Dangerous rhythbox feature makes it a bad choice as default software.

[Cadoo]

Two things happened this weekend that worry me.


#1 - "Move to Trash" in rhythmbox is to easy to do.

It's in a right click menu that is easily clicked accidently (Guilty - My Entire Music Library)


It doesn't prompt you with a warning you. (No other sane music player does this without a chance to cancel.)


#2 - Rhythmbox moves the files to the trash but there is no way to restore them properly because the folder structure is lost. (The folders stay where they were which is part of the problem. So my 6000+ files are now neatly organized into one directory)

I personally think this is terrible behavior for software that most new users will be using. Move to Trash should be an optional feature and it should be turned off by default in Ubuntu.

Some final confessions:
I use amarok for pretty much anything related to music.
The silver lining is that this has pushed me to rerip my CD collection in flac.

[lian1238]

I agree.
But I don't use the right-click menu.

[DrMega]

I agree, but I don't use RythmBox. I use XMMS, and sometime Amorak.

[marco123]

Wow, that sucks, sorry to hear that. I guess it's just another reminder that Linux is a lot more powerful and doesn't hold your hand as much as other OSs. (Although Ubuntu usually does.)

On the plus side FLAC is awesome and I've yet to find a better sounding format. It's good for backing up also. :)

[speedwell68]

Frankly rythmbox sucks anyway. I use Goobox as a CD player and Songbird as a MP3 player.

[conehead77]

I just tried it and moved a (rather unimportant) file to Trash within Rythmbox.
Its gone from Rhythmbox, but browsing my music files with Nautilus showed the file again.
In Rhythmbox, it showed up in "missing files". After i removed it from missing files i could import the file again from my music folder.
So it seems to me you cant delete files from within Rhythmbox at all.

[aysiu]

That's not unique to Rhythmbox--the entire way Gnome operates. Nautilus also does not have a "restore from trash" option in general.

[samwyse]

KDE implemented trash restoring 3 years ago and it didn't take long for a new project like Thunar to implement it. Both are using the same standard. One of these years it will be implemented in Gnome/Nautilus :)

[ssam]

you should report a bug

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs

[~LoKe]

As a veteran Ubuntu user, I fell for this as well. I had to get gtkpod to retag all my albums and resort the rest manually. I figured that option was to remove tracks from the playlist, not my physical library.

[aysiu]

KDE implemented trash restoring 3 years ago and it didn't take long for a new project like Thunar to implement it. Both are using the same standard. One of these years it will be implemented in Gnome/Nautilus :)
I doubt it. Read about it here:
[IDEA] Nautilus "Restore from Trash" (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=409817)


you should report a bug

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs The bug for this was filed in August 2000 (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41850). It is now January 2008.

[ssam]

I doubt it. Read about it here:
[IDEA] Nautilus "Restore from Trash" (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=409817)

The bug for this was filed in August 2000 (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41850). It is now January 2008.

i mean rhythmbox not warning you its about to move your music files to the trash

[billgoldberg]

Yeah, I don't think much people actually use rythmbox. (it just sucks)

I use songbird and I think it's the best one ever created by the whole of mankind.

[aysiu]

i mean rhythmbox not warning you its about to move your music files to the trash
And I mean the problem is just a symptom of this larger Gnome defect.

[steeleyuk]

I'm not going to try and defend that feature but I can 'just' about see the reasoning for including it.

Rhythmbox is as much a media organiser as it is a player so including it allows the user to manage their collection completely. Including it as an option would have been the sane way about going about it, and make it turned off by default.

Then again, it really should warn you that 'Move to Trash' will destroy the directory structure...

[jviscosi]

#2 - Rhythmbox moves the files to the trash but there is no way to restore them properly because the folder structure is lost. (The folders stay where they were which is part of the problem. So my 6000+ files are now neatly organized into one directory)

I use amarok for pretty much anything related to music.
The silver lining is that this has pushed me to rerip my CD collection in flac.

If your folder structure was one that derived from the music files' tags, and you can define the pattern in Amarok, then Amarok's "manage files" option should be able to reorganize your files for you.

On the other hand, good on you for re-ripping in FLAC. You're more ambitious than I am! ;-)

[aysiu]

I forget where it is, but there's some post someone made recently about using Gtkpod to reorganize music files back into folders and subfolders based on ID3 tag and then copy them back to the music folder that Rhythmbox scans.

[alwiap]

Speaking of rhythmbox issues, does anyone know how to get Rhythmbox to NOT do anything when my iPod is connected? I use rockbox on my iPod so I don't need Rhythmbox at all for the iPod, and every time I connect my iPod I have to make sure Rhythmbox is closed so it doesn't recognize. Is there a way to have Rhythmbox not recognize my iPod?

[Cadoo]

alwiap
System > Removable Drives and Media > Multimedia tab > Portable Music Players

[mrgnash]

Yeah, I don't think much people actually use rythmbox. (it just sucks)

I use songbird and I think it's the best one ever created by the whole of mankind.

I do, and I find it a lot better than the 'competitors.'

