The lesson is: Linux users stop suggesting Linux in response to every Windows problem

[SomeGuyDude]

I think that's pretty much it. The Yahoo! thread, the "I hate Linux users" thread, it all comes down to the fact that it seems like the public face of Linux users is people who think that the solution to every problem is to say "try Linux, you won't have that problem".

Can't get Outlook to store contacts? Try Linux.

Have a virus? Install Linux.

Want to change the appearance of your Windows taskbar? Give Linux a go.

Slow bootup? Linux's is faster.

And so on. I think we, as a community, need to make the oath not to suggest Linux unless it's actually warranted. If the person is having such a deep and inherent problem with Windows that won't really get solved and a transition to Linux would truly help. Not just for software gripes or little things.

Am I wrong?

[~LoKe]

Err..what? This is a Linux forum, aside from the other OS section. If someone comes here asking for support with a Windows problem, we have every right to plug Linux.

[SomeGuyDude]

Err..what? This is a Linux forum, aside from the other OS section. If someone comes here asking for support with a Windows problem, we have every right to plug Linux.

Did I say "Ubuntuforums users"? No, I said Linux users. You look all over the place and that's why Linux users have a bad rep. Someone has a problem in Windows and if someone happens to be a Linux user their first response is "try Linux instead".

I'm talking Linux as a whole, not UF in particular. I'd be pretty idiotic to suggest that people on here not suggest Ubuntu.

[KiwiNZ]

I agree to a point. However there is nothing wrong with promoting Linux as long as it is done with care and with truth.

[~LoKe]

Did I say "Ubuntuforums users"? No, I said Linux users. You look all over the place and that's why Linux users have a bad rep. Someone has a problem in Windows and if someone happens to be a Linux user their first response is "try Linux instead".

I'm talking Linux as a whole, not UF in particular. I'd be pretty idiotic to suggest that people on here not suggest Ubuntu.

Well, when you make a post here saying "we" and "community", it's only natural to assume you're talking about this place.

But yes, you're right. Linux is not an acceptable answer to a Windows question.

[LaRoza]

Go to Dell and tell them about your defective Lenovo computer...

[ugm6hr]

@OP: I agree (assuming that this kind of behaviour does happen - I don't go to many non-Linux forums).

Why Linux users feel it necessary to hang out in Windows support type forums, I have no idea.

I would much rather hang out here and help people who want my help than try and act as Linux missionary anywhere else.

This policy just seems like common sense. So much so, ubuntuforums even has it included in their Code of Conduct:


Replies to questions that ask for help running legitimate software (albeit closed source or proprietary) that do not answer the question, but instead instruct the user that they should not be using that software on the grounds that it is not free serve only to frustrate and confuse the user...

Having said that, I have suggested Linux to people asking for free computers on freecycle because their current computer doesn't run XP, and they want an up-to-date OS... Not sure if that counts!

[Lord Illidan]

I agree with the OP.

If I ask a question about Windows, I expect to be given an answer which involves using Windows. Same goes for Linux.

Suggesting that switching to Linux can solve all of your IT woes is nothing short of zealotry.

[SomeGuyDude]

Obviously Linux can be a viable solution to some issues, since sometimes there are things that Windows simply can't do or always has a problem with. If someone's pissed that they can't run Aero on Vista and needs to upgrade their hardware, or lost their CD key and they need to reformat but won't be able to put their OS back on, things like that.

We all think Linux is a good solution to all of the woes we had with Windows or we wouldn't be using it (to a point), but I really have noticed, even on completely non-computer forums, that people pipe up about Linux at almost every possible opportunity.

[lespaul_rentals]

There has been a large number of spambots lately that post the same messages around forums rudely promoting Linux. Yahoo! Answers has been hit. I believe it could be an attempt to make Linux look bad.

[Namtabmai]

I'll make you a deal, I'll stop suggesting Linux as a solution to peoples Windows problems the moment Windows user stop suggesting Windows as a solution to my problems with Linux (not even problems, not being able play the latest games in Linux, having to check hardware support before I buy etc.).

[SonicSteve]

I believe I've only suggested switching to linux for two people. He continually corrupted his IP stack (likely visiting sites he ought not to be) or who knows. Point is he had spyware from installing things that he didnt' need. He was a basic computer user in his late 60's. He didn't play 3d games. He surfed, sent email, printed, etc.
I suggested Linux to him because he was tired of having his TCP/IP go bad. It happened twice in 6 weeks. It happens to windows for some reason, so he took me up on the offer to try Linux. I also make them the deal that if after a using it for a weeks I will re-install windows for free if they can't cope with the change. So far so good.

