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ade234uk
January 8th, 2008, 11:22 AM
I don't care which is better Gnone, KDE, XFCE it's making open source better for the future, and giving general users a viable option to move away from Windows. The more people switch the more support we will get from Manufacturers.

I remember installing Mandrake9 5-6 years ago, and fighting with the damn thing for 2 days trying to get my NVidia card recognised. Move forward to today, and you can really appreciate how far things have progressed.

It's all good news, and I am really looking forward to giving KDE4 a spin.

Unfortunately I am still stuck in Windows land, but it wont be long before I can one day migrate full time.

TheOrangePeanut
January 8th, 2008, 11:34 AM
I want to like KDE, I really do, but the naming scheme throws me off every time I give it a chance. I can't stand a K to be in front of every single application; it makes it hard to read. I guess I'll stick with Gnome until they started prefixing everything with a G, then I'll switch to XFCE :-p

Dixon Bainbridge
January 8th, 2008, 12:13 PM
Is KDE4 going to stop being a buggy, bloated piece of crap that crashes every five minutes? Sick of that application error you get in KDE everytime you dare to open and close applications. Its like being in windows.

Kingsley
January 8th, 2008, 12:24 PM
I want to like KDE, I really do, but the naming scheme throws me off every time I give it a chance. I can't stand a K to be in front of every single application; it makes it hard to read. I guess I'll stick with Gnome until they started prefixing everything with a G, then I'll switch to XFCE :-p
You can edit the program names to anything you want.

Nevon
January 8th, 2008, 12:25 PM
Is KDE4 going to stop being a buggy, bloated piece of crap that crashes every five minutes? Sick of that application error you get in KDE everytime you dare to open and close applications. Its like being in windows.

That's the impression of KDE that I've gotten too. When I used OpenSuse 10.3 I had to struggle with applications crashing over and over again, all the time. When I tried the live cd of KDE4 stuff crashed on me. Sure, that's just the second release candidate, but it's close to being finished now.
I also prefer the gnome look over KDE3 - However, KDE4 has some pretty slick features.
I've never programmed a graphical application, so I've never used either toolpack. But from what I've heard, the qt toolpack is supposed to be "better" - Faster, more structured, and more stable. Any truth in this?

forrestcupp
January 8th, 2008, 01:02 PM
I want to like KDE, I really do, but the naming scheme throws me off every time I give it a chance. I can't stand a K to be in front of every single application; it makes it hard to read. I guess I'll stick with Gnome until they started prefixing everything with a G, then I'll switch to XFCE :-p

Well, it's not just KDE that has stupid naming schemes; it's the whole open source world. Just look at OpenOffice, and GnuCash. Everything has to start with "open" or "Gnu." Real cute. It's just one more way to see that open source developers are great at programming, but horrible at promotion and artistic things.

fish2ways
January 8th, 2008, 01:08 PM
KDE is good for open source. Innovation, user control, flexibility and the freedom to configure. That's what KDE is all about
KDE, Gnome, XFCE.........etc. None of them are "the best"
Open source is about choice and the freedom to choose. I personally find KDE provides those options much more so than Gnome and the others.
I used Gnome exclusively for a 18 months or so, but became frustrated with it's lack of configuration options.
I'm now using KDE again and feel I'm back in charge with the freedom to change as much or as little as I want to.
Plus I lost some confidence in Gnome after reading this article via Slashdot:
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/11/161252

KDE4? Bring it on!

capink
January 8th, 2008, 03:20 PM
I want to like KDE, I really do, but the naming scheme throws me off every time I give it a chance. I can't stand a K to be in front of every single application; it makes it hard to read. I guess I'll stick with Gnome until they started prefixing everything with a G, then I'll switch to XFCE :-p

I think this is about to change. All the new things in kde4 does not start with k. Like plasma, dolphin, lancelot, systemsettings, phonon ..... etc.

Johnsie
January 8th, 2008, 03:36 PM
I'm a gnome user but think it's nice that users get a choice because everyone has different tastes :-)

GeneralZod
January 8th, 2008, 03:50 PM
Plus I lost some confidence in Gnome after reading this article via Slashdot:
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/11/161252


Read this:

http://www.linux.com/feature/123597

The media are attempting to portray KDE as angels and GNOME as devils when neither is the case.

wieman01
January 8th, 2008, 03:55 PM
Is KDE4 going to stop being a buggy, bloated piece of crap that crashes every five minutes? Sick of that application error you get in KDE everytime you dare to open and close applications. Its like being in windows.
I can't confirm that. I have been using KDE for years, and - albeit occasional crashes - it does a pretty good job. The naming scheme is fairly bad I agree, but bloated piece of c...? I don't think so. At least not for the majority of users.

zekopeko
January 8th, 2008, 04:05 PM
isn't GNOME only watching from the sidelines OOXML? SO that it can implement it later with ease?

tikal26
January 8th, 2008, 04:26 PM
Is KDE4 going to stop being a buggy, bloated piece of crap that crashes every five minutes? Sick of that application error you get in KDE everytime you dare to open and close applications. Its like being in windows.

Whoaaa. Have you tried KDE lately. Maybe you tried Kubuntu 4.10 release. that was Buggy would crash all the times and might have seem bloated to some. Kubuntu has gotten better and better over time and hardly crashe anymore. My windos loving sisster ( and linux hater) loves how my computer never crahses. The one day I had too many programs open Firefox became unresponsive and she was amazed that Liunux actually crashed. Kkde 4.0 I think would be alittle bit buggy, but it is leaner and faster nd its not that buggy , is not a crash fest, but many bugs might be things that work they way you expect them to.

exactopposite
January 8th, 2008, 05:09 PM
Is KDE4 going to stop being a buggy, bloated piece of crap that crashes every five minutes? Sick of that application error you get in KDE everytime you dare to open and close applications. Its like being in windows.

but............... it hasn't even been released yet. they built a whole new desktop environment from the ground up so it's gonna have some bugs at first. once it has had time to mature it will be great.

Lostincyberspace
January 8th, 2008, 06:01 PM
Is KDE4 going to stop being a buggy, bloated piece of crap that crashes every five minutes? Sick of that application error you get in KDE everytime you dare to open and close applications. Its like being in windows.
Thats one of the windows like features they have that makes people feel comfortable.

In all seriousness they I have no problem with other people using KDE I personally use Gnome since I think it is more progressive rather than design than KDE.

Linuxratty
January 8th, 2008, 08:53 PM
Is KDE4 going to stop being a buggy, bloated piece of crap that crashes every five minutes? Sick of that application error you get in KDE everytime you dare to open and close applications. Its like being in windows.

.My KDE has never had those kinds of problems and Ive used it over two years.
I get no app errors since leaving Linspire and Freespire, and not many even then.. And KDE has crashed maybe five times in three years of use.

mehaga
January 8th, 2008, 10:06 PM
Is KDE4 going to stop being a buggy, bloated piece of crap that crashes every five minutes? Sick of that application error you get in KDE everytime you dare to open and close applications. Its like being in windows.

I switch between Gnome and KDE all the time, but I am using KDE at the moment, looking at its really nice desktop... and the only peace of crap I see is the post I just quoted.

I've heard people talk about a DEs in a bad way before, and I never replied because I hate flames. But calling something '...peace of crap...' is rude enough to deserve this kind of answer.

Kernel Sanders
January 8th, 2008, 10:14 PM
Is KDE4 going to stop being a buggy, bloated piece of crap that crashes every five minutes? Sick of that application error you get in KDE everytime you dare to open and close applications. Its like being in windows.

I can't believe so many people are having trouble understanding what's being said? :confused:

Dixon is talking about his experience with the latest KDE4, and you lot are trying to rebut him with your experience of KDE over the years? It's an absolute non sequitur. Your opinions of KDE3 and previous are irrelivant to his opinion on a totally different version of KDE.

It's akin to me saying Vista isn't crap, because I had an excellent experience with Windows 2000.

From what i've seen KDE4 is unfinished, and needs much more work before it becomes a fully usable release. Considering KDE3 isn't exactly lacking, why the rush to hit 4.0.0 at the expense of stability, speed and usability?

PriceChild
January 8th, 2008, 10:17 PM
KDE4 will eat your children. (http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/01/talking-bluntly.html)

dasunst3r
January 8th, 2008, 10:22 PM
I tried KDE4 not long ago, and I left with a sour taste in my mouth as many components were missing. I'd leave it to bake for another couple months.

GeneralZod
January 8th, 2008, 10:34 PM
I can't believe so many people are having trouble understanding what's being said? :confused:


I have to say, that interpretation didn't even occur to me, but I'm kicking myself now that you've mentioned it :) I'm guessing the other people who responded didn't think of it in those terms, either. Which is understandable, as many people on these forums have said almost exactly what Dixon said about KDE3.

capink
January 8th, 2008, 11:33 PM
I tried kde once when I started using linux. I appreciated all the power it gives to the user but I was uncomfortable for the following reasons:

1. Konqueror, while a very powerful file manager, was to much for me. I needed a simple one like thunar.

2. Kicker.

3. For me, it looked cluttered. I know some kde fans hate hearing that and will argure to the contrary. But to each his own. I never liked the arrangement of the menus and icons. I tried tweaking them to my liking but was not satisfied.


Now, after playing with the kde4 beta all of this is history for me. I will convert to kde4 once it becomes more stable and more devs port their applications to it.

