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anaconda
February 15th, 2008, 08:53 PM
I was today on a big computer shop near me (www.verkkokauppa.com) and to my amazement I noticed that they now sell a cheap computer with ubuntu pre-installed! GREAT ;)

except....

it wasn't made very appealing to potential buyers.
1.There was a big wide-screen monitor, but ubuntu:s max resolution was only 1024x768..
2.Network card was not properly configured.. with windows machines next to that machine internet worked and customers could surf the net.. not so with ubuntu.
3.The integrated graphics card wasn't set up properly (that is why the max resolution was 1024x768)
4. the desktop background picture had "Kubuntu" with big stretched letters while it was obviously Gnome not KDE..

So either ubuntu really sucks or that just isn't very good marketing.

k2t0f12d
February 15th, 2008, 09:02 PM
Go back to the store and offer to fix their demonstration model for them :lolflag:

cmat
February 15th, 2008, 09:07 PM
I started offering it as a substitute for Windows Vista for a few businesses I deal with. Lots of people want it but unfortunately it can't run AutoCAD 2008.

icechen1
February 15th, 2008, 09:34 PM
I was today on a big computer shop near me (www.verkkokauppa.com) and to my amazement I noticed that they now sell a cheap computer with ubuntu pre-installed! GREAT ;)

except....

it wasn't made very appealing to potential buyers.
1.There was a big wide-screen monitor, but ubuntu:s max resolution was only 1024x768..
2.Network card was not properly configured.. with windows machines next to that machine internet worked and customers could surf the net.. not so with ubuntu.
3.The integrated graphics card wasn't set up properly (that is why the max resolution was 1024x768)
4. the desktop background picture had "Kubuntu" with big stretched letters while it was obviously Gnome not KDE..

So either ubuntu really sucks or that just isn't very good marketing.

what is the graphic card?

anaconda
February 15th, 2008, 10:39 PM
Go back to the store and offer to fix their demonstration model for them :lolflag:

well.. that's an idea ;) Should be easy to get it working a LOT better.

and "icecen1": It was an integrated card, but don't remember what exactly.. propably intel:s??

icechen1
February 15th, 2008, 10:47 PM
well.. that's an idea ;) Should be easy to get it working a LOT better.

and "icecen1": It was an integrated card, but don't remember what exactly.. propably intel:s??

well,intel should work out-of-the-box and set the right resolution.That's strange.

k2t0f12d
February 15th, 2008, 10:50 PM
Not if it hasnt been defined in xorg.conf

zmjjmz
February 15th, 2008, 11:20 PM
I've noticed this too.
For example, The Good Guys in Australia sell an Acer laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled, but it has half the RAM of all the other laptops, which means, to an uneducated user, that it's worse. they also don't mention Ubuntu at all in the FAQs, so there's no way of knowing that Ubuntu doesn't need as much RAM.
In addition, Dell's laptops with Ubuntu had a buggy mouse driver, which also raised some questions about Dell's integrity when it comes to Linux.
At least it's on display though.

Hmarroqu
February 15th, 2008, 11:23 PM
well,intel should work out-of-the-box and set the right resolution.That's strange.


They did it on purpose....they are trying to make ubuntu look bad...:mad:

aaaantoine
February 15th, 2008, 11:32 PM
You should only sell a computer with Ubuntu if you can get all the hardware to work properly in Ubuntu. Otherwise, selling computers with Ubuntu is bad, not good.

icechen1
February 15th, 2008, 11:42 PM
They did it on purpose....they are trying to make ubuntu look bad...:mad:
M$ or Apple paid them :mad:

macogw
February 15th, 2008, 11:43 PM
well,intel should work out-of-the-box and set the right resolution.That's strange.
The i810 driver (the "old" Intel driver) only goes up to 1024x768 unless you install 915resolutions to patch it for a higher resolution. The new -intel driver can do higher resolutions on its own, though if you don't set a higher resolution in Screens & Graphics or in Screen Resolution, it'll probably default to 1024x768.

Spike-X
February 16th, 2008, 09:38 AM
You'd think they could at least go to the trouble of setting the thing up properly.

smartboyathome
February 17th, 2008, 07:01 PM
what is the graphic card?

Probably an NVidia card. :(

Vitamin-Carrot
February 17th, 2008, 07:27 PM
dicksmiths here in Wellington have those acer aspire laptops on display with ubuntu, they arenít set up properly either. I was just a normal customer looking for a 2.5" to 3.5" IDE cable i noticed this and fixed the ones they had on display I was asked by a store monkey if they could help me, I turned around and said "no sorry I just helped you" ...Iím not surprised that these machine arenít being setup correctly so why not offer your services to them as most likely these retail store have staff that have never touched a lunix distro before.

Personally i think its good that these machine are available but its also a double edged blade if a customer buys one thinking "oh sweet Iím not paying X amount of monies for something else" but doesnít know how to use ubuntu themselves how are they going to get support if the staff at the store donít know how to use ubuntu either???

