Microsoft must pay $1.4bn to EU

[ukripper]

About time, Microsoft must pay $1.4bn to EU.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7266629.stm

[k2t0f12d]

Jeez, thats gonna cut into their Yahoo! budget...:rolleyes:

[erginemr]

Good news! Good to hear that M$ is losing prestige. But more than that, people has to know more about Linux and why it is better. I have found a perfect multilingual candidate for that:

http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net

So, in an effort to make Linux known better, I humbly suggest everyone of you to put this link to your regular e-mail signatures, and use it in your future correspondence with other people.

[LightB]

I can almost hear all the MS underling twerps typing away at their dopey little FUD blogs.

[ukripper]

Good news! Good to hear that M$ is losing prestige. But more than that, people has to know more about Linux and why it is better. I have found a perfect multilingual candidate for that:

http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net

So, in an effort to make Linux known better, I humbly suggest everyone of you to put this link to your regular e-mail signatures, and use it in your future correspondence with other people.

Nice one mate!

[slider2800]

Heh... this is what happens when you don't play fair.
It was about time.

[rolnics]

I saw that, at last the EU has done something right!! :lolflag:

[Linuxratty]

Heh... this is what happens when you don't play fair.
It was about time.


And they never play fair,but here in the USA,big corporations are classified as persons,and can do whatever they want...
I'm so glad the EU is standing up to MS...However,MS has move money than some small countries,so that's small change to them.

[ukripper]

I saw that, at last the EU has done something right!! :lolflag:

finally EU done what it was suppose to do when it first established.

We need some more out of this EU.

[fatality_uk]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/02/27/ec_fines_microsoft_largest_ever/

A littl more detail. It's funny, I saw posts on here about MS's OpenSource statement. smoke screen as usual. I think we can reslistically start to see MS losing share in a big way!

[DrMega]

I wonder what will happen to that $1.4bn. That will pay for quite a few trips abroad for MEPs. Or it will pay for a 23000 brand new Jaguars.

I'm glad MS got put in their place though, but I hope it does turn out to be for the benefit of the public.

[gsmanners]

Hilarious. Except this is just a drop in the bucket for Microsoft, whose computer tax has given them a $70 billion windfall per year minimum.

Let me know if they ever get hit with a $50 billion fine, then maybe the world will take notice.

[ukripper]

Good things come in small packages -Awareness, which was most important here, have been achieved. Public realising MS dirty monopoly.

[~LoKe]

Dirty pennies to Microsoft.

[LaRoza]

I wish my name were "EU".

[adityakavoor]

Jeez, thats gonna cut into their Yahoo! budget...:rolleyes:

:lolflag:

[kellemes]

Dirty pennies to Microsoft.

Dirty pennies to the EU also..

[spamzilla]

Who's got the champagne? :lolflag:

[Martje_001]

Who's got the champagne? :lolflag:
http://www.kennislink.nl/upload/125621_962_1104331834783-Champagne_POP_KL.jpg
Cheers!

[plun]

Who's got the champagne? :lolflag:

Well, wait with the champagne...now we are at penalty levels which
hurts MS... before it was too low. :twisted:

Original press release from EU
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/08/318&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

I really hope that Hardy will be a success... the timing is good...

:)

[KiwiNZ]

I wonder if the EU will act against the Insurence,Oil and Drug Corporations in the same way.

Oh I forgot ,they are on the board of these:rolleyes:

For this to be credible they must be consisitent

[suibhne]

Dirty pennies to the EU also..

Well, not so bad if you are a EU citizen

[plun]

I wonder if the EU will act against the Insurence,Oil and Drug Corporations in the same way.

Oh I forgot ,they are on the board of these:rolleyes:

For this to be credible they must be consisitent

Well, its much more difficult with oligopoly markets then
a monopoly actor which abuse a market.

EU and competition
http://europa.eu/pol/comp/index_en.htm

Then we have a really tough lady as commisioner...:) probably a ghost for MS.. thumbs up for her !

http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/kroes/index_en.html

[Chame_Wizard]

ans she 's Ducth :guitar:

[arashiko28]

The part that you may not know of the power of M$ is the multi billion dollars deal with the US government that grants them a right to state that every pc build within the US domains must have Windows installed. Here's the origin of the boom and the race to make every hardware compatible with the power- resources ever hungry M$ OS and leaving good OS's like Linux behind.
They even have the right to sue any company that doesn't follow this. So let's say that they haven't been playing fair for quite a long time now.