The only thing I am not yet comfortable with is the new menu. But I guess this will not be an issue, as the main concept behind plasma is to be able to easily change such things by means of plasmoids. And it can be done via scripting languages like python. So, I guess plenty of alternative will pop up in the future.

forrestcupp
January 9th, 2008, 02:55 PM
From what i've seen KDE4 is unfinished, and needs much more work before it becomes a fully usable release. Considering KDE3 isn't exactly lacking, why the rush to hit 4.0.0 at the expense of stability, speed and usability?
But to be fair, KDE3 wasn't always at the 3.5.8 level. There was a time when it was KDE 3.0.0, and I'm sure many people were wondering why they don't just stick with KDE2 until KDE3 gets more mature. A brand new, complete makeover version will never become fully usable until they get it out there and it has time to mature.

The good thing about it is that they are not going to completely stop development on the KDE3 line, and everyone has a choice on whether to switch or not.

Xbehave
January 9th, 2008, 04:04 PM
"I can't believe so many people are having trouble understanding what's being said?"
perhaps he should be clearer
kde4 is less 'bloated' than kde3 (taking memory use as a gauge of bloat)
kde3 is less 'bloated than gnome (taking memory use as a gauge of bloat)

either way hes talking crap
gnome user "i dont like kde" ok
GU:"i prefer the gnome interface, kde is cluttered" ok
GU:"kde has a horrible interface" please be quite as people have different tastes
IDIOT:"kde is a bloated piece of crap" please STFU as kde uses less resources than gnome and many people like it
LINUS:"the gnome devs are nazis"

o wait that last quote just slips in whenever a gnome zealot pisses me off

ErikTheRed
January 10th, 2008, 08:25 PM
3. For me, it looked cluttered. I know some kde fans hate hearing that and will argure to the contrary. But to each his own. I never liked the arrangement of the menus and icons. I tried tweaking them to my liking but was not satisfied.

The beauty of KDE is the ability to customize everything. I use kde and I typically have a very clean, uncluttered setup. But I have also seen some pretty messy ones too. So if you have the time to tinker with options you can really get KDE looking very steamlined.

Montsegur87
January 10th, 2008, 10:00 PM
I have kde core instaled only for K3b and Amarok. I tried KDE , GNOME And XFCE and I use XFCE as its lightweight.

I'm waiting for KDE 4 so I can use some apps in XP.

Linuxratty
January 10th, 2008, 10:19 PM
I want to like KDE, I really do, but the naming scheme throws me off every time I give it a chance. I can't stand a K to be in front of every single application; it makes it hard to read. I guess I'll stick with Gnome until they started prefixing everything with a G, then I'll switch to XFCE :-p

I don't even notice the naming scheme...it does not phase me one way or the other.
Ive used KDE from my first Linux and i will continue to use it.

lzfy
January 11th, 2008, 12:22 AM
I starded with KDE (Mandrake) and HATED it! Didn't ever wanna use it again. Then I started to use Gnome and I loved it, but after a while it started to feel boring. I like to customize my desktop and I was limited with Gnome. Then after 2-3 years I gave KDE another chance and since then I'm using it. I still don't know why I didn't like KDE the first time. Maybe it had to do with the fact that the distro didn't came with QT only apps which gave a wrong impression.

I too don't have a problem with the naming scheme, ok it could be better but seriously who cares.

Btw, anyone knows when the Kubuntu packages of KDE will be available? I don't want to wait for the next version of Kubuntu to use KDE4.

Somenoob
January 11th, 2008, 12:25 AM
Today the dream becomes reality

wieman01
January 11th, 2008, 09:22 AM
Today the dream becomes reality
What dream?

Arkenzor
January 11th, 2008, 11:52 AM
Btw, anyone knows when the Kubuntu packages of KDE will be available? I don't want to wait for the next version of Kubuntu to use KDE4.

They're currently available in gutsy-backports. Simply search for "kde" in Synaptic, sort the results by version and install all the packages with version 4:4.0.0

lzfy
January 11th, 2008, 12:04 PM
They're currently available in gutsy-backports. Simply search for "kde" in Synaptic, sort the results by version and install all the packages with version 4:4.0.0

Thanks, installing now :)

SunnyRabbiera
January 11th, 2008, 12:16 PM
me I will wait this out, till kde4.1

GeneralZod
January 11th, 2008, 12:24 PM
http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/

bufsabre666
January 11th, 2008, 12:34 PM
ive had this day marked on my calender for a while, im glad kde 4 is official

wh0rd
January 11th, 2008, 12:53 PM
ive had this day marked on my calender for a while, im glad kde 4 is official

LOL. Same here, I've been waiting for this day really patiently.

shafin
January 11th, 2008, 01:24 PM
KDE Project Ships Fourth Major Version of cutting edge Free Software Desktop

With the fourth major version, the KDE Community marks the beginning of the KDE 4 era.
January 11, 2008 (The INTERNET).
The KDE Community is thrilled to announce the immediate availability of KDE 4.0 (http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/). This significant release marks both the end of the long and intensive development cycle leading up to KDE 4.0 and the beginning of the KDE 4 era.


Source (http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/)



This is a great achievement by the KDE community. My Congrats to them.

Gigamo
January 11th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Maybe now I will finally try out KDE as a whole :). KDE4 seems really interesting.

snakeeyes
January 11th, 2008, 01:30 PM
When r the Kubuntu packages coming, KDE 4 looks amazing, they even fixed that ugly taskbar. Please reply quickly if u know.

nrs
January 11th, 2008, 01:34 PM
While I can understand not wanting to make 4.0 your official DE, considering it's free-software and a community project, I think anyone who intends to use the series in the future should make at the very least, a minimal effort to flush out bugs in 4.0.

shafin
January 11th, 2008, 01:39 PM
When r the Kubuntu packages coming, KDE 4 looks amazing, they even fixed that ugly taskbar. Please reply quickly if u know.
They're currently available in gutsy-backports repository. Simply search for "kde" in Synaptic, sort the results by version and install all the packages with version 4:4.0.0

K.Mandla
January 11th, 2008, 01:39 PM
When r the Kubuntu packages coming, KDE 4 looks amazing, they even fixed that ugly taskbar. Please reply quickly if u know.
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/gutsy/kde4/

shafin
January 11th, 2008, 01:41 PM
They're currently available in gutsy-backports repository. Simply search for "kde" in Synaptic, sort the results by version and install all the packages with version 4:4.0.0
oh,and official instructions from the kubuntu guys:
http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.php

Be Free with KDE 4.0

http://kubuntu.org/images/kde-4.0.png
The KDE 4 series has begun with the release of 4.0. It is the start of something amazing.
If you want to test KDE 4 without installing packages download the live CD (554MB) (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/gutsy/kde4/).
Packages are available for 7.10 (Gutsy) and our development Hardy version. They install to /usr/lib/kde4 and can be installed alongside your existing KDE 3.
Instructions:


Remove previous KDE 4 packages, they are not compatible (apt-get remove kdelibs5 kde4base-data kde4libs-data)
Add deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu gutsy main to your /etc/apt/sources.list
Install kde4-core, note that PPAs aren't authenticated so you will likely get a warning when installing
KDE 4 apps should appear in your KDE 3 K-menu or you can run a full session by selecting "KDE 4" from your login manager.
To avoid having to start a second X server for a full session install xserver-xephyr and run Xephyr :1 then and run /usr/lib/kde4/bin/startkde in the Xerphyr xterm. Thanks to stdin for his help with these packages.

nrs
January 11th, 2008, 01:43 PM
No matter what the developers intended this to be, there will be detractors who are only concerned with what they wanted it to be, that their vision (and there are thousands) wasn't met. Here's hoping the developers aren't easily discouraged and go on to turn it into a great series, I think you already have to be a pretty thick hide to develop free-software.
..

shafin
January 11th, 2008, 01:46 PM
Kubuntu Live CD (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/gutsy/kde4/kubuntu-kde4.0-i386.iso)
OpenSUSE Live CD (http://home.kde.org/%7Ebinner/kde-four-live/KDE-Four-Live.i686-1.0.iso)

oedipuss
January 11th, 2008, 02:15 PM
They're currently available in gutsy-backports repository. Simply search for "kde" in Synaptic, sort the results by version and install all the packages with version 4:4.0.0

For some reason kde4 and kde4-core version is 3.3 :confused:

snakeeyes
January 11th, 2008, 02:18 PM
I think I am going to wait for a week atleast cause let every thing settle down cause it just got released. What do u all think?

shafin
January 11th, 2008, 02:29 PM
For some reason kde4 and kde4-core version is 3.3 :confused:
Add deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu gutsy main To software sources and then try again.

Incense
January 11th, 2008, 02:29 PM
I'm stoked! I can't wait to see the final product!

kvonb
January 11th, 2008, 03:07 PM
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awakatanka
January 11th, 2008, 03:27 PM
Looking good, only hate the big black bar and the ugly background. But everything was working smooth on the kde4live from suse. Installing kde4 now with hardy to see how it is on kubuntu.

Prisma
January 11th, 2008, 03:35 PM
the new KDE 4.0 looks insanely buggy and unstable, (those icons look ugly as ever, typical of KDE puag! I was told they were improving those :( )
However I will give it a try on virtualbox. I don't want to mess up with my computer.

kvonb
January 11th, 2008, 03:37 PM
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adityakavoor
January 11th, 2008, 03:48 PM
The KDE 4 series has begun with the release of 4.0. It is the start of something amazing.

