Is Ubuntu Really That Simple?

[fourthofjuly]

Would like to have your opinion... was just wondering...

I myself acknowledge that Ubuntu is one of the most user friendly Linux distros... i have become a great fan myself...

but is it really as easy as Windows? just take the example of this forum, every minute we see users posting problems they face with their specific hardware...

even i have posted problems related to my sound, screen resolution, power management etc.

can we see in the future a version of Ubuntu that will just run out of the box such that very very few users will need to reach forums for help? maybe we can have more troubleshooting wizards to solve problems with specific hardware?

Your take please...

regards,

devang.

[oedha]

that's because of : hardware vendors have somekind of "agreement" with windows
meanwhile...linux has to struggle to make the driver for restricted hardware :)
more vendors involve in linux better ubuntu be
(only my thought...correct me if i am wrong :) )

[munch3]

For the people who have never used Linux, Ubuntu looks quite tricky, cuz theyre used to XP but generally, Ubuntu is lot more simpler than any other OS

[Squish]

My problems are no longer with video, but only with sound, and internet.

As far as it being simple?
The GUI for sure, installing applications yet, troubleshooting absolutely

I dont understand how anyone can get anything done on windows... and I hate using it now

[LaRoza]

Ubuntu is easy to use, if it works. Sometimes there are hardware problems, but I have had no trouble on my computer.

It does confuse people because it lacks non free components. The codecs really throw people off.

OpenSuSE, in my opinion, would be much easier for a new user. It has flash, java, and codecs, and I think it can use the new MS Word formats. It is prettier by default, IMO, and is a very good distro.

For the hardware detection, Ubuntu is really good (so are others). It only chokes on certain hardware, and it is not Ubuntu's fault.

Ubuntu detected my printer, scanner, webcam, wireless internet and video with no configuration or extra installations. I can't say the same for Windows...

[sumguy231]

can we see in the future a version of Ubuntu that will just run out of the box such that very very few users will need to reach forums for help?
Way easier said than done. Somebody has to write the hardware support, and until all hardware manufacturers do it themselves then it will remain difficult to keep up. Hopefully as X improves it will be easier for Ubuntu to fail gracefully against bad hardware enough for the user to at least be able to get help for it.


maybe we can have more troubleshooting wizards to solve problems with specific hardware?
Perhaps not such a bad idea. In theory, the Restricted Driver Manager will help for hardware that's not supported for licensing reasons but that's not all of the unsupported hardware.

[PurposeOfReason]

You also have to take into account this is a forum where people go to post problems. If you were to go to a Microsoft forum I'm sure it'd be quite the same.

[sumguy231]

You also have to take into account this is a forum where people go to post problems. If you were to go to a Microsoft forum I'm sure it'd be quite the same.

True. Every piece of software has problems, ever. Yes, even Ubuntu. :)

[PmDematagoda]

I actually support LaRoza partly on this. OpenSuSE has a lot of polish and it really tries to cater to the requirements of the everyday beginner(and it is doing it really well), but I still find Ubuntu to be the master in that field as of yet.

And has anyone visited the MS forums? I have, and there are only about 500 users at average, so Ubuntu Forums certainly beats that:).

[spacemonkey71]

A friend of mine recently asked my why he had to install a lot of drivers every time he re-installed Windows XP. His brother built the machine for him and he was installing from an install disk that was purchased separately from all the other components. Windows works out of the box only for pre-built systems where a vendor, such as Dell, has installed all the drivers for the hardware that came with your computer.

As more vendors offer pre-installed Linux Systems, Microsoft will have less of an advantage in this area.

[Northsider]

but is it really as easy as Windows? just take the example of this forum, every minute we see users posting problems they face with their specific hardware...

Go on a Windows support forum. You will see an equal number of help/problem posts for windows.

[fourthofjuly]

maybe users of Ubuntu need to press hardware manufacturers to provide linux drivers just like they do for Windows?

i have heard that some like Samsung and HP supply Linux drivers with their printers?

[Teber]

i once was rash enough to accept a critical update from M$. it concerned the brand new explorer 7. i checked out a ******* forum. the list of shortcomings was endless. mostly about how the new explorer malfunctioned with sites and software made by some company called Micro$oft... the worst problem was support from people in the know... who gave and advice involving a dos command which was beyond most everybody. lack of support through this forum seemed to be a major issue...

having solved a wee little hardware problem, i installed ubuntu without any fuss. i even had quite a few goodies installed, which i would have had to install separately under *******. ubuntu recognized all my hardware correctly too. that much for ubuntu being difficult in my case.

otherwise there were issues, lack of support certainly not amount them! i have since reduced use of ******* to the bare minimum and feel the happier about it. as to issues: i learned from them and i like it.

as we all know: ubuntu rocks :guitar:

[Hmarroqu]

maybe users of Ubuntu need to press hardware manufacturers to provide linux drivers just like they do for Windows?

i have heard that some like Samsung and HP supply Linux drivers with their printers?

Exactly....Why dont all of us promote that to everyone here who has had a issue with hardware...

As soon as its taken care of, the person or persons send out a simple email to the manufacturer, or better yet! A quick call...

Eventually they will add up and things will begin to be noticed when say....thousands of people just contacted the manufacturer with the same issues...

Manufacturers just need to realize that there is a growing market, especially with easy to use and install OSs like ubuntu.

Its better than just sitting around and always fixing things ourselves....

Ubuntu Is great, the only reason I dont find it easy to use is because of all this preliminary additions I have to do on top of the installation....

It is really easy and simple to install...Its a pain to set up....

Then its back to simple again when using it.

[fourthofjuly]

Go on a Windows support forum. You will see an equal number of help/problem posts for windows.

true,

but i would rate a product fantastic if users almost never have to reach out for help...

today we have more people asking questions than those answering...

one reason could be that we have become so addicted to Windows that we have never tried to learn things the tough way?

still, everyone may not have the time, energy & resources to get help for their sets of problems?

correct me if i am wrong...

regards,

devang.