[bufsabre666]

I do, and I find it a lot better than the 'competitors.'

i love rhythmbox its simple looking but not so simple it loses features

[Mateo]

I like that it doesn't have a pop-up warning message. I despise all pop-up warning messages. If I didn't want to move to trash I wouldn't have clicked it. Yes I'm sure I want to move to Trash, I cllcked move to trash didn't I! they annoy me.

[voteforpedro36]

I use/d Rhythmbox alot, and I never noticed it... I don't think it's that big of a problem IMO.

[Cadoo]

Thank you all for your replies.

Remove and "Move to Trash" are right beside each other in the right click menu.

I think removing "Move to Trash" from the right click menu would be a good start. You can still use "Move to Trash" from the edit menu.

I also think that "Move to Trash" should prompt the user with a warning. Especially considering nautilus' inability to restore a file.

Mostly this worries me because it is installed by default in Ubuntu. It is also the default application that is loaded when a user connects their ipod/music player. Most of us that have experience with linux know of alternatives but a lot of new user will not. Inexperienced users generally do not install anything new and just use what is installed by default. Shouldn't our community hold the default software to higher usability standards.

I have backups of of my music library so this isn't a huge deal for me. For a new user this would be one of those screw this moments.

[p_quarles]

Remove and "Move to Trash" are right beside each other in the right click menu.
Little design flaws like that bug me too. In htop (enhanced version of the top command), F9 is "kill process," and F10 is "quit." It just seems like a good idea to physically separate functions which shouldn't be mistaken for one another.

[Mateo]

doesn't Q quit in htop too? i think that's what i use.

[p_quarles]

doesn't Q quit in htop too? i think that's what i use.
Yes, but the on-screen menu only lists the F10 option. I use the q key as well, and for precisely this reason.

[inversekinetix]

This is exactly why I hate these library/player systems. I use explorer to organise my files and use double click to start them playing. Works fine.







On the plus side FLAC is awesome and I've yet to find a better sounding format. It's good for backing up also. :)

It does sound good, but nothing sounds nicer than a cd/lp through a good amp and speakers. A close second is a compressed format through a nice soundcard (onkyo wavio http://onkyo.jp/wavio/)
and a nice amp and speakers.

[Cadoo]

I like that it doesn't have a pop-up warning message. I despise all pop-up warning messages. If I didn't want to move to trash I wouldn't have clicked it. Yes I'm sure I want to move to Trash, I cllcked move to trash didn't I! they annoy me.

That kind of behavior is fine in nautilus. In rhythmbox it is unexpected behavior because no other competing player handles it like this(that I know of). In nautilus if I accidently delete my music folder I drag it back to where it was with file structure intact. In rhythmbox "Move to Trash" is a very destructive when you accidently delete your entire music library.

[alwiap]

alwiap
System > Removable Drives and Media > Multimedia tab > Portable Music Players

ty!

[~LoKe]

Little design flaws like that bug me too. In htop (enhanced version of the top command), F9 is "kill process," and F10 is "quit." It just seems like a good idea to physically separate functions which shouldn't be mistaken for one another.

I disagree. With htop, you have to hit F9 and then enter to kill the process. Plus, you can't kill a root run process with F9, unless you open htop with sudo.

[~LoKe]

That kind of behavior is fine in nautilus. In rhythmbox it is unexpected behavior because no other competing player handles it like this(that I know of). In nautilus if I accidently delete my music folder I drag it back to where it was with file structure intact. In rhythmbox "Move to Trash" is a very destructive when you accidently delete your entire music library.

Yep. It moves all the files but leaves the empty folders. :confused:

[BandD]

This is a little off topic, but does anyone know how to change the text in the titlebar of Rhythmbox. By default it says, 'Music Player' when nothing is playing and I'd like to change that if it is easily done.

[kidux]

I just freaking did this. I didn't have the gstreamer plugin installed, so whe Rythmbox attempted to import the files it put all the mp3 files into the Import Error section. I thought I was deleting the freaking errors, not the actual mp3s!!! So now I'll have to spend the time sorting those out later. Bah!

[disturbed1]

I've been using Rhythmbox for around 6 years. Never had this issue. I'm sorry, I just can not understand how someone could accidentally click on "Move to Trash". The menu is well laid out, and very easy to see.

Perhaps someone should also file a bug report because it's too easy to permanently remove the wrong file through spelling mistakes using the rm command :roll: Or another bug report because when I right click on the pannel and chose "Delete Panel" it doesn't ask me 3 times if I'm sure. :roll:

This is what I love about Linux. It treats the user as if he/she knows what they are doing. You passed a command and I execute it I honestly don't see anything more perfect than that.

[geoken]

For all the people pushing songbird, does it allow me to transfer anything to my Mp3 player yet? Also, how do I add a rating column to the main window so I can sort my tracks by rating?

When songbird fully supports transfering songs to my mp3 player (bonus points if it allows me to simply transfer the playlist and it transfers all songs) I'll propably switch to it. I just wish they had some option to let it use your system theme. I'm sure there are a lot of cool 'feathers' but it seems like a pain to find a matching 'feather' every time I tweak my system theme.

