Ignorant retail employees and conversion of another person

[bufsabre666]

on a trip to best buy today (well is 2:46am so yesterday) i happend across this situation:

setup:
seller: women 30-40ish
employee: man no older then 25
product being eyeballed: hp pavillian desktop
issue: operating system

i was looking at the gfx cards ((i was in there to get flash memory cause 2gb sd was 15$)) and in the adjacent isle there was a women in a discussion with a very condescending young man ((even though hes probably older then myself)) i heard the word linux and my nerd sense was tingling. i over heard the next few lines of dialog (im paraphrasing)

women: but do i really need this computer it costs more then i wanted to pay
sales associate: well if you want to really run these programs under windows vista you really need a better computer
women: well i have xp at home and it works just fine and its an older machine
associate: well vista includes more features and is more secure then windows but subsequently needs more system resources to run
women: but i heard from a friend about some linux thing that started with a u ((im guessing ubuntu but theres more that are u so i wont make the assumption))
associate: well linux has proven to be not as secure as windows and it cant run all your necessary programs like standard fire walls and anti viruses
.....

discouraged by this the women explained that she could not infact afford this and left on her way, before she left i had stopped her and explained the linux situation in a brighter light

i explained everything we know about security and that linux infact has firewalls and antiviruses but they happen to be less necessary, and how linux was infact alot more secure

then we talked about it and went over all the wrong things the associate had told her, we went over to the computer rack and we got her a mid range computer ~400$, and we then went to my car in which i had a copy of a linux mint live cd ((which i happen to keep in my cd case along with an ubuntu disk and a fedora disk(i gave her mint cause its more out of the box runny))) and my cell number and told her how to install her program using wine

she wrote all this down, got home installed her computer and installed linux and called me back later thanking me for my help and exclaiming her new found love of her operating system. i told her of these forums for help with other issue so for all i know shes looking at this as i speak

i just wanted to share a story with you, my friends at the ubuntu forums

and if any of you work at a computer retail outlet, please dont try to cloud the facts for others =)

((and as a side note, ive come across a similar thing in the past at a circuit city but i didnt speak up cause linux was user friendly then but not as user friendly as i consider it now, mint being my cited example))

[jinx099]

I wish there were preinstalled Ubuntu (or any distro) computers at retailers, and some knowlegeable employees who could tell you the pros and cons of Vista vs Linux. I'm happy to see that there are no tech-savvy willing to try alternatives, unlike my family.

I wish you and the lady good luck, I hope she doesn't need to call you in the future!

[bufsabre666]

I wish there were preinstalled Ubuntu (or any distro) computers at retailers, and some knowlegeable employees who could tell you the pros and cons of Vista vs Linux. I'm happy to see that there are no tech-savvy willing to try alternatives, unlike my family.

I wish you and the lady good luck, I hope she doesn't need to call you in the future!

she seemed really willing to do it, and she said she loved the installing system, maybe she can convert a couple more people, she makes number 6 ive converted, but im just doing my part to take away bug #1 since im okay with c++ and python but other then that my programming skills are sub par so i cant fix any other bugs

[K.Mandla]

Cool story, thanks. :D

[LaRoza]

I often lurk in the computer aisles in store, listening to clerks.

This one was interesting, in a Target (which doesn't really sell computers, although the have some computer equipment)

This sales guy was walking around with an older women talking about Linux, he was confused, but not because of Linux. I heard him explain Linux was another operating system and that Windows and Mac OSX are operating systems, and that some like Linux better. The woman asked for it (for some reason) but didn't know what it was. Apparently, she was having an issue with a wireless network.

She was saying what someone else told her, but she forgot the specifics, and she tried to describe her situation more, than the clerk suddenly understood she didn't want "Linux" but "LinkSys", a router.

[ZapalacX]

:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:: That's priceless!

