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Knome_fan
September 23rd, 2005, 01:55 PM
http://www.kubuntuforums.net/

aysiu
September 23rd, 2005, 04:44 PM
I'm not worried so much about the fragmentation of the community as I am about the waste of resources. I'd say a good many tutorials and HowTos here apply to both Kubuntu and Ubuntu. Usually, the only difference is having to type sudo kwrite instead of sudo gedit.

Freddy
September 23rd, 2005, 05:22 PM
I've just been on the Kubuntu site and their forum button now directs to their new forum www.kubuntuforums.net/.
In my opinion it's no good to separate what is more or less the same. I think our distro (both Ubuntu and Kubuntu) should still be using the same forum as many Ubuntu users can answer my qustions about most of the system whenever I have one and sometimes I can help a fellow Ubuntu guy in need. I've learned to love this community and it's one of the big reasons I left Fedora some months ago.

What do you all think about this separation of Ubuntu and Kubuntu, I would like to hear what you all think??? /// Freddan

Technoviking
September 23rd, 2005, 05:33 PM
I think fragmentation would be a bad idea, but I'm obvious biased :).

Freddy
September 23rd, 2005, 05:51 PM
I don't think any fragmentaion will happen, at least not any time soon, Ubuntu forums has a large index of threads regarding KDE issues, so if you wan't to a solution for a problem it is to the Ubuntu forums you go. Also the userbase for the Gnomebased version of this distro is so much larger and mostly they can answer you quetsions as well as KDE users. I think aysio said it perfect, just a waste of resources. At least I'm not going anywhere.

This is my home and that is as it should be. /// Freddan

RastaMahata
September 23rd, 2005, 05:59 PM
Only one question: Why?

bored2k
September 23rd, 2005, 06:16 PM
I will have a very hard time redirecting some KDE user to a forum I'm not even sure "works". I wonder what was the reason behind the creation of it. Sure, most of us here are GNOME users, but it's not like we don't help the KDE fans out there in every way we can. Just like aysiu and others said, a lot of howtos, tricks (et al) work on both environments. If they don't like the brown themeing here and feel excluded I guess they'll just have to duplicate every single Ubuntu site out there, the Wiki included.

az
September 23rd, 2005, 06:39 PM
Why? I guess someone would have to ask them!

This is similar to cairo vs GDK. Why write another rendering library instead of improving the existing one? Why Udev and not fix DevFS? Why make a supermount patch and not just fix improve automount? How many different implementations of the boot splash have their been in the past five (ten?) years?

Because you can.

Obviously, there is no easy solution. To some it is choice. To others it is fragmentation. This is the good and the bad and having choice.

Launchpad is working on better integration with the forums. Personally, I think Launchpad should make their framework to access to wiki work accross a number of forums. That is, ti any forum who wants to sign up. That way, nothing is lost in fragmentation.

The ubuntuforums are well-established, though, so I think people will always come here, first. It is like a snowball, you know.

Freddy
September 23rd, 2005, 07:03 PM
This is similar to cairo vs GDK. Why write another rendering library instead of improving the existing one? Why Udev and not fix DevFS? Why make a supermount patch and not just fix improve automount? How many different implementations of the boot splash have their been in the past five (ten?) years?
Of course you're right, there's alot of discussions about that sort of things, even real flamewars sometimes :). The thing here I think is that this can divide us as a community plus I already have a hard time keeping up with the discussions and flamewars here. I don't need another place to :) okey I'm selfish and it's time for me to visit the corner and shame my **** of :) /// Freddan

mstlyevil
September 23rd, 2005, 07:21 PM
I think Kubuntu forums and guides are a great thing. I tried Kubuntu and many of the specific issues to that release were just not covered in the Ubuntu forums. Also getting help from people who are only familliar with the gnome format can sometimes be a little difficult. It boils down to giving Kubuntu users better support, not the fragmentation of the community. I believe that issue can be resolved anyhow by posting both forums on the kubuntu and Ubuntu pages.

GeneralZod
September 23rd, 2005, 07:31 PM
I think Kubuntu forums and guides are a great thing. I tried Kubuntu and many of the specific issues to that release were just not covered in the Ubuntu forums. Also getting help from people who are only familliar with the gnome format can sometimes be a little difficult. It boils down to giving Kubuntu users better support, not the fragmentation of the community. I believe that issue can be resolved anyhow by posting both forums on the kubuntu and Ubuntu pages.

But the people here (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=68) are all Kubuntu users, and so are not going to be "only familliar with the gnome format". Why do we need yet another set of forums to cater to them?

Expertise is a rare commodity, and stretching it over two forums that deal with exactly the same thing just seems like it will dilute the level of help available. Plus, the exact same questions will doubtless be asked and answered on both sets of forums. I'm all for choice, but this new forum just seems somewhat redundant, to me.

gw90se
September 23rd, 2005, 07:38 PM
Well, I hate to see it, if in fact it is a split. If it turns out to be an alternative/addition, then that might be something else. As a new Linux/Ubuntu/Kubuntu user, I find the majority of my answers here, but if there are other options, I will look to where I need to to find them. I suspect that I will still find 95% of what I need from this forum, though. I am currently using both the Gnome and the KDE enviroments at times. I hace actually found that I prefer the Gnome, mostly, but like some of the KDE apps better.

mstlyevil
September 23rd, 2005, 07:47 PM
But the people here (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=68) are all Kubuntu users, and so are not going to be "only familliar with the gnome format". Why do we need yet another set of forums to cater to them?

Expertise is a rare commodity, and stretching it over two forums that deal with exactly the same thing just seems like it will dilute the level of help available. Plus, the exact same questions will doubtless be asked and answered on both sets of forums. I'm all for choice, but this new forum just seems somewhat redundant, to me.

Maybe you are right. The answer probally is to add a section to this thread for kubuntu how to's and a specific Kubuntu guide. I know they have one thread for kubuntu issues, but it does not contain everything a kubuntu user needs when he is having trouble.

KingBahamut
September 23rd, 2005, 07:55 PM
Its one differentiation over the other honestly. Id wanna ask Zack Brantley exactly whats going through his mind in regards to this forum. Thats probably the easiest thing to do.

matter of fact, I just do that very thing now.

lerrup
September 23rd, 2005, 11:30 PM
Its one differentiation over the other honestly. Id wanna ask Zack Brantley exactly whats going through his mind in regards to this forum. Thats probably the easiest thing to do.

matter of fact, I just do that very thing now.

