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View Full Version : Too many new users trying Breezy instead of Hoary...



GreyFox503
September 28th, 2005, 11:41 PM
I've been wondering why several new users have come here for help after installing breezy badger, and most people remind them that it is not officially released yet (they don't use the term beta but that's pretty much what it is).
Then I went to Ubuntulinux.org and clicked on "Download", and the first entry is for "Ubuntu 5.10 The Breezy Badger Preview Release". (not exact quote). If breezy is not stable yet, then why is it the big first listing in the download section? It does say "preview", but most windows users would understand the seriousness of that if it said "beta" instead. Either way, it should be moved down the page or somewhere else.
Someone new to Ubuntu should see our current stable release as the first item to download IMO. They should also make it more clear not to install breezy unless you know what you are doing (or accept the risks associated with it).

If people are trying to choose which one to download, of course they are going to pick the first entry with the higher version number.

brentoboy
September 28th, 2005, 11:55 PM
amen

dont install breezy unless you feel geeky, or have some hardware issues with hoarty. heck, if I was going to recommend something to a friend, I would tell them to wait for a month after the official release before they jump to the new version.

mlomker
September 28th, 2005, 11:56 PM
If people are trying to choose which one to download, of course they are going to pick the first entry with the higher version number.

Amen. Bigger numbers are always better, aren't they?

I'd not only put it below Hoary but I'd do something like Breezy Preview Release for developers and bug testers.

XDevHald
September 29th, 2005, 12:01 AM
I feel geeky everday, which is why I installed Breezy to let the geekness come out even more ;) If you know your work line of linux, install breezy and enjoy, if not, please refrain from doing so. On my side, it's a lot of work, no bugs, but projects to make certatin things happen and work right before starting them in real life working for me to use.

Stay with Hoary for about another 3 weeks and see how things go with the updates we put out. :)

YourSurrogateGod
September 29th, 2005, 12:04 AM
It's encouraging to see more people try out Ubuntu, but it should be mentioned (maybe a small warning where you can download the iso?) that this is not the recomended version, unless (as said before) hoarty doesn't work for them.

XDevHald
September 29th, 2005, 12:08 AM
It's encouraging to see more people try out Ubuntu, but it should be mentioned (maybe a small warning where you can download the iso?) that this is not the recomended version, unless (as said before) hoarty doesn't work for them.
I agree with you on this as well, a warning lable must be implimented before installing. Now the thing is with Breezy is that it's not safe enough yet to upgrade, to many issues with bugs and application and dependency builds are not the same with hoary or users with warty.

If you're doing an upgrade, don't, please install from scratch, take it from a personal 8x's installing experience from bug testing for Breezy for the past 3 months. If you want to enjoy it's almost full bloom, then do a fresh install, but to many users are not reading the post warnings and then doing an upgrade after we do a (I told you so) and dealing with having to install Hoary all over again because of a mess up.

Play safe.

majikstreet
September 29th, 2005, 12:08 AM
I agree..

It's all because they put breezy up first on the download page. There should be a huge red warning:

WARNING!!!
DEVELOPMENT VERSION--BETA!
DO NOT USE IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO BREAK YOUR COMPUTER!!!!!!


LOL

poofyhairguy
September 29th, 2005, 12:45 AM
Well....

I wish we could control that. We can't.

I actually feel guilty about this a little. Because I tell people to use Breezy? No. Because as a forum helper its easy when people use Breezy. When something doesn't work right and you can't help you can say "its a development version, not everything will work right"- even with stuff you know probably won't get fixed before the final release. I know from experiance Breezy is in pretty good shape and can be used, but it still has that good excuse. All kinds of problems can be waved off that way.

When the final release comes the bugs that are still around will haunt the forum helpers for months (Hoary sound anyone?), and I will miss the old good "its your fault for using a development version" excuse. I know that I shouldn't think that way....

Some days I think Sid never has a release just for that reason (just joking).

