Why Ubuntu?

[Xomphos]

Hey,

Now before I get flamed, let me explain. I really like Ubuntu and want to use it. However, I really wonder why you would want to when you can do a lot of what Linux can (open-source programs on Windows). Sure, Windows is annoying at times, but really, whats the point of Ubuntu when you can do the tasks you want and more (iTunes-iPod[touch] sync, gaming) when you can just stay in Windows and not have to worry about, say, rebooting to get into it to just sync your iPod Touch (or iPhone) (I know you can sync iPods, but I haven't heard much about iPod Touch support-plus, I have videos and purchased content). Installing or dual-booting Ubuntu just seems worthless to me.
Yeah, yeah, I know it totally seems like I am bashing Ubuntu. Well, I am. But, I have dabbled in Linux off and on over the years including Ubuntu and I love it. I just keep going back to Windows because of what I mentioned above. I am currently deciding what my next OS will be: Windows Vista or Ubuntu.
Please, enlighten me about my rants of Ubuntu to help change my mind and remember, this is not meant to get flamed, but to get good, quality responses.
Thanks.

[Flyingjester]

go back to windows. you obviously don't like linux. I'm not wasting my time convincing you of anything.

[eolson]

In my opinion, only you can decide. You know what you want/need in an OS and make your decision based on that. Sorry if it seems simplistic, but that's the way you do it. Figure your needs and pick the system that best fits them.

[bwhite82]

If Windows works for you, roll with it dude. 8-)

[emarkd]

Ubuntu is different than Windows and that makes a lot of people uncomfortable. They come from an environment that they're familiar with into something very different. For many of us that stick it out and learn how/why things are they way they are, we decide that the Linux way is better than the Microsoft way. That works for us. For others, they go back to the Microsoft way. That works for them. You've just got to find what works for you.

[oedha]

you decide which one is better for you.....
for me : i better use my money for someting more important

regards;
~E~

[jordanmthomas]

Sounds to me like you have no reason to run Linux. There's more to computing than iPods. I don't have an iPod and I can do everything I need to do using Linux (not Ubuntu, but whatever). The question I'd be asking is why Windows when Linux does everything I need?

[Kingsley]

Linux has multiple workspaces. Vista doesn't. :)

[bodhi.zazen]

It start with open source on windows, then, if you like, your entire OS can be open source.

Ubuntu has advantages and disadvantages, as does windows. Pick the best tool for the task at hand.

Advantages of Ubuntu include security and the Ubuntu community. I also find it is much easier to fix problems in Ubuntu then Windows. Ubuntu does not "phone home" and inactivate your hardware. I do not have to run a antivirus, anti-spyware, or firewall software.

[cozmicharlie]

I doubt you will get flamed - its a question everyone should ask before they switch. I will give you my top 3 reasons that I switched from Windows.

1. This is more philosophical - At least in part I switched because I don't think it is good for one company (or 2) to have a monopoly on computer operating systems. I want there to be viable alternatives.
2. All the programs are free (true there are a lot of open source programs in Windows but they are not all free).
3. Networking in Ubuntu is much easier than Windows and more secure.

Those are my top 3 reasons. One other reason though that I am not sure many will admit to - I like learning new things and I find Ubuntu a challenge and fun (though frustrating at times for sure).

[gruss]

I kind of understand what your talking about, I just have never been a huge windows fan and have always looked for alternatives. But sure things are, in this day and age, easier in Windows XP, Vista on the other hand,blech I'll take ubuntu anyday. Sure the driver issues will get cleared up since it is Windows but what a horrific piece of bloatware....anyway if you can afford the hardware to run Vista respectably I'm sure all your issues will be soved with it shortly, prolly after the the first SP release. Personally I like ubuntu cause it runs respectably on older equipment, and can utilize new. After my recent exposure to Ubuntu I'm not sure its ready for the "common user" quite yet, but I do see some promise, much more so than in my past dabblings with linux. Actually I think it would be great in a business environment ...ahhh how easy would my life be... oh well I'm done dreaming now

[LaRoza]

Use whatever you want.

I used Ubuntu and other Linux distros longer than any othe OS, and I see no reason to use Windows.

[hhhhhx]

you can use whatever you want, its your chose. ubuntu works for some, and for some it does not. The reason i use ubuntu is because of expandability, like using GNOME with all KDE apps. But that's just me.

[juxtaposed]

Linux works much better than Windows does for me. That's why Linux. It makes my computer mine, not Microsoft's. But seriously, if you're looking for us to beg you to make the same choice we did... You're not gonna get that.

[aysiu]

However, I really wonder why you would want to when you can do a lot of what Linux can (open-source programs on Windows). Sure, Windows is annoying at times, but really, whats the point of Ubuntu when you can do the tasks you want and more (iTunes-iPod[touch] sync, gaming) when you can just stay in Windows and not have to worry about, say, rebooting to get into it to just sync your iPod Touch (or iPhone) (I know you can sync iPods, but I haven't heard much about iPod Touch support-plus, I have videos and purchased content). Well, I think of it the other way. If Ubuntu does everything I want and I like Ubuntu, why would I install and/or pay for Windows just to use the same open source programs on a closed source operating system?