[aysiu]

There are a few simple reasons why you see tech support questions here: This is a tech support forum. Likewise, you will see lost baggage complaints at the customer service center in the baggage claim area of the airport, groceries in a grocery store, and Republicans at a Republican convention. The primary sources of support for Windows users are friends/family members and the Geek Squad, not online support forums. On the other hand, the primary sources of support for Linux are forums and IRC. Windows comes preinstalled and fully supported by third-party vendors. If you buy Ubuntu preinstalled, you're likely already a Ubuntu user, not a new user migrating from Windows. Even major vendors like Dell that do sell Ubuntu preinstalled have it in some obscure part of the website so that only those looking for it will find it. There are no promotions or advertisements for it, and it's only on select models. Many questions have nothing to do with the OS being complicated or difficult. They are simply about learning something unfamiliar, much as the learning of a new language or any new subject would necessitate the learner asking many questions. I hope that helps, but it probably won't. Most likely this will just turn into another Windows v. Linux thread, which will get moved to Recurring Discussions.

[fourthofjuly]

to oedha...

indeed, but as i said, can i ask my printer manufacturer to give me the drivers & software for linux bundled just as they do it for windows? or for all future purchases, i have the choice to switch over to some other manufacturer who does so?

[aysiu]

to oedha...

indeed, but as i said, can i ask my printer manufacturer to give me the drivers & software for linux bundled just as they do it for windows? or for all future purchases, i have the choice to switch over to some other manufacturer who does so?
Yes, you can ask. Is the manufacturer going to listen? Probably not. The most successful strategy (which you hinted at in your last question) for convincing manufacturers to open or port drivers is buying from manufacturers who already do and then writing letters to those who don't, along the lines of "I really wanted to buy this printer of yours, but there are no Linux drivers for it, so I went with your competitor so-and-so instead. I hope you consider opening your driver specifications or creating Linux drivers so you don't lose more business."

Money talks. Petitions walk.

[LaRoza]

OpenSuse is better for beginners!!!! Is a http://ubuntuforums.org/images/rank_uf_staff.png saying this!!!


I actually support LaRoza partly on this. OpenSuSE has a lot of polish and it really tries to cater to the requirements of the everyday beginner(and it is doing it really well), but I still find Ubuntu to be the master in that field as of yet.


I prefer Ubuntu, but when I installed OpenSuSE 10.3 64 bit on my laptop (for several reasons, one being I wanted to use an RPM distro for learning it) I was somewhat surprised. I can see that distro being used out of the box with its defaults intact by a new user. I installed Opera 9.23 (not what I wanted), and I had flash, java, and codecs already to go.

I didn't keep the defaults of course :-) I found no flaws with the OS, although I like Synaptic better.

Ubuntu is one of my favourite Linux distros, but its philosophy may give new users trouble.

(OpenSuSE's installer was not all that great, either in my opinion)

[Happibun]

Well here I am.

I installed Ubuntu 2 days ago. The only trouble I had initially was getting my wireless connection to work, but once I got brave enough to post in the beginners forum, I got help that I could understand.

I've been wanting to get going with Linux for ages, but the things holding me back were

1: It looked hard, everywhere you look online you see people discussing hardware incompatibilities.

2: There are so many different flavours of Linux, Which do you choose?

3: Once you have Linux, there are so many different applications to do the same job, how do you choose between those?

4: Why break what is already working for you? In my case, I'm a reasonably proficient ******* user. I don't break the operating system as much as I used to, and found XP a no brainer for just getting on with things.

So why am I typing to you from a Linux machine?

The advent of Vista, and this Laptop. It was given to me without an OS on Friday, so I plumped for the first thing to hand which was the latest stable Ubuntu.

It was easy to set up. I'm talking about a mid range laptop here with a wireless chipset which needed extra drivers to manage.

I found the install just as easy as bunging on Windows, in fact in places, easier.

The only thing that holds me up is where I go to find reliable step by step information - because there is <i>soooooooo</i> much stuff out there, seemingly contradictory and by default not tailored to your set up.

Despite that, I'm enjoying it and feeling unbelievably smug.

:KS

[aysiu]

Forum staff aren't paid Ubuntu shills (or paid at all, for that matter). We are real human beings with real personal experiences and opinions all our own.

I've never used OpenSuSE, but I would never just hand a Ubuntu CD to a new user and say "Good luck installing and configuring this yourself."

For a newcomer (almost undoubtedly used to proprietary software and formats), I would recommend only one of the following options: Buy Linux preinstalled. Install Linux as virtual machine within XP. Let me set it up for you. If you're a little tech savvy, just a little, use Linux Mint or PCLinuxOS.

[TheKid965]

I'd say, for my own part, that Ubuntu isn't necessarily "easier" or "harder" to learn than Windows, just "different."

The main problem has been hardware support; the perception is that Linux in general is a couple generations behind the times because it doesn't always work with off-the-shelf hardware purchased at the corner Wally World. Concepts such as "open-source drivers" mean nothing to Joe Enduser, who just wants to use the cheap USB headphones or Bluetooth adapter he picked up for around $20 each - and if they don't work out of the box, the fault must be with Linux, and certainly not the hardware manufacturer.

It's the same with software, to go off on a tangent. The lack of shrink-wrapped boxes on store shelves creates a false impression that there is no software for Linux. (Anyone who's a PC gamer has probably heard this misguided argument more times than they care to tally.) The fact that most of the most useful *nix software is downloadable, often for free (in both senses), means almost nothing to far too many beginners, who just see shelf after shelf of Windows software (with maybe a small corner of Mac stuff) and therefore make the obvious conclusion. Years of marketplace conditioning will do that - if you can't buy it, it doesn't exist, and if you don't have to pay for it, it must not be that good. (I liken it to thrift stores. They have a seedy reputation, but you can often find some real treasures in one of those places, provided you're not put off by clutter and/or disarray. I'm typing this post right now on a keyboard I picked up from a thrift store - an IBM Model M Spacesaver, a somewhat rare variant worth about $40-50 on eBay, but purchased for $3.93. Took it home, cleaned it up, it works like a dream.)

But anyway. My experience has shown me that when most people define "ease of use," what they actually mean (whether they realize it or not) is "what they're used to." Windows has become such a standard in the world of computing, so ubiquitous in our daily lives, that it's clearly the common-denominator computer platform. Back in the days of 8-bit micros pre-loaded with BASIC, it was much the same; BASIC was and is a pretty limited language, but since every computer had a version of it, it was pretty much the only language you could find programming books for, allowing for platform variances. If those computers had come with, say, FORTRAN or Comal burned into their ROMs, we would have considered those languages "easier" than BASIC. It's a matter of how you were taught to do something, as much if not more so than being taught the thing in the first place.

