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deadimp
February 26th, 2008, 06:37 AM
EDIT: I made my presentation yesterday ( 04/03/08 ), and I have posted some of the details on this reply (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4653824#post4653824).
Later I will post the small slide show I used on this main post.

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I'm not sure which forum this exactly belongs in, or if I should be posting this in a different community.
I searched around on the Ubuntu forums, and on the wide open range of the internet, couldn't find anything that really handled my situation, so here it goes.

Warning: Long post, not for the faint of heart
EDIT: Make that massive.

Background / Situation:
I am a senior in high school, and I attend public school in the United States. I'm a computer nerd, and I've done a little programming as a hobby. I'm a fan of free software - the kind that is 'free' as in 'free speech' and 'free beer'. I have Windows XP and Ubuntu on dual boot with GRUB, and I'm getting to use Ubuntu more and more. The only proprietary software on my computer is Windows itself, and a few old programs that are used in school (such as Logger Pro Demo, Chem Skill Builder, and NuCalc from EPGY). Everything else is free software, with a smidgen of freeware (which kind of counts as proprietary, I know).

About June last year there was an open invitation (for around 15-20 people) to help serve on the Technology Steering Committee for my school district. My mom suggested that I try it, and so I did. I figured I could introduce some free software maybe influence its use in our school / district.
Problem was, I really didn't know what to do, and even now I still don't have a complete idea. I've attended about two of the four or so meetings that have been held (due to other responsibilities) and to be honest I didn't really contribute anything, I just sat there. Only thing I said was, "there might be some open source software for that" once or twice.
The head of the committee is the school district's Director of Technology Services, and he seemed to be pleased that a student (I'm the only one as far as I know) was participating in it. He also seems to be open to the introduction of new technologies and all that. Hopefully these are positive signs, that there may be a chance that the school district may use free software.
I wasn't able to make the last meeting on Valentine's Day (reason implied), and emailed the Tech Director telling him I wouldn't be able to make it. I also asked what I could do next time, and suggested that I could present some open source software.
He replied and said that I could talk about open source software in the meeting this March.


Topic at Hand:
What I need help with is what software to present to this committee and how to present it, so that they could see that it can be easily used, maintained, and so on. Depending on that, I'll need help on how to continually show the power of open source and free software, and how it could be used in the school system.

I would prefer constructive and understandable criticism, nothing like "lol ur not g2 do that". If you feel that this can't work from any standpoint, say so in a way that could help.

I don't want to be blindly-idealistic and pretend like this is going to be accepted with open arms.
I know that people will want to remain with familiarity. This is why I'm asking for help - I'm hoping that someone could give me some pointers on how to possibly sway them and put them at ease.
I know that there won't be a massive switch from proprietary to free software. I'm not asking for a radical revolutionary switch, that everyone should take all of the proprietary software and cast it into the furnace (would be cool if we had one, though) - just a slight nudge towards free software to give the district a taste of free software's potential.

I feel free software should be introduced for all levels of public education: the students, teachers, and all other staff - school administration, tech administration, etc.
I'm looking for software that will be user-friendly. This is for a public school system, not a magnet school. Most people at the school, including the teachers, don't know how to get down-and-dirty with their machine. Heck, I hardly know how to. As long as there is an ergonomic and intuitive GUI that's easy to use, I think they'll be good.
Not only user-friendly, but also stable and maintained. It doesn't have to be updated every day, but if it hasn't been updated in around a year or so, I don't really want to consider it. There also needs to be an active community for the software. A mailing list will do, a forum better, just some sort of basic interaction.


Strategy:
One method I've thought of for presenting it would be to get a basic machine, some outcast from a lab or a laptop (if they're in a trusting mood) - low-level to show the breadth of support - and install the various applications at home, work out the kinks, etc. Then take it to the meeting and just do something quick. I'll probably only have a few minutes of presentation time - I don't want to bore them. Just connect the machine to the projector that'll be there, maybe amaze them with the driver support (if it works, and if they pay attention), and click around. Make it an active presentation, nothing like a PowerPoint (or OpenOffice Presentation) fraught with mundane bullet points with the occasional screenshot. (I would have to make myself a guideline, though.)
They should have some sort of interest during the presentation, since they're (hopefully) willingly participating in a Technology Steering Committee.
The audience for these meetings involves the Tech Director, about 10 or so various teachers from various schools in our district - some of them I know - and myself. I want to cater this first presentation to them, just throw out options, give an overview. Something quick, to 'whet their appetite'.
After that I'll mainly try to communicate with the Tech Director, send him a little information concerning the stuff I went over, but not spam the living heck out of his mail box. That, and I'll try to involve some of my friends to look at it, maybe talk to my old CS teacher to see what can be done. Keep on going with the tech meetings, etc.
Nothing big, just start out small.

