"Microsoft is quite frankly a wonder of the modern age." -Ian, Whitwick, England

[YourSurrogateGod]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4274340.stm

I read some of the comments here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4274650.stm) about microsoft :roll: , people have got to smell the coffee...

[YourSurrogateGod]

Can you say pwn3d?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4643195.stm

[DJ_Max]

Ouch, talk about "payback".

But I do agree with the statement, but maybe in a different sense. I'm more "wondering" how and why something like Microsoft has lasted so long.

[YourSurrogateGod]

2 positive things come to mind when I think about microsoft (I'll probably get flamed for this >_< .)

Microsoft was very effective in bringing computers to the masses (albeit not always in a nice and competitive-friendly fashion.) Gates gives billions to worthwhile charities and such, you don't see the CEO of Exxon opening his wallet wiiiiiiiiiiiide for the poor aids stricken african countries.

[majikstreet]

2 positive things come to mind when I think about microsoft (I'll probably get flamed for this >_< .)

Microsoft was very effective in bringing computers to the masses (albeit not always in a nice and competitive-friendly fashion.) Gates gives billions to worthwhile charities and such, you don't see the CEO of Exxon opening his wallet wiiiiiiiiiiiide for the poor aids stricken african countries.
I agree with you partially... Bill Gates does give a lot of money to charities..

[YourSurrogateGod]

I agree with you partially... Bill Gates does give a lot of money to charities..
Why partially? Just curious...

[fordfan753]

I don't care about any possible flamings. I don't think Microsoft and Bill Gates are bad. I enjoy jokes at their expense, but I don't hate them or anything. I use "whatever works" a while ago that was Windows 98se, and Windows 2000. While Bill's business practices may be treading the legal line a little, this is more a question of ethics. I think Bill should get more credit, he built Microsoft from nothing to become the richest man in the world. No one else can say that. His company getting so big is just a testimate to his business skills. I want to say, I don't use Windows on any computers except for the family computer, which other people have to use, I have my own, which I can do anything to, and I choose not to install Windows on it. I think there is a common misconception that just because you use open source software, you must hate Windows, Bill Gates, and everything about them. Windows is a good operating system in it's own right. Go ahead, flame away! I am pro open source, and have been for a while, and I will never go back, but at least I can give Windows, Microsoft, and Bill Gate the respect they deserve.

[YourSurrogateGod]

I don't care about any possible flamings. I don't think Microsoft and Bill Gates are bad. I enjoy jokes at their expense, but I don't hate them or anything. I use "whatever works" a while ago that was Windows 98se, and Windows 2000. While Bill's business practices may be treading the legal line a little, this is more a question of ethics. I think Bill should get more credit, he built Microsoft from nothing to become the richest man in the world. No one else can say that. His company getting so big is just a testimate to his business skills. I want to say, I don't use Windows on any computers except for the family computer, which other people have to use, I have my own, which I can do anything to, and I choose not to install Windows on it. I think there is a common misconception that just because you use open source software, you must hate Windows, Bill Gates, and everything about them. Windows is a good operating system in it's own right. Go ahead, flame away! I am pro open source, and have been for a while, and I will never go back, but at least I can give Windows, Microsoft, and Bill Gate the respect they deserve.
Errm... you're going off on a tangent dude :roll: .

[fordfan753]

Errm... you're going off on a tangent dude :roll: .

Hehe, sorry, I'm in a ranting mood :P

[YourSurrogateGod]

Hehe, sorry, I'm in a ranting mood :P
That's cool :) .

I've used windows for a good portion of my life. I still have XP for games primarily and .NET, but I spend most of my time in Ubuntu (free legal stuff is good :) .)

[DJ_Max]

Microsfoft business practices are good, for making money that is, aside from their illegal dealings for which they're getting sued for, which is probably how Windows has stayed around for so long.

[fordfan753]

I would also use 2000 or XP if I was a gamer, Linux is improving it's gaming, but it's not quite there. I just object to people criticizing MS for everything, when everything is a choice, this thread *probably* wasn't the best place for my rant. ;)

[TravisNewman]

Quick reminder: Bill Gates is not the CEO anymore. Ballmer has been the CEO for quite some time now. They're no longer Bill's business practices :)

[Qrk]

You can get an Xbox nowadays for about $150... Windows XP Pro is $200. I think the gaming problem on Linux has been solved by our good friend Microsoft.

[YourSurrogateGod]

You can get an Xbox nowadays for about $150... Windows XP Pro is $200. I think the gaming problem on Linux has been solved by our good friend Microsoft.
???

[xequence]

Bill diserves credit, but he could have done it better.

I do use windows now. There is just something about double clicking on an exe and installing it. There is just something about having 95% of the software avalable, for windows. And by using linux all the time would waste my account on demonoid ;)

Still, I use both OSes. There are good things about windows and linux, and there are bad things about windows and linux.

About gaming, I only play a couple games: Doom 95, and Quake 1. I think they both have linux versions. Its just installing those in windows is much less hassle. If it isnt a .deb for linux (which not alot is) then I have to compile, which is still very hard for me.

