Getting a Mac

[LaRoza]

My posts on this forum have indicated I am planning on getting a Mac someday, but disapprove of the pricing.

Well, someday is very soon, as I found a used iBook and I will most likely have it soon.

I look forward to using it, and learning a new OS.

It is an older version, but that is OK. Newer doesn't always mean better, and I will eventually get a new Mac for my desktop.

I am sure I will have many questions, but I will unlikely to be asking much (you know, RTM), but I hope to join the legions of those happy with Macs, at least on the side.

[Joeb454]

I use Mac's at Uni, as we use them in the C Programming module. You should be able to adapt pretty quick I think (partly because the file structure is the same ;))

I'm not a huge fan of them, there's some things I just don't like. But I will admit they're pleasing to look at...albeit very overpriced

[hanzomon4]

Good for you, I love my Macbook Pro

[LaRoza]

I use Mac's at Uni, as we use them in the C Programming module. You should be able to adapt pretty quick I think (partly because the file structure is the same ;))

I'm not a huge fan of them, there's some things I just don't like. But I will admit they're pleasing to look at...albeit very overpriced

Getting a new computer (cheaply) is always a good thing. I was fortunate to have a laptop dropped into my...lap.

It will show me what it was like (10.1) and will either make me willing to pay more for a new one someday, or disuade me completely.

I look forward to a new OS, as Linux is all the same really, just different GUI's and package managers. A new OS will be fun, at least for a little while.

[cprofitt]

A new OS will be fun, at least for a little while.

If you can get past the crappy out-dated finder then you should really like it. There are MacPorts for the OS... though I am not sure if they go back to 10.1 or not. The last version I played with was 10.4 and I found the ports nice as I could get some familiar programs that way.

Enjoy it.

[jviscosi]

Whenever friends or relatives ask me to recommend a computer I steer them toward Macs. My wife just loves hers. (She's even more stridently anti-Windows than I am.)

[jacob01]

yea i really like the look of the macs, i have used them a bit for school stuff but i don't like how you can only run the mac os on mac hardware but its there way of marketing. i have used mac os 9 and 10 and a little of osx and it is a veryy user friendly os that is aimed at the average user.

but i totally agree with you , the reason why i don't want to buy one is because of the price, also the fact that they are less upgradable than a standard computer

my only question is why aren't you going to install linux onto it, there are ppc compatible distros that would most likely run on it?

[LaRoza]

yea i really like the look of the macs, i have used them a bit for school stuff but i don't like how you can only run the mac os on mac hardware but its there way of marketing. i have used mac os 9 and 10 and a little of osx and it is a veryy user friendly os that is aimed at the average user.

my only question is why aren't you going to install linux onto it, there are ppc compatible distros that would most likely run on it?

I may, but I have Linux on everything else. I have a really good laptop (a ThinkPad) with Linux only, a desktop with Linux and a Windows, and now a Mac soon.

I don't know the specs, and it may not be worth installing Linux.

[Incense]

I may, but I have Linux on everything else. I have a really good laptop (a ThinkPad) with Linux only, a desktop with Linux and a Windows, and now a Mac soon.

I don't know the specs, and it may not be worth installing Linux.

Linux is a bit frustrating on the power PC macs. While it does work, you don't get flash, and a few other little things that really take away from the whole experience. I would just stick with OSX. You're going to be using 10.1 though huh? That should be interesting.

[LaRoza]

Linux is a bit frustrating on the power PC macs. While it does work, you don't get flash, and a few other little things that really take away from the whole experience. I would just stick with OSX. You're going to be using 10.1 though huh? That should be interesting.

How is 10.1 comparable? Am I going to be using the equivalent of Windows 3x?

[metallicamaster3]

No. Straight up :P.

Versions 10.1-10.4 were comparable to XP.
Version 10.5 is comparable to Vista.

I strongly recommend upgrading to the latest OS it will run. 300MHz for 10.2 Jaguar --> 10.3 Panther, 400MHz for 10.4 Tiger, and 867MHz for 10.5 Leopard.

Also; I use Linux on PowerPC Macs and Intel Macs... namely, my last generation PowerBook G4 15", and my latest gen MacBook Pro 15". Both run perfectly fine, being the only hiccups on the PowerPC Mac was the touchpad and USB. That's all straightened up, and they run it beautifully.

[AlphaMack]

10.1 (Puma) is garbage. You won't find many apps that support it; the cut-off is 10.2 (Jaguar). Some of the FOSS apps require the latest and greatest, so be cautioned.