Click here (http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.php)

Mr. Picklesworth
January 11th, 2008, 03:55 PM
Well, congrats KDE folks! This release has lots of potential. Maybe it will be as well noticed amongst the general audience (and non-audience) as one of Firefox's releases is...

As for me, I'll try to hold out until KDE 4.1. Don't want my first thoughts damaged, and it sounds like there are still a few known issues here. Then again, if Hardy will have it in the repositories, I may be doomed to trying 4.0 some time anyway...

I am still not a big KDE person (I'm too much obsessed with Glade, and I have a strong feeling of viral license claustrophibia), but I really like the innovation and movement forward being done here. Removing the "desktop is a folder" metaphor is a gutsy and much-needed move. It has always baffled me in GNOME that Nautilus has an enormous hunk of code devoted to rendering the desktop, which is a concept that, in theory, has absolutely nothing to do with a file manager at all. By removing that, we can also remove the panel idea and instead move all those applets on to the desktop. I know, it is a shame to kill the panel, but it must be done.

With the right applets, we then have a really intuitive, welcoming place for users to start working which they can customize quickly and easily depending on their current projects.

Let's hope this spreads over to the other major desktops. Just one wish: Please, nobody accuse anybody in the free software world of "stealing" the good ideas from KDE 4. These are all great ideas, and like any excellent free ideas they deserve to grow and reproduce into the future. We're all in this together :)

Anthem
January 11th, 2008, 03:56 PM
Cool, I'm gonna give it a test.

Kubuntu only offers a direct download? Is that right? No torrents?

K.Mandla
January 11th, 2008, 03:59 PM
Merging KDE4 release threads.

ozone baby
January 11th, 2008, 04:10 PM
Hello everybody. I need Help with installing kde 4 on my Kubunut gutsy distro,
I added deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu gutsy main into my software list file, updated, and when I run apt-get install kde4 It gives me the message like this:


It is impossible to install some packages. Probably, you are asking something impossible, or you use unstable version of distributive, where packages you request, are are not made yet or were deleted from Incoming
....

Packages, that have unsatisfied dependencies:
kde4-core: Depends on: kdebase-workspace (>= 4:4.0.0) but it won't been been installed
E: Broken packages


I translated them to english, cos I have them in my native language, thay may be not exactly the same as in english version, but anyway. I just reinstalled OS, it's clean, so I don't know what is this problem about.

Prisma
January 11th, 2008, 04:19 PM
Hey ozone baby. Just an advice: download the kubuntu kde4 iso and instal it with virtualbox, You can isntall the iso directly no need for bunrning the image to a disc. my advice is this: dont mess with your (K)ubuntu desktop.

kvonb
January 11th, 2008, 04:19 PM
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k99goran
January 11th, 2008, 04:26 PM
I am running Kubuntu 8.04 right now and I have a few gripes.

1. Having to click my way through the list of applications in the app launcher is annoying and time-consuming.
2. Package manager doesn't start. Can't install anything.
3. No ntfs support. Can't access files.
4. Almost all application names end with "KDE 4".
5. Default theme is flat and boring.
6. Which of the following is the audio player?: Cervisia, Kompare, okular, Kig, Kalzium, Kopete, KGpg, KJots, KPPP, Krdc, JuK, KMix, KsCD, K3B, Krfb or Umbrello.

Apart from this, it's showing a lot of promise and it seems very quick. I hope most of these problems will be dealt with before its release in April (I'm not holding my breath for #6 though).

awakatanka
January 11th, 2008, 04:44 PM
NTFS is working for me.
adept is strarting but ask for root pass and doesn't except sudo pass.
Amarok still in my lsit as audio player.
ending with kde 4 means it is a prg for kde4 and not a kde3 prg. Later that will change

If i enable desktop effects my taskbar is flashing when i type.
The suse launcher i simply dislike and hope the new one will come fast.

Plasma is looking good but is still bugged. But need to test it more but i like it already.

Kubuntu version is different then kde4live version from suse, suse has more widgets and suse version looks smoother

kamaboko
January 11th, 2008, 04:49 PM
I am running Kubuntu 8.04 right now and I have a few gripes.

6. Which of the following is the audio player?: Cervisia, Kompare, okular, Kig, Kalzium, Kopete, KGpg, KJots, KPPP, Krdc, JuK, KMix, KsCD, K3B, Krfb or Umbrello.
.

All they need now is Konfused. That looks like a mess.

kvonb
January 11th, 2008, 04:59 PM
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Prisma
January 11th, 2008, 05:15 PM
feels likes windows Vista, i honestly don't see where is the innovation.

kvonb
January 11th, 2008, 05:31 PM
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ozone baby
January 11th, 2008, 05:33 PM
I did some operation, I don't know which one gave the result, but installation started! Waiting till the download finishes

k99goran
January 11th, 2008, 05:35 PM
To be fair, the weird naming scheme has been somewhat hidden in the applications menu. The list says "Audio Player", "Sound Mixer" and "CD player" in large font and only lists the actual names on mouse-over. I think that was a good choice.

Starlight
January 11th, 2008, 05:38 PM
I've just installed KDE4 on my Kubuntu. :) I have mixed feelings about it... It looks quite cool, but still very incomplete. The KDE4 KDM doesn't seem to work at all... it's not able to run KDE4, KDE3.5, Gnome, or E17... only an xterm on a plain blue background. So I still have to use KDE3's KDM. Another thing is that KDE4's window effects are very slow... KDE3 with Compiz Fusion worked perfectly well even with many different effects turned on... but on KDE4 even just a few effects make everything slow. Another bug is that when running programs with kdesu, it never accepts my password, I need to open konsole and use gksu from it to run, for example, a package manager.

And I also miss KDE3's option to make GTK programs use the KDE theme. It was really useful... I hope they add it to KDE4 soon. Right now I'm not sure yet if I'll stay with KDE4 or go back to using KDE3.5 for now...

bobbocanfly
January 11th, 2008, 05:46 PM
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/11/1325250


Many users wrote to alert us that KDE 4.0 has been released. Here's Computerworld Australia's take on the release KDE 4.0 is based on the Qt4 toolkit, which brings significant enhancements in the way memory is used. "So it ends up making KDE less resource intensive than KDE 3, which is quite an improvement," according to Australian KDE developer Hamish Rodda, who calls the new architecture "future-proof." Computerworld notes that developers are already at work porting the new environment to Windows and the Mac.

Screenshot (http://kde.org/announcements/4.0/screenshots/desktop.jpg)

The wait is finally over then. Does this mean KDE 4 will actually make it into Hardy by default or is it too late?

jargs
January 11th, 2008, 06:09 PM
i'm downloading it right now to test :D

jrusso2
January 11th, 2008, 06:11 PM
Thought a lot of "features" will not be finished until 4.1?

mips
January 11th, 2008, 06:22 PM
Thought a lot of "features" will not be finished until 4.1?

That is correct.

weatherman
January 11th, 2008, 06:30 PM
very nice indeed. not 100% there yet I'd say, but close. Waiting eagerly for 4.1.

bufsabre666
January 11th, 2008, 06:32 PM
i like the beta but im a gnome person all the way

blithen
January 11th, 2008, 06:36 PM
I downloaded it and I was kinda disappointing I mean you couldn't even adjust the size of the taskbar. Which in my opinion was WAY to big at default. Also in the right hand corner of the screen if you click on 'remove' this, then it takes away your wallpaper and everything. Needless to say I ran quickly back to XFCE. But it was a good refreshment seeing shiny new things is always good. But it still needs a lot of work.

kvonb
January 11th, 2008, 06:39 PM
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Depressed Man
January 11th, 2008, 06:39 PM
I am running Kubuntu 8.04 right now and I have a few gripes.

1. Having to click my way through the list of applications in the app launcher is annoying and time-consuming.
2. Package manager doesn't start. Can't install anything.
3. No ntfs support. Can't access files.
4. Almost all application names end with "KDE 4".
5. Default theme is flat and boring.
6. Which of the following is the audio player?: Cervisia, Kompare, okular, Kig, Kalzium, Kopete, KGpg, KJots, KPPP, Krdc, JuK, KMix, KsCD, K3B, Krfb or Umbrello.

Apart from this, it's showing a lot of promise and it seems very quick. I hope most of these problems will be dealt with before its release in April (I'm not holding my breath for #6 though).

I thought it was Amarok? At least that's the one I use whenever I'm in KDE.

Erunno
January 11th, 2008, 06:41 PM
I am running Kubuntu 8.04 right now and I have a few gripes.

[QUOTE]1. Having to click my way through the list of applications in the app launcher is annoying and time-consuming.


Kickoff (the menu) works on the assumption that after a short while you'll populate your favourites and hardly use the application browser anymore. Apple does something similar with the dock by the way. And usability improvements of the application browser design have been discussed ad nauseum so look for my posts regarding Kickoff if you want to learn about my point of view.


2. Package manager doesn't start. Can't install anything.


Not a KDE4 issue, report a bug report against Kubuntu.


3. No ntfs support. Can't access files.

See above.


4. Almost all application names end with "KDE 4".

Strange, sounds like a packaging issue which is again not the fault of KDE.


5. Default theme is flat and boring.

It's strange that people now take the exact opposite position regarding the default theme. Anyway, KDE is themeable and one can't argue about taste :-)


6. Which of the following is the audio player?: Cervisia, Kompare, okular, Kig, Kalzium, Kopete, KGpg, KJots, KPPP, Krdc, JuK, KMix, KsCD, K3B, Krfb or Umbrello.