Windows is the same way. It's considered easier to use and learn, not necessarily because it is, but because it's what most everyone is taught these days. Similarly, Ubuntu, being a flavor of Linux, has to overcome the perceptions of being difficult to learn and incompatible with most "real" applications, mostly because of image problems dating back to the early days of the OS. (You'd be amazed how many people still believe that Linux doesn't even have a GUI, for instance...) Perception often creates reality, even if the perception is false.

Give a neophyte computer user an Ubuntu system rather than Windows, and chances are he or she will come to consider that the Way Things Ought To Work, and therefore would find Vista harder to use.

Just my rambling thoughts on the subject, take it as you will...

[aysiu]

1: It looked hard, everywhere you look online you see people discussing hardware incompatibilities. Ubuntu Wiki Hardware Support (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport) or, better yet, Pre-installed Linux (http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=14).


2: There are so many different flavours of Linux, Which do you choose? Linux Distribution Chooser Quiz (http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/)


3: Once you have Linux, there are so many different applications to do the same job, how do you choose between those? If you're lucky enough to have picked Ubuntu, that issue shouldn't come up. Ubuntu installs by default one application per task. If you want to explore other applications later, that's your choice.


4: Why break what is already working for you? In my case, I'm a reasonably proficient ******* user. I don't break the operating system as much as I used to, and found XP a no brainer for just getting on with things. That's a good question, which is why I'm against desktop Linux evangelism. If people are fine with XP, let them use XP.


The only thing that holds me up is where I go to find reliable step by step information - because there is <i>soooooooo</i> much stuff out there, seemingly contradictory and by default not tailored to your set up. I've tried to create such a guide (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu). Let me know what you think.

[fourthofjuly]

Go on a Windows support forum. You will see an equal number of help/problem posts for windows.


There are a few simple reasons why you see tech support questions here: This is a tech support forum. Likewise, you will see lost baggage complaints at the customer service center in the baggage claim area of the airport, groceries in a grocery store, and Republicans at a Republican convention. The primary sources of support for Windows users are friends/family members and the Geek Squad, not online support forums. On the other hand, the primary sources of support for Linux are forums and IRC. Windows comes preinstalled and fully supported by third-party vendors. If you buy Ubuntu preinstalled, you're likely already a Ubuntu user, not a new user migrating from Windows. Even major vendors like Dell that do sell Ubuntu preinstalled have it in some obscure part of the website so that only those looking for it will find it. There are no promotions or advertisements for it, and it's only on select models. Many questions have nothing to do with the OS being complicated or difficult. They are simply about learning something unfamiliar, much as the learning of a new language or any new subject would necessitate the learner asking many questions. I hope that helps, but it probably won't. Most likely this will just turn into another Windows v. Linux thread, which will get moved to Recurring Discussions.

sir, i myself love being part of this forum & seeking help...

i have in fact found solutions to quite a few problems through the forum... and i am earnestly grateful to the Ubuntu community for it...

but let's not make it linux v/s. windows, but linux v/s. linux, how it can be bettered...

for example, when i installed Ubuntu, my sound just did not work b'coz of my Intel integrated sound card... i got to the forums, they helped me but it did not work ... i had to switch to windows for my music everytime?

i now have sound working (courtesy forums), but have spent so many hours for this task?

now Intel has given me the motherboard driver cd with lots of software, but for windows... had they given me the driver software for linux, this would not have been the case?

i am a bit computer-savvy, but non-techies would not even know how to hunt forums & would give up linux in frustration?

[Happibun]

Buy Linux preinstalled. Install Linux as virtual machine within XP. Let me set it up for you. If you're a little tech savvy, just a little, use Linux Mint or PCLinuxOS.

Looks like I'm doing it the hardest way then, but the point I'm making is that it's not that hard.

Steep learning curve, yes. hard, no,

I think that what it is really about is that most people don't want to think about their computers. Like a car, they just want to turn it on and go. They really don't care about how it is all happening, just that it does what they want it to for minimal effort.

From what I've seen already, Linux is not like that, you have to think about it and make choices all the time.

Plenty of people would use it fine if it was preinstalled and set up for them.

Jo

[a9bejo]

but is it really as easy as Windows?

"As Easy as Windows" for whom? There is no average computer user, just many different types of them. And the majority of PC users cannot install any operating system on it.

For me as a software engineer, Linux is much easier to use than Windows. And I spend about 3 days to make my old 17 inch monitor work with xinerama. I'm still a lot more productive with linux because I save time each day using it. Easy to use is not the same thing as installing the system.

My sister is a doctor, and she cannot install either Windows or Linux or Mac OSX on her Computer.

Most office workers do not install their computers themselves and they do not install any software. That is what System Administrators do. I guess most office workers as well as private users use about 3-5 "end user applications" on their computer. And you can browse the internet or read mail or write a text document just fine with any operating system out there.



just take the example of this forum, every minute we see users posting problems they face with their specific hardware...


As others have already pointed out, most of these users try to install linux on hardware that was never made or tested to run on linux. The only reason people even try this is because linux does surprisingly well on unsupported hardware. Try installing Windows Vista on a Xbox 360 and you will experience similar problems. Install Mac OSX on a Dell PC and you will experience similar problems. If you want to run Linux without running into hardware problems, do what every Windows and Mac user does: Install it on a machine that was tested with the software.

Also, don't forget that you are here in the center of ubuntu linux support. There are most likely millions of questions are asked to microsoft support each day. Every larger software code base has a endless list of bugs and problems. There is no exception. The only difference with free software is that all this can be observed and discussed openly.



can we see in the future a version of Ubuntu that will just run out of the box such that very very few users will need to reach forums for help?


Start by buying the right box. To answer your question: Yes, we can see such a version of Ubuntu that runs flawlessly on each computer that was made for windows. But this is something that has never been done in technology, so if it does happen, it will probably not be anytime soon.

[metalf8801]

I would recommend Linux Mint to new users because it is based on Ubuntu and it comes with browser plugins, media codecs, support for DVD playback, Java and other components.

[fourthofjuly]

"As Easy as Windows" for whom? There is no average computer user, just many different types of them. And the majority of PC users cannot install any operating system on it.