Linux PPC can be a pain to deal with if you need Java or Flash. There is always MOL, although it is ridiculous to have to load a second OS virtually just to visit a Flash site.

Personally I would stick to 10.4 (Tiger).

You can pick up some decent FOSS ports here (http://opensourcemac.org).

[metallicamaster3]

If your computer supports it, used the lastest and greatest.

[LaRoza]

10.1 (Puma) is garbage. You won't find many apps that support it; the cut-off is 10.2 (Jaguar). Some of the FOSS apps require the latest and greatest, so be cautioned.

Linux PPC can be a pain to deal with if you need Java or Flash. There is always MOL, although it is ridiculous to have to load a second OS virtually just to visit a Flash site.

Personally I would stick to 10.4 (Tiger).

You can pick up some decent FOSS ports here (http://opensourcemac.org).


If your computer supports it, used the lastest and greatest.

Well, as long as it isn't the ME or ME II of Macs, I will stick with 10.1.

Thanks for the site.

I just want it to learn Mac, I will eventually get the latest and greatest.

(I don't plan on installing Linux on this)

[metallicamaster3]

OS X has changed drastically from 10.1 to 10.5.

Heck, OS X has changed drastically from 10.1 to 10.2.

Before 10.2, Mac user's wanted to stick with OS 9. What does that tell you?

[LaRoza]

OS X has changed drastically from 10.1 to 10.5.

Heck, OS X has changed drastically from 10.1 to 10.2.

Before 10.2, Mac user's wanted to stick with OS 9. What does that tell you?

I never used OS 9, so I may have a different opinion.

As long as it works on this computer, which is very cheap in price, it will be good for learning Mac OS.

When I buy a new Mac, I will get the latest (obviously).

It probably won't be worth trying to upgrade or spend money on what I am getting.

(Money is short on my end, donations welcome :))

[metallicamaster3]

From what I hear, ThePirateBay offers free donations *hint hint* :P

[powderhound99]

I'm a big fan of the mac hardware even with the price. And OS X is really...... great it's Unix and it's easy. Best part is I've seen a couple of M.B pro's with Ubuntu on them and one with out os 10 at all. their seems to be quite a bit of documentation about it as well. I wouldn't mind having one for the almost guarantied stability to work in just to help with not having to worry about data loss (BACKUP) with the complex hardware available from Apple.

[LaRoza]

I just got. Trying it out.

[LaRoza]

Ok, it is a bit difficult to type with it in front of my computer...

I dearly hope Internet Explorer is not standard, and some sick joke of a previous owner. (I have learned there were several)

[aysiu]

Ok, it is a bit difficult to type with it in front of my computer...

I dearly hope Internet Explorer is not standard, and some sick joke of a previous owner. (I have learned there were several)
Safari is standard. I think you can download it off the Apple website.

[LaRoza]

Safari is standard. I think you can download it off the Apple website.

This computer is starting to make me not happy.

It is pretty, and looks good, but I can't do anything. Opera won't run (9.10 and up), there is only a crippled IE (5.1) which can't render the Apple site in a meaningful way.

If someone could give a link to the download page, I would be most grateful.

<edit>
Back on Linux

The system locked up whenever I went to the apple site, and I couldn't do anything.

I will try to get it from Linux and then transfer it will a flash drive.
</edit>

[aysiu]

You know, this may hurt to find out, but I don't think they made Safari for Mac OS X 10.1. I think version 1.0 was for Mac OS X 10.2, and it went from there.

So the inclusion of IE was not a joke--that was the browser for Puma.

[LaRoza]

You know, this may hurt to find out, but I don't think they made Safari for Mac OS X 10.1. I think version 1.0 was for Mac OS X 10.2, and it went from there.

So the inclusion of IE was not a joke--that was the browser for Puma.

Is there a real browser available for 10.1?

[aysiu]

Is there a real browser available for 10.1?
Maybe you can try Opera 5.0 or 6.0?
http://www.oldapps.com/opera.htm

[powderhound99]

um....... guys........ FireFox I mean it is the sh........

[aysiu]

um....... guys........ FireFox I mean it is the sh........
Does Firefox run on Mac OS X 10.1?

[powderhound99]

not sure of 10.1 but I know I had it running on an old ibook that ran 10.2 i think maybe even 10.1 it was a few years ago and it's long been parted out. Wish I could be more helpful but I wold give it a shot anyway. Otherwise like posted earlier I would try some of those "donations" from your favorite p2p (hope it's thepiratebay).

