OpenSUSE 10.3 is a masterpiece

[travismh]

I've been using Ubuntu 7.04 as far as I can remember; though I could never replace it with Windows XP for work, just because it didn't integrate as well as I wanted it to with other MS services.

I have been using openSUSE for the past few weeks, and it's perfect for me, especially for someone who is searching for a polished distro (it's office suite is better than any Linux distro I have tried in the past).

The SLED menu is incredible, and as a dedicated GNOME user, Novell should be applauded for its improvements with this DE.

P.S. Don't care too much about the whole Novell and MS affair, and who should? After all, Linux is about performance and productivity, not a business acquisition or merger-- ergo, if the distribution is free and productive than it should not be harassed, when it may set an example for an enterprise. To be honest, this doesn't bother me as much as Shuttleworth (is that his real name?) spending 20 mill to become an astronaut for a day.

[Kingsley]

Hey. Can you go into detail about their office suite? I thought OpenSuse comes with OO.o just like every other Linux distribution.

[travismh]

Nope, that's a common misconception about SUSE's OOo. For example, it has a Web/ Writer application which validates HTML and has more web features that are not found on a OOo's basic word processor. Also, Evolution works seamlessly with OOo, when I compared it with Ubuntu; I had to run a few tests in order for me to use SUSE at work-- .doc files from OOo/ from Evolution to Outlook or MS Word are formatted the way it should be,

With OOo on fiesty fawn I had problems with format, when exchanging files to MS and not to mention the crashes which occurred all the time. Not once has a crash occurred in SUSE's OOo for myself.

[Lster]

Yeah. Got to admit I was very impressed with SuSe 10.3 when I tried it. Everything was easy enough to yet working and it seemed fast and stable. Nice graphics, does everything I want (and tried) and no major issues. The only thing I found annoying was the install time... :mad:

[Incense]

I really like Novell's OpenOffice. It's one of the reasons I use OpenSUSE.

[snakeeyes]

OpenSUSE is the best Linux distro ever, simple as that. It is the true replacement for Windows or Mac OS X. Its openoffice is awesome no doubt but have u noticed how much more stable it is than Gutsy? Also on Ubuntu bugs take ages to get fixed, opensuse I have never encountered bugs on it. Also opensuse uses the latest stuff all the time and the system still remains stable, one of my ubuntu installs crashed after a simple update once.

I completely agree with the original poster, if u want a really good, stable distro then use opensuse, its the only distro u can spend time actually using.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Yeh but the MS deal is a big factor on why I avoid it...

[snakeeyes]

Yeh but the MS deal is a big factor on why I avoid it...
Seriously all these Linux users think Novell made a deal with the devil or something, I read about the deal Novell told Microsoft clearly that Linux does break its patents or whatever. Infact its because of this deal that opensuse' openoffice is so much better. The point is that for a regular user nothing beats opensuse, when I use ubuntu I have to deal with bugs and problems so I spend more time configuring it then using it and I shouldn't have to do that. OpenSuSE's developers r awesome, if u use an application on Ubuntu and then on opensuse u will notice how much better that applications works on opensuse than ubuntu.

I remember when I used Kubuntu the kicker panel would crash atleast twice a week where as on suse it never happenned. A regular user shouldn't have to deal with bugs and problems, the developers should. Thats why opensuse rocks.

[VCSkier]

For me, OpenSUSE's package management is a huge drawback. I found it slow, awkward,and buggy. I occassionally use OpenSUSE's KDE for audio related tasks that are difficult or impossible for Gnome native applications, but find myself frustrated after attempting updates or trying to install programs that aren't in the official repositories. Simply adding 3rd party repositories seems to be tedious.

My perspective may not be completely unbiased, because I've been a very happy Ubuntu user for quite a while, and I'm very accustomed to it, but after trying to give OpenSUSE 10.3 a fair chance, Ubuntu will remain my primary distribution for the foreseeable future.

[snakeeyes]

Package management has been improved a lot in 10.3 compared to 10.2 and opensuse 11.0 will be even better. Still u have to admit that for a rpm distro, its package management is awesome.

[Incense]

If you don't like YaST for package management, then I would recommended installing the SMART PM. It's right on par with synaptic in both speed and usability.

[snakeeyes]

Hey r opensuse's repositories currently down?

[Incense]

Hey r opensuse's repositories currently down?

Yes they are. No word yet as to when they are going to come back up.

[RedDwarf]

Use the mirrors directly
http://dev-loki.blogspot.com/2008/01/hardware-issues-on-opensuseorg.html#comments

[Incense]

Use the mirrors directly
http://dev-loki.blogspot.com/2008/01/hardware-issues-on-opensuseorg.html#comments

I forgot about the mirrors! Thanks for the link.

[Incense]

In case anyone is still wondering, the repos seem to be back up.

[Wiebelhaus]

Huh , I might give this another look , I Haven't tried it since 10 I think and I wanted to kill Yum with fire.

[Demz]

Hey r opensuse's repositories currently down?
M$$ patented the repo's an bought them down :D

[snakeeyes]

In case anyone is still wondering, the repos seem to be back up.
No they aren't completely back up yet. I just checked.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Seriously all these Linux users think Novell made a deal with the devil or something, I read about the deal Novell told Microsoft clearly that Linux does break its patents or whatever. Infact its because of this deal that opensuse' openoffice is so much better. The point is that for a regular user nothing beats opensuse, when I use ubuntu I have to deal with bugs and problems so I spend more time configuring it then using it and I shouldn't have to do that. OpenSuSE's developers r awesome, if u use an application on Ubuntu and then on opensuse u will notice how much better that applications works on opensuse than ubuntu.

I remember when I used Kubuntu the kicker panel would crash atleast twice a week where as on suse it never happenned. A regular user shouldn't have to deal with bugs and problems, the developers should. Thats why opensuse rocks.

but microsofts paten claims are nonsense, and novell was foolish to bow to them.
have fun with microsuse, as once it becomes like SCO you will come crawling back to us.

[snakeeyes]

but microsofts paten claims are nonsense, and novell was foolish to bow to them.
have fun with microsuse, as once it becomes like SCO you will come crawling back to us.
Novell didn't bow to them, they never accepted that Microsoft had patent claims over Linux.

Come crawling back to Ubuntu? Never, I will start using any other distro but not Ubuntu. I want to use my system without bugs and all Ubuntu is a bug filled Linux system.

[tech0007]

I tried Opensuse but it was a pain in the *!#&. I can't make anything work on it. Gutsy is the best ubuntu version ever.

[snakeeyes]

I tried Opensuse but it was a pain in the *!#&. I can't make anything work on it. Gutsy is the best ubuntu version ever.
What could u not get to work on it? Maybe I can help.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Novell didn't bow to them, they never accepted that Microsoft had patent claims over Linux.

Come crawling back to Ubuntu? Never, I will start using any other distro but not Ubuntu. I want to use my system without bugs and all Ubuntu is a bug filled Linux system.

hah, then why the go for the deal in the first place huh?
enjoy your sellout OS, once its loaded with spyware and riddled with Microsoft nonsense you will see...

[RebounD11]

Why I use SuSE and agree with the thread title:

I'm currently living in a college dormitory, and thus have internet connection through a proxy server (there's one in each dorm), however we also have a secondary connection (way slower but unrestricted) in case the first one crashes. I can use the proxy connection with every OS but the problem is when I want to switch to the other one.

The problem is this way: the proxy server has also the role of gateway DHCP server, as well as connecting the campus together. When using the alternate connection the gateway is another computer (with a different IP of that of the proxy server), but the role of DHCP server and connection with the rest of the campus still falls on the proxy. So what I have to do is set the gateway to the new address and reroute local connections through the proxy. The first part can be done in Windows but th second part doesn't work all the time there (I know this from experience with some of my friends computers... some can connect to the LAN some will have to settle with the Internet), in OpenSuSE 10.3 I can do them both and even save a profile which I click and apply everytime necessary, in Ubuntu (or any other distro than OpenSuSE and Fedora 8, which behaves like Windows in this situation) if I set a different gateway it assumes it's also the DHCP server... I managed to get sth working with Mint but I kind of have to reinstall my Netowrk Manager each time I want to switch back.

Hope someone understands what I was trying to say... anyway OpenSuSE rules... can't wait for number 11 (my lucky number :D even got an MVP award while I was playing basketball with that number).

[snakeeyes]

They went for the deal cause it would improve relations between the company, it would allow for more compatibility and Microsoft would also help advertise Novell products. You should go ahead and find out more about the deal.

Microsoft is not allowed to make any changes to opensuse and they will never be able to put any spyware on it cause its open source, it would be detected immediately. Since opensuse also uses the linux kernel they will be stable as well.

I can't wait for opensuse 11 either. The thing is simple, opensuse doesn't break with a tiny update, it is a lot more stable than other linux distro, less bugs, we don't have to worry about our applications crashing. Opensuse has excellent documentation as well. Its an excellent operating system, if u had tried u would know that.

Also Novell isn't the only company that made deals with Microsoft either.

[Incense]

but microsofts paten claims are nonsense, and novell was foolish to bow to them.
have fun with microsuse, as once it becomes like SCO you will come crawling back to us.

Wasn't Novell the company who finally took down SCO?

[icechen1]

I just tried openSUSE(dual boot mint and opensuse) and i found that openSUSE have more up-to-date packages than Ubuntu.However,the popups from the default package manager is really annoying.Compiz is very hard to set up,i haven't made it. :/ ?Overall,it is a great distro.

[kinematic]

OpenSUSE is the best Linux distro ever, simple as that. It is the true replacement for Windows or Mac OS X.

You're trying to make that sound like a fact but it's nothing more than your opinion. To me it's NOT the best distro ever or a true replacement for Windows or MAC. We each have our own preferences ;-)

[snakeeyes]

I just tried openSUSE(dual boot mint and opensuse) and i found that openSUSE have more up-to-date packages than Ubuntu.However,the popups from the default package manager is really annoying.Compiz is very hard to set up,i haven't made it. :/ ?Overall,it is a great distro.
Well Yast is getting better with each release and by SUSE 11 I am sure it will be awesome. Just use one click install for compiz then use the fusion icon to set it up. Once u have set up opensuse then check out how much improved its applications r compared to most other distros.

[snakeeyes]

You're trying to make that sound like a fact but it's nothing more than your opinion. To me it's NOT the best distro ever or a true replacement for Windows or MAC. We each have our own preferences ;-)
I thought it was pretty obvious from what I said that it would be my opinion alone, anyone who understands english should understand that whenever a person talks like that its pretty obvious its just their opinion.

In fact it is one of the distros that can actually replace Windows or OS X. Its not buggy, Ubuntu has more bugs in it then features. Seriously go check out some of the bug reports reported back from 2006 that still haven't been fixed. I don't like Ubuntu mainly because of how unstable software on it is.

[icechen1]

Well Yast is getting better with each release and by SUSE 11 I am sure it will be awesome. Just use one click install for compiz then use the fusion icon to set it up. Once u have set up opensuse then check out how much improved its applications r compared to most other distros.

It uses XGL(which ,unlike ubuntu, is kinda slow...(i am using intel card)).Ubuntu uses AIGLX which is faster.I haven't found a way to use compiz on ALGLX in opensuse.

[RebounD11]

Here's some useful links for setting up CF with OpenSuSE on your videocard:

For CF:
http://en.opensuse.org/Compiz_fusion

For AIGLX:
http://en.opensuse.org/AIGLX

And in case of slow Intel graphics this is what it says here:
http://en.opensuse.org/Compiz_fusion#Intel_users_if_things_run_very_slow



Intel users if things run very slow

* Add this line to the Device section of your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file: « Option "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" "true" » Then restart your X server. (Without <<>>)


Hope this helps you see OpenSuSE better :D

[zipperback]

I have been using openSUSE for the past few weeks, and it's perfect for me, especially for someone who is searching for a polished distro (it's office suite is better than any Linux distro I have tried in the past).

It's office suite is the same as Ubuntu. It's Open Office 2.3



The SLED menu is incredible, and as a dedicated GNOME user, Novell should be applauded for its improvements with this DE.

the SLED menu isn't anything new. It's been around for a while now.



P.S. Don't care too much about the whole Novell and MS affair, and who should? After all, Linux is about performance and productivity, not a business acquisition or merger-- ergo, if the distribution is free and productive than it should not be harassed, when it may set an example for an enterprise. To be honest, this doesn't bother me as much as Shuttleworth (is that his real name?) spending 20 mill to become an astronaut for a day.

You certainly sound like a Novell sales person to me.

I did in fact try OpenSuse and found that it was nothing ground breaking, and actually had found that it ran considerably slower on my system than Ubuntu running similar services.

The whole issue with Novell and MS affair is a something that I do in fact take into consideration. As a matter of personal ethics, I refuse to have anything to do with Novell while they are still in bed with Microsoft.

Linux is about Freedom. Micrsoft is about Microsoft. Need I remind you of SCO and similar incidents in the past?

- zipperback
:popcorn:

[kiisu]

Anyone who has installed Suse after Ubuntu:

I'm still an early learner in Linux, after 2 months sorting out Ubuntu, I'd like to try another OS without losing the awesome one that I finally got running.

Can I trust the Suse installer to partition properly for me, so I don't lose Ubuntu,?

[zipperback]

Novell didn't bow to them, they never accepted that Microsoft had patent claims over Linux.

Come crawling back to Ubuntu? Never, I will start using any other distro but not Ubuntu. I want to use my system without bugs and all Ubuntu is a bug filled Linux system.

FUD.

[snakeeyes]

The office suite is openoffice 2.3 but they have added some microsoft proprietary code in them to make it better just go ahead and read about it on the net, I will post a link if u don't find it.

The SLED men isn't anything new no doubt but novell was one of the first to use it.

If opensuse runs slower on your computer then no one can help u if your computer is out of date cause it runs excellent on mine.

Another thing Microsoft offerred Novell I think around $300 million dollars to accept the deal, and if u read about it further Novell clearly states they didn't accept Linux breaks Microsoft patents.

What about Linspire and Xandros, don't they have deals with Microsoft as well?

Plus I agree with the other person who said users shouldn't care about some deal, the distro is one of the most polished and stable systems around. Its one of the few Linux distros I have used whose programs r usually bug free cause when I first tried Ubuntu it worked ok, a few weeks later programs would freeze, crash, ecspecially a lot on 7.10.


Another thing has anyone noticed how many bugs there r in Ubuntu and don't even get me started on kubuntu.

Let me point out some of the bugs, first one laptop load cycles, an average user just turns on laptop mode without knowing about this bug and his hard disk gets ruined.

Gutsy's battery life is horrible compared to other distros.

In gstreamer properties whenever I would try and configure my microphone it would crash, what the hell, turns out it was a known bug still not fixed.

If u use Kaffeine then the movie player would freeze if u quickly stopped a movie and restarted it, and while closing the program it would crash sometimes.

In konqueror and d3lphin the icons were never drawn properly and I did a bug report on it which is confirmed but still no talk about fixing it. Dolphin had problems with copy pasting files. If u deleted a file in KUbuntu then right click on the trash and the option to empty it would be grayed out so u would have to manually empty it.

In Kubuntu the kicker panel would crash a minimum of twice a week.

Openoffice would crash once a week.

A normal user who comes from windows or os x shouldn't have to live with these bugs, opensuse on the other hand is so much better. I haven't encountered a single bug so far, and there were 2 which I did and an update was there in 4 days for it. These r just some of the few problems in Ubuntu, I can list a lot more.

[kvonb]

-

[snakeeyes]

I tried OpenSuSe a few days ago, after getting really angry at the usual "updates hosed my system" traditional Kubuntu problem :(

First I was cheesed off because I thought I was downloading the LiveCD of OpenSuSe, turned out it wasn't....grr!

So I installed it on a spare hard disk. It was OK, but for some reason I can't seem to live with RPM based distros.

And this thing about the deal with Microsoft, it is akin to ignoring the "guilt by association" factor. Would you use a Linux distribution if it had links with a person or company that you despise? If it paid money to a child molesting group, would you still ignore that? Yes that seems a bit wild, but it's the same thing, it comes down to your conscience.

I felt dirty ;)

Then I tried PCLinuxOS (minime 2008 liveCD), now that was a nice ride! My wireless was up and running after 2 mouse clicks, and not a terminal in sight!!!! Two lousy mouse clicks to enable ndiswrapper for my Broadcom 4312v2, and that was including WAP2 support! I was mega-impressed.

Plus no reboot needed, on the liveCD! I also installed the nvidia driver without a reboot! Mamamia!

Extremely well polished too, good looking screens everywhere, from first boot to shutdown.

I would be using it right now if not for 2 reasons: my quicklaunch buttons (volume/mute etc') weren't working, and it is RPM based :( I have no idea of their affiliations either, anyone have any more info?

I am a Kubuntu 7.10 user, and I know how much of a pain it can be, believe me, I've just spent the last 3 days trying to get the install/update process in the right order to avoid the dreaded "update-initramfs" problem. Which means: "sorry, we gave you an update that completely stuffs your install up, please re-install now, have a nice day!".

For now though, my laptop is stable with Kubuntu 7.10, as long as I reject the temptation to click on the demonic "updates available - click here to sell your soul" button, I will be OK.
Begone satan, do not tempt me further :lolflag:
First thing is first u can't compare Novell with a child molesting group. Thats tooooooo extreme. Why did u feel dirty, the company that u despise is a super power of the software world, what they say goes and having good relations with might is always a good choice.

Anyone heard of silver light? Novell is working with Microsoft to port silver light to Linux web browsers otherwise we would be stuck in the past. Novell has made so many improvement to desktop environments like kde and gnome.

If couldn't live with a rpm distro that is your fault, not opensuse's. I can't believe u want to stay with the buggy Ubuntu family of distros even after the problems u described u have had. Seriously Ubuntu's software is more unstable than a trojan infected windows install. Did u read all the bugs I have listed above, seriously is it worth wasting time on an OS like that?

[kvonb]

-

[snakeeyes]

You do realise that's exactly what most of Europe, England, and the US said about Hitler to start with don't you?

Where did that end up?

And no, what Microsoft says, does NOT go for me :).
How can u compare Hitler with a company?

[svasanth]

ALT linux is rpm based and it uses apt-get to manage rpms and more stable than SUSE.

[snakeeyes]

which distro is that?

[frankos44]

Ok, so I took a look out of curiosity. Ive had a play and this is what I found:

The Negatives

1) Firstly many of the programs are of a lesser revision level than Ubuntu despite reporting it was up to date. The most annoying one was Evolution. The "Backup Settings" and "Restore Settings" was missing in the "File"menu" preventing me from setting up Evolution easily. Gimp and Firefox where not the latest revision either.

2) The Menu button was extremely annoying. I was unable to find anything easily. After some fiddling I removed it and installed the far more practical "Menu Bar" we are all familiar with.

3) The apt-get in Ubuntu is fantastic, I can do things in a flash from the shell, however Suse does not use this.

4) I tried to install LAMP so I could use it as a software development machine and was unsuccessful.

5) I could see no difference in openoffice, not that I use it anyway.


Positives

1) I liked the installation routine

2) I like the "Out of the box" look


Conclusion

I think Ubuntu is a good distro and I will stay with it but It needs polishing up in places though. I think the brown naff look puts the superficial types off before they give it a chance.

Ubuntu LAMP servers just work!

[RebounD11]

As far as I can remember OpenSuSE is not included in the Novell-MS deal... besides is as free as Ubuntu, (as everyone pointed out) more stable and bug-free (although it happens that you have a stubborn update or an update that can and probably will leave you without 3d acceleration or such until the next update).

And I just remembered sth while playing around... OpenSuSE was the only distro that recognized and correctly setup my display during installation... speaking of which, it has by far the most comprehensive installer around... leaves you with little to configure afterwards even if it takes longer (I'm talking about the DVD install since I kind of dislike the Ubuntu way of installing from live CD, which OpenSuSE has on their live CD - it's to uninformative... almost like Windows, only you can do sth else while installing).

