KDE4.....for Windows ?!

[MaximB]

KDE4 soon will have an easy installation for Windows, for now you can compile it in Windows
" The good news for Windows users is KDE 4.0 can be installed on Windows as well; while using a Windows machine you can take a dive into the ocean of powerful applications, awesome user experience and the freedom Richard M Stallman talks about. An advanced user can compile KDE 4.0 for Windows through the toolkit available, but an ordinary 'click-next' user will have to wait for a while for the Windows-ready-to-install KDE version."

Taken from : http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/24071/news.htm

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I think it's VERY BAD thing for the GNU/Linux community as now it would be even harder to convert people to use GNU/Linux.
If before we can attract Windows users by the pretty graphics, now it's going to be harder.
Already most of the Free as Freedom programs and applications we have already have a Windows ports as well, there is less and less things unique to GNU/Linux (except for the freedom which the normal users don't care about).

Yeah you can say that now the Windows users will acknowledge the power and beauty of GNU/Linux and the Free source, but then they already have it now - so they don't care.

I HAVE MADE A MISTAKE IN THE POLL - IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN :
KDE4 : FOR WINDOWS NOT LINUX.

[SunnyRabbiera]

actually i think its a good thing, as it can help transition

[snakeeyes]

What horrible news, I really liked that KDE is for Unix systems, now Linux won't feel unique.

[Xavieran]

I read somewhere that they only really plan on supporting it to help corporations transition from a windows based environment to a linux based one...

But...Go GNOME!!!:):):)

[1Slater1]

Well converting people is not the Linux goal per say. If some one wants to be spied up on and crawling from trojans and viruses, loosing important data that are crucial to his/her work then by ALL means he's free to choose Windows :) Why stop people from the absolute pleasure of starting now and then from square 1? Why deprive them from the joy of having to spend more time working instead with their families?
Sunny my friend, it's a free world we live in, so to speak. But if you ask me, the "click/next" people are followers, and here comes the true question: Does the Linux community need simple followers? I think not. You need a perception shift to migrate from Windows to Linux and unless Linux becomes a commercial mongrel like Windows (i hope not) , so you can get all that support and software exclusiveness, that shift isn't that easy to happen. So KDE4? Give it to them, it's free after all, it's the content that matters not the wrapping, and KDE is only wrapping :P:guitar:

[GeneralZod]

Already most of the Free as Freedom programs and applications we have already have a Windows ports as well, there is less and less things unique to GNU/Linux (except for the freedom which the normal users don't care about).

Just in case people aren't aware: The KDE workspace (Plasma i.e. panel and desktop, KWin, etc) isn't being ported: just the libraries and as many apps as possible are being ported to run on Windows and OS X. Some apps (such as Konsole) might not make it, as they are pretty *NIX dependent.

[snakeeyes]

Just in case people aren't aware: The KDE workspace (Plasma i.e. panel and desktop, KWin, etc) isn't being ported: just the libraries and as many apps as possible are being ported to run on Windows and OS X. Some apps (such as Konsole) might not make it, as they are pretty *NIX dependent.
The thing is that Linux software developers shouldn't blindly port stuff to Windows or OS X when Apple or Microsoft don't give a damn about Linux.

[Incense]

I really don't see how this is bad for the Linux community. We already have OpenOffice.org, inkscape, and gimp just to name a few on all the platforms, why not share these amazing applications from KDE? They represent (IMO) some of the best that open source has to offer. I would love to be able to use Amarok, koffice, or K3B (to name a few) on windows. Besides, some people simply can not get linux to work on their hardware, or have software that locks them into windows. Why not share a bit of the love with them?

[Nunu]

Has anyone tried to install KDE 4 on 7.10?? and is it listed in the repositories yet?

[GeneralZod]

Has anyone tried to install KDE 4 on 7.10?? and is it listed in the repositories yet?

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=663866


The thing is that Linux software developers shouldn't blindly port stuff to Windows or OS X when Apple or Microsoft don't give a damn about Linux.

Developers should do what ever they want with the software they've written. Most software is written to be used, and by as many people as possible, and portability is one of the hallmarks of good software design.

[Incense]

The thing is that Linux software developers shouldn't blindly port stuff to Windows or OS X when Apple or Microsoft don't give a damn about Linux.

MS is scared to death of linux, and that's why (IMO) they don't share. Give them time and they will learn that they need to play nice or parish. Linux is growing by leaps and bounds every year. The linux desktop keeps getting better, more stable, and easier for the everyday person to work with. With KDE and FLOSS apps on windows, the transition to a fully open platform, will be even easier for people. Ok I'm done now... carry on.

[MaximB]

Has anyone tried to install KDE 4 on 7.10?? and is it listed in the repositories yet?
I have installed it using this guide : http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4117309&postcount=60
Please do not post in this thread a "help topics about installing stuff" just search the forums or open a new thread in the right place.

[Incense]

Has anyone tried to install KDE 4 on 7.10?? and is it listed in the repositories yet?

From http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.php


Instructions:

* Remove previous KDE 4 packages, they are not compatible (apt-get remove kdelibs5 kde4base-data kde4libs-data)
* Add deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu gutsy main to your /etc/apt/sources.list
* Install kde4-core, note that PPAs aren't authenticated so you will likely get a warning when installing
* KDE 4 apps should appear in your KDE 3 K-menu or you can run a full session by selecting "KDE 4" from your login manager.
* To avoid having to start a second X server for a full session install xserver-xephyr and run Xephyr :1 then and run /usr/lib/kde4/bin/startkde in the Xerphyr xterm.

[Nunu]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=663866



Developers should do what ever they want with the software they've written. Most software is written to be used, and by as many people as possible, and portability is one of the hallmarks of good software design.