As already mentioned Kickoff uses a generic name as default. Plus, you can use a generic string like "play music" in the Kickoff search which should offer you a media player (or more) as a result.


Apart from this, it's showing a lot of promise and it seems very quick. I hope most of these problems will be dealt with before its release in April (I'm not holding my breath for #6 though)

KDE 4.1 won't be released until then so feature-wise it should look similar to now. Maybe some third party applications like Amarok and Kaffeine will be finished and packaged alongside KDE 4.0 in Kubuntu 8.04

EDIT:

Screenshots! (http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=KDE%204.0) :-)

Erunno
January 11th, 2008, 06:46 PM
I downloaded it and I was kinda disappointing I mean you couldn't even adjust the size of the taskbar.

The configuration options are allegedly there (I haven't looked at the code yet) but the Plasma team hasn't finished a UI for them in time for the 4.0 release. Needless to say that most of the missing configuration features will be added back in the upcoming major releases.

Luffield
January 11th, 2008, 07:15 PM
I'm posting this from the Kubuntu 7.10/KDE4 Live CD.
I never liked KDE and version 4 is not going to change this, according to what I've seen so far. I think the developers did a good job with KDE4, but I prefer GNOME for both looks and functionality.
Still, happy KDE4 release day to all KDE fans, I hope you enjoy your shiny new DE.

Crinos512
January 11th, 2008, 07:21 PM
I wish they had a x64 liveCD ... sigh.

shafin
January 11th, 2008, 07:42 PM
Already posted in this thread:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=664451

-Rick-
January 11th, 2008, 07:46 PM
I wish they had a x64 liveCD ... sigh.
Why? It (the 32 bit version) runs pretty well on 64 bit.

SomeGuyDude
January 11th, 2008, 08:24 PM
Welp, soon as I get off campus and have a net connection I can use via SUSE (damn KNetworkManager...) I'll be installing it. Can't wait!

Crinos512
January 11th, 2008, 09:05 PM
Why? It (the 32 bit version) runs pretty well on 64 bit.

because I could download the LiveCD ISO while at work and take it home to my Dialup and have all the x64 .debs on the ISO, which I could mount and do an install direct from there.

DigitalDuality
January 11th, 2008, 09:26 PM
d

KhaaL
January 11th, 2008, 10:16 PM
Sounds to me the problem is between the keyboard and the chair, KDE isn't buggy. Especially not 3.5, not on Fedora, Gentoo, Ubuntu, Suse or anything else i've used it on for that matter.

funny, becaunse dolphin and amarok are quite crash happy with me and ktorrent is quite flaky aswell. it's a shame that two of my absolute favorite programs like to die all of a sudden on me :(

Marinodimare
January 11th, 2008, 10:38 PM
I've just downloaded the kubuntu+kde4 live cd, does anyone know the login and psswd?

LosD
January 11th, 2008, 10:44 PM
I used Gnome exclusively for a 18 months or so, but became frustrated with it's lack of configuration options.
!

Heh, KDE is going that way too now... And that's a GOOD thing, I've always hated KDE for it's annoying amount of useless options, and 400 programs to do the same thing.

That said, GNOME has gone too far sometimes, so lets hope that KDE4 is something in between.

SunnyRabbiera
January 11th, 2008, 10:50 PM
I am gonna stick to KDE 3.5.8, patience is a virtue though i will give KDE4 a trial run when its ready in the near future

snakeeyes
January 11th, 2008, 10:59 PM
I am gonna stick to KDE 3.5.8, patience is a virtue though i will give KDE4 a trial run when its ready in the near future
I agree, right now I need to study for my exams in May/June 2008. I am planning to use KDE 4 with Hardy. Right now KDE 3.5.8 is good enough for me, I don't have time to deal with bugs and a broken system filled with applications of both KDE 3.5.8 and KDE 4.

andrewsomething
January 11th, 2008, 11:03 PM
I am running Kubuntu 8.04 right now and I have a few gripes.

4. Almost all application names end with "KDE 4".

I believe that is because you should be able to install both the KDE 3.5 and KDE 4 versions of most apps right now, and that allows you to tell which you are using.

xeth_delta
January 11th, 2008, 11:06 PM
Is KDE4 going to stop being a buggy, bloated piece of c*** that crashes every five minutes? Sick of that application error you get in KDE everytime you dare to open and close applications. Its like being in windows.

I have only tried an early beta version of KDE4, so I cannot give an infomed opinion on that.
Nevertheless, if what you are talking about is KDE 3, I would seriously tend to disagree with you. I am a KDE user and I find it extremely stable. Though I believe you might have had a bad experience with it, I have not witnessed such problems on neither Gentoo nor Kubuntu. I guess it might have had something to do with the configuration or implementation of the distro you tried.

That said, which desktop environment we favour, is a matter of personal preference, something that does not make one better than other. I, for one, prefer much better the personalization level, many options and general look and feel of KDE, but again, that's a personl choice. That's why we in the FOSS world are so lucky, we have the possibility to choose what suits us best.

As a last note, please don't get m wrong on this, but please try to watch the words you use! We need to respect each other here. :)

Xeth

Erunno
January 11th, 2008, 11:09 PM
Heh, KDE is going that way too now... And that's a GOOD thing, I've always hated KDE for it's annoying amount of useless options, and 400 programs to do the same thing.

Well, that's not my impression judging from the discussions on the development mailings lists. It's a stated goal to reach feature parity with KDE 3.5 at a later point in KDE 4 lifecycle and that also means providing missing configuration options again. What has been done though is to revamp the interfaces for some of the applications. And please, don't throw around words like "useless" around as you don't have *any* evidence that the options *you* don't need are useless for everybody else or at least a majority. There's something very intolerant about people who believe that there preferences are representative for everybody else.

Plus, there's nothing wrong if 400 applications that do the same as it's in the right of every person to decide to work on the things the pleases him (and her of course). But you can rightfully complain if your distribution of choice decides to install all those 400 applications by default and to my knowledge most major KDE distributions usually choose one app per task.


I agree, right now I need to study for my exams in May/June 2008. I am planning to use KDE 4 with Hardy. Right now KDE 3.5.8 is good enough for me, I don't have time to deal with bugs and a broken system filled with applications of both KDE 3.5.8 and KDE 4.

Well, KDE 4.1 won't be released by the time Kubuntu 8.04 is out so you'll have to live with a mixed environment of KDE 3 and KDE 4 applications or wait until 4.1 hits the Kubuntu repositories which should happen sometimes during the summer.

EDIT: Minor corrections

xeth_delta
January 11th, 2008, 11:13 PM
Well, that's not my impression judging from the discussion on the development mailings lists. It's a stated goal to reach feature parity with KDE 3.5 at a later point in KDE 4 lifecycle and that also means providing missing configuration options again. What has been done though is to revamp current interfaces for some of the application. And please, don't throw around words like "useless" around as you don't have *any* evidence that the options *you* don't need are useless for everybody else or at least a majority. There's something very intolerant about people who believe that there preferences are representative for everybody else.

Plus, there's nothing wrong if 400 applications that do the same as it's in the right of every person to decide to work on the things the pleases him (and her of course). But you can rightfully complain if your distribution of choice decides to install all those 400 applications by default and to my knowledge most major KDE distributions usually chose one app per task.


+1

k99goran
January 12th, 2008, 12:03 AM
KDE 4.1 won't be released until then so feature-wise it should look similar to now. Maybe some third party applications like Amarok and Kaffeine will be finished and packaged alongside KDE 4.0 in Kubuntu 8.04
I definitely hope they keep Kaffeine. It's the only video player on Linux I've tested where the search bar works as it should, meaning if you click on a spot it jumps to that spot, not stutters like Totem or jumps a pre-determined number of seconds forward like VLC.

nikoPSK
January 12th, 2008, 02:04 AM
yay!

Incense
January 12th, 2008, 02:15 AM
I loaded up KDE 4 final in openSUSE, and it looks very nice. Everything felt very fast, and it all looked pretty. As a few others here already said though, I will stick with 3.5.8 until we see 4.1, or a nice distro release with 4 as a default. It will be interesting to see what the next Kubuntu and openSUSE look like with their own personal polish applied.

The Noble
January 12th, 2008, 02:30 AM
I just installed it for Hardy and I have to say I liked it a lot. I have tried 3.5 in the past and I jumped right back to gnome after a couple minutes. If a couple of issues could be fixed quickly, I would use KDE 4 full time with no qualms. I am a gnome man by heart, and kde 4 seemed to strike a thread of passion in me that I have not seen before. It is frankly the most beautiful DEs I have seen, while being one of the lightest. There are some problems that I can't live with currently, however. The fonts look horrible, and I didn't see a place where I could change that. The system manager continued to crash as well. Hell, it feels half finished frankly.

It is the best half finished DE I have ever used. Right now I am in a struggle: do I use KDE 4 or Gnome? Gnome is much more useable, but KDE is much more beautiful and quite a bit faster. I am going to go with Gnome for now, for reasons of practicality, but I hope 4.1 will finally move me the last yard.

xeth_delta
January 12th, 2008, 02:55 AM
feels likes windows Vista, i honestly don't see where is the innovation.

I agree the choice of colors might be similar to vista, but that does not mean it is following it. Two independent projects having similar targets (user interface) might end up looking a bit similar in some aspects. Be sure that under the graphic interface, the way they work would be rather different. As an example, I've been using dark blue and black themes for years, and I definitely was not inspired by the Vista look. You mentioned icons in a previous post. That is just a matter of taste.