Again .. I can't wait for 11 :D

[RebounD11]

1) Firstly many of the programs are of a lesser revision level than Ubuntu despite reporting it was up to date. The most annoying one was Evolution. The "Backup Settings" and "Restore Settings" was missing in the "File"menu" preventing me from setting up Evolution easily. Gimp and Firefox where not the latest revision either.


Did you add the repos that are listed in their wiki (great wiki BTW)? I successfully update from them without breaking anything



2) The Menu button was extremely annoying. I was unable to find anything easily. After some fiddling I removed it and installed the far more practical "Menu Bar" we are all familiar with.


You are more familiar with, not all. I hate the menu bar... it takes up space on the panel... although I like the 2 panels style of Ubuntu, anyway you can make all distros look the same if you want to... it would be a pity to have them look alike out of the box.



3) The apt-get in Ubuntu is fantastic, I can do things in a flash from the shell, however Suse does not use this.


It uses Smart and Zypper which I found pretty fast. Again, you can install Synaptic and apt for RPM's in SuSE if you like it so much (package managers - each distro has it's own).



4) I tried to install LAMP so I could use it as a software development machine and was unsuccessful.


Never tried LAMP can't say anything here :D Except maybe try the wiki (en.opensuse.org) maybe it's done in another way.



5) I could see no difference in openoffice, not that I use it anyway.


Try importing a .doc and see if you still have the same formatting in Ubuntu... I don't but it was ok with OpenSuSE.

You've probably been using Ubuntu for a long time... each OS needs time to get accustomed to (that's why I started Linux dual-booting it with Windows) so give OpenSuSE a chance, that means think how it was for you when you started using Ubuntu and compare the experience with that time.

PS: Sorry for the double post... it's to long for an edit :D

[RedDwarf]

1) Firstly many of the programs are of a lesser revision level than Ubuntu despite reporting it was up to date. The most annoying one was Evolution. The "Backup Settings" and "Restore Settings" was missing in the "File"menu" preventing me from setting up Evolution easily. Gimp and Firefox where not the latest revision either.
openSUSE includes the latest stable versions at release time of packages, like any other distro. And in the Build Service you will find updates when they are released upstream. With KDE applications you can be sure that you will always find the latest version, with Gnome ones isn't so sure.
- Both Gutsy and openSUSE 10.3 were released with Evolution 2.12.0. Through updates Gutsy has 2.12.1, openSUSE 10.3 no. But through Build Service openSUSE 10.3 has 2.12.3 (the latest stable upstream version) and 2.21.4 (unstable). Still Build Service packages aren't in the "correct" place (GNOME:STABLE and GNOME:UNSTABLE), but in the home repository of a Novell employee. (that's what I mean when I say Gnome support is worse than KDE support).
- Both released with Firefox 2.0.0.6. Through updates Gutdy has 2.0.0.11 and openSUSE 2.0.0.10. But through Build Service openSUSE 10.2 has also 2.0.0.11.
- Gutsy released an unstable Gimp version, while openSUSE 10.3 released with the latest stable version. Gutsy has updated the package to a stable 2.4.2 version while openSUSE still has the same 2.2.17 stable version. But through Build Service openSUSE 10.3 also has the 2.4.2 stable version.


3) The apt-get in Ubuntu is fantastic, I can do things in a flash from the shell, however Suse does not use this.
openSUSE has zypper to do package management from the shell. But still I recommend Smart (with shell and GUI interfaces)... to both openSUSE and Ubuntu users.


4) I tried to install LAMP so I could use it as a software development machine and was unsuccessful.
I was successful...


5) I could see no difference in openoffice, not that I use it anyway.
Every distro has his own patches. But up to where I know the openSUSE version is basically the one from http://go-oo.org/. Not sure about the differences, but Ubuntu can get openSUSE patches and openSUSE can get Ubuntu patches... they are all public and free like free speech.


The office suite is openoffice 2.3 but they have added some microsoft proprietary code in them to make it better just go ahead and read about it on the net, I will post a link if u don't find it.
"The net" isn't the most trustly source. openSUSE doesn't includes propietary code... even less from Microsoft. The code of all the patches is available in the source RPM.

Ubuntu patches -> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/o/openoffice.org/openoffice.org_2.3.1-3ubuntu2.diff.gz
openSUSE patches -> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/OpenOffice.org:/STABLE/openSUSE_10.3/src/OpenOffice_org-2.3.1.2-1.1.src.rpm

[frankos44]

Hi, thanks for your comments.

My post in response to some dude saying he spent as much time configuring Ubuntu as he did using it. I begged to differ on that point because I instantly realised that for me the reverse was true.

I agree with you 100% that Linux / Gnome configuration can be configured to make one distro look like another.

Im not knocking Suse by any means, in fact for many users the initial configurartion of Suse is probable perfect.

The most important thing for me is installing a local LAMP server, I say that because its a huge benefit when developing locally on your own desktop rather than uploading to a server every 2 minuites.

Assuming I manage this and I see no reason why not with some effort, will it perform any better than Ubuntu 7.10 at the end of the day?

[zipperback]

The office suite is openoffice 2.3 but they have added some microsoft proprietary code in them to make it better just go ahead and read about it on the net, I will post a link if u don't find it.

Note the important words in your statement. microsoft proprietary code

Please DO post the links to it. I would like to read them.








Openoffice would crash once a week.

I have had OpenOffice.org crash ZERO times since I have installed Ubuntu Gutsy 7.10, and I use it on a daily basis for business.


- zipperback
:popcorn:

[snakeeyes]

Here r some of the links which clearly state Microsoft is now helping Novell develop compatibility with openoffice and microsoft office.

http://www.novell.com/news/press/microsoft_and_novell_announce_broad_collaboration_ on_windows_and_linux_interoperability_and_support

http://www.techweb.com/wire/software/193501757

The other link which I read, I will post it as soon as I find it. Don't worry about that. Also openoffice developers really liked the Novell-Microsoft deal so when r u ubuntu users going to stop using openoffice. So r u going to switch to gnome office or koffice suite now?

[zipperback]

The following quote is from:
http://www.novell.com/news/press/microsoft_and_novell_announce_broad_collaboration_ on_windows_and_linux_interoperability_and_support



The patent cooperation agreement enables Microsoft and Novell to give customers assurance of protection against patent infringement claims. It gives customers confidence that the technologies they use and deploy in their environments are compliant with the two companies’ patents.

As part of this agreement, Microsoft will provide a covenant not to assert its patent rights against customers who have purchased SUSE Linux Enterprise Server or other covered products from Novell, and Novell will provide an identical covenant to customers who have a licensed version of Windows or other covered products from Microsoft.



If microsoft is providing proprietary code to be included in the GPL software, then that code MUST be freely redistributable under the GPL.

Furthermore, by way of GPL provisions any rights granted to Novell by Microsoft, MUST be granted to anyone else who uses the code as distributed by Novell under the GPL.

At no time has Microsoft EVER proven any patent violations against Linux, although numerous times it has been made clear in the past that the Linux community wanted to see them, so that IF they existed, they could remove the problematic code and resolve any possible issues.

Microsoft and SCO is a classic example of the war against Linux. And now Novell is in bed with the people who partially funded the SCO / Novell war.


Furthermore, an important item in the Novell issue and Microsoft which does in fact affect those users of OpenSuse is the following statement.



As part of this agreement, Microsoft will provide a covenant not to assert its patent rights against customers who have purchased SUSE Linux Enterprise Server or other covered products from Novell, and Novell will provide an identical covenant to customers who have a licensed version of Windows or other covered products from Microsoft.



Their viewpoint of the situation is as long as you are buying their products (microsoft windows), you are free to use Linux, provided of course that you purchase a product from them which happens to be approved by them.


That in iteself is contradictory to the basic principles of the freedoms which are provided under the GPL which Linux is released under.


This is yet another attempt for Microsoft to control the use of Linux, it comes down to in my opinion that you are free to use Linux as long as they approve of which version you are using and as long as you are still buying their products. Where's the freedom in that? There isn't any if you are forced to abide by their rules.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

[snakeeyes]

Do u really think I will listen to Microsoft? Novell can release the code Microsoft has entered for other distros, but they won't use it for example Ubuntu will never use it due to their hatred for this deal. Novell never accepted Linux violates patents.

So now that u know openoffice supports this deal when will u stop using openoffice? So will Ubuntu ship openoffice with their next release or no?

[RedDwarf]

Here r some of the links which clearly state Microsoft is now helping Novell develop compatibility with openoffice and microsoft office.

http://www.novell.com/news/press/microsoft_and_novell_announce_broad_collaboration_ on_windows_and_linux_interoperability_and_support

http://www.techweb.com/wire/software/193501757

The other link which I read, I will post it as soon as I find it. Don't worry about that. Also openoffice developers really liked the Novell-Microsoft deal so when r u ubuntu users going to stop using openoffice. So r u going to switch to gnome office or koffice suite now?
Your second link says:

The development of the translators will be run as an open-source project, he added, and the results would be available under a license, likely the BSD license

Go to http://odf-converter.sourceforge.net and you will see:

Licensing model
This project is developed and released under a very liberal BSD-like license:
* Copyright (c) 2006, Clever Age
* All rights reserved.
*
* Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
* modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:
*
* * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
* notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
* * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
* notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
* documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
* * Neither the name of Clever Age, nor the names of its contributors may
* be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software
* without specific prior written permission.
*
* THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND ANY
* EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED
* WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE
* DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY
* DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES
* (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES;
* LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND
* ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT
* (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS
* SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.

The same license that you will find in usr/share/doc/packages/odf-converter/LICENSE.TXT in the RPM from http://download.novell.com/SummaryFree.jsp?buildid=ESrjfdE4U58%7E

And about the Microsoft paper in the development:

Microsoft (Funding, Architectural & Technical Guidance and Project co-coordination)



The "microsoft proprietary code" isn't proprietary and isn't from Microsoft.

[snakeeyes]

I told u I haven't finished giving my links yet. Whatever the case opensuse is still way better than ubunut. R any of u members in some other linux websites if not then go ask what some other distro users think of it.

[Incense]

Do u really think I will listen to Microsoft? Novell can release the code Microsoft has entered for other distros, but they won't use it for example Ubuntu will never use it due to their hatred for this deal. Novell never accepted Linux violates patents.

So now that u know openoffice supports this deal when will u stop using openoffice? So will Ubuntu ship openoffice with their next release or no?

Why wouldn't ubuntu ship OpenOffice? Is it because Novell has their hands in it's development? If that's the case, Novell sponsors a few other linux projects as well that Ubuntu will have to take out of their next release. See the link below.

http://en.opensuse.org/Novell_Supported_Projects

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how the MS Novell deal has been bad for linux. People seem very upset about the deal simply because it's Microsoft, and for no other reason.

[snakeeyes]

Exactly, the point I was trying to make is that since openoffice supports the novell deal and ubuntu doesn't then shouldn't they remove openoffice as well, or maybe ubuntu users should stop using openoffice. They will be hypocrites if they don't.

[Pandemic187]

Is Ubuntu really that buggy? I can't say that it has been in my experience...

[Incense]

Is Ubuntu really that buggy? I can't say that it has been in my experience...

I don't think so. I think it's really a great distro. Some people just seem to enjoy the extra polish that the OpenSUSE devs add to this distro.

[zipperback]

Is Ubuntu really that buggy? I can't say that it has been in my experience...

No it isn't. A few people have had bad experiences, but overall it is a very stable and solid Linux distribution.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

[zipperback]

Do u really think I will listen to Microsoft? Novell can release the code Microsoft has entered for other distros, but they won't use it for example Ubuntu will never use it due to their hatred for this deal. Novell never accepted Linux violates patents.


You're ignoring the facts.




So now that u know openoffice supports this deal when will u stop using openoffice? So will Ubuntu ship openoffice with their next release or no?


Current releases of OpenOffice.org are released under the GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL).

Providing that the code base is fully GPL/LGPL compliant, I see no reason why it would not be included.

This means that any company which contributes code to the project cannot claim proprietary restrictions over the use of the code. Once code has become GPL it STAYS GPL.

Ubuntu License Page
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/licensing

Ubuntu Philosophy Page
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy

OpenOffice.org License FAQ
http://www.openoffice.org/FAQs/faq-licensing.html#1


- zipperback

[bkline]

I have been using openSUSE for the past few weeks, and it's perfect for me, especially for someone who is searching for a polished distro ....

I still have one machine running SuSE 10.2, which I hadn't yet converted over to Ubuntu, and after seeing some of the high praise for SuSE 10.3 in this thread, I decided to give this new version a chance. So I downloaded the DVD ISO image, burned a disc, and started the upgrade process. Unfortunately, the experiment was not a success, as the installer informed me that it couldn't resolve the package dependency conflict which would result from the upgrade, and I would have to give up some pretty basic functionality (e.g., Firefox would have to go). If I'm going to have to install the OS from scratch anyway, this machine will cross over to Ubuntu.

Unlike some of the more rabid posters in the thread, I neither find any distribution horrible, nor any perfect, each having its own strengths and weaknesses. My experience with SuSE has found the attention to bug reports to be more responsive than for Ubuntu, and I've always had excellent results every time I've used their forums. On the other hand, I've never run into the dependency hell on Ubuntu which SuSE sometimes gets tangled up in, and I'm much happier with the apt tools than with SuSE's package management utilities.

My advice to some of the contributers to this thread, FWIW, is to enjoy the excellent options we have, and leave the brickbats to users of other operating systems.

travismh:

I'm glad you're enjoying SuSE.

Cheers,
Bob

[zipperback]

First thing is first u can't compare Novell with a child molesting group. Thats tooooooo extreme. Why did u feel dirty, the company that u despise is a super power of the software world, what they say goes and having good relations with might is always a good choice.


WHAT? listen to yourself... "what they say goes" ?

What they say has very little impact on the software world. They are 1 (one) Linux distribution out of numerous ones.




Anyone heard of silver light? Novell is working with Microsoft to port silver light to Linux web browsers otherwise we would be stuck in the past. Novell has made so many improvement to desktop environments like kde and gnome.


Just because Novell is working with Microsoft on Silver Light does NOT mean that Linux web browsers would be stuck in the past.

And for the record you cannot seriously attribute the development of BOTH Gnome and KDE to Novell.
Do you even know the history of the Gnome and KDE desktop systems?






If couldn't live with a rpm distro that is your fault, not opensuse's. I can't believe u want to stay with the buggy Ubuntu family of distros even after the problems u described u have had.





Seriously Ubuntu's software is more unstable than a trojan infected windows install. Did u read all the bugs I have listed above, seriously is it worth wasting time on an OS like that?


Provide documented evidence to support your claim to the above statement.


You are doing nothing more than spreading FUD. Please cease and decist or provide supporting proof of your statements.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

[Incense]

I still have one machine running SuSE 10.2, which I hadn't yet converted over to Ubuntu, and after seeing some of the high praise for SuSE 10.3 in this thread, I decided to give this new version a chance. So I downloaded the DVD ISO image, burned a disc, and started the upgrade process. Unfortunately, the experiment was not a success, as the installer informed me that it couldn't resolve the package dependency conflict which would result from the upgrade, and I would have to give up some pretty basic functionality (e.g., Firefox would have to go). If I'm going to have to install the OS from scratch anyway, this machine will cross over to Ubuntu.


I have never had good success upgrading any of my SuSE installs. I have my separate home partition that holds all my data nice and snug while I select the "New Install" option of the YaST installer. I thought 10.3 would be better, but I also found myself in dependency hell. It's too bad that upgrades are not more seamless. Maybe that upgrade button will finally work in 11. 10.3 is worth trying, even if you have to install from scratch IMHO. Then again, Gutsy isn't that bad either. I may be switching to the next LTS if it's any good.

[frankos44]

Besides my earlier gripes about SUSE, I am still desperately trying to find a reason to recommend it over Ubuntu, but I just cant find one. I agree that SUSE looks good, but under the bonnet I only see disadvantages.

None of the PC's I have installed Ubuntu 7.10 on has ever crashed or done anything out of the ordinary unless the hardware has either been defective or not supported.

I use my Ubuntu PC all day long developing software for web servers 50 hours a week (its a hard life) and its rock stable as are the Ubuntu Servers I maintain.

For those who are experiencing problems with Ubuntu stability.. what an earth are you doing?

If you are installing unsupported applications then you are doing this at your own risk, if you want stability keep your sticky inexperienced fingers out. Maybe you are just trying to replicate windows? Flexibility and Security dont always work in harmony and you cant have both.

I have 2 teenage daughters with ATTITUDE who can break a windows machine in a day without using a machine gun!! They now use Ubuntu and have done for over a year without any hassle whatsoever for me.

One other point.. Why are we talking about SUSE on a UBUNTU forum? dont they have their own?

By all means go there and use SUSE, but its not fair that people who are toying on the idea of using Ubuntu are put of by highly inaccurate Posts they might read on here.

SUSE, UBUNTU, FEDORA, MANDRAKE etc etc etc can all co-exist together, its healthy that way and will only accelerate development which in turn benefits us all and will hopefully leave greedy Microsoft in its wake.

[snakeeyes]

Besides my earlier gripes about SUSE, I am still desperately trying to find a reason to recommend it over Ubuntu, but I just cant find one. I agree that SUSE looks good, but under the bonnet I only see disadvantages.

None of the PC's I have installed Ubuntu 7.10 on has ever crashed or done anything out of the ordinary unless the hardware has either been defective or not supported.

I use my Ubuntu PC all day long developing software for web servers 50 hours a week (its a hard life) and its rock stable as are the Ubuntu Servers I maintain.

For those who are experiencing problems with Ubuntu stability.. what an earth are you doing?

If you are installing unsupported applications then you are doing this at your own risk, if you want stability keep your sticky inexperienced fingers out. Maybe you are just trying to replicate windows? Flexibility and Security dont always work in harmony and you cant have both.

I have 2 teenage daughters with ATTITUDE who can break a windows machine in a day without using a machine gun!! They now use Ubuntu and have done for over a year without any hassle whatsoever for me.

One other point.. Why are we talking about SUSE on a UBUNTU forum? dont they have their own?

By all means go there and use SUSE, but its not fair that people who are toying on the idea of using Ubuntu are put of by highly inaccurate Posts they might read on here.

SUSE, UBUNTU, FEDORA, MANDRAKE etc etc etc can all co-exist together, its healthy that way and will only accelerate development which in turn benefits us all and will hopefully leave greedy Microsoft in its wake.
As far as I know servers of any distribution r stable, I have tried Ubuntu server edition once only when fiesty was around and it was pretty good, fiesty itself was stable. Gutsy is not as stable as fiesty, simple as that. Many people have had problems with Gutsy. For me some hardware that worked on fiesty wouldn't even work on Gutsy. What type a distro do u call that?

We do have a SUSE forum. I am a member of many distros forums and not just Ubuntu, and as far as I know it isn't a crime to be on another distros forums. This is the other OS talk forum if u haven't read already we can talk about any other OS we want here.

[frankos44]

In YOUR experience Ubuntu 7.10 server is less stable. In my experience they show no signs of instabillity.

The world is full of people who critisize, normally by people who have no idea what its all about in the first place (no offence meant).

Put it this way, are you trying to kill Ubuntu off? and if you so would it make you feel better if it did?

Sorry if that sounds rude but I hate critics. Evereyone involved with any of the distros is doing a great job volentarilly.

Constuctive accurate comments are far more helpfull to all concerned.

[snakeeyes]

In YOUR experience Ubuntu 7.10 server is less stable. In my experience they show no signs of instabillity.

The world is full of people who critisize, normally by people who have no idea what its all about in the first place (no offence meant).

Put it this way, are you trying to kill Ubuntu off? and if you so would it make you feel better if it did?

Sorry if that sounds rude but I hate critics. Evereyone involved with any of the distros is doing a great job volentarilly.

Constuctive accurate comments are far more helpfull to all concerned.
Where did I say Ubuntu server was unstable? Can u point that out please.

[frankos44]

Ooops sorry about that, I stand corrected.