[kidux]

I've been using Rhythmbox for around 6 years. Never had this issue. I'm sorry, I just can not understand how someone could accidentally click on "Move to Trash". The menu is well laid out, and very easy to see.

Perhaps someone should also file a bug report because it's too easy to permanently remove the wrong file through spelling mistakes using the rm command :roll: Or another bug report because when I right click on the pannel and chose "Delete Panel" it doesn't ask me 3 times if I'm sure. :roll:

This is what I love about Linux. It treats the user as if he/she knows what they are doing. You passed a command and I execute it I honestly don't see anything more perfect than that.

In my case, I thought I was deleting errors, not the mp3's. There was no warning that it was going to delete the actual files. I like Linux because it does what I tell it to as well, but this kind of unexpected and destructive action could at least be toned down with a warning. The other problem is there is no easy way of restoring the deleted files back to their original location.

[aysiu]

but this kind of unexpected and destructive action could at least be toned down with a warning. Moving files to the trash is not a destructive action. The files still exist. They haven't been deleted, just moved.
The other problem is there is no easy way of restoring the deleted files back to their original location. That's a Gnome/Nautilus problem, not a Rhythmbox-specific one. I, too, wish that would be fixed.

This bug was reported to the Ubuntu devs three years ago:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/nautilus/+bug/14412

It was also filed upstream for Gnome almost eight years ago:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41850

The latest developer remark I can see about it is from 2006:
Yes, because fixing it is nontrivial. One has to iron out first a GnomeVFS API for trash handling, which does all the reverting for us. We need more than a
simple gnome_vfs_find_directory with GNOME_VFS_DIRECTORY_KIND_TRASH. I'm not a developer, so I don't know the technical details of how it's "nontrivial," but I do know that Nautilus still can't restore from the trash, and both Konqueror and Thunar can.

[bash]

The new GVFS backend that is already in hardy should make it possible to fix the "restore from trash" problem. The question is just how high on the priority list it is, as implementing and porting everything from GnomeVFS to GVFS is quite a huge task and there a more important issues first before we get to restore from trash (a.k.a. getting everything working with GVFS for starters)

[kidux]

Moving files to the trash is not a destructive action. The files still exist. They haven't been deleted, just moved. That's a Gnome/Nautilus problem, not a Rhythmbox-specific one. I, too, wish that would be fixed.

This bug was reported to the Ubuntu devs three years ago:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/nautilus/+bug/14412

It was also filed upstream for Gnome almost eight years ago:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41850

The latest developer remark I can see about it is from 2006: I'm not a developer, so I don't know the technical details of how it's "nontrivial," but I do know that Nautilus still can't restore from the trash, and both Konqueror and Thunar can.

Indeed, the file is still there, but as others have stated the directory structure is destroyed in this process, and without the aforementioned restore option, it makes it difficult and time consuming to get those files back in the proper location.

Also, like me, if one thought they were deleting error messages and then (not me) didn't bother looking at the contents of the trash before emptying it, they just lost their library. I'm not making excuses, just pointing out the possibilities.

[aysiu]

Indeed, the file is still there, but as others have stated the directory structure is destroyed in this process, and without the aforementioned restore option, it makes it difficult and time consuming to get those files back in the proper location.

Also, like me, if one thought they were deleting error messages and then (not me) didn't bother looking at the contents of the trash before emptying it, they just lost their library. I'm not making excuses, just pointing out the possibilities.
I totally agree that it stinks and should be fixed. I was just taking issue with the phrase destructive action, which I think is a bit of an extreme assessment of the problem. It's more of an inconvenience, really.

[elamericano]

Restore from trash *is* coming soon, according to this item about Hardy:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha6#head-315aa0efe2bb8e1c26ca6382f110c4b424f6e942

In the near future, my friend.

[drbob07]

Wow, that sucks, sorry to hear that. I guess it's just another reminder that Linux is a lot more powerful and doesn't hold your hand as much as other OSs. (Although Ubuntu usually does.)

On the plus side FLAC is awesome and I've yet to find a better sounding format. It's good for backing up also. :)

You won't find anything better sounding then FLAC, it's lossless, just a perfect rip of the CD under some slight compression (not encoding)


Personally I use Foobar in WINE. I know it's a sin, but I couldn't part with Foobar. I never "accidentally" right-clicked using Rhythmbox though, so I don't think its all to dangerous, since I am king of stupid mistakes.

[kidux]

I totally agree that it stinks and should be fixed. I was just taking issue with the phrase destructive action, which I think is a bit of an extreme assessment of the problem. It's more of an inconvenience, really.

Perhaps you are right. Destructive is a rather harsh word to use for this problem. A very big inconvenience and annoyance is definitely true though. :)

[aysiu]

Restore from trash *is* coming soon, according to this item about Hardy:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha6#head-315aa0efe2bb8e1c26ca6382f110c4b424f6e942

In the near future, my friend.
That's great. Took only 8 years to implement. I really like the direction Gnome devs are headed in. It's just a wonder to me how long it takes them. Maybe in 2016 we can finally get an easy way to change the screensaver slideshow directory without having to use xscreensaver instead of gnome-screensaver.