The free software that I've considered presenting:
[ Cross Platform Applications on Windows ]
Like I said before, a slight nudge. Staying in Windows could maintain a comfort so it wouldn't scare the living crap out of people.
If these applications are used, switching to something like Ubuntu shouldn't be difficult since there will be that reassuring familiarity.
To elaborate: Internet Explorer is still the default browser on all of the systems. Microsoft Office is the reigning tyrant. The teach-to-type software looks like it was written in COBOL, Fortran, or . The computers for our Computer Science class use *shudder* TextPad for Java. VisualBasic *shudders again* is still being used to start off in CS (though they're using Visual Studio Express, which is a little better).
I could possibly introduce Firefox (I'm sure they know something about this), the OpenOffice.org suite, and one of the many development suites
(I doubt they'll focus on development that much, however... I'm not sure how much to focus on this aspect.)
Windows is my primary goal, since I'm using it write now *slaps own hand* (though using Programmer's Notepad). It is, unfortunately, popular.

[i][ Ubuntu ]
I know that none of the teachers will lunge at getting accustomed to an almost entirely new OS. Plus, the tech administrators at the schools won't think too fondly of this.
However, testing it out couldn't hurt any. The Ubuntu-based distros seem extremely easy to install and use.
Plus, there's Edubuntu, which doesn't seem to cater to high school students, but could be used for those in elementary and middle school.
The tools offered in the KDE education suite seem very promising. I'm just wondering to what extent these and other apps, such as OpenOffice, can go for teaching basic technology classes like BCIS or Typing. Heck, something like Kalzium could help replace ChemSkill.
Plus, I got bored yesterday and decided to watch the KDE4 Release Event Keynote (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UneGtZlehTU) on YouTube yesterday. The mention of KDE on Windows (http://windows.kde.org/) intrigued me, so I downloaded it to try it out. Only problem was, I was just fooling around and wasn't researching anything for education - I know I probably could have downloaded the education package off of the server - I'll need to do that. Problem is, it's still in its earlier stages, the apps were a little shaky for me, and I could only start up a few programs. I'll need to go into that more.

One of the problems I read about, while searching around, with BCIS is that some schools aren't teaching typography as much as they're just teaching how to use Word [I think this (http://www.networkworld.com/weblogs/smb/2006/012877.html) is the article - Dean Masalsky's comment, though the others gave me insight on other issues].
I fear this is kind of the same problem, and it will be a big problem if they want to teacher Word and someone tried to introduce OOo.


I'll also try to present other common technologies, such as Java. I'll probably end up using Sun's Java engine instead of GNU's, just for the sake of stability. Same thing with the flash - Adobe instead of Gnash.


About my school / district:
. We are not starting our technology system from scratch - unlike other schools that I've read about who had success in setting up an open source system. The keyword in this context is 'introduction'.
. I'm pretty sure that all computers (K-12) are now running on Windows XP ('98 for the old ones). No more iMacs or what have you.
. . We got new computers at the beginning of last year for my high school's computer labs. They're nothing fancy: ~80GB hd, 1.6GHz processor, on-board graphics card (with DirectDraw / Direct3D / OpenGL either gone or disabled! :( ), 512MB of RAM, 'Built for Windows XP' - just a little better than the old computer I had, with the exception of the graphics card.
. . . I haven't tried running a LiveCD on any of them. I don't take CS anymore, and I only go the labs to practice for CS UIL some (where we always get killed in Regionals by the magnet schools).
. I have no idea what kind of vendor licensing my school / district is in. I don't know if there's a contract that locks us into using only certain products across the school. I'll need to ask the Tech Director about this.
. One of the main 'campaigns' is to get a projector into each teacher's classroom. I'll have to figure out what kind.
. Many of the teachers (mainly those teaching math/science AP) are getting tablet PCs. I did a quick search about this a while back, and it seems like there isn't any mainstream free software for written character recognition...
. . Maybe a modified version of Inkscape or another graphics program could be used for this. The most I've seen the teachers do with this is draw/scribble notes and diagrams out, nothing that simple mouse/click gestures can't take care of (assuming the drivers for the pens are working, which I saw were).
. I don't know about our financial situation. We're not poor, we're not filthy rich. However, finance shouldn't matter for the free free software that's out there. Maybe support later on.
. As for the district's web needs, the majority of the pages are static, managed using FrontPage. Shouldn't be that hard to replace the tools, but might be living heck to rearrange the content