About the innovation, remember there is always more than meets the eye. I honestly think that without knowing how it was built and what is indeed new, bashing just for the sake of it is not necessary. I imagine a good place to start would be: http://kde.org/announcements/4.0/.

Vadi
January 12th, 2008, 02:57 AM
I'm sticking with Gnome.

.. and my KDE apps like Amarok and Kmuddy. I like both, but I prefer gnome as my desktop manager. For several windows - KDE is too Windows-ish, I don't like the "K" application menu, I couldn't find the network manager in it. So as a desktop enviroment, no, but KDE apps, gladly. I love the freedom I have in this.

forrestcupp
January 12th, 2008, 03:12 AM
I agree the choice of colors might be similar to vista, but that does not mean it is following it. Two independent projects having similar targets (user interface) might end up looking a bit similar in some aspects. Be sure that under the graphic interface, the way they work would be rather different. As an example, I've been using dark blue and black themes for years, and I definitely was not inspired by the Vista look.

It's not the colors. Vista is mostly greens.

Vadi
January 12th, 2008, 03:13 AM
Sorry to be replying it, but Vista is all about shiny black..

xeth_delta
January 12th, 2008, 03:21 AM
Forrestcupp, vadi, you may be right. I know vista only from pictures, so I guess you know better than me. Anyway, I think we are free to change to whatever color we like, so it should not be that much of an issue :)

Mr. Picklesworth
January 12th, 2008, 04:04 AM
Plasma is nothing like Vista's desktop, if that is what you are getting at. It has free placement of any widget, anywhere, not relying on a sidebar at all. Granted, Vista's Sidebar widgets do allow to be placed freely, but they are a minor addition to the existing shell.
Furthermore, Vista's "Sidebar" is comparable to a cheap gimmick that merely gives you a feed reader that happens to have a different type of window (and looks nicer than usual).

Plasma is a reimagining of the desktop as it should be, relying on those widgets as a full alternative to having a Desktop folder. The desktop rendered by file manager idea is idiotic, and this is very obvious from the fact that users being able to resize and reorganize desktop icons freely is considered important. That means the biggest use case is those scattered icons simultaneously reminding people of things to work on, programs they like to use and ongoing plans. Heck, I used to have a stretched icon on my GNOME desktop to give me the daily Dilbert comic via its preview. (I dropped that recently, because I have decided that I should encourage the online advertising that pays for certain free services). From what I have seen, the file manager is designed for none of those use cases, so these desktops fail at everything they try to do and are thus usability disasters.

Instead, KDE's new Plasma widgets work as launchers and quick, handy ways to start working. They are little assistants that replace the shortcuts and downloads people usually scatter on their desktops.

billgoldberg
January 12th, 2008, 04:07 AM
KDE4 (installed it today) fixed most issues the rc2 had. The only thing I find wrong with it (besides f-spot crashing) is the start menu.
I HATE it!

edit: as an ex vista user I say: kde4 is NOTHING like vista in any way. (if thats good or bad (visually), only time will tell)

xeth_delta
January 12th, 2008, 04:30 AM
Plasma is nothing like Vista's desktop, if that is what you are getting at. It has free placement of any widget, anywhere, not relying on a sidebar at all. Granted, Vista's Sidebar widgets do allow to be placed freely, but they are a minor addition to the existing shell.
Furthermore, Vista's "Sidebar" is comparable to a cheap gimmick that merely gives you a feed reader that happens to have a different type of window (and looks nicer than usual).

Plasma is a reimagining of the desktop as it should be, relying on those widgets as a full alternative to having a Desktop folder. The desktop rendered by file manager idea is idiotic, and this is very obvious from the fact that users being able to resize and reorganize desktop icons freely is considered important. That means the biggest use case is those scattered icons simultaneously reminding people of things to work on, programs they like to use and ongoing plans. Heck, I used to have a stretched icon on my GNOME desktop to give me the daily Dilbert comic via its preview. (I dropped that recently, because I have decided that I should encourage the online advertising that pays for certain free services). From what I have seen, the file manager is designed for none of those use cases, so these desktops fail at everything they try to do and are thus usability disasters.

Instead, KDE's new Plasma widgets work as launchers and quick, handy ways to start working. They are little assistants that replace the shortcuts and downloads people usually scatter on their desktops.


as an ex vista user I say: kde4 is NOTHING like vista in any way. (if thats good or bad (visually), only time will tell)

I am really glad to hear KDE4 is nothing like Vista. Thanks for your replies.

Xeth

JeffElkins
January 12th, 2008, 04:37 AM
What happened to the Taskbar/Dock? Can you no longer add applications to it?

nikoPSK
January 12th, 2008, 05:01 AM
it's not very customizable atm...

mrgnash
January 12th, 2008, 05:33 AM
Nothing about it really grabs me. I'll be sticking with Gnome.

perlluver
January 12th, 2008, 05:39 AM
If you like KDE, use KDE. If you like Gnome use Gnome. People have different preferences. Use what makes you happy. That is what Freedom is about. Use what you want. That is the best thing about Linux. I can make it look like Linux, Windows, Mac. Right now I am using the gOS desktop. It looks good to me. I've used Kubuntu, Ubuntu, gOS, Debian with KDE and Gnome. It is personal choice. I switch between Gnome, and gOS. I think KDE 4 is nice, but I don't like the menu, and pidgin won't stay open in the taskbar. So I switched back to Gnome until KDE 4 is 4.1.

nikoPSK
January 12th, 2008, 05:40 AM
KDE is a nice big step. I still like gnome but have KDE4 in a wm. :lolflag:

BLTicklemonster
January 12th, 2008, 06:01 AM
Read this:

http://www.linux.com/feature/123597

The media are attempting to portray KDE as angels and GNOME as devils when neither is the case.

Zod! Long time, how you doin?

I've tried kde on and off again since I started using ubuntu about 2 years ago, and each time, I have the problem with errors popping up every once in a while, where in Gnome, I rarely ever see an error. Besides, the whole setup puts me off a bit. Gnome is just flat out (in my humble opinion) easy and intuitive, and it's a natural fit for me. Which isn't to say Kde isn't easy and intuitive and a natural fit for other folks. So it's cool that there's different strokes for different folks, eh?

I'm installing kde4 now to see how it looks.

nikoPSK
January 12th, 2008, 06:18 AM
KDE4 is nice BLT, lol, why are there microsoft ads on that linux article? :popcorn:

BLTicklemonster
January 12th, 2008, 06:23 AM
OMG Microsoft is infiltrating kde!!!

lol


Okay, I'm in.

I used the repository from the how to posted earlier, but I didn't use the method they used. I updated, then opened synaptic, and chose

kde4

and

kde4-core

and hit apply, and let it do it's thing.

Prolly not the prescribed way to do it, but it's up and running. I

Not one error at all.

The start menu, totally different from the old one thankfully, is ... on the one hand really really cool; on the other hand, kinda confusing in a panicky sort of way, but only for a second.

Looks really smooth so far, too.

I think I'll stay in it for a little while and see how I do.

So, as far as kde3.* vs kde4 goes, kde4 is a vast improvement all the way around.

In my humble monstery opinion, that is. Scales and all.

shafin
January 12th, 2008, 06:23 AM
What do mean by having KDE4 in a WM?

nikoPSK
January 12th, 2008, 06:30 AM
What do mean by having KDE4 in a WM?

I think he meant VM, virtual machine. Enjoy it BLT!

klerfayt
January 12th, 2008, 06:36 AM
where is classical menu included in kde4 kubuntu packages, but first I'll let you figure out how to drag widgets to the panel :confused:

klerfayt
January 12th, 2008, 06:42 AM
the new KDE 4.0 looks insanely buggy and unstable, (those icons look ugly as ever, typical of KDE puag! I was told they were improving those :( ) what icons? oxygen?

SunnyRabbiera
January 12th, 2008, 07:29 AM
I think I am gonna start a countdown to kde 4.1 as then is where I might actually install it

BLTicklemonster
January 12th, 2008, 07:34 AM
wtf, my mouse buttons work. Cool. They didn't in 3.5

misfitpierce
January 12th, 2008, 08:00 AM
Good news... I love the multiple DE options for linux... gives everyone a bit of what they are looking for in a computer OS. Another well done DE is out. Hooray! :)

SunnyRabbiera
January 12th, 2008, 08:05 AM
well I did give a burn of kubuntu with kde4 earlier to give it a shot...
but I am not impressed right now.
It seems too limited, a big taskbar you cant change the size of, little to none really impressive effects (heck even kde 3.5 runs circles around it in terms of looks)
It just looks.... amateurish.
I personally see no reason to use it in its current state, the black panel just screams vista and overall it looks cheaply done...
I will give it a chance yes but not for the foreseeable future.
KDE 4.1 might be where I look at kde4 as a viable choice, but who knows.

SomeGuyDude
January 12th, 2008, 08:29 AM
well I did give a burn of kubuntu with kde4 earlier to give it a shot...
but I am not impressed right now.
It seems too limited, a big taskbar you cant change the size of, little to none really impressive effects (heck even kde 3.5 runs circles around it in terms of looks)
It just looks.... amateurish.
I personally see no reason to use it in its current state, the black panel just screams vista and overall it looks cheaply done...
I will give it a chance yes but not for the foreseeable future.
KDE 4.1 might be where I look at kde4 as a viable choice, but who knows.

Yep. I put it on my openSUSE install and after puttering around for about 5 minutes I decided never to use it again. It's clunky, unattractive, and incredibly slow for some reason.