For me as a software engineer, Linux is much easier to use than Windows. And I spend about 3 days to make my old 17 inch monitor work with xinerama. I'm still a lot more productive with linux because I save time each day using it. Easy to use is not the same thing as installing the system.

My sister is a doctor, and she cannot install either Windows or Linux or Mac OSX on her Computer.

Most office workers do not install their computers themselves and they do not install any software. That is what System Administrators do. I guess most office workers as well as private users use about 3-5 "end user applications" on their computer. And you can browse the internet or read mail or write a text document just fine with any operating system out there.



As others have already pointed out, most of these users try to install linux on hardware that was never made or tested to run on linux. The only reason people even try this is because linux does surprisingly well on unsupported hardware. Try installing Windows Vista on a Xbox 360 and you will experience similar problems. Install Mac OSX on a Dell PC and you will experience similar problems. If you want to run Linux without running into hardware problems, do what every Windows and Mac user does: Install it on a machine that was tested with the software.

Also, don't forget that you are here in the center of ubuntu linux support. There are most likely millions of questions are asked to microsoft support each day. Every larger software code base has a endless list of bugs and problems. There is no exception. The only difference with free software is that all this can be observed and discussed openly.



Start by buying the right box. To answer your question: Yes, we can see such a version of Ubuntu that runs flawlessly on each computer that was made for windows. But this is something that has never been done in technology, so if it does happen, it will probably not be anytime soon.

agreed, maybe my perception of problems & support was wrong... thanks...

but i have one more query.., maximum number of IT support agencies (consultancy firms etc.) do not offer support for Linux OS...?

why have my home pc support engineer / any IT consultancy agency (related to my workplace) never ever suggested Linux as an alternative?

or to put it more appropriately, what's stopping them from? does free software means dwindling cash flows for them?

if they can provide even paid support, i will buy it... maybe i should check with them?

[fourthofjuly]

also, maybe since Ubuntu is free, i am taking it for granted

i need to become more responsible toward the community that has dedicated their time, energy & resources to give me for free a working OS that is so technologically advanced...!!!

i can atleast ask my hardware manufacturer for Linux drivers, i need to demand from my IT support engineer to provide services for Linux or i will find their alternative...!!!

maybe we all can do that?

please add your ideas to this...

regards,

devang.

[Happibun]

Thanks Aysiu.

I have a *lot* of reading to do :)

[TheWizzard]

maybe users of Ubuntu need to press hardware manufacturers to provide linux drivers just like they do for Windows?

i have heard that some like Samsung and HP supply Linux drivers with their printers?

the reason i bought a HP scanner/printer combi was linux drivers. even the brand new model worked out of the box, without having to install anything!

[LaRoza]

the reason i bought a HP scanner/printer combi was linux drivers. even the brand new model worked out of the box, without having to install anything!

My printer is an HP as well, everything "just works". The same for my web cam, just plug it in and it works.

[Bruce M.]

And has anyone visited the MS forums? I have, and there are only about 500 users at average, so Ubuntu Forums certainly beats that:).

There are MS Forums? In all the years I used Windows I never knew that.


I've tried to create such a guide (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu). Let me know what you think.

"I've tried ..." ... oh now that WAS a good chuckle!

Imagine one of the most quoted sites in the forums and aysiu says: "I've tried to create."

aysiu, stand up and take a bow! You have done a GREAT job with that site and an immense service to the Ubuntu Community. It's my opinion you should get a very special gold plated coffee cup (in the middle) to outshine the other 4..

Now back on topic.... Is Ubuntu Really That Simple?

YES!

I installed 6.06 last year, and within a few weeks updated to 6.10, 7.04 and then 7.06 all via the "online update" method. Taking 14 hours for each (had a 128K connection at the time). In all cases everything here worked "right out of the box". Granted there is nothing special about my system (see my sig) But my Epson Stylus CX4100 (printer, scanner, photocopier) and my Samsung SyncMaster713n LCD monitor worked flawlessly.

Things were different for Gutsy, I had my system up and running for a while, had stuff I wanted to keep. So I moved my /home folder to a separate partition (thanks to aysiu (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/separatehome)) and I did a clean install of Gutsy. Now here I had problems, because my computer doesn't like compiz. But within 3 days compiz is gone and metacity back online.

To install Windows I need:

Windows DVD (W2K Pro) (Yes, it's original and it is a DVD)

at least 3 reboots, maybe more, I can't remember

Intel Motherboard CD

two reboots

Epson CD

another reboot

Samsung CD

another reboot

Install Firewall from CD

another reboot

Install Virus protection from CD

another reboot



Estimated time for this: 5 to 6 hours
Now Windows wants to "Update" ... time unknown, and many of the updates had to be done alone as re-boots were required. Of the rest that I could get as a multiple download at least one of those would require a re-boot. And to make things worse, some updates required yet a second update to that update ... more re-boots!

To install Ubuntu I need:

The Live or Alt CD

one re-boot - to take the CD out so the system can start



Estimated time for this: 45 minutes to an hour.
Updates listed out at 186, time: less than an hour (faster connection now) at which time I did need to re-boot. And yet again, everything just works!

For me the "simple" aspect is just that. Simple, out of the box.
It get a little less simple when you want to "configure things" to your liking. Ubuntu/Linux is highly configurable, with Windows you're kind of stuck with what they give you. I've never seen ME, XP or Vista, so I can't say if they are configurable or not.

I don't have to spend my time scanning for viruses, malware, downloading updates for those nor do I have to "clean out a registry" or defrag my drive. For the amount of time I used to that in Windows, I've spent learning things about Ubuntu, configuring my system, I've learned how to configure Conky. I had it set up so I could watch DVD's on my computer. I did it because I found out I could, couldn't do that in Windows without laying out $$. I've since delete all that stuff because that what my DVD player is for on my 29" TV, but it was nice to do

Windows comes with "nothing", Ubuntu comes with everything, OO, Gimp, Image Viewer, Evolution (I don't use it) to name a few. And what it doesn't have Synaptic does.

So yes, Ubuntu is simple.

EDIT: @ aysiu: Your guide worked for me using Feisty, just so you know. :)

[bobbybobington]

I think sometimes it is easy to forget how good ubuntu's hardware support really is compared to windows and osx. Ubuntu is very good at the nuts-and-bolts level, but still has a long way to go in terms of polish imo. Suse has a lot of graphical polish, the grub sceen is a good example, and is absolutely gorgeous. A lot of small details can make a big difference.

