that...) and make sure you are full time user. more "inspiring".

Either way, switched my whole family to Ubuntu. Wine has taken care of loose ends. I really look forward to a "1.0" release.

My mom is the only one that hasn't asked for help for Ubuntu specifically. I helped her setup a gmail account (which is pretty much the same on any OS anyway...) and that's it. She clicked the update thing on her own, and has been using it on her own for 2 months.

Sorry for the long post, but take home message is that some people who hate Linux, may actually appreciate it if they get a chance to use it. Show off a livecd, answer all your girlfriends questions. See where it goes.
Thank you for that :) She has mentioned that some of her music won't work on her phone and her MP3 player. I explained to her that it was DRM, and that she should look somewhere else for music. She went the illegal route :( Hopefully I can convince her to use Amazon when they get their music service for the UK. My parents always say "I don't care what it looks like I just want it to work" so they don't mind using Linux. My other sister also doesn't mind using Linux, as she uses it daily on one of my family's other computers. I have brainwashed my younger brother to like Linux, and loves using it :D

happysmileman
March 7th, 2008, 08:28 PM
Refuse to install it for her, say you use Linux and if she wants to use WIndows she should do it herself, obviously you can't force her to use Linux, but she shouldn't be able to make you fix her problems

super breadfish
March 7th, 2008, 08:37 PM
Well if WMP is really so important to her tell her to learn how to install it herself.

robertchahine
March 7th, 2008, 08:46 PM
I If Half Life 2 worked on Ubuntu, sigh.

EnergySamus
go to www.softpedia.com and you can fint half life 2 for ubuntu.
and about your sister: tell her that ubuntu is faster, more secure, and all of its software are free .
you should format all the pc and give her two cd winxp and ubuntu.
i'm sure that she gonna know how to install ubuntu only.beacuse it's the "simpliest":popcorn:

Superkoop
March 7th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Well sisters do have a way of not liking to do anything older brothers. =P

Switching my family to use Ubuntu was pretty easy for me, just a matter of using it instead of Vista. My siblings saw me do some nice stuff with compiz-fusion, my parents saw me being able to use the computer in 1min instead of 5+min.
And knowing that my siblings don't want to do anything I tell them to, I made them beg me to use Ubuntu. lol :twisted:
So don't force it on them, just kinda show off, and when they ask if they ask if you will help them set it up, be kinda hesitant about it, (well act like it) and then when they are starting to beg, give in!

You need to take a more slow way about it, that's what I do with my friends, I just kinda show it off and make them more and more envious. I am hoping within not too long I can get them begging me to help them set up Ubuntu.

Snakob808
March 7th, 2008, 09:02 PM
This post really hits home. It's hilarious.

My first piece of advice... give up; it's a lost cause. This may be a blanket statement, but I have found that women are generally intimidated by Linux, or anything else that takes a modicum of reason and analysis.

My second piece of advice... make everything look like windows. I saw a HOWTO around here somewhere about making ubuntu look like vista- complete with the vista icons. Name the Amarok, Songbird, whatever... Windows Media Player. And let her have at it. You just have to get past the "idea" of Linux.

She can still spend hours on facebook and myspace, and Dave Matthews will still be able to serenade her from Linux-run speakers.

HermanAB
March 7th, 2008, 09:05 PM
BTW, Paint Shop runs on Wine.

days_of_ruin
March 7th, 2008, 09:08 PM
Yesterday I reinstalled Windows XP because it was getting too slow. Obviously, I backed up all of the files before I did this. My sister was complaining saying "There's no Windows Media Player!!!". I have no idea why people actually want to use software like that, but I installed Songbird hoping she would use it and like it, since it looks a lot like iTunes. She didn't have much of a look at it and said "I don't want to 'adapt' to the programs you install on here!" I asked her to try it but she refused. Then she went and said "I want to choose what to use not use what you put on here!". That made me think that Linux gives you choice. Lets you install whatever you want. But she hates Linux for some reason and said "Everyone uses Windows so why should I use Linux?". I think that Linux would be great for her, except that Paint Shop Pro doesn't run on Wine and setting up a VM would be a bit drastic. Maybe if I made Linux look like Windows maybe she would like it? What do you think? Do you think Linux would be good for her? It would also mean I wouldn't have to keep reinstalling Windows XP...:)

By the way, WMP is included in Windows XP, but I disabled it to try and make her use Songbird..but it failed :(

How old is she?

miggols99
March 7th, 2008, 09:10 PM
How old is she?