At the same time most companies like dell and acer donít support the OS as its left entirely up to the user to do with as they see fit and the most they will do is just blast everything away and reinstall the OS (i.e HP Compaq Recovery Partition) losing all the users personal data while doing it.

So yes I think its good provided that the user can get the right support from the store/companies they bought the machine from when they need it.

bobbybobington
February 17th, 2008, 07:46 PM
I think it can be done, but these companies are way too sloppy. They think if they build it, people will flock to the product. WRONG! They should train their staff, or at least hire someone who is competent w/ ubuntu. Heck they could find some really good people through the forums. They could also partner up with canonical if they really needed to. It seems like a lot of these companies are relying on viral marketing and online communities too much. Without a solid product, some real promotion, a competitive price and selling it in a visible place, they are just shooting themselves in the foot. I do think system76 is doing a very good job though, and Dell could do it better but it seems that they are waiting for ubuntu to really breakthrough.

Vadi
February 17th, 2008, 07:49 PM
Um, of course it's good.

But what is even better is excellent marketing. Make it appealing, make it nice, make someone want to get it and be proud of it.

I got a system76 laptop, quite happy with it. They went beyond the basic ubuntu install and installed flash, java for me (and probably some other things I haven't noticed - I installed ubuntu last time half a year ago) and I'm really happy.

Kevanx
February 22nd, 2008, 10:55 PM
Of course it's good! It's another viable operating system, and needs to be treated as such. Plus, the average consumer, whether or not they've even heard of gnu/linux, has no idea what gnome or kde would look like. The default theming in Ubuntu looks good, and it doesn't look like windows or apple. Having it on store shelves is perfect, no matter what minor inaccuracies are present. Anyone keen enough to be concerned about screen resolution at first glance probably at least knows of gnu/linux. It's the only way that people will become comfortable with big scary gnu/linux, so any exposure is good exposure.

AsoSako
February 22nd, 2008, 11:57 PM
I like Ubuntu but...
I don't believe computers should come with a preinstalled OS. It seems wrong because it doesn't give people a fair choice. I know this can't be completelly and corectly applied to Ubuntu currently, but it's the same concept as Microsoft's policies nontheless and it is still wrong. Hardware and software should come separatelly thus giving everyone a fair choice. If you want Ubuntu than get Ubuntu, if you don't get something else. Why should someone else do it for you? Yes it might be easier for those who don't have much experience with computers, but this argument can surely be countered with the development of an easy isntallation process. Something like put the CD in, boot up, answer a couple of questions, and you are golden.

Second of all yes it might expand the Linux market share a bit, but is that worth it? I though Ubuntu was all about freedom. We shouldn't push an OS into people's faces even if we believe Microsoft is the devil (Which I certainly don't disagree with, but that's another story). Therefore - No I don't think selling computers with Ubuntu is good. Don't take me wrong I don't think selling computers with any OS is good not Ubuntu specifically.

destructaball
February 23rd, 2008, 12:14 AM
Why in gods name can't they sell computers without OS's it would save lyk £100 per computer and u could put any linux on it.

sicofante
February 23rd, 2008, 12:57 AM
Why in gods name can't they sell computers without OS's it would save lyk £100 per computer and u could put any linux on it.
First of all, I can find plenty of computers without an OS installed. They're not the majority, of course, but it isn't hard to find them either, especially laptops.

Second: only geeks (=someone knowing/willing to install an OS) want such thing. That's probably less than 1% of the population. That's why they sell the systems ready to go and it's quite right.

And third: OEM Windows doesn't cost 100 pounds. Even a single OEM Vista Home license costs something like 75 euros (around 55 pounds) to a system builder. Now think how much 10.000 licenses will cost to a manufacturer...


Um, of course it's good.

But what is even better is excellent marketing. Make it appealing, make it nice, make someone want to get it and be proud of it.

I got a system76 laptop, quite happy with it. They went beyond the basic ubuntu install and installed flash, java for me (and probably some other things I haven't noticed - I installed ubuntu last time half a year ago) and I'm really happy.
Exactly. I'm planning to put Ubuntu in the workstations I sell (I have already sold some with it), and of course I'll put everything I can legally put in there (and that's a lot, especially in Europe).

Of course the main obstacle is what people demand. The more Ubuntu marketing is out there, the easier it will be for smaller system builders to put the OS in their machines.

3rdalbum
February 23rd, 2008, 01:42 AM
And third: OEM Windows doesn't cost 100 pounds. Even a single OEM Vista Home license costs something like 75 euros (around 55 pounds) to a system builder. Now think how much 10.000 licenses will cost to a manufacturer...

It's impossible to buy 0.1 licenses from Microsoft, much less 0.001 licenses; so you only needed to write "Now think how much 10 licenses will cost".

