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View Full Version : Didint really realise spyware was so bad on windows!



xequence
September 13th, 2005, 08:33 PM
I just reinstalled XP yesterday (Just on a partition, I still have ubuntu. My mp3 player needs xp.) and didnt do anything. I logged on to it today at 3:09 and by 3:18 it was loaded up with spyware. I wasnt trying to get spyware ether, I was trying not to e.e

So, my question is, when you used (or still do) windows was spyware a big problem for you? DId that make you consider linux?

Funny how spyware wasnt a big problem for me in windows ME (Spyware only made it unuseable twice, I had to format it) awhile back but on XP It is...

GParted all my problems away ;)

Stormy Eyes
September 13th, 2005, 08:41 PM
I chucked Windows before spyware became a problem -- back in 1999.

aysiu
September 13th, 2005, 08:51 PM
So, my question is, when you used (or still do) windows was spyware a big problem for you? DId that make you consider linux? The first time I got slammed with spyware was in XP June of last year, and it did make me want to try Linux. I tried Blag, and I got frustrated (Blag has improved a ton since then) because I didn't know how to use RPMs and meet dependencies. So I gave up. I discovered Firefox, and after that (and adjusting my security settings in Internet Explorer), spyware hasn't infected my XP system again.

I didn't start using Linux again until April of this year, and that was just because I hated Windowblinds' nagware, and I really wanted to customize my desktop.



Funny how spyware wasnt a big problem for me in windows ME (Spyware only made it unuseable twice, I had to format it) awhile back but on XP It is... I think spyware's a relatively recent phenomenon. I hadn't even heard of spyware before 2004.

xequence
September 13th, 2005, 08:51 PM
I chucked Windows before spyware became a problem -- back in 1999.

Lucky you ;) What was linux like way back when? (I know its not exactly along time ago, but there is very little info about linux between 1996 and 2002 that I can find o.o)


I think spyware's a relatively recent phenomenon. I hadn't even heard of spyware before 2004

I used only windows ME until a month ago, installed ubuntu, then dual booted with ME and ubuntu until two weeks ago when I got XP and installed that with ubuntu.

poofyhairguy
September 13th, 2005, 11:20 PM
So, my question is, when you used (or still do) windows was spyware a big problem for you? DId that make you consider linux?


Never was a big problem for me (I hate the viruses worse), but its definately a reason I'm considering Linux for my family.

majikstreet
September 13th, 2005, 11:43 PM
Mmmm.... Spyware..


Whenever my mom goes to www.msn.com in IE, she gets redirected to some ad page... LOL


majikstreet

matthew
September 14th, 2005, 12:01 AM
Spyware was a primary impetus in my switch...kind of. I hadn't had a great deal of trouble with it, but mainly that was because I was always vigilant, running multiple spyware detectors a couple of times a week along with my regular virus scans and windows updates and firewall checks and the list went on and on. I decided I wanted to use my computer for something other than maintaining my computer.

EDIT: forgot to include the need for defragmenting

Now I use the time I spent with all that stuff hanging out in these forums, on the wiki, all over the web and reading books to educate myself on using Linux and share what I learn with others.

I thought it was a good trade.

Quest-Master
September 14th, 2005, 01:02 AM
Meh, I'm on (and have been on) Windows for the past many weeks after Hoary failed on me, and I haven't been struck by a single virus or piece of spyware yet.

Of course, for those who don't have the proper protection, you'll definitely be getting it. You just need to run smart on Windows and make sure you've secured yourself.. one thing you don't have to worry about much on Linux.

endy
September 14th, 2005, 01:13 AM
Meh, I'm on (and have been on) Windows for the past many weeks after Hoary failed on me, and I haven't been struck by a single virus or piece of spyware yet.

Of course, for those who don't have the proper protection, you'll definitely be getting it. You just need to run smart on Windows and make sure you've secured yourself.. one thing you don't have to worry about much on Linux.

This is why Linux may be the perfect choice for beginners and casual users and why Windows is only good for experienced users. Who'd have thought?

poofyhairguy
September 14th, 2005, 01:15 AM
This is why Linux may be the perfect choice for beginners and casual users and why Windows is only good for experienced Windows users.