[aysiu]

I think Mozilla 1.5 might work on Mac OS X 10.1:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.5.1/mozilla-mac-MachO-1.5.1.dmg.gz

[metallicamaster3]

Seriously, consider upgrading to a later OS if you want ANY software to run...

[LaRoza]

I think Mozilla 1.5 might work on Mac OS X 10.1:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mozilla/releases/mozilla1.5.1/mozilla-mac-MachO-1.5.1.dmg.gz

It stops for no reason and gives and error.

Opera 7.50 works, but that is when Opera was bad. (Ads)

Still, if this is Mac OS X when it was bad, it must be nice now.

The interface is quite pretty (now I know why Mac users made fun of Windows), and it is simple to use. Of course, it is no Linux, but it would be very good for those that want simplicity and ease of use, if they are willing to sacrifice the ability to customize and tweak.

[LaRoza]

um....... guys........ FireFox I mean it is the sh........

I am an Opera user by nature.


Seriously, consider upgrading to a later OS if you want ANY software to run...

Is there an easy way to upgrade? I don't mind paying money if it isn't a lot.

[LaRoza]

The Mozilla browser works and is good. (Finally, tabs and a modern browser...)

Now need to get gcc and Python.

[schauerlich]

Is there an easy way to upgrade? I don't mind paying money if it isn't a lot.

From 10.n to 10.n+1 is pretty easy, although I'm not sure where you'd find copies of 10.2 to buy. EBay would be my best guess.

[powderhound99]

I am an Opera user by nature.



Is there an easy way to upgrade? I don't mind paying money if it isn't a lot.

Been a big fan of Firefox for some time now but i understand once you find a browser you like might as well stick with it.

I still think with the price of the HW and support (non forums) as well as the fact that it uses Unix but cuts out a lot of the great things about Unix you I would try T.P.B as I suggested earlier.

Also Apple has a pretty good forum (http://www.apple.com/support). T.S agents get to see a bit more they always told us the customer can see 90+% of what we could but I think it was more like 80+% which isn't to terrible I blame this on their subcontractor (THAT IS ALL OPINION)

I really love O.S x and would pay for a brand new release on a newer machine but not on yours.

[metallicamaster3]

From 10.1 to the latest? I wouldn't think so. Maybe 10.2 --> 10.3 --> 10.4, but probably not 10.1 --> 10.4.

You would have to install a fresh Operating System... which IMO isn't any real loss :-P

10.0 --> 10.4 are off the shelves now that 10.5 out. But... *cough* there are always alternatives..

[LaRoza]

From 10.1 to the latest? I wouldn't think so. Maybe 10.2 --> 10.3 --> 10.4, but probably not 10.1 --> 10.4.

You would have to install a fresh Operating System... which IMO isn't any real loss :-P

10.0 --> 10.4 are off the shelves now that 10.5 out. But... *cough* there are always alternatives..

I am probably not going to upgrade it.

$75 is low enough to be non optimal. (That is what I am going to pay)

I did get Mozilla, which is good enough (has tabs at least).

[metallicamaster3]

Heck, shouldn't be any shame in getting a later OS the alternate way...not like Apple is losing $$$ on older releases, right? :P

[powderhound99]

That and I just found this little tidbit........
story (http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/08/02/28/2339246.shtml) from slashdot

now I've seen thing that are sensationalized but I always feel I have a good overall idea of whats going on because of their stories.

[Murrquan]

The Mozilla dev who wrote the original article actually corrected the Slashdot posters ... he doesn't think Apple did it deliberately, he just thinks they were being sloppy.

[LaRoza]

The Mozilla dev who wrote the original article actually corrected the Slashdot posters ... he doesn't think Apple did it deliberately, he just thinks they were being sloppy.

Is this thread being hijacked? There is no Safari on 10.1...

I wish it were though, anything is better than IE 5.1.

[handy]

Is this thread being hijacked? There is no Safari on 10.1...

I wish it were though, anything is better than IE 5.1.

LaRoza, will your new machine work with Panther?

[baxterdog]

Well, the inside story is that mac is just linux with a pretty shell on it, hah hah.

BTW, macs are great. don't flame me. The hardware is expensive though. My $500 laptop with an awesome OS (ubuntu) is running great! My mom's macbook is pretty cool though too.

[LaRoza]

LaRoza, will your new machine work with Panther?