"Amateurish" describes it well. 3.5 is a lot nicer, I think.

kvonb
January 12th, 2008, 11:12 AM
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lgambett
January 12th, 2008, 11:33 AM
My experience (on Gutsy); KDE4 is nice, very fast on my hp 6373, and in my experience absolutely inoperable for daily use. It is in less-than-beta stage.

Erunno
January 12th, 2008, 12:02 PM
Well, here's a comparison between the KDE 3.5 default theme and its match in KDE 4.0:

KDE 3.5 desktop (http://www.kde.org/screenshots/images/3.5/01-welcome.png)

KDE 4.0 desktop (http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/screenshots/desktop.jpg)

Now, it all comes down to personal taste in the end but at least to me it's a noticeable improvement on the visual side.

It's also interesting to observe how the default theme evolved during the KDE 3 lifecylcle:

KDE 3.0 desktop (http://www.kde.org/screenshots/images/large/kde3-snapshot2.jpg)

So while nobody knows what the future holds and if it will fare better then the present I'm sure that Oxygen will also see iterative changes to it.

tehet
January 12th, 2008, 12:03 PM
I think this trend of creating deadlines, and release dates thing is starting to get a bit old.
"Release early, release often." :p

It has been stated numerous times all over the web that it's not quite finished yet. Many people appear to be judging it for something that it's not.

visions97
January 12th, 2008, 05:22 PM
"Release early, release often." :p


That sentence might very well be the worst thing to happen to open source software. Ever.

Vadi
January 12th, 2008, 05:32 PM
No, it's right.

The thing is that you don't release not properly finished / tested products. Otherwise, it's very right.

Polygon
January 12th, 2008, 05:46 PM
i tried the kubuntu live cd with ke4 on it

is it just me, or can i not configure anything? The settings module has like 5 things on it..... is it not complete or something? Because all i wanted was tone down the hugeeeeee taskbar and i couldent find an option to do that

Ripfox
January 12th, 2008, 05:54 PM
Yea, whats with the giant playschool taskbar?

happysmileman
January 12th, 2008, 06:17 PM
For all these people comparing it to 3.5... Why aren't they comparing it to 3.0, or why don't they wait for KDE4.1 to make that comparison or something, most KDE developers clearly stated that it isn't finished and many features and the appearance of it won't be included until 4.1.

4.0 is released so that programs can start to be written for and tested on a relatively stable version of it, and 3.5 is still released. It was released less than 48 hours ago, and it has bugs, I suppose this obviously means that KDE is crap and will never be usable?

Also when was the last time GNOME actually made this big a change in their DE? Other than occassionally adding a feature or fixing some bugs I can't see any major change in it in a very long time. Feel free to correct me, but KDE4 involved completely rewritinng huge parts of KDE, and now KDE4 actually uses less memory than KDE3 (and from my experience it goes faster, excluding repainting windows when resized or scrolled.) When was the last time Gnome put so much time and effort into anything.

forrestcupp
January 12th, 2008, 06:18 PM
deja vu. Linux people really aren't any better than Windows people.

This is exactly a Linux version of the XP vs. Vista arguments that are in the Windows forums.

Polygon
January 12th, 2008, 06:23 PM
For all these people comparing it to 3.5... Why aren't they comparing it to 3.0, or why don't they wait for KDE4.1 to make that comparison or something, most KDE developers clearly stated that it isn't finished and many features and the appearance of it won't be included until 4.1.

4.0 is released so that programs can start to be written for and tested on a relatively stable version of it, and 3.5 is still released. It was released less than 48 hours ago, and it has bugs, I suppose this obviously means that KDE is crap and will never be usable?

Also when was the last time GNOME actually made this big a change in their DE? Other than occassionally adding a feature or fixing some bugs I can't see any major change in it in a very long time. Feel free to correct me, but KDE4 involved completely rewritinng huge parts of KDE, and now KDE4 actually uses less memory than KDE3 (and from my experience it goes faster, excluding repainting windows when resized or scrolled.) When was the last time Gnome put so much time and effort into anything.

dont turn this into a gnome vs kde discussion. its not worth it.

SunnyRabbiera
January 12th, 2008, 06:25 PM
well initial reaction is always going to be bad.
yes I said i dont like kde4, but then again I didnt say I hated it.
The only thing I wish is for people not to just hop into this thing and learn a lesson:
never jump into anything you have no idea about.
This is why I am thankful there are live CDs so one can see if something is up their alley or not.
Currently I think KDE4 looks like junk but who knows what it will bring.
But the comparison with the start of the kde3 branch is a little meh, I have used kde as early as kde 3.1 and I thought it was actually pretty decent for how limited it was back then, at least you could change the size and color of the panel...

QCompson
January 12th, 2008, 06:31 PM
"Release early, release often." :p

It has been stated numerous times all over the web that it's not quite finished yet. Many people appear to be judging it for something that it's not.

I can't understand this logic. When it was a beta, people criticized kde4 and everyone said, "It's only a beta! It will change a lot before it's actually released!"

When it was a release candidate, people who dared to criticize it for not looking anywhere close to a candidate ready to release were met with, "It's only a release candidate, you can't complain about a product that isn't finished!"

And now KDE 4.0 is officially released, people complain that it is not usable for daily tasks, and the answer is that, "...it's not quite finished yet"?!?

KDE 3.0 (http://www.kde.org/screenshots/images/large/kde3-snapshot2.jpg) and Gnome 2.0 (http://www.gnome.org/start/2.0/screenshots/csm-desktop.png) were finished products. A bit rough around the edges, but finished. KDE 4.0 is beta quality, but instead of pushing back the final release date, it seems that some KDE developers and others instead insist on changing the definitions of software stages. I don't buy the "we had to release it because we want people to test it" argument; people aren't afraid of trying beta software if it is somewhat usable. Look at how many people use E17, or run Hardy. All the marketing doublespeak some KDE people have been using is silly.

Xbehave
January 12th, 2008, 06:59 PM
Lets not knock the release early, release often method just yet, if you like finished products then wait for them, if you being cutting edge stuff then dont complain

Its not finished yet but the .0 release is usable, i think its more to encourage programs to be developed for it, users wont switch to kde4 until theyre are programs on it.

Im planing to switch as soon as the taskbar can be shrunk, but untill then ill stick to 3.5!

Erunno
January 12th, 2008, 07:01 PM
KDE 3.0 (http://www.kde.org/screenshots/images/large/kde3-snapshot2.jpg) and Gnome 2.0 (http://www.gnome.org/start/2.0/screenshots/csm-desktop.png) were finished products.

You can judge feature-completness and stability by looking at pictures? :shock:

happysmileman
January 12th, 2008, 07:39 PM
dont turn this into a gnome vs kde discussion. its not worth it.

Ok then, KDE made a lot of huge changes and never claimed that 4.0 would be stable, just that it would be the base of what the subsequent versions would be based on, and that developers could use it to make and test their programs, it can also be used as an unstable desktop for those who want the new features.

I suppose that's a way of putting it without comparing it to GNOME

Vadi
January 12th, 2008, 07:41 PM
All that matters is this: does KDE 4 attract non-Linux users?

happysmileman
January 12th, 2008, 07:41 PM
You can judge feature-completness and stability by looking at pictures? :shock:

Half the posts I've read here are "OMG I HATE TEH MENU/PANEL", so he's suggesting that they look at the improvements from KDE3.0 to 3.[1-5] and then try to imagine what the Panel will look like when it's actually improved and when more effort starts to be put on appearance instead of fixing bugs and finishing things in a hurry

Starlight
January 12th, 2008, 08:03 PM
I really like the way KDE 4 looks, but I think I'll stay with KDE 3.5 as my main one for now, because KDE 4 is extremely slow. I don't know, especially since it should be faster than KDE 3... but it's so slow that it's hard to use. Does anyone have that problem too? The easiest way to compare the speed of both KDEs is to close all windows, and try to make a selection with your mouse on the desktop. If everything's smooth even when the selection box gets big, then it's good. But if it gets slower the bigger the selection box is, then it's not good... unfortunately, KDE 4 fails that test very miserably on my computer. :(

DeadSuperHero
January 12th, 2008, 08:17 PM
So far, KDE 4.0 runs pretty well on my computer. It kind of sucks not having Amarok 2 yet, and some features are obviously missing/incomplete.
Though, it's pretty much usable in my opinion, and very nice.
One thing that disgusts me immensely though is the negative feedback from places like CNET. Over half the comments are idiotic things like "It's a ripoff of Mac's Spaces", "Linux is for Morons" , "Linus Torvald's family doesn't even use Linux.", and most horribly "I'm hoping that Apple, Microsoft, and other big companies band together to sue the Open Source community into the ground"

...
Makes one feel murderous.

happysmileman
January 12th, 2008, 08:17 PM
I really like the way KDE 4 looks, but I think I'll stay with KDE 3.5 as my main one for now, because KDE 4 is extremely slow. I don't know, especially since it should be faster than KDE 3... but it's so slow that it's hard to use. Does anyone have that problem too? The easiest way to compare the speed of both KDEs is to close all windows, and try to make a selection with your mouse on the desktop. If everything's smooth even when the selection box gets big, then it's good. But if it gets slower the bigger the selection box is, then it's not good... unfortunately, KDE 4 fails that test very miserably on my computer. :(

KDE3.5 fails that exact test for me, whereas 4.0 does it fine, but it is kinda weird... Maybe they perform differently on different graphics cards or something?*I'm running a fairly old graphics card and it's fine, so it probably isn't to do with the speed of graphics card either, maybe the drivers?