[macgyver2]

I agree with you partially... Bill Gates does give a lot of money to charities..Why partially? Just curious...
I agree partially about the charity of Bill Gates being positive, too...and here's why. In another thread the charity of Bill Gate's was mentioned and discussed and someone said something along the lines of "well how much do you give?"

I tend not to like when someone points at a celebrity and says how great they are for donating money to a good cause...and base it on the amount they give. That's very nice that celebs donate at all. But it's very rare to find them donating money if doing so would cut into what they need to live (and live very comfortably). What's a couple billion dollars when you're worth $50 billion? On the other hand, someone who's worth $50,000 and gives a couple thousand...they feel it. And I admire them a lot more.

[bob_c_b]

I think Bill should get more credit, he built Microsoft from nothing to become the richest man in the world. No one else can say that. His company getting so big is just a testimate to his business skills.

This is only a relevant "fact" if you ignore how MS got so big; double dealing, strong arming OEMs, fixing prices, etc... Microsoft has worked hard to eliminate competition and subvert open standards; becoming rich by stifling competition and manipulating your business partners is hardly worthy of any praise. You would also have to completely ignore their current effort to establish DRM, lock in your data to their proprietary formats and spread gross misinformation about what OSS is about. Becoming the world's richest man via illegal or unethical methods is not admirable.

It's also a popular misconception that without MS the PC would not be where it is today, thanks to MS bullying OEMs and arranging exclusionary contracts that prevent most PC makers from loading alternate OSs throughout the late 90s we will never know what could have been. MS didn't drive the PC boom, the Internet did and I don't think the entire computer industry would have missed that opportunity.

MS was found guilty of maintaining an illegal monopoly, sadly the Bush administration took office before the penalty phase was complete. Luckily, much like IBM in the 70s it appears the market has adapted in order to overcome the many barriers MS has put in place to stifle competition.

[blastus]

This is only a relevant "fact" if you ignore how MS got so big; double dealing, strong arming OEMs, fixing prices, etc... Microsoft has worked hard to eliminate competition and subvert open standards; becoming rich by stifling competition and manipulating your business partners is hardly worthy of any praise. You would also have to completely ignore their current effort to establish DRM, lock in your data to their proprietary formats and spread gross misinformation about what OSS is about. Becoming the world's richest man via illegal or unethical methods is not admirable.

It's also a popular misconception that without MS the PC would not be where it is today, thanks to MS bullying OEMs and arranging exclusionary contracts that prevent most PC makers from loading alternate OSs throughout the late 90s we will never know what could have been. MS didn't drive the PC boom, the Internet did and I don't think the entire computer industry would have missed that opportunity.

MS was found guilty of maintaining an illegal monopoly, sadly the Bush administration took office before the penalty phase was complete. Luckily, much like IBM in the 70s it appears the market has adapted in order to overcome the many barriers MS has put in place to stifle competition.

Exactly my point. They are just getting worse and worse every year. Their only interest today is to sustain their monopoly. The more power they get the more paranoid they get about losing their stranglehold on computing. It is like an old lady that is terrified of mice but there's only one mouse left in the house and that mouse scares her more than all of the other mice combined. But that one mouse will eventually grow up and morph into a big rat and will eat the old bag's broomstick. :)

[barsanuphe]

on a sidenote, the last of the comments on microsoft is

Microsoft has changed the world. At this point, the fact that they have such a large percentage of the market is a good thing. It has also guaranteed that English will be the language of the world for many generations to come.
Steph, Decatur, Georgia USA

could someone explain to me how? or does this person fail to grasp the fact that local versions are actually translated?

[bob_c_b]

on a sidenote, the last of the comments on microsoft is

Microsoft has changed the world. At this point, the fact that they have such a large percentage of the market is a good thing. It has also guaranteed that English will be the language of the world for many generations to come.
Steph, Decatur, Georgia USA

could someone explain to me how? or does this person fail to grasp the fact that local versions are actually translated?

That is pretty funny cosidering most every state in the U.S. has laws on the books to provide most public signs in English and Spanish. I suspect this person doesn't know the word "localization" even exist.

[newbie2]

Why partially? Just curious...
"We can use the duck test: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. The office in Reno walks like a tax evasion; it quacks like a tax evasion; it is a tax evasion."
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/221421_firstperson25.html

[Lovechild]

I agree with you partially... Bill Gates does give a lot of money to charities..

Bill Gates redistributes your money, remember that - when he gives to the poor that is the money he made charging over price for crap software. Now if you saved that money and installed Linux instead you'd have the power to give that money to the poor instead.

[newbie2]

"Who will be the last man to promote open-source programs here _ the No. 1 enemy of Windows operating system of Microsoft Korea? The answer may be the president or ex-presidents of the firm.

But such an implausible thing is now happening in this country as a former president of Microsoft Korea is leading the government initiative to boost open-source programs in place of Windows.

Ko Hyun-jin, president of the government-sponsored Korea IT Industry Promotion Agency (KIPA), is the man who is making the hard-to-believe story.