[TheWizzard]

My printer is an HP as well, everything "just works". The same for my web cam, just plug it in and it works.

very good.
actually i checked this website: http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=Anyone
and i noticed HP was best supported.
this was a buying argument for me!
the same goes for my video card: nvidia instead of ati.

i think we (the community) can be a driving force by buying brands that are doing their bests towards linux. and - best of all - sending an email to the brand you didn't buy.

[CCNA_student]

Most things in Ubuntu were simple for me. I still am unable to get my system to go into standby correctly.

[YaroMan86]

My experience with Ubuntu has been somewhat easier, hardware driver-wise. I've told this story before, but I shall tell it again. When I bought my beloved computer, it was bundled with (shudder) Vista. I used it for a while before I decided to start dual-booting. My original plan was to dual boot it with Windows 98 SE (This was before I became a Linux user.), so that a more stable OS could *hold* its hand. (Again, since the only operating systems aside from Windows I had experience with at that point was DOS and CP/M, my idea of a stable OS was an older OS.) But, after reading several dozen articles that say installing older Windows when newer is present leads to almost endless headaches, I looked into Linux, and stumbled onto Ubuntu. After doing some research, I learned dual-booting with Ubuntu is easy, so I installed it. Little did I realize how easy Ubuntu was, and *all* my drivers worked right from the getgo. I did have to install the nVidia restricted driver, but that only took two clicks. After a while, I "upgraded" Windows Vista to Windows XP and was not surprised to see that *none* of my hardware was supported out of the box. Not only that, but I had to install Service Pack 2 just to install most of my drivers. After almost two days I finally had Windows XP running compared to just the two clicks I needed for the one driver that wasn't installed from the start (Due to its restricted nature.) Eventually I did away with Windows (And Microsoft altogether.) And am running happily on a purely Ubuntu machine.

[LaRoza]

very good.
actually i checked this website: http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=Anyone
and i noticed HP was best supported.
this was a buying argument for me!
the same goes for my video card: nvidia instead of ati.

i think we (the community) can be a driving force by buying brands that are doing their bests towards linux. and - best of all - sending an email to the brand you didn't buy.

I think the other companies are taking the hint. You notice a strong leaning toward Intel, Nvidia, HP and a few other companies. Lexmark, ATI, and others are avoided like a Windows ME install disk.

ATI seems to have seen the light, and is slowly working on it. I don't know about the other companies.

(My webcam is a Logitech Quickcam Chat, in case anyone wondered)

[Bruce M.]

so that a more stable OS could *hold* its hand.

So tell me was Ubuntu suppost to be holding Win98SE's hand or the other way around?


I "upgraded" Windows Vista to Windows XP

I absolutely love your reference to "upgraded"


Eventually I did away with Windows (And Microsoft altogether.) And am running happily on a purely Ubuntu machine.

Ah, so the truth be told, Ubuntu was in fact, if not by design, holding WinXP's hand. :)

Love your story.

[tdrusk]

The reason you see all those posts is because people really only post in the support forum if they need help, not to say that it's all working.

[Linuxratty]

Every distro I've tried is easy to use...The list is:
Linspire,Freespire,Klikit,Ubuntu,Kubuntu,Fedora8, Mepis7, Mint (live,could not install it.)

Part of it's appeal is it is different and it's fun to tweak.
I do like Linux.

[Arkenzor]

I've tried to create such a guide (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu). Let me know what you think.

Wow, now I wish I had found this when I started with Ubuntu. But I guess that's my fault for scratching my head alone instead of asking for help ^^'.


Anyway, yes, Ubuntu is easy. After complaining about the "steep learning curve" for a while, I realized that most of those problems came from trying to do things almost no one would attempt in Windows. I definitely wouldn't try to install Vista on a machine with officially (almost) unsupported hardware (yay to my Broadcom chip), nor would I actually try to get Aero to change the way it handles its animations. And I won't even talk about building a graphical environment from scratch, or configuring my computer as a NAT+DNS router for the rest of my family.

So all in all, on my first attempt with Linux it took me like 3 hours to get a system I would have been content with had it been Windows. But there was still so much I could do that I didn't notice it at all.

[Masoris]

I think Ubnutu is simple OS for English speakers, but if you are not English speaker, Ubuntu is not easy. That's also a problem of many Linux distributions.

Microsoft Windows support many languages world wide, but Ubuntu is not. Although it supports translated programme in many languages. That's not enough. Ubuntu doesn't have any official site except English.

When English speaker found a bug or a problem on using Ubuntu, they can solve the problem by searching official Ubuntu Community, Ubuntu Wiki, and Launchpad. But non-English speaker doesn't have those website.

[Arkenzor]

Actually, there are very helpful Linux user groups/forums in almost any location you can probably think of. Perhaps giving them some (more) exposure on the Ubuntu site would be a good idea though.

[Chame_Wizard]

After months of trying to recove/upgrading my Kubuntu 7.04 2.6.20.16 kernel,i had decide to resize the 7.04 partition,so that I installed 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon.Within an hour,everything what i needed was installed(always choose for recent update Adept manager...and sudo apt-get KDE):guitar:

Funny thing is,that i have done it today at 1:00 AM.:lolflag:
So yes *Buntu is simple,you have to know what you want and from this things can learn a lot .

[arekkusu]

I think Ubnutu is simple OS for English speakers, but if you are not English speaker, Ubuntu is not easy. That's also a problem of many Linux distributions.

Microsoft Windows support many languages world wide, but Ubuntu is not. Although it supports translated programme in many languages. That's not enough. Ubuntu doesn't have any official site except English.

When English speaker found a bug or a problem on using Ubuntu, they can solve the problem by searching official Ubuntu Community, Ubuntu Wiki, and Launchpad. But non-English speaker doesn't have those website.

"programme" you're not a native English speaker are you ? (me neither :) )

Beside that I guess you're quite right, hopefully as Ubuntu (linux) get bigger on the Desktop side thinks will improve...

Speaking how easy Ubuntu is, I think that once you have a set-up system it's all pretty good, there are point that need improvement though.