Can you let us know what is going on in his mind if you find out?

drizek
September 23rd, 2005, 11:50 PM
i think that the problem here is that we have a single kubuntu section on this site and then a bunch of ubuntu ones. Instead of doing this, or creating a whole new site for kubuntu, we should just have general ubuntu sections for everything and then seperate KDE/Gnome help sections. Right now, the kubuntu section is filled with "how should i partition my drive"-type posts taht really dont belong there.

Paulus
September 23rd, 2005, 11:59 PM
do we have to re-register too?

blowwage

I love the community spirit here, i'm tired of immature forums, this one sits just right with me, we can only hope this is reproduced @ kubuntuforums.

mstlyevil
September 24th, 2005, 12:11 AM
There is a new Kubuntu guide also at this link.

Kubuntu Guide (http://kudos.berlios.de/)

I checked it out and it seems a little more complex than the Ubuntu guide.

benplaut
September 24th, 2005, 03:18 AM
bleh... i agree with pretty much everyone in the thread, fragmentation is not good

az
September 24th, 2005, 03:52 AM
bleh... i agree with pretty much everyone in the thread, fragmentation is not good

So, is kubuntu itself fragmentation of Ubuntu? Is it a dilution of developer ressources?

claydoh
September 24th, 2005, 04:00 AM
Yes, I 100% agree, I think the forums here are plenty enough, though of course, I may still have to register there anyway in case I miss out on some good Forum Action lol!

Really, though, aside from the sheer bulk of this place, Kubuntu-specific issues are not hard to post, or find..
And on the flipside, non-official forums are not necessarily a Bad Thing, Fedora, Mandriva, Suse all seem to have them.

lerrup
September 24th, 2005, 06:52 AM
So, is kubuntu itself fragmentation of Ubuntu? Is it a dilution of developer ressources?

1. No; it's not trying to do the same thing.

2 See answer to 1. If they were both working on the same things and not talking to each other then the answer would be different.

There is no point in reinventing the wheel.

poofyhairguy
September 24th, 2005, 08:10 AM
The way I see it:

For Breezy this forum plans to work better with the wiki to avoid duplication of efforts (instead of typing out simple instructions for simple things EVERY time someone asks here, we will try to get more GREAT instructions on to the wiki and ask people to give new users a nice "hello" and a link to the needed wiki page concerning their question).

If the Kubuntu forums wish to do the same, then we will help each other by working through a common base- the wiki. If they don't want to, then a duplication of efforts will occur. This is part of life in GNU land. Its the reason we have many different email programs instead of one awesome Outlook killer (among other things- package formats anyone?). If one cannot tolerate this, then they will have trouble with Linux in the future.

It seems that every good idea or project in Linuxland gets fragmented (kernel excluded). Maybe this is a sign of Ubuntu's maturity.

Knome_fan
September 24th, 2005, 09:34 AM
Some comments.

First off: Why has my original post been edited?
Now I don't remember the exact words of what I wrote, but I'm pretty sure they weren't inflammatory in any way, so what gives?

Second:
Bogus analogies don't really help.
Why Udev and not fix DevFS? Because DevFS was a whole different concept that many people considered broken in the first place and that was surplanted by something better?
What this has to do with ubuntuforums and kubuntuforums is beyond me, unless you are trying to suggest that ubuntuforums was broken from the beginning, which I don't think you want.

Third:
Pointing out that there is fragmentation in other areas (and again using bogus analogies) doesn't really say much, does it?
It doesn't even ask the question if this fragmentation at hand does make sense, or not, if the wish some people express of having a separate forum for kubuntu doesn't show that something might not be ideal in the way kubuntu is right now presented at this forum here, it doesn't ask the question if and how the forums should work together, etc.

yhotg
September 24th, 2005, 12:27 PM
i see 2 problems here, (i posted this in the kubuntuforum too) :D
1. the fragmentation of the community and the waste of resources.
2. the need for the users to duplicate the searchs and posts.

we all know that without a strong community there couldn't be a strong distro and here we r splinting it, i think. (and i am not a zealot, i am just a end user , so i need the strong community in order to leech it better lol)

the administrator or moderator in kubuntuforum said:


These forums are used for asking questions and getting help with Kubuntu. Linuxquestions.org has information for kubuntu as well, so what is the purpose of the kubuntu portion of that site... There are many sites with information about kubuntu. Aren't they all helpful.

yeah, it is right that in every linux forum there is a section for kubuntu and for ubuntu (i think generally they are the same section) but those are linux forums, not distro realated forums.

so, anyway this is not about debating the purpose of the forum but to get both of them working better, right?

my to little ideas:
a. both forums talk a nice chat and mix them in one distro forum
(k)ubuntuforum or kubuntu/ubuntuforum or ubuntu/kubuntuforum or whateverforum
with 3 big sections: a distro-realated / and 2 desktop-related
and we all look for the same things in a logic way in one big place richer and greater and glorious lol

OR

b. both forums have a nice - long chat and see the way to get working the search tool so not matter where i make the search i get the results from both forums at the same time and i don't have to do 2 searchs and post 2 threads and duplicate my efforts.

you should think that (k)ubuntu is just one distro, and the bigger part of solutions for things will be the same for both desktops.
just the command like to use gedit or kwrite will change. (lol)

following my b. idea i hope one day g4l will have a search that look in every linux forum for related threads. lol, so i could get the threads from linuxquestions without having to read 3 forums every time. (i am registered in some 8 or 11 linux forums) is like time consuming , what you say?


I forgot to say that i am a (k)ubuntu user. yes kde but my distro is (k)ubuntu

claydoh
September 24th, 2005, 01:43 PM
Are we making a bit too much out of this?

I seriously doubt that any fragmentatiuon will occur. As I mentioned above, many distros have outside, unafilliated forums and have no trouble., so why worry about it? it is a sign of Ubuntu's growth and maturity,

What I fear is people going over there (from here) and being negative. Of course this has already happened :(
Those sort of posts will do much more to cause fragmentation than a new forum ever will. There is no need to get defensive because someone else has set up a new venue. They don't seem to have any ideas of taking anything away from these forums, which of course they can't.

What they can do, however, is provide their own personality and atmosphere, perhaps a place where someone who would never post in Ubuntuforums would feel more comfortable. I am sure the sheer size of this site can be daunting, perhaps cumbersome to some. I know I felt that way when i first registered here.