Can I manage software installation through a package manager in Windows? Can I easily install and switch themes in Windows? Can I get free upgrades in Windows? Can I freely and legally in every country distribute copies of Windows to my friends if I like Windows? Does Windows detect my hardware without presenting me with yellow question marks I need drivers for? Does Windows come as a live CD that can give me a free preview of it that I can install straight off the same disk if I like it?

The answer is no to all of those questions.

Ubuntu does everything that I need to do, and Windows does not.

Incidentally, I have a Cowon iAudio 7, and not an iPod. So no worries about syncing.

[Linuxratty]

Having come from the Windows world,quite frankly,I was tired of it...I wanted something different...There are a number of things Microsoft does I disagree with,such as thir draconian big brotherish approach...
Ive used Linux going into my third year now and I like it way better...Especially the way programs are installed via synaptic...Just can't beat having everything in one place, just waiting for you to pick and choose at your leisure..:KS:KS:KS:KS:KS
I agree with everyone else here,use what you want.

[angryfirelord]

The problems you are pointing out (games, Apple software) are not even remotely close to being a problem with Linux. The issue here is that the companies are refusing to create a Linux port of their software.

The solution? Write to them. Better yet, get a bunch of your friends and each of their friends and write/e-mail to the company. Tell them that you enjoy using their software, but you wish to use it on your OS of choice. If they tell you too bad, then simply tell them you won't buy or use their products again. Whether or not you decide to do the last part is up to you, but money has the largest voice in this corporate world, so if a company isn't making enough revenue, then they're going to have to listen to their customer base at one point or another.

[days_of_ruin]

Well VISTA sucks and thats a fact so if you like windows I would stick
with xp.

You sound like someone who mainly uses your pc for media/entertainment so you should probably just stick to windows if you don't anything else.

[jordanmthomas]

Well VISTA sucks and thats a fact so if you like windows I would stick
with xp.

Very convincing argument.

[scizzo]

There is no one in the world that can actually force you to make a choice its your choice about what you like. If you find it easier to use windows then well that is your choice.

Some reasons to why I use Linux and Ubuntu:

* Development cycle is easy to follow and its fun to see how everything is getting better and better.

* Easier support for doing tasks and frankly I love doing stuff directly from the terminal all the time and not "click" on everything.

* Opensource

* Learning - I feel that I learn more about both coding and the computer itself when I use Linux since I get the whole its easier to error search in Linux feeling.

(* If I wanted to play loads of games and so on. Then I would first check with wine and then if that did not work I would check Crossoffice and transgaming.)

Reason for not using vista (personal opinion):

* Hardware - I don't want to get something that would cost me so much money and then realize I have to pay twice as much for new hardware that actually is supported. At this point I guess that the cost actually comes into mind also.

* Security - I don't trust the release at the moment. There is still to much that is not answered when it comes to the security and I don't feel comfortable with it.

* Usage - Don't like using windows in general. Its ok....but after using Linux for so many years then well you get to love the way linux works for some reason.

Everything is about how you are looking at it. No matter what you can still dual boot a system or even try it in vmware. Nothing is stoping you.

[hellmet]

I had exactly the same question a few weeks back as the OP was, but didn't post it for the fear of being flamed. I've been using ubuntu on and off too. Currently its off. I find that Windows does what I need at this point of time. Its just which software gives you the most at any particular time. I need webcam, voice support. I need to play games. Skype has webcam support but not for 64-bit. Can't downgrade ubuntu to 32-bit just for skype. For me, windows has crashed a lot fewer times than nautilus on ubuntu. It could be me.. I'll come back for Hardy. Been using/ checking out ubuntu since breezy.

[Sporkman]

Hey,

Now before I get flamed, let me explain. I really like Ubuntu and want to use it. However, I really wonder why you would want to when you can do a lot of what Linux can (open-source programs on Windows). Sure, Windows is annoying at times, but really, whats the point of Ubuntu when you can do the tasks you want and more (iTunes-iPod[touch] sync, gaming) when you can just stay in Windows and not have to worry about, say, rebooting to get into it to just sync your iPod Touch (or iPhone) (I know you can sync iPods, but I haven't heard much about iPod Touch support-plus, I have videos and purchased content). Installing or dual-booting Ubuntu just seems worthless to me.
Yeah, yeah, I know it totally seems like I am bashing Ubuntu. Well, I am. But, I have dabbled in Linux off and on over the years including Ubuntu and I love it. I just keep going back to Windows because of what I mentioned above. I am currently deciding what my next OS will be: Windows Vista or Ubuntu.
Please, enlighten me about my rants of Ubuntu to help change my mind and remember, this is not meant to get flamed, but to get good, quality responses.
Thanks.

Well the windows kernel isn't that bad, it's just that the default windows installation is bloated. So if you want the best of both, install a minimal windows kernel-based system, then run a lightweight UI like xfce or fluxbox - look in the windows repositories for these.

Give it a spin, let us know how it goes.