The main concerns with a large amount of new free software would be security vs. freedom. Obviously, the school administration is going to want the students to have limited access to the resources at hand. It's a valid precaution.
The only problem is whether or not the tech admins
will knock out so much functionality that they destroy the freedom for the students...
Maybe this is just being paranoid on my part, I don't know. I just didn't enjoy not being able to access development sites because of WebSense's filter. Maybe there could be more of an open system, where input from the teachers (most importantly) and students can be easily handled.
Then again, it's at a public school. It's hard to adjust an environment for a wide variety of people, especially high schoolers. I won't lie: some of the kids in my school are complete morons (for lack of a better word). I don't know how we would protect against all abuse.
And there are the occasional crackers/hackers (the malicious kind)/script kiddies, and I don't know how exactly they would be handled.

Most lab computers have DeepFreeze on them. I tried searching for an open source alternative for this, but couldn't find anything. I don't know what layer the application works on, but I did look on the website and it said that it works for Linux, so if worse comes to worse, there shouldn't be too much to worry about - assuming OpenSUSE isn't the only *nix platform they support...
Another foreseeable problem would be updating - how that would be handled. Security is a main focus, but updating every week wouldn't be all that practical with large amounts of computers. It may be with the lab computers, but I don't know.


Other Problems:
. I really should have started doing this earlier, when I started in the Steering Committee. I probably should have
. . Plus, I should have posted this before now. The Tech Director replied at the beginning of the month, and I did the research a few weeks back. I've only just now decided to get off my bum and ask about it.
. Obviously, I won't be here next year, so I'm not sure how to ensure that anything put in place won't fall apart. I don't really know anyone who might be able to help with the adoption of free software at my school. I know one other Linux user, but I'd have to ask him about it and see if he wanted to help - haven't yet.
. Some of the kids might not have the know-how, an internet connection, or a computer to use these resources.
. . A way of distributing this might help, if this ever starts to catch on. Start out with the people in the computer classes, work your way down.
. . Find some sort of packaging system for Windows


Stuff I've looked at, considering:
[i][ Apps and Tools - From all around ]
. [See those mentioned above]
. Graphics: GIMP, Inkscape, k-3d
. CAD: QCad, CAELinux (just saw this while browsing the forums)
. Communications: Moodle
. School Admin: Focus/SIS, Open Admin, SchoolTool, Scribus
. Development: GCC, Eclipse (PDT, Aptana, ...), Mono, Code::Blocks, KDevelop, Geany, God knows what else
. . Web: Bluefish, KompoZer, some sort of WYSIWYG...
. . Probably too advanced for any mention in any small presentation... Maybe much later
. Networking / IT: Spiceworks (for school?), managing network updates?
. . I don't have any experience with this
. . Servers: ?, for the web - secure W/LAMP solutions - probably not XAMPP
. . Firewall: SquidGuard - something like WebSense for basic content filtering?, ClamAV (if Trend Micro doesn't get its way)
. Library: Evergreen, Kohla, ... (those listed here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=648456&highlight=school))
. . Porting data might be a pain
. Random: TestDisk, Launchy
[ Links - Googled "open source school" and some of this came up ]
. http://edge-op.org/grouch/schools.html - Browsed around a few of the links here
. http://www.oktech.ca/index.html - Looked at some of the solutions on the sidebar
. http://schoolforge.net/ - Found some tools for school administration
. http://k12edcom.org/
. http://www.linuxjournal.com/taxonomy/term/25
. http://www.fossed.net/
. Software directories:
. . SourceForge, LaunchPad, FSF Free Software Directory, Ohloh, Google Code, Savannah, Gna!, ...
. . http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/tools.htm - Found it while searching the forums once more


Forgive my writing skills - they kind of lack coherence - and my use of emoticons. Also, sorry for the large post. Better organization will hopefully come to me.
Took me well over three hours to try and put this post together... Lots of revision. Lots of time.
Maybe I'm delving too deep into this before it's even gone anywhere, but I want to get my thoughts and situation across.

Please correct me if my terminology isn't right. I know there is a difference between just 'open source' and 'free software', I just used them interchangeably in this context.
Also, point out any breaks in thought. I might have forgotten to continue a section.

For the future, I might just start up a small site, maybe with a secure wiki, concerning this on a free host, probably my current one. Nothing big, just to give it a little more space. If any one has an idea for a better place to put this, please mention it.