Under the stewardship of Ko, KIPA is now spearheading the development of the Korean software industry and its top priorities include the promotion of open-source programs to dilute the dominance of Windows.

Ko, who got aboard Microsoft Korea in 1998 and took the helm of the 100-percent subsidiary of the world’s largest software maker a year later, moved to KIPA halfway through 2003.

``I certainly felt conflicts in deciding the transfer. But I thought I had to move to help Korea’s software industry. Personally, I wanted to stop working for foreign companies,’’ the 52-year-old said.

Before joining Microsoft, he was employed by IBM Korea for more than 10 years through 1994 and served as vice president of Sun Microsystems Korea from 1994 to 1998.

Ko’s appointment as KIPA chief came under fire by a host of civic groups like the Korean Progressive Network (KPN), which claimed Ko is not the right person for the job due to his former position.

``As chief executive of Microsoft Korea, Ko had demonstrated his hostility toward open-source software, such as Linux. So we could not accept the appointment,’’ KPN activist Oh Byoung-il said.

In response to such a claim, Ko said with a smile, ``During my stint with Microsoft Korea, I did not attack Linux. I just tried to protect Windows.’’

Linux is an emerging operating system alternative to the thus-far dominant Windows program and its basic versions are available for no cost. The underlying source code of Linux is open to the public so that programmers can upgrade the program continually.

From Windows Guardian to Linux Evangelist

After taking the reins of KIPA in June 2003, Ko once and for all muted his critics by leading an all-out campaign to introduce Linux, the main threat for his former company Microsoft, to Korea.

``I racked my brains for three months after inauguration to find out a way to boost our country’s software industry and the answer was open-source programs,’’ Ko said.

``In order to become a genuine software powerhouse, Korea had no choice but to secure source technologies. We cannot achieve the goal under the command of dominant closed-source programs,’’ Ko said.

Asked whether his previous job and intimate relationships with many executives of Microsoft Korea drew back the decision of tilting toward open-source programs, he flatly denied the guess.

``I forgot my erstwhile job as soon as I took over this current one. You know, I am supposed to channel my energies and efforts for those who pays me now,’’ Ko beamed.

But the penetration of Linux was a tall task because, paradoxically, Korea is the hot bed of high techs including broadband connection, online gaming and top-of-the-line software.

Korea boasts of the world’s best per-capita penetration of the high-speed Internet with roughly 12 million of 15.5 million households hooked up to the always-on Internet.

The nation is also touted as the place where online game industry thrives most with its tech-savvy young generation go nuts on a raft of attractive multi-media role-playing games.

``In less developed countries, it is relatively easy to spread Linux because people are not accustomed to many applications. But in Korea, we must develop so many applications, provided by current closed-door programs, operable under Linux to draw tech-conscious folks to the open-source software,’’ Ko said.

Currently, less than 1 percent of desktop PCs are based on Linux in Korea, much less than global median 3 percent. For more promising field of servers, Linux accounts for less than 25 percent in Korea.

Encouraging Signals for Linux Camp

Ko looks to increase the rate to 5 percent for desktop PCs and 40 percent for servers by 2010 in a nation where Microsoft’s Windows has flat-out ruled the market.

The target did not seem to be over-ambitious compared to two years ago when Ko first presented the guidance because the nation is literally racing to the alternative Linux system.

Korea Post, the postal service agency, announced last month that it will soon start using Linux on its desktop computers. In the first stage, it will install the Linux-based operating systems on 4,748 PCs in its 2,800 branches across the country.

The Ministry of Planning and Budget takes baton of the Linux love affair of the government by revealing a project to kick-start 37 state informatization project with Linux for next year, which would cost about 80 billion won.

A new online information system for school, dubbed the National Education Information System (NEIS), also adopts Linux-enabled format on its 2,331 servers, marking the first mega-sized state plan with Linux here.

Private players of the country also jump onto the Linux bandwagon, with such big players as Hynix Semiconductors, the world’s runner-up memory chipmaker, and SK Telecom, the nation’s primary mobile operator, embracing Linux.

In this climate, the International Data Group World Expo (IDG) has decided to host a Linux World Conferences and Expo next June in Seoul.

The event is a global tour gathering Linux-associated entities and developers from across the world. A total of 17 fixed venues take turns to hold the annual meeting as many times in a year

``Linux market is still relatively small but we are impressed by the leadership position that Korea has taken in the pursuit of Linux,’’ IDG chief David Cord told press conference late last week.

``What is particularly impressive is the strong interest and support of the Korean government in adoption of open-source software and Linux.’’

The KPN, which once was outright opposed to the appointment of Ko to KIPA boss, now heaps praises on him.

``For now, he is doing his job properly. Actually, he silenced his opponents by not showing any connection with Microsoft Korea and relentlessly questing open-source programs,’’ KPN activist Oh said.

Ko said he wants to serve for KIPA once again after he finishes his three-year tenure next June with the sole aim of helping Korea soar to the higher echelon of global software business ladder."
09-25-2005
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/200509/kt2005092519095811890.htm