Maybe, I don't know. I am not going to put any money into this, so it doesn't really matter at the moment.

[AlphaMack]

As far as browsing in 10.1, IE was actually the standard. However, it was a crappy port from OS 9. OmniWeb 4 and Chimera/Camino were the favored browsers at the time with the Mozilla suite to a lesser extent.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that there is a supported browser for 10.1 at this time.

[LaRoza]

As far as browsing in 10.1, IE was actually the standard. However, it was a crappy port from OS 9. OmniWeb 4 and Chimera/Camino were the favored browsers at the time with the Mozilla suite to a lesser extent.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that there is a supported browser for 10.1 at this time.

Mozilla works well in it.

[hanzomon4]

Well, the inside story is that mac is just linux with a pretty shell on it, hah hah.

BTW, macs are great. don't flame me. The hardware is expensive though. My $500 laptop with an awesome OS (ubuntu) is running great! My mom's macbook is pretty cool though too.

No... not really at all

What do you hope to learn on OSX the unixy bits or just the "mac way" of personal computing? Upgrade if you got the pockets for it!!

[wheredidrealitygo]

If you do happen to upgrade/get a newer version of the OS, I would recommend looking into WebKit (http://webkit.org), seeing as it's an OSS project of an optimized Safari, and works *VERY* fast, based on khtml instead of gecko.

[LaRoza]

If you do happen to upgrade/get a newer version of the OS, I would recommend looking into WebKit (http://webkit.org), seeing as it's an OSS project of an optimized Safari, and works *VERY* fast, based on khtml instead of gecko.

Thanks to a thoughtful person on this forum, I will be getting 10.3.

Thanks for the recommendation, I will try it out.

(I will likely use the latest Opera, as usual though)

[metallicamaster3]

I can send you my set of Tiger installation CDs, free of charge, being if you live in the United States.

[hanzomon4]

FF 3 beta 3 rocks on the mac and is pretty.... Shira shows a lot of promise as well

[andrewjoy]

Its always fun to try a new os / device but i would buy 10.4 if i where you, you will not get the full mac experiance with 10.1 it would be like trying to evaluate Vista running NT4.

[metallicamaster3]

He is getting 10.2., 10.3, and 10.4, from yours truly :)

[andrewjoy]

10.4 will prob be best for that older mac 10.5 is nice yes but its not a huge upgrade form 10.4.

[LaRoza]

10.4 will prob be best for that older mac 10.5 is nice yes but its not a huge upgrade form 10.4.

10.5 doesn't support the PowerPC G3, 10.4 does.

My thanks go out to metallicamaster3 and the others who have been most helpful in easing me into the Mac world.

[scramasax]

Well, the inside story is that mac is just linux with a pretty shell on it, hah hah.

BTW, macs are great. don't flame me. The hardware is expensive though. My $500 laptop with an awesome OS (ubuntu) is running great! My mom's macbook is pretty cool though too.

Mach/FreeBSD with a pretty shell on perhaps ...

http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/misc/osxinternals/

But in truth "pretty" is a little dismissive. Even if aesthetics were not important to users, design, which is more than just aesthetics and something Apple are very good at, is. Besides, there's stuff like QuickTime and Quartz:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_(graphics_layer)

that are well worth having. Microsoft had nothing like the latter till a decade later when Vista was launched.

[metallicamaster3]

I concur. Leopard is a HUGE update from Tiger. IMHO, it's a whole new Operating System. I personally think that Apple could've/should've released this as "Mac OS XI 11.0 Leopard"

Then again that's a b!tch to type...

[handy]

I concur. Leopard is a HUGE update from Tiger. IMHO, it's a whole new Operating System. I personally think that Apple could've/should've released this as "Mac OS XI 11.0 Leopard"

Then again that's a b!tch to type...

We have a Powerbook that came with 10.3, saw no need to upgrade to 10.4, really liked what we saw with 10.5 & upgraded the Powerbook, & ended up with a couple of new macs to boot.

I think they could have got away with calling Leopard OS XI. I wonder what they will have in store for us by the time another 5 versions have gone by?

[scramasax]

I wonder what they will have in store for us by the time another 5 versions have gone by?

I hope there'll be a ZFS filesystem pretty soon.

HFS+ seems to be fairly broken. To quote Mr. Torvalds:


OS X in some ways is actually worse than Windows to program for. Their file system is complete and utter crap, which is scary.