[bkline]

Why are we talking about SUSE on a UBUNTU forum? dont they have their own?

I think you missed the title of this forum. :-)

[frankos44]

stop interrupting me.. im trying to work haha

[alexzzz]

What could u not get to work on it? Maybe I can help.

I tried opensuse 10.3 and had problems with my wireless Internet. Opensuse couldn't find my network and connect to it. All i got was a message that it couldn't give an ip (by automatic) . When i gave an ip myself it did not worked either.

[snakeeyes]

People who hate Novell for the Microsoft deal, please read this. Its has been written by Novell and opensuse developers and users.

http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS

[Jimmey]

I know nothing about all these claims that Novell is making awful dealings with Microsoft - Or even if they are true. I don't care. I don't see how, at the moment, it could affect the way OpenSuSE could run.

I think that not using a distro based upon who it's developers are dealing with (when there seems to me to be no proof that this even affects the final product) is a bit silly.

So I put that to the side and decided to try OpenSuSE myself.

The installation was quite slow when compared to Ubuntu's, but it was very thorough. It detected the swap partition already on my computer, and set up a seperate /home by itself. There has been some argument that a seperate /home is not a good option for default installs because it might deter less confident users, but with OpenSuSE it was a breeze.

My display wasn't configured correctly by default, but then again, Ubuntu is too at fault on this one, and as the solution to the problem is identical across both O/S's, it was easily fixed. A little annoying though, and a big problem for those new to Linux.

I did manage to get networking sorted out (bcm43xx). It was a little bit more difficult using OpenSuSE that it was Ubuntu, but this may have been due to the fact that I'm using KDE with Suse and Gnome with Ubuntu.

Software installation is a bit more confusing with Suse. With Ubuntu, the idea of software repositories, how they're managed, and installing software, is communicated a little better. It seems Ubuntu tries harder to sort your software installation troubles for you, where Suse is content just to do as it's told, a shout at you when you're wrong. There seems no easy way to correct dependency issues with Suse.

The main reason I had for trying Suse is that I'm beginning to notice a few bugs in Ubuntu that are becoming difficult to live with. The totem scrollbar issues, for example, and the fact that I have to
sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart everytime I boot just to get the internet are an annoyance.

I've yet to experience such difficulties with suse, although in fairness I've not tested this distro very extensively. It does seem a little bit more grounded, and polished, though.

I think this is partially because, on a default install, Suse appears nicer than Ubuntu does.

The GRUB menu is really, really nice. Acknowledged, you can do similar things with Ubuntu, but there's extra effort required which I can't seem to find.

Things like the login screen and default themes seem nicer in Suse, too. Obviously, this is down to personal preference more than anything else. But over all, I'd say that Suse looks a little bit nicer.

It's more consistent, too. The theming of Suse encompasses, as I've mentioned, the grub menu, the login screen and the default desktop appearance. Not to discredit the job that the artists working on Ubuntu have done, but Suse's appearance seems more professional.

My sound card was a little bit more problematic in Ubuntu than it was in Suse. Not that Suse was perfect, but it was a little easier to get my sound working in Suse.

That said, Ubuntu's restricted driver manager is unlike anything Suse has to offer. I've still to install the non-OSS nVidia driver in Suse because of dependency issues I have no idea how to resolve. In Ubuntu, it was a couple of clicks.

On the score of hardware management, then, it seems to me to be fairly even.

But there are certain features about Suse that I seem to prefer. Small features like being able to select which O/S to choose to boot next after a restart (without having to use the GRUB menu) are a help!

I'm not yet ready to make decision on which I prefer, as for each of Suse's strengths, I'm able to find a few discouraging weaknesses. I think alot hinges on the usability of Suse's package management system, and whether or not I can get it to do what I want as easily as I can in Ubuntu.

[snakeeyes]

I know nothing about all these claims that Novell is making awful dealings with Microsoft - Or even if they are true. I don't care. I don't see how, at the moment, it could affect the way OpenSuSE could run.

I think that not using a distro based upon who it's developers are dealing with (when there seems to me to be no proof that this even affects the final product) is a bit silly.

So I put that to the side and decided to try OpenSuSE myself.

The installation was quite slow when compared to Ubuntu's, but it was very thorough. It detected the swap partition already on my computer, and set up a seperate /home by itself. There has been some argument that a seperate /home is not a good option for default installs because it might deter less confident users, but with OpenSuSE it was a breeze.

My display wasn't configured correctly by default, but then again, Ubuntu is too at fault on this one, and as the solution to the problem is identical across both O/S's, it was easily fixed. A little annoying though, and a big problem for those new to Linux.

I did manage to get networking sorted out (bcm43xx). It was a little bit more difficult using OpenSuSE that it was Ubuntu, but this may have been due to the fact that I'm using KDE with Suse and Gnome with Ubuntu.

Software installation is a bit more confusing with Suse. With Ubuntu, the idea of software repositories, how they're managed, and installing software, is communicated a little better. It seems Ubuntu tries harder to sort your software installation troubles for you, where Suse is content just to do as it's told, a shout at you when you're wrong. There seems no easy way to correct dependency issues with Suse.

The main reason I had for trying Suse is that I'm beginning to notice a few bugs in Ubuntu that are becoming difficult to live with. The totem scrollbar issues, for example, and the fact that I have to
sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart everytime I boot just to get the internet are an annoyance.

I've yet to experience such difficulties with suse, although in fairness I've not tested this distro very extensively. It does seem a little bit more grounded, and polished, though.

I think this is partially because, on a default install, Suse appears nicer than Ubuntu does.

The GRUB menu is really, really nice. Acknowledged, you can do similar things with Ubuntu, but there's extra effort required which I can't seem to find.

Things like the login screen and default themes seem nicer in Suse, too. Obviously, this is down to personal preference more than anything else. But over all, I'd say that Suse looks a little bit nicer.

It's more consistent, too. The theming of Suse encompasses, as I've mentioned, the grub menu, the login screen and the default desktop appearance. Not to discredit the job that the artists working on Ubuntu have done, but Suse's appearance seems more professional.

My sound card was a little bit more problematic in Ubuntu than it was in Suse. Not that Suse was perfect, but it was a little easier to get my sound working in Suse.

That said, Ubuntu's restricted driver manager is unlike anything Suse has to offer. I've still to install the non-OSS nVidia driver in Suse because of dependency issues I have no idea how to resolve. In Ubuntu, it was a couple of clicks.

On the score of hardware management, then, it seems to me to be fairly even.

But there are certain features about Suse that I seem to prefer. Small features like being able to select which O/S to choose to boot next after a restart (without having to use the GRUB menu) are a help!

I'm not yet ready to make decision on which I prefer, as for each of Suse's strengths, I'm able to find a few discouraging weaknesses. I think alot hinges on the usability of Suse's package management system, and whether or not I can get it to do what I want as easily as I can in Ubuntu.
Hi, for the nvidia drivers the latest drivers require u to update your system. First of all after installing suse update your system after adding all the repositories. Then there will be no problems. Also if u like the apt-get system on Ubuntu then its there in SUSE as well, u can install "apt" using yast.

I agree living with bugs is very difficult and Ubuntu developers don't care at all about bugs, I remember reporting bugs last year that still haven't been fixed and there r bugs present from fiesty or maybe before that r still in Gutsy and I can name them if u like.

[Jimmey]

Hi, for the nvidia drivers the latest drivers require u to update your system. First of all after installing suse update your system after adding all the repositories. Then there will be no problems. Also if u like the apt-get system on Ubuntu then its there in SUSE as well, u can install "apt" using yast..

Thanks. I'll look into that.

Having had a little bit more experience with Suse's package manager, I can pretty much safely say that I do prefer Ubuntu when it comes to software installation. When I do it in Suse, it just seems to scan the repositories forever, constantly flashing windows showing me which ones it's downloading information from. I will try install apt, see if I can make a difference with that.

[snakeeyes]

Hi, first of all update your system and set everything up, and then install apt to be safe. Seriously opensuse is too good to leave because of its package management system. Though don't worry the package management system improves with every release. Oh yeah after setting everything u can turn off the option to refresh repos every time u start the package manager and also install smart, its a good package manager as well.

[alexzzz]

Can anybody answer me why opensuse cannot find my wireless network?

[kjb34]

I may have to try OpenSuse and see if it works for me.

[snakeeyes]

Can anybody answer me why opensuse cannot find my wireless network?
what did u do to configure it on Ubuntu?

[alexzzz]

what did u do to configure it on Ubuntu?

Nothing!!!

It worked automatically!

[snakeeyes]

alright what wireless router r u using, or if on a laptop what wireless card is it?

[alexzzz]

alright what wireless router r u using, or if on a laptop what wireless card is it?

I using an desktop computer with an LINKSYS WMP54G WIRELESS PCI CARD 11G card and my router is also Linksys.

As i wrote before, opensuse can find my card but it can't give it an ip. When i give manually an ip it doesn't work either.

[snakeeyes]

I using an desktop computer with an LINKSYS WMP54G WIRELESS PCI CARD 11G card and my router is also Linksys.

As i wrote before, opensuse can find my card but it can't give it an ip. When i give manually an ip it doesn't work either.
does this help?

http://www.suseforums.net/index.php?showtopic=37581&pid=223016&st=0&#entry223016

[Incense]

For those of you who don't like YaST as a package manager, or are having problems with dependencies, you can run the following lines as root in the command line to install the SMART package manager.


zypper sa -r http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/smart/openSUSE_10.3/smart.repo
zypper ref smart
zypper install smart
smart channel --add http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/files/smart/opensuse-10.3.txt
smart mirror --add http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/files/smart/mirrors-eu.txt
smart update
smart install smart-gui

You can then run smart from your application selector (Kickoff, SLAB...) or type


smart --gui

You'll get a nice easy to use synaptic looking window that will take care of dependencies better then YaST, and work about 100 X faster too.

[alexzzz]

does this help?

http://www.suseforums.net/index.php?showtopic=37581&pid=223016&st=0&#entry223016

I am gonna try this once i am home.

Thanks in advance!

[snakeeyes]

I am gonna try this once i am home.

Thanks in advance!
No problem!

[lespaul_rentals]

hah, then why the go for the deal in the first place huh?
enjoy your sellout OS, once its loaded with spyware and riddled with Microsoft nonsense you will see...

What is up with you? You've come into this thread and posted a load of FUD and flamebait. Do you even know what you are talking about?

Yes, Novell did make a "deal with the devil," but the thing is Microsoft was threatening to sue. I'm as much anti-corporation as the next guy, but in the world in which we live in Novell has done some great things for everyone who wants to use Linux.

Their distro is polished and near-perfect. Their hardware support is excellent. They have created a distro that is professional, integratable, and functional. For the average user, the business, and the office openSUSE is exactly what he or she needs. It's sort of the Mac of the FOSS world.

No offense to Ubuntu, as I use Kubuntu 7.10 because it clicks with my PC like a dream, but openSUSE is the only distro I can recommend to new Linux users and feel confident they aren't going to call me the next day with a problem. I use it on my laptop and love it, it runs 99% flawlessly. YaST2 has made huge leaps and bounds in improvement and it is now the perfect way to configure your entire system from one place. If you think it's too slow, grow up and use the command-line version.

And what about 1-Click Install? I can go to the website for applications like VLC Player, and click one link and not worry about anything else.

So, Sunny, stop spreading lies and other such foolishness. Yeah, I'm real sure openSUSE 10.3 is sending data to Microsoft letting them know you ripped a CD. Especially considering it's open-source! We all know that open-source software is just filled with secret little backdoors. Microsoft's deal with Novell actually may have helped us. As much as I hate Microsoft's dirty tactics, let's face it, they've done amazing things with proprietary software.

[snakeeyes]

What is up with you? You've come into this thread and posted a load of FUD and flamebait. Do you even know what you are talking about?

Yes, Novell did make a "deal with the devil," but the thing is Microsoft was threatening to sue. I'm as much anti-corporation as the next guy, but in the world in which we live in Novell has done some great things for everyone who wants to use Linux.

Their distro is polished and near-perfect. Their hardware support is excellent. They have created a distro that is professional, integratable, and functional. For the average user, the business, and the office openSUSE is exactly what he or she needs. It's sort of the Mac of the FOSS world.

No offense to Ubuntu, as I use Kubuntu 7.10 because it clicks with my PC like a dream, but openSUSE is the only distro I can recommend to new Linux users and feel confident they aren't going to call me the next day with a problem. I use it on my laptop and love it, it runs 99% flawlessly. YaST2 has made huge leaps and bounds in improvement and it is now the perfect way to configure your entire system from one place. If you think it's too slow, grow up and use the command-line version.

And what about 1-Click Install? I can go to the website for applications like VLC Player, and click one link and not worry about anything else.

So, Sunny, stop spreading lies and other such foolishness. Yeah, I'm real sure openSUSE 10.3 is sending data to Microsoft letting them know you ripped a CD. Especially considering it's open-source! We all know that open-source software is just filled with secret little backdoors. Microsoft's deal with Novell actually may have helped us. As much as I hate Microsoft's dirty tactics, let's face it, they've done amazing things with proprietary software.
Excellent reply! OpenSUSE really is like the OS X of the Linux world.

[RedDwarf]

Let's face some things:
- Ubuntu reprository structure is a lot simpler. Packman and the Build Service are great, very flexible... but they also add complexity. That's why updates are so problematic. You can't expect every package from Packman to be mantained when the installation DVD doesn't knows about that repository. Don't use any external repository (so no multimedia support) and updates will work without problems...
I myself have /home in a separate partirion and with every release I reinstall. Probably with Ubuntu I would do the same... isn't so difficult and it's extra-secure. But I suppose that you could also update openSUSE without too much problems using Smart.

- There aren't users of both openSUSE and Ubuntu. There are openSUSE users that also use Ubuntu, and Ubuntu users that also use openSUSE.
So there is no one able to compare correctly both distros.

- Yes yes, libzypp improves with every release and bla bla bla. The fact is that right now libzypp is faaaaaaaar from perfect. Just the lack of a priority system makes it unable to manage a lot of repositories from the openSUSE Build Service.
Until 10.3 libzypp locked by default any package installed from a third party repository!!!!!! Right now libzypp downloads package metadata in EVERY language even when one of the first installation steps in openSUSE is to specify your language.
These are just some examples of OBVIOUS bugs in Libzypp. Go to openSUSE Bugzilla and search for bugs assigned to "dmacvicar at novell dot com"... there are 60!!!
It is a toy... If I would be forced to use libzypp I would not use openSUSE.

[snakeeyes]

Let's face some things:
- Ubuntu reprository structure is a lot simpler. Packman and the Build Service are great, very flexible... but they also add complexity. That's why updates are so problematic. You can't expect every package from Packman to be mantained when the installation DVD doesn't knows about that repository. Don't use any external repository (so no multimedia support) and updates will work without problems...
I myself have /home in a separate partirion and with every release I reinstall. Probably with Ubuntu I would do the same... isn't so difficult and it's extra-secure. But I suppose that you could also update openSUSE without too much problems using Smart.

- There aren't users of both openSUSE and Ubuntu. There are openSUSE users that also use Ubuntu, and Ubuntu users that also use openSUSE.
So there is no one able to compare correctly both distros.

- Yes yes, libzypp improves with every release and bla bla bla. The fact is that right now libzypp is faaaaaaaar from perfect. Just the lack of a priority system makes it unable to manage a lot of repositories from the openSUSE Build Service.
Until 10.3 libzypp locked by default any package installed from a third party repository!!!!!! Right now libzypp downloads package metadata in EVERY language even when one of the first installation steps in openSUSE is to specify your language.
These are just some examples of OBVIOUS bugs in Libzypp. Go to openSUSE Bugzilla and search for bugs assigned to "dmacvicar at novell dot com"... there are 60!!!
It is a toy... If I would be forced to use libzypp I would not use openSUSE.
who asks u to use zypper alone? there r many package managers in suse. if this is your only complaint which is package management and u don't use suse because of that then u miss out on a lot.

I don't know what the deal is with package management anyway, how often does someone install programs. I have setup my system properly once and for updates I have the opensuse updater applet running on the taskbar that notifies me of updates. I haven't used the package manager in a long time. People who actually use their computers for work rather then just installing stuff all day long won't be affected much opensuse's package management system.

[RedDwarf]

who asks u to use zypper alone? there r many package managers in suse.
All the "official" openSUSE package managers are libzypp based: YaST module, zypper and opensuse-updater.


if this is your only complaint which is package management and u don't use suse because of that then u miss out on a lot.
I use openSUSE both at work and home.


I don't know what the deal is with package management anyway, how often does someone install programs.
Has more to do with updates. opensuse-updater probably will not give problems if you only update patches (only from "Updates" repository). But I have *27* repositories and I can't trust opensuse-updater to make correct decisions when updating packages from all of them.

[snakeeyes]

All the "official" openSUSE package managers are libzypp based: YaST module, zypper and opensuse-updater.


I use openSUSE both at work and home.


Has more to do with updates. opensuse-updater probably will not give problems if you only update patches (only from "Updates" repository). But I have *27* repositories and I can't trust opensuse-updater to make correct decisions when updating packages from all of them.
OpenSUSE has smart package manager as well. You can also install "apt", its the Debian port of the apt-get system.

Good to know u use it at work and home.

I have many repos added as well and it gives me all the updates in all of them, I have even checked this many times cause in the beginning I thought the same thing about whether or not its trustworthy.

[zipperback]

And so it begins....

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4154655#post4154655



Microsoft claims that Linux, an open source software project that's used alike by home PC enthusiasts and multinational corporations, infringes on 42 of its patents. Of late, the company has launched an enforcement campaign under which it's been attempting to collect royalties from vendors that use Linux commercially.



And for the record....


Last year, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said his company also expects payment from computer users who run a version of Linux distributed by Red Hat.


They want money from END USERS.

Do you STILL think Microsoft is doing Linux a favor by "helping" Novell?

My guess is they are going to claim CODE CONTAMINATION later down the line, and say their MS proprietary code was added without permission, and try to claim ownership of said code, in a manner similar to the whole SCO fiasco or something similar.


- zipperback
:popcorn:

[snakeeyes]

Seriously Microsoft can't do anything. Linux developers can take Microsoft to court and demad Microsoft reveals which patents Linux infringes so they can change them and problem solved. If it turns out Microsoft was lying then they will be in big trouble.

To me it just seems they r doing this to discourage people from using Linux.

[zipperback]

Seriously Microsoft can't do anything. Linux developers can take Microsoft to court and demad Microsoft reveals which patents Linux infringes so they can change them and problem solved. If it turns out Microsoft was lying then they will be in big trouble.

To me it just seems they r doing this to discourage people from using Linux.

That's my point. They're doing anything and everything possible to stop Linux. These whole Patent License agreement issues are without merit, but the general public doesn't understand them. However, if there is a code contamination issue down the line it would mean another nasty sco vs linux type war. (again)

- zipperback
:popcorn:

[RedDwarf]

OpenSUSE has smart package manager as well.
Is what I use.


I have many repos added as well and it gives me all the updates in all of them, I have even checked this many times cause in the beginning I thought the same thing about whether or not its trustworthy.
Just tested:
I have KDE:KDE3 repository and I updated to KDE 3.5.8 from it. This repository has fileshareset 2.0-41.1, while the version from the DVD is 2.0-372. That's something that happens sometimes, Build Service version numbers are minor than default packages version numbers.
Since I installed all KDE 3.5.8 from that repository I decided that I would use fileshareset from the same repository. But if I change idea Smart lets me change from 2.0-41.1 to 2.0-372.5 without a single aditional dependency.