The second person had a laptop that was filled with virus, spyware etc. I knew that it would happen again if I simply installed Windows again. I made her the same deal and so far she likes it.

Lastly, I don't shy away from discussing Linux with anyone, but I try to do it graciously. When I suggest it as an option for someone I make sure they understand the pros and cons of what they are considering. Some people have legit reasons that make it near impossible to switch.

[ugm6hr]

I suggested Linux to him because he was tired of having his TCP/IP go bad. It happened twice in 6 weeks. It happens to windows for some reason, so he took me up on the offer to try Linux. I also make them the deal that if after a using it for a weeks I will re-install windows for free if they can't cope with the change. So far so good.

This is a very different situation to that mentioned in the OP. You recommended it to someone you knew personally, and offered direct support (and installed it for him presumably). I would thoroughly recommend this approach.

In fact, I have done the same for my mum (who is now happily on Ubuntu for about 2 months). Her wireless card intermittently dropped connections, and sometimes wouldn't load the drivers at startup in XP. No such problem with Ubuntu, and she loves the default games (Sudoku especially).

[rosegarden78]

" ... try Linux, you won't have that problem" ... Am I wrong?

No, sir. But if you run this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=385981) article as I described in this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=677959) article then perhaps Lindows or Ubuntu for Windows/Mac converts is plausable. As long as sites like ABC OS-sniff and block Linux users (like WorldWinner) then it's clear Linux is being suppressed. While Ubuntu is truly superior in my opinion it may never replace Windows and Mac and I don't think it must. But when I buy a Wacom tablet that says Universal it should acknowlege Linux. But it only says it works for Mac & Windows, even though my HP printer ran out of the box with Ubuntu and hp-tools. I think people need to recognize Linux as a major player.

[Sporkman]

I agree with the OP, however I do suffer from the urge to obliquely mention that I run an alternative OS that does not tend to suffer from spyware, viruses, & adware (which is what is usually being discussed in the threads that I've stumbled into).

:)

[fatality_uk]

It has to be a case of "horses for courses". There ARE times when although a post asks for Windows help, Linux may offer them a real and useful alternative. If that user doesn't need to know how to map keys in BioShock for instance, but wants to know how they can stop viruses from being downloaded by the kids from just happily clicking around the web.

But on the whole, yeah it does bug me a little that some people just randomly post "LINUX IS THE ANSWER" to almost every question.

[aysiu]

If someone says something along the lines of...
I'm sick and tired of Windows. It keeps crashing on me. The anti-virus and anti-spyware applications hog up all my RAM, and they don't seem to stop my computer from getting infected. All I want to do is email, surf the web, listen to music, and organize my photos. Why won't Windows let me do this without having me pull all my hair out first? How can I get Windows to behave better? ... then I will definitely suggest Linux as solution.

In any other scenario, I would help the user with her Windows problem and not suggest Linux. I might, however, if a particular application is giving her trouble, suggest an open source alternative (still a native Windows application, though).

[Bölvaður]

It is immensely stupefying how many people feel the urge to promote Linux on forums and IRC chats to people they do not know or will not help with diagnosing the problems and set up Linux.

I have never pressed anyone to switch and neither should any of you.

People that will feel as comfortable with Linux as Windows are people that are computer illiterate and will not be writing on forums.
For those I've given them free PCs with preinstalled xUbuntu for their personal computerized needs.

[jholzman]

The problem is Linux people appear to have brains and souls, which isn't to say Windows people do not but they do want world IT control. The thought of Active Directory domination and every LAN control by Bill Gates is enough to make me vomit. Windows bashing in. Get on the train or sell your soul to Microsoft.

No Linux is not the answer to every window problem. Unbuntu Linux is the free ware way. Not true with Redhat or Suse or AIX. The company want to control our minds and our systems. They want to decide which virus detection software we use and what databases we run. They want to control our very beings. They want our money and not our ideas. The un-enlighten human is just another tool for Microsoft to use in their attempt to control all IT. If Bill could bu our souls he would!
Even MAC is playing games to drain our pockets of gold.

I will fight for Unbuntu & freware until I can fight no more. If you do not like it go buy a Windows server and starting paying Bill. He wants your money and your soul.:biggrin:

[keykero]

The problem is Linux people appear to have brains and souls, which isn't to say Windows people do not but they do want world IT control. The thought of Active Directory domination and every LAN control by Bill Gates is enough to make me vomit. Windows bashing in. Get on the train or sell your soul to Microsoft.


I hope you're not serious. If you are, then that's the type of stuff that makes Linux look like it's only for complete flakes.