[KiwiNZ]

......Then we have a really tough lady as commisioner...:) probably a ghost for MS.. thumbs up for her !

http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/kroes/index_en.html


Hmmmm on the Board of Lucent Technologies:rolleyes:

[plun]

Hmmmm on the Board of Lucent Technologies:rolleyes:

Well, I don't know where you want to go with this... :confused:

We don't have any problems with the hardware industry, except
perhaps Intel which can be really ugly against resellers and competitors...:)

We have both Nokia and Ericssons headquarters in Europe so Lucent...:confused:

[tbroderick]

Jeez, thats gonna cut into their Yahoo! budget...:rolleyes:

Actually, it won't effect it. Microsoft is doing the Yahoo deal via bank loans. They do have something like a $20 billion built up though.

[rustybronco]

The part that you may not know of the power of M$ is the multi billion dollars deal with the US government that grants them a right to state that every pc build within the US domains must have Windows installed. Please show proof.

[ukripper]

Well, not so bad if you are a EU citizen

I am glad there is free movement for us in EU . Live work eat and shag anywhere

[jken146]

I'm not sure that there is such a thing as an EU citizen. The EU is less like a federal government and more like a series of treaties and a thick, bureaucratic/executive layer spread across the member states. It's good though, when it wants to be :)

[ukripper]

If you are UK citizen you then are automatocally EU citizen as it is written on your red passport. And free movement is a great thing in EU constitution as I have lived in Germany and enjoyed free movement for 2 years being treated with same rights as German countrymen. So I think it works fair enough. I support EU all the way.

[jken146]

My passport says I'm a British citizen. Still, let's not quibble over semantics. I love the freedom of living in the EU.

Going back on topic, I hope that the Commission only gets tougher on MS.

[ukripper]

MS should learn now that they are not dealing in US but on global scale and cant drive everyone how they like it as they used to. A BIG slap on MS's face from EU.

[Hallvor]

Use the money from Microsoft to develop and promote free software! :lolflag:

[quinnten83]

glad to see something is getting done, but I remain sceptical.
MS has more money and influence than G_D and they aren' t affraid to (ab)use it in order to mantain their position.
When they are forced to use open format, are no longer allowed to sell OS bundled with hardware and they stop falsely prosecuting the FLOSS community, then I will break out the champagne.
I don' t mind that they are a huge multibillion corp, I just whish that they would' ve gotten there on their merrits rather than because of bullying.

[ukripper]

Looking back I wish I could change time where IBM wouldn't have signed deals in 80s with MS and would have chose unix instead.

We would be laffing at MS by now.

[lancest]

Though they still generate huge amounts of revenue they are falling far behind behind in Web technology,& mobile devices. They are screaming like stuck pigs about their new "openness" Their false motives are so clear to anyone who really looks. I hope the desperate deal with poor Yahoo drains their cash. They are cowardly predators.

[blastus]

Ha ha. Microsoft has never and will never accept responsibility for their actions as they have always maintained that it is business as usual. The unfortunate thing is that Microsoft will conflate having to pay these fines with the "cost of developing Microsoft software", and will therefore pass the costs onto the consumer by raising the prices. The fines need to be significantly larger ($20+ billion) to get the message through.

[quinnten83]

Ha ha. Microsoft has never and will never accept responsibility for their actions as they have always maintained that it is business as usual. The unfortunate thing is that Microsoft will conflate having to pay these fines with the "cost of developing Microsoft software", and will therefore pass the costs onto the consumer by raising the prices. The fines need to be significantly larger ($20+ billion) to get the message through.

Better for Linux if they do.
We can start screaming even harder that Linux is FREE!!!

[hyper_ch]

You konw, the issue is that windows is also "free".

--> I bought my new computer last XXX and it came free with windows on it and works and outlook and internet explorer...

People don't realize they actually pay for it...

[k2t0f12d]

Looking back I wish I could change time where IBM wouldn't have signed deals in 80s with MS and would have chose unix instead.

Naw, we'd probably be running CP/M'dows. :rolleyes:

[mips]

Naw, we'd probably be running CP/M'dows. :rolleyes:

Or the latest version of OS/2

[ukripper]

Naw, we'd probably be running CP/M'dows. :rolleyes:

I think IBM would have used unix, only if unix would be open source back then

How about somehting like this 20 years ago http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/p/os/aix/overview/index.html

[k2t0f12d]

Yes, but AIX is not free software. I.B.M. are part of the reason Microsoft was able to do what it did to the software industry. I'm sure there has been collective mule kicking behind closed doors in retrospect. No one expected then that Microsoft would be able to convince courts that software was licenseable in the same way as traditional written works, or that the Supreme Court would rule that software was patentable. The net net is that through gross misunderstanding of the technology, lawmakers accidentally created a monopoly. A monopoly that the greatest governments in the world have not been able to destroy, but that we in free software are dismantling piece by piece.