16..yes she's older than me..

regomodo
March 7th, 2008, 09:15 PM
don't bother and don't give any help. It worked out well for me. I am no longer the computer guy for friends and family as they just screw you around. Usually its about where to "find" software or install cracks for them.

My excuse is that i use Linux and can't remember how windows works.

loudnlownoma
March 7th, 2008, 10:06 PM
This post really hits home. It's hilarious.

My first piece of advice... give up; it's a lost cause. This may be a blanket statement, but I have found that women are generally intimidated by Linux, or anything else that takes a modicum of reason and analysis.

My second piece of advice... make everything look like windows. I saw a HOWTO around here somewhere about making ubuntu look like vista- complete with the vista icons. Name the Amarok, Songbird, whatever... Windows Media Player. And let her have at it. You just have to get past the "idea" of Linux.

She can still spend hours on facebook and myspace, and Dave Matthews will still be able to serenade her from Linux-run speakers.

This post is kinda scary. I agree with some of the earlier replies, saying that basically if she wants to keep using Windows, let her keep using Windows. The main reason a lot of us use Linux in any capacity is because we enjoy the freedom of choice it offers through it's use. Saying that she is intimidated by it(without knowing her in any way) or suggesting that the OP just install Linux anyway and try to make it look like Windows are the exact opposite of that freedom of choice. I can understand being the technician of the family or group and, knowing the joys of a Linux box compared to Windows, that it is hard to see why others wouldn't want to switch at your first suggestion. But if she is happy with what she has, there is no reason to force her into changing or suggest that she is inferior because of it. As was said above, this would be no different than the reversed situation. If someone came in and told you that you couldn't use Linux anymore because they have this other OS that is better, no matter what you think, believe, or know, you wouldn't be quite so excited about it.

The big thing is that she is going to be happy using what she wants to use. If that's Windows, so be it. You are happy using Linux, and so you continue to use it. There is nothing wrong with suggesting someone try something new, or even showing them some of the benefits it has, but in the end they should have the choice to run what they want, whether it's OS, a particular software(referring to the underhanded trick of disabling WMP in favor of a program you prefer), or anything else. Tricks and underhandedness will only push someone farther away. If it is something she would truly be happier with, why would forcing it on her be required? That is exactly what she will think, so this kind of trick would only push her even farther from accepting Linux as a possible alternative.

Just keep showing or telling her what she can also do with Linux just as well, mention the advantages of using Linux, and disadvantages of Windows. If she is willing to try Linux, be happy to offer assistance. I wouldn't say stop helping her at all with Windows problems, but you can certainly be more supportive of helping her with Linux, and eventually, if she does want to try it, she will.

Snakob808
March 7th, 2008, 10:22 PM
The concept of Jungian archetypes exist for a reason... therefore, I prefaced my comment with "This may be a blanket statement...".

Whether or not you like to admit it, stereotypes exist for a reason. They are not some strange illusion constructed by the mind. Just as within a joke sleeps some morsel of truth, within a stereotype exists some veracity... albeit may be an over-generalization.

What's "kind of scary" is the seriousness that my post was taken with. Lighten up...

intense.ego
March 7th, 2008, 10:33 PM
wtf...seriously dude, thats his sister have some class.

I don't see what you quoted anywhere on this thread. Did someone delete it?

Bölvağur
March 7th, 2008, 10:45 PM
My first piece of advice... give up; it's a lost cause. This may be a blanket statement, but I have found that women are generally intimidated by Linux

My sister asked me one day to install Linux on her computer and the last weekend I was at a party where this one uber hot "blond like" girl said she was going to have freeBSD installed with pink KDE layout on the desktop.


But this thread reminds me of one of the developers of Ubuntu said when he visited my uni and was talking to us. "If you have problem with your computer, here is my disk"


http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/will-not-fix.jpg

loudnlownoma
March 7th, 2008, 10:46 PM
The concept of Jungian archetypes exist for a reason... therefore, I prefaced my comment with "This may be a blanket statement...".