Cool thanks guess i will wait for KDE 4.1 :)

[Tom Mann]

I think it's a good idea to be honest, Windows will still have it's flaws and anyone moving from Vista's look to KDE4 will be more likely to move to Linux in the long run, if they find KDE does everything they need :)

[Eddie Wilson]

Kde will always be associated with a linux system. Its buggy now and can only give the Windows user a bad image of linux I think. It seems that some people think this would make Windows a better os. It won't. It will still be Windows with a little different look. I don't think its needed and I don't think it will do any good. I really don't believe that it will help to move people to using a linux system. Windows users will look at it only as a way to run good free software on their Windows system and as was brought out early in the thread, this can already be done.

Thanks,
Eddie

[forrestcupp]

The thing is that Linux software developers shouldn't blindly port stuff to Windows or OS X when Apple or Microsoft don't give a damn about Linux.

It's about the users of Microsoft and Apple products, not about MS and Apple. If we don't care about the end-users, then we're no better than MS and Apple.

[Jucato]

That statement from the article is a bit uninformed or incomplete. Here's the real thing (note the emphasis):

Some parts of KDE can be ported to Windows.

1. Some parts: Not all of KDE 4 can be ported/will run on Windows. As mentioned, Plasma is one thing that won't be. Some parts are heavily dependent on X and Unix idiosyncrasies. Also, in a given module (kdenetwork, kdemultimedia, etc), only some parts can be compiled on Windows. So "KDE 4 will run on windows" is too broad and too general, and also not 100% accurate.

2. can be: Doesn't mean "will". Connected to the point above, only those apps that can compile or run without specific dependencies on *nix features can be made to compile and run on Windows. Being a KDE 4 app, based on Qt 4 (which is cross-platform) by itself doesn't guarantee that it will compile or run on Windows too.

3. "ported": Some work has to be done in order to make those KDE 4 apps run on Windows. And in some cases, a lot of work. Just because Qt 4 is cross-platform, doesn't automagically mean that KDE 4 will be too. And even while kdelibs (core KDE libraries) have been ported (mostly I think), there are still other things to be done. And more importantly, someone has to do it. Usually it is the maintainer of the app who decides whether the app will be ported to Windows. There is no concerted, official, effort from KDE itself about this. Mostly just a group of few enthusiasts (at least it's a group.. the KDE-Darwin/Mac "group" is, I think, only one person).

Will it be good for Linux or not? Too early to tell. And KDE in Windows is still probably too small to small to make a dent in Windows-users world. After all, it took some time for even Firefox to gain a following. In some ways, it could be good. Exposure to free software on Windows can be an opportunity to eventually migrate to Linux or BSD (that's how I started, through my encounter with Blender). It could also be good by showing mercy and shedding some quality software on those poor souls in Windows. It could also be good way to introduce would-be developers to some better software development frameworks (the world isn't just made up of Visual Basic and .NET :P).

But I guess I'm personally wary of such movements in KDE. But I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude on this one.

[snakeeyes]

No, seriously I don't want to see any kde stuff go over to windows. Why do Linux developers bother about those people who don't care about us. As for making the transition easier they don't need to. Haven't u noticed whenever people go from Windows to Mac they never complain its different than Windows they just live with it and learn to like it but when people go from Windows to Linux so many of them complain its not like windows, my windows apps don't work on linux and stuff. If anyone wants to use Linux they should get used to Linux just like we all did.

[bufsabre666]

No, seriously I don't want to see any kde stuff go over to windows. Why do Linux developers bother about those people who don't care about us. As for making the transition easier they don't need to. Haven't u noticed whenever people go from Windows to Mac they never complain its different than Windows they just live with it and learn to like it but when people go from Windows to Linux so many of them complain its not like windows, my windows apps don't work on linux and stuff. If anyone wants to use Linux they should get used to Linux just like we all did.

becuase as stated in a previous post that makes us no better then ms or apple. its open source that means we should make it work on everything, thats the nature of open source

[MaximB]

Jucato - according to the article I read some parts (indeed some and not all) were already ported to Windows, and in a few weeks or less will be an easy installer for the Windows users to use. (currently it's available from source).
But if you suspect that the article I read was incorrect please tell me which article is correct then.

[qazwsx]

Actually I was very proud KDE user because I used almoust exclusively apps that couldn't run on Windows.

Well it's open source and I have to accept it. I also think that there are lots of KDE users who needs Windows daily and this makes their lives littel bit easier. After all it will be far from 100 % KDE experience :).

[Incense]

I don't want to say it (the article) is incorrect, just a bit misleading. KDE4 on windows (from what I understand) is working like that: You are adding KDE libraries to windows, and running QT apps that have been recompiled for windows and depend on those libraries. So you will be able to run QT4 apps that have been packaged for windows, but you're not going to be running plasma or the full K desktop. That is how I understand it. I could be mistaken though.

[davtaine]

I don't want to say it (the article) is incorrect, just a bit misleading. KDE4 on windows (from what I understand) is working like that: You are adding KDE libraries to windows, and running QT apps that have been recompiled for windows and depend on those libraries. So you will be able to run QT4 apps that have been packaged for windows, but you're not going to be running plasma or the full K desktop. That is how I understand it. I could be mistaken though.

Correct! and again... Aaron J. Seigo says: just in case there is confusion on this point, the workspace is *NOT* being ported to windows (or mac.) ...so you can just use applications like amarok or kmail on windows. Just like you already can use Pidgin (gtk) on windows.

[Jucato]

No, seriously I don't want to see any kde stuff go over to windows. Why do Linux developers bother about those people who don't care about us.

Aren't you generalizing a bit too much? "Windows user" == "doesn't care about Linux"? Until two years ago, I have never heard of Linux. It was my exposure to Blender, an open source application, that led me to learn about Linux and move to it eventually. You're actually condemning Windows users, quite unjustly too. And so what if some Windows users don't care about Linux or Free Software? As people of Free and Open Source software, we should know and behave better.