And I only recommend Linux to people I know for servers -- not that many people on the small business level are going to be setting up IIS servers anyway. Getting someone to switch their entire operating system (and all the applications they are used to using) over a fear of possibly getting "spyware and viruses" just isn't going to fly.

[fatality_uk]

I will fight for Unbuntu & freware until I can fight no more. If you do not like it go buy a Windows server and starting paying Bill. He wants your money and your soul.:biggrin:

While I admire your enthusiasm, I very much doubt that Steve Ballmer, as Mr. Gates has now left the building, is sitting there, twisting his moustache, in an evil 1920's silent movie villan, kind of way. Better to be firm in your assertions about the benefits of Linux.

[jbizcocho]

I have a question slightly off topic. Your signature states:
"Linux isn't about making a better version of Windows, it's about making a better version of UNIX. And to that end it has already exceeded all expectations."

Why is their a need to improve on UNIX by rebuilding it from the ground up as Linux? I hope that isn't to much of a mouthful but I see Linux as precisely what your quote says it isn't. I see it as a replacement to windows for those ready for it. It becomes a server only based on the applications bundled with it which means in theory it should be easier for clients and servers to speak with one another because it's the same kernel etc.

To reply along with the post, I agree after having tried to convince a few friends with varying levels of success, that Linux isn't for everyone and I reserve my comments now for those I think can survive without calling me for support each day. Some persons just don't need it.

I think Linux will come into it's own eventually and some people, at least more than now will see the light slowly, but I think it's a combination of resolution of the driver lockout issues, and windows interoperability maturity. I DEFINITELY think Ubuntu will be at the forefront of this. But the more I explore the *nix world the more I ask, why don't we all just run unix, and fix it instead of creating a million flavors of linux which to me seems harder to support. I mean don't you do the same things to a BSD to make it run etc?I'll stop here and probably create a new post in another section for the question but I found that signature interesting and didn't want to lose the thread.

[slimdog360]

I think that's pretty much it. The Yahoo! thread, the "I hate Linux users" thread, it all comes down to the fact that it seems like the public face of Linux users is people who think that the solution to every problem is to say "try Linux, you won't have that problem".

Can't get Outlook to store contacts? Try Linux.

Have a virus? Install Linux.

Want to change the appearance of your Windows taskbar? Give Linux a go.

Slow bootup? Linux's is faster.

And so on. I think we, as a community, need to make the oath not to suggest Linux unless it's actually warranted. If the person is having such a deep and inherent problem with Windows that won't really get solved and a transition to Linux would truly help. Not just for software gripes or little things.

Am I wrong?
just use linux, that will fix your problem.

[keykero]

Why is their a need to improve on UNIX by rebuilding it from the ground up as Linux?

The need was that UNIX (or actually, MINIX, which was a Unix-like OS) would run on x86 processors like the 386. That is exactly why Linus Torvalds started the project in the first place -- not to "replace Windows" and certainly not to start some computerized holy war as other posters in this thread allude to.

[Lord Illidan]

The need was that UNIX (or actually, MINIX, which was a Unix-like OS) would run on x86 processors like the 386. That is exactly why Linus Torvalds started the project in the first place -- not to "replace Windows" and certainly not to start some computerized holy war as other posters in this thread allude to.

I always thought he wanted to start the Tux crusades.

[Sporkman]

just use linux, that will fix your problem.

:lol:

[happysmileman]

If you use Linux you don't have to put up with fanboys telling you to switch to Linux

[Knyven]

Because thats how word of mouth works. And is true
We dont have millions of dollars to do Advertising.

[AsoSako]

Guys relax. Ubuntu is meant to be used by anyone. The people in this world are very diverse. This means that the Ubuntu users would also be diverse. There are many of us and although we all use Linux we are still all very different. Therefore it doesn't matter that someone said something about some Ubuntu user. You should refer only to that person and not the whole comunity. It is like talking about people from one nation in general. Only because one person from that nation likes to read stories by Jack London all the time, let's say, doesn't mean that everyone in that country also likes to read those stories all the time. The only thing that matters is that you chose to use Ubuntu yourself, and whatever you do with that decision is you own personal choice.

And besides even if people do hate our community, it doesn't really matter. The opinions of others don't really matter in the long run if you are happy with your own choises. Why should you care if someone does not like what you do if you personally like what you do...

[Knyven]

The answer is: If you have Windows problem, go ask Microsoft. Isnt it what people paid for? Paid OS free Support.

If they are going to ask for community support like yahoo answers or tech forums, they will get the same kind of responses:)

[Mateo]

Agreed, answering someone's question without attempting to answer their question is called spamming.