What Linux or *BSD user ever needed to pay $100 for a program just to keep their filesystem on the straight and narrow?

http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/

I'm not knocking OS X. It's great to interact with at the GUI level, and other vendors could learn a lot from Apple. It's just that there seem to be a few loose wires underneath ...


Actually, what I'd really like is if I could use ZFS to format USB drives in and have them read to or written to anywhere by any OS. At the moment I have to use FAT32.

[metallicamaster3]

I, too, was disappointed when ZFS wasn't available for Leopard. I've seen so much good come out of it with Solaris.

[hanzomon4]

I too would love to have zfs... to match my zsh

[3rdalbum]

What Linux or *BSD user ever needed to pay $100 for a program just to keep their filesystem on the straight and narrow?

http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/

Oooo... you've touched one of my raw nerves. That's one of the things that I don't miss from the Mac.

On Linux, I know my data will be safe.

On the Macintosh, I occasionally would boot up one day and find that I was getting the "blinking system folder" icon. So I'd boot up with the Diskwarrior CD, run the program, and it would end off reporting that everything was good again. I'd go back to the internal drive, it would work fine, and then I'd discover that 5 of my MP3s were now chopped in half and roughly a third of my favourite pictures were damaged.

Three months later, the disk would crash again, with the same result. A month after that, the disk would crash and neither Diskwarrior nor Nortons could do anything about it.

It probably wasn't Diskwarrior's fault, as Norton's did basically the same thing. But the filesystem is unreliable, and should be replaced with something fresh and professional. And that same filesystem should immediately be put into iPods too, because they have exactly the same problems!

[handy]

Oooo... you've touched one of my raw nerves. That's one of the things that I don't miss from the Mac.

On Linux, I know my data will be safe.

On the Macintosh, I occasionally would boot up one day and find that I was getting the "blinking system folder" icon. So I'd boot up with the Diskwarrior CD, run the program, and it would end off reporting that everything was good again. I'd go back to the internal drive, it would work fine, and then I'd discover that 5 of my MP3s were now chopped in half and roughly a third of my favourite pictures were damaged.

Three months later, the disk would crash again, with the same result. A month after that, the disk would crash and neither Diskwarrior nor Nortons could do anything about it.

It probably wasn't Diskwarrior's fault, as Norton's did basically the same thing. But the filesystem is unreliable, and should be replaced with something fresh and professional. And that same filesystem should immediately be put into iPods too, because they have exactly the same problems!

From what I've been reading the Apple file systems are inherently weak.

I do look forward to Apple solving the problem before it costs us (my wife & I) time.

I tend to think that the Apple OS developers have a plan.

Bring it on?

[Peter Mount]

From what I've been reading the Apple file systems are inherently weak.

I do look forward to Apple solving the problem before it costs us (my wife & I) time.

I tend to think that the Apple OS developers have a plan.

Bring it on?

Are there online articles on this? Although I suppose all the tech magazines have online articles now so maybe that's a redundant question.

Have fun.

[MONODA]

Before 10.2, Mac user's wanted to stick with OS 9. What does that tell you?
the reason why they wanted to stick with os 9 when os X first came out is because sooo much software wouldnt work on it, not because it was a bad system (never used it myself though).
I have to say, macs have always looked awesome. I havent used them for more than 2 hours in total; i have always wanted to try them out for more than that. I think you will like 10.4 the most, it is very stable.
EDIT: something I noticed when I was using macs was that you really cant do much without iwork and ilife... You also have to go searching for programs. Those are the only things I dont like about macs though; I think it's because ubuntu has spoiled me with being free and with APT XD.

[scramasax]

Are there online articles on this? Although I suppose all the tech magazines have online articles now so maybe that's a redundant question.

Well, here's one little interesting snippet.

Apple has a cloaked directory where unmentionable things go one.

Basically, it seems whatever goes on there is necessary to try to cope with the fact that, on the one hand, HFS+ isn't a Unix file system, and, on the other, Apple has to be "real, true-blue, POSIX-compliant, bona fide Unix" for Unix scripts to work and for it to get its Unix-certification from the Open Group:

http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3555.htm

So anyway, the directory has the delightfully wacky name;

\342\220\200\342\220\200\342\220\200\342\220\200HF S+ Private Data

And here's the story:

http://rixstep.com/2/1/20070829,00.shtml

Look for the section entitled "HFS horseshit".