Installing Japanese input for one is not an easy thing... language display and input in any widely used language should really be made easy and work in GTK and QT apps.

Also I have installed Gusty with Japanese as default language. Of course Japanese input is there and works... mostly... there's a nasty bug that make input in Nautilus (and a few other apps that use a certain library I think) freeze regularly.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/scim/+bug/66104

Beside that the Japanese font by default are just awful... sure you can fix that by installing Microsoft font, but still not something I would expect the user to be doing in a perfect scenario.

[LaRoza]

Other operating systems have other languages.

(To my knowledge, Windows doesn't have Kurdish)

[aysiu]

Other operating systems have other languages. Ubuntu is developed in the USA.

(To my knowledge, Windows doesn't have Kurdish)
Ubuntu is developed in the USA? I thought it was developed by people in a number of different countries. I know Ubuntu is officially based in Isle of Man, and Mark Shuttleworth is from South Africa.

[LaRoza]

Ubuntu is developed in the USA? I thought it was developed by people in a number of different countries. I know Ubuntu is officially based in Isle of Man, and Mark Shuttleworth is from South Africa.

Whoops, I didn't mean that.

(I was thinking of something else unrelated.)

[Teber]

i checked. the ubuntu site links to forums in languages other than english. 14 languages in total. however, these forums are started and maintained by volunteers. so if these were really the only other languages you could get support in, it would be due to lack of dedicated volunteers?

a friend of mine who led me to linux gets his support from a friend of his, who is very proficient in linux...

getting into ubuntu should not be too difficult for me, since i have years of experience figuring things out with amigas.

not blaming anybody, but i can see how many fellow countrypeople of mine would not get anywhere, if they had only english forums to turn to...

still, i'm not really baffled by ubuntu so far. so i feel ubuntu is not really difficult. but then i have little trouble with support in english. i even installed ubuntu in english...

[emshains]

Lets put it like this: if you give a blond secretary a ubuntu disk with a machine that automaticly boots from cd then i could say its a lot easier, because if you install ******* xp pro you have to spend like 4 hours installing and another 2 to 3 updating it.
Then again if you want to configure your OS ******* lets you configure it so much (little) you cant screw up anything, or thats how they imagined it, but in linux you like a guy with a 747 that can fly it just from london to new york or you can try to do cool tricks with it and after you have crashed you can go back in to the time and do the tricks again, without reinstalling it. But on ******* if you screw up, you have no chance of getting it back without reinstalling it. Just for the record- screwing up ******* is much easier than doing the same on linux.

It's just made up that linux installs and configs are really hard and an average Joe could not do them. Many people just start this bs because they have heard that some hacker uses gentoo and he has to do all through the terminal or something. But most likley the dude hasnt even seen a linux desktop. I have a good an good example: i tried to get Electronic Arts attention to linux by posting threads on their forums and they said that there is no real use of making linux versions of the game, because nobody uses it, and a half of the rare linux users dont play games. And that was a forum staff that told me that there is no market for those games, but i think that it its absolute bulls dropings.

From my expierience, ubuntu couldnt is quite easy to use, and it runs on low requirements which is really great, because i am a teen with no big, frequent supply of money, so i use PC i get from my relatives.
Another reason ubuntu is simple, is Synaptics. Its so much easier to install new programs and delete old ones. And this is one of the reasons why ubuntu is a really good beginers linux, it revals how many things you cant get for your system. Of course ubuntu would be much greater if it could support old video card on new systems, and the trouble shooting isnt quite ,hmmm, advanced, you just go and write it on the forum, of course some people wouldnt say its wrong, but for a recent ******* user its quite annoying. And wi-fi sucks, i cant get my usb wifi connecter to work, thats why my computer hasnt got to my room yet.
But i've seen evend worse Linux destributions if we are talking about "beginer support", so ubuntu is doing quite good, although it is not the best.

[aysiu]

Lets put it like this: if you give a blond secretary a ubuntu disk with a machine that automaticly boots from cd then i could say its a lot easier, because if you install ******* xp pro you have to spend like 4 hours installing and another 2 to 3 updating it. Your stereotypes are not appreciated. Hair color has nothing to do with computer ability. And, in my experience, secretaries generally know a lot more about computers than other people in the office!

[TheWizzard]

I think Ubnutu is simple OS for English speakers, but if you are not English speaker, Ubuntu is not easy. That's also a problem of many Linux distributions.

Microsoft Windows support many languages world wide, but Ubuntu is not. Although it supports translated programme in many languages. That's not enough. Ubuntu doesn't have any official site except English.

When English speaker found a bug or a problem on using Ubuntu, they can solve the problem by searching official Ubuntu Community, Ubuntu Wiki, and Launchpad. But non-English speaker doesn't have those website.

where are you from?

i actually think linux does support more languages than windows. at least there is a Frisian language pack :guitar:

[LaRoza]

where are you from?

i actually think linux does support more languages than windows. at least there is a Frisian language pack :guitar:

There is Esperanto also available, I don't know if Windows has that.

http://www.microsoft.com/unlimitedpotential/locallanguageprogram/default.mspx

(It doesn't)

I heard that Windows doesn't have a Kurdish language pack because it is illegal to speak that language in some countries, so MS complies with the oppressive governments.

[Teber]

where are you from?

i actually think linux does support more languages than windows. at least there is a Frisian language pack :guitar:

wow! so you could be typing an essay in Frisian using openoffice writer using ubuntu in an all Frisian environment? you would need to move house to somewhere in Fryslan though, and speak Frisian in the first place, which i don't...

well that language pack is ubuntu for you! :lolflag:

[khuxtable]

Your stereotypes are not appreciated. Hair color has nothing to do with computer ability. And, in my experience, secretaries generally know a lot more about computers than other people in the office!

This is true, but here's a joke:

Q: Why are most blonde jokes one-liners?

A: So that men can understand them.

-K, who is simply noting that stereotypes cut both ways and are seldom valid.

[TheWizzard]

wow! so you could be typing an essay in Frisian using openoffice writer using ubuntu in an all Frisian environment? you would need to move house to somewhere in Fryslan though, and speak Frisian in the first place, which i don't...

well that language pack is ubuntu for you! :lolflag:

yeah free software really rocks!

actually i only used the Frisian language pack when my girlfriend (who is from Holland) started working in Ljouwert. all Frisian experience for her. my default language on the computer is English.