Fixed.

darkoptix
September 14th, 2005, 02:10 AM
I have never had a problem with spyware in Windows XP. Never. I have had issues with my computer having spyware, but never a problem that resulted in a slower computer. I don't know how people get so much; maybe the use of Internet Explorer, or whatnot. I have never ran a antivirus on Windows XP, and have only had one type of virus that has ever affected me. I only run that firewall that came with Service Pack 2, and goto trusted porn sites. Trust me stick by these rules and anyone can be spyware and virus semi-clean. Or just install a linux distrobution of some sort.

endy
September 14th, 2005, 02:26 AM
Hang on a second there... You say you don't get spyware and only ever had one virus but you say you "have never ran a antivirus on Windows XP" so I ask, how do you know you haven't got any viruses? :roll:

Personally I would advise Windows users to get a good firewall like the free ZoneAlarm and do periodic checks with a free AV scanner like AVG, it pays to be safe :)

MetalMusicAddict
September 14th, 2005, 02:34 AM
Im kinda in the same boat as darkoptix. But I have always had a hardware firewall and been completely paranoid. Never had a virus. Had Norton but It didnt run actively. Just scanned everything I downloaded. Most spyware i had was Alexia (from MS) or some cookies. :)

DRM/quest for knowlege is making me switch.

benplaut
September 14th, 2005, 02:59 AM
i never had problems with it, except for Internet Optimizer on the family comp a few years ago...

those were the early days of spyware :roll:

i switched because i was bored...

rolfotto
September 14th, 2005, 03:16 AM
Was a big problem here plus major reason I switched.

I tried to do a lot of precautions like adaware, spywareblaster,firefox+adblock, MS Antispyware beta, AVG antivirus. Never installed P2P programs like Kazaa but did try a lot of utilitarian/business orientated shareware from "reputable sites." Which probably was my mistake. But unlike most Windows users, I tried NOT to run as root except when a program installation/something else required it. Even then, I tried the "Run As...." trick first.

A lot of windows software just jacked my computer by starting up on default (even though I tried several programs/utilities to specify whether programs can start-up and in what order, those got overwritten or ignored somehow) and that caused start up time to take forever (on a 2.6Ghz P4). Last straw was a keylogger that must have been installed by malware (computer was always login from startup to screensaver which popup after 5 min) - didn't detect it through any spyware program - just noticed that activity from my logs of my routing computer that passwords (which had nothing to do with websites) were being sent. Along with everything else I typed:(

Now I stay away from Windows with a 10 foot pole. My only advice to Windows users: Switch to something else, anything else. And if you can't do that, just be aware that all your spyware-detector programs can't catch everything - don't have a false sense of security about that.

bdash
September 14th, 2005, 05:30 AM
Lucky you ;) What was linux like way back when? (I know its not exactly along time ago, but there is very little info about linux between 1996 and 2002 that I can find o.o)


I'm using Linux since 1996 (but I dropped Windows later...). In 1996 it was fun to play with console, but there was few interesting XWindow applications... Apart from Emacs, xfig and Netscape. So we just had fvwm for window management, and fvwm95 for people coming from Windows 95 (!)

We really lacked a good toolkit. There was Motif (ugly and proprietary) with its free clone Lesstif. And the super-ugly Xaw.

Until 1998 the Window Manager get better and better. First Afterstep (Next looks good), the WindowMaker (Next again !) and Enlightenment (more eye-candy than proprietary systems). In the meantime The Gimp appeared, maybe the first Open Source desktop application to compete with proprietary software. Gimp started using Motif, but it was not satisfying so they developped The Gimp ToolKit (GTK).

In 1998, it was the revolution with KDE. We had a desktop, i.e. a set of homogeneous applications to perform basic tasks: file management, window management, text editor, calculator, basic games...

But it was based on Qt, not free at that time. So the Gnome project started as a rewrite of Kde using Gtk. Very soon they realized that rewritte Kde was not funny, and Gnome became an independant project.

So, as a conclusion: in 1999, with Kde 1, Linux was just starting to attack the desktop market!

GoA
September 14th, 2005, 06:29 AM
Spyware is only problem for stupid users. Which are most of the people.They coulnd't handle linux either.

aysiu
September 14th, 2005, 06:40 AM
Spyware is only problem for stupid users. Which are most of the people.They coulnd't handle linux either. Quite the contrary--Linux is perfect for most (even stupid) users, as long as they're not running as root and they have icons for frequently used programs.

Idiots can't install and configure Linux, but then again they can't install and configure Windows either.

GoA
September 14th, 2005, 07:14 AM
I see your point and it seems right. :)

Then there are also stupid users on linux side who have to do reinstall once a week because want to play with thing and broke the whole system. :D Happend a lot with breezy. :P

Galoot
September 14th, 2005, 07:23 AM
My computer never had spyware on it when I ran Windows. No viruses and no trojans, either. Not a one. But the stress of knowing I was playing tortoise and hare with the script kiddies wore me down enough to make the switch to Linux look more and more inviting. It's not the only reason I switched, by far, but it was one consideration.