[bufsabre666]

She was saying what someone else told her, but she forgot the specifics, and she tried to describe her situation more, than the clerk suddenly understood she didn't want "Linux" but "LinkSys", a router.

well im a big fan of both linux and linksys, and they make a great network, especially if you get a linux based router os, like dd-wrt and openwrt

[Scarath]

the OP is a heartwarming story indeed.

Its odd how so many people who work in computer shops are like this, they know very little but speak asif they have all the answers.

You shud have cut that guy off mid-sentence and ranted at him ... although i suppose the polite method was more effective :D

[bufsabre666]

the OP is a heartwarming story indeed.

Its odd how so many people who work in computer shops are like this, they know very little but speak asif they have all the answers.

You shud have cut that guy off mid-sentence and ranted at him ... although i suppose the polite method was more effective :D

i would of trust me, but i worked at compusa about a year ago and we were commission based and i dont want to mess with a mans paycheck

[LaRoza]

Its odd how so many people who work in computer shops are like this, they know very little but speak asif they have all the answers.



I agree that most of them are not all that computer literate beyond the basics, but they often are very open. When I was trying out a live distribution on the laptops in Circuit City, they were very interested in it. (All of them)

They allowed me to test my disks, and I did buy a laptop. In the words of Golam, "It is precious to me"

I also had employees of various stores ask me questions for clarification. Also, they tell me NOT to ask questions. (I am well known :))

[Spike-X]

Good work, bufsabre!

[prizrak]

Hehe nice.
In my experience employees at chain stores know nothing other than their (limited) training. I had one try to convince me to buy a $60 (4") monster HDMI cable because that had gas pockets and was shielded from interference.... Obviously I didn't and when I tried to explain to him that it makes no difference for a digital signal over 4" of cable he called me arrogant and a know it all.

[bufsabre666]

Hehe nice.
In my experience employees at chain stores know nothing other than their (limited) training. I had one try to convince me to buy a $60 (4") monster HDMI cable because that had gas pockets and was shielded from interference.... Obviously I didn't and when I tried to explain to him that it makes no difference for a digital signal over 4" of cable he called me arrogant and a know it all.

i love being a know it all, id call him out infront of his colleagues and managers and explain to him how signal doesnt degrade until 100 meters or so
60$ is way too much for a cable

[-grubby]

great story! At least you saved her from the salesmen's (villain's) lies. But he probably has no idea what he's talking about anyways

[BLTicklemonster]

she seemed really willing to do it

... and?



:popcorn:

[kevdog]

Good story, but I dont know if I would have been as forward as you. All I need is one lady and then some of her friends calling me for computer help. I get a lot of that from my family and its really kind of frustrating. I dont know how people in computer call-in support can do it all day!

[Lostincyberspace]

Hehe nice.
In my experience employees at chain stores know nothing other than their (limited) training. I had one try to convince me to buy a $60 (4") monster HDMI cable because that had gas pockets and was shielded from interference.... Obviously I didn't and when I tried to explain to him that it makes no difference for a digital signal over 4" of cable he called me arrogant and a know it all.
4 inches or 4 feet?

4" = 4 inches
4' = 4 feet

There is a big difference.

[Spike-X]

4 inches or 4 feet?

4" = 4 inches
4' = 4 feet

There is a big difference.
It's like Spinal Tap all over again!

[Presto123]

That's nuts. He was a Vista barker.

The main person that really got me interested in Ubu WAS a Best Buy employee. He was cool though. I asked him about dual-booting with Linux (Easiest to install question.) and he suggested Ubuntu and said he could install it for me some time. He had to tell me all the nutso computer setups he had.

I think this dude had like 5 TB of storage and 10 computers just for media usage. Nuts.

I think all this was prompted by this:

HIM: "Oh, and what kind of videos do you download."
Me: "Errr...it's mostly the hard-to-find stuff."
Him: "SO...you watch Anime?"
Me: "Uhhhh...yeah." (Surprising how quickly he caught on to this.)

[Iehova]

Hats off to the OP, and a great story. :)

[prizrak]

4 inches or 4 feet?

4" = 4 inches
4' = 4 feet

There is a big difference.

