The Keyword is Freedom

[KingBahamut]

This follow-up to the previously published article 'Ubuntu: Derivative or Fork?' takes into account most of everything that has been posted as a reaction to the first article to present a general opinion and compare them with facts derived from various resouces. You'll see that peace can be achieved between these two, and ultimately any GNU/Linux group out there.

http://www.libervis.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=29

My comments from the article.


However, some of the "harsh words" said in the article may have polarized the response more than we would have liked and detributed somewhat from this healthiness.

What article was he reading. I felt the original article was rife with innuendo and eager unhappy assessement. Example from that original article -- "giving away CDs to the masses and living in parasite on the Debian core base.".


It would be a perfect coherence and there would be no single piece of software that wouldn't have a .deb package you could install on anything that has Debian at its base.

Sure that would be nice, but then if that happens....why need distributions at all...lets jumble up into one gigantic dist with absolutely no mobility what so ever.


DCCA, or Debian Common Core Alliance, is a project of creating a Debian based common core codebase from which other GNU/Linux distributions can build on. These distributions are expected to keep full compatibility with this Debian core and will therefore use the same common repository for their packages. However, DCC is in essence not Debian and (the) Debian Project itself has not become part of this alliance yet.

This statement is in fact the most true thing Ive heard in all of the Forking argument, and its important that the other users out there understand this fact.


What actually Ubuntu is in relation to DCC is not just another potential allie, but its parallel project or even a competitor if you will. The only difference in that sense is that Ubuntu builds a complete desktop operating system while DCC merely builds a base.

Ive always maintained that if Debian itself, or some other related group, maintained a base that all other could use functionally, it would help the community in a solid matter. Am I saying that Ubuntu should fall into this category....not in the slightest. Actually, Ubuntu's success should give it the right, and I firmly believe this, to stay in its own category entirely. Does this make the DCCA a bad thing....no it doesnt. But based on this articles assessments I cant really say that the DCCA is against Ubuntu, and nor do I give any breath to the idea that anyone in the DCCA has the right to call Ubuntu bad for the Debian community or anyone else for that matter -- basing that opinion on whether or not Ubuntu is a member of the DCCA or not.


So, did Mark Shuttleworth play this role right? Can the community trust him? I wont give you a definite answer here, but I will give you a question to consider. How has everything that he has done so far affected the Free Software world and its future?


1. I believe Mark has played the role as he saw fit....and I admire it.
2. Yes, I firmly and rootedly believe that the community can trust him, I back his efforts, I cannot believe that anyone else wouldnt believe the same.
3. Positive affect over the community as a whole......and ultimately achieving that which we all desire...Linux to the User.


Call me wrong, Im just some guy and its my opinion.

[Cirkus]

I'm not following this too closely, so forgive me if I get anything wrong, but reading your post and the two articles here's my thoughts.

Wether or not someone is trustworthy is dependent on wether they live up to their word or not -- it doesn't mean you have to swear a blood oath to the FSF or the SPI.

As far as I can tell from the articles he isn't posistioning himself out there to be the successor of St Ignutius, the mixture of commericality is pretty much out in the open, isn't it?

As far as community goes; debian has lost the hard-core geeks to BSD and to Gentoo; both of whom can boast the same reliablity that debian-stable can, but without being as out of date as debian stable as seen as being (eg: NetBSD, through pkgsrc 2005Q2, offers KDE 3.4, Debian stable doesn't.)

However, what about the 'newbies' that ubuntu brings in? They're not debian's, or anyone's; so there's really no complaint that can be made there anyways.

Now, I haven't had my morning coffee yet, but it seems to me that if Ubuntu is making headway with pulling n00bs into the Free Software Community, that can only be a good thing.

[bob_c_b]

1. I believe Mark has played the role as he saw fit....and I admire it.
2. Yes, I firmly and rootedly believe that the community can trust him, I back his efforts, I cannot believe that anyone else wouldnt believe the same.
3. Positive affect over the community as a whole......and ultimately achieving that which we all desire...Linux to the User.

You summed up my exact feelings pretty well, I agree with all of your points.

[Brunellus]

If the FOSS world has a downside, it is the amount of fratricidal hatred that I seem to detect from hard-core Debianistas, directed at Ubuntu.

[KingBahamut]

Debian itself has show its elitism for a long time. My first contact with the elitist nature of debian came from a fellow employee when I was working in the Data Forensics business. He was just as elitist as most other hardcore debian users/maintainers. So much infact that to him would be the condemnation of the use of any other distro other than Debian ( I used Slackware and I got flak from him all the time ).

My point in this posting, and the previous DCCA post is simple.

If we keep our Humanism , then eventually the End user will respect us, understand us, and want to stand next to us. Appreciation is a wonderful thing: It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well. This apparently is not the way of many Debian thinkers. I wish it were so. With that mutual appreciation our cause and aims can only be met with even greater fervor than they are now, and be capable of furthering our aims outside to the rest of the world. The predjudice we take from the outside is only an opinion pushed by others too afraid to judge us. They cannot, they will not. Because we are largely successful at what we do.

as I said before, Im just some guy......I might be wrong....

[az]

If the FOSS world has a downside, it is the amount of fratricidal hatred that I seem to detect from hard-core Debianistas, directed at Ubuntu.
I have said this before. People tend to take the words of a very small number of people and think they are representative of Debian as a whole.

I would tend to think most DDs are happy to coexist with Ubuntu.

[alred]

QUOTE :: "as I said before, Im just some guy......I might be wrong...."

yup ... you are wrong indeed , the key word is "no sympathy" :twisted:

ok , just kidding , i guess the reason for this "desired diversification" among us which is the powerless(what ever it means) but intelligent(sort of) is that the new will grow old and the old doesnt like the new , everyone of us will potentially get ourselves caught up in that cycle of muddled-headedness ...


i have to requote ::


If we keep our Humanism , then eventually the End user will respect us, understand us, and want to stand next to us. Appreciation is a wonderful thing: It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well ....

With that mutual appreciation our cause and aims can only be met with even greater fervor than they are now, and be capable of furthering our aims outside to the rest of the world. The predjudice we take from the outside is only an opinion pushed by others too afraid to judge us. They cannot, they will not. Because we are largely successful at what we do ...


so far the best writing , but i'm just some guy, i might be wrong ...