The Mac developer who wrote those that articles is, as you will see if you read it, a (possibly irreparably) angry and alienated individual. He seems to be constitutionally incapable of looking on the bright side of anything anyway -- but, boy, is he angry about HFS+.

There's a calmer and more in depth look here:

http://rixstep.com/2/2/20070903,00.shtml

You can get into that directory from the command line ... but perhaps best not.

[3rdalbum]

the reason why they wanted to stick with os 9 when os X first came out is because sooo much software wouldnt work on it, not because it was a bad system (never used it myself though).

Apple, to their credit, handled the changeover very well. The "Carbon" framework made sure that OS 9 applications could be made OS X-native in a short space of time, and the resulting program would work on OS 9 and OS X. There's also an OS 9 virtual machine environment built-into PPC OS X, for non-Carbon applications.

Compatibility was very good.

But, just like Microsoft with Vista, Apple changed the entire look and feel, and they managed to make the thing so terribly bloaty by 2001 standards. Mac users had been pressing Command-N to create new folders for 16 years, and suddenly Apple changed it to Command-Shift-N. They initially removed volume icons from the desktop (reinstated after much protest) removed the Control Strip, changed the functionality of the Apple menu, and introduced the Dock to try and replace them all. Of course, the dock can't replace the application switcher, control strip, Apple menu, and popup folders.

At that point, many Mac users switched to Windows. After holding out for a long time, I switched to Linux. The Mac users who stayed learned to live without the control strip and popup folders.

[scramasax]

Apple, to their credit, handled the changeover very well. The "Carbon" framework made sure that OS 9 applications could be made OS X-native in a short space of time, and the resulting program would work on OS 9 and OS X.

But this is precisely where OS X's schizophrenic nature arises. This is why it must use HFS+ (and why UFS, which is similar to Linux's ext, has finally been deprecated and dropped). This is why it is flaky. One the one hand, OS X is supposed to be Unix; on the other, all this Mac OS stuff has been woven into it.

One understands that Apple may not have had much choice about this, because big ISV's (notably Adobe and Microsoft) were not prepared to re-write their software to run on the NeXT frameworks/Unix. But it does leave question marks about what OS X really is and whether you can really trust your data to it. It would probably have been better if Apple had been able to break backwards compatibility -- or rather not engineer in compatibility with a totally different OS to the one they were, ostensibly, using.

Here's one problem: Unix, and Unix-like OSes, like Linux, use hard links (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_link) extensively, but HFS+ assumes there is only one file name for each file information record. Apple need a workaround in order to support hard links. Hence that "HFS+ Private Data" directory. The Finder uses an HFS+ "Finder flags" to hide that directory, namely, kIsInvisible. It also has kNameLocked set.

[MONODA]

@ LaRoza: I am pretty sure you knew this, but try pressing the F9, F10 and F11 keys. If you get tiger then try F12 as well. F9 will scale (known as expose in mac), F10 will scale windows of the same application, F11 will show the desktop and F12 will bring up the widgets layer.

[metallicamaster3]

s/widgets layer/Dashboard ;)

[LaRoza]

Installing 10.4 now. Thank you megadethmas... er, metallicamaster3 :)

[LaRoza]

"There were errors in the installation, please try again"

Real descriptive...

[LaRoza]

Trying again failed, (although the CD was checked fine), and at the same stage. Right at the end of the first disk.

10.2 didn't start from disk (yes, I held 'c')

I don't miss 10.1, although I did want OS X...

Getting 6.06 now.

[MONODA]

are you sure you have enough hard disk space for 10.4? I think you need to repeatidly press 'C' to boot off the cd (that is what I had to do on my brother's mac.)

[LaRoza]

are you sure you have enough hard disk space for 10.4? I think you need to repeatidly press 'C' to boot off the cd (that is what I had to do on my brother's mac.)

Yes, 10.4 did boot (the disk) and pressing 'c' is the way to do it. And it said there was enough space.

[LaRoza]

Ok, after failing with OS X (not blaming it, it wouldn't install properly) I am putting it on hold (not forever).

I then started my hunt for an OS...

It seems the G3 Macs have Linux issues, but after hours of trying (it takes a long time to install on this thing), I have gotten a good, working OS on it.

Interestinly, it is the first Linux distro I ever used, good old 6.06 (but for PPC).

Thanks for the support and effort, I will attempt OS X again, and will still buy one in the future when I am richer (shouldn't be too long, I just sent the money to help that Nigerian prince).