4 Feet sorry hit the wrong button :)

[Zero Prime]

I think it is really amazing how little salesman know about computers. Even computer techs seem to be very unknowledgeable about operating systems. I had one tech look at my computer because it wouldn't turn on. He tried a different power supply and it booted fine. When I logged on to the system he stared at it for a second and then said, "you know this software is free for a reason right." I replied by asking what he means. He said that Linux is known to have bugs and get lots of viruses. I gave him the best reply I could think of. "So you would rather pay for an OS that you know is buggy instead of getting an OS for free that you think might be buggy, and as for viruses, why would a hacker write a virus to infect a smaller user base?" He hushed. And then I showed him Nexiuz. First thing he asked was how much was the game and where could he get it from. I laughed and told him it is more "freeware".

[Spike-X]

When I logged on to the system he stared at it for a second and then said, "you know this software is free for a reason right." I replied by asking what he means. He said that Linux is known to have bugs and get lots of viruses.

As opposed to the one he'd be happy to sell you for hundreds of dollars?

[Sporkman]

i just wanted to share a story with you, my friends at the ubuntu forums

Nice work! :thumbsup:

[barbedsaber]

I was at a computer (and whitegoods) store in Adelaide, and someone was saying that they were getting a thing on vista saying they couldnt use word anymore, becacuse the free trial had expired, I mentioned open office, free, have to pay for word, and the sales guy said that open office didn't work in vista, I felt l;ike an ideot,m but I was wondering, was he lying so that he could make a ms office sale.

just wondering.

[Sporkman]

... and?



:popcorn:

Oooh la LA!!

[Sporkman]

4 inches or 4 feet?

4" = 4 inches
4' = 4 feet

There is a big difference.

Oooh la LA!!

[oldos2er]

Yes, there's an Open Office for Vista.

[joe.turion64x2]

I was at a computer (and whitegoods) store in Adelaide, and someone was saying that they were getting a thing on vista saying they couldnt use word anymore, becacuse the free trial had expired, I mentioned open office, free, have to pay for word, and the sales guy said that open office didn't work in vista, I felt l;ike an ideot,m but I was wondering, was he lying so that he could make a ms office sale.

just wondering.
He was lying. Recently I did that (converted a friend to OpenOffice.org thanks to Office 2007 end-of-trial). OpenOffice.org 2.3 works just fine with Vista and even faster than Office 2007. I just had to set it up so it automatically saved files in MS format (as needed by my friend).

Joe.

[barbedsaber]

Yes, there's an Open Office for Vista.

you have no I dea how angry i am, that lying sales <explitive deleted> He looked at me , eye to eye, and lied. this has fueld my enthusiasim for distrubuting ubuntu an open source software, because money corrupts. ::-x:-x:-x:!:](*,)

[Linuxratty]

Excellent work!
It's such a shame stores just sell one flavot of OS.
I'm glad you helped one person.

[barbedsaber]

Do you reckon I could use my new laptop (which is being deliverd today and will have vista installed, I will dual boot ubuntu obviously) install open office onto vista partion, and go have arguement with the lying sales guy?

[rockin_goliath]

I had a very similar experience in Circuit City. There was a lady that was asking a clerk about word processor programs, and he immediately jumped over to a $600 VERSION OF MS OFFICE!!!! She was outraged and said she couldn't afford it, so as she was leaving I ran after her and wrote down the OpenOffice website for her. I explained to her all about how the open source community works, but she just couldn't believe me when I said OpenOffice is free!

[Presto123]

Surely you can:
http://download.openoffice.org/2.3.1/index.html

Keep Firefox up in that link when you go and show him that it says "All Versions".

[joe.turion64x2]

I had a very similar experience in Circuit City. There was a lady that was asking a clerk about word processor programs, and he immediately jumped over to a $600 VERSION OF MS OFFICE!!!! She was outraged and said she couldn't afford it, so as she was leaving I ran after her and wrote down the OpenOffice website for her. I explained to her all about how the open source community works, but she just couldn't believe me when I said OpenOffice is free!
Fot the task of 'converting' people I always carry in my USB Storage devices (HDD, MP3, Flash) a handy copy of OO.org.