[Igh... Gotta finish up scholarship applications now, and read a book for English... Got caught up in this, now it's late... Forgot about school almost :) ]

ispy
February 26th, 2008, 06:49 AM
go for it, and tell me how it goes, because i'd like to do the same to my school as well... because it pains me to see how often the computers crash... (virii), so if you're successful, tell me... good luck...

:guitar: rock on!

macogw
February 26th, 2008, 06:57 AM
So let's say you want to set up a 16-computer lab. If you buy new computers with Windows and get a nice deal from Microsoft, they'll be around $600, $700 right? 16x$600 = $9600.

OK now how about if you got thin clients and booted them from an LTSP Edubuntu server? Well the server's gotta be pretty powerful...probably run you around $2500 to support a 16-client lab. Each thin-client (no hard drive..just a crappy CPU since it does none of the work--that's the server's job, integrated video, integrated ethernet...that's it...so basically a motherboard) can just be an old piece of junk from the lab you're updating, in which case there is no added cost, and your total is $2500. Or you get nice desktops that are made to be thin-clients with their flat screens and the little box behind the screen....so $100 per thin-client. That's $1600 on the clients + $2500 for the server = $4100.

New Windows lab: $9600
New LTSP-based lab: $4100

Hey, less than half the price!

Oh, and you've only got one server running Linux in this case. A support contract from Canonical is $250. In the case of a Windows lab, you have 16 machines and 16 support contracts. I guarantee 16 Microsoft support contracts will add up to more than $250. Also, although Linux SA's tend to be paid more than Windows ones, one Linux SA can replace 10 Windows guys...they certainly don't cost 10x more.


OK also:
Dansguardian for web filtering
iTalc for that thing where the teacher can turn all the screens into whatever's on his/her screen so all the students can see a demo...also lets the teacher spy on students, but you don't have to tell them that's there (oh come on it's not like they'll actually explore anything on a computer system enough to find that feature!)

suibhne
February 26th, 2008, 07:01 AM
I'd like to help you with this, but I need to know

1-how much TIME have you got to make your presentation?

2-what background/types make up the audience you will be presenting to?

3-Do you have any idea as to the costs currently incurred by your school or can you find this out?

4-What are the key problems identified by your school as regards technology needs?

5-Is the committee cost minded or technologically literate?

deadimp
February 29th, 2008, 06:08 AM
When I asked about time, the tech director said I could have as much as I wanted, suggesting an hour or so. As I said, I don't want to send them into some catatonic [fancy word] state.
I replied saying I would maybe use 45 minutes to an hour.

I also just recently sent another email to the Tech director with those questions and a few others.
The general scope:
. Backgrounds
. Tech savvy people
. . Their comfortable with new software / light research in free software alternatives
[ Bigger picture - infrastructure * ]
. Key problems / tech needs
. Resources available
. . Amount allocated for tech department in district / school
. Latest technology running on most computers
. Current plans for upgrading
. . PCs
. . Servers / networking
. Significant and binding contracts with vendors

* The bigger picture will be after the introduction of some basic free software.
My intent for my first presentation is to show the general-purpose software and maybe a few neat things.
I'll install most of the programs ahead of time, along with Ubuntu as the secondary OS, and depending on internet access/speed, I could show the simplicity of installing a few applications in a desktop environment.

I talked with one of my teachers and it seems like it would be okay with her to check out one of the school's laptops. If I do do that, I know I'll need some way of having temporary admin access for Windows XP. In the email I also asked about that.

I might even see if I can get one of the old dusty towers (~3-4 years old, mid-level technology at its time) from the back of the computer lab and check if it can work. This could show compatability with existing systems and all that.

macogw >> I'll be sure to present that as an idea. I had never really knew that kind of method could be used.

deadimp
February 29th, 2008, 06:20 AM
[Forgot to add this]
When I was talking to that teacher (my old computer science teacher), she said that one big problem is control that teachers [don't] have.
She talked about how, if she wanted to install new software across the comptures in the lab, she would have to contact the Tech Admin to come and do that work, which took time since a request had to be made and all that.
She spoke of one school district that seemed to be able to manage it a little better - the teachers had more control, and there was more input from the students.

So I'm guessing the conflicting flow of control goes from Tech Admins to Teachers to Students. The tech admins don't want to entrust power with the teachers, and obviously no one wants to entrust power with the students.
I know that this must be a common problem, and it's not only rooted in an education system. It's the whole chain of authority thing: where the blame falls if something goes wrong, and whose job security it could threaten in that case.
It makes for a pretty large mess of things.