[ukripper]

Still I think IBM AIX would be better than MSDOS if they bothered to create their own OS.

[bonzodog]

hrm...this IS interesting...looking at the people replying, there are no US citizens piping up about this; I wonder why?:confused:

It's interesting to note though the US people on reddit and Digg are up in arms about it, and are claiming that the US is being more or less victimised by the EU, and that this is amazingly unfair etc.

There are also a lot of calls for MS to activate the 'kill switch' built into vista and Xp , which makes the system unbootable in about 30 seconds flat, and would kill every windows machine in the EU, without fail.

[k2t0f12d]

They wouldnt have needed to. What they should have done is avoid going in lock stock and barrel with M$ at the beginning and offered their hardware with Microsoft's hacked QDOS vomit or Digital Research's DR-DOS. DR-DOS was superior technology anyway, addressing high memory long before it occured to the muppets running M$. UNIX development hasn't honestly ever been threatened, and Stallman would have done GNU regardless of which way the market went. In fact, if not for M$, free software may not have seen the support that has caused its exploding popularity. Blessings in disguise :rolleyes:

EDIT: I am a U.S. citizen.

[popch]

There are also a lot of calls for MS to activate the 'kill switch' built into vista and Xp , which makes the system unbootable in about 30 seconds flat, and would kill every windows machine in the EU, without fail.

There's no such switch. Even if there was, most machines in corporate and government settings could not be reached by it.

Wish there was such a switch, though. Migration away from Windows would start faster than you can misspell Microsoft.


What they should have done is avoid going in lock stock and barrel with M$ at the beginning and offered their hardware with Microsoft's (technology) ... muppets running M$.

Apart from terminology, we are quite in agreement that the dominant position of Microsoft within the PC market is not due to any technical properties of their products, even if we were to admit that they sell some good products as well.

Their dominance within the market is purely and simply due to their influencing the market by any means available. If it had been possible, they would have done so cheerfully without any software at all. They are preparing to do so with digital content. That makes them anything but muppets, if by 'muppet' you mean what I think you do.

It never pays to underestimate the opponent (Macchiavelli, I believe).

[ukripper]

Free software would have taken off despite of M$. BSD project(started long before M$) was already going towards free world but IBM didn't take BSD seriously as lack of support and not considering it as viable option for their hardware(just thinking it as another boll0cks to be smashed up againt their hardware).

[rustybronco]

hrm...this IS interesting...looking at the people replying, there are no US citizens piping up about this; I wonder why?:confused:

It's interesting to note though the US people on reddit and Digg are up in arms about it, and are claiming that the US is being more or less victimised by the EU, and that this is amazingly unfair etc.

US victimized by the EU?
1.4b fine handed out to Microsoft is chump change to them and I wish it was larger. the down side of it is Microsoft will just add it to the cost of doing business and charge more for their products.
To bad we don't have the same fortitude as the EU.

as was said before, they have more money than God and will buy anything/one they want.

[KiwiNZ]

With all the evil things Microsoft is supposed to be doing I am surprised they are not held responsible for .....

Worm rot
Birdflu
The Ford Edsel
Bad hairdays
The mother in law
Whan and Westlife
Global warming

Its time to move on . Surely the EU ,the American llegal system and anyone elseI can think of have real issues to deal with. This tall poppie thing is getting tiresome.

[Æniad]

The part that you may not know of the power of M$ is the multi billion dollars deal with the US government that grants them a right to state that every pc build within the US domains must have Windows installed.

I'm calling bullcrap on this right now. Even if you disregard Apple Dell and System76 produce Linux powered computers.

[saulgoode]

With all the evil things Microsoft is supposed to be doing I am surprised they are not held responsible for .....

Worm rot
Birdflu
The Ford Edsel
Bad hairdays
The mother in law
Whan and Westlife
Global warming

And here was me thinking they were just being held responsible for failing to comply with the terms of a previously assessed penalty of a duly appointed government agency of the European Union.

[ukripper]

Another shot in MS's pocket - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7270757.stm
:popcorn:I m lovin it!

Quoted :
"By contract, 90% of Vista sales are to PC manufacturers, where the operating system is pre-installed on their computers.

"We anticipate these changes will provide greater opportunities... to sell more stand-alone copies of Windows," said Brad Brooks, a Microsoft corporate vice president.

Microsoft says it has now sold 100 million Vista licences since it was launched. "

[BigSilly]

They could pay me to use it, and I still wouldn't touch that garbage!