[regomodo]

if you're hardware is in the kernel Ubuntu is a p.o.p. Otherwise, it is a real hassle for a newbie.

[chris4585]

My printer is an HP as well, everything "just works". The same for my web cam, just plug it in and it works.

+1 i have a printer / scanner / copier (HP) and it just works, i was surprised i didnt have to do anything to configure it... i've been rather lucky, i've seen before in this thread that samsung and hp are great for linux.. my monitor is samsung and just about everything on my system is HP, only thing that isnt is.... eh not really my system but flash drive and i dont need drivers for that xD not that i know of anywho, i consider myself lucky

[umattu]

And has anyone visited the MS forums? I have, and there are only about 500 users at average, so Ubuntu Forums certainly beats that:).

And there are MANY more Windows forums than ubuntu!!

[Antkin]

I've been a Linux user since 1999. I am basically a dual booter. I stayed with Mandriva for over three years. In October I loaded Kubuntu onto one of my Windows machines and tested it with very few problems. Later on I removed Windows from one of my other Dell computers and made it native Ubuntu linux this has the KDE desktop installed and runs 24/7 on Boinc Manager projects for the World Community Grid. I have since installed Ubuntu on more computers. I would say yes on a desktop Ubuntu is really simple to install without any problems.

[desertboy]

Ubuntu can be a bit of a nightmare to get everything working if it's not well supported, getting my USB tv stick was very difficult and I had fun getting my WM5 phone to sync.

Ubuntu can be a joy as well when stuff is supported properly it works beautifully. I installed it on a laptop recently expecting it to be more fun. It recognized everything straight out the box and all I had to do was plug it into a wired network to download the restricted wireless driver and boom. My eeepc install was relatively painless as just installed ran a few scripts and installed cheese for the webcam and everything works great.

I think Ubuntu still has a way to go to be as easy as windows is overall (Although UAC is making it harder which is a good thing) but it already beats windows in many ways especially synaptic and restricted driver downloads.

We could really do with a large database of what hardware works in Ubuntu and what steps need to be taken to get it to work.

One last note my Mother who's 60 has absolutely no problems with Using Ubuntu but I install and set everything up for her so she never has to use (Or has seen) terminal.

[jespdj]

For the hardware detection, Ubuntu is really good (so are others). It only chokes on certain hardware, and it is not Ubuntu's fault.

Ubuntu detected my printer, scanner, webcam, wireless internet and video with no configuration or extra installations. I can't say the same for Windows...
"Me too"! :) I installed Windows Vista and Ubuntu 7.10 on my laptop.

Installing Ubuntu was very easy, and it recognized all the hardware, including sound, graphics, WiFi and webcam automatically. On the first login, it prompted me to install the restricted nVidia driver - I just needed to click OK.

Windows Vista doesn't recognise the sound, graphics, WiFi and webcam. After installing Windows I had to install all the drivers, and a bunch of others (for the chipset, card reader, etc.) for those devices separately (from a DVD from Dell that I got with the laptop). After installing each driver, Windows had to reboot. So installing all that junk took at least 45 minutes and many reboots. So, installing Vista and all the drivers was a lot more work than installing Ubuntu.

If you don't have really exotic hardware, or hardware from a vendor that is particularly Linux-unfriendly, you'll most likely not have big problems getting your hardware to work on Ubuntu. And if there is a problem, you can almost always find the solution on the forums here or on other websites. I agree though that problems are not always very easy to solve and that you'll have to be a bit computer- or tech-minded to solve things.

For daily usage, Ubuntu is not more difficult than Windows.

[alfirin]

I have been using Ubuntu(and Linux) for one year and I have to admit that it took me months to get used of it. It is a piece of cake now to install and configure things because there are many useful guides online!
In Windows XP everything was working fine out of the box but it has many-many disadvantages...

[fourthofjuly]

thanks to all for your responses, please do continue...

many of you suggesting Ubuntu being easy / not easy...

but easy or not, i guess most of us will need to adapt to Ubuntu and forget Windows, with XP almost becoming outdated few years down the line and Vista not being suitable for older hardware?

however, as i said earlier, let's not make this a linux v/s. windows discussion, but rather linux v/s. linux... to make it still better...

can we jot down point wise all the things that we need to do to make Ubuntu even more popular?

say, each one of us gives 5 wishes / action points for the community to consider?

i have started thinking on mine?

please?

regards,

devang.

[aysiu]

but easy or not, i guess most of us will need to adapt to Ubuntu and forget Windows, with XP almost becoming outdated few years down the line and Vista not being suitable for older hardware? I guess it depends on whom you mean by most of us--since a lot of people still run Windows 98, even though it's not officially supported any more.

[TheWizzard]

One last note my Mother who's 60 has absolutely no problems with Using Ubuntu but I install and set everything up for her so she never has to use (Or has seen) terminal.

same here. my father (66) uses ubuntu and i configured everything so he doesn't have to worry about a thing. and because he hes no permissions, i don't have to worry either.

[raymac46]

I guess it depends on whom you mean by most of us--since a lot of people still run Windows 98, even though it's not officially supported any more.

That is the case with my neighbor - he has a 1999 Pentium III Katmai that runs Windows 98. There's quality hardware in this old machine, so I put in another 128MB of RAM, a second hard drive and a USB 2.0 hub and installed Linux for him. He'll dual boot for a while then go exclusively Linux.
I had more trouble getting the USB hub to work in Windows 98 than I did installing the entire Linux system.
He has exclusively HP peripherals so they worked right out of the box.

[ellalan]

Yes, I do prefer Ubuntu to XP because it is faster than XP on my PC which is old. I did have some issues with Ubuntu but the Forum helped me out. I have been using Ubuntu for the last two days and I don't miss my XP, when I learn to handle Ubuntu I may discard my Vista as well. Ubuntu is a challenge and I love it, in my two days experience I had USB ADSL modem connection problem, Shutdown wasn't working,I managed to get the guides from the forum.

[mangurt]

For a newcomer (almost undoubtedly used to proprietary software and formats), I would recommend only one of the following options: Buy Linux preinstalled. Install Linux as virtual machine within XP. Let me set it up for you. If you're a little tech savvy, just a little, use Linux Mint or PCLinuxOS.