I'm not sure what I'm getting at here, though - it's late once again.
Maybe going back to the whole 'freedom' part of free software in schools.
Is there any proven system to relax restrictions on all sides while keeping security and structure?

macogw
February 29th, 2008, 06:42 AM
You can configure sudo on a per-user, per-command basis. If you want the teachers to be able to run updates and add software, but *nothing else*, and the students can only mount/unmount flash drives, floppy disks, and CDs, that's fine.

elpK12_lnx
March 1st, 2008, 05:59 PM
You are one cool dude - The task of trying to share your knowledge and enthusiasm for something that is "different" is commendable. The fact that what you are trying to accomplish is "FREE", in my experience, makes it harder than what it ought to be (yes, weird!)

Both your Technology Department and your Teachers are used to Micro$oft solutions and applications on the one hand, and at throwing lots of money at whatever is new. So you are starting with two strikes.

A pointed out here, you have two areas: one is the applications you can use on top of XP (FOSS - Free and Open Source Software) and two, the possible use of a FREE operating system such as the ones from this forum. In your position, I would suggest you make step one your immediate and perhaps mid-range goal, and then, as your long term address goal two.

For goal one I would acquaint myself with sites like http://tinyurl.com/2tutyv and http://tossfoundation.org. These sites will point you in the direction of http://www.theopendisc.com/education/ and similar sites, where you can obtain an .ISO image that then you can distribute/burn for all who need/want it. Their CD is rather complete - it comes with a nice illustrative interface, where users can explore features and see screenshots of the software they might want to install.

Perhaps the most difficult part of all is persuading Technology trainers that the software available via FOSS is every bit as robust and good as off the shelf products (and in some cases even better). For that you will need their buy-in and support. In my own case it has taken years of doing small demos and constant promotion to achieve any significant status, where principals even know that such possibility (mayor savings) exists.

Once the concept of Open Source is more accepted, then you might study Thin Clients (alhough K12LTSP labs might be a separate issue) and begin deploying XX_ubuntu on desktops or dual partitions.

Feel free to contact me off list - my email is at http://links.episd.org/
Cheers

fatality_uk
March 1st, 2008, 06:28 PM
Hi deadimp.

I had a thread about this a while ago and a few people have been chasing me about it. I am working on a project much the same as yourself. To introduce FOSS/Linux into the schools system here in the UK.

I am currently finishing draft one of my presentation document. Its a big document so I need to narrow some of the concepts and thoughts down to be concise and powerful. Once I had done this, I will be more than happy for you to use any of the research I have conducted and the conclusions.

Best of luck in your endevour. Hope you make changes!

suibhne
March 2nd, 2008, 09:29 PM
if you need some numbers to impress them with take a look at

http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html

deadimp
March 3rd, 2008, 06:46 AM
Thank you all for the tips!

elpK12_lnx >> Those links are extremely helpful! Best part is, they're in Texas! I'll be able to show the Committee resources and an example that's close to home.

fatality_uk >> Think I found the thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=669553
I need to go back and read through the posts more thoroughly, but what I've seen there can help me a lot.
The scariest part in that topic was the post where Namtabmai talked about the whole Mac-misusage problem... I'm not exactly sure if that's happening here, and I'm not sure how I'd go about finding that out...

Mike'sHardLinux
March 3rd, 2008, 07:18 AM
deadimp,

If you are in or near the Richardson/Plano area and would like some help, I would be glad to help out. I could help out with planning and/or implementation or even if you just want another FOSS/Linux user to bounce ideas off of.

What's your time frame for being ready for your presentation? Days, weeks, etc...?

deadimp
March 4th, 2008, 12:01 AM
I'll be making the presentation on April 3rd. It was going to be sooner, but it got rescheduled because it was originally during Spring Break.

Thanks for the offer. I'll be sure to post here or contact you if I think I've got any other ideas.

deadimp
March 5th, 2008, 05:22 AM
Should I present Wine under Ubuntu?
What order should I present it? - I'm thinking mostly at the end.

I recently figured out how to work it, and spent/wasted the last few hours just playing around with random programs I had on my Windows partition (which may have corrupted a few things...). While I was screwing around, this thought came to me.
So, would it be a good idea for me to show Wine at this presentation?
My attempt at a analysis:

Pros:

In case there's some random program that has no FOSS alternative, it can be used [of course].
It would reveal the wide variety of applications in Linux and FOSS in general. It may not be the 'tipping point' for the range of available applications, but it could certainly contribute to it.

Cons:

The teachers might miss the point entirely, thinking that Wine is the only way to go and that generally using another operating system is pointless, or something along those lines. - I think I will be able to counter this train of thought by making sure that they know about the cross-platform / FOSS 'alternative' applications.
It's not perfect. It might make a negative impact on them if it can't run their favorite program. Then again, this goes back to the first con presented.