Vadi
February 23rd, 2008, 01:56 AM
I like Ubuntu but...
I don't believe computers should come with a preinstalled OS. It seems wrong because it doesn't give people a fair choice. I know this can't be completelly and corectly applied to Ubuntu currently, but it's the same concept as Microsoft's policies nontheless and it is still wrong. Hardware and software should come separatelly thus giving everyone a fair choice. If you want Ubuntu than get Ubuntu, if you don't get something else. Why should someone else do it for you? Yes it might be easier for those who don't have much experience with computers, but this argument can surely be countered with the development of an easy isntallation process. Something like put the CD in, boot up, answer a couple of questions, and you are golden.

Second of all yes it might expand the Linux market share a bit, but is that worth it? I though Ubuntu was all about freedom. We shouldn't push an OS into people's faces even if we believe Microsoft is the devil (Which I certainly don't disagree with, but that's another story). Therefore - No I don't think selling computers with Ubuntu is good. Don't take me wrong I don't think selling computers with any OS is good not Ubuntu specifically.

That's a valid point.

However not when someone is inept and just wants to buy a computer and have it work.

Iehova
February 23rd, 2008, 03:09 AM
It's impossible to buy 0.1 licenses from Microsoft, much less 0.001 licenses; so you only needed to write "Now think how much 10 licenses will cost".

I believe the poster is from Spain, and although I don't speak Spanish on most of the continent periods are used to denote large numbers and commas in place of the english decimal point.

Err... hence, a car might cost Ä9.999,99

AsoSako
February 23rd, 2008, 03:29 AM
That's a valid point.

However not when someone is inept and just wants to buy a computer and have it work.
True. Yet the sad part is that an inept person like this wouldn't choose Linux over Windows... At least it is probably only 1 in 10000 that would do so. Anyhow sorry this is probably getting a little off topic.

Vadi
February 23rd, 2008, 04:08 AM
Yes, they will. It all depends on the marketing.

Here's how it usually goes for me:

a) me: "Hey, check out this cool video."
p: "Wooow, dude. How can I get that?"

b) me: "Hey, check out this cool video."
p: "Looks nice, but I'm not interested in all that snazzy stuff."

me: "Okay - it doesn't need an anti-virus, and the firewall never gets in your way."
p: "Where do I get it?"

c) p: "Hey, I heard you use Ubuntu... what is that?"
me: "It's a very sweet free os. Much better than windows - it's faster, doesn't die on you, doesn't need a third-party anti-virus to keep it 'secure', and has awesome support."

p: "Sweet, where can I give it a try?"


^^ Those are the basic scenarios. Some require more explaining and persuasion. Oh, and do I love grub for making Ubuntu the default choice upon booting. Makes life so much easier.

Mary.Riley
February 23rd, 2008, 05:14 AM
It seems to be they went to some effort to make Ubuntu look worse than it really is, especially with the Kubuntu wallpaper in GNOME. Ubuntu obviously doesn't come with that pre-installed.

∆niad
February 23rd, 2008, 05:27 AM
Why not? Some people are too lazy and/or tech incompetent to install an OS. It isn't like this is a new trend either. Dell and System 76 (http://www.system76.com/) have been doing this for a while now.

igknighted
February 23rd, 2008, 06:24 AM
You should only sell a computer with Ubuntu if you can get all the hardware to work properly in Ubuntu. Otherwise, selling computers with Ubuntu is bad, not good.

Yeah, they did it with Vista and look what happened...

kooolrock
February 23rd, 2008, 10:32 AM
Go back to the store and offer to fix their demonstration model for them :lolflag:
+2

kooolrock
February 23rd, 2008, 10:33 AM
I've noticed this too.
For example, The Good Guys in Australia sell an Acer laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled, but it has half the RAM of all the other laptops, which means, to an uneducated user, that it's worse. they also don't mention Ubuntu at all in the FAQs, so there's no way of knowing that Ubuntu doesn't need as much RAM.
In addition, Dell's laptops with Ubuntu had a buggy mouse driver, which also raised some questions about Dell's integrity when it comes to Linux.
At least it's on display though.
microsoft must be paying them!!!

sicofante
February 23rd, 2008, 10:03 PM
It's impossible to buy 0.1 licenses from Microsoft, much less 0.001 licenses; so you only needed to write "Now think how much 10 licenses will cost".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator


I believe the poster is from Spain, and although I don't speak Spanish on most of the continent periods are used to denote large numbers and commas in place of the english decimal point.

Err... hence, a car might cost Ä9.999,99

That's right.

GerryB
February 24th, 2008, 04:59 PM
This just plopped into my e-mail:
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/shared/mediaplayer/blank_page?c=us&~lt=popup&videoPath=http://content.onstreammedia.com/content/dell/content/&allowResize=FALSE&sliderState=CLOSED&sliderLocked=TRUE&playOnStart=TRUE&playOnStart=TRUE&targetedMovie=200705/video/Linux_101_whats_all_the_fuss_400k.flv&isWidescreen=undefined
I think this is a good beginning. They even mention installing distros other than Ubuntu. Good show Dell!