klerfayt
January 12th, 2008, 08:23 PM
performance hack for nvidia cards (http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KWin/4.0-release-notes#Performance) or just read the release notes (http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KWin/4.0-release-notes)

klerfayt
January 12th, 2008, 08:25 PM
Now, it all comes down to personal taste in the end but at least to me it's a noticeable improvement on the visual side.+1

miggols99
January 12th, 2008, 08:51 PM
I really like the way KDE 4 looks, but I think I'll stay with KDE 3.5 as my main one for now, because KDE 4 is extremely slow. I don't know, especially since it should be faster than KDE 3... but it's so slow that it's hard to use. Does anyone have that problem too? The easiest way to compare the speed of both KDEs is to close all windows, and try to make a selection with your mouse on the desktop. If everything's smooth even when the selection box gets big, then it's good. But if it gets slower the bigger the selection box is, then it's not good... unfortunately, KDE 4 fails that test very miserably on my computer. :(
I would think that test would show how powerful your graphics card is...

lzfy
January 12th, 2008, 09:16 PM
I really like the way KDE 4 looks, but I think I'll stay with KDE 3.5 as my main one for now, because KDE 4 is extremely slow. I don't know, especially since it should be faster than KDE 3... but it's so slow that it's hard to use. Does anyone have that problem too? The easiest way to compare the speed of both KDEs is to close all windows, and try to make a selection with your mouse on the desktop. If everything's smooth even when the selection box gets big, then it's good. But if it gets slower the bigger the selection box is, then it's not good... unfortunately, KDE 4 fails that test very miserably on my computer. :(

Works great here. I'm really impressed by it's speed. But the they need to work on the composition a lot because compiz runs very smooth on my pc but Kwin doesn't. That said, I too will stick with KDE 3.5 for a while because I think it's not very usefull at the moment. I also hate the fact that you can't place files on your desktop.

swoll1980
January 12th, 2008, 09:26 PM
Read this:

http://www.linux.com/feature/123597

The media are attempting to portray KDE as angels and GNOME as devils when neither is the case.

Did you even finish reading this?

Starlight
January 12th, 2008, 11:49 PM
KDE3.5 fails that exact test for me, whereas 4.0 does it fine, but it is kinda weird... Maybe they perform differently on different graphics cards or something?*I'm running a fairly old graphics card and it's fine, so it probably isn't to do with the speed of graphics card either, maybe the drivers?
Well, I have the same drivers while running KDE3 and KDE4... but maybe I have something wrong with my settings... Do you have effects turned on when you use KDE4? I have some really basic ones, such as window shadow... while on KDE3 I have Compiz Fusion and it's fast and smooth even when I use lots of fancy effects...

performance hack for nvidia cards (http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KWin/4.0-release-notes#Performance) or just read the release notes (http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KWin/4.0-release-notes)
Thanks for the link! I've tried that nVidia hack (I have GeForce 8400), but it didn't really change much...

I would think that test would show how powerful your graphics card is...

Yes, that's true... but in this case it shows the difference between KDE 3 and 4 on my computer... but maybe on other computers the difference is different.

happysmileman
January 13th, 2008, 02:12 AM
Well, I have the same drivers while running KDE3 and KDE4... but maybe I have something wrong with my settings... Do you have effects turned on when you use KDE4? I have some really basic ones, such as window shadow... while on KDE3 I have Compiz Fusion and it's fast and smooth even when I use lots of fancy effects...

Yes I had effects turned on for both, and KDE3 even had compiz fusion... However with compiz fusion the effects worked fine in KDE3, as do the effects in KDE4, it was only selecting the desktop that was slow on KDE3.

So maybe the code to select the desktop has been rewritten for KDE4 and it works better on some graphics cards than others? And is independent to the way it's done in KDE3, which also has issues with some types of graphics cards.

victorgreen
January 13th, 2008, 10:44 AM
Ok so a friend and I just downloaded the Kubuntu KDE 4.0 live cd, popped it in an external usb cd drive and gave it a spin.

On the first boot usb error.
Hard restart

Booted fine, very odd splash screen behaviour (or lack of it) until I was confronted by a bouncing harddrive icon roughly reminiscent of something out of OSX.

Our initials reactions can generally be summarized by "urgh". The default layout at least looked like a failed cross between the venerable start menu/windows bar and the OSX dock. I had hoped never to have to deal with a start menu ever again... The system settings were buried under several levels of dialogs and organized in a kind of window horribly similar to the dreaded 'control panel'.... except less useful than the actual Windoze control panel. There were nice options for configuring remote access and passwords for sharing folders on networks but no network settings themselves. We could find no gui or dialog for actually getting an internet connection.

Nowhere in the applications tab on the live cd was an office section. Indeed we couldnt find a word processor at all. There was nothing in the Education tab either. Trying koffice or Koffice in terminal produced nothing either. Id consider this a serious flaw.

There was also no way to access terminal from the applications launcher. We finally got into it through a menu in Konqueror.. In an attempt to discover an office program we plugged in a fat32 formatted flashdrive in an attempt to get the default word processor to launch when we opened an ODT... except the drive wasnt automounted. Running 'mount' didnt turn up any mention of the drive either.

The 'start' menu also had the annoying habit of remembering the last menu you were at when you last used it and opening back where you had been previously. Insanely annoying, also when you entered one of the categories of applications the other options in the parent folder were forced out of view.

When I finally went to restart the darn thing and get back to a more user friendly operating system, once I had hit restart in the start menu, a restart/shutdown/hibernate etc dialog opened while the screen dimmed. I dislike having to tell the computer to do something more than once to have the task carried out.

The bloody thing then decided to unmount the external cd drive while it was shutting down, causing segfault and another hard restart. I had high hopes for KDE4 and was looking forward to playing around with it, but Im not going near it until the next release at least.

ChameleonDave
January 13th, 2008, 12:38 PM
I've just installed KDE 4 alongside KDE 3, GNOME, and all the other desktop environments that I have on this computer. I am both impressed and disappointed.

I'm impressed because of the array of great new features and the general steps in the right direction. I'm disappointed because it is unprofessional to the point of childishness to release an alpha version as a final release. These people can obviously code, but they need an adult, who actually uses a computer to do stuff, to come over and shake some common sense into them.

I can't believe they didn't bother to make the massive black bar configurable. In this age of wide-screen monitors, I don't want any of my screen height wasted by a panel, let alone an inch-high one. The first thing I do when I install an OS is to move the main panel to the left-hand side, where I have room to burn. In fact, the idea of a taskbar is clunky and outdated, because I just use Compiz to bring up windows if I want to change what I'm doing or remind myself what I have open.

Having said that, I am annoyed by some silly criticisms of KDE 4. Although it is clear that it's barely useable right now, KDE 4.1 will obviously be way better than KDE 3 and GNOME.

Rejecting KDE 4 because you don't like Kickoff is particularly stupid. Both Kickoff and the old KMenu come with both KDE 3 and 4. The only difference is that Kickoff is now the default. With (literally) two clicks, you can put a Kmenu widget on your desktop or panel, and with two more you can remove Kickoff.

What's with this hatred of the letter K? Why is a name like "KSpread" inferior to "Gnumeric"? It's just a way of having a bit of consistency between programs. It really doesn't matter that you reckon you can think of a cooler name. It's not as if it's barely pronounceable and hard to remember, like "XFCE"; or embarrassing to mention in polite company, like "The GIMP" or "Pornview".

psychicdragon
January 13th, 2008, 12:54 PM
I fiddled around with it for an hour or so today. Looks quite nice but is noticably slower than 3.5 on my old-ish PC. The inability to customize the panel is very frustrating. For some reason I can't empty the trash in Dolphin, odd. All the icons in the main menu are broken as well.

I'll give it another try when they release the next major version. For now, it's just too incomplete to use as a desktop. Back to Xfce for me.

kvonb
January 13th, 2008, 12:54 PM
-

desper
January 13th, 2008, 01:14 PM
I tried KDE4 for 3 minute, and then I uninstalled it with --purge. I discovered many new features in that 3 munites, like new way of search and choose apps, fast way of adding desktop widgets, and a nice toolbar, and big fancy icons. It feels more like Vista way. Of course it could be a marketing strategy thing, segmentation, product differentiation, and attracting users who like Vista ways. No doubt it benefits the linux as a whole.

But surely, at least by the default setting, KDE4 is not small-screen-laptop friendly. I would prefer KDE3.5 for now. Hope there will be longer support for KDE3.5.

Starlight
January 13th, 2008, 02:37 PM
Yes I had effects turned on for both, and KDE3 even had compiz fusion... However with compiz fusion the effects worked fine in KDE3, as do the effects in KDE4, it was only selecting the desktop that was slow on KDE3.

So maybe the code to select the desktop has been rewritten for KDE4 and it works better on some graphics cards than others? And is independent to the way it's done in KDE3, which also has issues with some types of graphics cards.
I think I figured out what caused most of the slowness in my KDE 4... I think it's a bug in Plasma. I have a picture frame on my desktop, and it was rotated a little... and anything going on above that picture frame (moving windows, making a selection box, etc.) was very slow and lagging. But when I changed it so that it's not rotated anymore, it all started to work much better. :) My KDE 4 is much more usable now. :D

Right now for me one of the main problems with KDE 4 at the moment is that GTK apps are ugly (KDE 3.5 had the option to make GTK apps use the QT theme, I hope they add something similar to KDE 4 soon). That's why I'm using Konqueror instead of Firefox... unfortunately, Konqueror has much less features than Firefox...