Let them have a shot, see how they do, then if they do something out of line, then jump all over them :grin:
I intend to try them out for size myself. It doesn't mean I will leave ubuntuforums.

papangul
September 24th, 2005, 03:36 PM
Lets take a lesson from kubuntuforums creators and carry on our business here as if kubuntuforums does not exist. if they can ignore us , we can ignore them. Lets not waste our time on this.

az
September 24th, 2005, 06:56 PM
1. No; it's not trying to do the same thing.

2 See answer to 1. If they were both working on the same things and not talking to each other then the answer would be different.

There is no point in reinventing the wheel.


Just about every person who was a Gnome user and perfectly hapy with ubuntu shook their heads when they heard about Kubuntu for the first time. "Why?" they asked, for exactly the same reason we are asking "why Kubuntuforums?"

Canonical saw the many willing people in the community who were excited about bringing KDE to Ubuntu. They are all for that. they ran with it. Ubuntu worked perfectly fine. Kubuntu did the same thing as Ubuntu did.

Ubuntuforums work perfectly fine. Same story.

Matchless
September 24th, 2005, 07:56 PM
My two cents worth.

This was bound to happen and will most probably happen more and more in the future due to the fenominal growth and success of ubuntu/kubuntu. I think this can just be seen as part of the global growth of this wonderfull OS.

Personally I prefer Kubuntu and have found that we are heading towards a big problem/complication as ubuntu gets older. The wealth of information stored in the various guides are becoming bloated (and evenold) and it is sometimes very difficult to sort out whether a guide is outdated or not, whether it belongs to Warty, Hoary, ubuntu or kubuntu and then also if it works in a shared ubuntu/kubuntu environment or in a kubuntu only one. There should be some flag or tick box that one should tick to flag a bit of info or date itor even varify an older bit. The experts in those fields will know better, I am just commenting from a normal users side of the fence.

I have also found that most (you can correct me if wrong) of the guides and advice that are in depth and knowledgeable come from people who use Gnome mainly and not really KDE. The forum posts sometimes clearly state that anything related to, or similar to or whatever to windows is not the in thing if you are a linux user. This leads to KDE landing in the back room and only taken out when friends that may laugh are not around! Before you shoot me, this is also coupled to the fact that the ubuntu free CD is only distributed in ubuntu and not kubuntu!! This in reality says that Kubuntu is not the primary distribution even if it is free. I am not criticising this, but was just wondering how many free CD's for kubuntu would be ordered compared to unbuntu if the user had the choice?
Maybe we should rather support any other ubuntu support and not see it as a threat, but rather as more growth and support for the distribution of choice. Another voice, another group supporting the same product cannot be a bad thing.
Regards
Matchless

Mishura
September 24th, 2005, 10:52 PM
Well, lets see..

Most of the help here in these forums are on the Gnome-ish side of things. People like me can tell the difference, but not everyone can.

The Kubuntu Forum topic here is kind of stale. Not a lot of KDE specific questioning, and more hardware type stuff. Not to mention that there is a lot more "Community Chat" topics there than it should be. Topics like "Konqueror vs. Firefox" really should be in this topic, than in Kubuntu.

Looking at the Kubuntu forums, I see that there isn't a lot of posts and stuff. Of course, the reason why is, is that they're new.. but here, there are literally thousands of users that post daily, with varying levels of experience willing to help people with their problems... KDE or Gnome alike. Would I be able to draw from that pool of resources there? Probably not.

I might lurk there from time to time, but I really don't have the time to be lurking too many forums like these. Many other people will probably feel the same way, too.

a-nubi-s
September 25th, 2005, 02:05 PM
I'm thinking about registering there. I use KDE (with a dark tannish looking theme BTW, no problem with brown here) and have posted in the past that I feel a little orphaned here, like a second class citizen sometimes. Maybe that's why I haven't posted much.

Would have been nice to see at least one mod actively behind KDE with the same enthusiasm as the mods have for Gnome. That would make a difference in my opinion. Some new mods were just recruited but it doesn't look like they use KDE either. If that's true it's a mistake in my opinion. How can these forums expect KDE users to feel at home here if none of the mods regularly use KDE?

As an example, a thread in the Kubuntu section that has zero moderator input that would have plenty if it was about Gnome, KDE 3.5 beta packages for Hoary and Breezy (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=67800&page=1&pp=10), 8 pages long so far and not even one mod post? That just shows the level of "official" interest here in KDE/Kubuntu.

I'll probably sign up with Kubuntu Forums. It looks good, nicely designed and fast (just like KDE) ;-) Dividing users is a shame but if a separate Kubuntu forum has been set up it probably means some KDE users feel under/unrepresented or less/unsupported here.

We'll see how it goes. If it grows a little then it'll be a fine alternative source for KDE/Kubuntu specific information. If it grows a lot then it may end up being the source.

kassetra
September 28th, 2005, 03:43 AM
I'm thinking about registering there. I use KDE (with a dark tannish looking theme BTW, no problem with brown here) and have posted in the past that I feel a little orphaned here, like a second class citizen sometimes. Maybe that's why I haven't posted much.

Would have been nice to see at least one mod actively behind KDE with the same enthusiasm as the mods have for Gnome. That would make a difference in my opinion. Some new mods were just recruited but it doesn't look like they use KDE either. If that's true it's a mistake in my opinion. How can these forums expect KDE users to feel at home here if none of the mods regularly use KDE?

As an example, a thread in the Kubuntu section that has zero moderator input that would have plenty if it was about Gnome, KDE 3.5 beta packages for Hoary and Breezy (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=67800&page=1&pp=10), 8 pages long so far and not even one mod post? That just shows the level of "official" interest here in KDE/Kubuntu.

I'll probably sign up with Kubuntu Forums. It looks good, nicely designed and fast (just like KDE) ;-) Dividing users is a shame but if a separate Kubuntu forum has been set up it probably means some KDE users feel under/unrepresented or less/unsupported here.

We'll see how it goes. If it grows a little then it'll be a fine alternative source for KDE/Kubuntu specific information. If it grows a lot then it may end up being the source.
We've always admitted that the Kubuntu area wasn't what we wanted it to be and that it would take time to grow it, but we don't go recruiting staff based upon what version of Ubuntu they use, that would be overlooking the dedication and commitment of the person.

There are also many threads that go on for pages and pages and pages without any staff input - ones outside of the Kubuntu area.

Many of the improvements we've been wanting to make to the Kubuntu area were dependent upon the forum software upgrade. We've been working all kinds of new features and items that are essentially Kubuntu-only into the new software. Now that we've upgraded, wait until you see what we've been building for four months. ;) (teaser.)