[debianchick]

I don't see why all the glory over Ubuntu.They use testing and
unstable packages from Debian repos and that is why people
wind up fixing things more than enjoying the OS.It has Sudo that
is a security risk. Some of us think Ubuntu is bad PR for Debian.
While your trying think of your next OS checkout Debian Etch by
downloading one of our Live CD's (http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/) we have four to choose from,
GNOME KDE Xfce and traditional.

[Sporkman]

Sudo that is a security risk.

Why's that?

[aysiu]

Why's that?
It isn't a security risk any more than a root account is.

[scizzo]

I don't see why all the glory over Ubuntu.They use testing and
unstable packages from Debian repos and that is why people
wind up fixing things more than enjoying the OS.It has Sudo that
is a security risk. Some of us think Ubuntu is bad PR for Debian.
While your trying think of your next OS checkout Debian Etch by
downloading one of our Live CD's (http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/) we have four to choose from,
GNOME KDE Xfce and traditional.

This argument is IMO very very wrong......have you seen people ranting about debian here?

I have been using debian before. The reason for me chosing ubuntu is because I wanted to try it at first.....and still if I would use Debian I think I would still use the testing or unstable packages from there.

IMO this argument is not really helping either Debian or Ubuntu in anyway at all.

[mivo]

I really wonder why you would want to when you can do a lot of what Linux can (open-source programs on Windows).

In my case, it is partly for practical purposes (there's no Evolution or rsync for Windows), partly for "philosophical" reasons (I disagree with Microsoft's visions of "Trusted Computing" and DRM in general). Everything I do on my computer I can do with Linux, why pay and face outside control for doing the same on Windows? The sore point is gaming, and I believe that is a major point why people stick to Windows. It certainly delayed my switch by several years. My solution was to just move to console gaming, which may not be a perfect solution, but a working one.

So, in order to really move to Linux you need to embrace both the usability (the tools, the concept, the architecture) and the "philosophy" (which also translates to practical advantages) of the open source, free software "movement". In my case, I just work better and more happily with Linux.

[ODF]

I don't care about my Ipod touch ... but damn, I miss my games =)

In overall i prefer the ubuntu way to do things. It's personnal.

[DMK62]

<<<< smelling embers turning into flames...just kidding

i think debianchick was referring to the grace period after a password is entered for sudo , ie you don't have to reenter the pass for sudo related tasks in that period.

Back to the OP...if you have invested a lot of money into ipods etc and want them to work without hassle then go with Windows. If you don't mind finding and paying for linux compatible replacements then go with linux. And above and beyond all, go with what YOU want.

my 2 cents

Dale

[ODF]

Back to the OP...if you have invested a lot of money into ipods etc and want them to work without hassle then go with Windows. If you don't mind finding and paying for linux compatible replacements then go with linux. And above and beyond all, go with what YOU want.

my 2 cents

Dale

Well Ipod touch aren't a lot of money and this is not really related in my opinion since expensive or not you just want your things to work anyway.

I think its just a matter of the time you have in your hands =)

Busy people will love Ubuntu/linux only if they have people to spend time on their computer to fix it ... just like windows users do.

My dad actually do that hehe and its the only reason he is running linux.

[bodhi.zazen]

This argument is IMO very very wrong......have you seen people ranting about debian here?

<clip>

IMO this argument is not really helping either Debian or Ubuntu in anyway at all.

+1

There really is no reason for animosity Debian and Ubuntu users, the projects can and do benefit from working together. It is a two way street, Ubuntu has contributed to Debian.

Promoting hostility between the two serves no real purpose.

Debian is a fine distribution. So is Ubuntu.


It has Sudo that
is a security risk.

Umm ... Debian also uses sudo ... And sudo is not a security risk, it allows finer grain of control to root access (rather then the all or none of su).


think of your next OS checkout Debian Etch by
downloading one of our Live CD's (http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/) we have four to choose from,
GNOME KDE Xfce and traditional.

Thanks for the link. Do you have anything more recent ? All the iso I found on your download link were from July 2007. I was disappointed to find the lenny / weekly / monthly builds all empty.

The Ubuntu Desktop (live) CD's are all more up to date then those Debian Live CD's.

[jcwmoore]

Hey,
I am currently deciding what my next OS will be: Windows Vista or Ubuntu.

well the real question is... Is the pain of change greater than the cost of upgrading? "Should I buy a new computer or spend lot of time moving my system to Ubuntu (linux)"


Honestly I'd say change now, becuase as time goes on the cost of upgrading only increases.... and given the reasons you said, unless you paid for an ipod touch or and iphone, or you have spend lots of money of PC games (like 100's of dollars) then you would be better to change now and wait for the 'slow' wine gaming or ipod compability, rather than fork over a few grand for an "up to date" Vista system...

but in the end the choice is yours... that is what makes ubuntu (and linux) so great! you get to decide what is best for you

[jcwmoore]

go back to windows. you obviously don't like linux. I'm not wasting my time convincing you of anything.


people like you are the reason others will not even try ubuntu, or even linux in general! I realize that you are free to your opinion, but what the hell, someone comes here and asks for advice and you say "go away!!!!" how does that reflect on the community?

