Are Docks Useful?

[Krydahl]

I see a lot of threads around here with people trying to get various flavours of dock to work.

I was wondering what you feel the advantages of a dock is over a panel? I've tinkered around with the default gnome panel and got it looking ok. It seems to be able to do much the same things as a dock. However, since I've never used a dock, maybe I'm missing something.

Do they enhance usability in some way, or are they just eye candy?

[Tristam Green]

I use AWN, and I use it over the panel for two reasons:

1 - Eye-candy. I like the way it looks and behaves.
2 - Stacks Applet. I love using my home folder with the little folding-out motion. Makes browsing easy since I don't have to actually *open* the home folder.

[LaRoza]

When I used Compiz, I had a dock (AWN).

I liked it, although I usually don't like stuff on my desktop. It made it very convenient to open apps and directories.

It is easy to install, just check out their site.

[staticvoid]

i used it.. but then confused apps that were open to launchers... i might like stacks... maybe i'll try it out again. will awn work with kde without compiz? can it work without a composting manager? i'd be interested :) in a light weight dock...

sv

[Iehova]

AWN needs Compiz (or Beryl etc.) to function.

I love AWN, especially for the stacks applets. Mostly it's just eye-candy though.

[Quillz]

I find a Dock is both genuinely useful and pretty, but most usability experts would agree that a panel/taskbar is better in the long run in terms of managing information. One of the problems with the Dock is that it mixes functionality. There's no clear-cut difference between just an application shortcut, a running application and which are simply minimized windows. One of the arguments in favor of the panel/taskbar is that these issues are not present, as each function has its own dedicated area of screen real estate.

This article was written for Mac OS X, but applies to any OS that can use a Dock: Top 10 Reasons the Dock Sucks (http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.html)

[phenest]

AWN needs Compiz (or Beryl etc.) to function.

If you're using Gnome (Hardy Alpha 4), you can use Metacity without need for Compiz.

[LaRoza]

If you're using Gnome (Hardy Alpha 4), you can use Metacity without need for Compiz.

But AWN needs Compiz, and won't run on Metacity.

[CJ56]

I was a bit suspicious of Awn to start with, thinking it just a bit of candy, but the more I use it the more I find to like about it -

The stacks feature is a big plus & I do find it useful to have all my most common apps and menus in one spot & a bit bigger & easier to click on than up on the taskbar

Plus it does look kind of cute...

[Darkhack]

This article was written for Mac OS X, but applies to any OS that can use a Dock: Top 10 Reasons the Dock Sucks (http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.html)

The reasons in that article are all the reasons I don't use a dock. I honestly believe the only reason Apple chose to use it was for eye-candy. There are too many usability problems with the dock. I remember the first time I used it, it was quite frustrating because the difference between a launcher and open application was unclear to me (I didn't understand what the black triangle meant at first). The dock has a triangle for open applications but a window only appears in the dock if it is minimized. Thus clicking the Photoshop icon if you have 20 images open brings all 20 windows to the foreground. Good luck finding the one you want. Managing windows on OS X is frustrating. Exposé had to be created and even then it doesn't do a great job. You have to mouse over to see window titles. I'm really surprised that a company like Apple that prides itself on usability would use such a horribly inefficient means of managing windows so that they could get better eye-candy.

[Tristam Green]

I also set up the Plugger Stacks applet to handle any USB drives I stick onto the machine (I set it to hide all the partitions of my HDD). Again, just as useful as the Home Directory set with Stacks.

[Krydahl]

OK, interesting stuff - especially the link to the 10 reasons doc, thanks Quillz.

I'm kind of leaning to not bothering based on the input so far. People like stacks though. I'll have to look into that a bit more. I wonder if we could develop something that does the same job as a panel applet? (I'll have to go check I understand what the stack is precisely...)

Arranging windows and the confusion between running apps and shortcuts came up several times. I have to say that personally I've currently done away with the windows list on my panel. With 4 desktops and the ability to rollup windows, I don't actually feel the need to minimize them that often.

[FranMichaels]

I use AWN w/ compiz-fusion.

I genuinely like it. The eye candy is a plus, I personally prefer the launcher behavior.
It works as expected, the minimize (I mean the animation, as the window shrinks to the location in the dock) shows where the application is in the bar, and works fine with multiple desktops.

As for it not being useful when you have 20 apps open, I disagree.
I would argue the taskbar is useless in that scenario. Try it. You'll get part of the apps name.

If you had 20 instances of one app that would be a problem regardless of taskbar or dock. In that case, I'd suggest finding an application that meets your needs with tabs, or use a lot of virtual desktops. :lolflag:

When I do have many of the same type (let's say nautilus) I just use the shift-switch (set to alt + tab). I get a nice big preview. and I work quick enough with that. and can see/remember the position on the dock. Also, just hovering the mouse over the icon gives an instant tool-tip description, also a helpful option in many cases.)
Meaningful thumbnails do help. For example, working with multiple images in the GIMP is a pleasure with the dock. :KS

To the OP, just try both, and see which one you like (or you can even use both, put a taskbar at the top, dock on the bottom.) I hope soon there will be a 2d compiz mode, so one can use AWN without having fancy 3D hardware capabilities. :KS

I wonder if Ubuntu would standardize on a dock in that case...