We really commend the Kubuntu area's patience is letting us work out many of the issues surrounding how to fold them into the community correctly.

It's possible that the Kubuntu area level of comfort has more to do with how often staff visit, how the forums are arranged, and the color schemes than what version of Ubuntu forum staff use. As I said, we've been discussing how to make the Kubuntu area better for four months. To that end, we've got some big changes happening very soon.

I'll grant you that maybe it wasn't apparent that we want ALL users to be comfortable and supported here, so we're making giant changes _right now_ to change that perception.

PM me if you have any questions or doubts.

Knome_fan
September 28th, 2005, 06:37 AM
I'll grant you that maybe it wasn't apparent that we want ALL users to be comfortable and supported here, so we're making giant changes _right now_ to change that perception.


Great news!
Looking forward to see what you guys have in store for us.
:D

a-nubi-s
September 28th, 2005, 10:32 AM
Originally Posted by Knome_fan
Great news! Looking forward to see what you guys have in store for us.

Ditto.

Thanks for responding to my concerns kassetra. Not to argue the point or anything but I for one would still like to see a mod in the future with dedication and committment of course who also just happens to use KDE and would be interested in visiting the Kubuntu threads more often, getting more involved with KDE specific things.

kassetra
September 28th, 2005, 11:08 AM
Ditto.

Thanks for responding to my concerns kassetra. Not to argue the point or anything but I for one would still like to see a mod in the future with dedication and committment of course who also just happens to use KDE and would be interested in visiting the Kubuntu threads more often, getting more involved with KDE specific things.
You don't see it, so I'll just have to point it out.

KingBahamut runs Gnome, KDE, XFCE, you-name-it. And not just runs, USES. WELL. :)

bored2k has just recently installed Kubuntu, in order to be a hovering bee on the Kubuntu area.

And don't laugh. I also have installed Kubuntu to use and learn how to manipulate - just so I could ALSO hover over the Kubuntu area ... only, not like a bee, bees sting. I'm a butterfly. I hover like a butterfly.

That's THREE staff members so far, two of which are doing it JUST FOR the Kubuntu area! (And I'm a tried and true gnome user - which means it's like eating ice cream too fast for me to use KDE, but I'm doing it!)

What does that tell you about our interest in the Kubuntu area?

Knome_fan
September 28th, 2005, 11:13 AM
bored2k has just recently installed Kubuntu, in order to be a hovering bee on the Kubuntu area.

And don't laugh. I also have installed Kubuntu to use and learn how to manipulate - just so I could ALSO hover over the Kubuntu area ... only, not like a bee, bees sting. I'm a butterfly. I hover like a butterfly.

Why not float like a butterfly and sting like a bee?



What does that tell you about our interest in the Kubuntu area?
That you are certainly on the right track and deserve thanks for your dedication.

kassetra
September 28th, 2005, 11:20 AM
Why not float like a butterfly and sting like a bee?
Ok, I just re-read my post to figure out what you mean here, and it's obvious I've been working too long. I will go to bed. Soon. Ish.



That you are certainly on the right track and deserve thanks for your dedication.
The Kubuntu area *will* be better. I'm finding out about what happens when you try to load your 40Gb music collection over smb in amaroK. Some user will benefit from my bringing my new Kubuntu system to it's knees! (Ha, just learned about Lisa. Yeah, should have had that first.)

Ooooh, Knome_Fan, check your PMs while you're at it. :)

KingBahamut
September 28th, 2005, 07:09 PM
You don't see it, so I'll just have to point it out.

KingBahamut runs Gnome, KDE, XFCE, you-name-it. And not just runs, USES. WELL. :)

bored2k has just recently installed Kubuntu, in order to be a hovering bee on the Kubuntu area.

And don't laugh. I also have installed Kubuntu to use and learn how to manipulate - just so I could ALSO hover over the Kubuntu area ... only, not like a bee, bees sting. I'm a butterfly. I hover like a butterfly.

That's THREE staff members so far, two of which are doing it JUST FOR the Kubuntu area! (And I'm a tried and true gnome user - which means it's like eating ice cream too fast for me to use KDE, but I'm doing it!)

What does that tell you about our interest in the Kubuntu area?



I make a habit, largely because I try to support everyone in the forums on every level possible, of running all of the envoirments I can possibly. In my job for instance I have 3 boxes , a Database server and a Application server, so that I can emulate the envoirnment for and in which I write the fixes and code for that I do. I couldnt live without such resources

It would be the same here, within respect to my architecure at home. Ive more than once take a photo of what my war room looks like =) (for those who havent had the pleasure -- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=55871&highlight=Datacenter) I have to understand every facet of the realm in which we are supporting so that I can better service everyone else on this forum. I dont believe in keep ideas like one desktop UI is more or less functional than another.

XFCE is faster, and yes, its similar to what I grew up learning on , a very old SunOS and Solaris Machine.

KDE is big and featureful, while it may be processor heavy, it manages memory relatively well.

Gnome is also big and featureful, and while it loads down the memory, it handles processor changes well.

E17 is just Beautiful.....

Fluxbox is minimalistic and for those days when I just need a little more than a terminal window its fine. Very configurable.

OpenBox , yes too very fast , and configurable on a variety of levels.

Blackbox/Hackbox - see fluxbox

Windowmaker - My favorite Developer UI.

All of my boxes , and there are a few of them, run any or all of these UIs , and the more I become acquainted with them, the better of a person I become to be asked questions about them.

a-nubi-s
September 28th, 2005, 08:46 PM
KingBahamut I'm glad you responded because I'm afraid kassetra doesn't really get the point at all. The only thing that post did was motivate me to register straight away for Kubuntu Forums! Intentions may be good, but the motivation is all wrong. There's a HUGE, GARGANTUAN difference between someone forcing themself to use Kubuntu/KDE and someone who already uses it day to day, has been using it, already knows plenty more about it than we probably do, and uses it because they truly ENJOY it.