Whether or not you like to admit it, stereotypes exist for a reason. They are not some strange illusion constructed by the mind. Just as within a joke sleeps some morsel of truth, within a stereotype exists some veracity... albeit may be an over-generalization.

What's "kind of scary" is the seriousness that my post was taken with. Lighten up...

I understand, and took your post, as most any I read on any forums, with a grain of salt. Yes, in some cases, that is the case and some women may be put off by more technical ideas, software, etc. But it can be just as true that a number of women can work circles around men in that same category. I do appreciate heading it with it possibly being a blanket statement, but still a rough assumption without knowing the person you are speaking of. I'll admit I don't know her either, so I may be arguing at a lost cause, in the case that she may not want to try it for exactly that reason.

In either case, my post wasn't directed completely at your post only or any one specifically, just at the whole of the comments here. It makes me nervous that the same people who argue the use of Linux and it's "freedom" will turn to tricks and some of the things mentioned here as plausible ways to convince people to try or begin using Linux. These things are the exact reasons many people get a bad taste for Linux in the first place, and a number of people are in this thread condoning it. That's what bothers me the most. I apologize if my last post was offensive, but that is why I feel so strongly about some of the comments I have seen in this thread, that's all.

aysiu
March 7th, 2008, 11:14 PM
My first piece of advice... give up; it's a lost cause. This may be a blanket statement, but I have found that women are generally intimidated by Linux, or anything else that takes a modicum of reason and analysis. This hasn't been my experience at all. In my experience, both men and women are generally intimidated or mystified by Linux. They either think it's some crazy geeky thing they couldn't handle or some crazy geeky thing they don't want to handle. And I also find women to be more intimidated by sexism than anything that takes a modicum of reason or analysis. Maybe that's just me.

Snakob808
March 7th, 2008, 11:22 PM
Yours was a generalization, as was mine... two sides of the same coin. Which one was worse? They're both the same.

DarkOx
March 7th, 2008, 11:43 PM
Y'know, judging by a lot of comments in this thread, I think a lot of people forget a couple of things when evangelizing Linux. First and most important, that people's impressions of what you're selling will be influenced by their perception of you. Secondly, a lot of "I tried to get [whoever] to try Linux..." stories are a solution in search of a problem.

If I wanted to get someone to dismiss something out of hand, acting like a total jerk when they say they don't want it would be a pretty good place to start. It's no different than a pushy door-to-door salesperson: if they're rude and unhelpful, it doesn't matter how good their product may be, 'cause I'll never have the least inclination to try it.

And too often the benefits of Linux don't address problems people have. Yes, Linux may be more stable or faster or more secure or have a neat spinning cube, but if none of those are issues for someone on Windows, then pointing them out won't help convert anyone. There's a world of difference between someone coming up to you saying, "I've had a lot of viruses lately, could you help?" and then mentioning Linux as a possible solution, and trying to force someone to adapt to your preferred way of doing things.

In a nutshell? If you're going to try and sell people on this Linux idea, remember that that means you're now representing Linux. So try and be helpful, polite and mature while you do it, and you'll probably have an easier time.

FranMichaels
March 7th, 2008, 11:46 PM
This post really hits home. It's hilarious.

My first piece of advice... give up; it's a lost cause. This may be a blanket statement, but I have found that women are generally intimidated by Linux, or anything else that takes a modicum of reason and analysis.

My second piece of advice... make everything look like windows. I saw a HOWTO around here somewhere about making ubuntu look like vista- complete with the vista icons. Name the Amarok, Songbird, whatever... Windows Media Player. And let her have at it. You just have to get past the "idea" of Linux.

She can still spend hours on facebook and myspace, and Dave Matthews will still be able to serenade her from Linux-run speakers.

It's funny if somebody wants someone to switch operating systems?

1. People are not stones, sometimes they change their minds. Being scared of Linux has nothing to do with sex. It's just something new and unfamiliar. Depending on the person's interests and needs, that is what makes the difference. I haven't met a single person, regardless of age, sex, whatever, etc. that couldn't sit down and use my Ubuntu laptop. A browser is a browser, Word processor a word processor, etc. It isn't scary or mysterious once you've seen it and used it for a bit. I'm not sure what the point of your statement is, but if it implies Linux is more complicated than the OS he or she is already using, I vehemently disagree.