P.S. I haven't tried stacks, I will try it since so many of you like it :)

P.P.S. I looked at the Top 10 reasons a docks sucks: 10,9,7,5,4,3,2, and 1 don't seem to apply to AWN, although a few of those would be issues if someone goes out of her way to configure it as such.

[SomeGuyDude]

I often talk about a "physical" desktop, and AWN is crucial to that. Rather than having a standard "computer panel", the dock looks like little object sitting on a glass table. No ugly rectangles.

Also, the applets are GREAT. I have the shutdown/logout button, main menu, volume, show desktop, terminal, and a trash can. I've basically distilled everything I needed two panels for plus a desktop icon into one little dock.

Once I get the notification area thing.

[MONODA]

well i never could get AWN to work for some reason... But when I use a mac i feel i work much slower than when I use ubuntu with a panel. Eye candy usually just bothers me cuz i like everything plain and simple (the arch way) so i really just preper the panel. The one plus a dock has is stacks but then again you can just use a drawer in a panel whichisnt as good but does the job.

[getaboat]

I had AWN for a while and dumped it. They eye candy factor is good as it is with Beryl generally , but when I was trying to be productive (i.e web site dev/editing) I found it was more of an annoyance. It also got buggy when it was most inconevient.

Personally I want a simple > terminal interface < beryl.

I suppose it depends on what you use you computer for.

Now different desktops on different workspaces - that would be great.

[leftorvo]

Docks look great, especially when you get big nice looking icons on them. Too bad the apple one atleast isnt very functional, they only care about looking good, because they just want to sell you it.

[snakeeyes]

I don't think u need compiz to run awn on the latest version of gnome, all awn needs is a compositing manager and I think the latest version of gnome can do compositing just like kde.

[FuturePilot]

I don't think u need compiz to run awn on the latest version of gnome, all awn needs is a compositing manager and I think the latest version of gnome can do compositing just like kde.

True, the new version of Metacity in Hardy has composite support. :guitar:

[ssam]

they mean that you dont have to care about whether an application is alread open or not.

so when you want to get to your email you dont have to think. is it already open, in which case you have to look through your task bar to find it, or if its closed you have to click on its launcher, to start it.

[smartboyathome]

I don't really like docs. Plus, I haven't come across one yet which works with e17. I don't care, though, as E17 doesn't need it, it has enough eye candy already. :D

[intense.ego]

Am I the only one who uses kiba-dock and not AWN? Is there any clear advantage one has over the other?

[SomeGuyDude]

Am I the only one who uses kiba-dock and not AWN? Is there any clear advantage one has over the other?

Kiba's slow for me, I can't make it so an app in my launcher will not show up as a 2nd icon but WILL have another icon for another instance (it either limits itself to a single appearance on the bar or the launcher icon and another for each instance), for some reason the "show desktop" icon is always anchored to another icon and I can never move it without another dragging with it...

Kiba looks pretty but it's incredibly unfinished.

[phenest]

But AWN needs Compiz, and won't run on Metacity.

Incorrect. I'm using AWN right now without Compiz.

[forrestcupp]

I have a question about it.

I have an ATI video card with the latest drivers and Compiz running. But if I want to do anything opengl, I have to turn Compiz off and revert to Metacity without compositing. So if AWN has to have compositing, what happens to it when I have to turn compositing off every time I play a game? Does AWN crash or close or what? That wouldn't be good if I use AWN as a replacement for my Gnome panel and it closes every time I turn Compiz off. And I don't really want a panel and AWN.

[Sunnz]

Incorrect. I'm using AWN right now without Compiz.

How? What is the minimum requirement for AWN?

[billgoldberg]

I used awn before and never use it anymore, it gets in the way to much.

It's just eyecandy, the standard panels are more effective.

[FuturePilot]

How? What is the minimum requirement for AWN?

AWN doesn't need Compiz specifically, all it needs is a composite manager, doesn't matter which. As long as it can composite it will work. Xcompmgr, XFCE's built in composite manager, KDE's build in composite manager, Metacity's new composite manager, etc etc.

[forrestcupp]

So no one can tell me what happens to AWN when you turn Compiz off?

[billgoldberg]

If you turn of compiz fusion awn will dissapear.

[igknighted]

I see a lot of threads around here with people trying to get various flavours of dock to work.

I was wondering what you feel the advantages of a dock is over a panel? I've tinkered around with the default gnome panel and got it looking ok. It seems to be able to do much the same things as a dock. However, since I've never used a dock, maybe I'm missing something.

Do they enhance usability in some way, or are they just eye candy?

Do they need compositing and other advanced features? No. That aspect is eye candy. However, having icons for my top-used applications in easy reach at all times without having to navigate menu's is a huge usability plus. AWN also provides some nice little applets so I don't need to run a separate applet program like screenlets or superkaramba.

PS, if you want a couple simply, awesome low resource docks, try ksmoothdock (much better than the newer kooldock) and Wbar (silky smooth, manual setup though)

[igknighted]

If you turn of compiz fusion awn will dissapear.