[ryanVickers]

The piece of mind that it is stable, secure, and not to mention, since I love to change the look, for me its very important to be able to theme everything :p It's also free, without having to download it illegally. I get what your saying about all the apps on windows, but for me, I need an operating system that works - is always the same speed; fast, is always going to work the same way; properly, and always makes sense and runs properly; doesn't get viruses, hacked, doesn't fall victim to illogical problems, doesn't need reboots, etc. etc.

As for my next OS, If Mac OS X could run on a normal computer, it would definitely be worth the money to buy it, but I will not spend a penny on micro$oft software! :mad:
The reason I don't just get a Mac is because the hardware is still over priced in my opinion. Yeah, Yeah, "Finest computer on the market at any price" -Wall Street Journal, but really, they have some of the best software in th world and although their hardware measures up to it, unfortunately so does the price. Maybe some day I'll get one, but for now I just want the OS and iLife '08 ;)

Really, they've always been about the hardware right from the start! And that was their one fatal mistake; when Bill Gates had his one correct vision of how software was going to grow, and bought DOS and made a deal wit IBM, Steve Jobs and the other guy were literally building the computers and making sales personally instead of piggy backing on some other company until they got a good start...

[amlucent23]

In my case, it is partly for practical purposes (there's no Evolution or rsync for Windows).

They have ported Evolution to windows (http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file/fid,64608-order,1-page,1/description.html). It is still in beta but its very usable.

[ryanVickers]

SSSHHH!!! :rolleyes:

[wahr]

Linux is infinitely configurable using default features or installable themes, and if that's not good enough for you the license allows you to add that feature to the OS if you have the talent and/or inclination.

The tools provided by and available for OSS, while some may be outright user unfriendly, are superior to those provided by microsoft and apple. The most powerful apps I have for apple are merely OSS command line tools with a GUI wrapper.

For a power user, to fully unlock linux is to fully unlock the potential of your machine. You have to be willing to adapt to a new environment, though.

It's a question of philosophy really. You either choose the OS on its merits, and seek out and support compatible apps, or you choose the apps, and buy the OS around it, whatever trash it may be.

Another application of this philsophy would be housing.
I saw on a documentary where this guy bought a derelict 7,000 sq foot church.
Because he had the patience to renovate that space to its maximum potential, he now has his dream house, tailored to his needs, the envy of the county, and the total cost was 30% less than a mediocre single family home.
Some are willing to put in this effort, others shop for a pre-packaged living space, and are willing to compromise on their expectations for it.

As for the syncing ipods thing, I get the feeling a well placed shell command to refresh the daemon governing it would probably get it done for you. It's no different really than when you first learn to use the ipod on windows.

[aysiu]

people like you are the reason others will not even try ubuntu, or even linux in general! I realize that you are free to your opinion, but what the hell, someone comes here and asks for advice and you say "go away!!!!" how does that reflect on the community? The OP didn't ask for advice. Please re-read the original post.

[jargs]

I have a creative zen and it works in ubuntu but not windows vista!

[Flyingjester]

people like you are the reason others will not even try ubuntu, or even linux in general! I realize that you are free to your opinion, but what the hell, someone comes here and asks for advice and you say "go away!!!!" how does that reflect on the community?

as it was stated, he was not asking for advice, the OP freely admitted that he was bashing ubuntu, and stated that he found installing or dual booting with ubuntu worthless. Looking through the op's previous posts dating back to 2006 he has been down this road before. I'm not gonna waste my time convincing someone who hasn't made up their mind in two years...

[raymac46]

Simple really:
(1) I have lots of good old hardware around that used to run Windows 95, 98, Me. Microsoft won't support those versions any more. Why spend a lot of money on XP when they can be made useful, safe and secure with Ubuntu or some other Linux distro?
(2) I also have a brand new Ubuntu powered desktop. I figure I saved $400 without Vista and Office 2007 - not to mention other software I'd need to buy. No activation spyware, DRM bloatware, third party crapware - so it flies.

[GamingMazter]

I just always wondered about it...tried the LIVE CD and once I saw it for myself I realized I could never go back to Windows Vista Home Premium!

[LoneWolfJack]

If you are asking yourself if you should use windows or ubuntu/linux, then ubuntu/linux already has changed your life - by giving you a choice. ten, probably only 5 years ago there was no such choice.

another five years or so and the linux community will be large enough to force software/game companies to give linux as much attention as windows. and by then, it will be linux that will be able to run your ancient windows software while the current windows itself will refuse to do so.

[AndyCooll]

I initially installed Linux because I'd been using pirated copies of Windows for years and my conscience got the better of me. I bought a legal copy of XP. However I four computers and I simply couldn't afford all the costs. I'd already started looking for free software for Windows, and in my search I'd come across a whole free OS, Linux.

As time has gone on I've become hooked with the whole free/libre open-source philosophy.

Nowadays I use Ubuntu because I'm more comfortable with it than Windows. Even though I work on an IT Help Desk supporting the Windows OS I'm always happiest when I can come home to Ubuntu. I treasure the freedom and choice Linux provides.

Recently I had to install a copy of XP so I chose to do so using VirtualBox. Thankfully it was only for a few hours so I didn't have to register it, but it had me worrying as to whether it would work or not. I've become so accustomed to being able to install and uninstall Ubuntu on what I want whenever I want, this was definitely confirmation of one reason why I choose Ubuntu.