I have been playing around with Linux for a few months now, and I consider myself ok when it comes to computers, but the suggestions of linux mint and PCLinuxOS are great. I found both of these "easier" for my kids to use instead of Ubuntu. Granted, they just want to play games on the computer, but the look of both is close to what they are use to at school, and I have the added security of not fixing the computer every other day after they open up an email attachment from their friends.... :)

[articpenguin]

it depends what you mean by "Simple"

Ubuntu uses Gnome which has a goal of being simple and easy to use.

[bashveank]

Once it's been configured, Ubuntu is far easier to use than Windows. Configuration on unsupported platforms is a nightmare, but the same is true for Windows and OS X.

[fourthofjuly]

here are my 5 best wishes for Ubuntu:

1) Hardware manufacturers providing Linux drivers and Linux software CDs with all their upcoming products

2) LARGE number of guys providing paid on-site support for Linux

3) Adoption of Linux by educational institutes (getting ready for future)

4) All commercial software (including games) with a Linux version

5) Ubuntu on my cellphone...??!!!

awaiting your suggestions please...

thanks & regards,

devang.

[forrestcupp]

just take the example of this forum, every minute we see users posting problems they face with their specific hardware...

Well, if you really want a fair comparison, you need to look at both communities in the different ways that they work. Linux users have forums to go to and get support, usually from well-meaning volunteers. Windows users still have support options, but their community operates much differently.

In the Windows world, instead of having a central forum for all questions, you have many tech support phone lines, and support via email offered by many companies. I'm sure if you could get data on the total number of Windows support phone calls and emails from every Windows-based tech support out there, the numbers would be mind boggling.

I'm sure that proportionately, the amount of support being offered to Windows users in their particular way of doing things is comparable to the support being offered to Linux users in the format that we use.

[L815]

I think Moore's Law has been in effect with Ubuntu if I say so myself :-({|=

[fourthofjuly]

Well, if you really want a fair comparison, you need to look at both communities in the different ways that they work. Linux users have forums to go to and get support, usually from well-meaning volunteers. Windows users still have support options, but their community operates much differently.

In the Windows world, instead of having a central forum for all questions, you have many tech support phone lines, and support via email offered by many companies. I'm sure if you could get data on the total number of Windows support phone calls and emails from every Windows-based tech support out there, the numbers would be mind boggling.

I'm sure that proportionately, the amount of support being offered to Windows users in their particular way of doing things is comparable to the support being offered to Linux users in the format that we use.

agreed Sir, but let's not compare linux to windows please,

my point is, how can we make linux better than it is today? what can linux enthusiasts & the Ubuntu community do to make it more popular? i have given five ideas, please give your feedback & suggestions...

thanks & regards,

devang.

[Drakkenfyre]

As a reply to the original poster, it's not simple, sadly. It can be simple if you only want to surf the internet and are happy to not use any applets, for example, like to upload photos to Facebook--but if you want to do anything else with your computer, it is not simple.

I'm not saying it isn't worth it to try, but do prepare yourself for some frustration. It has a lot of powerful tools for people who are, say, programmers or network admistrators. But for regular folk, it can be an extreme hassle for some and a piece of cake for others.

[buddahboy]

I am just a typical computer user who wanted something other than windows, but i can honestly say since i have completely installed ubuntu on my Dell 1705 i have had no problems whatsoever!! it's only been a few months and maybe i am just lucky, but i am switching my wifes, my dads, and my brothers computer over in the next few weeks. Yes, it is really that simple.

[buddahboy]

I am just a typical computer user who wanted something other than windows, but i can honestly say since i have completely installed ubuntu on my Dell 1705 i have had no problems whatsoever!! it's only been a few months and maybe i am just lucky, but i am switching my wifes, my dads, and my brothers computer over in the next few weeks. Yes, it is really that simple.

[oomingmak]

my point is, how can we make linux better than it is today? what can linux enthusiasts & the Ubuntu community do to make it more popular.

It rather depends on what you mean by "better". I wouldn't conflate popularity with improvement.

[fourthofjuly]

It rather depends on what you mean by "better". I wouldn't conflate popularity with improvement.

a product certainly needs to be good enough to be popular... Ubuntu's popularity has risen only b'coz it has been improvised over the years...

however, there are areas where it certainly needs improvement & which I believe can make it more popular.. i have given 5 ideas above for you to add to...!!!

regards,

devang.

[emshains]

Well, ubuntu is really simple, just because of deb packages and apt-get. They are easy to install and I think its a lot easier than downloading an .exe file and installing it by hand. Though I hate when I cant accses my programs without sudo, so I usually end up compiling from the source. And in many ocasions I find that it works better or just works rather than does nothing when installed with dpkg or apt-get. Well its not hard to install something manually, but you have to have the "skill", and most ordinary winXP people dont have any. They want it to work by default, and then they get pissed. And then they blame the whole "linux" definition for this one program not working.

I think ubuntu is really simple for people who love to tinker or just love getting things to work, but for a regular winXP user it doesnt nececarly mean its hard, it just sort of happens some times.

[dacorr]

i think people have issues with ubuntu and windows, but no program is perfect, this applies to windows also, how many people work for Microsoft Support?

As an error response i found linux is far better at trying to tell you what the problem is instead of just saying "does not work".

Also windows and linux operating systems are completely different by design so it is a bit like comparing a boat with a hovercraft.

The thing i like most about ubuntu is that it is adaptable for the circumstances the user places it in, it can be more than what it was when it came out of the box.

Ultimately Windows has its uses and it depends on the user and what they expect from the OS

Hope that made sense, it makes sense to me sort of

Dac

[drascus]

I think it is doubtful because even if a user tried to install a windows system on their own from scratch they would most likely run into issue that they would need help fixing. from my experiance ubuntu is way more useful out of box with no mods then windows. the reason that windows seems so easy is because on preinstalled systems have everything up and running. but if you needed to reinstall you would quickly see how hard it would be to set up a windows box. So I expect things will get easier over time but with so many different types of hardware and perihparels I expect it will never be perfect.

[keiichidono]

If hardware support increased greatly you would see a huge decline in support threads. I don't know about you guys but i had to install Java and Flash and Codecs myself in Windows by searching all over the web (when i was a Windows newbie) but with Ubuntu the stuff is in the repo's so it's much easier.