If I were to present it, I would only spend about 5 minutes or so. It's nowhere even near the main focus.

zmjjmz
March 5th, 2008, 05:51 AM
I think you should show its use only when an FOSS alternative is not available/suitable.
Focusing on native FLOSS gives the teachers a better impression of what the Linux application landscape is like, as it is not bleak.

ubuntu27
March 5th, 2008, 06:02 AM
You should mention Moodle (http://moodle.org/). Moodle is a course management system (CMS) that is Open Source.

If you go to college you will most likely to encounter to a software called BlackBoard that has the same functionalities as Moodle, only that it is expensive and closed sourced. My college uses it.

BlackBoard and Moodle offers many useful funtionalities.

1) The students can check their own current grades online trough Moodle

2) Students can upload homework using Moodle
7
3) Teachers can set a expiration date for each assignment. (No more uploads allowed after this expiration date)

4) Once a homework or a test is done by the student, it is automatically reflected on the teacher's account, which allows the teacher to see, verify, and grade the assignment.

5) Teachers can post a "bulletin" news that every student or every student on a particular class can receive the message. [Reminder: Your assignment is due tomorrow! ]

6) Teachers can create "online" test. And the student can take the test and save it so they can continue later.

7) Every student will have an account and a e-mail system. Teacher's life becomes easer as they won't have to guess whose e-mail is "pretty4you@manly.com"

And more!


http://moodle.org/

macogw
March 5th, 2008, 06:39 AM
You should mention Moodle (http://moodle.org/). Moodle is a course management system (CMS) that is Open Source.

If you go to college you will most likely to encounter to a software called BlackBoard that has the same functionalities as Moodle, only that it is expensive and closed sourced. My college uses it.

BlackBoard and Moodle offers many useful funtionalities.

1) The students can check their own current grades online trough Moodle

2) Students can upload homework using Moodle
7
3) Teachers can set a expiration date for each assignment. (No more uploads allowed after this expiration date)

4) Once a homework or a test is done by the student, it is automatically reflected on the teacher's account, which allows the teacher to see, verify, and grade the assignment.

5) Teachers can post a "bulletin" news that every student or every student on a particular class can receive the message. [Reminder: Your assignment is due tomorrow! ]

6) Teachers can create "online" test. And the student can take the test and save it so they can continue later.

7) Every student will have an account and a e-mail system. Teacher's life becomes easer as they won't have to guess whose e-mail is "pretty4you@manly.com"

And more!


http://moodle.org/
The software isn't Blackboard's big thing. You know the ID cards the schools that use Blackboard have? You know how they work for vending machines and laundry facilities and stores and stuff? That's Blackboard's cashcow.

ubuntu27
March 5th, 2008, 08:19 PM
The software isn't Blackboard's big thing. You know the ID cards the schools that use Blackboard have? You know how they work for vending machines and laundry facilities and stores and stuff? That's Blackboard's cashcow.

Oh! I didn't know that. We don't have that BlackBoard's ID card in the college that I attend to.

Well, I think Moodle (http://moodle.org/) is still useful. The OP of this thread is in High School, they don't need such a extravagant features such as ID.

fatality_uk
March 5th, 2008, 08:38 PM
Should I present Wine under Ubuntu?
What order should I present it? - I'm thinking mostly at the end.

I recently figured out how to work it, and spent/wasted the last few hours just playing around with random programs I had on my Windows partition (which may have corrupted a few things...). While I was screwing around, this thought came to me.
So, would it be a good idea for me to show Wine at this presentation?
My attempt at a analysis:

Pros:

In case there's some random program that has no FOSS alternative, it can be used [of course].
It would reveal the wide variety of applications in Linux and FOSS in general. It may not be the 'tipping point' for the range of available applications, but it could certainly contribute to it.

Cons:

The teachers might miss the point entirely, thinking that Wine is the only way to go and that generally using another operating system is pointless, or something along those lines. - I think I will be able to counter this train of thought by making sure that they know about the cross-platform / FOSS 'alternative' applications.
It's not perfect. It might make a negative impact on them if it can't run their favorite program. Then again, this goes back to the first con presented.


If I were to present it, I would only spend about 5 minutes or so. It's nowhere even near the main focus.

To be honest I'd stay away from WINE. Trying to explain the WINE is not an emulator and that it's a Windows API layer is just going to confuse the matter. Stay with FOSS where possible. Add a 30 second section saying under certain circumstances and with the appropriate licenses, Linux can be made to run Windows software if there are not any feasible alternatives.

