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rune0077
January 6th, 2008, 03:10 AM
Could someone explain to me why I got an infraction for this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=659528)?

And first, I get the whole "no offensive language because there's kids here" thingy. But is that really an offensive word? I could have used one of many slang version of the word, and yes, sure, that would have been offensive. But that? I'm pretty sure no one has really found that word offensive since the 1950's. You can look it up in any standard dictionary. 13 year old kids learns the meaning of that word during sexual education in school (or at least we do, in my country).

Actually, I'll keep the infraction if you insist on it, but could someone just, please, assure me that we aren't living fifty years ago and that this is an okay word.

KiwiNZ
January 6th, 2008, 08:44 AM
The post was inappropriate for the Cafe, off topic and plainly immature.

The action by staff to jail the post and issue an infraction is fully supported.

rune0077
January 6th, 2008, 02:38 PM
The post was inappropriate for the Cafe, off topic and plainly immature.

The action by staff to jail the post and issue an infraction is fully supported.

Hell yes, it was immature. That was the whole point of the joke. But no where in your Forum Rules does it say that I can get an infraction for being immature. Nor does the description of the infraction claim that was why I received it (it says something like "inappropriate language" not "immature behaviour"). The explanation above may be true, and may have been a good reason for removing the post, but certainly not for issuing a warning against "inappropriate language".

I really fail to see the inappropriateness of it. It was a very polite word, describing a very common, healthy human activity. As said before, the word has numerous less polite slang-versions associated with it, but I deliberately did not use those (though I almost certainly would have in a verbal conversation with my friends) for that exact reason. Or to put it another way: there's really no chance it hell I could possible, ever, limit myself to not using that kind of word, under any circumstances, because it would be the equivalent of not being allowed to use words like "kissing" or "sex" (which falls into the same "polite description of sexual activities" as the word I used. Such words have been completely acceptable since Queen Victoria died and I for one do not intend to stop using them now or ever.

matthew
January 6th, 2008, 04:12 PM
I've looked into this and I agree with KiwiNZ. The joke was inappropriate.

If you are sitting in your house, just hanging out with your friends, feel free to make any joke you like. If they think you are a childish boor, they will laugh at you or tell you and move on. If they think you are funny, they will enjoy it. Either way, your relationship and reputation are not in jeopardy and you are representing only yourself.

This is a public forum. Anyone can read what is written by you. Many who do so will base their impressions of Ubuntu, Linux, and also the forums management on things you write. When crude or tasteless jokes are allowed to remain and people see them, and then notice that nothing is done about them, it will be assumed that the forums management, Ubuntu and Canonical all condone it. Is that right or fair? Perhaps not, but I guarantee it happens on a regular basis.

You received the infraction instead of a warning because you have already received polite warnings and requests to moderate your language and tone. It seems as though you are not interested in compliance...that is your choice. Giving a reminder is our choice. We can do this by way of an infraction, putting your posts into a moderation queue where they will have to be approved by a staff member before they appear in the forums, or a temporary ban.

rune0077
January 6th, 2008, 04:32 PM
I've looked into this and I agree with KiwiNZ. The joke was inappropriate.


I agree completely with the fact that the joke itself was inappropriate. 100%. Hence I am not angry that the post was removed, nor even the infraction if it had been given for that reason. Fact of the matter is, that is was given for the language used, not the actual content (that's what the explanation said), and there's nothing even slightly inappropriate about the language.



You received the infraction instead of a warning because you have already received polite warnings and requests to moderate your language and tone. It seems as though you are not interested in compliance...that is your choice.


This is not a matter of what I am interested in, but what I am capable of. I have every interest in following the rules (which was why I moderated the tone and used a different word than I might else have done), but apparently is unable to comply to rules (both written and unwritten) that applies here. This is not because I don't want to, but because words that seems to me normal, even polite, and which would never have raised an eyebrow around any social circles I have ever been part of or even heard of (save maybe the extremely religious and the very uneducated), are here considered inappropriate.

matthew
January 6th, 2008, 04:39 PM
The person who issued the infraction used "inappropriate language" because there wasn't a more suitable category. The intent was not to say "vocabulary that was inappropriate for the audience" but rather "making a joke that was inappropriate for the context," which is still an issue with the use of language.

Really, we are arguing about semantics, not about whether an infraction/warning was deserved/earned.

rune0077
January 6th, 2008, 04:45 PM
Well not really. The person who did report the post PM'ed me to let me know he did it (which I kinda appreciate), and he stated explicitly that it was because of that one word. I realize that you do not represent him (her?), but the post was reported because of that one word, and it seems unlikely that the infraction would have been given if the post had not been reported.

matthew
January 6th, 2008, 05:07 PM
I just read the report and the infraction again. You are correct. The post was reported because of the use of the word. The infraction was also issued for that reason.

If that were the only issue, I would probably reverse the infraction.

Based on the reasoning I gave earlier, about how the post was inappropriate based on context, I will let the infraction stand. Although, I must say, I can't think of a good reason that masturbation would need to be a topic of discussion in a Linux support forum anyway.

If it would make you feel better, I can reverse the infraction and issue a new one with different language, but with all other details (point value and duration) the same.

rune0077
January 6th, 2008, 08:41 PM
Based on the reasoning I gave earlier, about how the post was inappropriate based on context, I will let the infraction stand. Although, I must say, I can't think of a good reason that masturbation would need to be a topic of discussion in a Linux support forum anyway.


Me neither, except to say that it was posted in the café, where there's lots of threads, ranging from guitar-play to favourite movies, that has nothing to do with "topics of discussion in a Linux support forum".



If it would make you feel better, I can reverse the infraction and issue a new one with different language, but with all other details (point value and duration) the same.

No, that's okay. I just wanted some kind of confirmation that the word I used is not considered an offensive word, and that it is, in fact, a commonly accepted word not just in my culture, but in 90% of the world's cultures - that it's a common dictionary word, and a word teachers can safely use in front of the kids they teach, etc, etc...

KiwiNZ
January 7th, 2008, 04:19 AM
Me neither, except to say that it was posted in the café, where there's lots of threads, ranging from guitar-play to favourite movies, that has nothing to do with "topics of discussion in a Linux support forum".



No, that's okay. I just wanted some kind of confirmation that the word I used is not considered an offensive word, and that it is, in fact, a commonly accepted word not just in my culture, but in 90% of the world's cultures - that it's a common dictionary word, and a word teachers can safely use in front of the kids they teach, etc, etc...

The context in which it was used , and its intention made it violate our rules.