:cool:

[R@inm@n]

I started running Ubuntu because I got really tired of having to re-boot ******* every time it hiccups or freezes or installs a patch for it's many security holes.
What really got me looking at Linux was the incredible attitude that Microsoft has towards the owner/user of the software that you buy from them.

They act as if you don't own it, or as if you are a "pirate". When I recently upgraded some hardware in one of my Lan computers, XP had a fit about verifying whether I was the licensed owner of the OS. I had to phone Microsoft and plead my case about renewing the software which I had legally purchased from them...:confused:

After hassling me around they finally let me use my own software again .....:mad:

That was it for me, I installed Ubuntu on my personal computer, and I will soon install it on all the rest of my computers here too.

I just got tired of their whole attitude, the way they [Microsoft] treat you is like .... disgusting.



R.

[bigbrovar]

i have been in linux now for about 6 months now.. it was frustrating at first.. but right now i cant use anything else.. even though am having some issues on my system like brightness control which thanks to sony vaio is always in its highest level.. i still prefer ubuntu over windows.. and the reason is this.. windows is the way MS wants ur computer to be-- on the other hand linux is the way u want ur computer to be...its like MS give u a sculptured imaged.. which u are not allowed to alter.. in linux u are given the tools and taught how to mould ur own sculpture that would look just the way u want it.. thanks to linux my computer looks just the way i want it to look... also the strong backing of millions of users around the world hosting repos,writing patches,building new programs and helping u when u run into trouble is just something u cant get on windows.. also its free are air.. i can go on and on

[Jay Jay]

Me using Ubuntu signifies the end result of a long term desire to be free of MS and their business practices of stifling competition, curtailing real innovation and selling the worst product with the best marketing...

As someone who has been a computer user for nearly 25 years I became a Windows user not by choice, but because most of the other alternatives dwindled away. The true industry innovators and pioneers have waned or been sidelined from MS' anti-competitive dominance.

I used (and loved) the Amiga till Commodore made a mess of things and left everyone stranded. I saw Atari Corp. collapse because of incompetence, I supported OS/2 to the point of even building a machine myself to avoid the "Windows Tax" only to get letdown by IBM's lack of enthusiasm towards the OS and I ended up having to use Win 9x after all.

Ubuntu (and Linux as a whole) embodies how I've always perceived computing should be (and used to be) where power is handed to the user and he/she controls their computer, not the corporations or people with an agenda to impose restrictions. What's really sad is that MS has warped the perceptions of the public to believe that sluggish operations, crashing, freezing etc are all normal occurrences. According to them, If your hardware runs too slowly, It's not down to inefficient coding but because your rig is "out of date" and you need to buy a new machine...

DRM, TCPA, WGA have nothing to do with empowering the end user and everything to do with empowering MS (and their allies). It's amazing what the Linux community has achieved, especially when you consider the extent of MS' multi-national resources and how consistently sloppy their (expensive) software continues to be.

When given the choice, I'll pick innovation over imitation every time and that is why I use Ubuntu.

[debianchick]

Why's that?


It isn't a security risk any more than a root account is.



<<<< smelling embers turning into flames...just kidding

i think debianchick was referring to the grace period after a password is entered for sudo , ie you don't have to reenter the pass for sudo related tasks in that period.

Dale


Nope, lets see if this is more clear for you new users

On a Debian system you have a regular user lets call him mshuttleworth and the root user.The
regular user has a password say "ubuntu". It's a simple password, so that he can log in and do the
usal things like send email, surf the internet and chat.The password is easy to hack, but that doesn't matter because if someone hacks it they can't do much than read mshuttleworth's emails
and surf the internet or the worse if the person is a spammer.

On the other hand, there's the ROOT user.Root has a DIFFERENT password than mshuttleworth.
His password is something like "xhde982~_+alkdrfh". It's hard to remember and takes a long time
to type in and is a lot harder to crack.

A system that cripples the root account asks you to choose - either "mshuttleworth" or xhde982~+alkdrfh". Because sudo and mshuttleworth uses the same password his system is as easy to hack as a web based service such as Yahoo or AOL.

Sudo is useful we in Debian use it as well we just know how to set it up and use it properly Ubuntu does not.

[aysiu]

Nope, lets see if this is more clear for you new users

On a Debian system you have a regular user lets call him mshuttleworth and the root user.The
regular user has a password say "ubuntu". It's a simple password, so that he can log in and do the
usal things like send email, surf the internet and chat.The password is easy to hack, but that doesn't matter because if someone hacks it they can't do much than read mshuttleworth's emails
and surf the internet or the worse if the person is a spammer.

On the other hand, there's the ROOT user.Root has a DIFFERENT password than mshuttleworth.
His password is something like "xhde982~_+alkdrfh". It's hard to remember and takes a long time
to type in and is a lot harder to crack.

A system that cripples the root account asks you to choose - either "mshuttleworth" or xhde982~+alkdrfh". Because sudo and mshuttleworth uses the same password his system is as easy to hack as a web based service such as Yahoo or AOL.