2. I would advice against this in every case. Linux is not Windows. It is not a cheap Windows replacement. There are things to be learned and unlearned. If the user needs extra help, just stick a few desktop shortcuts, say what they do. Then let them use it.

aysiu
March 8th, 2008, 12:32 AM
Yours was a generalization, as was mine... two sides of the same coin. Which one was worse? They're both the same.
We both spoke from our own experiences, but yours was worse, because it's an insult to women, unless you don't understand what the word modicum means.

Snakob808
March 8th, 2008, 12:42 AM
Hey, Hero...

Better... worse... it's all relative. I find your comments insulting to sexists.

LaRoza
March 8th, 2008, 12:43 AM
Hey, Hero...

Better... worse... it's all relative. I find your comments insulting to sexists.

The Ubuntu Forums Code of Conduct isn't relative, be warned.

tekguy
March 8th, 2008, 12:49 AM
don't bother and don't give any help. It worked out well for me. I am no longer the computer guy for friends and family as they just screw you around. Usually its about where to "find" software or install cracks for them.

My excuse is that i use Linux and can't remember how windows works.


That is so true. I have people that used to call me all the time about how to install this crack, or burn this file, or download this program. I always end up saying, "I don't remember. I run linux and don't have that problem. The software I need to do all those things is free and I don't need cracks or to find shady places to download stuff."

I don't get as many calls anymore. lol.

init1
March 8th, 2008, 05:55 AM
It's funny if somebody wants someone to switch operating systems?

1. People are not stones, sometimes they change their minds. Being scared of Linux has nothing to do with sex. It's just something new and unfamiliar. Depending on the person's interests and needs, that is what makes the difference. I haven't met a single person, regardless of age, sex, whatever, etc. that couldn't sit down and use my Ubuntu laptop. A browser is a browser, Word processor a word processor, etc. It isn't scary or mysterious once you've seen it and used it for a bit. I'm not sure what the point of your statement is, but if it implies Linux is more complicated than the OS he or she is already using, I vehemently disagree.

2. I would advice against this in every case. Linux is not Windows. It is not a cheap Windows replacement. There are things to be learned and unlearned. If the user needs extra help, just stick a few desktop shortcuts, say what they do. Then let them use it.
I've met someone who complained a lot about my Linux laptop when I let her use it. I had the Feisty Live CD running and she would complain about how it would pause every once and a while to load, how OO Writer predicted her text, how she couldn't get her lists to align correctly, and how everything looked different than she was used to. Of course she has problems with XP too.
I did however have a different experience with someone else. I had a computer running MCN Live with Opera open. He got on for a few minutes and left without any comment or complaint about it.
I also disagree with the suggestion that Linux is not more complicated. In Windows, drives are represented by a letter. Your hard drive is your C:\ drive. In Linux, drives are represented by a /dev/. Your hard drive could be /dev/hda or possibly /dev/sda. One cannot practically access a drive with the /dev name alone however, it must be mounted first. I am not saying that this system doesn't make sense or that I dislike it, I just think it's more complicated.

vishzilla
March 8th, 2008, 06:08 AM
Give her the silent treatment. It did wonders for me, when I removed Windows entirely. Eventually she will get used to Linux

gashcr
March 8th, 2008, 08:22 AM
Interesting case.

I made the switch at home... thanks in part to windows itself. It was so full of viri that it was unbearable to work with it.

Anyway, I bought this computer, so it's technically my computer, and as I am the only one in the house who gives maintenance to it, my word is a rule. So I just switched and everybody who want to use the computer must accept or look elsewhere... :P

But I think your case is different. I did it because it was my computer, and even when it's the only computer in my house, and everybody use it and so, I have the right to set it up to my likings. However, if you have your own computer, you must be more open minded to what the other members of your house want.

I don't even support the idea of deny support to your sister installing XP stuff... That's mean... and it looks pretty bad from a FOSS adept. You have no right to make her switch. If someday she is interested in trying a different solution, do the thing... but that day will never come if she came to see you as a zealous who won't help her just because you support other ideas.