MaximB:

I'm just saying that some parts of KDE can get ported. Some have actually been ported already. The point is that:

1. Not everything can or will be ported
2. It all depends on the app's maintainer.

Workspace (with Plasma) won't be ported. It also doesn't make sense to port apps that are very *nix specific (kuser, for example). If you examine the CMakeLists.txt file of each KDE module (kdenetwork, kdemultimedia, kdegraphics, etc.) You'll find which apps are available on Unix, Windows, and Mac.

[GSF1200S]

Correct! and again... Aaron J. Seigo says: just in case there is confusion on this point, the workspace is *NOT* being ported to windows (or mac.) ...so you can just use applications like amarok or kmail on windows. Just like you already can use Pidgin (gtk) on windows.

The day KDE 5 (yes 5, in the way future) works on Windows (full desktop) is a very sad day.

Pardon me for being a little elitist here, but Linux already has its lackings. What strengths we do have we need to develop and we need to keep; porting it to Windows wont help us.

You guys act as if people are going to marvel at KDE4's programs and be like "allow me to pay homage to Linux, the OS that spawned Amarok 2." This is a fantasy- people are going to look at google screenshots and read a review or two and then download-->next-->next-->"Amarok2 is proud to be part of OSS..." yeah, yeah-->next and never give linux a shot.

The people who use Linux for the most part are at least open minded and reasonably to very intelligent, and thats what set of eyes you guys are viewing this with. I think you underestimate the number of idiots we have in the world- KDE4 for Windows doesnt really bother me that much- but if you want Linux to "compete" then exclusivity is your friend.

Oh boy, I can feel the backlash coming considering it was 47-11 in terms of yes or no...

[snakeeyes]

I agree with u, the dumbest thing Linux developers can do is port their best applications on Windows. A normal user like doesn't care about opensource or free software, I just want good software and giving our best stuff to the others is a stupid move. If most Linux apps will be ported for Windows then no one will ever consider Linux.

[snakeeyes]

Aren't you generalizing a bit too much? "Windows user" == "doesn't care about Linux"? Until two years ago, I have never heard of Linux. It was my exposure to Blender, an open source application, that led me to learn about Linux and move to it eventually. You're actually condemning Windows users, quite unjustly too. And so what if some Windows users don't care about Linux or Free Software? As people of Free and Open Source software, we should know and behave better.

MaximB:

I'm just saying that some parts of KDE can get ported. Some have actually been ported already. The point is that:

1. Not everything can or will be ported
2. It all depends on the app's maintainer.

Workspace (with Plasma) won't be ported. It also doesn't make sense to port apps that are very *nix specific (kuser, for example). If you examine the CMakeLists.txt file of each KDE module (kdenetwork, kdemultimedia, kdegraphics, etc.) You'll find which apps are available on Unix, Windows, and Mac.
Listen to me, I know we should behave better but the point is that if u give all of our best apps to Windows or others then we will lose everything unique there is in Linux. What will Linux have left apart from being more secure, big deal. I can guarantee u that Microsoft will never port Office to Linux.

Eveyone who thinks logically knows that if u give your competitors the best of your world then u r crazy. Let me give u an example such as Apple's ilife suite, they will never port it over to Windows, why? Its one of the best software they have, without it again all that will be left of them is their hardware and OS. When I bought a Macbook, the only thing that kept me using OS X were its applications, there is nothing special about OS X. Same way even though I love Linux but if we port over our software to others there will be nothing special about us either. Linux developers should concentrate on improving our stuff rather than porting it over for others to use.

If everyone likes the idea of porting over our stuff to windows then lets port compiz fusion as well, what do u say? We r all so caring that right so lets port it over as well.

[chips24]

i HATE kde

[chips24]

i was using linux apps on window for a couple months...

[Erunno]

Listen to me, I know we should behave better but the point is that if u give all of our best apps to Windows or others then we will lose everything unique there is in Linux. What will Linux have left apart from being more secure, big deal. I can guarantee u that Microsoft will never port Office to Linux.

KDE is a for Unices and not Linux in particular although most of the userbase probably uses Linux. And reading Linux users proposing a vendor lock-in is more than odd. I don't want people to force using Linux. They should switch to it due to technical superiority and sympathy with the ideology behind it.


If everyone likes the idea of porting over our stuff to windows then lets port compiz fusion as well, what do u say? We r all so caring that right so lets port it over as well.

Not sure if it is even possible with being so strongly dependent on X(.org). Plus, unlike Linux I doubt that it's even possible to replace the window manager in Windows.

[DeadSuperHero]

I think going cross-platform is a great way to start getting more people interested in Open Source. I know loads of people who use Firefox and Opera, but don't use Linux. But, they'd never use IE again.
If we port high-quality, free, wonderful apps, people will notice. Not only that, but if they do make the switch, it makes the experience all the more wonderful, and they can show it to all their friends.
Take iTunes for example. Yes, it was a fluke that iPods got so popular, but when Apple ported their app to Windows, it raised their sales, and they got a lot of attention (both good and bad.) I know quite a few people who have switched to OSX just because of the familiarity of some of the apps. If we can do that with apps on a grander scale, and provide a wonderous environment for Linux, then it's a surefire way to get converts.

That's what I think anyway.

[Espreon]

Uh, yeah but KDE 4 for Winblow$ will not have things like Plasma or some of the other good stuff!

[FuturePilot]

As long as it doesn't take away from the main development for the Linux version, I guess it's OK.

[Vadi]

I really like it, because now excellent KDE apps will be avialable on windows also.

And, hey, if they'll like them so much, they'll want the whole desktop enviroment itself. Yay freedom of the choice.

[MaximB]

Uh, yeah but KDE 4 for Winblow$ will not have things like Plasma or some of the other good stuff!