Use http://www.osalt.com/ to show that for many applications there is a workable FOSS solution and often with a very small learning curve to adapt to the new application.

billgoldberg
March 5th, 2008, 09:52 PM
I would not tell them about wine.

For reason 1 you made.

suibhne
March 6th, 2008, 02:23 AM
You should mention Moodle (http://moodle.org/). Moodle is a course management system (CMS) that is Open Source.

If you go to college you will most likely to encounter to a software called BlackBoard that has the same functionalities as Moodle, only that it is expensive and closed sourced. My college uses it.

BlackBoard and Moodle offers many useful funtionalities.

1) The students can check their own current grades online trough Moodle

2) Students can upload homework using Moodle
7
3) Teachers can set a expiration date for each assignment. (No more uploads allowed after this expiration date)

4) Once a homework or a test is done by the student, it is automatically reflected on the teacher's account, which allows the teacher to see, verify, and grade the assignment.

5) Teachers can post a "bulletin" news that every student or every student on a particular class can receive the message. [Reminder: Your assignment is due tomorrow! ]

6) Teachers can create "online" test. And the student can take the test and save it so they can continue later.

7) Every student will have an account and a e-mail system. Teacher's life becomes easer as they won't have to guess whose e-mail is "pretty4you@manly.com"

And more!


http://moodle.org/

yeah, moodle is excellent - I've used it in catalonia and extramadura - its the predominate method there -take a look at this: http://www.humboldt.edu/~jdv1/moodle/all.htm
you'll find moodle 'wins' slightly in respect of user satisfaction

DeadSuperHero
March 6th, 2008, 03:11 AM
I'm just going to recommend some of my old threads, they might provide some insight.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=609272

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=648456

Those have got some great apps, CMS'es, and such listed.

deadimp
March 8th, 2008, 06:35 AM
A while ago I heard that our school district will be making some sort of storage network for the students, and I just know remembered to mention this. I don't really know that much about it, though. I can't remember how long ago I heard about it, and if anything's really been done.
As another random question, are there any software packages that could handle this sort of task? Should I even bother investigating this?


I'm going to plan on presenting a few web applications, especially since they've been suggested here. I'll just be showing a simple server installation, and then going more specifically into what all there is. Moodle for education, Drupal, WordPress, and a few other general CMS's.

Thanks for the additional info! I'm looking into them right now...

macogw
March 8th, 2008, 11:16 AM
A while ago I heard that our school district will be making some sort of storage network for the students, and I just know remembered to mention this. I don't really know that much about it, though. I can't remember how long ago I heard about it, and if anything's really been done.
As another random question, are there any software packages that could handle this sort of task? Should I even bother investigating this?


I'm going to plan on presenting a few web applications, especially since they've been suggested here. I'll just be showing a simple server installation, and then going more specifically into what all there is. Moodle for education, Drupal, WordPress, and a few other general CMS's.

Thanks for the additional info! I'm looking into them right now...
Storage network? Like network drives? Just setup Samba and NFS. NFS will make Linux talk to other *nixes (like OSX or other Linuxes), and Samba talks to Windows.

deadimp
March 8th, 2008, 07:40 PM
Should I also try and show them server software that could manage this for them?
Or leave that for another day?

deadimp
March 20th, 2008, 03:55 AM
I received a reply from the tech director two days ago concerning those questions.

Here are the answers, some paraphrased (I'm not going to include all of the information):

Attendance << Various community members from both business and education in addition to some school district staff members.
Tech savviness << Most are savvy with technology. Two of the members are heavy into technology personally and professionally.
He couldn't really say anything about the other members' comfort levels - I need to ask them
Key Problem << Funding
Funding << Yearly: District receives around $470K for technology from state, $40K for Title 2d., ~$470K through E-Rate program, Totaled is around $1.7M excluding salaries. There is no special budget for each individual school - along technology lines, I guess.
Latest technology running on computers - Mostly Win 200 or XP
Plans for upgrading << Around $4M set aside by District Board for upgrading teacher, admin, and student PCs. Software: Continually upgrading instructional software, with ongoing evalutation/approval. Most PCs purchased will have XP Pro and Office 2007.
Networking << Last year servers were virtualized - ~100 virtual servers on 7 physical boxes. Upgrading Ethernet switches as new phone systems are installed. Wireless networks in place on 14 campuses.
Thin-clients << Tried an experiment a year ago, but most of the software didn't work in that environment. Preparing for another test this coming summer in training labs.
Licensing << There are some multi-year contracts in place on some instructional software packages and things like anti-virus software, spam blockers, etc.