Cirkus
September 29th, 2005, 12:51 AM
I think google's taken some of the 'oomph' out of the word 'beta' ;)
Btw, I'm guilty of the 'oh there's 5.1 it must be better' thinking too; but I regularly run BSD so I can take care of myself.:D

openmind
September 29th, 2005, 01:12 AM
Good training for us Noobs, if we can get the preview release going then all the much easier when it's a stable version! I've learned a massive amount on sound and printing in the last couple of weeks, money can't buy training like that!;-)
On a (slightly) more serious note, as long as we realize that we're getting essentially a Beta, and you guys don't mind answering our inane questions, where's the harm?

mlomker
September 29th, 2005, 01:20 AM
On a (slightly) more serious note, as long as we realize that we're getting essentially a Beta, and you guys don't mind answering our inane questions, where's the harm?

They don't realize it and instead they blame linux for being junk and they give up and maybe try it again and maybe they don't. It's also really hard on people trying to help others when they can't tell if it is a bug or a procedural problem. I don't like spending hours troubleshooting something to realize it is a bug...that's my free time invested in helping somebody else out...and if I don't solve their problem they're unlikely to even say 'thank you.' Indeed, they often just get mad in general because they're frustrated with the problem.

Getting to the 'thank you' is really all I get out of helping people on here. It's the satisfaction in solving a problem. Know what I'm saying?

manicka
September 29th, 2005, 01:28 AM
I think we should all just relax and enjoy. I don't mind helping out n00bs with breezy and deep down probably does anyone else.

That's why we hang out here isn't it :D

openmind
September 29th, 2005, 01:29 AM
Yeah, I hear you.
..................and Thank You man.;-)

Kyral
September 29th, 2005, 02:10 AM
Yah its the "civilized" Breezy New Linux Users that make me happy.

Its the ones that come onto the Community Chat/ABT Forums and go "Ubuntu is crap! I just downloading and installed Breezy and <insert whatever> is broken, etc etc etc" that make me go all BOFH :P

GreyFox503
September 29th, 2005, 03:32 AM
Ok, so I guess I'm not the only one. :)

You guys hit the nail on the head.

Put another way, it appears that the Ubuntu website directs new users to breezy by default instead of to the current stable version. It would be really easy to just change that one page a little, then new users would be happier by not accidently downloading pre-release software.

whiterabbit
September 29th, 2005, 04:50 AM
Well, I guess that I'm one of these newbies you're referring to. I'm newish to computers let alone linux and mindlessly clicked on, downloaded and installed Ubuntu Breezy without knowing the whole story. I clicked on the first link and away it went. I'll tell you one thing though.... I've learnt more about computers and operating systems in the last few days than I have in the past 24 years.

No, I can't get a few things working(ie. sound in games) but I've managed to get a few things right and that's all thanks to the Ubuntu community. Fortunately, you're not the renegade elitests that XP users make you out to be. ;)

So what am I doing now? I've had XP and Ubuntu(Breezy) dual booted for the last few days and I haven't been into XP once. To be honest, the help file in Breezy is fantastic for basic needs.

EDIT: See? Thanks to help files and the community, I've managed to fix the sound issue. :)

occy8
September 29th, 2005, 06:54 AM
I did the same six month ago, installed Hoary prerelease and that after browsing in the forums, I had an idea what I was doing and didn't think there were that many known bugs. I had hardware issues but I would have had the same with Warty and all got solved, thanks to the Ubuntu community and others.
I think it was the excitement some people just can't wait ;)

NZ-Wanderer
September 29th, 2005, 11:34 AM
Another Newbie to Ubuntu here as well...