Sudo is useful we in Debian use it as well we just know how to set it up and use it properly Ubuntu does not.
That's a choice you choose to make, not the choice Ubuntu forces you to make. If you want weak passwords for your user, then that's your fault.

[Flyingjester]

Nope, lets see if this is more clear for you new users

On a Debian system you have a regular user lets call him mshuttleworth and the root user.The
regular user has a password say "ubuntu". It's a simple password, so that he can log in and do the
usal things like send email, surf the internet and chat.The password is easy to hack, but that doesn't matter because if someone hacks it they can't do much than read mshuttleworth's emails
and surf the internet or the worse if the person is a spammer.

On the other hand, there's the ROOT user.Root has a DIFFERENT password than mshuttleworth.
His password is something like "xhde982~_+alkdrfh". It's hard to remember and takes a long time
to type in and is a lot harder to crack.

A system that cripples the root account asks you to choose - either "mshuttleworth" or xhde982~+alkdrfh". Because sudo and mshuttleworth uses the same password his system is as easy to hack as a web based service such as Yahoo or AOL.

Sudo is useful we in Debian use it as well we just know how to set it up and use it properly Ubuntu does not.

that's ridiculous... your analogy assumes too much about the passwords of users.

[bodhi.zazen]

Nope, lets see if this is more clear for you new users

debianchick: I am happy to know how much you enjoy Debian. Debian is a fine OS and I respect both Debian and your choice to use it.

I am going to ask you to stop spreading FUD on the Ubuntu Forums. The example you cite is an example of a weak password and unrelated to su/sudo/ or the root account.

Also, again, there really is no reason for animosity between Debian and Ubuntu users.

[angryfirelord]

Nope, lets see if this is more clear for you new users

On a Debian system you have a regular user lets call him mshuttleworth and the root user.The
regular user has a password say "ubuntu". It's a simple password, so that he can log in and do the
usal things like send email, surf the internet and chat.The password is easy to hack, but that doesn't matter because if someone hacks it they can't do much than read mshuttleworth's emails
and surf the internet or the worse if the person is a spammer.

On the other hand, there's the ROOT user.Root has a DIFFERENT password than mshuttleworth.
His password is something like "xhde982~_+alkdrfh". It's hard to remember and takes a long time
to type in and is a lot harder to crack.

A system that cripples the root account asks you to choose - either "mshuttleworth" or xhde982~+alkdrfh". Because sudo and mshuttleworth uses the same password his system is as easy to hack as a web based service such as Yahoo or AOL.

Sudo is useful we in Debian use it as well we just know how to set it up and use it properly Ubuntu does not.
That's assuming the user comes up with a weak password. Now, let me show you a different situation.

Let's say we're running Ubuntu and we still have "mshuttleworth" as the user. However, this guy did his research and chose a more complicated password that he could remember.

The hacker's script that will infiltrate the system only looks for a root account. But wait, Ubuntu doesn't activate a root account! (actually it does, it just assigns the root account some giant string of numbers and letters) Therefore, the script is faced with this:

User: root
Password: ???

...and it fails. Also, contrary to popular belief, the root password is encrypted the same way as the user password. So as you can see, using sudo can be more secure than having a user/root setup.

[ryanVickers]

Nope, lets see if this is more clear for you new users

On a Debian system you have a regular user lets call him mshuttleworth and the root user.The
regular user has a password say "ubuntu". It's a simple password, so that he can log in and do the
usal things like send email, surf the internet and chat.The password is easy to hack, but that doesn't matter because if someone hacks it they can't do much than read mshuttleworth's emails
and surf the internet or the worse if the person is a spammer.

On the other hand, there's the ROOT user.Root has a DIFFERENT password than mshuttleworth.
His password is something like "xhde982~_+alkdrfh". It's hard to remember and takes a long time
to type in and is a lot harder to crack.

A system that cripples the root account asks you to choose - either "mshuttleworth" or xhde982~+alkdrfh". Because sudo and mshuttleworth uses the same password his system is as easy to hack as a web based service such as Yahoo or AOL.

Sudo is useful we in Debian use it as well we just know how to set it up and use it properly Ubuntu does not.

what if the password is over 10 characters and contains an assortment of letters, numbers, and punctuation? I can type it quite quickly, remember it easily, and it is certainly hard to crack, as is all the other passwords, as said above ;)

[aysiu]

Security-conscious User
On Debian, creates a strong user password and a strong root password. Logs in to the user account with a strong password, wants to install something using Synaptic and enters the strong password for root.

On Ubuntu, creates a strong user password. Logs in to the user account with a strong password, wants to install something using Synaptic and enters the strong password for user again.

debianchick
On Debian, creates an easily-crackable user password and a strong root password. Logs in to the user account with a weak password, wants to install something using Synaptic and enters the strong password for root.

On Ubuntu, creates an easily-crackable user password. Logs in to the user account with a weak password, wants to install something using Synaptic and enters the weak password for the user again.

User who doesn't care about security
On Debian, creates an easily-crackable user and root password... uses the same for both. Logs in to the user account with a weak password, wants to install something using Synaptic and enters the weak password for root.