That's the kind of person/mod this forum needs for balance. Someone other devoted KDE users can relate to. Someone who is and already has been genuinely curious about KDE, Kubuntu and the KDE apps who will find new and useful things/tricks/workarounds all of us can benefit from. Someone who has more of an inside track on Kubuntu and KDE developments than we do. Basically like the mods here already do for Gnome and Ubuntu. *

If that's you KingBahamut then great, you're knowledgable, experienced and enthusiastic and on here a lot from what I've seen. The last thing I'd want to see is mods forcing themselves to use Kubuntu just for our sake so they can "hover" threads and learn to "manipulate" KDE! That's just stupid. Great, lukewarm mods/martyrs on the path of suffering and all for us! Oh that makes me feel much better! :roll: Sorry for the sarcasm but that would be like a passionate Gnome user trying to feel comfortable on a KDEcentric forum knowing that mods were forcing themselves to use Gnome just to humour your questions and enthusiasm! Erm, don't think so.

As a minimum I know mods over on Kubuntu Forums are using KDE because they really WANT to, because they ENJOY it. I doubt I'll hear things from them like "oh look! we're bending over backwards for you by using KDE". :rolleyes: That was definately not the best message to send out.

KingBahamut, you had a much more sensible reply. I'll play both fields for a while and see how things develop here and over on Kubuntu Forums.



* I would add to the list someone who truly prefers KDE straight off the mark but that would be pushing, wouldn't it? That's ultimately why I signed up for Kubuntu Forums.

KingBahamut
September 28th, 2005, 09:01 PM
Ultimately Anubis thats the idea behind all of this. No person should force themselves to do anything, especially where this is concerned. But I dont feel that force is being used here. Honestly alot of people dont have resources like I do to just sit down and install all the viable forms of Ubuntu on a bunch of systems. I have that ability and as a result I have the oppourtunity to be universally ranged in the ability I have to support people. Am I suggesting that everyone who is a moderator or admin do that as well? No in the slightest. Theres no way to expect of anyone else.

However I feel that no one is forcing themselves onto anything. While I see the validity of the need for Kubuntuforums to exist, it does still seem to me that a bit of redundancy is going to occur in this aspect. While this is undesireable to some, other still might not find it that way.

As to your lean on things Anubis, thats your choice. The Volatrian Humanist in me says you should do what makes you feel the most comfortable and the easiest informed. If your not informed properly, then why are we here? The point thats being made I think is centered around our ability to inform. If that isnt correct, if thats questionable. Then thats what we need to fix.

If this aspect has given you grief or trouble, I can only say sorry. Its not in my nature to let an uninformed user go that way for long if I can help it. But I can only do so much. If I have been lacking , then I shall try to improve that fact.

a-nubi-s
September 28th, 2005, 09:21 PM
Another sensible reply kingBahamut, good deal. This is what conditioned my response to an extent, with emphasis on the "just for" part.

Originally Posted by kassetra
That's THREE staff members so far, two of which are doing it JUST FOR the Kubuntu area!
But I hear what you're saying KingBahamut and look forward to seeing how your presence and input makes a difference in the Kubuntu community here.

az
September 28th, 2005, 09:22 PM
Can we agree that competition is good?

kassetra
September 28th, 2005, 09:29 PM
KingBahamut I'm glad you responded because I'm afraid kassetra doesn't really get the point at all. The only thing that post did was motivate me to register straight away for Kubuntu Forums!

Someone who has more of an inside track on Kubuntu and KDE developments than we do. Basically like the mods here already do for Gnome and Ubuntu. *

Sorry for the sarcasm but that would be like a passionate Gnome user trying to feel comfortable on a KDEcentric forum knowing that mods were forcing themselves to use Gnome just to humour your questions and enthusiasm! Erm, don't think so.

I doubt I'll hear things from them like "oh look! we're bending over backwards for you by using KDE". :rolleyes: That was definately not the best message to send out.

KingBahamut, you had a much more sensible reply. I'll play both fields for a while and see how things develop here and over on Kubuntu Forums.

* I would add to the list someone who truly prefers KDE straight off the mark but that would be pushing, wouldn't it? That's ultimately why I signed up for Kubuntu Forums.
Well, as this is the third post I've attempted to respond to you, you're really aren't understanding me, or my motivations, or my intentions. You're 100% wrong. I'm giving my time and energy into trying KDE because I want to be able to help people use it; I'm curious about it. What GUI I *PREFER* makes little difference to whether or not I can help people or even inspire them.

Maybe next time, see the message for what it really is.

KingBahamut
September 28th, 2005, 09:44 PM
Another sensible reply kingBahamut, good deal. This is what conditioned my response to an extent, with emphasis on the "just for" part.
But I hear what you're saying KingBahamut and look forward to seeing how your presence and input makes a difference in the Kubuntu community here.


Anubis, Im not sensible in anyway shape form or fashion.

One too many Guinness and I turn into BegBie ( for those who dont know, that was the very crazy sort in the pub from Trainspotting ).

Now that be said , I think what the real issue here is whether or not you feel supported here or not. It will take certainly more than my presence to do it. With changes that Im aware that are taking place , I see things improving. Perhaps Im just a visionary. However again, I respect the opinion you have. While we all have our own opinions about what Kubuntuforums will do for the community, if you really feel that it is your best source for information, then by all means take it.

mlomker
September 28th, 2005, 09:53 PM
Would have been nice to see at least one mod actively behind KDE with the same enthusiasm as the mods have for Gnome. That would make a difference in my opinion.

Well, being a mod is just a title. I'm not sure how it directly matters, but I'll preface that by saying that I've only read the last couple pages of this thread.



As an example, a thread in the Kubuntu section that has zero moderator input that would have plenty if it was about Gnome,


What input was needed in that thread? I personally run amd64, so I didn't follow it. I'm a lot more concerned about providing solid support for the current, stable version of the operating system. I can understand the novelty of a KDE beta and Breezy, but it's a beta--something intended for developers and technically savvy people to experiment with and help find bugs.

I'm too busy helping with more mundane problems to get involved with that and most people that are installing betas shouldn't be doing so, in my opinion.


probably means some KDE users feel under/unrepresented or less/unsupported here.

I can't speculate about the motivations of the Kubuntu staff. They are an add-on project to Ubuntu. They share the repositories but they are different entities. It makes sense for them to have their own forum for issues that are specific to their product.

Most of the posts in the forums don't have anything to do with the desktop manager being used. The biggest problems are with video drivers, hardware configuration, boot scripts, and all the other things that Gnome and KDE run on top of. I'll take a shot at any mainstream KDE question that I run across, but it's still only one or two per day compared to 60 other threads involving the other issues.