I suspect that the windows users won't even know about the existence of Plasma and the other good stuff - therefore they might not be impressed and think that Free source software is a crap and won't even think about moving to GNU/Linux.

[Incense]

Listen to me, I know we should behave better but the point is that if u give all of our best apps to Windows or others then we will lose everything unique there is in Linux. What will Linux have left apart from being more secure, big deal. I can guarantee u that Microsoft will never port Office to Linux.

Eveyone who thinks logically knows that if u give your competitors the best of your world then u r crazy. Let me give u an example such as Apple's ilife suite, they will never port it over to Windows, why? Its one of the best software they have, without it again all that will be left of them is their hardware and OS. When I bought a Macbook, the only thing that kept me using OS X were its applications, there is nothing special about OS X. Same way even though I love Linux but if we port over our software to others there will be nothing special about us either. Linux developers should concentrate on improving our stuff rather than porting it over for others to use.

If everyone likes the idea of porting over our stuff to windows then lets port compiz fusion as well, what do u say? We r all so caring that right so lets port it over as well.


So are you saying that if we port ALL the Linux apps to windows, that you would switch to windows? Linux is so much more then just applications. People come to linux to use a FREE, secure,and open OS. People come here because they are not happy with their current OS and want something better. The Linux devs are not backing down on development of their own applications just because a windows port is coming out. The point IS to play nicely, and to get new users of this fantastic software interested in FLOSS, then sit back and watch the halo effect. What you are proposing is a closed system, and that only 1337 users are privy to using our software. Should Firefox and Thunderbird stop cross platform work, and focus ONLY on windows? What about OpenOffice, inkscape, gimp Blender and many others. Should they also pick sides? Of course not.

I for one look forward to using Amarok on windows AND my Linux installs. When I have to use windows for work, I don't think I have to tell you how nice it is to use the same apps I use in Linux. Just my .02.

[phrostbyte]

Oh come on, it's only the applications. KWin (and Compiz) are hopelessly dependent on X and may never get ported! Not to mention Plasma..

Plus if you want the best KDE expirence there is no other way but ontop of Linux or a POSIX kernel and X. On Windows and Mac you have the overhead of supporting multiple UI libraries at the same time (Qt, Win32, Coccoa, etc.).

Plus lets not forget the other advantages of Linux (package managers, better security, more flexiblity)..

[forrestcupp]

Plus, unlike Linux I doubt that it's even possible to replace the window manager in Windows.
Sure it is. It's called "shell replacement." Check out this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_shell_replacement). It lists a bunch of projects that are doing it right now.

[Erik Trybom]

Free software is much more than just Linux. If we can get people to use free software on Windows, that's a good thing in itself.

I don't think it will hurt Linux either. As a matter of fact, I think a lot of the KDE-on-Windows users will be people who normally use Linux but are forced for some reason to use Windows.

[Anthem]

The people who use Linux for the most part are at least open minded and reasonably to very intelligent,
Really? Could have fooled me with this post.

Have you guys ever migrated somebody to Linux? Being able to give people the apps and get them familiar with those before switching the OS is absolutely a killer feature. I'll be installing Amarok on my Windows box and DigiKam on my Mac box just as soon as those programs are available.

[GSF1200S]

Really? Could have fooled me with this post.

Have you guys ever migrated somebody to Linux? Being able to give people the apps and get them familiar with those before switching the OS is absolutely a killer feature. I'll be installing Amarok on my Windows box and DigiKam on my Mac box just as soon as those programs are available.
Wow. You did your part in proving me wrong man, except with yourself instead of me.

The thread itself asked the question "Is porting KDE4 to windows good for gnu/linux?" I responded to that question, and then you directed at me the above snide comment. I guess a person such as yourself isnt "open" to anything but what you feel is the correct answer... [/flames]

While it may be nice for us who already use Linux (as I myself would use Amarok if I used windows) guys/gals, I do not for one second believe that anyone will migrate to Linux as a result of these applications. If anything, their incentive will be diminished by already possessing these applications on an OS that simply has better gaming/application support. People in the world are largely influenced by the "trophy" view- its all about the 'best,' and most of all, what everyone ELSE is doing. Only through principle, curiousity, perhaps income (may have missed a few others) and eventually an understanding of capability, security, and stability, will people migrate to Linux. I fear that the OSS portion of these apps will be the only thing not to migrate, and all the work put in at one point by an entirely *nix based developing crew/users will be forgotten.

OSS is OSS, and I certainly am not going to change the freedom it has in going cross-platform, but thats just what I think pertaining to this issue. If it means anything, I do hope im wrong.

[Erunno]

Sure it is. It's called "shell replacement." Check out this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_shell_replacement). It lists a bunch of projects that are doing it right now.

Interesting, thanks for correcting me. I'll have to take a peek at these shell replacements.

[NoSmokingBandit]

Im kinda confused about the whole kde on windows deal. Im not sure what it does really. Is it like running a VM or is it more like wine in reverse? Or is it not that at all. Im really interested in this but i havent found any place that explined it for noobs.

[allforcarrie]

I would install KDE for windows becuse the same old windows gets boring.

[zugu]

I believe even the classic Windows XP theme is miles better than KDE4. I don't know, I just can't stand it. It makes me puke.

[snakeeyes]

If plasma comes on Windows as well, I will no longer be able to show off in front of Windows users. Seriously we will have such a big a loss if we give the enemy stuff we have been working on so long to improve without anyone's help.

[samwyse]

The KDE desktop or plasma depends on X stuff and will not be portable. Some apps like Amarok are possible to compile for Windows. I think also at least KOffice is going to be ported.

[DeadSuperHero]

I believe even the classic Windows XP theme is miles better than KDE4. I don't know, I just can't stand it. It makes me puke.