Now I ask opensuse-updater for patches (that's easy, only patches from update repository). It says me that I need an update for fileshareset to support the last Flash plug-in (even if the updated KDE 3.5.8 packages already fixed the problem...):

kdebase3-nsplugin update to support newer FlashPlayer versions
Descripción: This update is necessary to support the new FlashPlayer
version, which required XEmbed support.
And marks it like a *security* update.
What this patch would do is update fileshareset to 2.0-372.5... but he also ask me for addtional dependencies:

OpenEXR-32bit-1.4.0a-36.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
aspell-32bit-0.60.5-45.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
avahi-32bit-0.6.20-40.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
avahi-compat-mDNSResponder-32bit-0.6.20-40.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
avahi-glib-32bit-0.6.20-40.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
dbus-1-qt3-32bit-0.62-110.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
fam-32bit-2.7.0-70.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
gdbm-32bit-1.8.3-302.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
hal-32bit-0.5.9_git20070831-13.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
keyutils-libs-32bit-1.2-42.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
libacl-32bit-2.2.34-75.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
libart_lgpl-32bit-2.3.19-35.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
libattr-32bit-2.4.28-81.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
libbz2-1-32bit-1.0.4-42.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
libidn-32bit-1.0-11.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
libjasper-32bit-1.900.1-44.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
liblazy-32bit-0.2-11.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
libmng-32bit-1.0.10-14.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
libusb-32bit-0.1.12-72.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
qt3-32bit-3.3.8-76.x86_64 (Main Repository (OSS))
libcom_err2-32bit-1.40.2-20.2.x86_64 (Main Update Repository)
libuuid1-32bit-1.40.2-20.2.x86_64 (Main Update Repository)
krb5-32bit-1.6.2-22.2.x86_64 (Main Update Repository)
kdelibs3-32bit-3.5.7-72.6.x86_64 (Main Update Repository)
kdelibs3-default-style-32bit-3.5.7-72.6.x86_64 (Main Update Repository)
kdebase3-32bit-3.5.7-87.5.x86_64 (Main Update Repository)

It asks for 25 dependencies that aren't really need... I can't trust it.

The problem happens to be that the patch says it requires "kdebase3 == 3.5.7-87.5" and since I have KDE 3.5.8 and no 3.5.7 problems start. But I can't look with so much detail to every patch opensuse-updater notifies me....

[kvonb]

-

[lespaul_rentals]

collect royalties from vendors that use Linux commercially.

Big difference between demanding royalties from those who use it for free and those who use it commercially. I disagree with it, but there's no reason for panic.

I don't get why everyone freaks out about Microsoft so much. If Microsoft ever attacks Linux in any significant way, they know they will get destroyed. And I'm not just talking boycotts and angry users demanding a stop, I could see the Microsoft website getting DDoSed (disclaimer: NOT ENCOURAGING ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR). They already fear us a bit now, and I seriously doubt they want to throw gasoline onto the coals.

Back to the openSUSE discussion, I personally found the dependencies to be managed slightly better with Packman than apt. apt would sometimes remove applications that I had installed and got working properly without issues. Most of the time it works without a hitch, however, so I'm not complaining. Packman has never broken anything in my experiences.

[RedDwarf]

That's the joy of rpm based distros!
No, it's not. And the fact that you are mixing RPM with dependency resolution makes clear that you don't know what you are talking about. That's a libzypp problem, not a RPM problem.

[Incense]

That's my point. They're doing anything and everything possible to stop Linux. These whole Patent License agreement issues are without merit, but the general public doesn't understand them. However, if there is a code contamination issue down the line it would mean another nasty sco vs linux type war. (again)

- zipperback
:popcorn:

You kind of nailed it with the general public remark. MS wants this stuff to hit the local and national news that they are going after Linux because of patent issues. When Jo computer user hears that, he won't give linux a second look since he doesn't want MS going after him. The deals that these companies make at least give their users some breathing room when it comes to these issues. Still I think it's really low of MS to do this, and shows a bit how scared they are of linux.

[Wiebelhaus]

So I've tried it , Been using it for a few days , really easy to setup & configure , it's very pretty and works extremely well also seems stable as a rock but YAST should be killed with fire , could that stupid thing be any slower or any buggier for that matter?

But having said that I'm going to give this OS alittle longer or more of a chance but If I freak out and Format & Install another it'll be because of YAST , no doubt.

[lespaul_rentals]

So I've tried it , Been using it for a few days , really easy to setup & configure , it's very pretty and works extremely well also seems stable as a rock but YAST should be killed with fire , could that stupid thing be any slower or any buggier for that matter?

But having said that I'm going to give this OS alittle longer or more of a chance but If I freak out and Format & Install another it'll be because of YAST , no doubt.

Use the command-line version of YaST, much faster and still functional.

[frankos44]

Does anyone actually know how to install apt-get on openSuSE and set the repositories to "All open source". I need to get this so called masterpiece doing something useful before I dismiss it completely.

[RebounD11]

Does anyone actually know how to install apt-get on openSuSE and set the repositories to "All open source". I need to get this so called masterpiece doing something useful before I dismiss it completely.

Go to Yast -> Software -> Software Management and start up the package manager.

search for apt and install the packages (if you're on Gnome the packages on the right are already installed) - it will take care of dependencies

as far as I know apt is a command line tool and I don't know how you can set All open source there... it just searches through your enabled repos. You are confusing apt with Ubuntus Add/Remove application or with Synaptic (which by the way can be installed on OpenSuSE too)

if you think Yast is slow, you ca try the command line (zypper install apt or smart install apt - I'm not sure if that's the right command for smart) or try the Smart GUI (smart --gui in the terminal).

or another way to install apt (by far the most at hand and user friendly and so on) is the 1-click install: go here:

http://software.opensuse.org/search

and search for apt and click 1-click install for the version you want.

Now for the question I wanted to ask you: what's the useful thing you want to do with it that requires apt?

[frankos44]

Thanks

I need LAMP running locally mainly.

[snakeeyes]

Has anyone checked out OpenSUSE 11.0 Alpha 1?

http://news.opensuse.org/2008/01/18/announcing-opensuse-110-alpha1/#comments

The installer has a new look, plus I think they added KDE 4.0, and if KDE 4.1 is out before suse 11's release they will add that as well cause that release should have most KDE configuration options.

[frankos44]

If we are talking about Beta testing now...... has anyone tried "Hardy Heron"?

[url]http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/alpha-3/hardy-desktop-i386.iso

Apparently some of the feature not up to the job have been improved together with better themes etc. It sounds like a more polished version of Gutsy.

[snakeeyes]

I can't really do beta testing cause I am a student and I need a working system. I will try it when it comes out though.

[snakeeyes]

Oh yeah if anyone wants to test out for themselves that opensuse's openoffice is a bit different then try opening a .docx file in opensuse 10.3 and the document should open up. In Ubuntu a .docx file will be like a compressed package. In SUSE the .docx file can be opened but tables and stuff will be messed up but u can read text though so its readable, in Ubuntu's open office u can't do much.

[cogitordi]

After having frustration with Ubuntu 7.10 and Nvidia, I just tried the OpenSuse 10.3 Live CD. It works perfectly with my Nvidia 6100 GPU.

Many folks have the problem that I'm seeing in Ubuntu, which is that the display flashes (distorts) every time the CPU frequency is scaled when the computer has Nvidia video hardware. I understand that this is a bug in the Nvidia driver (closed source) and I've sent a bug report to Nvidia.

However, OpenSuse works out-of-the-box with the nv driver.

[snakeeyes]

After having frustration with Ubuntu 7.10 and Nvidia, I just tried the OpenSuse 10.3 Live CD. It works perfectly with my Nvidia 6100 GPU.

Many folks have the problem that I'm seeing in Ubuntu, which is that the display flashes (distorts) every time the CPU frequency is scaled when the computer has Nvidia video hardware. I understand that this is a bug in the Nvidia driver (closed source) and I've sent a bug report to Nvidia.

However, OpenSuse works out-of-the-box with the nv driver.
I think that bug affects specific nvidia cards right? I had that on one card on one machine and not on the other. Yeah u right its not specific to one distro.

[LuisAugusto]

I use to be a opensuse lover, I even wrote a review of OpenSUSE 10.3 vs Ubuntu 7.10.

However, my opinion has changed a lot, now, in all seriousness, I hate OpenSUSE, it's a distro that has make want to be in Windows again, it's that bad. Why? Package Management, it sucks, and I don't even use YaST (it's a pain in the a**), I use SMART PM, which is less suckier, but sucks anyway.

I only use OpenSUSE 10.3 because I like those KDE 4.0 packages, in all other distros I will have to build it from source, however, even those are giving me problems right now.

YaST is an impressive tool (not in PM), I would like to see something like that on Ubuntu, but more user friendly (I don't have any problem with YaST, but I can't see my sister or my dad trying to play with it)

[snakeeyes]

I use to be a opensuse lover, I even wrote a review of OpenSUSE 10.3 vs Ubuntu 7.10.

However, my opinion has changed a lot, now, in all seriousness, I hate OpenSUSE, it's a distro that has make want to be in Windows again, it's that bad. Why? Package Management, it sucks, and I don't even use YaST (it's a pain in the a**), I use SMART PM, which is less suckier, but sucks anyway.

I only use OpenSUSE 10.3 because I like those KDE 4.0 packages, in all other distros I will have to build it from source, however, even those are giving me problems right now.

YaST is an impressive tool (not in PM), I would like to see something like that on Ubuntu, but more user friendly (I don't have any problem with YaST, but I can't see my sister or my dad trying to play with it)
Did the package management really bother u that much? It never bothered me much cause I don't install new stuff that much. I just installed all the stuff I need in the first install, sometimes when I do need something new I install it.

The new OpenSUSE updater applet is great, remember how it was in 10.2, 10.3 has still improved a lot.

I have heard and read in the suseforums that package management will be greatly improved in SUSE 11.

[LuisAugusto]

Did the package management really bother u that much? It never bothered me much cause I don't install new stuff that much. I just installed all the stuff I need in the first install, sometimes when I do need something new I install it.

The new OpenSUSE updater applet is great, remember how it was in 10.2, 10.3 has still improved a lot.

I have heard and read in the suseforums that package management will be greatly improved in SUSE 11.

Yes it did (and does).

I forgot to mention before that I think that OpenSUSE 10.3 is the better distro if you aren't going to touch nothing after the install.

However, that isn't my user case, I just install things all the freaking time, and dealing with a poor PM build distro is a torture.

I use OpenSUSE since 10 (I used SLED 10 too), the package manegement has really improved, but at the side of APT, it's still nothing.

That said, Ubuntu surprise me every time more, it's a non-innovate distro but seems to use quite well others innovations XD

[RebounD11]

Package Management, it sucks

I can tell you one thing that doesn't suck about PM in SuSE: 1-click install (others have sth like that now too but this one is still the best). And I too install stuff all the time and it doesn't feel that bad (I probably got used to it, and zypper is pretty fast being CLI only).

I have a question though... I used Synaptic in Fedora, can it be used in OpenSuSE too? I haven't tried that yet, now since I don't have OpenSuSE installed any more I have too experiment on my girlfriend's computer and I don't wanna break it :)

[snakeeyes]

You can also install the apt-get in opensuse. Its in the repos.

[Incense]

I can tell you one thing that doesn't suck about PM in SuSE: 1-click install (others have sth like that now too but this one is still the best). And I too install stuff all the time and it doesn't feel that bad (I probably got used to it, and zypper is pretty fast being CLI only).

I have a question though... I used Synaptic in Fedora, can it be used in OpenSuSE too? I haven't tried that yet, now since I don't have OpenSuSE installed any more I have too experiment on my girlfriend's computer and I don't wanna break it :)

You need to install Apt first.

http://en.opensuse.org/APT

Seems like way too much work when SMART works so well, but why not give it a go.

http://http://en.opensuse.org/Synaptic (http://en.opensuse.org/Synaptic)

[RedDwarf]

I use SMART PM, which is less suckier, but sucks anyway.
Smart is better than APT. Don't take my world, just accept the facts... read the "Case Studies" in http://svn.labix.org/smart/trunk/README
Until you can say why these tests aren't valid or/and you provide other tests where APT behaves better than Smart that's something that can't be discussed.
Gustavo Niemeyer, Smart author, was APT-RPM mantainer and Synaptic co-maintainer... he dropped them to work on something *better*.

[LuisAugusto]

I can tell you one thing that doesn't suck about PM in SuSE: 1-click install (others have sth like that now too but this one is still the best). And I too install stuff all the time and it doesn't feel that bad (I probably got used to it, and zypper is pretty fast being CLI only).

I have a question though... I used Synaptic in Fedora, can it be used in OpenSuSE too? I haven't tried that yet, now since I don't have OpenSuSE installed any more I have too experiment on my girlfriend's computer and I don't wanna break it :)

OpenSUSE Build Service rocks, 1 click install, doesn't, Add/Remove from Ubuntu it's years away in usability terms, plus, 1 click install is slow as hell, and has a pretty bad GUI design.


You can also install the apt-get in opensuse. Its in the repos.

I know, but I haven't test it, does it really works well? and with all repositories? Because I don't see it working with with all of them, like the ATI one, I might be wrong (I hope so).

[Tobster]

I did try SUSE for a week but I decided to go back to Ubuntu I think it more to do with personal taste - but in the Distro world that what makes good competition - unless you use Windows

[lzfy]

I love the KDE version of OpenSUSE, it's way better then Kubuntu. But still I use Kubuntu because I hate the package management in OpenSUSE. It's slow compared to adept, it shows a lot of dependency problems which I have to manually solve, and it gives me some weird errors. I won't switch untill they get this right.

[RebounD11]

You need to install Apt first.

http://en.opensuse.org/APT

Seems like way too much work when SMART works so well, but why not give it a go.

http://http://en.opensuse.org/Synaptic

Thanks, I'll try it now... since I've just got permission :P

BTW you overdid the http-s on the second link :)

[Incense]

Thanks, I'll try it now... since I've just got permission :P

BTW you overdid the http-s on the second link :)

Indeed I did. Opps. Oh well, you get the idea. Let us know how it goes. I thought about doing it once, but I had problems finding a recent sources.list. In my searchings I only found some for 10.1, and I wasn't really sure how to just add the standard repos.

[RebounD11]

I've successfully installed APT and Synaptic in OpenSuSE 10.3 (to test it out for those Ubuntu-ers that can't do without it, but still are willing to try out OpenSuSE :D).

The first short-coming of it was obvious from the wiki for APT installation (see link from Incense, the one with the right amount of http://-s :tongue:). You had to add the repos manually. I did so, therefore I can't tell you if either APT or Synaptic could have imported them from Yast, but since this is the way they say we should do it I would assume they couldn't.

After using both APT and Synaptic I don't know where to start. If you say Yast is slow Synaptic on OpenSuSE 10.3 is worse, and further more it sucks up all the processor power it can get. APT is no better, I can't do virtually anything while they're running.

Synaptic has old KDE apps syndrome: click and won't start... tells you it's gonna but it won't. Starts okay from the CLI though, but unless you run it from CLI you won't learn anything from it. All I got for warning messages or info messages were blank windows. I can see what it tells me in the terminal.

And about the way it runs, well it keeps telling me that certain packages are broken and keeps wanting to erase them (reinstall or upgrade won't work although they're in the repos I added). When I want to erase them, it tells me it has to erase well the rest of my most used apps (90% of the system to be more accurate) due to dependencies or because they won't work with those broken packages (which they do just fine).

So all in all, it's slow and buggy and I won't recommend it to anyone, so far. However... the current setup is rather broken (my girlfriend likes experimenting with all sort of apps), it is very bloated at the moment and pretty disorganized, so except the first two paragraphs, the rest might be because of other causes than APT and/or Synaptic. I will know more on a fresh install, but that's far away and probably the manual editing of the sources.list will put me of next time. We'll see... until than I can tell you for sure that if Ubuntu-ers or PCLinuxOS-ers will want to switch to a non-Synaptic using distro and will need/want Synaptic Fedora and Mandriva play nice with it (Fedora's I can say is faster than Ubuntu's).

Hope I could satisfy more curiosity than just mine :D

[uzybear]

What could u not get to work on it? Maybe I can help.

this IS linux right now; confused and confrontational, with nothing really totally working for anybody; we're at the juncture between super-geek OS, and everyday-consumer OS, and we're all a bit shaken by it........people actually expect the **** to work now ;) like................by itself!!! it's a hard transition.........hang in there ;)

[LuisAugusto]

Smart is better than APT. Don't take my world, just accept the facts... read the "Case Studies" in http://svn.labix.org/smart/trunk/README
Until you can say why these tests aren't valid or/and you provide other tests where APT behaves better than Smart that's something that can't be discussed.
Gustavo Niemeyer, Smart author, was APT-RPM mantainer and Synaptic co-maintainer... he dropped them to work on something *better*.

I'm aware of those "facts". But in the real world, APT is a lot better, I have use SMART PM in Fedora, Ubuntu and OpenSUSE, ATM the only thing I really miss when I use APT is the ability to update only 1 source, but I do believe it will replace APT and the others, in the future, which will be a great advantage in usuability terms (at least if they change their GUI, which is something they're doing if I remember correctly)

[RedDwarf]

After using both APT and Synaptic I don't know where to start. If you say Yast is slow Synaptic on OpenSuSE 10.3 is worse, and further more it sucks up all the processor power it can get. APT is no better, I can't do virtually anything while they're running.
Any dependency solver in a RPM based distro will use more resources than the same solver in a DEB based distro. Since RPM support "named dependencies" there are more "provides" and "requires" to take into account.
...no, this doesn't means RPM is worse than DEB.
http://duncan.mac-vicar.com/blog/archives/290
Also the APT from openSUSE is http://apt-rpm.org/ . I don't know when they forked APT, but APT-RPM development power isn't too much since the big distros don't use it. Last stable version is from 2006...


I'm aware of those "facts". But in the real world, APT is a lot better, I have use SMART PM in Fedora, Ubuntu and OpenSUSE, ATM the only thing I really miss when I use APT is the ability to update only 1 source, but I do believe it will replace APT and the others, in the future, which will be a great advantage in usuability terms (at least if they change their GUI, which is something they're doing if I remember correctly)
These tests were made in the "real world"!!! Where else? Just give me a situation that APT handles better than Smart.
About the GUI... in the future "normal" users will only use http://packagekit.org/. Whatever the distro they use they probably will use the same GUI (with different versions: GTK, Qt, etc.).

[lespaul_rentals]

Thanks

I need LAMP running locally mainly.

You do know you can install a LAMP server in the initial installation options, right?

[LuisAugusto]

These tests were made in the "real world"!!! Where else? Just give me a situation that APT handles better than Smart.
About the GUI... in the future "normal" users will only use http://packagekit.org/. Whatever the distro they use they probably will use the same GUI (with different versions: GTK, Qt, etc.).


Hey, I completely forgot that project. You're right, they may be the cross platform GUI.

However, they don't provide a service itself.

Anyway, those test are just benchmarks, when you use both of them you find that apt gives a lot less troubles with dependencies and the way to work, very simple tasks some times left SMART being not so smart.

Why? Because SMART is a "new" application, and it needs a lot polish before it can really stand daily use as APT.

[RedDwarf]

Anyway, those test are just benchmarks, when you use both of them you find that apt gives a lot less troubles with dependencies and the way to work, very simple tasks some times left SMART being not so smart.
You can say 100 times that APT is a better dependency solver and I can answer another 100 times that Smart is a better dependency solver. But right know we have some tests with very detailed descriptions (so it's reproducible and everybody can verify them) showing situations where Smart makes correct decisions and APT fails... and we don't have a single reproducible case with the opposite situation.

Some quotes from the "Case Studies":

In this section will be described real cases showing `Smart` behavior...

This case happened in a real world environment...

This is another real case...

I don't know what do you understand for "benchmarks". What we have are four cases that APT is unable to handle correctly and ZERO cases that Smart is unable to handle correctly.
Since "apt gives A LOT less troubles" and Smart "needs A LOT polish" should not be so difficult to find a case where Smart fails and explain it to us...


Why? Because SMART is a "new" application, and it needs a lot polish before it can really stand daily use as APT.
Since on December 2004 the project was 6 months old ( http://gniemeyer.livejournal.com/2004/12/08/ ) Smart is aprox. three and a half years old.
Anyway your argument is so good like mine: APT is worse than Smart... Why? Because APT is an "old" application, and when it was created the dependency solving technology wasn't so mature. It's very easy to find an explanation to any hypothesis you can think about... but, to make sense, you must prove the hypothesis before.