That my friend, only goes against any FOSS philosophy

NightwishFan
March 8th, 2008, 08:37 AM
When I lived with my parents and sister, I set up A dual boot Vista/Ubuntu. My mom used Ubuntu, my sister used Vista. That is until she got some kind of virus that made it impossible to browse the web. I do not like my sister, or windows, so I said she was on her own. I caught her using my live cd to access Ubuntu. :)

Edit: I would say let her be on her own and install windows herself, however she would likely wipe the whole disk, and install that giant virus.

angry_johnnie
March 8th, 2008, 11:10 AM
Well if she likes windows so much, maybe she should use it. It really doesn't make any sense that she hates linux without having tried it, but what the heck? That's just the way it is with most people. Maybe next time you should give her a Windows installation cd and let her do all the work. And maybe --just maybe-- after having spent hours just trying to make the thing work, she'll start wondering whether there's something better out there.

But, awful as windows may be, she's right about one thing: She should be able to use whatever she wants to use, without having to explain to you, or anyone else, why she wants to use it. Grant her the right to have a different opinion.

:popcorn:

zcal
March 8th, 2008, 01:58 PM
Then she went and said "I want to choose what to use not use what you put on here!".

Alanis Morissette said it best.

"And isn't it ironic
Don't you think?

Who would've thought?
It figures..."

3rdalbum
March 8th, 2008, 02:17 PM
Simple. Give her a blank copy of Windows on that computer, and then she can choose what programs to put on top. She can run the computer her own way, and you can run your computer your way.

If she has problems, she can buy her own technical support, because you don't know Windows anymore and you especially don't know all these strange programs she's running on her machine.

If she completely trashes the thing, tell her that if she ran Linux, you'd know enough to help her fix the problem.

Within a year, she'll be running Linux too. That's the good way, because you've given her the choice that is at the heart of the FLOSS philosophy, but at the same time you've made her other courses of action more likely to fail.

Some people stick with Windows because we help them stay on Windows.

Xzallion
March 8th, 2008, 02:50 PM
This post really hits home. It's hilarious.

My first piece of advice... give up; it's a lost cause. This may be a blanket statement, but I have found that women are generally intimidated by Linux, or anything else that takes a modicum of reason and analysis.

My second piece of advice... make everything look like windows. I saw a HOWTO around here somewhere about making ubuntu look like vista- complete with the vista icons. Name the Amarok, Songbird, whatever... Windows Media Player. And let her have at it. You just have to get past the "idea" of Linux.

She can still spend hours on facebook and myspace, and Dave Matthews will still be able to serenade her from Linux-run speakers.

Regardless of gender, race, sexuality, religion, etc people are equal. Each has individual talents and weaknesses, and not one of them deserve to be generalized.


The concept of Jungian archetypes exist for a reason... therefore, I prefaced my comment with "This may be a blanket statement...".

Whether or not you like to admit it, stereotypes exist for a reason. They are not some strange illusion constructed by the mind. Just as within a joke sleeps some morsel of truth, within a stereotype exists some veracity... albeit may be an over-generalization.

What's "kind of scary" is the seriousness that my post was taken with. Lighten up...

Your logic is flawed. Just because all humor and stereotypes have a grain of truth to them, does not mean the truth is what the stereotype hints at.

For instance, the old offensive idea that if a black man was in a nice car, he stole it. This stereotypical idea wasn't one based on fact but societies view that an african-american couldn't earn something as nice as 'the white folk'. This stereotype speaks more about the caucasian view of african-americans then it tells about african-americans.

Stereotypes are only supported by anecdotal evidence at best, and are about as valuable to an argument as an uncited wikipedia article for a research paper.
Plus not all jokes have a 'morsel of truth.' for instance most knock knock jokes don't have any basis in fact, but the punch line is delivered through puns and the unexpected.