Thanks MM3, I will find uses for these disks, as I know someone else that may need them. If it fails there, then we will know it was a disk error, if not.... It is a sign from Tux that I should use Linux for now.

[rev7]

Windows 3.1 competed with Mac system 5 & 6 (and for a little while, system 7)

Think of Mac OS X.1 as X.5 lite. When the Mac went Unix, everything changed-- mostly for the better. I use OS 10.4 and Hardy and thoroughly enjoy both for different reasons. Choose your specific Mac OS X version based on processor power. Features are similar.

Cheers!



P.S. I have a PPC Mac Mini, 1.2 GHz... Runs fine. Another Linux distro you should look into is Yellow Dog Linux. I've run it on a 300mHz G3 with no trouble-- YDL is a RedHat geared toward PPC architechture.

[the.dark.lord]

are you sure you have enough hard disk space for 10.4? I think you need to repeatidly press 'C' to boot off the cd (that is what I had to do on my brother's mac.)

Just holding down 'C' works here on my iMac.

[factotum218]

Off the top of my head, i would guess that if you are running 10.1 you could get by with 10.3 and not slow to a crawl.
I would recommend 10.4, but I noticed a bit of a slow down on my old G4 PowerMac.
And that was with dual 867's.

[LaRoza]

Off the top of my head, i would guess that if you are running 10.1 you could get by with 10.3 and not slow to a crawl.
I would recommend 10.4, but I noticed a bit of a slow down on my old G4 PowerMac.
And that was with dual 867's.

I don't have 10.3. Perhaps in the future.

I am actually using the iBook now (not typing this on it, but it is in front of me and I am working on it). I have reinstalled Ubuntu 6.06 using the 'expert' mode on the alternative disk. I did the barest install I could, there weren't even man pages.

I added a few essential applications, like mc, vim, irssi and some programming tools. I edited the config files, and now have the ultimate machine.

I altered my .bashrc as well, so my prompt is:



~$


Super fast and lean.

A bit of a hassle manually typing in the /etc/apt/sources.list as the repos weren't added during the install, but I got that done.

Maybe someday I will add a GUI, but probably not.

[MONODA]

well why didnt you just use arch?

[LaRoza]

well why didnt you just use arch?

For PowerPC?

[engla]

Cool to use it without a gui. :)

But wait, there are guis! Is finch available for dapper? (finch is a ncurses/text-based equivalent of pidgin).
Then there should be some text-based rss reader. And the thing has to run nethack and cmatrix too.

I missed the post where you said which type of ibook it was. A G3 ibook I've understood. The really round model with fancy colors?

[Saint Angeles]

careful about old ibooks... my g4 ibook broke way fast and apple refused to admit there was a hardware issue (the graphics chip is held on with a dot of solder... it overheats and seperates.) i've heard of this happening to a lot of people.

[Seti]

Mac eh? Have you used OS X much? I've found it to be quite a pain in the derriere compared to linux. If you're experienced with linux, you'll find OS X pretty clunky in comparison, trust me.

I just tested out Hardy Heron beta on my dad's Macbook, and everything seemed to work quite nicely, including compiz. I bet with some work I could get everything working smooth. Yet I dunno, I can't really see the benefit of doing that versus just buying a more affordable PC laptop that would perform equally well if not better.

[Victormd]

Mac eh? Have you used OS X much? I've found it to be quite a pain in the derriere compared to linux. If you're experienced with linux, you'll find OS X pretty clunky in comparison, trust me.

I just tested out Hardy Heron beta on my dad's Macbook, and everything seemed to work quite nicely, including compiz. I bet with some work I could get everything working smooth. Yet I dunno, I can't really see the benefit of doing that versus just buying a more affordable PC laptop that would perform equally well if not better.

IMHO, though macs are among the best looking machines (ASUS has some really nice laptops as well), that's all they are. Have to agree with Seti, much better off getting a PC laptop, that performs equally well, if not better, for the same or lesser price!

[Alfa989]

Mac eh? Have you used OS X much? I've found it to be quite a pain in the derriere compared to linux. If you're experienced with linux, you'll find OS X pretty clunky in comparison, trust me.
Well, I think he should try it first, don't you think? :D

[LaRoza]

Cool to use it without a gui. :)

But wait, there are guis! Is finch available for dapper? (finch is a ncurses/text-based equivalent of pidgin).
Then there should be some text-based rss reader. And the thing has to run nethack and cmatrix too.

I missed the post where you said which type of ibook it was. A G3 ibook I've understood. The really round model with fancy colors?