[LuisAugusto]

You can say 100 times that APT is a better dependency solver and I can answer another 100 times that Smart is a better dependency solver. But right know we have some tests with very detailed descriptions (so it's reproducible and everybody can verify them) showing situations where Smart makes correct decisions and APT fails... and we don't have a single reproducible case with the opposite situation.

Some quotes from the "Case Studies":




I don't know what do you understand for "benchmarks". What we have are four cases that APT is unable to handle correctly and ZERO cases that Smart is unable to handle correctly.
Since "apt gives A LOT less troubles" and Smart "needs A LOT polish" should not be so difficult to find a case where Smart fails and explain it to us...


Since on December 2004 the project was 6 months old ( http://gniemeyer.livejournal.com/2004/12/08/ ) Smart is aprox. three and a half years old.
Anyway your argument is so good like mine: APT is worse than Smart... Why? Because APT is an "old" application, and when it was created the dependency solving technology wasn't so mature. It's very easy to find an explanation to any hypothesis you can think about... but, to make sense, you must prove the hypothesis before.

All my argument resumes to this:

Have you ever use an apt based distro?

Ok, then go ahead and use SMART PM in any distro, woots, apt feels superior, sorry to brust your bubble.

I know how old SMART PM is, do you really think 3 years are much? :/

[RedDwarf]

All my argument resumes to this:

Have you ever use an apt based distro?

Ok, then go ahead and use SMART PM in any distro, woots, apt feels superior, sorry to brust your bubble.

I know how old SMART PM is, do you really think 3 years are much? :/
- If I have used an APT based distro is irrelevant.
- Which one *you* "feel" superior is irrelevant.
- How old Smart is is irrelevant.

Give a situation that APT can handle and Smart can't. It's so easy...
Since you had so much problems with Smart you just need to select one of them and explain it to us.

[RebounD11]

Give a situation that APT can handle and Smart can't. It's so easy...


He could say the same about you and Smart... :D

[RedDwarf]

He could say the same about you and Smart... :D
That was the *first* thing I did:

Smart is better than APT. Don't take my world, just accept the facts... read the "Case Studies" in http://svn.labix.org/smart/trunk/README

[RebounD11]

That was the *first* thing I did:

Sorry ... I missed that :) I'm stressed out about an exam I have in a few days (1 actually :D). It must have slipped my mind :D

[LuisAugusto]

SMART is so amazing that if there is an old package and a new package on the same repo, it shows the two of them, so when you're trying to update a lot of packages (using the only show updates), and you selct both packages, lets say 1.4, and 1.4.1, SMART isn't capable of install 1.4.1, nop, it just fails.

Not to mention it doesn't have some features APT has, as build-essential.

[Incense]

SMART is so amazing that if there is an old package and a new package on the same repo, it shows the two of them, so when you're trying to update a lot of packages (using the only show updates), and you selct both packages, lets say 1.4, and 1.4.1, SMART isn't capable of install 1.4.1, nop, it just fails.

Not to mention it doesn't have some features APT has, as build-essential.

But why would you be trying to install both packages? AFAIK, build-essential is not an OpenSUSE package, it's a debian thing.

[snakeeyes]

I have to agree apt is way better than smart or any other package management system. That is why Debian systems r more fun and easier to use, whenever u need something all u need to do is type a simple command, easy as that.

[RebounD11]

But why would you be trying to install both packages?

In his case ... to prove a point :tongue:
Seriously now, in his defense why do they both appear as updates... shouldn't the newest version only appear?

[patrickfromspain]

I installed Opensuse o couple of day ago and... I just hate it!

It looks very nice and polished, but configuring was a pain: that YAST thing isn't intuitive enough, too complicated. Configuring wifi in ubuntu was a breeze (considering both cases without network-manager, since I use static IP). The packages stuf... what the hell? There was some kind of software sources were I ticked some repos which looked nice (like de wifi drivers and compiz community maintained ones) and reloaded.. it took ages to finish! Apt is way faster! And better no talk about the Install software included in synaptic... i just plain sucks! Complicated and slow.

[LuisAugusto]

In his case ... to prove a point :tongue:
Seriously now, in his defense why do they both appear as updates... shouldn't the newest version only appear?

Yep, that's what I meant. But it does happen me a lot, when I update my KDE 4 installation I have to select around 120 packages, and I'm not going to read them all (I already know what I'm installing).

The thing is quite annoying, because if you select 120 packages and the PM fails just for one of those errors I marked, I have to do everything again, not to mention, READING packages looking for the duplicate one.

[Incense]

In his case ... to prove a point :tongue:
Seriously now, in his defense why do they both appear as updates... shouldn't the newest version only appear?

I'll play the choice card here. Maybe you don't want the latest version. On my production system, I would rather keep only stable software on my system, so it's nice that I would have the option to install the stable or cutting edge version. Anyway, I'm happy using SMART, and even using YaST at that.

[RedDwarf]

SMART is so amazing that if there is an old package and a new package on the same repo, it shows the two of them, so when you're trying to update a lot of packages (using the only show updates), and you selct both packages, lets say 1.4, and 1.4.1, SMART isn't capable of install 1.4.1, nop, it just fails.
I don't know what version are you trying. But Smart will not allow you to select two different versions of the same package if you don't explicit mark that package with the "multi-version" tag.


Not to mention it doesn't have some features APT has, as build-essential.
For sure APT has features that Smart lacks... but hasn't Smart features APT lacks? Right now I don't have an APT to test it, and has been this way for some time. But has APT mirrors support?


In his case ... to prove a point :tongue:
Seriously now, in his defense why do they both appear as updates... shouldn't the newest version only appear?
They both are updates of an installed package, so Smart behavior is correct. Not that the behavior you propose is incorrect... different users would expect different behavior.


Yep, that's what I meant. But it does happen me a lot, when I update my KDE 4 installation I have to select around 120 packages, and I'm not going to read them all (I already know what I'm installing).
When I want to update my KDE4 installation I just do "smart upgrade"... why you select them manually?


The thing is quite annoying, because if you select 120 packages and the PM fails just for one of those errors I marked, I have to do everything again, not to mention, READING packages looking for the duplicate one.
What?? When Smart fails (by example because of a file conflict not indicated in package metadata) it just says me he could not do the operation and then returns me to the main GUI... with all the changes I marked mantained. There is no need to remark them.

[Incense]

Yep, that's what I meant. But it does happen me a lot, when I update my KDE 4 installation I have to select around 120 packages, and I'm not going to read them all (I already know what I'm installing).

The thing is quite annoying, because if you select 120 packages and the PM fails just for one of those errors I marked, I have to do everything again, not to mention, READING packages looking for the duplicate one.

I will agree that it is very annoying to see SMART fail after selecting so many packages, but how often are you installing 120 packages at once? KDE 4 is just a one click install away. Don't even need to touch SMART.

http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/d/dd/Kde4-ymp.png
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4/openSUSE_10.3/KDE4-DEFAULT.ymp

[RebounD11]

I'll play the choice card here. Maybe you don't want the latest version. On my production system, I would rather keep only stable software on my system, so it's nice that I would have the option to install the stable or cutting edge version. Anyway, I'm happy using SMART, and even using YaST at that.

If current version is stable, why update it? since you want the stable one. He was talking about updates, which are meant to keep your system up-to-date :D

If you just want another version of the software, go ahead and download that and install it, or search for it in the repos, not in the updates, that is where you should only find the newest version, imo...

That's why I liked Sabayon 3.3 package manager (Kuroo I think was its name) where you could choose the version you want to update to... or downdate :tongue:

[Incense]

If current version is stable, why update it? since you want the stable one. He was talking about updates, which are meant to keep your system up-to-date :D

If you just want another version of the software, go ahead and download that and install it, or search for it in the repos, not in the updates, that is where you should only find the newest version, imo...

That's why I liked Sabayon 3.3 package manager (Kuroo I think was its name) where you could choose the version you want to update to... or downdate :tongue:

I see what you're saying. I don't use SMART for updates, so I guess I've never had that experience.

[RedDwarf]

If you just want another version of the software, go ahead and download that and install it, or search for it in the repos, not in the updates, that is where you should only find the newest version, imo...
The Smart filter says "Hide Non-upgrades". If you have package-2.0-41.2 installed both package-2.0-41.3 and package-2.0-42.2 are upgrades... so should not be hidden.
If you want to see the newest version just press the "Upgrade all packages" button and Smart will show only the newest versions.

[RebounD11]

And to think I got into this without being a smart user (Smart as in program not intelligence :D)... I think I will be though when I get back to OpenSuSE 11 (currently on Mint - like it but not so much :D)

[LuisAugusto]

I'll play the choice card here. Maybe you don't want the latest version. On my production system, I would rather keep only stable software on my system, so it's nice that I would have the option to install the stable or cutting edge version. Anyway, I'm happy using SMART, and even using YaST at that.

In apt I use force version for that, or just select that on the preferred packages.


The Smart filter says "Hide Non-upgrades". If you have package-2.0-41.2 installed both package-2.0-41.3 and package-2.0-42.2 are upgrades... so should not be hidden.
If you want to see the newest version just press the "Upgrade all packages" button and Smart will show only the newest versions.

Yep, but when someone selected both packages, smart just becomes stupid XD, when it clearly should install the newest one. Upgrade all packages, do that, updates everything, something I don't want to do, why? I have my reasons and I don't want to mark 100 packages as non-modify neither.


I don't know what version are you trying. But Smart will not allow you to select two different versions of the same package if you don't explicit mark that package with the "multi-version" tag.

I'm using the latest one available on their OpenSUSE repo (not the one thats comes with OpenSUSE).


For sure APT has features that Smart lacks... but hasn't Smart features APT lacks? Right now I don't have an APT to test it, and has been this way for some time. But has APT mirrors support?

Yes and Yes. The only feature lacking from APT is the ability to just update one repo (at least, the only I have found ATM).


They both are updates of an installed package, so Smart behavior is correct. Not that the behavior you propose is incorrect... different users would expect different behavior.

You didn't understand the problem. The point is that SMART, not just shows both version, which is bad, but it can't even resolve that simple problem, which is a pitty.



When I want to update my KDE4 installation I just do "smart upgrade"... why you select them manually?

When I update my KDE 4 installation I don't want everything to update with it.



What?? When Smart fails (by example because of a file conflict not indicated in package metadata) it just says me he could not do the operation and then returns me to the main GUI... with all the changes I marked mantained. There is no need to remark them.

Yes, normally, it does that, however, with the error I mentioned, it justs "forgets" everything I selected.

[Flyingjester]

installed opensuse a few days ago on my lappy. It's quite nice. The only trouble i've had with it is getting my wireless to work (broadcom) though it's been a fun learning experience :D

[RedDwarf]

Yep, but when someone selected both packages, smart just becomes stupid XD, when it clearly should install the newest one.

I'm using the latest one available on their OpenSUSE repo (not the one thats comes with OpenSUSE).

You didn't understand the problem. The point is that SMART, not just shows both version, which is bad, but it can't even resolve that simple problem, which is a pitty.
I understood the problem. But what I'm saying is that I can't reproduce it.
I have fileshareset-2.0-41.2 installed. So if I select "Hide Non-upgrades" and search fileshareset. I see three packages: fileshareset-2.0-372, fileshareset-2.0-372.2 and fileshareset-2.0-372.5. ".2" and ".5" packages are from opensuse-updates repository.
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4790/state0ee8.th.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=state0ee8.jpg)
If I say Smart to install fileshareset-2.0-372.2 it shows
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1460/upgrade1mx8.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=upgrade1mx8.jpg)
and when I accept it, ends in this state
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5349/state1wl3.th.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=state1wl3.jpg)
If now I select to install fileshareset-2.0-372.5 it shows
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9175/upgrade2bq7.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=upgrade2bq7.jpg)
and when I accept it, ends in this state
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7744/state2sv9.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=state2sv9.jpg)
Like you can see Smart doesn't allows you to select two versions of the same package*. If you select a new version the old one is *automatically* unselected.
I'm using smart-0.52-26.1 (x86-64) from http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/smart/

So when you say

SMART is so amazing that if there is an old package and a new package on the same repo, it shows the two of them, so when you're trying to update a lot of packages (using the only show updates), and you selct both packages, lets say 1.4, and 1.4.1, SMART isn't capable of install 1.4.1, nop, it just fails.
you are wrong. Either you are using a bad version/package/repository/whatever, so the bug doesn't exists, or the bug exists but it requires of special conditions to trigger it.


Yes, normally, it does that, however, with the error I mentioned, it justs "forgets" everything I selected.
...it is a very very very special bug. You should give enough information for others to be able to reproduce (and fix) it.


* If you don't use the multi-version tag... and in such a case you should know why you are doin so.

[snakeeyes]

Has anyone got this weird feeling that Yast works faster on gnome than on kde?

[RebounD11]

I've got the weird feeling that Yast works faster on KDE than on Gnome :D

Anyway ... Use Smart - great GUI and faster... Yast is for configuration only now :D

[Incense]

I always get a weird feeling using YaST in gnome. I think it's ugly, and more confusing then it needs to be. The QT interface is just so much cleaner and easier to navigate IMO. Looking at the new openSUSE 11 QT4 based installer I have to say I'm really excited to see what the next release is going to bring.

http://news.opensuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/installer-thumb.jpg

[snakeeyes]

I always get a weird feeling using YaST in gnome. I think it's ugly, and more confusing then it needs to be. The QT interface is just so much cleaner and easier to navigate IMO. Looking at the new openSUSE 11 QT4 based installer I have to say I'm really excited to see what the next release is going to bring.

http://news.opensuse.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/installer-thumb.jpg
I saw this a while back and yeah OpenSUSE 11 is going to be awesome, Plus I think the KDE version will have KDE 4.1 on it.

[RebounD11]

I always get a weird feeling using YaST in gnome. I think it's ugly, and more confusing then it needs to be. The QT interface is just so much cleaner and easier to navigate IMO.

I like the way Yast looks in Gnome (feels slower than KDE, but I like its looks); it seems new, improved somehow... the KDE interface is the same old... I did't see radical changes to it. I like change (in certain limits) an I like the Gnome Yast interface for a change :)

[VCSkier]

I saw this a while back and yeah OpenSUSE 11 is going to be awesome, Plus I think the KDE version will have KDE 4.1 on it.
OpenSUSE is scheduled to release June 19, but KDE 4.1 isn't scheduled to release July 29. I don't know if we'll ever get to use a stable, finished KDE 4! ;)

In all seriousness, I just tried out the latest KDE Four Live, which is based on OpenSUSE 10.3 and KDE 4.0, and I was quite disappointed. I know they've been saying that it's "not ready for production systems," but that's a gross understatement. I'm starting to wonder if KDE will be really even be generally usable before 4.1.

[RebounD11]

OpenSUSE is scheduled to release June 19, but KDE 4.1 isn't scheduled to release July 29. I don't know if we'll ever get to use a stable, finished KDE 4! ;)

In all seriousness, I just tried out the latest KDE Four Live, which is based on OpenSUSE 10.3 and KDE 4.0, and I was quite disappointed. I know they've been saying that it's "not ready for production systems," but that's a gross understatement. I'm starting to wonder if KDE will be really even be generally usable before 4.1.

I think it looks great ... and promising, needs some extra features and a little tidiness, but otherwise I love it... I even have it as default DE on my Mint install.

[Demz]

snake sounds like a guy with the nickname Kona over at fedoraforum,

[snakeeyes]

snake sounds like a guy with the nickname Kona over at fedoraforum,
Who? Me? I am not a member of the fedora forums.

[Incense]

I have to give OpenSUSE another point on the "masterpiece" scale. I needed a native install of windows on my notebook for work. So I used gparted to set up a new partition for windows (I was openSUSE only before) and went through the whole windows install with no problem. Once I rebooted I found (and yes it was a surprise) that my MBR had been taken over by windows. I used my gParted disc to boot my SuSE partition, opened YaST, went to System, Bootloader, clicked on Other, selected read partitions, and a new grub list was generated. I just had to click a box next to write to MBR, and the next time I rebooted I had grub back. Took no time at all!

It was just so simple and straight forward. No google'n, or forum searching, just a few clicks once I booted my partition. Good stuff.

[RebounD11]

I used my gParted disc to boot my SuSE partition

Quick thinking - others would panic/ignore the situation and reinstall Linux (before or after asking everywhere what happened and not waiting enough for an answer).

I would have used SuperGrub to do that and add the Windows boot to Grub. Did it before and it didn't fail me :D

[Incense]

Quick thinking - others would panic/ignore the situation and reinstall Linux (before or after asking everywhere what happened and not waiting enough for an answer).

I would have used SuperGrub to do that and add the Windows boot to Grub. Did it before and it didn't fail me :D

Don't think I've ever used SuperGrub. I actually didn't know until this go round with gParted, that I could boot my partitions from the live disc. I was just happy when it was all said and done to see my green grub screen greet me after a reboot.

[Antman]

I have to give OpenSUSE another point on the "masterpiece" scale.
******
It was just so simple and straight forward. No google'n, or forum searching, just a few clicks once I booted my partition. Good stuff.

Yeah, Opensuse does make some things real easy. I just can't wait to see version 11 and what they implement in it. :guitar:

[myke]

After reading all 17 (currently) pages of this thread, I'm even more undecided as to what to do distro wise. I've used either Kubuntu or Ubuntu since Breezy and I would agree with one thing: package management is super easy and it's definitely easy to install restricted drivers for such things as dvd playback and copy and mp3 playback and rip.

However, all the way up to Gutsy, there is no doubt (and this comes from someone who has only so far used this distro) that the upgrades are increasingly buggy and prone to causing problems. Even simple udates via adept or synaptic often cause other packages to break and it's near impossible some times to find out what little line of what little file is now off causing the problem (and trust me, i do seek forum help ... no one often seems to know any better than i do how to fix things).

I seem to have no choice but to do clean installs of K/Ubuntu at least 1-3 times between major upgrades just to keep everything running smoothly. I have to have a dual boot system due to work obligations and I do have to say I don't have near the problem out of my XP partition as I do the linux side. I love the idea of open source and want to remain with linux as my primary personal os but the constant infighting between members of each distro (seen on several posts in this thread) is old and tiresome and simply causes the linux community as a whole to fragment which inevitably leads to less likelihood of mass adoption.

At this point, I don't know what to do. I can't access any file that requires admin authority (synaptic, etc.) whether logged in as myself or using root to login to the gui as they just shut down after the icon spins and spins when attempting to launch. I dont' know what caused the problem and no one forum wise seems to be able to suggest a solution either.

Soooo ... it's either a) install K/Ubuntu for a 3rd time since Gutsy was released or b) try another distro such as OpenSuse. I"m really tired of having to do all the clean installs and just want a stable system that I can get a) restricted drivers easily installed to and b) doesn't break on every normal upgrade.

I was considering OpenSuse but after reading this thread it doesn't appear that the package management system is all that smooth. And what about restricted drivers?? K/Ubuntu does handle this easily I must say so how easy is it to install support for restricted drivers for wifi, dvd, mp3, etc. in OpenSuse??

Must I try FreeSpire of all things????? ;)

[snakeeyes]

After reading all 17 (currently) pages of this thread, I'm even more undecided as to what to do distro wise. I've used either Kubuntu or Ubuntu since Breezy and I would agree with one thing: package management is super easy and it's definitely easy to install restricted drivers for such things as dvd playback and copy and mp3 playback and rip.

However, all the way up to Gutsy, there is no doubt (and this comes from someone who has only so far used this distro) that the upgrades are increasingly buggy and prone to causing problems. Even simple udates via adept or synaptic often cause other packages to break and it's near impossible some times to find out what little line of what little file is now off causing the problem (and trust me, i do seek forum help ... no one often seems to know any better than i do how to fix things).