That's subjective, though. I actually quite like it, though the panel sure could use some improvents.

But like I said earlier, it won't be "giving stuff to the enemy". Porting Linux apps to Windows is a unique opportunity to show off the greatness of Open Source to a whole new target crowd. Imagine, people having more choices for Office suites, media players, games, etc. The more we port, the more we get supported.
Look at Firefox. Although it was originally for Windows, it's been ported to several OS'es. Not only that, but when it got ported, people were clamoring for it.
We get apps ported to Linux all the time, we ought to port some good stuff back, at least as bait.

[Incense]

To make it clear; once again the entire K desktop environment is NOT being ported to windows as a shell replacement. Only certain applications are being ported to windows.

[Depressed Man]

Wow. You did your part in proving me wrong man, except with yourself instead of me.

The thread itself asked the question "Is porting KDE4 to windows good for gnu/linux?" I responded to that question, and then you directed at me the above snide comment. I guess a person such as yourself isnt "open" to anything but what you feel is the correct answer... [/flames]

While it may be nice for us who already use Linux (as I myself would use Amarok if I used windows) guys/gals, I do not for one second believe that anyone will migrate to Linux as a result of these applications. If anything, their incentive will be diminished by already possessing these applications on an OS that simply has better gaming/application support. People in the world are largely influenced by the "trophy" view- its all about the 'best,' and most of all, what everyone ELSE is doing. Only through principle, curiousity, perhaps income (may have missed a few others) and eventually an understanding of capability, security, and stability, will people migrate to Linux. I fear that the OSS portion of these apps will be the only thing not to migrate, and all the work put in at one point by an entirely *nix based developing crew/users will be forgotten.

OSS is OSS, and I certainly am not going to change the freedom it has in going cross-platform, but thats just what I think pertaining to this issue. If it means anything, I do hope im wrong.

If they had to use those apps and games in the first place, they were never going switch. But for those who don't rely on those apps and games (not everyone plays Portal, Orange Box, uses Photoshop [well that works in Wine and Virtualization but not natively I think] etc..

Now if a person isn't very tech savvy to begin with, and thinks that they need Windows or OSX to do the basics (web browsing, email, whatever) and someone tells them or installs a open source equivilant of the program on there (that might be the same feature for feature or even offer more for what they use but for free). Then they might question why even buy a Windows PC is they can get all this for free. And if they do choose to switch to Linux (however it happens), won't it be great if all the apps they used in Windows (open sourced wise) are the same in Linux? Surely it's better then tossing them into a new environment and having them get discouraged that they can't play their music files and wind up going back to Windows.

Any program that gets people to stop using whatever program Microsoft puts in their OS to maintain their dominant market share is a boon. Heck even though IE is still dominant, Firefox took a nice chunk out. So now web developers for companies have to be more conscentious about coding a website that works in both browsers. And hell even if we don't get people switching at least we'll have access to more developers. Developers who might be only on Windows PCs that see this cool open source program and want to contribute.

And those benefits, more developers and hopefully more open standards would make it back to Linux. Just imagine if Firefox never became dominant and IE was THE browser. Can you imagine the hell we'd go through on a Linux box surfing webpages that were coded horribly soley for say IE6's rendering engine. Any browser that would be developed would have to follow IE's path since we can't use IE6 of course.

The same applies for other things like ODT and DOC. If people have OpenOffice on Windows it gives them another choice. Otherwise everyone would be using Office 2007 saving everything in docx format much like it happens most of the time now (most people don't know how to change the default to doc). Where does that leave Linux users? We'd have to work on figuring out how to open docx file extensions properly. Which also takes time that could be used elsewhere And countries around the world wouldn't be debating on which format to use, since there's only one mainstream available one. Whatever Microsoft wants us to use.

[snakeeyes]

If most of the open source apps do get ported over then it will make Linux less unique cause people will think Linux only uses stuff already available for Windows. Remember one thing that most people r not like us, they don't do research at all, no one will bother about Linux just cause they have got used to Linux software on windows. Average people don't care what OS they run unless it offers them good apps. If people can use the best linux stuff on windows then for them there is no need to switch.

[gletob]

only one problem KDE 4 spits out more errors than windows the two together...
SHUDDERS:frown:

[Incense]

If most of the open source apps do get ported over then it will make Linux less unique cause people will think Linux only uses stuff already available for Windows. Remember one thing that most people r not like us, they don't do research at all, no one will bother about Linux just cause they have got used to Linux software on windows. Average people don't care what OS they run unless it offers them good apps. If people can use the best linux stuff on windows then for them there is no need to switch.

That may be, but how many people do you know switched to linux because of the apps? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's not a valid reason. In fact I miss my linux apps on the other systems. All in all though, I think most people have other reasons for using linux. Familiar apps would just make the switch easier.

[snakeeyes]

That may be, but how many people do you know switched to linux because of the apps? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's not a valid reason. In fact I miss my linux apps on the other systems. All in all though, I think most people have other reasons for using linux. Familiar apps would just make the switch easier.
Linux does have some good apps though, not all of them r bad. Amarok is awesome. I really don't know how it will make the switch easier cause using an application of Linux isn't really difficult is it? The only thing difficult about Linux is using Linux, using an application in any system is easy. It will just make Linux less unique and believe me many people won't give any credit to Linux software developers at all, most of the people who download it won't even know its linux developers who made that software.

[samwyse]

Look at Firefox. Although it was originally for Windows, it's been ported to several OS'es.

Firefox (or Phoenix as it was called first) was cross-platform from the start, a "rewrite" of the Mozilla browser that was also cross-platform: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/releases/0.1.html

The earliest version I tried was 0.5 (on Linux).

[TBOL3]

I actually think this is a good thing for linux. Not everyone in the world has to run linux, and this just demonstrates the power that OSS can have. I would have never switched to linux if I didn´t see OSS for windows (and liked what I saw).