Not that it should matter, but I don't like gnome. I run it in a VMWare session just so I can answer the occassional question or test a solution in a 32-bit environment.

claydoh
September 28th, 2005, 11:10 PM
While I don't care for Gnome, I usually install it as I think that if I am going to use some nifty Gnome app, I might as well install the whole thing instead of just the dependencies :).
I always have installed both if I have the choice to. I don't think anyone is being forced or even pressured into installing KDE, that of cpourse would be silly :p. With Ubuntu being a single-cd distro, I think that unless someone really wants to check KDE out, there is little use/need/whatever to install it. Same goes for Kubuntu users and Gnome. And to be honest, it hasn't been until recently that Kubuntu has been (relatively speaking) issue-free. I can see more people in general trying it out in the near future, which includes moderators.

I never really noticed that mods hadn't made a "presence" known in KDE specific sections, and frankly am not bothered by that at all. I try to help if I can, but I am not here quite often enough to be usefull :) Someone else usually has beat me to it :).

drogoh
September 29th, 2005, 12:06 AM
That's ultimately why I signed up for Kubuntu Forums.
And post like these are exactly why Linux plays back seat in the desktop market while Microsoft retains its iron grip. Save this schism crap for Slashdot. The last thing Ubuntu needs is its user base squabbling over something as meaningless as a freaking desktop environment. Seriously, this Hatfields and McCoys crap needs to end. So kassetra is a staunch Gnome user, big whoop. I was a staunch Fluxbox user and used Gnome because I wanted to. Why does she use Kubuntu? Because she wants to. She wants to be able to help the Kubuntu users that are having KDE specific problems without looking like she lost her clue. Give her some credit.

XDevHald
September 29th, 2005, 12:12 AM
And post like these are exactly why Linux plays back seat in the desktop market while Microsoft retains its iron grip. Save this schism crap for Slashdot. The last thing Ubuntu needs is its user base squabbling over something as meaningless as a freaking desktop environment. Seriously, this Hatfields and McCoys crap needs to end. So kassetra is a staunch Gnome user, big whoop. I was a staunch Fluxbox user and used Gnome because I wanted to. Why does she use Kubuntu? Because she wants to. She wants to be able to help the Kubuntu users that are having KDE specific problems without looking like she lost her clue. Give her some credit.

I think this post pretty much gives the facts, what do you think?

matthew
September 29th, 2005, 12:29 AM
And post like these are exactly why Linux plays back seat in the desktop market while Microsoft retains its iron grip. Save this schism crap for Slashdot. The last thing Ubuntu needs is its user base squabbling over something as meaningless as a freaking desktop environment. Seriously, this Hatfields and McCoys crap needs to end. So kassetra is a staunch Gnome user, big whoop. I was a staunch Fluxbox user and used Gnome because I wanted to. Why does she use Kubuntu? Because she wants to. She wants to be able to help the Kubuntu users that are having KDE specific problems without looking like she lost her clue. Give her some credit.
Hear, Hear!!

az
September 29th, 2005, 01:34 AM
KingBahamut I'm glad you responded because I'm afraid kassetra doesn't really get the point at all. The only thing that post did was motivate me to register straight away for Kubuntu Forums! Intentions may be good, but the motivation is all wrong. There's a HUGE, GARGANTUAN difference between someone forcing themself to use Kubuntu/KDE and someone who already uses it day to day, has been using it, already knows plenty more about it than we probably do, and uses it because they truly ENJOY it.


Er, I have compiled drivers for stuff I do not even have, just to be able to cut and paste the steps to help other users.

How is this different?

Are we are talking about tech support or evangelism?

papangul
September 29th, 2005, 01:58 AM
The Kubuntu threads should be taken care of by KDE experts/developers. Whats the big deal with a mod posting or not posting in a particular thread? This is a childish issue.
If the Kubuntu threads are not getting enough attention the blame goes to KDE community. Either there are not many experienced Kubuntu users or they are just not willing to help people on this forum. Why blame the ubuntuforums community in general or the mods in particular ? Should I create another ubuntu forum because the mods or other people here do not use the graphics card I use? And if I do create another forum, would I include every other topics that are being already discussed here?

bored2k
September 29th, 2005, 02:12 AM
Preface
We chose the name Ubuntu for this distribution because we think it captures perfectly the spirit of sharing and cooperation that is at the heart of the open source movement. (...) We improve on the work of others, which we have been given freely, and then share our improvements on the same basis.

Respect the Forum Staff. We provide a service in our free time to keep the forum running efficiently. We will occasionally ask for input, but in some cases we will not, please respect our decisions.
---

(...) I'm afraid kassetra doesn't really get the point at all. The only thing that post did was motivate me to register straight away for Kubuntu Forums! Intentions may be good, but the motivation is all wrong.
It's always nice to let the people that help you know that you appreciate their help.
---

There's a HUGE, GARGANTUAN difference between someone forcing themself to use Kubuntu/KDE and someone who already uses it day to day, has been using it, already knows plenty more about it than we probably do, and uses it because they truly ENJOY it.


Be considerate.
Be collaborative.Like Kassetra has already stated, we are conscious that the Kubuntu section of the forums is behind the others, but please understand, that's why we are working our derrières off to try The fact that we are not "native" KDE users does not mean we can't help fellow users in need. We might not now all the tricks a seasoned veteran would know, but when a "fresh off the boat" has any kinds of problems, usually those who have a "little more" experience using Linux would find him a solution quite fast. Of course, we would regularly avoid harder to handle problems that we don't have an aswer for, so I still don't see what your point is. Why would a user in need care if we live or not by the Kode as long as we give him the answer to his needs?
----

As a minimum I know mods over on Kubuntu Forums are using KDE because they really WANT to, because they ENJOY it.And just who is forcing us into trying to help? First of all I have used KDE several times and the fact that I prefer Gnome over it should not matter. This is not the first time I've installed a Desktop Environment after seeing a community need for someone who can help them solve their problems. If we are all to encapsulate ourselves into helping those who like everything the way we do, I'm sorry but I am not going to follow that method.

I hope the Kubuntu Forums serves you at least 1/3 as good as these forums have helped me in the Linux growth. We voiced our opinions over yet another forums but we are in no way telling anyone not to join should they desire.

jdong
September 29th, 2005, 02:27 AM
Er, I have compiled drivers for stuff I do not even have, just to be able to cut and paste the steps to help other users.
How is this different?
Are we are talking about tech support or evangelism?

I agree with you 100%, Azz. I'd say with 80% of the Backported packages, I've never used the software a day in my life, and had to investigate it to understand it well enough to make reliable backports and ensure their functionality... Might I add that there've been months where I've built and tested Backports using other distros (SuSE, CentOS, Fedora) as my host OS, and I was still able to stay in touch with Backports users.