On Ubuntu, creates an easily-crackable user password. Logs in to the user account with a weak password, wants to install something using Synaptic and enters the same weak password.

Conclusion
It's up to the user to pick a strong password, regardless of whether the distro uses sudo or root to escalate security. Users don't get annoyed by entering passwords for logging in once. They generally get annoyed by entering passwords for Synaptic and other system changes, and if they create a strong password, it'll be annoying either way (root or sudo user). The apparent "weakness" debianchick sees in Ubuntu has more to do with her own security practices than the distro's.

[bodhi.zazen]

But wait, Ubuntu doesn't activate a root account! (actually it does, it just assigns the root account some giant string of numbers and letters)

Actually, for the record, the root account is locked in a default Ubuntu install (there is no long/random root password). Sudo is patched to allow this.


By default, the root account password is locked in Ubuntu. This means that you cannot login as root directly or use the su command to become the root user, however, since the root account physically exists it is still possible to run programs with root-level privileges.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo

[mivo]

what if the password is over 10 characters and contains an assortment of letters, numbers, and punctuation?

I believe only the first eight characters matter if DES passwords are used. Is Ubuntu using this format or MD5 passwords?

[macogw]

I don't see why all the glory over Ubuntu.They use testing and
unstable packages from Debian repos and that is why people
wind up fixing things more than enjoying the OS.It has Sudo that
is a security risk. Some of us think Ubuntu is bad PR for Debian.
While your trying think of your next OS checkout Debian Etch by
downloading one of our Live CD's (http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/) we have four to choose from,
GNOME KDE Xfce and traditional.
Been there, tried that.

Let's compare. Here's how the 2 run on my laptop:
Ubuntu: everything works out of the box (all open-source drivers, so Debian should work the same, once I install the ip3945 firmware package, right?)
Debian: entire system crashes after less than 5 minutes

Yep...I spend so much time fixing things on my perfectly-working Ubuntu install than I do on my non-functional Debian one.

By the way, I use a 14-character password with letters, numbers, and symbols that has no words in it, so it cannot be dictionary-attacked. Way I figure, it'd take at least 3 months to brute-force that.


I believe only the first eight characters matter if DES passwords are used. Is Ubuntu using this format or MD5 passwords?
MD5, I believe.

[NightwishFan]

I actually own my computer running linux.

[lespaul_rentals]

I don't see why all the glory over Ubuntu.They use testing and
unstable packages from Debian repos and that is why people
wind up fixing things more than enjoying the OS.It has Sudo that
is a security risk. Some of us think Ubuntu is bad PR for Debian.
While your trying think of your next OS checkout Debian Etch by
downloading one of our Live CD's we have four to choose from,
GNOME KDE Xfce and traditional.

Puh-leese. I tried Debian the other day, thinking it was going to be something to go bananas over, like every Debian elitist does. No idea what you guys love so much about it. I'm glad you're happy and all, don't get me wrong, but Ubuntu has turned Debian into a great desktop distro. And Ubuntu is bad PR for Debian? Debian is bad PR for Debian.

Are you really a girl? If so, that be cool, girls running Linux are always smart as heck. Wish more of those lived around my area!

[macogw]

Are you really a girl? If so, that be cool, girls running Linux are always smart as heck. Wish more of those lived around my area!
Elkbuntu and I are lady-folk.

[ryanVickers]

Puh-leese. I tried Debian the other day, thinking it was going to be something to go bananas over, like every Debian elitist does. No idea what you guys love so much about it. I'm glad you're happy and all, don't get me wrong, but Ubuntu has turned Debian into a great desktop distro. And Ubuntu is bad PR for Debian? Debian is bad PR for Debian.

Ubuntu is excellent, and very secure, like any Linux distro, but Debian, Ubuntu, and anything else that uses "sudo" is usually more secure than the rest because of the way it works. I cannot comment on Debian because I have not tried it, but I would bet that it's pretty good since Ubuntu is based on it. Personally, I think Ubuntu is very nice and extremely user friendly compared to something like Slackware or Gentoo (from what I've heard ;)). I imagine Redhat and openSuSE would be good too because they can use YaST and RPM's, but my point is I think Ubuntu is awesome, and unless you have tried them both, you have no place complaining about any 2 distros, and if you do have something to say, it would be nice to have some reason on why you think one is so much better/worse. This goes for anything really; I am always putting down windows, but that's because I have used windows for over 10 years, and Ubuntu for over 2 now, and I can safely say that Ubuntu is 1000 times better. I have reasons too, but I won't list them here (if you want a list, go check out my 100+ page thread about windows ;))

[corney91]

Are you really a girl? If so, that be cool, girls running Linux are always smart as heck. Wish more of those lived around my area!
http://www.xkcd.com/322/:lolflag:

[ryanVickers]

ohoh, did you see that one with the programmers and the butterflies, and "cat", and "emacs", etc etc :lolflag:

[corney91]

ohoh, did you see that one with the programmers and the butterflies, and "cat", and "emacs", etc etc :lolflag:
:lolflag:Brilliant. I'd recommend anyone to sign up tot he xkcd RSS - it's AMAZING:p

But this has gone too far off topic now... :D

[lespaul_rentals]

http://www.xkcd.com/322/:lolflag:

LMAO! You know, when I wrote that post about "Linux girls" I thought of that exact same freaking Xkcd! We think similarly. Haha!