[Presto123]

Fot the task of 'converting' people I always carry in my USB Storage devices (HDD, MP3, Flash) a handy copy of OO.org.

Good thought! I think I will add it to my card. Anyone think of some other good USB programs?

I currently have Puppy on USB for (mostly) personal use--all 98 mb of it. Got 1.8 gigs to go.

[barbedsaber]

I think it is about time open source (namely linux and open office) revoulutionised the software industry. I think it is about time that we as linux users stepped up to the plate, and made and active contribution to the distrubution of open source software. not just handing out a few cds here and thnere,. but ALWAYS keeping a stack handy, handing out fliers and cds outside computer shops, (maybe I am going over the top) my point is, we can makle a real difference, vista was terrible, and we can use that to our advantage. now is our chance to strike, we need to tell people about the spirit of ubuntu!

Am I going too far with this?

[p_quarles]

Good thought! I think I will add it to my card. Anyone think of some other good USB programs?

I currently have Puppy on USB for (mostly) personal use--all 98 mb of it. Got 1.8 gigs to go.
A bunch of portable Windows executables of OSS available here:
http://portableapps.com/

I have most of those on my USB flash drive. It's nice to be able to use what the software you like when you're on someone else's computer.

[Presto123]

A bunch of portable Windows executables of OSS available here:
http://portableapps.com/

I have most of those on my USB flash drive. It's nice to be able to use what the software you like when you're on someone else's computer.

Ooh...The Gimp. :)

TY for that.

[el_ricardo]

awesome success story! its a shame that most people aren't that openminded!

[joe.turion64x2]

Good thought! I think I will add it to my card. Anyone think of some other good USB programs?

I currently have Puppy on USB for (mostly) personal use--all 98 mb of it. Got 1.8 gigs to go.
This is what I carry around in my portable USB HDD:
-OpenOffice.org (several versions, you never know in which computer you are gonna install it).
-The GIMP.
-Songbird (to replace the crappy WMP).
-VirtualBox (to be able to create virtual machines).
-OGG Codecs (to be able to play my music files in any Windows machine).
-LATEX (Miktex + TeXnicCenter) for article editing.
-Scilab (alternative to MATLAB).
-Adobe Reader (I know it is not OSS but it is handy).
-Mozilla Firefox (don't need to explain).
-At least one ISO of a Linux distro.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I usually carry AVG (along with the updates), ZoneAlarm, and PDFCreator too.

In few words I carry around the needed stuff to gain control of any given computer I might use.

Joe.

[macogw]

Fot the task of 'converting' people I always carry in my USB Storage devices (HDD, MP3, Flash) a handy copy of OO.org.

My USB flash drive:

mack@downstairs:/media/disk$ ls OSX/
Adium_1.1.4.dmg GIMP_2.4.2_Tiger_Intel.dmg NeoOffice-2.2.2-Intel.dmg
Gimp_2.4.2_Intel_Leopard.dmg Inkscape-0.45.1-1-TIGER.UNIVERSAL.dmg QS.3814.dmg
mack@downstairs:/media/disk$ ls Windows/
aaw2007.exe gimp-2.4.2-i686-setup.exe pidgin-2.2.2.exe
avg75free_503a1205.exe Inkscape-0.45.1-1.win32.exe rssavers-0.1.zip
ccsetup202.exe install_flash_player.exe spybotsd15.exe
Firefox Setup 2.0.0.9.exe OOo_2.3.0_Win32Intel_install_wJRE_en-US.exe Thunderbird Setup 2.0.0.9.exe
Firefox Setup 3.0 Beta 1.exe PDFCreator-0_9_3_GPLGhostscript.exe
My friend Kevin calls it my "field medic kit."