[Depressed Man]

Exactly, I believe people should use whatever they want, whatever they feel comfortable with. If you have trouble learning Linux and can't afford the time to learn it use Windows or OSX. Likewise there should be choices in applications.

If those choices in applications however help out the open source community then that's even better. :)

[DrMega]

What a bizarre idea. KDE looks not unlike Windows to me as it is, especially since M$ pinched some ideas from Linux and added optional "power tools" like a desktop switcher.

Also what will happen if MS like it, copy it, then try to patent it?

[Incense]

Linux does have some good apps though, not all of them r bad. Amarok is awesome. I really don't know how it will make the switch easier cause using an application of Linux isn't really difficult is it? The only thing difficult about Linux is using Linux, using an application in any system is easy. It will just make Linux less unique and believe me many people won't give any credit to Linux software developers at all, most of the people who download it won't even know its linux developers who made that software.

I wasn't putting down linux apps at all. It's really more about the learning curve. Learning a new OS is not easy for some people, and the less you have to learn the better. Switching from Windows to Ubuntu means having your menu on the top, two tasks bars, and an entire array of differences that can feel a bit overwhelming. It's going to soften the blow quite a bit if they are already used to using firefox for browsing, thunderbird for email, and amarok for their music and ipod syncing. Less to learn right? So now they are in a more secure and stable environment, using applications that are familiar and suddenly, this whole linux thing doesn't seem so bad and overwhelming.

If you want another example, how many people have switched to OSX in the past few years simply because they bought an iPod and used it with iTunes in windows. That experience suddenly sparked an interest in what else apple was doing. Now apple is selling more notebooks then any other company. Before the iPod people had said the Apple was dead. No I'm not saying that Amarok and Koffice are going to bring as many people to linux like the iPod did for Apple,but I don't think it will hurt.

[smartboyathome]

What a bizarre idea. KDE looks not unlike Windows to me as it is, especially since M$ pinched some ideas from Linux and added optional "power tools" like a desktop switcher.

Also what will happen if MS like it, copy it, then try to patent it?

We would hope that there are already patents out there for it from one of the many patent-holding companies for Linux.

[definition]

It's a great thing!

There must, there simply must be more people using linux because of the success of products like firefox. I think that speaks for itself.

[Lord Illidan]

Indeed it does. For many people, their exposure to open source begins with using apps like Firefox and Open Office. Occasionally, they also use gcc, for instance in Dev C++ (That's what I did anyway). Thus, the transition becomes easier. Now, if more apps, like Amarok or K3B became available..well, go for it, I say. Why not.


The thing is that Linux software developers shouldn't blindly port stuff to Windows or OS X when Apple or Microsoft don't give a damn about Linux.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

[maniacmusician]

Indeed it does. For many people, their exposure to open source begins with using apps like Firefox and Open Office. Occasionally, they also use gcc, for instance in Dev C++ (That's what I did anyway). Thus, the transition becomes easier. Now, if more apps, like Amarok or K3B became available..well, go for it, I say. Why not.


Two wrongs don't make a right.
That's a great way to put it.

[mrgnash]

One more reason to avoid KDE. As if another one was needed.

And for those that think that this will be some sort of gateway drug to the world of FOSS, think again; it didn't work with Firefox and it won't work here.

[DeadSuperHero]

One more reason to avoid KDE. As if another one was needed.

And for those that think that this will be some sort of gateway drug to the world of FOSS, think again; it didn't work with Firefox and it won't work here.

That's a rather depressing view on it.
And on the contrary, Firefox has a huge community of people using it. Does it mean they're all using FOSS apps? No, because people with your exact view are too pessimistic to port anything.

Here's the average Windows user, trying out Firefox.
"Ooh, a web browser...hey! This FOSS stuff is kinda neat! I wonder what else there is!'
*goes and looks*
"Oh...it's on a different OS...gee...and they haven't ported much to Windows yet....and I kind of like XP..."

Just because someone doesn't want to switch platforms doesn't mean they can't support Open Source.

[GSF1200S]

One more reason to avoid KDE. As if another one was needed.

And for those that think that this will be some sort of gateway drug to the world of FOSS, think again; it didn't work with Firefox and it won't work here.

Unlike this guy, I like KDE alot, but thats just me. He brings up a good point about Firefox. Many of my friends ONLY use Firefox and talk nothing but good things about it. Of ALL the people I asked, NOT ONE of them could tell me:

A) That it was OSS, or what OSS is..
b) What Linux is

Its a pipe dream- Let me ask you this.. What if a multibillonaire one day found out about Linux, and decided that he loved it. He decides to found a team to make the most BA game- like a mix between BF2 and CNC3, and create it exclusively for Linux. NOONE else on another platform can play it. Then he launches a MASSIVE ad campaign to sell the game, and donates all profits, minus development and advertisement costs to a Linux company or foundation. Would people decide to quickly install Ubuntu so they could play it? Yes.

If he had made a Linux AND Windows version, it would give no more incentive to try Linux.

I understand where you all are going and I hope you are right- but I fear that your OWN feelings towards OSS, and the LOGIC you use when approaching OSS yourself is leading you to over-estimate the intelligence, curiousity, and reason of the average Joe Windows user.

[GSF1200S]

That's a rather depressing view on it.
And on the contrary, Firefox has a huge community of people using it. Does it mean they're all using FOSS apps? No, because people with your exact view are too pessimistic to port anything.

Here's the average Windows user, trying out Firefox.
"Ooh, a web browser...hey! This FOSS stuff is kinda neat! I wonder what else there is!'
*goes and looks*
"Oh...it's on a different OS...gee...and they haven't ported much to Windows yet....and I kind of like XP..."