I seem to have no choice but to do clean installs of K/Ubuntu at least 1-3 times between major upgrades just to keep everything running smoothly. I have to have a dual boot system due to work obligations and I do have to say I don't have near the problem out of my XP partition as I do the linux side. I love the idea of open source and want to remain with linux as my primary personal os but the constant infighting between members of each distro (seen on several posts in this thread) is old and tiresome and simply causes the linux community as a whole to fragment which inevitably leads to less likelihood of mass adoption.

At this point, I don't know what to do. I can't access any file that requires admin authority (synaptic, etc.) whether logged in as myself or using root to login to the gui as they just shut down after the icon spins and spins when attempting to launch. I dont' know what caused the problem and no one forum wise seems to be able to suggest a solution either.

Soooo ... it's either a) install K/Ubuntu for a 3rd time since Gutsy was released or b) try another distro such as OpenSuse. I"m really tired of having to do all the clean installs and just want a stable system that I can get a) restricted drivers easily installed to and b) doesn't break on every normal upgrade.

I was considering OpenSuse but after reading this thread it doesn't appear that the package management system is all that smooth. And what about restricted drivers?? K/Ubuntu does handle this easily I must say so how easy is it to install support for restricted drivers for wifi, dvd, mp3, etc. in OpenSuse??

Must I try FreeSpire of all things????? ;)

Hi, OpenSUSE is awesome. Like someone else said earlier its like the OS X of the Linux world. After u install OpenSUSE then add the community repositories using Yast. Then upgrade your system. You can use SUSE's updater applet on your taskbar of updating. Now u just have to install your drivers and u r done. We use one click install for installing compiz fusion and retricted formats in opensuse. You will get used to Yast, the only problem with Opensuse's package management is everytime u open Yast2 to install packages it takes a while cause it refreshes all the repos. With 10.3 they r very few if ever dependency problems and they can be solved easily as well. Opensuse is stable as rock and u don't have to worry about a simple update crashing your system. For regular updates like I said the opensuse updater applet is running and will inform u of any new updates and that application is very very fast in my experience with upgrading your system.

[snakeeyes]

I know I am double posting but has someone used Sabayon, it looks awesome.

[Incense]

Soooo ... it's either a) install K/Ubuntu for a 3rd time since Gutsy was released or b) try another distro such as OpenSuse. I"m really tired of having to do all the clean installs and just want a stable system that I can get a) restricted drivers easily installed to and b) doesn't break on every normal upgrade.

I was considering OpenSuse but after reading this thread it doesn't appear that the package management system is all that smooth. And what about restricted drivers?? K/Ubuntu does handle this easily I must say so how easy is it to install support for restricted drivers for wifi, dvd, mp3, etc. in OpenSuse??

Must I try FreeSpire of all things????? ;)

I have never had to install restricted drivers in OpenSUSE, but from what I can tell it's pretty simple. OpenSUSE has a nice feature called the "one click install" which will add repos, and download all the files and dependicies for the package you are downloading. Restricted drivers, and codecs both have one click installs to make life easy.

http://en.opensuse.org/NVIDIA
http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats

As you've read the biggest complete in openSUSE is the package manager. It's not bad, it's just slow. I would reccomend you download and test the live cd from HERE (http://software.opensuse.org/) (KDE does rock!) and if your wireless is working, and you like the way things are working, then go ahead and install. Otherwise you could five freespire a shot, though I would recommend SiduX, Mint, or even DreamLinux over freespire. Let us know if you try out openSUSE, and tell us what you think. I've been using SuSE for years and have not really looked back. Except for the 10.1 days... those were dark times..

Cheers!

[RebounD11]

I know I am double posting but has someone used Sabayon, it looks awesome.

It's very fast too... I loved it. I quit it because of their Gentoo base (took so much to install sth) but it is a great looking and extremely fast distro.

[snakeeyes]

It's very fast too... I loved it. I quit it because of their Gentoo base (took so much to install sth) but it is a great looking and extremely fast distro.
Hey do u know what the equivalent of sudo pppoeconf in ubuntu is in sabayon? Opensuse is very easy, but in sabayon I type sudo pppoe-setup, then configure it and type sudo pppoe-start and it says its connected but I still can't browse.

[RebounD11]

Hey do u know what the equivalent of sudo pppoeconf in ubuntu is in sabayon? Opensuse is very easy, but in sabayon I type sudo pppoe-setup, then configure it and type sudo pppoe-start and it says its connected but I still can't browse.

Sorry, I have no idea.. :( I never used pppoe... however maybe the drivers for your pppoe modem are not installed correctly... I would suggest to try their forum, it's a bit technical but their ok as a community.

[myke]

Hi, OpenSUSE is awesome. Like someone else said earlier its like the OS X of the Linux world. After u install OpenSUSE then add the community repositories using Yast. Then upgrade your system. You can use SUSE's updater applet on your taskbar of updating. Now u just have to install your drivers and u r done. We use one click install for installing compiz fusion and retricted formats in opensuse. You will get used to Yast, the only problem with Opensuse's package management is everytime u open Yast2 to install packages it takes a while cause it refreshes all the repos. With 10.3 they r very few if ever dependency problems and they can be solved easily as well. Opensuse is stable as rock and u don't have to worry about a simple update crashing your system. For regular updates like I said the opensuse updater applet is running and will inform u of any new updates and that application is very very fast in my experience with upgrading your system.

I can get used to the refreshing of the repos. That would be fine. I just want to know a little more about how vast the packaging system is. The ONE big advantage of Ubuntu is the availability of just about anything built for Linux.

Like ... I need K9Copy for DVD copy, restricted drivers of course (including mp3, dvd, wmv, wma, avi, mscore fonts, etc.). I want to be able to do everything in Linux as easily as I can in XP but I also want it to be stable. This is EASILY the worst thing about Ubuntu. Bugs, bugs, and more bugs. And they carry over from upgrade to upgrade. I'd rather the upgrades be farther apart if it means more stability.

So, my question is this: it seems people are saying (at least some) that OpenSuse is more stable but does it have the vast package availability that Ubuntu does? Is the OpenSuse community helpful in finding ways to work around problems and get software that might not be in the main repos?

And could you possibly let me email you some way if I decide to try this out as I may need more pointers?

I'm downloading the kde and gnome opensuse live cd isos now to burn and try out. We'll see how it goes.

I really hate giving up a distro I've used for over 2 years but damn .... I'm sick of the stability issues and when I can honestly say that XP crashes on me less and is more stable than my Linux distro, there's a problem.

[Antman]

Like ... I need K9Copy for DVD copy, restricted drivers of course (including mp3, dvd, wmv, wma, avi, mscore fonts, etc.).


Just add the Pacman repo and you have access to all of this. :guitar:



I really hate giving up a distro I've used for over 2 years but damn .... I'm sick of the stability issues and when I can honestly say that XP crashes on me less and is more stable than my Linux distro, there's a problem.

If you're into Ubuntu, try Debian. Even the testing version of Debian (Lenny) is more stable then various *buntu builds.

[Incense]

So, my question is this: it seems people are saying (at least some) that OpenSuse is more stable but does it have the vast package availability that Ubuntu does? Is the OpenSuse community helpful in finding ways to work around problems and get software that might not be in the main repos?

If you can't find it in the repos, then you still have a chance to do a one click install from the build service,

http://software.opensuse.org/

or you can (I do this a lot) use alien to change any dep to an rpm, and just install it using SMART.


alien -r package_name.deb

The backport and community repos do have A LOT of software, most of the time sooner then Ubuntu. I had the new Amarok a week or so before kubuntu backports. I was also able to always update my KDE version with just a few clicks.

As far as the openSUSE community goes... it's not Ubuntu in that way. They do help, but the forums are not as busy (which is why so many of us hang out here) but folks are nice, and there are a lot of SuSE wiki's. I would just suggest trying it out for a couple weeks and see how you like it. I think it's brilliant. You can always come to the openSUSE forums here and ask questions, or join the openSUSE mailing list. Things are very active there, and you'll get your answers pretty fast. Same with IRC from what I understand.

[snakeeyes]

I can get used to the refreshing of the repos. That would be fine. I just want to know a little more about how vast the packaging system is. The ONE big advantage of Ubuntu is the availability of just about anything built for Linux.

Like ... I need K9Copy for DVD copy, restricted drivers of course (including mp3, dvd, wmv, wma, avi, mscore fonts, etc.). I want to be able to do everything in Linux as easily as I can in XP but I also want it to be stable. This is EASILY the worst thing about Ubuntu. Bugs, bugs, and more bugs. And they carry over from upgrade to upgrade. I'd rather the upgrades be farther apart if it means more stability.

So, my question is this: it seems people are saying (at least some) that OpenSuse is more stable but does it have the vast package availability that Ubuntu does? Is the OpenSuse community helpful in finding ways to work around problems and get software that might not be in the main repos?

And could you possibly let me email you some way if I decide to try this out as I may need more pointers?

I'm downloading the kde and gnome opensuse live cd isos now to burn and try out. We'll see how it goes.

I really hate giving up a distro I've used for over 2 years but damn .... I'm sick of the stability issues and when I can honestly say that XP crashes on me less and is more stable than my Linux distro, there's a problem.
I never used a package that was not in the repos and I think almost every Linux package available is in the OpenSUSE repos.

[Michl]

After reading this thread I downloaded 10.3 live and tried it
on my Dell latitude laptop and on a Dell 220 desktop. Had
problems running it live on the laptop (while Heron live for
same functions was flawless). On the desktop it was
better but couldn't see any advantages and didn't like
the way packages were handled.
My 2cents' worth.

[snakeeyes]

After reading this thread I downloaded 10.3 live and tried it
on my Dell latitude laptop and on a Dell 220 desktop. Had
problems running it live on the laptop (while Heron live for
same functions was flawless). On the desktop it was
better but couldn't see any advantages and didn't like
the way packages were handled.
My 2cents' worth.
You didn't like it, but it wasn't like u encountered any in stability with it is it? There was a thread a while back who had huge problems with his laptop with almost any distro he tried and we suggested him opensuse as his last resort and he hasn't had any problems since then.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=656432

Here is the post.

[Demz]

Snake, i got a question for you, if you love OpenSuse so much why do you continue to use the ubuntu Forum?

[snakeeyes]

Snake, i got a question for you, if you love OpenSuse so much why do you continue to use the ubuntu Forum?
You r a fedora user right? You r in these forums as well. I am in the suse forums all the time.

Here u go:

http://www.suseforums.net

I think users of any distro can join any forums they like can't they?

[Feudal]

Erm... not sure if I'm even entitled to an opinion yet since I've been using linux for a total of 7 WHOLE days (!) but - I'd heard about how great OpenSUSE was, tried the latest KDE version (after finally deciding to drop kick Win XP)... well - for a noobie it was VERY hard work (tho I did learn ALOT in a short space of time) - spent three days SOLID (read~ 36 hours) trying to do what it took me just 4 hours to do in Ubuntu (Gutsy).

Haven't run into any stability issues with this install yet...but clearly - my experience is very limited. What do you guys make of Dell supporting Ubuntu - promise of improvements to come?

[Demz]

You r a fedora user right? You r in these forums as well. I am in the suse forums all the time.

Here u go:

http://www.suseforums.net

I think users of any distro can join any forums they like can't they?
sure but you seem to be Pushing OpenSuse more than anything else, isnt there enough entertainment in the suse forums? if you can see from my post count i dont frequent this forum often as much as you do , just because im a fedora User i still dont Push Fedora Down peoples throats on this forum

[Antman]

Snake, i got a question for you, if you love OpenSuse so much why do you continue to use the ubuntu Forum?

The Ubuntu forums tend to attract various distro users. I find nothing wrong with that fact. This is why there is an Opensuse (and other) section of the forum. :popcorn:

[jaytek13]

sure but you seem to be Pushing OpenSuse more than anything else, isnt there enough entertainment in the suse forums? if you can see from my post count i dont frequent this forum often as much as you do , just because im a fedora User i still dont Push Fedora Down peoples throats on this forum


He's posting his opinions in the opensuse forum concerning opensuse... so what? We have a very active community here, which can't really be said for the fedora or opensuse communities. And this community doesn't turn away users based on what distro they choose to use.

Otherwise, as a Fedora user yourself, I'd be inclined to ask you what you're doing here at all... but I won't.

[Antman]

What do you guys make of Dell supporting Ubuntu - promise of improvements to come?

It's a great step for linux as a whole. :guitar:

[snakeeyes]

sure but you seem to be Pushing OpenSuse more than anything else, isnt there enough entertainment in the suse forums? if you can see from my post count i dont frequent this forum often as much as you do , just because im a fedora User i still dont Push Fedora Down peoples throats on this forum
I think its ok to push opensuse down other peoples throats in this section of the forums.
What gives u idea I am pushing it down others throats cause if I was doing that then I would hold a gun up to your head and make u use it. Thats pushing it down people's throats. So unless u see me doing that don't reply.

[Michl]

You didn't like it, but it wasn't like u encountered any in stability with it is it? There was a thread a while back who had huge problems with his laptop with almost any distro he tried and we suggested him opensuse as his last resort and he hasn't had any problems since then.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=656432

Here is the post.

The laptop is a Dell Latitude CS610 and it was loaded with
Feisty and now Gutsy, and both were very stable. The
only problem I had is getting direct rendering. I used Heron
live just to see how it would do and it found the network
wifi right away and network printer installation was easy.

With Open SUSE I had some problems with the display.
After "starting gdm" i'd get a crazy screen with eight vertical
columns of lines and distortion on the bottom. Then it would
freeze. So I rebooted and noticed that with F3 I could
change the display to a higher resolution and it loaded fine
then. It found the wifi network, but it did not locate the
sound card. Heron live did.

HAd trouble getting OpenSUSE to install the printer in the
live mode. One nice feature was that the Control
Center feature for setting the video card and 3d
acceleration. I haven't been able to set up 3d on
the ATI card in this laptop,

[myke]

I'll have to say that I did give OSS 10.3 a try. I downloaded the live cd ISOs for the Gnome and KDE versions and tried them both. Or attempted to anyway. Unlike Kubuntu or Unbuntu, the live OSS cds would not recognize something simple as my synaptics touchpad. I also have a usb wireless mouse that i use at my desk instead of the touchpad and Suse wouldn't recognize it either though both K & Ubuntu would. Was a bit dissapointing considering how good I've heard the distribution is. I had to hard shut down my laptop with both of the live OSS cds as I couldn't move the cursor around to try anything out! The touchpad or mouse wouldn't work at all with either.

One thing with K/Ubuntu that I like is the ability to easily customize panels and the main menus. Can OpenSuse do this as well? I really don't care for a bottom panel (reminds me to much of XP), prefer mine at the top and usually change it around alot and then add a side panel for particular programs I like.

I'm unsure what to do now.

[criskat777]

Wow just reading some of these post you would think Ubuntu is unusable but the truth is i have installed and used the top 15 if not 20 Distros and yes 10.3 is one of them i all most shot myself when updates and all the tricks that i did in Ubi took me about 4 Hr. sure it looked good out of the box but once i tricked it out it looked like any other ditro, but slower. To each it's own but i came to Linux running from M$ monopoly and to support a Linux Distro (FREEDOM) that is tied to the Devil (M$)is like saying i am going to hangout with the guy that carjacked me yesterday. it simply ain't going to happen. M$ does no deals in witch it gains nothing soo beware of it's hidden agenda. take the little they gave you now and we all will suffer the consequence later. And you can take that to the Bank :(
for the skeptics it was on a 6000+ X2 4GB of ram 2TB of Hard drive space 6800 gs oc 512mb ddr3. so don't give me the it must have been your harware S#!T. it's old and insulting to people that have a clue.

And another thing Linux is so Free that you can come here and say what you want and know one will flame you for the most part. Try going to a M$ site and say how buggy and vulnerable to attacks there OS'S are compared to Linux and you will see how many death threats you will receive and be banished from the site. your post removed. The comment will be, o well just another Linux nut that does not know anything. So No i will not support any (SELL OUT SOFTWARE) Novell Sofware. even if it was 2 ms faster then any real Open Source OS that has not sold it's sole to the DEVIL(M$)

[travismh]

... but i came to Linux running from M$ monopoly and to support a Linux Distro (FREEDOM) that is tied to the Devil (M$)is like saying i am going to hangout with the guy that carjacked me yesterday. it simply ain't going to happen. M$ does no deals in witch it gains nothing soo beware of it's hidden agenda. take the little they gave you now and we all will suffer the consequence later. And you can take that to the Bank :(
for the skeptics it was on a 6000+ X2 4GB of ram 2TB of Hard drive space 6800 gs oc 512mb ddr3. so don't give me the it must have been your harware S#!T. it's old and insulting to people that have a clue.

...So No i will not support any (SELL OUT SOFTWARE) Novell Sofware. even if it was 2 ms faster then any real Open Source OS that has not sold it's sole to the DEVIL(M$)
[/QUOTE]

Great thread, but I have a problem with the above quote. Might I remind you, that Canonical Ltd. also generates revenue, like Novell. Yes, Novell made a deal with MS, though now openSUSE (which is still opensource) is more compatible with MS office making users like myself, content in an environment not only for Linux horseplay, but also to use it for important things, which happens to pay the bills.

I don't know if anyone can argue the fact, that openSUSE 10.3 has a more featured desktop-oriented Linux distro than Ubuntu, in terms of being targeted at the business market. I think that's the direction it's going, this is isn't for a fifteen year old customizing this and that (though it can be done to a great extent), it's for a different audience with a different agenda

Occasionally, a business (i.e. Canonical or Novell) will have to sacrifice policy for productivity.

This thread is geared towards technical aspects and the aptitude of SUSE, not its political warfare with the Linux community.

[Incense]

So No i will not support any (SELL OUT SOFTWARE) Novell Sofware. even if it was 2 ms faster then any real Open Source OS that has not sold it's sole to the DEVIL(M$)

That's a lot of FUD there mate. To make things easy for you, here is a list of all the projects that Novell supports so you can stay away from those.

http://en.opensuse.org/Novell_Supported_Projects

[void_false]

That's a lot of FUD there mate. To make things easy for you, here is a list of all the projects that Novell supports so you can stay away from those.

http://en.opensuse.org/Novell_Supported_Projects

I think thats enough for you to stop using linux at all. :S

[snakeeyes]

I think thats enough for you to stop using linux at all. :S
LOL.......there is always GNU/Hurd though.

[RedDwarf]

or you can (I do this a lot) use alien to change any dep to an rpm, and just install it using SMART.
We even have http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Ports:/DebianBased/ where packages are automagically converted to openSUSE RPMs from debian repository.

What I have started to do recently is build my own packages in the Build Service. If you want to also support other distros it can be a little complex, but if your just want to build for openSUSE create RPM is a lot easier than what you could expect.
You just need to upload the .tar.bz2 file and a .spec file to the OBS. And the specfile is just:
- A section with name, version, description, etc.
- A %prep section where you uncompress the tar (tar xzf)
- A %build section where you make ./configure && make
- A %install section where you make make install.
- A %files section where you list teh files to be packaged.

Is very similar to compile from source normally. And this way you (and everybody) get a proper RPM. I would recommend this to anyone that is able to compile from source without problems.

More complex software could give more probems. But games and small applications... just read the manuals for a weekend and you will master the process.
http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/
http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm-snapshot/
http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Tutorial

[Demz]

I think its ok to push opensuse down other peoples throats in this section of the forums.
What gives u idea I am pushing it down others throats cause if I was doing that then I would hold a gun up to your head and make u use it. Thats pushing it down people's throats. So unless u see me doing that don't reply.
you speak so highly of it, its about as sickening as reading a Ubuntu v's fedora thread,

[p_quarles]

you speak so highly of it, its about as sickening as reading a Ubuntu v's fedora thread,
This is an OpenSUSE thread, in the appropriate sub-section of the Ubuntu Forums. What you're doing here, Demz, borders on trolling, and I advise you to quit.

Also, I advise other participants in this thread to refrain from replying to off-topic posts.