[EdThaSlayer]

The starting point of a fall of an empire.

[Jammy4041]

Well, Ubuntu is great but microsoft, all they have done is shoot themselves in the foot sorry, pocket

[suibhne]

I'm not sure that there is such a thing as an EU citizen. The EU is less like a federal government and more like a series of treaties and a thick, bureaucratic/executive layer spread across the member states. It's good though, when it wants to be :)

if you are a national of a EU member state, you are an EU citizen - take a look at any EU passport

[smoker]

hmm, i suspect there will be a few flying chairs at MS HQ!

[exneo002]

quick hide your code! microsoft not only did that but stole networking code for linux mint! I guess they cant make anything good.

[FranMichaels]

With all the evil things Microsoft is supposed to be doing I am surprised they are not held responsible for .....

Worm rot
Birdflu
The Ford Edsel
Bad hairdays
The mother in law
Whan and Westlife
Global warming

Its time to move on . Surely the EU ,the American llegal system and anyone elseI can think of have real issues to deal with. This tall poppie thing is getting tiresome.

Supposed to be doing? The things Microsoft does and has done have big effects on competition. There is a reason Free Software is main competitor MS offerings, MS has trouble just buying it out...

Just because you are tired of MS getting "bashed", warranted or not, people should be able to express his or her opinion.
Further reading
Microsoft Litigation (http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653)

Now when people use Free Software it encourages local companies and helps others grow (and corporations too, or they (IBM, Google, EBay, Amazon and so many others... wouldn't be using Linux, Apache, mySQL, etc. etc. etc.). Obviously the EU is privy to this. Microsoft is just another company to them. It isn't some special entity that must remained untouched.

Computers have an effect on society, thus are important. There are more important things I'm sure, but as technology becomes more and more pervasive in our lives, it would be irresponsible to just "let things be, turn a blind eye to shady dealings." Microsoft is just a corporation... etc. I would claim that is shamefully complacent and ignorant.

Is this acceptable?
http://wiki.linux-delhi.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/OpenStandards/MsNgoLobby

Should the EU stop now? Please. MS should be allowed to keep API's secret to make it harder for other applications to inter-operate? Or perhaps it is fine that Microsoft stacks the vote in regard to document standard since it's for the good of its bottom line?

Anyway, kudos and "clean pennies"(?) to the EU. I am impressed as they are actually making an effort to ensure competition.

P.S It is argued that Microsoft does help promote global warming. Due to hardware requirements (causing e-waste) and increased power consumption ala DRM. :lolflag:

[khensucat]

US Citizen here. Goddess bless the EU for having the balls to do what the cowards in charge here refuse to. Looking forward to many more slaps where that came from ;)

To the person rambling about blaming MS for global warming et. al., here is one of my favorite quotes:

“The government is not trying to destroy Microsoft, it’s simply seeking to compel Microsoft to obey the law. It’s quite revealing that Mr. Gates equates the two.”

[gsmanners]

Mr. Gates equates abiding by the law to be equal to his company's destruction because he's a smart man. He knows his own limitations and the incompetence of the people under him. People call him a "genius" and such, but he was really just lucky. That Microsoft has survived to this point is a bit of a miracle (and a lesson about having good connections).

[ukripper]

No doubt MS bloke is good a business man but not a genius. i really hate when his name comes under a technical genius lists.

[ukripper]

Another hole in MS dude's pocket http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7280569.stm

is it fall of empire?

I am so Happy today. Atlast payback time

[D-EJ915]

so this is how the EU makes money, lol! Maybe the US government should take heed and start sucking funds from private companies too ;)

[k2t0f12d]

so this is how the EU makes money, lol! Maybe the US government should take heed and start sucking funds from private companies too ;)

They do. That method is called taxation. Fines are voluntarily avoidable by comprehensively observing the rules made by the rulemakers who are empowered to impose the fines, which Microsoft had not done.

[ukripper]

so this is how the EU makes money, lol! Maybe the US government should take heed and start sucking funds from private companies too ;)

EU and US both make money from our pockets not just from private firms

[suibhne]

EU and US both make money from our pockets not just from private firms

The money isn't made from our pockets and then secreted away to off shore bank accounts/family members etc - it is spent on public services which are accountable through the people we choose to elect.

the 'EU' and 'US' are not, as public institutions, comparable to your local business

[kornguy26]

while i do agree microsaft needs to be knocked down a few pegs should we really be happy the eu can get away with punishing an American company andf i think they should fine apple for coding in the new ipod nano to keep all but itunes from communicating with them appler needs knocked down a few pegs two

[saulgoode]

while i do agree microsaft needs to be knocked down a few pegs should we really be happy the eu can get away with punishing an American company...