I knew Brezzy was in pre-release when I downloaded it, and even tho I knew absolutly nothing about Linux or Ubuntu I decided to take the chance, as I have always liked a challenge.. - At my age I don't give up easy anymore :D

I've had a few problems with Breezy, but it you folks on the forums here that have helped me out every single time and for that I give you all a

BIG THANK YOU :)

Now I'm actually glad I decided to go with Breezy as my first Linux type OS, cause when the "official" release comes out next month I will have gained enough experience with the pre-release to hopefully do things right if I reinstall using the "official full release"

And just a little usless info, over the last 2 weeks, I have re-installed Breezy a total of 16 times... (I'm a glutton for punishment)

bluemist
September 29th, 2005, 12:19 PM
I may be one of the rare ones who installed Hoary even though there was already a Breezy preview. I figured that since the Breezy final will be out already next month, there is no point for me to play "impatient" and try out an unstable release, considering that I'm a newbie at that. After all, Hoary can be upgraded into Breezy anyway right?

aysiu
September 29th, 2005, 03:52 PM
After all, Hoary can be upgraded into Breezy anyway right? Yes. On October 13, change your sources.list, do an update and a dist-upgrade.

NeoSNightmarE
September 29th, 2005, 03:57 PM
I wonder why they have it like that? hmm. Either way, it's getting better as time goes on it seems as more and more bugs are getting worked out. I have to tell you though, I love the Gnome 2.12. I think that new users using Breezy keeps the Breezy Developement forums filled with topics if nothing else.

az
September 29th, 2005, 04:30 PM
"Release early, release often"

That is one reason why Open Source software is so good.

The more people who use Breezy now, the better it will be once released.

I would have more of an issue with people who have a knee-jerk reaction to telling people to stop usinging Warty. Warty is still supported. If it is working fine for some, they should stick with it.

jyank
September 29th, 2005, 04:44 PM
honestly right now I think breezy could be used even by the noobs.. but would I advise them to? no, but I think they could still get around fairy easily without even knowing that they were using an unstable version, that's how great I think breezy is, even right now

Brunellus
September 29th, 2005, 04:46 PM
apparently the main issue isn't the clean install...it's the dist-upgrade, which is enough to make me wait.

jyank
September 29th, 2005, 04:49 PM
Yep, even though I had a fairly good dist-upgrade, if I wasn't so lazy I would have done a clean install.. but everything went well

whiterabbit
September 29th, 2005, 05:01 PM
I'm curious, will I have to reinstall when the stable version comes out or can I just upgrade from my current Breezy installation?

Kyral
September 29th, 2005, 05:19 PM
Why do I feel like I jumped on New guys for no reason...Kyral no feel good...

Anyway, just keep upgrading as the new ones come out and you will have the same thing. One question....why the HELL do I need all these different XOrg Drivers when I only use maybe 3?!

Muhammad
September 29th, 2005, 07:12 PM
You won't believe this, but the breezy preview seems alot more stable to me then the hoary release.:)

Brunellus
September 29th, 2005, 07:27 PM
statements like that are either wishful thinking or simply false. you can only really say whether or not something is "stable" after it's been running for a while without problems....

I've run Hoary since April, and have found it to be *very* stable, especially when I stop messign with it (as in ~3 and a half week uptimes, with power off only due to a power outage).

canadianwriterman
September 29th, 2005, 07:49 PM
Good training for us Noobs, if we can get the preview release going then all the much easier when it's a stable version! I've learned a massive amount on sound and printing in the last couple of weeks, money can't buy training like that!;-)
On a (slightly) more serious note, as long as we realize that we're getting essentially a Beta, and you guys don't mind answering our inane questions, where's the harm?

I'm of the same mind. I'm also a newbee. I'd add to openmind's list of criteria, for newbees downloading the PR or Beezy though:

1. Realize you're getting a "beta" (so I agree that there should be better positioning of this on the download page).

2. The forum guys don't mind helping newbees with a beta.

3. The newbee has another, working OS on their system, preferrable on a second HD.

If those conditions are met, I agree... what's the harm. The reason I think it's good to have newbee feedback is that it gives the developers the perspective of non-Linux-adept users (which can be different from the perspective of more sophisticated users) and this might result in some better features targeted at newbees for the final release.

bionicyeti
September 29th, 2005, 09:53 PM
I'm a ubuntu newbie. I do have some experiance with Debian though but still consider myself a linux newbie pretty much. Anyway, I did install the breezy preview. Is there a way to downgrade to Hoary if I wanted to without downloading the iso and doing a complete reinstall?