I'm not sure what kind of analysis I can make for this information at the moment.
I still have much to research, and I need to start putting together my presentation.

deadimp
March 26th, 2008, 03:55 PM
In the presentation, should I even remotely try to get into the politics of free software / open source, maybe even trying to explain the difference? Or just do the quick definition overview (ie. saying freeware isn't free software, etc) to avoid misinformation?
If I should talk about the politics, should I try to explain DRMs? I'm kind of sketchy on this area, though... I would probably need a concrete example of something prominent that DRM restricts in this area (talking about DVD players might not be the best thing...).
Should I briefly mention the Trend Micro / ClamAV debacle?

I know they're going to be there for what will essentially be a software demonstration. I just want to make sure there's some sort of background they can get introduced to, just so they know there's more to consider than just a price tag. I don't want to throw anything radical at them, because I know that will either confuse them or turn them away.
I was reading Eric Raymond's "Shut Up And Show Them The Code" article and it made me think about this a little more.


I'm slowly starting to pull my presentation togother. I'm in the process of designing a basic slide show in OO Impress for the information stuff - I'm not going to be placing screenshots or anything, because I will demonstrate them 'in action.'
I'll end up uploading this somewhere and updating occasionally, I have space on my current hosting account, and the servers seem to be getting more stable, so that shouldn't be much of a problem.

EDIT: Browsed the forums for about 2 minutes and found something useful: http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/2007/07/18/open-source-for-non-programmers/ under the topic "Why Linux for general users?"

deadimp
April 4th, 2008, 11:32 PM
Just had the presentation yesterday, and it went pretty well. I arrived there around 25 minutes after the meeting had started, but that was because I had to leave school and go through traffic - I had already told them that I wouldn't be able to make it at that time.

This is the first time I've done something like this (introducing software before a large group of people [~15-20]), and I'm not much of a salesman. My 'technique' left something to be desired, but I feel I got the basic concepts of FOSS across.

I was able to introduce the main two desktop applications, Firefox and OpenOffice, under Windows and briefly under Ubuntu, but I fear I did not do them the justice they're due. I was able to show Inkscape, and a little Ubuntu (which was a bad idea since I didn't go too deep into it).
With Firefox I / we talked about its security, showed how easy it was to install add-ons, such as Firebug, Taboo (which really impressed them), AdBlock, and Download Statusbar.
In OpenOffice I did a few things, but nothing really advanced. I showed them the presentation using Impress. In Writer I typed out a really short document, drew a table, added a picutre, and showed the compatibility with Word. I don't think I emphasized the other tools enough, though. I didn't show them Calc, Draw, or Base...

One bad problem came up when I tried to install Moodle under Ubuntu. I had installed it earlier that morning and got it to work, but for some stupid reason I decided to uninstall it and show them how easy it is to install. Well, when I tried to install it at the presentation, it wouldn't find the Moodle data directory... I still haven't figured that out yet.
Next time, I'll just preinstall everything on one computer, and maybe show off installing it on another.

An semi-awkward thing that arose is that a proprietary software developer was on the committee - I knew this beforehand. Luckily, I didn't go deep into the politics. I was also sure to introduce some 'business models' in open source, to show that revenue could be achieved. He did not make it difficult for me, and at times he actually helped me. However, there were some questions that he had asked that I simply couldn't answer - mainly because I'm a newb in software development, be it open source or proprietary.

At the meeting I had three computers: one laptop and two PCs (old ones from around my house). I used the laptop for the presentation, since it was more powerful than the PCs, and I didn't really use the towers, except one of them to show off the remote desktop feature of Ubuntu, which was probably something I shouldn't have focused on.
I had planned to show them 7,10 on one and 8.04a on another, and then install 8.04a over 7.10 to show how easy the installation process (I would do other things while it happened). Didn't get around to it...

If I do end up presenting for this committee again, I know that I should actually rehearse my presentation, and figure out exactly what I want to do. Most likely I'll practice talking to myself, line it up, and try to show it to some other friends who do stuff with technology.
Don't know if I will before I graduate, though. I'll just have to see.

Once again, thank you all for your help.

TeraDyne
April 5th, 2008, 12:18 AM
If I do end up presenting for this committee again, I know that I should actually rehearse my presentation, and figure out exactly what I want to do. Most likely I'll practice talking to myself, line it up, and try to show it to some other friends who do stuff with technology.
Don't know if I will before I graduate, though. I'll just have to see.

If you've got a camera that can do video (like my Samsung S730), and can transfer the video to your PC, you could practice your presentation and upload it online to (possibly) get comments from others. That was a tip that a friend of mine gave me, anyway.