Lots of nice FOSS for both OSX and Windows + all of the security stuff Windows needs to not die. Waiting for that stuff to download on Windows takes way too long from a security standpoint. This way, I can disconnect it from the internet so it doesn't get a virus while I wait for anti-virus to download.

I don't carry around Thunderbird and Firefox for Mac because Mail and Safari don't have Outlook and IE's horribly security issues, and Mail is a *very* nice mail client. Mail, Address Book, and iCal work together so well I'd be doing them a disservice by replacing them. Usually there's Camino (Firefox that fits in with Aqua properly) on there too, but I need to download the updated one. I just realized I should have Sunbird for Windows on there too though (doing those both right now).

[NovaAesa]

Do you reckon I could use my new laptop (which is being deliverd today and will have vista installed, I will dual boot ubuntu obviously) install open office onto vista partion, and go have arguement with the lying sales guy?

Yes you definitely should

[allforcarrie]

Yes you definitely should

I usee OO on vist insted of the crap it came winstalled with. I woudl rather get blank hard drive but, thats pretty hard for a laptop.

[Presto123]

Here's my list (At this point, only getting free or open source big-money replacements):

Puppy Linux
ClamWin AV (Don't know if I like this.)
VLC
Gimp
Eraser (Might come in handy)
Firefox
Open Office

[ivancamilov]

In my city (Bogota, Colombia), there's a sector of the city where most people do their tech shopping. People there are muuuuch more dishonest than what you describe... it's not even ignorance, it's just plain greed. That's why is so much better to do your shopping on the Web, because there are probably gonna be reviews from buyers.

[macogw]

ClamWin AV (Don't know if I like this.)
There's something about ClamWin that makes AVG better. I'm not positive, but I think it's that AVG runs all the time and scans all downloaded files but ClamWin only does what you say. Or maybe ClamWin doesn't auto-update. I forget what, exactly, but it was something that an AV should do itself since the user's unlikely to think about it.

[SomeGuyDude]

I wish there were preinstalled Ubuntu (or any distro) computers at retailers, and some knowlegeable employees who could tell you the pros and cons of Vista vs Linux. I'm happy to see that there are no tech-savvy willing to try alternatives, unlike my family.

I wish you and the lady good luck, I hope she doesn't need to call you in the future!

Not to be a killjoy, but Linux will never be promoted at a computer store. Ever.

[jinx099]

Not to be a killjoy, but Linux will never be promoted at a computer store. Ever.
Why do you say never? There are several companies that could make money from it such as Red Hat, Novell, Canonical, Mandriva, etc...

[popch]

Why do you say never? There are several companies that could make money from it such as Red Hat, Novell, Canonical, Mandriva, etc...

That's one thing the stores do not care about. They need revenues and not the warm glow of having furthered the cause of Open Source.

Now, if they had to pay each copy of Windows sold and could sell the PC for the same price with or without Windows...

[Jhongy]

Eh? Of course they'll ship more PCs if they can offer some with a lower price with a cheaper OS. Why would they not care? I can't imagine they get any margin from the preinstalled OS.

[kvonb]

-

[Samhain13]

...and they then give your business a bad name because you tried to charge them for your time!

Going for Windows is anybody's choice but having an issue with paying a technician for services and repairs is just ugly.

[popch]

If you do it properly, ie offer Linux to customers who need nothing more than Internet/email/letter writing (a bit simplified but you get the idea), then it can work perfectly well. Plus you can offer much cheaper machines than your competitors.

Yes, that's a business model I haven't thought of when I posted my reply. However, I think that it is applicable to smaller outfits mostly.

Still, there's hope. Look at Walmart with their cheap green PC running gOS. Look at Asus with the eee.