[Ripfox]

Am I allowed to "lol" at the previously mentioned "Microsuse" comment? Cuz that was funny to me. But if it's not ok then I take it back.

:-\"

[Incense]

Am I allowed to "lol" at the previously mentioned "Microsuse" comment? Cuz that was funny to me. But if it's not ok then I take it back.

:-\"

It is one of the more clever one's that's for sure. I'm just pleased that more then a year after the Novell Microsoft deal, openSUSE is still improving, and has not become the train wreck that some predicted, or vanished as others said it would. OpenSUSE 11 seems on track to be the best release yet. I had some free time today, so I was looking around at packages in the build service, and it's amazing to see all the up to date software in there. I was able to grab the most recent build of Banshee and Evolution (both are very nice BTW) and didn't have to worry about dependencies or repos.

[Antman]

I find it very nice how Opensuse tries to provide a gui for most of the Linux config stuff. Like NFS for example.
You would think that NFS would be a default option in linux distros but most seem to cater to SMB and they don't provide a way to easily share or access NFS folders.

Well, Opensuse does ;)

In Linux Mint and other distros, in order to access a NFS share on my server, I had to install NFS from the repos and drop to the command line and use the mount command and provide the path and target for the mount. Or if i want the share to automount at boot, I have to edit the fstab file.

When it came time to do it on my Opensuse box, I installed the NFS yast module and then everything was "gui-fied". I entered the server info and Opensuse let me browse the NFS shares and pick the one I wanted. It also automatically made the fstab entry for me.

Well, that was VERY nice and seems to be a glimpse of what a modern OS should do. It's little things like that that nudges Opensuse above most other distros IMHO.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do like to ticker with distros and get down and dirty sometimes and open the terminal, but it's nice to just take it easy sometimes and let the OS handle the behind the scene stuff. :popcorn:

[Ripfox]

it's nice to just take it easy sometimes and let the OS handle the behind the scene stuff


Slippery slope...;-)

[myke]

I have a couple of questions for you OpenSuse users.

First, let me say as I mentioned earlier (some of these things I've asked but didn't receive any answers for), I, based on y'all's comments here downloaded the ISOs of the kde & gnome based live OSS cds as well as the DVD install ISO so that I could try each and be ready to install if I wanted to give it a full go.

First problem ... neither live cd when booted to run I could much of anything. I have a fairly typical HP Compaq Presario M200 laptop which K/Ubuntu has never had any trouble with recognizing hardware, live cd or after installation. Yet, neither live cd would recognize my typical synaptics touch pad nor my wireless mouse when trying that as an alternative so I really couldn't do much with either and had to hard shut both live cds down. So really all I got to see was what the desktop looked like. Why would this be? I would think synaptics drivers would be a common inclusion especially since most laptops use them.

Secondly, how customizable are the panels whether they be in KDE or Gnome OSS? I don't care for the way they are set up on the live cds which is fine if I can move them around and resize at will. I like to try different icon sets and such.

Third ... One really BIG advantage I've noticed in K/Ubuntu after an upgrade a few versions back is that when removing a package Synaptic will then list any dependencies that are no longer needed as no other package loses them either so you can then remove them as well and not break anything. If you remove packages from OSS after trying them out, will you be able to get the no longer needed dependencies removed easily as well? Doing so frees up a lot of space.

Fourth ... One of my main problems with K/Ubuntu (the biggest right now) is portable drive mounting. Fat32 partitions are mounted fine as removable drives and NTFS drives (such as my portable WD Passport) are mounted fine as well. However ... in Kubuntu you can not auto-remove them and remount at will without going thru the system settings. It would be like going to a control panel in WinXP just to mount a drive instead of it auto mounting and being safely removed with the click of a mouse which XP actually does well. This seems to be a Debian problem as I've read the same thing in several other debian based distros. Unless maybe they're based on Ubuntu as so many are now. In Ubuntu with Gnome, the Passport will automount and unmount, it's just that it always appears as 2 icons on the desktop. When I unmount the drive one of them always stays on the desktop ... again ... not a huge issue ... just annoying for a grown up OSS.

Do these sort of issues present themselves in OpenSuse and RPM based distros in general? I've always used in the 2 years I've worked with Linux distros used Debian based ones. I just want to have easy access and removal to packages (including no longer needed dependencies), full mount & unmount support for my portable drives (including NTFS formatted ones), and control over the look and feel of the desktop. Again, common things even in WinXP.

So OpenSuse advocates ... what say you on these issues? I'm considering trying the full install over the weekend but I don't want to bother if such issues exist and especially if I can't even access my touchpad.

One other thing ... hardware restricted drivers ... my laptop has a D-Link Atheros based wi-fi card which Ubuntu picks up with ease and works great with Network Manager. How is wi-fi driver support with OpenSuse??

Any help or thoughts on these issues OSS advocates?? :)

[snakeeyes]

I have a couple of questions for you OpenSuse users.

First, let me say as I mentioned earlier (some of these things I've asked but didn't receive any answers for), I, based on y'all's comments here downloaded the ISOs of the kde & gnome based live OSS cds as well as the DVD install ISO so that I could try each and be ready to install if I wanted to give it a full go.

First problem ... neither live cd when booted to run I could much of anything. I have a fairly typical HP Compaq Presario M200 laptop which K/Ubuntu has never had any trouble with recognizing hardware, live cd or after installation. Yet, neither live cd would recognize my typical synaptics touch pad nor my wireless mouse when trying that as an alternative so I really couldn't do much with either and had to hard shut both live cds down. So really all I got to see was what the desktop looked like. Why would this be? I would think synaptics drivers would be a common inclusion especially since most laptops use them.

Secondly, how customizable are the panels whether they be in KDE or Gnome OSS? I don't care for the way they are set up on the live cds which is fine if I can move them around and resize at will. I like to try different icon sets and such.

Third ... One really BIG advantage I've noticed in K/Ubuntu after an upgrade a few versions back is that when removing a package Synaptic will then list any dependencies that are no longer needed as no other package loses them either so you can then remove them as well and not break anything. If you remove packages from OSS after trying them out, will you be able to get the no longer needed dependencies removed easily as well? Doing so frees up a lot of space.

Fourth ... One of my main problems with K/Ubuntu (the biggest right now) is portable drive mounting. Fat32 partitions are mounted fine as removable drives and NTFS drives (such as my portable WD Passport) are mounted fine as well. However ... in Kubuntu you can not auto-remove them and remount at will without going thru the system settings. It would be like going to a control panel in WinXP just to mount a drive instead of it auto mounting and being safely removed with the click of a mouse which XP actually does well. This seems to be a Debian problem as I've read the same thing in several other debian based distros. Unless maybe they're based on Ubuntu as so many are now. In Ubuntu with Gnome, the Passport will automount and unmount, it's just that it always appears as 2 icons on the desktop. When I unmount the drive one of them always stays on the desktop ... again ... not a huge issue ... just annoying for a grown up OSS.

Do these sort of issues present themselves in OpenSuse and RPM based distros in general? I've always used in the 2 years I've worked with Linux distros used Debian based ones. I just want to have easy access and removal to packages (including no longer needed dependencies), full mount & unmount support for my portable drives (including NTFS formatted ones), and control over the look and feel of the desktop. Again, common things even in WinXP.

So OpenSuse advocates ... what say you on these issues? I'm considering trying the full install over the weekend but I don't want to bother if such issues exist and especially if I can't even access my touchpad.

One other thing ... hardware restricted drivers ... my laptop has a D-Link Atheros based wi-fi card which Ubuntu picks up with ease and works great with Network Manager. How is wi-fi driver support with OpenSuse??

Any help or thoughts on these issues OSS advocates?? :)


Hi, OpenSUSE doesn't have all the drivers installed by default so thats the reason why your hardware may not be recognized right now. After installing it and adding the community repositories u should be able to install all the drivers u require.

All your hardware should work perfectly in OpenSUSE as far as I know. Second thing is gnome and kde r equally customizable no matter what distro u use so u shouldn't worry about that. Your touch pad will work as well.

I have not encountered this drive mounting issue u were describing on OpenSUSE, I don't know about Ubuntu or Kubuntu cause I never mounted any portable drive on them. Dependencies can be removed as well thats not a problem.

[Castar]

Secondly, how customizable are the panels whether they be in KDE or Gnome OSS? I don't care for the way they are set up on the live cds which is fine if I can move them around and resize at will. I like to try different icon sets and such.

They are as customisable as you want them to be. This is not an issue with openSUSE, but with KDE and Gnome and both are great in this aspect.


Third ... One really BIG advantage I've noticed in K/Ubuntu after an upgrade a few versions back is that when removing a package Synaptic will then list any dependencies that are no longer needed as no other package loses them either so you can then remove them as well and not break anything. If you remove packages from OSS after trying them out, will you be able to get the no longer needed dependencies removed easily as well? Doing so frees up a lot of space.

No, in openSUSE 10.3 you will have to remove the dependencies manually. I think they will try to correct this soon.


Fourth ... One of my main problems with K/Ubuntu (the biggest right now) is portable drive mounting. Fat32 partitions are mounted fine as removable drives and NTFS drives (such as my portable WD Passport) are mounted fine as well. However ... in Kubuntu you can not auto-remove them and remount at will without going thru the system settings. It would be like going to a control panel in WinXP just to mount a drive instead of it auto mounting and being safely removed with the click of a mouse which XP actually does well. This seems to be a Debian problem as I've read the same thing in several other debian based distros. Unless maybe they're based on Ubuntu as so many are now. In Ubuntu with Gnome, the Passport will automount and unmount, it's just that it always appears as 2 icons on the desktop. When I unmount the drive one of them always stays on the desktop ... again ... not a huge issue ... just annoying for a grown up OSS.

I have never had a problem with removables drives with openSUSE (KDE). Everything works as it should and is recognised immediately.


Do these sort of issues present themselves in OpenSuse and RPM based distros in general? I've always used in the 2 years I've worked with Linux distros used Debian based ones. I just want to have easy access and removal to packages (including no longer needed dependencies), full mount & unmount support for my portable drives (including NTFS formatted ones), and control over the look and feel of the desktop. Again, common things even in WinXP.

As before, the debian package system removes the un-needed dependecies more easily than an RPM system. Other than that, there is no obvious advantage. Again, mounting will work and you can customise the look and feel however you want.



One other thing ... hardware restricted drivers ... my laptop has a D-Link Atheros based wi-fi card which Ubuntu picks up with ease and works great with Network Manager. How is wi-fi driver support with OpenSuse??


So, if you install and enable the repositories during installation (there is an option for this) all hardware that is found will be installed automatically (at least that was the case with me). Unfortunately, that will mean that you will be installing extra software, as if you were using the DVD version of openSUSE. If you install from the CD without enabling the repos, maybe you will have the wifi activated. I cannot help you more because I have intel and everything was detected properly. If not installed, you can see how to setup the atheros wifi here

http://en.opensuse.org/Atheros_madwifi

with help from the one-click installation system which is quite handy.

I hope the above information helps you a little bit.

[Castar]

Sorry snake, you posted as I was writing my previous post!

[snakeeyes]

Sorry snake, you posted as I was writing my previous post!
No, problem there is a program though called rpm orphan that removes un needed dependencies I think, anyone tried it? That dependency issue will be resolved with OpenSUSE 11.0 I think as well.

[myke]

Ok. I've checked out the repositories you mentioned including Packman and they seem to be fairly well stocked. I actually reinstalled Kubuntu yesterday to see if it would fix my hardware problem but even with a clean install the bug is still there. Way to many steps just to remount a drive. Automounting drives and peripherals in general is a simple thing that should always be included as a priority. The masses will never go for the lack of plug 'n play which is needed to bring more people over to Linux.

I'm willing to try the install DVD. I have burned the full install ISO to a DVD already. My concern is will I be able to install them as when I tried both live OSS cds, I couldn't try anything out because my synaptics touchpad nor my wireless mouse would work and obviously if you can't move the mouse around, you're more or less stuck. Going thru the process of installation ... I'm concerned about wiping the drive and then not being able to complete the installation if I can't move the cursor around!!!

Is it likely the full install dvd will recognize the touchpad and/or mouse at the beginning of the install so it won't cause problems as I go thru the install or when I get it installed? If the touchpad won't work, I couldn't even get to the repositories to try and fix the problem.

BTW ... IF I try OSS and IF it works ... it might just be a lasting solution but I will say this ... it'd almost have to be with KDE (as long as the drive unmount/mount problem wasn't there as y'all say). To me, Gnome simply isn't as customizable as KDE and GTK based apps are way uglier than those based on QT. You can't even customize your toolbars with what buttons you don't and do not want on the toolbars in GTK apps but you can in QT/KDE based ones. But I digress ....

So what about the touchpad during installation? Is the installation DVD more likely to pick this up though the live cds did not?

[RebounD11]

Ok. I've checked out the repositories you mentioned including Packman and they seem to be fairly well stocked. I actually reinstalled Kubuntu yesterday to see if it would fix my hardware problem but even with a clean install the bug is still there. Way to many steps just to remount a drive. Automounting drives and peripherals in general is a simple thing that should always be included as a priority. The masses will never go for the lack of plug 'n play which is needed to bring more people over to Linux.

I'm willing to try the install DVD. I have burned the full install ISO to a DVD already. My concern is will I be able to install them as when I tried both live OSS cds, I couldn't try anything out because my synaptics touchpad nor my wireless mouse would work and obviously if you can't move the mouse around, you're more or less stuck. Going thru the process of installation ... I'm concerned about wiping the drive and then not being able to complete the installation if I can't move the cursor around!!!

Is it likely the full install dvd will recognize the touchpad and/or mouse at the beginning of the install so it won't cause problems as I go thru the install or when I get it installed? If the touchpad won't work, I couldn't even get to the repositories to try and fix the problem.

BTW ... IF I try OSS and IF it works ... it might just be a lasting solution but I will say this ... it'd almost have to be with KDE (as long as the drive unmount/mount problem wasn't there as y'all say). To me, Gnome simply isn't as customizable as KDE and GTK based apps are way uglier than those based on QT. You can't even customize your toolbars with what buttons you don't and do not want on the toolbars in GTK apps but you can in QT/KDE based ones. But I digress ....

So what about the touchpad during installation? Is the installation DVD more likely to pick this up though the live cds did not?

The touchpad worked on every laptop installation I performed of OpenSuSE 10.3. It sais at the beginning of the install... Probing for mice or sth and everythig works after that...

[Castar]

The touchpad worked on every laptop installation I performed of OpenSuSE 10.3. It sais at the beginning of the install... Probing for mice or sth and everythig works after that...

Same here; I've never had a problem with the touchpad.

[myke]

Well, I think I'll give it a go then after work tonight or at the latest on Saturday. I've actually been pretty loyal to K/Ubuntu for 2 years now but the constant bugs and lack of attention to them as if they don't matter vs plowing to the next upgrade have gotten to me.

I've been wondering how much more wipes my hard drive could take before it decided to give out. So we'll see if OSS is less buggy and I'll let you know hwo it goes. You've convinced me to give it a try. I think I'll like it if it works though I do believe it might take me a while to get used to the packaging system.

One other thing on that very subject ... since you have to remove old dependencies manually for now ... could you not just install synaptic from the repos? In a deb based distro, it will list which dependencies are no longer needed and can be removed. I wonder if you used it in OSS even if just to check on such things would it work the same?

[RebounD11]

Yes you can install Synaptic and APT 4 RPM but I'd recommend SMART with GUI. Looks better than other Package management tools I've seen and it has a lot of features. And it's faster than Yast and Synaptic in OpenSuSE.

Bottom line: use SMART because Yast (slow - for someone coming from Ubuntu's Synaptic) and Synaptic + APT 4 RPM (buggy, hard to add repos... can't import them from Yast ==> editing sources.list).

[arkara]

Novell didn't bow to them, they never accepted that Microsoft had patent claims over Linux.

Come crawling back to Ubuntu? Never, I will start using any other distro but not Ubuntu. I want to use my system without bugs and all Ubuntu is a bug filled Linux system.

then why do you keep posting on ubuntu forums???
and dude you can alway use the lts release :D

[snakeeyes]

then why do you keep posting on ubuntu forums???
and dude you can alway use the lts release :D
Wasn't this clarified a bit earlier? I am on the SUSE forums as well, but this topc is about SUSE isn't it?

What about the LTS release?

[dca]

I'll have to say that I did give OSS 10.3 a try. I downloaded the live cd ISOs for the Gnome and KDE versions and tried them both. Or attempted to anyway. Unlike Kubuntu or Unbuntu, the live OSS cds would not recognize something simple as my synaptics touchpad. I also have a usb wireless mouse that i use at my desk instead of the touchpad and Suse wouldn't recognize it either though both K & Ubuntu would. Was a bit dissapointing considering how good I've heard the distribution is. I had to hard shut down my laptop with both of the live OSS cds as I couldn't move the cursor around to try anything out! The touchpad or mouse wouldn't work at all with either.

One thing with K/Ubuntu that I like is the ability to easily customize panels and the main menus. Can OpenSuse do this as well? I really don't care for a bottom panel (reminds me to much of XP), prefer mine at the top and usually change it around alot and then add a side panel for particular programs I like.

I'm unsure what to do now.

Never had a problem w/ the wireless mouse issue. Then again, I d/l & use the full DVD vers via BitTorrent which took about the same time for the next vers release to d/l...

Gnome vers you can add top panel and 'right-click' add-to-panel and select Gnome menu from selection to get the apps/places/system back. Click 'edit menus' to move stuff all around...

[Incense]

The touchpad worked on every laptop installation I performed of OpenSuSE 10.3. It sais at the beginning of the install... Probing for mice or sth and everythig works after that...

+1, never had a problem with any of my notebook hardware and openSUSE. I'm running a Compaq Presario V4000 series, and everything from graphics, wireless, and even touch pad work great. Only teaks I need is a suspend to ram, and my touch pad is super sensitive. This list is pretty old, but it may help you see what's worked on what hardware. It helped me sort through a couple issues.

http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Laptops/Compaq

Anyway,@myke, just try it out. If you like it out. We're all going to tell you how it works out for us on our hardware, but it's really hard to say how things are going to work on yours. Here are a couple helpful tip for you though.

One Click installs of popular items such as drivers, codecs, and all that fun stuff.

http://http://opensuse-community.org/1-click-collection

Walk through of installing the SMART package manager.



su
zypper sa -r http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/smart/openSUSE_10.3/smart.repo
zypper ref smart
zypper install smart
smart channel --add http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/files/smart/opensuse-10.3.txt
smart mirror --add http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/files/smart/mirrors-eu.txt
smart update
smart install smart-gui

My own personal tip: remove Beagle during your install. At least on my system, I see a big increase in speed without beagle running.

Good luck, and have a lot of fun!

[dca]

Wasn't this clarified a bit earlier? I am on the SUSE forums as well, but this topc is about SUSE isn't it?

What about the LTS release?

LTS are supposedly less buggy by comparison to normal 18mos supported versions...

On the Kubuntu thing. Never much for Kubuntu, also, people need to realize that Ubuntu is NOT Kubuntu. Kubuntu is merely a derivative of Ubuntu. Heck, it's not even Ubuntu w/ KDE on top of it... So when people start yammering about Ubuntu being buggy I get this itch that tells me that they're actually using the Kubuntu derivative...

Guys, just use whatever works... If you want Gnome I recommend openSuSE & Ubuntu... If you want KDE-based, okay, go w/ openSuSE...

The whole mounting/umounting of USB devices in openSuSE KDE is down through the 'My Computer' dealie which is the same as putting sysinfo:/ in konquerer... You can umount from there. When plugging in you get a window that opens asking what you want to do. Gnome oS is the same as Ubuntu w/ icons on desktop provided in gconf-editor the selection is ticked for 'show volumes'...

[angryfirelord]

I tried opensuse 10.3 a week ago and I must say, it's far from being a masterpiece...