Tech support is certainly different from what a-nubi-s is describing (though I wouldn't go to call it evangelism -- these types of peers are very good for the community)

aysiu
September 29th, 2005, 02:33 AM
I think the bottom line is whether or not people support you or not. You shouldn't be scrutinizing people's motivations for using KDE (as if using KDE in order to help people is somehow less noble than using KDE because you love it).

If I'm a struggling newb, I'd rather have a bunch of Gnome users who are helpful actually help me out than have no KDE users who may or may not be helpful not actually help me out.

Occasionally (now that I'm using Kubuntu) I'll have KDE-related issues (I just posted one in the Breezy section of the forums), but most of the time, newbies' questions can be answered by the users of any desktop or window manager.

Go where you feel most supported and able to give back support. If that's these forums, then fine. If that's the Kubuntu forums, that's also fine.

claydoh
September 29th, 2005, 03:14 AM
Er, I have compiled drivers for stuff I do not even have, just to be able to cut and paste the steps to help other users.

How is this different?

Are we are talking about tech support or evangelism?

I also have done that sort of thing as well, created a few rpm packages for programs I would never use :)

It definitely wasn't evangelism, thats for sure. But it was more than just simple tech support. It is the "Giving Back to The Community" ideal, Someone out there gave me a hand, so I do what I can to do the same. Many definitely seem to be doing this here :)
and are doing in other venues as well.

Please, lets not get too worked up over this (imo) non-issue.

XDevHald
September 29th, 2005, 03:16 AM
Please, lets not get too worked up over this (imo) non-issue.

Agreed, this is getting off topic, let's move it back on. :)

thieummm
October 1st, 2005, 05:17 PM
Sorry I haven't read the whole thread but IMO:

- There should be one single forum: Kubuntu is Ubuntu technolgy, only the Desktop Environment (DE) changes.

- We should separate KDE issues and Gnome DE issues.

- For other things like hardware issues or other non-DE related issues (everything that can be done with a console), it is not necessary to make two sections...

People should be informed, that if they have a problem with a KDE (Kubuntu) App, they should post it in the KDE section, and if they have a problem with a Gnome DE App, they should post it in the Gnome section.
These sections could be labeled as Kubuntu Section or Ubuntu Section respectively, this way the user will less rely on the Ku/U buntu name, but rather on the DE he uses.


As for the question : How to do that... We have two choices:

- For each section that related to DEs, have sub-forums for KDE/Gnome

or

- Have a tab at the top of the page, where the user can select a KDE or Gnome (Kubuntu/Ubuntu) "view" (Ku/U buntu theme, the forums related to the selected DE would automatically be there, not showing the other forums related to other DE)...)


It is just a matter of "view" ... I prefer the second choice.


I guess the problem is just that KDE guys should not have changed the name, they should have just kept Ubuntu...!!

OK now I'll stop ... Because this whole "issue" really NOT important !!

mlomker
October 1st, 2005, 07:06 PM
I guess the problem is just that KDE guys should not have changed the name, they should have just kept Ubuntu...!!


That was Canonical's choice. They designed Ubuntu to be just gnome. Kubuntu is a 'community project' just like Edubuntu is.

claydoh
October 1st, 2005, 07:37 PM
OK now I'll stop ... Because this whole "issue" really NOT important !!

Agreed :)

arunsub
October 13th, 2005, 04:33 PM
Why do we have Kubuntu still in Ubuntu forum when there's a separate Kubunt forum here (http://www.kubuntuforums.net/)?:confused:

adwait
October 13th, 2005, 04:38 PM
That's a forum which has been recently launched, and it is not the official forum. This is the official Canonical forum....

kassetra
October 13th, 2005, 04:39 PM
Why do we have Kubuntu still in Ubuntu forum when there's a separate Kubunt forum here (http://www.kubuntuforums.net/)?:confused:

We are the official Ubuntu forums; we cover all official Ubuntu versions, including Kubuntu.

We will most likely never change the fact that we cover the entire Ubuntu family.

arunsub
October 13th, 2005, 04:40 PM
Gotcha. Thank you both.

arunsub
October 13th, 2005, 04:41 PM
BTW, if it's not official, why is it in Kubuntu site?

adwait
October 13th, 2005, 04:49 PM
Because kubuntu in itself is a sort of offshoot of Ubuntu. So it has a separate site......

arunsub
October 13th, 2005, 04:51 PM
Because kubuntu in itself is a sort of offshoot of Ubuntu. So it has a separate site......
I didn't ask why there's a separate Kubuntu site. I asked why ,if kubuntuforums.org is not an official forum, is mentioned in kubuntu.org?

adwait
October 13th, 2005, 05:02 PM
Theres a whole thread about the separte forums things, here as well as there.......read up :)

kassetra
October 13th, 2005, 05:20 PM
I didn't ask why there's a separate Kubuntu site. I asked why ,if kubuntuforums.org is not an official forum, is mentioned in kubuntu.org?

It might help to depict it like this: Parent Ubuntu has two children, Gnome Ubuntu and Kubuntu (KDE).

We are the official Parent Ubuntu forums. Does this help clarify?

Watter
October 13th, 2005, 06:52 PM
Perhaps I'm a simpleton, but I find having the two separate forums quite confusing. If I have a problem, where I should I ask about it? If I'm interested in helping others overceom the same issues I did, do I need to be checking both places for people with questions? Do the two different forums serve different purposes? Looking at their descriptions, that doesn't seem to be the case.

As new Kubuntu user, I find the mess a little frustrating.

matthew
October 13th, 2005, 07:02 PM
My primary advice (simpler): post here. There are a lot more users and the community is very friendly. You are likely to get assistance in a kind and useful manner here.

If you don't like that advice (more work for you but probably better overall): spend some time reading 30 or 40 posts in each of the different sites. Listen to the overlying tone of each community as well as the usefulness of advice given. Then make an informed decision for yourself.

<not a rant nor an attack--friendly tone intended> Oh, and really--this isn't an issue worth getting frustrated over. It is regrettable, maybe, but not worth a lot of emotional time or energy. No one connected with these official forums had anything to do with the creation of the other Kubuntu forums. No one here caused the confusion.

kassetra
October 13th, 2005, 07:06 PM
Perhaps I'm a simpleton, but I find having the two separate forums quite confusing. If I have a problem, where I shoudl I ask about it? If I'm interested in helping others overceomt he same issues I did, do I need to be checking both places for people with questions? Do the two different forums serve different purposes? Looking at their descriptions, that doesn't seem to be the case.