[rosegarden78]

QUOTE: I'm sick and tired of Windows. It keeps crashing on me. The anti-virus and anti-spyware applications hog up all my RAM, and they don't seem to stop my computer from getting infected. All I want to do is email, surf the web, listen to music, and organize my photos. Why won't Windows let me do this without having me pull all my hair out first? How can I get Windows to behave better? ... then I will definitely suggest Linux as solution.

QUOTE: I have never pressed anyone to switch and neither should any of you.

I pressed my mother to switch because she was 'pulling her hair out' from the symptoms above and blaming me for her 'computer problems' when her hardware was ok. Now we've never had another yelling match over who 'crashed the computer' since switching to Ubuntu. :KS

[RebounD11]

I hope this hasn't been said here before (I didn't have the patience to read the whole discussion :D) but if Linux users don't promote Linux, who is?

Aside the Linux oriented websites I didn't see a single Linux advertisement. Nothing... It's like it doesn't exist for someone who doesn't look specifically for it.
It may come up rarely in a Google search or 2 but I don't think that it's gonna come up in all and almost never on the first result (it happened that I searched for a Linux only app and I didn't get a Linux search result on the top of my Google search - can't remember hat it was, but I remember stating Linux in the search string).

So, since Linux is driven by the community why not let the community promote it?

[fatality_uk]

I hope this hasn't been said here before (I didn't have the patience to read the whole discussion :D) but if Linux users don't promote Linux, who is?

Aside the Linux oriented websites I didn't see a single Linux advertisement. Nothing... It's like it doesn't exist for someone who doesn't look specifically for it.
It may come up rarely in a Google search or 2 but I don't think that it's gonna come up in all and almost never on the first result (it happened that I searched for a Linux only app and I didn't get a Linux search result on the top of my Google search - can't remember hat it was, but I remember stating Linux in the search string).

So, since Linux is driven by the community why not let the community promote it?

Until now, Linux has only usually been promoted as a server. Novell have had a couple of ads out. I think the next 18 months might start seeing more specific desktop distor advertising. The problem is cash. $$$$. Ubuntu has some funding and what little money the other distros have, I think they want to focus that cash on the development side, rather than glossy 2 page adds in magazines.

[euchrid]

The problem is partly where you look for help. If you go to Yahoo! for answers, you're running into problems straight away. If a user goes to Yahoo! looking for Windows support instead of a Windows or technical community, then they're going to get 5 stupid answers for every useful one. Threads like "Why I hate Linux users" just show the level of intelligence on display over there.

I bet most of the people who reply 'use linux' are Windows users just having a laugh and being irritating. Linux users are either people who never use Windows, or use it as well (as a dual boot or at work or for games or whatever). The amount of technical ability required in setting up and running Linux means it's unlikely Linux users will hang out a Windows forum or thread just to answer 'use linux'. Or maybe I still have too much faith in people (except those at Yahoo!).

[gn2]

I think it's OK to suggest Linux in some circumstances.
Depends on the nature of the forum though.

Examples:
Q: "I've lost my Xp product key and I can't afford a new one, help"
A: "Have you considered using Linux, it's free"

Or
Q: "How do I re-install Windows 98?"
A: "Have you considered using Linux it's more secure"

Or
Q: "My old PC will not run Xp how can I upgrade it?"
A: "Have you considered Linux, it works very well on older hardware"

But not
Q: "How do I edit my registry?"
A: "Use linux it doesn't have a registry"
That's just plain wrong.

[forrestcupp]

@OP: I agree (assuming that this kind of behaviour does happen - I don't go to many non-Linux forums).

Why Linux users feel it necessary to hang out in Windows support type forums, I have no idea.

I would much rather hang out here and help people who want my help than try and act as Linux missionary anywhere else.
Well, dual-booters have reasons to hang out in Windows support forums. But this isn't just about Windows forums. I see this extreme behavior in a lot of blog reply message boards, message boards for tech articles, and cross-platform software forums. It's all over the place, and it's pretty ridiculous.

I know people get excited about something they love and they don't realize how ridiculous they look, but I wish they could. The problem with this attitude is that sometimes it is demeaning to people. The Linux supporter appears to think that a Windows user is inferior or ignorant. People don't like to be accused of being inferior or ignorant.

There is a right and wrong way to do things.


I think it's OK to suggest Linux in some circumstances.
Depends on the nature of the forum though.