And another problem I have is that IM programs like Kopete don't flash in the taskbar when I get a new message... it's kind of annoying.

miggols99
January 13th, 2008, 03:57 PM
I think I figured out what caused most of the slowness in my KDE 4... I think it's a bug in Plasma. I have a picture frame on my desktop, and it was rotated a little... and anything going on above that picture frame (moving windows, making a selection box, etc.) was very slow and lagging. But when I changed it so that it's not rotated anymore, it all started to work much better. :) My KDE 4 is much more usable now. :D

Right now for me one of the main problems with KDE 4 at the moment is that GTK apps are ugly (KDE 3.5 had the option to make GTK apps use the QT theme, I hope they add something similar to KDE 4 soon). That's why I'm using Konqueror instead of Firefox... unfortunately, Konqueror has much less features than Firefox...

And another problem I have is that IM programs like Kopete don't flash in the taskbar when I get a new message... it's kind of annoying.Yes that problem is quite annoying. You can get the colour scheme to be the same by going into

System settings >> Appearance >> Colours

At the bottom there should be a checkbox saying "Apply colours to non KDE4 applications." It's a start..

forrestcupp
January 14th, 2008, 03:16 PM
For anyone who is interested, to get rid of the massive black menu bar (after you remove everything from it and put them onto the desktop!), here's how:

1. Quit out of KDE4 completely (if you try this while still in KDE4 it simply overwrites it and comes straight back!!)

2. Edit the file ~/.kde4/share/config/plasma-appletsrc, and remove the whole section "[Containments][2]" which should be near the end of the file. You theoretically could make the panel smaller by editing some of those values in there, but I couldn't be bothered trying :D.

3. Go back into KDE4 and your life should be all smiles and flowers again :D.

Thank you for that valuable information.

kvonb
January 14th, 2008, 05:53 PM
-

GSF1200S
January 14th, 2008, 09:12 PM
KDE4 is not that bad- I can just see the incredible potential.

You wouldnt pass up a free 69 Camaro because its in bad shape, would you? With some time and money that baby would be a dream car, and KDE is no different respectively.

Sure, I cant remove the taskbar, and the options are far less than KDE3, but thats just for now. As it gets developed, expanded and improved, its going to become a powerhouse.

Im sticking with 3 atm, but prolly by 4.1 to 4.2 ill be making the switch...

Ripfox
January 15th, 2008, 06:12 AM
Omg I Hate Teh Menu/panel :lolflag:

alonzso
January 15th, 2008, 07:01 AM
Omg I Hate Teh Menu/panel :lolflag:

I hate it too. Almost like Vista's menu. [-X

I never understood the point of this kind of menu. Everything is stuffed in a small area. I find it very difficult to use..

awakatanka
January 15th, 2008, 10:23 AM
I hate it too. Almost like Vista's menu. [-X

I never understood the point of this kind of menu. Everything is stuffed in a small area. I find it very difficult to use..

What makes it a vista bar? Because its black? The menu is totaly different doesn't even come near a vista menu. All those people complaining that it looks like a vista/osx thing please explain what in youre eye's make it look like that.

look in screenshot section and see what people make frome there gnome/kde. They put in OSX clone AWN or use a Blackbar that looks like vista (some people say ) And then on top of it they use compiz with effects that are also in OSX and vista.

alonzso
January 15th, 2008, 11:53 AM
What makes it a vista bar? Because its black? The menu is totaly different doesn't even come near a vista menu. All those people complaining that it looks like a vista/osx thing please explain what in youre eye's make it look like that.

look in screenshot section and see what people make frome there gnome/kde. They put in OSX clone AWN or use a Blackbar that looks like vista (some people say ) And then on top of it they use compiz with effects that are also in OSX and vista.

I didn't meant bar. I meant the menu which doesn't expand to right anymore. Its like one box and it contents changes by your actions, I find the old style menu much easier to use, which expands items to right.. But thats only my opinion, maybe I'll get used to this new menu and find it better someday :)

Incense
January 15th, 2008, 12:31 PM
You can use the old KDE menu if you don't like the kickoff menu. I think KDE 4 is brilliant and beautiful.

Incense
January 15th, 2008, 01:53 PM
I just found this on the OpenSUSE forums. I don't think it's been posted here yet, but it has a good bit of info on KDE 4.0 for those interested.

KDE 4.0.0 emergency FAQ (http://software-libre.rudd-o.com/KDE_4.0.0_emergency_FAQ)

Vadi
January 15th, 2008, 03:15 PM
Well thank god, so far I haven't seen any major complaining threads in the media but a pretty good one:

http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2008/01/kde-4-brings-im.html

bufsabre666
January 15th, 2008, 03:21 PM
well im trying it for the first time since its offical release now, and honestly i think the RC was alot less buggy

im ganna play around with it a while longer and then go back to my beloved gnome

at least it looks very pretty, now all we need is stability hopefully 4.1 isnt that far off

grinias
January 15th, 2008, 04:05 PM
After today's upgrade of KDE4.0 there are some remarkable improvements compared
to the trials I made after KDE4.0 officially released:


kde-su now works fine
desktop wallpaper is always displayed after login
kde4 application icons are displayed at menu entries
configuration of fonts does not change each time I logout.


Hope that the good work will be continued... :)

sports fan Matt
January 15th, 2008, 05:31 PM
Do i try it? I mean i tried it but then i had to completely reformat because it killed my entire computer..Is it really and honestly worth it? Id like construstive for and against's please cause I dont want to reformat again lol

Anthem
January 16th, 2008, 05:22 AM
Ehh. Tried it. Couldn't get wireless working.

I'll wait for a distro release instead of a remaster.

alwiap
January 16th, 2008, 05:31 AM
tried it, couldn't get wireless working, it looks a lot sharper than previous KDE's I've seen, but I've never been a KDE fan to begin with, I might install it on one of my old boxes I'm salvaging.

myke
January 16th, 2008, 05:44 AM
KDE 4 looks great but frankly I'm afraid to try it at this point. In the normal course of things, Kubuntu has been great for me but the upgrade process since dapper up to gutsy has always been a bitch and caused things to fall apart on my system. This has, in every case, led to a clean install and hours spent customizing things the way I wanted them again.

So my question is this: How stable is KDE 4 for the average Kubuntu or the KDE based distro user?? Is it really worth upgrading now or should we wait a while while the kinks are worked out (which they're inevitably a large amount in any new major release of software)Huh

Also, will most of the current KDE 3.5 based apps such as K3b, Kaffeine, Amarok, and then those GTK based apps I need such as Sound Juicer and Audio Tag Tool work as well in KDE 4 as they do in KDE 3.5 or will KDE 3.5 do I need to be sure that packages I'm using under KDE 3.5 have been upgraded themselves to work with KDE 4??

Another question: IF I do decide to run with KDE 4 in the near future, will installing it automatically remove KDE 3.5??

I'm always up for wanting to try the latest and greatest and KDE 4 looks great, I just wanna make sure I'm not gonna cause a big mess and spend hours fixing it again!!

Incense
January 16th, 2008, 06:15 AM
KDE 4 looks great but frankly I'm afraid to try it at this point. In the normal course of things, Kubuntu has been great for me but the upgrade process since dapper up to gutsy has always been a bitch and caused things to fall apart on my system. This has, in every case, led to a clean install and hours spent customizing things the way I wanted them again.

So my question is this: How stable is KDE 4 for the average Kubuntu or the KDE based distro user?? Is it really worth upgrading now or should we wait a while while the kinks are worked out (which they're inevitably a large amount in any new major release of software)Huh

Also, will most of the current KDE 3.5 based apps such as K3b, Kaffeine, Amarok, and then those GTK based apps I need such as Sound Juicer and Audio Tag Tool work as well in KDE 4 as they do in KDE 3.5 or will KDE 3.5 do I need to be sure that packages I'm using under KDE 3.5 have been upgraded themselves to work with KDE 4??

Another question: IF I do decide to run with KDE 4 in the near future, will installing it automatically remove KDE 3.5??

I'm always up for wanting to try the latest and greatest and KDE 4 looks great, I just wanna make sure I'm not gonna cause a big mess and spend hours fixing it again!!

KDE4 ATM is really for devs and early adopters. I would recommend to most people to load up the openSUSE or Kubuntu KDE4 live CD's so you can see the new interface, and play around with the new features, but keep your existing install as it is. I think it will be worth waiting for Hardy to start using KDE 4 as your everyday desktop.

If you did follow the instructions on the Kubuntu.org page for installing KDE 4, then your 3.5.x install would remain largely untouched. When you log in, you click on sessions and select KDE or KDE 4, then log in. Still I think the live may be a better route to go if you don't want to worry about braking your current install.

ChameleonDave
January 19th, 2008, 12:21 PM
For anyone who is interested, to get rid of the massive black menu bar (after you remove everything from it and put them onto the desktop!), here's how:

1. Quit out of KDE4 completely (if you try this while still in KDE4 it simply overwrites it and comes straight back!!)

2. Edit the file ~/.kde4/share/config/plasma-appletsrc, and remove the whole section "[Containments][2]" which should be near the end of the file. You theoretically could make the panel smaller by editing some of those values in there, but I couldn't be bothered trying :D.

3. Go back into KDE4 and your life should be all smiles and flowers again :D.


Thanks.