As new Kubuntu user, I find the mess a little frustrating.

Having the two forums simply provides more options for a user. They wanted KDE/Kubuntu - specific forums provided to their users, and so they did.

I can understand your frustration. I think that ultimately, it will come down to the users' preference. If you prefer that forum to this one, you will most likely post there more often than here and vice versa. There will also be people that will cross-post.

I think in the end, the information will end up in both places, simply because the nature of computer issues.

aysiu
October 13th, 2005, 07:23 PM
Theres a whole thread about the separte forums things, here as well as there.......read up :) I've merged the two threads.

I know earlier on I said this would fragment the community and waste resources, but I've rethought it, and I think it's fine. If you need help, you can post in one or both forums, and you'll get it. If you give help, both forums have a "new posts" button that lets you look at what the new problems are that are out there or the new discussions that are happening.

My guess is that rather than people actually leaving the Ubuntu forums to join the Kubuntu forums, the new Kubuntu forums will simply attract some new folk.

xbaez
October 15th, 2005, 04:46 PM
I disagree with this forum
I usually download Ubuntu, install it, and then add the Kubuntu CD
then I install KDE so I have both Ubuntu and Kubuntu
they use the same repositories
Ubuntuforums.org admin should add more forums instead of separating everything

I mean, there should be on BREZZY forum
Inside it, there should be a Desktop Forum
and insite it, there should be Gnome (Ubuntu), KDE (Kubuntu) and Xfce (xubuntu).

that is the ONLY difference! Ubuntu is the best distro but this community is being separated for no reason at all

One example, how to configure Point2Play
Give me one difference between KDE and GNOME, there is none, except for the KDE menu (believe me editing KDE menu is a lot easier than editing those /usr/share/applications/program.desktop files)

Muhammad
October 23rd, 2005, 11:41 PM
err... What happened to the thread starter (Knome_fan)?

zenwhen
October 24th, 2005, 01:28 AM
He asked for his account to be deleted a while back.

littlepr
November 18th, 2005, 01:27 AM
Anybody know what happened to the Kubuntu forums?

kairu0
November 18th, 2005, 01:41 AM
Do you mean to say that you can't access the kubuntuforums.net site?

I'm viewing it right now.

az
November 18th, 2005, 02:05 AM
I typed kubuntuforums.org myself once or twice...
It's kubuntuforums.net....

uberlinux
November 18th, 2005, 02:30 AM
I suppose I'll have to give it a looksee, but I don't understand the fragmentation. Ubuntuforums has a Kubuntu branch.

angrykeyboarder
November 18th, 2005, 01:26 PM
I suppose I'll have to give it a looksee, but I don't understand the fragmentation. Ubuntuforums has a Kubuntu branch.

Somebody felt the need for a seperate site for Kubuntu forums, so they slapped one up.

I could do another one and confuse people even more. ;-)

Maybe kubuntu-bbs.org? :-)

aysiu
November 18th, 2005, 04:35 PM
There was a whole hoopla at first when they came out. I was one of the first to cry "fragmentation!" but it really hasn't happened at all. Almost everyone has stayed here.

I also visit the Kubuntu Forums to help out, but it hasn't slowed me down from helping out here, too.

The truth is that their community isn't strong enough now. Not enough chatting about random stuff (Community Chat) and not enough support either (here I can get my questions answered within hours if not minutes--there... probably not ever).

If they become successful, good for them, but it won't be members of this community "defecting" to the Kubuntu Forums en masse. It'll be the Kubuntu Forums themselves attracting new KDE users.

If they don't become successful, who cares? These forums here are great and actually offer me better support for KDE anyway.

Kyral
November 18th, 2005, 04:47 PM
This fragmentation thing has me very worried....All the *buntu's are the same thing with different default configurations. I mean you install with the server install and with one command you can turn it into Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, or Edubuntu...

Very troubling

aysiu
November 18th, 2005, 04:56 PM
This fragmentation thing has me very worried.... It hasn't happened, has it?

quietglow
November 18th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Very troubling

I agree. It seems that one of Ubuntu's greatest strength's is its community. Diversity is good for that community (Edubuntu, Kubuntu etc) but when a group splinters off, I think the community does suffer.

<mental note> No more snide KDE comments</mental note>

claydoh
November 18th, 2005, 05:06 PM
No it hasn't :)
Since the kubuntu forums opened, there have been changes here that make KDE users a bit less feeling "lost" in the crowd so to speak :)

az
November 18th, 2005, 05:47 PM
This fragmentation thing has me very worried....All the *buntu's are the same thing with different default configurations. I mean you install with the server install and with one command you can turn it into Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, or Edubuntu...

Very troubling

If everyone used the official wiki as a knowledgebase, there would be less fragmentation. Helpful information we has out here could be shared with the rest of the community.

That would make room for there to be several official forums.

What do forums do? They attract people. If some people gravitate elsewhere, there is nothing do to but go with the flow. The smart thing to do is use a pooled ressource for the shared knowledge.

Brunellus
November 18th, 2005, 05:49 PM
This fragmentation thing has me very worried....All the *buntu's are the same thing with different default configurations. I mean you install with the server install and with one command you can turn it into Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, or Edubuntu...

Very troubling
I think this is less to do about community fragmentation and more to do with the type of user who is naturally attracted to Ubuntu and its various flavours.

Because Ubuntu is a single-CD distribution which ships with largely fixed, if sane, defaults, new users flock to it. Each Ubuntu-related flavour is essentially an install with different defaults and package selection, but newbies treat them like totally different entities.


The community would be smaller, but less fragmented, if everyone had to go through an Ubuntu 'server' install, and add packages as they wanted them. But in Ubuntu, initial package selection happens at the stage of downloading the iso, not at the install.

Brunellus
November 18th, 2005, 05:50 PM
If everyone used the official wiki as a knowledgebase, there would be less fragmentation. Helpful information we has out here could be shared with the rest of the community.

That would make room for there to be several official forums.

What do forums do? They attract people. If some people gravitate elsewhere, there is nothing do to but go with the flow. The smart thing to do is use a pooled ressource for the shared knowledge.
I have come around to this way of thinking after much complaining and in spite of the sometimes offputting rhetoric from certain community members. I'll be contributing to the wiki more aggressively in coming days.