Use any compositing WM (kwin4, xfwm4, xcompmgr, compiz/beryl) and AWN work work perfectly. I think you can even use it with metacity's experimental composite support if you are running a version with that capability.

[AsoSako]

I have used AWN for months and personally finally gave up on it. I found it annoying, and I could never get over that feeling. It just felt it was kind of unneeded and ruining my Dektop experience.

[Krydahl]

However, having icons for my top-used applications in easy reach at all times without having to navigate menu's is a huge usability plus.

I already have launchers for my commonly used apps on my panel. And that my issue really. So far as I can see a dock provides:

Launchers (got those)
Active windows management (got that)
applets & notifications (got those)

What's it doing that my panel isn't?

The only answer I seem to be getting is stacks. This doesn't seem that far advanced from something like the places menu. At the moment I'm using one of the USP variants. I can add any file or folder I want to its places menu.

I admit that the docks look great and I'm not immune to eye candy (I'm running compiz after all) but I was just trying to clarify whether that's all I'm getting if I add a dock or if there's a usability plus too.

[igknighted]

I already have launchers for my commonly used apps on my panel. And that my issue really. So far as I can see a dock provides:

Launchers (got those)
Active windows management (got that)
applets & notifications (got those)

What's it doing that my panel isn't?

The only answer I seem to be getting is stacks. This doesn't seem that far advanced from something like the places menu. At the moment I'm using one of the USP variants. I can add any file or folder I want to its places menu.

I admit that the docks look great and I'm not immune to eye candy (I'm running compiz after all) but I was just trying to clarify whether that's all I'm getting if I add a dock or if there's a usability plus too.

Have you /really/ tried using those features on a gnome panel? It can be done, yes. But you have to fight it the whole way and it never works out like it should. You get itty-bitty icons that are worthless unless you make the panel really big, you get poor support for hiding and other features, and the gnome-panel doesn't scale well.

In KDE4 these things can all be implemented by a plasma panel in a much more usable way. Even in KDE3 they can implemented acceptably, but not perfectly. Not to mention it takes a good bit of setup to get these right. Using AWN (or another dock) gives you a tailor-made solution without fuss.

I use AWN because it provides the bahviour I am looking for as far as hiding (does not disappear, simply goes behind windows so can see a little of it at all times as do not use maximized windows). It behaves logically and predictably, and it looks great. I couldn't get the same from gnome-panel, so this is where I stay. I also leave a tiny panel on top with menus, clock, systray and a power management applet visible at all times.

[juxtaposed]

You get itty-bitty icons that are worthless unless you make the panel really big,

The icons on panels are plenty big enough to click on them (compatable to the "submit reply" button I am about to click). Or did you mean something else?

[igknighted]

The icons on panels are plenty big enough to click on them (compatable to the "submit reply" button I am about to click). Or did you mean something else?

Not as big as my AWN icons...

With the gnome panel, I can click the icons, but it requires effort to make sure I have the right one. The bigger targets on my AWN dock can be hit effortlessly. Also, the dock gives better visual feedback to cut down on the effort of hitting the proper target (fading/pulsing/spinning etc. icons) which helps as well. It might seem petty, but I'm a really lazy trackpad user, so it makes a big difference.

FWIW, I struggle with the small forum controls here... I can hit the reply/post buttons just fine, but with the trackpad in tight spaces like the forum jump, I often miss by one.

[Sunnz]

I personally don't think the Dock is eye candy only... I've used Mac for over a year, at first yes it does seem like an eye candy, but you get over it in a month or two anyway... so it is what is actually does that I am keep using it for.

I mean, it is a graphical user interface - provide functionality to the user by it's graphics... so good GUI should naturally look good, like good furniture.

[SomeGuyDude]

I already have launchers for my commonly used apps on my panel. And that my issue really. So far as I can see a dock provides:

Launchers (got those)
Active windows management (got that)
applets & notifications (got those)

What's it doing that my panel isn't?

The only answer I seem to be getting is stacks. This doesn't seem that far advanced from something like the places menu. At the moment I'm using one of the USP variants. I can add any file or folder I want to its places menu.

I admit that the docks look great and I'm not immune to eye candy (I'm running compiz after all) but I was just trying to clarify whether that's all I'm getting if I add a dock or if there's a usability plus too.

Well, it puts them all together in an attractive and uniform manner that looks a lot better, functions a lot more smoothly, and integrates into some peoples' desktops far better than a panel ever could hope to.

It's dumb to ask what it does that your panel doesn't, because a Yugo "does" the same thing as a Mustang, but why do people drive Mustangs (ignoring the "prestige" part)?

It makes the journey smoother, and looks way nicer.

[forrestcupp]

If you turn of compiz fusion awn will dissapear.

See, that is my problem. ATI's new drivers are great compared to their old ones, but I still have to keep turning compositing off every time I want to do anything that is OpenGL. I want a dock to replace my panel; I don't want both. But I can't really have my only menu access disappearing every time I need to shut Compiz off.

I really want to use a dock, but until ATI fixes some of their bugs, I guess I can't.