Just because someone doesn't want to switch platforms doesn't mean they can't support Open Source.

Perhaps it is a depressing view and perhaps they shouldnt be restrained from OSS. None of us are saying it SHOULDNT be done, we're simply saying that its not good for GNU/Linux to have some of its best applications ported, as the question for this thread asked...

[p_quarles]

One more reason to avoid KDE. As if another one was needed.

And for those that think that this will be some sort of gateway drug to the world of FOSS, think again; it didn't work with Firefox and it won't work here.
By that logic, you should be avoiding all projects that have ported to Windows:

GIMP
AbiWord
Blender
Inkscape
OpenOffice.org
Miro
Scribus
SciTE
Amaya
Lame
MPlayer
VLC
Wireshark I'm sure there are others, but I got tired of looking.

[GSF1200S]

By that logic, you should be avoiding all projects that have ported to Windows:

GIMP
AbiWord
Blender
Inkscape
OpenOffice.org
Miro
Scribus
SciTE
Amaya
Lame
MPlayer
VLC
Wireshark I'm sure there are others, but I got tired of looking.

I believe his words were taken a little more serious than he intended. NOONE is saying it shouldnt be done or that its wrong to do; were just answering the question of the thread. To take it in a should or shouldnt mentality is really grounds for a different thread. This one simply asks the question whether exclusivity is better for GNU/Linux, or whether non-exclusivity is... I believe the answer is the former, but thats not to say that I feel porting should NOT be done. That depends on the makers of the app.

[Linuxratty]

It's a great thing!

There must, there simply must be more people using linux because of the success of products like firefox. I think that speaks for itself.

For me,Firefox was the ''gateway" app to Linux...I used it on XP and I loved it...
And the longer I used FF the more i thought about Linux maybe being just as good...Then I started researching Linux and ...Well...You can guess the rest.):P

[Darkhack]

There isn't a nice way to say this, so I'll just be blunt. Anyone who is against software portability completely fails at understanding what it means for software to be free. It's about sharing, freedom, and helping others; not being a raging fanboy/cheerleader for Linux; which isn't the only free operating system out there by the way. I sometimes even get a stomach ache when I see people act like "Linux == FOSS" when in fact there are other alternatives. People advocate having lots of options as being an advantage to Linux, but what if I want a different kernel? All FOSS should be advocated and we should try to bring it to as many people as possible. Plus having FOSS on proprietary systems will make it easier to convert, should they choose to do so (but I respect their freedom not to).

[GSF1200S]

There isn't a nice way to say this, so I'll just be blunt. Anyone who is against software portability completely fails at understanding what it means for software to be free. It's about sharing, freedom, and helping others; not being a raging fanboy/cheerleader for Linux; which isn't the only free operating system out there by the way. I sometimes even get a stomach ache when I see people act like "Linux == FOSS" when in fact there are other alternatives. People advocate having lots of options as being an advantage to Linux, but what if I want a different kernel? All FOSS should be advocated and we should try to bring it to as many people as possible. Plus having FOSS on proprietary systems will make it easier to convert, should they choose to do so (but I respect their freedom not to).

For the last time, we, or at least I, are/am not AGAINST it.

If we were, wede be agreeing with a thread titled: "We should keep apps like KDE4 apps for Linux only!" At which point id be disagreeing.

Youre right- there are other alternatives to OSS and they are just as valid. But once again, and for the last time, I dont think it will benefit and in fact feel that this particular action will hurt Linux, even if it is morally justified. Its just an opinion- dont make me out to be Satan.

[Darkhack]

I dont think it will benefit and in fact feel that this particular action will hurt Linux

There are still tons of reasons to choose Linux over Windows, even with KDE applications being ported, as well as a fine collection of already ported GTK+ apps. Security, stability, performance, cost, and support. That's five reasons why the "loss of motivation" argument is a fallacy here.

I see this as a win for the FOSS community. Firstly, it will make the transition easier, should someone choose to move to a non-Windows platform. Secondly, it will help encourage the use of free formats. I'm sick of seeing .doc files in my email and .wmv videos online. If more FOSS applications are running on Windows and Mac it encourages content developers to use open formats which make it easier for everyone. Thirdly, it increases competition. Firefox, for example, put pressure on Microsoft to improve Internet Explorer and not sit on their butts.

note: you may notice that throughout my posts I sometimes use "free software" and other times "open source". Usually I just use "FOSS" (Free, Open Source, Software - a combination of the terms) because I support both movements and I'm not a Nazi about the naming scheme like some people are. I support both practical advantages and freedom.

[Lord Illidan]

One more reason to avoid KDE. As if another one was needed.

And for those that think that this will be some sort of gateway drug to the world of FOSS, think again; it didn't work with Firefox and it won't work here.

It didn't work with Firefox? That's rich, when you see how many people use Firefox on a daily basis. Sure, it doesn't mean that everyone who uses FF will go straight to Linux, but it's getting their foot in the door. Same goes for VLC for instance. When I made my shift to Linux, I was reassured that I would find good, solid applications to work on. If I had never used these apps before, I would be more apprehensive.


Unlike this guy, I like KDE alot, but thats just me. He brings up a good point about Firefox. Many of my friends ONLY use Firefox and talk nothing but good things about it. Of ALL the people I asked, NOT ONE of them could tell me:

A) That it was OSS, or what OSS is..
b) What Linux is

Its a pipe dream- Let me ask you this.. What if a multibillonaire one day found out about Linux, and decided that he loved it. He decides to found a team to make the most BA game- like a mix between BF2 and CNC3, and create it exclusively for Linux. NOONE else on another platform can play it. Then he launches a MASSIVE ad campaign to sell the game, and donates all profits, minus development and advertisement costs to a Linux company or foundation. Would people decide to quickly install Ubuntu so they could play it? Yes.