Then telling others to "Lighten up" when the Ubuntu Forums code of conduct (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy) specifically states to be respectful of all users. Your post wasn't respectful to females and this was pointed out, in a polite respectful manner. There is no need for them to "lighten up."

screaminj3sus
March 8th, 2008, 03:10 PM
Songbird is buggy as hell, and WMP is actually a pretty good player,

Warprunner
March 8th, 2008, 03:18 PM
I am na "older" guy. Been around to see this kinda thing many times. Some examples:
1. People going from Mainframe Terminals to a PC actually needed psychological therapy in the form of groups because it was so foriegn to them. That company that did the hand holding made 100's of Millions!
2. People programming from command line versus people programming in GUI's is a battle that still happens today.
3. OS/2 while far superior to Windows never caught on well because "Everyone runs windows and I don't want to be left out" syndrom.

The key is patience. The best thing you can do...Load up the similar programs in Ubuntu that she uses in Windows. Show her how fast and easy it all is. Streaming Vids is a good seller. Go to youtube. Watch a vid. When it's done go to the temp directory. Rename the file to a .flv and move it somewhere. Then ask her...do you want this? That quickly. If she learns she can have all those vids on her hard drive immediately...might change her mind.
The graphics manipulation ... I don't know...but if you can use GIMP well....find things the Windows programs won't do.
The whole thing...don't push. No one likes change. HArd to accept. Gradual and steady is the answer.
Just my opinion. Spans...40 years in the industry.

mAkKoOo210
March 8th, 2008, 03:28 PM
Man, I'm with you.
Your story seems mine, though I have a brother not a sister.
I have to install programs (for security included) on windows, take care of it (registry cleaning, antispyware, antimalware, general scanning...)
Organizing folders, moving files...all of this just because he is not adaptable on Linux.
I lost any hope, in the end.
But I hope you will have more luck.
If so, tell me how you did it ;)

slipperhead
March 8th, 2008, 03:36 PM
slowly but surely, my family are seeing the benefits to using linux over windows.the pc i'm using now is a dual boot with windows xp.

Warprunners video tip might just be the icing on the cake for my partner ;)

Jay Jay
March 8th, 2008, 04:53 PM
To impose your vision of software upon your Sister is counter-productive, if she's not genuinely interested and receptive then there's no point - It's just a futile effort. As others already stated, give her the XP CD and let her get on with it. If she's so enamored with Windows then she ought to learn how to install it and stop depending upon your help.

You're better off putting your passion and energies into more rewarding and gratifying causes such as helping existing users and people who are curious about learning more about Linux and those who want to make the switch.

Unfortunately a lot of people have been mindscaped into believing nothing exists in the computing world beyond Windows and that is unlikely to change.

LaRoza
March 8th, 2008, 07:55 PM
Yes, forum staff, I am ready for the impending infractions...

Zxallion... is that soapbox comfy enough for you?

As you probably saw, this was settled several posts ago. Alas, it is not in my personality to let ill conceived rhetoric represent my opinions, nor let some anti-misogynistic matryr (read- John of Arc) score one for the bleeding hearts.

As for the cliche "Your logic is flawed" argument, your naive regurgitation of the old "anecdotal evidence" card, and the beat-to-death black-man-in-the-car scenario, I was not saying that woman are inherently less intelligent than men. What I was saying, is that there are fundamental differences in the cognitive process between males and females. Let me iterate... there are women who excell in mathematics, physics, programming, etc, but there are a myriad of studies that you can find, other than Wikipedia, pointing out, in peer reviewed publications, that men consistantly score higher on math tests and women consistently score higher on language tests. This is, once again, and oversimplification of the studies, but, after all, all of our human communitication is based on generalities.

As for the stereotype argument... look at the evidence... google 'prison statistics,' and you will find statistical releases from the Department of Justice, stating the rate of incarceration amongst the races. I will delve no further into this dead end topic other than to say that the statistics may say something about society, environment, whatever... that's not what I'm debating- I am only saying that it IS. Look at the statistics of suicide bombing, terror attacks, and opium production... see who's at the top of that list. But, no, you're right... stereotypes have no truth. There would be no profilers, criminal or otherwise, were there not some truth to stereotypes.

Before you proselytize, and wax (or rather wane) philosophically, I am going to ask you to read me like Nietzsche- slowly. And, yes, to you too, Xzallion, lighten up. I go around and around with my wife about Windows versus Linux, I thought the original post was humorous, because I could relate to it... I commented about my experiences, and everyone's feathers got ruffled... chill out, killer.

Way off topic, and some questionable stuff there...

I am closing this thread until this is reviewed.