Ubuntu is excellent, and very secure, like any Linux distro, but Debian, Ubuntu, and anything else that uses "sudo" is usually more secure than the rest because of the way it works. I cannot comment on Debian because I have not tried it, but I would bet that it's pretty good since Ubuntu is based on it. Personally, I think Ubuntu is very nice and extremely user friendly compared to something like Slackware or Gentoo (from what I've heard ;)). I imagine Redhat and openSuSE would be good too because they can use YaST and RPM's, but my point is I think Ubuntu is awesome, and unless you have tried them both, you have no place complaining about any 2 distros, and if you do have something to say, it would be nice to have some reason on why you think one is so much better/worse. This goes for anything really; I am always putting down windows, but that's because I have used windows for over 10 years, and Ubuntu for over 2 now, and I can safely say that Ubuntu is 1000 times better. I have reasons too, but I won't list them here (if you want a list, go check out my 100+ page thread about windows ;))

I'm going to say something that Debian elitists will probably tear me to shreds for, but...to be honest, when I ran the KDE version of Debian, I immediately thought of Fedora 7 KDE. No joke, they look and feel exactly the same. The obvious plus to Debian is APT, though. I don't know, if I were to use one or the other as a server I would probably go Fedora. It just felt more stable.

And, let me tell you mate, I had heard that Slackware was this crazy difficult distro from hell, but I tried it out. It's actually a very good distro, not difficult at all. Yes, you do have to compile your own packages, but it gives you all the compilers and libraries you need for 90% of source code out there. I could see it getting difficult if you were trying to find dependencies for a bunch of weird applications, but actually very surprising. Gentoo, on the other hand...let's just say I spent 8 hours installing it, only to have a kernel panic the first time I booted. I failed. :(

[debianchick]

That's a choice you choose to make, not the choice Ubuntu forces you to make. If you want weak passwords for your user, then that's your fault.

Sorry fan boy, Ubuntu forces it on their users. Conical sacrifices security for the all mighty dollar. looks like
Shuttleworth is starting to do things the Microsoft way,
even though he said he would NEVER adapt to their way
of doing things.

[corney91]

Sorry fan boy, Ubuntu forces it on their users.
What??? If you're still talking about weak passwords - Obviously, the user chooses it.


Conical sacrifices security for the all mighty dollar. looks like
Shuttleworth is starting to do things the Microsoft way,
even though he said he would NEVER adapt to their way
of doing things.
Doing things the Microsoft way? Last I heard Canonical weren't charging for the Ubuntu and have stuck by their philosophy...

[jordanmthomas]

Sorry fan boy, Ubuntu forces it on their users. Conical sacrifices security for the all mighty dollar. looks like
Shuttleworth is starting to do things the Microsoft way,
even though he said he would NEVER adapt to their way
of doing things.

Troll Score: 2/10
Nice try, please play again. You may receive a 3/10 since I am responding.

Ubuntu doesn't force weak passwords OR sudo on its users. Don't like sudo? Uninstall it: no big deal.

[plasmacoffee]

well im new and in my case i installed ubuntu cause it seemed to be the easiest and I hope that in time I will learn to use more advanced linux distros.

[Vorian]

Conical sacrifices security for the all mighty dollar.

It's actually spelled `Canonical'

[angryfirelord]

[edited]

[steveneddy]

As long as we're in the Cafe.

loser

:roll:

Some people just don't get it. Oh well. To each his own.

[lespaul_rentals]

Sorry fan boy, Ubuntu forces it on their users. Conical sacrifices security for the all mighty dollar. looks like
Shuttleworth is starting to do things the Microsoft way,
even though he said he would NEVER adapt to their way
of doing things.

Hey, debiantroll, go back to the lair from which you came. It's obvious you joined just to get a rise out of us.

[mivo]

Sorry fan boy, Ubuntu forces it on their users. Conical sacrifices security for the all mighty dollar.

Yes, we all paid a lot of cash for Ubuntu. ;) Canonical even ships free CDs to everyone who asks, even multiple sets.

It is well-known that some Debian fans feel they have an ax to grind with Ubuntu because of Canonical's success with a "product" that is based on Debian. Debian is great, but the Debian devs have never tried to appeal to the average user and they have instead always engaged in political debates and philosophical arguments about issues that are of no concern or interest to people who just want a working OS. The Debian web site has always been a confusing mess, you can't easily, or at all, find current Live CDs, the forums are not as friendly to complete Linux newcomers, and so on.

If you want your preferred distro to be more appealing to non-experts and the average user, then start working on these issues -- the time would be better spent than trolling the Ubuntu board. You are doing Debian a disfavour by acting the way you do, and Debian doesn't deserve such a public embarrassment. Now if it is your goal to damage Debian's reputation and get a cheap kick out of upsetting people, then go ahead, you are doing great at both. When (and not if) you get blocked from the board, you can tell everyone how intolerant Canonical is of "criticism". That's the idea, isn't it?