Examples:
Q: "I've lost my Xp product key and I can't afford a new one, help"
A: "Have you considered using Linux, it's free"

Or
Q: "How do I re-install Windows 98?"
A: "Have you considered using Linux it's more secure"

Or
Q: "My old PC will not run Xp how can I upgrade it?"
A: "Have you considered Linux, it works very well on older hardware"

But not
Q: "How do I edit my registry?"
A: "Use linux it doesn't have a registry"
That's just plain wrong.

I think example 1 & 3 is ok. But in example 2, they are asking for specific help. They want to know how to reinstall Win98, not if there are any good alternatives. They may like Win98 and have software they need to run on it.

[oomingmak]

If you use Linux you don't have to put up with fanboys telling you to switch to Linux
True, .... they just start arguing with you about distros or Desktop Environments instead.

[aysiu]

I hope this hasn't been said here before (I didn't have the patience to read the whole discussion :D) but if Linux users don't promote Linux, who is?

So, since Linux is driven by the community why not let the community promote it? No is saying Don't ever promote Linux.

The title of the thread is Linux users stop suggesting Linux in response to every Windows problem.

There are appropriate times to suggest Linux and inappropriate times to suggest Linux. If you suggest Linux in response to every Windows problem you hear about, then that's just obnoxious.

[gn2]

But in example 2, they are asking for specific help. They want to know how to reinstall Win98, not if there are any good alternatives. They may like Win98 and have software they need to run on it.

True, but the wording makes all the difference.

There's a world of difference between "have you considered using Linux, it's more secure?" and "Don't use Windows 98 it's ridden with security holes, use Linux instead"

I believe in some circumstances it's fair to suggest a current secure OS to anyone considering using an obsolete and insecure one.
A lot depends on the context though, as I said before it depends on the type/style/theme of the forum.

[aysiu]

Windows 98 no longer receives security updates from Microsoft.

[gn2]

Windows 98 no longer receives security updates from Microsoft.

Which is why I used it as an example of a legitimate instance to suggest Linux usage.

[forrestcupp]

True, but the wording makes all the difference.

There's a world of difference between "have you considered using Linux, it's more secure?" and "Don't use Windows 98 it's ridden with security holes, use Linux instead"

I believe in some circumstances it's fair to suggest a current secure OS to anyone considering using an obsolete and insecure one.
A lot depends on the context though, as I said before it depends on the type/style/theme of the forum.
Well, you're right about the wording. I've heard people say things similar to

Lol, what a N00b! Win98 is an old decrepit pos, just like you are if you don't use Linux. Linux is way more secure and it blows your pos OS out of the water.

[iPower]

get a mac :lolflag:

[jbaerbock]

I suggest Linux to my brother when he has to re-install windows 1-2 times a year because of cloggs and he has to defrag every few months. Otherwise he knows Windows well enough to keep it running well.

[yorkie]

I don`t think there is any reason to promote any O/S to any one,because people will, in the end use whatever works for them.
I know some of my friends still use old versions of Windows far back as Windows for Workroups others still use Amiga`s because they are enough for what they use them for.
Most problems people have with their O/S of their choice is with "tinkering with it".At the end of the day no O/S is perfect.If Ubuntu was perfect there would be no need for other Linux Distro`s. I use Linux Ubuntu because I like it, in my home my wife uses Windows XP my son has a Mac. all through personal choice. Its good to have a choice.
So there`s` no need to push Linux on people. People will choose it if suits them.

[KiwiNZ]

The problem is Linux people appear to have brains and souls, which isn't to say Windows people do not but they do want world IT control. The thought of Active Directory domination and every LAN control by Bill Gates is enough to make me vomit. Windows bashing in. Get on the train or sell your soul to Microsoft.

No Linux is not the answer to every window problem. Unbuntu Linux is the free ware way. Not true with Redhat or Suse or AIX. The company want to control our minds and our systems. They want to decide which virus detection software we use and what databases we run. They want to control our very beings. They want our money and not our ideas. The un-enlighten human is just another tool for Microsoft to use in their attempt to control all IT. If Bill could bu our souls he would!
Even MAC is playing games to drain our pockets of gold.

I will fight for Unbuntu & freware until I can fight no more. If you do not like it go buy a Windows server and starting paying Bill. He wants your money and your soul.:biggrin:

I disagree with this approach.

Its all about choice, The choice to use Linux or OSX or Windows if you so choose.

And who in the Windows World decides what Virus detection you use ???
I am a Windows user and I make that decision .

[LaRoza]

Its all about choice, The choice to use Linux or OSX or Windows if you so choose.

And who in the Windows World decides what Virus detection you use ???
I am a Windows user and I make that decision .

+1

(As for Windows, I do not use anything other than the hardware firewall in router and my brains.)