If he had made a Linux AND Windows version, it would give no more incentive to try Linux.

I understand where you all are going and I hope you are right- but I fear that your OWN feelings towards OSS, and the LOGIC you use when approaching OSS yourself is leading you to over-estimate the intelligence, curiousity, and reason of the average Joe Windows user.

Sure, some people don't know what OSS is. A guy came up today and told me, hey, that VLC app is pretty cool, it's made by those Linux folks? He was equating OSS with Linux, quite understandable, really, when you consider that Linux is the flagship of OSS. It's quite easy to set the guy on the right track, as well.

As regards your gaming argument, that's a fallacy, I'm afraid. I doubt a windows user would switch bases over 1 game when they have so many games. And as good as KDE 4 is, I doubt it's THAT good.

Also, we're getting off track here. The "mission", if you can call it that, is NOT to make Linux the default desktop on every computer in the world. We'd like that more users use free software and are aware of the issues regarding it. By being smug that our cool apps are locked to one OS, like say, the Mac, or the PC, we aren't improving anything.

[hellion0]

As long as developers keep porting over good programs and are swift to address bugs and such, I think porting OSS over to Windows/Mac systems is a great idea.

Think about it. I want to do graphics stuff, but can't afford the exorbitant price for Photoshop. I could either pirate it, or go with an OSS alternative like The GIMP or Inkscape. You could pirate the "better" program, but you're also potentially opening up your system to any number of backdoors and trojans, plus opening yourself up to legal troubles. I'll go with the OSS alternative any day, and if it suits my needs, I'll look for more of this wonderful open source software for my needs. When I get tired of having to constantly watch what I do on Internet Explorer, what do you know, an alternative exists in Firefox. Then I get tired of WMP or iTunes/Quicktime and their kludginess, and I find VLC. That makes me want to look for more alternatives that are safer for my system, more versatile, or easier to use. Why run several different IM programs when I can run Gaim/Pidgin? Why use a shareware "standard" like mIRC for chatting on IRC when I can use something like XChat or irssi or the aforementioned Gaim/Pidgin?

Eventually the user will realize how well OSS can work, and might make the ultimate jump over to Linux. It actually happened in my case, and it's happened that way for others. Still, for a lot of users, they'll stick with their proprietary OS and use open source software where possible. And either way, the user will start sharing their praises of the software with other disgruntled users, and some of those users may switch to the software, then some of those might take the leap and switch to Linux. Either way, the cycle continues and the message spreads.

In the end, either outcome is acceptable, for the message spreads either way.

[super breadfish]

I don't see how this anything but good news.

Claiming it will stop new people using Linux is crap. I don't know of anyone that converted to Linux just to run Amarok and KMail. Most newbies want Linux dependant stuff like Compiz, or stability/security benefits.

And it kicks of curiosity, with Windows users running KDE programs at least a few of them are going to think "Hey what's this KDE thing" and discover Linux.

[Incense]

Found this on dot.kde this morning. A really nice blog post including screen shots of KDE on windows. I didn't know that Konqueror was being ported! That's pretty sweet! It's a good read, or you can just browse the pics.

http://mrcopilot.blogspot.com/2008/01/can-kde-save-dying-windows-platform.html

[fatality_uk]

Isn't this like buying a 15 year old rusty Trabant, painting it Ferrari red, adding a rear wing, a front splitter, bucket race seats, 5 spoke Ferrari alloys, a paddle shift steering wheel and Ferrari badges? IT'S STILL A TRABANT! And underneath the lushness that is KDE it will STILL be Windows.

And you know that when Windows users still get a virus - Oh it must be that KDE crap or they get a B.S.O.D. oh Linux rubbish. While I like the idea of opening up the desktop to new possibilities, I can see there being problems with this from the outset. KDE 4 on Linux is still buggy! Combine those bugs with Windows, ouch!!

[justin whitaker]

Isn't this like buying a 15 year old rusty Trabant, painting it Ferrari red, adding a rear wing, a front splitter, bucket race seats, 5 spoke Ferrari alloys, a paddle shift steering wheel and Ferrari badges? IT'S STILL A TRABANT! And underneath the lushness that is KDE it will STILL be Windows.

And you know that when Windows users still get a virus - Oh it must be that KDE crap or they get a B.S.O.D. oh Linux rubbish. While I like the idea of opening up the desktop to new possibilities, I can see there being problems with this from the outset. KDE 4 on Linux is still buggy! Combine those bugs with Windows, ouch!!

The flip side of it is that windows users submit bugs too, and even help out on the coding...there is this broad fallacy that there are only boneheaded users over on the Windows platform, when the fact is there are also a lot of good developers too.

Open Source is a method of development, not specific to any platform. Maybe bringing in Windows users and developers on the KDE bandwagon will help get to 4.1 faster.

[Incense]

The flip side of it is that windows users submit bugs too, and even help out on the coding...there is this broad fallacy that there are only boneheaded users over on the Windows platform, when the fact is there are also a lot of good developers too.

Open Source is a method of development, not specific to any platform. Maybe bringing in Windows users and developers on the KDE bandwagon will help get to 4.1 faster.

That is an excellent point, and one that I had not considered before.

[the_darkside_986]

I want to install the full KDE environment on Windows XP, plasma and all of it. It would be much easier than hopelessly trying to compile it in cygwin or trying to use the awful mess of the default explorer.exe.

Anyway, it would be good to get developers to use KDE-centric libs instead of .NET or Win32, but my only concern would be the developers carelessly introducing Windows-specific code into their programs, such as the wrong slash marks "\" instead of "/". Maybe KDE4 should have some sort of POSIX library abstraction on the Windows version so that any Win32 specific garbage can be avoided.

[Depressed Man]

Don't think the full KDE environment is going go to Windows. But nice idea about the Windows coding. Haha that / and \ difference still gets me today.