[bufsabre666]

well just as a little update, so far ive only gotten 2 calls, and 1 of them was to ask how to burn a copy for her son =) i love when things like these work out

her only problem really was the gfx drivers cause she wanted to try "this this compiz thing", i told her about envy and no problems since. shes been floating around these forums for much of her support, i dont know if she registerd but good luck to her if she sees this she should reg and say hello

im put put in an app to work at some of these stores and try to find more people like this

[rockin_goliath]

well just as a little update, so far ive only gotten 2 calls, and 1 of them was to ask how to burn a copy for her son =) i love when things like these work out

her only problem really was the gfx drivers cause she wanted to try "this this compiz thing", i told her about envy and no problems since. shes been floating around these forums for much of her support, i dont know if she registerd but good luck to her if she sees this she should reg and say hello

im put put in an app to work at some of these stores and try to find more people like this

One thing that I have found that makes my life SOOOO much easier in terms of giving tech support to the people I've switched to Ubuntu is Remote Desktop. I haven't been able to figure out how to use it with people that have dynamic ip addresses, but it is absolutely perfect for using on a university campus. My newly converted friends will send me an IM with a question or a problem, and I can just take control of their mouse and show them how! I also really hate having to explain to people over the phone what buttons to push; it is way easier to just do it yourself. :)

[popch]

I haven't been able to figure out how to use it with people that have dynamic ip addresses,

Put the remote desktop server into a small script. Have the script display the current IP address and your phone number on the screen. Have the user call you and dictate the IP address.

That worked quite well with my mother-in-law (using VNC in Windows).

[mips]

Put the remote desktop server into a small script. Have the script display the current IP address and your phone number on the screen. Have the user call you and dictate the IP address.

That worked quite well with my mother-in-law (using VNC in Windows).

Or you could ask them to just type ifconfig -a to get the ip.

[prizrak]

Or you could ask them to just type ifconfig -a to get the ip.

Won't work for anyone with a router (just about anyone these days really) you would need the external IP and the router has to be set up to forward the ports needed by VNC.

[DoctorMO]

Won't work for anyone with a router (just about anyone these days really) you would need the external IP and the router has to be set up to forward the ports needed by VNC.

You know I was thinking of starting a project to do that, work out what router it is and effectively trace out a route back tot he internet to allow ssh in. It would need plugins for different kinds of routers though.

[inversekinetix]

It's great that you could help somebody out and get them going with an alternative they could afford, but really some of the not so nice things said about less abled salespeople are not warranted. The salepeople are doing the job they have been hired to do, they're trying to make a living in a pretty thankless job.

[kevdog]

As far as the BB salesperson job. Yea it is a thankless job. They are there to sell product. If they tell some falsehoods to sell a product, who's fault is it really -- the seller or the buyer. I'd blame the buyer everytime for not doing the research.

[barbedsaber]

But the guy had just sold her a hugely overpriced operating system, (which is bad enough) and he jumped straghit to selling a god knows how mauch office suite, se wouldn't have had a clue, she was like one of those peole that dosn't understand the difference bettwen a computer and a moniter.

[Sef]

There's something about ClamWin that makes AVG better. I'm not positive, but I think it's that AVG runs all the time and scans all downloaded files but ClamWin only does what you say. Or maybe ClamWin doesn't auto-update. I forget what, exactly, but it was something that an AV should do itself since the user's unlikely to think about it.

Clam currently does not autoscan, but it planned for in Clam 2.0.

[kevdog]

Original response here removed by me voluntarily. Sorry to interrupt the flow of the thread!

[redpawn]

As far as the BB salesperson job. Yea it is a thankless job. They are there to sell product. If they tell some falsehoods to sell a product, who's fault is it really -- the seller or the buyer. I'd blame the buyer everytime for not doing the research.

I do blame the businesses that use this model. Hence I do not shop at the big box computer stores unless I need a small part right now. Lots of lost repeat business from me and many of you. Lots of one time customers.
Blaming the ignorant for being ignorant and not doing their research is not fair. This is the excuse used by con artists the world over. "It's their own fault. I didn't force them to buy it." sooths the perpetrator but it does not make it right.
I'm afraid businesses won't change till they run low on first time buyers or too many people in their area have been warned about them.
We don't have to be that way. It's not your fault if you don't know the ins and outs of Kubuntu.