Yes, I use irssi and finch on my desktop (which has a GUI). Finch isn't there for Dapper, and I am looking into gaim-text (which is what it was once called), but can't find it in the repos.

I am not going ot be using this for social reasons, but programming most likely. I am going to try Gutsy on it, as I think that would work fine. X has an issue on it, but a CLI setup shouldn't.

I use the "expert" mode, so I control everything that is installed (even kernel modules). It is so light, that "man" wasn't even installed.


Mac eh? Have you used OS X much? I've found it to be quite a pain in the derriere compared to linux. If you're experienced with linux, you'll find OS X pretty clunky in comparison, trust me.


The 10.1 version I didn't like, and the installations of 10.4 and 10.2 failed.

[gameryoshi600]

macs are pretty cool but its too pricey for me

[MONODA]

For PowerPC?
*smacks self on head* oh yeah I forgot.

[LaRoza]

*smacks self on head* oh yeah I forgot.

I would have used it otherwise though. It is made for x686 and x86-64.

[LaRoza]

Here it is, for those interested.

The plot thickens...
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7039/cimg0003px1.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0003px1.jpg)

Booting up:
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3906/cimg0004qy0.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0004qy0.jpg)

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2466/cimg0005bf3.th.jpg (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0005bf3.jpg)

Login time:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5615/cimg0006bt8.th.jpg (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0006bt8.jpg)

Prompt (note, this is a smaller image and it is difficult to see. My prompt is ~$ )
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7418/cimg0007lr8.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0007lr8.jpg)

irssi:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7109/cimg0008sv8.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0008sv8.jpg)

Lynx:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7109/cimg0008sv8.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0008sv8.jpg)

[metallicamaster3]

You know what gets me? It could go both ways, either genius or lack of thinking from apple, but all laptops from 2002 to the very last powerbook in 2005, used the exact same charger. they are all identical.

Only difference between your iBook charger and my PowerBook charger? Yours is on the right side, mine is on the left.

Oh, and LaRoza.... lol no Wireless xD

[LaRoza]

You know what gets me? It could go both ways, either genius or lack of thinking from apple, but all laptops from 2002 to the very last powerbook in 2005, used the exact same charger. they are all identical.

Only difference between your iBook charger and my PowerBook charger? Yours is on the right side, mine is on the left.

Oh, and LaRoza.... lol no Wireless xD

I didn't know that, that could come in handy (this used one is breaking it seems)

I am glad there is no wireless, as I would have no incentive to use a GUI (or find out how to get it working in CLI)

I will get myself a Mac OS X Mac when I get money.

[metallicamaster3]

Breaking? How so? Like, you have to really push it in there, and twist it until it lights up? and then when you move the computer, the slightest move interrupts the connection??

Same. problem. here.

[LaRoza]

Breaking? How so? Like, you have to really push it in there, and twist it until it lights up? and then when you move the computer, the slightest move interrupts the connection??

Same. problem. here.

Small crack on the adapter. The connection is fine though.

[MONODA]

you may want to check this out ;)
http://www.archlinuxppc.org/

[stream303]

Maybe someday I will add a GUI, but probably not.

I did a similar install on an ibook using an Ubuntu server image, and the fonts kind of drove me nuts. Bit the bullet, and installed only xorg, xterm and the lwm window manager. Done.

[MONODA]

btw did you try asking for help on mac forums, maybe on the apple website forums? They proably know more than the people here.

[LaRoza]

btw did you try asking for help on mac forums, maybe on the apple website forums? They proably know more than the people here.

Help for what?

I found all I needed in the Apple PPC forum (when it existed) for installing Ubuntu.

For OS X 10.1, I didn't like it, and it is likely that my 10.4 disk(s) had been damaged.

[hellion0]

Did you try a 10.3 disk? 10.3.9 (the highest update) is still "fairly" current as far as Mac-only software compatibility is concerned. It should run fine on that machine.

[LaRoza]

Did you try a 10.3 disk? 10.3.9 (the highest update) is still "fairly" current as far as Mac-only software compatibility is concerned. It should run fine on that machine.

I don't have that version.

[stream303]

I found all I needed in the Apple PPC forum (when it existed) for installing Ubuntu.

We're still here, just merged into one happy PPC / Intel family. :)

[LaRoza]

We're still here, just merged into one happy PPC / Intel family. :)

I know, but the forum I used doesn't exist like the Backyard.