I could be wrong but I am assuming that the fine was accessed based on Microsoft violating the terms of their agreement for doing business in the European Economic Community.

This is not the same as Europe coming after American companies. The companies have previously accepted the rules and authority of the European Commission when they were granted access to trade in Europe (kinda like if you violate Microsoft's end-user license agreement, if you didn't want to risk punishment then you shouldn't have agreed to it in the first place).

[kostkon]

What about the idea of the EU forcing the OEMS and/or computer shops to offer a choice of at least two OSes for their systems.

Think of it as a temporary measure (a couple of years); as a push to diminish the monopoly in the PC market and start the gears running. This will allow more players to enter the market and compete.

What do you think?!

[zmjjmz]

Whatever happened to that bill anyways?
It was published in 2004, and I have yet to see progress with it...
(Though I don't live in the EU, so I really can't tell :P)

[ubuntu27]

Why does the article say "Explorer internet browser" instead of "Internet Explorer browser" ? MS's browser name is different in United Kingdom or what?


An investigation concluded in 2004 that Microsoft was guilty of freezing out rivals in products such as media players, while unfairly linking its Explorer internet browser to its Windows operating system at the expense of rival servers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7266629.stm



The first will look at whether Microsoft unfairly ties its Explorer internet browser to its Windows operating system.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4938610.stm

[tad1073]

I am an American and i believe that M$ needs to be dismantled and Bill Gates and the whole lot of them need to be thrown in prison along with most of our politicians. Not giving the consumer a choice when they purchase a computer violates freedom of choice-it is comparable to separation of church and state. I hope more U.S. citizens realize that M$ along with our government are taking away our anonymity.For that matter the sites that sell personal information ought to be included with those that violate laws concerning freedom of choice and the right to remain anonymous.

Anyway, i hope the US will follow suite but there are to many stock holders that will loose, I guarantee that most of the government has invested in M$ which is why the law makers let M$ do what they please in the first place.

[ukripper]

The money isn't made from our pockets and then secreted away to off shore bank accounts/family members etc - it is spent on public services which are accountable through the people we choose to elect.

the 'EU' and 'US' are not, as public institutions, comparable to your local business

You must be living in a dream. More tahn half of it goes offshore like they are going to show you accounts.Do they?

you must really need to open your eyes and think out of the box not lead by what you see everyday on media coverage and news.




Anyway back to the topic. i think US needs to do what EU did in this respect.

[ukripper]

What about the idea of the EU forcing the OEMS and/or computer shops to offer a choice of at least two OSes for their systems.



I think it is a good solution, this way retailers will be forced to keep atleast alternate OS on prebuilds they sell.

Competition Commision should be setup to monitor retailers activity though.

[ukripper]

Whatever happened to that bill anyways?
It was published in 2004, and I have yet to see progress with it...
(Though I don't live in the EU, so I really can't tell :P)

Which bill you are mentioning?

[ukripper]

Anyway, i hope the US will follow suite but there are to many stock holders that will loose, I guarantee that most of the government has invested in M$ which is why the law makers let M$ do what they please in the first place.

I am very certain on that one!

[coolglobal]

There is no question that Microsoft as we currently know it will crumble. The better product will prevail. Linux rules the net; it's taking the mobile phones; entire goverments & countries are coming onboard; Linux is on the threshold of taking the laptop market. In a very short time a tsunami of linux will occur. Windows? A very interesting museum exhibit.

[ukripper]

Windows? A very interesting museum exhibit.

in which i won't be among visitors!

[kornguy26]

i just hope mac dosent become the big os the would be hell we can say goodbye to gaming or anything else cool i hate macs and always will

[FranMichaels]

in which i won't be among visitors!

The sad thing is for post 2000 versions, only cracked versions of Windows could be in a museum. No way to "authenticate" installs, and Vista machines need to be checked in like once a month by Microsoft servers...

As for Apple taking over, I doubt it, unless they make an effort to support more hardware. With Linux, it should one way or another run on pretty much any machine. I mean support for a dozen platforms is reasonable, look at debian.

If you want Apple you have to buy their box. Secondly, the advantages over Linux aren't as great as over Windows. We don't deal with spyware, open ports that can't be closed, activation, etc. Plus we have package-management and no lock in.

Linux is already the number 2 OS isn't it? If you count everything it runs on, Windows is the one to beat.

[Cyberponcho]

I guess billy will look in his small money bag and deal with it.

[-gabe-noob-]

In the hopes SC2 will be ported to linux
- "Hell it's about time"