I have an Intel 3945 wireless card that works well on any distros that detect it. openSuSE loaded the correct modules for my card. However, knetworkmanager (and a few other networking utilities) don't work with my card. I found that strange because no other distro has had trouble with using NetworkManager on my 3945.

Fglrx in the suse repo is broken. I send about two hours trying to figure out why I couldn't get a widescreen resolution. I downloaded the driver from ATI and viola, it works! The suse packagers really need to test their packages better.

Finally, we have YaST. Wonderful tool, but it's such a dog. Updating repos takes at least a good two minutes, not to mention that by the time I was finished loading, I could have been using the application if I used apt-get.

I think opensuse still needs a bit more work.

[GreenMeanie]

Suse is a dog and ugly as sin!

[Antman]

Suse is a dog and ugly as sin!

My experience has been different

[p_quarles]

Suse is a dog and ugly as sin!
Good gracious.

Can we all please keep this on topic? If you feel the need to bash openSUSE, get a blog a write whatever you want.

Any further off-topic posts here will be met with less lenience.

[myke]

Hey, I think anyone who is happy with their distro should stick with it by all means. Isn't opensource about choice?? At the same time, I think the constant bickering between advocates of different Linux variants is half the reason why Linux doesn't explode as a whole onto the mass market. All of the bickering and infighting has fragmented the community. Especially the KDE vs Gnome flame war. Personally, I find KDE nicer but buggier. KDE is more customizable but Gnome is more stable. KDE simply looks better and it's apps are better but Gnome is more efficient and often 'just works'.

The strong suit that may help this fragmentation problem is the growing ability to use packages across all variants. When I've used Gnome, I still must have my KDE/QT based apps such as K3b and Amarok. They're the best. But I also prefer gEdit as my text editor and audio tag tool for tag manipulation in audio files. So ... whatever works ...

I also realize this is part of the Ubuntu forums but it also IS a thread dedicated to OpenSuse, so why must some trash the OSS evangelists? If they were bashing Ubuntu on the main Ubuntu sections and not one dedicated to OSS anyway, it would be different.

I don't know what I'll end up with but I'm going to have to try a few other things as after 2 years of using both the KDE and Gnome variants of Ubuntu, I think I can safely say it has gotten buggier. And developers working to correct the bugs has gotten slower which has allowed many of them to carry all the way from Dapper to Gutsy. That's my main reason for looking elsewhere. Who knows, maybe I'll try OSS and decide I still like Ubuntu better. Maybe not. But it is about choice .... so many Linux users forget that while bashing the other distros.

The biggest thing I'd miss if I permanently switch away from Ubuntu is package management. The ease of synaptic finding packages and it's ability to list for me what dependencies are orphans and can be removed is great. But I learn quick so we'll see.

I will ask any of you Ubuntu folks a question though that's Gnome related: how do you get Gnome to not put all of the drive icons on the desktop?? IF I were to stay with Ubuntu, it'd likely HAVE to be with Gnome as KDE via Kubuntu is to buggy for me. I'd want to kill the desktop icons on Gnome, though, as it always shows 2 icons for my portable WD Passport hard drive and even when I unmount it, one of the icons hangs around by itself on the desktop. I'd rather just stick one on the panel if possible.

[RebounD11]

then why do you keep posting on ubuntu forums???
and dude you can alway use the lts release :D

Why not post in the Ubuntu Forums? He's angry with Ubuntu, he has the right to show it. If developers watch this forum they might find out why he's so angry ==> better Ubuntu. Don't scare him away, prove him wrong then expect a counter attack... criticism is constructive and leads to improvement. IMO Ubuntu went down from 7.04 to 7.10. Feisty is so far the best Ubuntu release.

When everybody is pleased with something either the world's gone crazy or that certain something has reached perfection (or whatever perfection is for that moment). And since hardware keeps getting better software should follow, therefore perfection, if reached, lasts a pretty short time.

So, I say bring on the anger, be bloodthirsty, say out front what you don't like (here I mean what really doesn't work or could work better, not what is not Windows or Mac OS X or what not, Linux is Linux, if you don't like it don't use it, no one forces you to, but if you'd like to use it help improve it).

[snakeeyes]

Why not post in the Ubuntu Forums? He's angry with Ubuntu, he has the right to show it. If developers watch this forum they might find out why he's so angry ==> better Ubuntu. Don't scare him away, prove him wrong then expect a counter attack... criticism is constructive and leads to improvement. IMO Ubuntu went down from 7.04 to 7.10. Feisty is so far the best Ubuntu release.

When everybody is pleased with something either the world's gone crazy or that certain something has reached perfection (or whatever perfection is for that moment). And since hardware keeps getting better software should follow, therefore perfection, if reached, lasts a pretty short time.

So, I say bring on the anger, be bloodthirsty, say out front what you don't like (here I mean what really doesn't work or could work better, not what is not Windows or Mac OS X or what not, Linux is Linux, if you don't like it don't use it, no one forces you to, but if you'd like to use it help improve it).
You r right Fiesty was excellent.

[67GTA]

I installed Opensuse 10.3 on my daughter's Dell desktop last night. Ubuntu just didn't agree with it. I had always liked the look, but would always refuse to install it on my PC's because of the package manager. I have always used only Debian/Ubuntu based distros. I made myself sit down and learn opensuse. I installed apt/synaptic first. Then I got pissed and decided that I was going to learn how to use zypper(CLI). After finding info on the zypper tools, I have to say that it is just as easy as apt. With the new "one click install", and my new knowledge of zypper, I had everything updated, installed, and configured in under an hour. I still hate the Yast GUI installer, but I have to say that Opensuse is a great distro.

[Ripfox]

I will ask any of you Ubuntu folks a question though that's Gnome related: how do you get Gnome to not put all of the drive icons on the desktop?? IF I were to stay with Ubuntu, it'd likely HAVE to be with Gnome as KDE via Kubuntu is to buggy for me. I'd want to kill the desktop icons on Gnome, though, as it always shows 2 icons for my portable WD Passport hard drive and even when I unmount it, one of the icons hangs around by itself on the desktop. I'd rather just stick one on the panel if possible

System > Prefs > Removable Drives and Media

[articpenguin]

I dualboot opensuse and kubuntu. I use to use gnome but i switched to KDE. Opensuse feels more like KDE than kubuntu is.


i agree what linus says about gnome


LINUS SAYS:
This "users are idiots, and are confused by functionality" mentality of Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will use it. I don't use Gnome, because in striving to be simple, it has long since reached the point where it simply doesn't do what I need it to do.

[Incense]

I dualboot opensuse and kubuntu. I use to use gnome but i switched to KDE. Opensuse feels more like KDE than kubuntu is.


i agree what linus says about gnome


LINUS SAYS:
This "users are idiots, and are confused by functionality" mentality of Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will use it. I don't use Gnome, because in striving to be simple, it has long since reached the point where it simply doesn't do what I need it to do.

I think openSUSE's KDE is brilliant, is always has been. I'm running KDE 4.0.1 on my notebook on openSUSE, and it's already turning out very nice. I can't wait to see what they do with it in openSUSE 11.

It's a lot of fun to read the interaction between Linus and the Gnome devs. Always entertaining.

[VCSkier]

I certainly agree that OpenSUSE's implementation of KDE is excellent; possibly the best, and obviously than Kubuntu's as of 7.10. But I think OpenSUSE is weaker than Canonical's distributions in many other areas; deeper ones than DE implementation. The Ubuntu Project and it's distributions are built on a great foundation, one that I think is superior to most other distributions, but with Kubuntu, the implementation of KDE in the past simply has not been on par with OpenSUSE. I've got big hopes that this will be changing with the next release or two. :)

[snakeeyes]

I certainly agree that OpenSUSE's implementation of KDE is excellent; possibly the best, and obviously than Kubuntu's as of 7.10. But I think OpenSUSE is weaker than Canonical's distributions in many other areas; deeper ones than DE implementation. The Ubuntu Project and it's distributions are built on a great foundation, one that I think is superior to most other distributions, but with Kubuntu, the implementation of KDE in the past simply has not been on par with OpenSUSE. I've got big hopes that this will be changing with the next release or two. :)
If they do ever want Kubuntu to be at the level of Ubuntu, then they have to stop treating them as seperate distros and get both sides developers to co operate. They should merge both of them.

[Incense]

If they do ever want Kubuntu to be at the level of Ubuntu, then they have to stop treating them as seperate distros and get both sides developers to co operate. They should merge both of them.

There is an entire wiki devoted to this idea.


Ensure Kubuntu has the same functionality as Ubuntu, moving towards KDE 4 as the primary development platform.

https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHardyCatchup

[Incense]

I certainly agree that OpenSUSE's implementation of KDE is excellent; possibly the best, and obviously than Kubuntu's as of 7.10. But I think OpenSUSE is weaker than Canonical's distributions in many other areas; deeper ones than DE implementation. The Ubuntu Project and it's distributions are built on a great foundation, one that I think is superior to most other distributions, but with Kubuntu, the implementation of KDE in the past simply has not been on par with OpenSUSE. I've got big hopes that this will be changing with the next release or two. :)

I for one be interested in hearing the ways that openSUSE is weaker.

[snakeeyes]

I certainly agree that OpenSUSE's implementation of KDE is excellent; possibly the best, and obviously than Kubuntu's as of 7.10. But I think OpenSUSE is weaker than Canonical's distributions in many other areas; deeper ones than DE implementation. The Ubuntu Project and it's distributions are built on a great foundation, one that I think is superior to most other distributions, but with Kubuntu, the implementation of KDE in the past simply has not been on par with OpenSUSE. I've got big hopes that this will be changing with the next release or two. :)
I would be interested in that as well.

[Antman]

I would be interested in that as well.

+1

[MONODA]

I would be interested in that as well.
did not recognize my wireless card which ubuntu did perfectly. No matter how much i look i cant find out how to enable compiz. The installer is no where near as easy to use as ubuntu is for people like me (have only used linux for about 5 months.) I am pretty sure many will disagree but that is my opinion.

[VCSkier]

I for one be interested in hearing the ways that openSUSE is weaker.
It's certainly just my opinion, and I've only been using OpenSUSE for about six months, so my opinion obviously isn't authoritative by any means.

I think the most obvious weakness, as has been discussed already, is the package and repository management. In my experience, their repositories are thinner, forcing you to often rely on third party repositories, which can introduce issues. With Ubuntu, everything I need is in main, universe, restricted, multiverse, and partner.

I also think Ubuntu's regular release cycle is ideal, as well as having a specific release every two years that focuses primarily on stability and completion.

There are lots of other little unique niceties too. Ubuntu's automatic codec retrival is marvelous, as well as the restricted drivers manager.

In my experience, the hardware detection and support is also superior in Ubuntu. The "it just works" factor of Ubuntu is amazing, but YYMV.

Lastly, being Debian based and compatible is a huge advantage. Debian package binaries are available everywhere for everything, and they are fast and always ready to go.

OpenSUSE is great; I use it and appreciate it. It has some advantages and it may be better for some people, but it also has some disadvantages, which I feel are bigger and more long term problems, and least for my usage. I know that not everyone will agree, but if Kubuntu cleans up their KDE, I would much rather use it.

[Incense]

did not recognize my wireless card which ubuntu did perfectly. No matter how much i look i cant find out how to enable compiz. The installer is no where near as easy to use as ubuntu is for people like me (have only used linux for about 5 months.) I am pretty sure many will disagree but that is my opinion.

It's a very valid opinion, no matter how many people agree or disagree with it. So no worries there. The new openSUSE live CD's have an installer that is on par with ubiquity, but I can see how YaST on the DVD can be a bit overwhelming.

Compiz, don't like it, don't use it, but for those who do, the following link will get you a one click for compiz, and your video card.

http://opensuse-community.org/1-click-collection

Wireless is frustrating. Not sure what you got, but if you (or anyone else) wanted to have a go at it again, check the page below for help on installing drivers. Maybe 11 will have it in by default.

http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Network_Adapters_(Wireless)

[lespaul_rentals]

did not recognize my wireless card which ubuntu did perfectly. No matter how much i look i cant find out how to enable compiz. The installer is no where near as easy to use as ubuntu is for people like me (have only used linux for about 5 months.) I am pretty sure many will disagree but that is my opinion.

Different distros favor different hardware. It doesn't mean that openSUSE sucks while Ubuntu is better just because the latter automatically recognizes your wireless card. It just means that one suits your hardware better. YaST isn't hard, in my opinion. It just takes some getting used to. I'm sure you could have said that Synaptic is difficult compared to the Windows way of doing things back when you first tried Ubuntu.

[Incense]

It's certainly just my opinion, and I've only been using OpenSUSE for about six months, so my opinion obviously isn't authoritative by any means.
.

SNIP

First, thank you for giving an intelligent and well thought out response. It is far too often the "reason" has something to do with Novell or MS. You're points are very valid I must say. It is very frustrating in gnome to play an MP3, and be sent to a page that tells very little about getting the codec. The One Click Install for Codecs doesn't seem to work very well for gstreamer codecs ether. On my hardware, openSUSE does a better job then Ubuntu these days, but when it was dapper and 10.1, dapper was the clear winner. It always make me wonder though, why the different distros detect hardware differently. (Try saying that five times fast!)

Debian is everywhere, and there are many packages that I have to Alien into RPM's. This was not always the case though.For a long time RPMs were eaiser to find then DEBs. Ubuntu has changed the playing field quite a bit. For the most part most things I need are in the official or community repos, including many up to date packages that Ubuntu won't get until the next release. But that's trivial.

Again, thanks for a well thought out reply! I hope some of the openSUSE devs see your post. Cheers!

[MONODA]

Different distros favor different hardware. It doesn't mean that openSUSE sucks while Ubuntu is better just because the latter automatically recognizes your wireless card. It just means that one suits your hardware better. YaST isn't hard, in my opinion. It just takes some getting used to. I'm sure you could have said thIt Synaptic is difficult compared to the Windows way of doing things back when you first tried Ubuntu.
I am not saying it sucks i am just saying it is not as good as ubuntu. I probably only think this becuase I never really gave OpenSuSE much time to learn (which is why i am now installing it in virtual box) and yes i understrand that different distros detectr hardware differently (lol). By thw way I dont remember ever finding ubuntu hard to use in fact I found everything much easier to do in ubuntu much easier than in windows. Even the terminal wasnt that hard to use because I immidiatly started learning bash.

[myke]

Due to the mountain of problems I've had under Gutsy, I've given serious thought to moving to another distro. So lots seem to think OpenSuse is the best RPM based distro for the average user. I downloaded the live CDs for both Gnome and KDE (preference is for KDE) and couldn't get either to work as neither picked up the touchpad nor the usb wireless mouse on my laptop so I couldn't even attempt anything with it as the cursor was not usable due to the aforementioned.

And there isn't much use in trying another debian distro as it seems many of them are becoming ubuntu based on top of debian so what would be the point.

I've decided I'm down to two options: a) Install OSS 10.3 and give it a whirl. b) Move up to the K/Ubuntu Hardy alpha and hope I have better success than with Gutsy. Again, I've always loved this distro as have been doing great since Breezy. A problem here and there to be sure but never the constant crop of headaches I've had with Gutsy. The alpha of Hardy might be better than the stable Gutsy for me at this point.

I wouldn't have near as much indecision with at least giving OSS a chance were it not for the multitude of comments I've read here and elsewhere about how much more of a pain rpm based distros are package management wise. The nicest thing about K/Ubuntu is how easy it is to get everything from restricted drivers to multimedia codecs to win fonts, etc.

[snakeeyes]

I don't have any idea why your touchpad isn't working, try the normal install cd's cause I usually install with those as for most drivers in suse u have to add repos after or during installation to get them working, your hardware must be supported as almost all distros support the same amount of hardware as most of hardware support comes from the kernel.

[myke]

Yes, it is odd that my touchpad won't work with the live cds on my laptop. I burned a gnome one and a kde one and both wouldn't work. However, I did boot up the kde live cd on my tower at work one day and played with it a bit but it was just for a short while. More like backing down the driveway versus taking it for a spin around the block. I know I'm likely looking at a clean install (again) no matter what I decide but I hate to do it twice in short order so I've got a decision to make. It's either go with OSS 10.3 or move up to Kubuntu Hardy alpha. Hmmmm.....

[snakeeyes]

try the regular cd's cause opensuse usually gives u a lot of software by default which u end up installing so Novell may have reduced the drivers available by default in the live cd.

Its the first time they made live cd's so they r not used to and do have some problems on them as far as I know.

Here r 2 forums to help u out:

http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de

http://www.suseforums.net

[Griff]

Hmm. I feel like the odd man out. I've been using opensuse 10.3 for almost 2 months now on another machine and I don't care for it one bit. SLAB is annoying as heck to navigate. Anything I need to do administratively (through a gui, anyway) is done through that giant Yast2. And why o why wasn't yum installed by default??

Anyway, I do really like the documentation for it. Not online but within the install itself. It's made a few things much easier to figure out.

[jdkchem]

Hmm. I feel like the odd man out. I've been using opensuse 10.3 for almost 2 months now on another machine and I don't care for it one bit. SLAB is annoying as heck to navigate. Anything I need to do administratively (through a gui, anyway) is done through that giant Yast2. And why o why wasn't yum installed by default??

Anyway, I do really like the documentation for it. Not online but within the install itself. It's made a few things much easier to figure out.

You're not alone. I finally got fed up with opensuse and decided to switch to Linux Mint.

As for opensuse, the updater is terrible. And what really aggravated me the most was the slow software install process. Compare the time it takes for opensuse to update it's repositories to Ubuntu or Fedora. On top of that the process windows pop up over whatever you are doing, so, at least in gnome, while you are waiting for the repo's to update you have windows continually popping up in your way.

[Castar]

Why not remove the SLAB menu? The traditional Gnome menu is there along with the Gnome Menu Bar.

Besides, it is truly KDE (thus far) that shines in openSUSE so if you're open to DEs that's what I would give a go first.

[moopere]

How can u compare Hitler with a company?

Its a simile mate; you missed this last time he did it as well. Sort of along the lines of:

"All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"

Cheers,
Craig

[itsjustarumour]

I really like Novell's OpenOffice. It's one of the reasons I use OpenSUSE.

+1 to agree that openSUSE has the best implementation of OpenOffice. I use Ubuntu most of the time for "fun", but for REAL work (ie, a professional direct desktop replacement for MS Windows) I think nobody else comes close to openSUSE. I've also found that a lot of things just seem to somehow run faster and more smoothly on openSUSE than on Ubuntu - Google Earth, OpenOffice Writer and Flash Plugins being examples that spring to mind.

[Northsider]

I just live-booted openSUSE 10.3. I must say this distro looks great, I was very impressed. I love KDE and I think openSUSE uses that very well.

I am just concerned about switching over and getting the same high level of support for it that I do with Ubuntu here. Also, is the learning curve higher for openSUSE than with Ubuntu?

[67GTA]

I honestly didn't have as many problems with opensuse as I did with Kubuntu. What few problems you might have will be answered on the opensuse forums or in this section of the Ubuntu forums. The biggest obstacle is learning to use Yast. Everything is basically done from Yast. There are very well written wiki pages for every aspect of opensuse http://en.opensuse.org/HOWTOs You can reach most of them from this link. The one feature that brought me back to opensuse was the one click install http://software.opensuse.org/search I never liked the Yast software installer, but it is a minor annoyance when compared to the rest of opensuse. I stayed with Kubuntu for the last four releases, and just got tired of the bugginess. Opensuse is rock solid and very professional. The opensuse devs put a lot of work into making it that way. It is my favorite distro with any desktop environment.

[67GTA]

I always said I didn't like the opensuse software installer, but I've made myself use it lately. It is slower than apt/synaptic, but it is a lot more complex, and feature rich. It has kind of grown on me. If you turn off the automatic repo updating(refreshing) everytime you open it, it is pretty fast.

[Erunno]

The only thing I really miss from in the Yast installer is the ability to prioritize repositories and stay with it (i.e. don't switch installation sources unless explicitly told). But judging from some of the news over at news.opensuse.org some major improvements are on the way for openSUSE 11.