I never got spam, either. Well, not until this spring when my son in college sent me a form letter through bebo.com that read:

Hi
I am updating my address book and it would be very helpful if you could click on the link below and enter your contact details for me:

bebo.com/some-random-alphanumeric-string

I am using a service that keeps contact details current, just update your own contact details and then the changes appear in selected friends' address books. When I update my contact details you will see them in your address book. Thank you for helping.
Trevor...to which I replied:
I'm your dad! You already know where I live. I promise I won't move away and change my name without telling you first. Deal?
- PaOnce that stupid site got my address via my son, the spam started. Funny how that works, eh?*


What was the topic again? Oh yeah. The Windows computer the kids use is infested and gets cleaned every other day.

(* I wrote him out of my will a week later.)

rolfotto
September 14th, 2005, 07:41 AM
Spyware is only problem for stupid users. Which are most of the people.They coulnd't handle linux either.

That's pretty much the attitude that keeps some people from Linux :( And I wonder if everyone who runs Ubuntu could handle something like a Linux From Scratch distro with their l33t hacking skillz :roll:

Sometimes, it's not the Windows users that are always stupid, it's how the Operating System is set up that's stupid - setting things like ActiveX and all those services on by default, not too mentioning running scripts form outlook, etcetera.

The end user can't be to blame because he simply wants a tool to work with and he's handed a lemon.

Teroedni
September 14th, 2005, 09:33 AM
Havent got any problems with Xp and Adware spam and such
My biggest problem in Xp was the da... registry which contais thousand of files after uninstall of programs
The registry in windows is really stupid:(

I have used Ubuntu for half a year now, and some days ago i had to fix an xp computer which had quit a bit spy/adware on it. It was almost 1000 different files ](*,)

And i had to look for a while to be able to get an regular good adware remover who dident cost$$$$
Luckily i found a freeware on Tucows.com:)

One other day i was wisiting an Windows/Gaming friend and he was going to show me a great game.
The problem was that his machine was so full of ...... that nothing work. He was barely able to surf and then he got tons of adware on his screen . I had never seen such a crippled machine before :???:

npaladin2000
September 14th, 2005, 10:11 AM
Heck, you want to hear a bad one? My mother uses Internet Explorer because it looks better than Firefox (do NOT ask me how). Problem is, she gets popups, of course. Those things that say that "Your SystemMay Be Infected" and the OK button...and SHE CLICKS OK!!!

I then deleted every link to Internet Explorer that could be found. And told her that if she clicks on popups ever again, I'd make her learn Linux. THAT scares her...she uses MSN Money ;)

Kvark
September 14th, 2005, 10:50 AM
Once I got like 20 different kinds of viruses from a single popup (I did not click on it, just just poped up, and then the viruses where in). I sure did not expect Internet Explorer to have some kind of feature that made it possible for a HTML page to install and run programs on my computer. The only damage it did was making me spend the afternoon cleaning up the mess.

After that I became paranoid about security settings, firewall, traffic logs, anti adware, anti virus and such. My email address is even in latin so spambots can't spell it right, I get only about 2 or 3 spam mails per year. Had only minor problems with tracking cookies, javascript viruses and other harmless stuff after that, it really helps to be paranoid.


I never got spam, either. Well, not until this spring when my son in college sent me a form letter through bebo.com that read:

...to which I replied:

Once that stupid site got my address via my son, the spam started. Funny how that works, eh?*
It is just as easy to fake an email as it is to fake a good old snailmail. But with email you can make a program do the faking automatically. Never ever reply to or click any links in an email that seems out of character for the person/corporation the mail claims to be from. Ask over phone or a chat program if he/she/them really sent that mail.

Heliode
September 14th, 2005, 11:56 AM
So, my question is, when you used (or still do) windows was spyware a big problem for you? DId that make you consider linux?




To answer your question, yes spyware is a very big problem in the Windows world, and yes, it certainly played a part in my decision to switch to Linux completely.
I did one of my internships for a company that administrated over 500 primary schools... I was the one who had to jump on a bicycle and ride it across the city every time a PC in a primary school contracted spyware and showed naked women to the little kids... And this happened lots of times. Lots of lots of times.
So you might see why I'm not particularly fond of it :p

dcraven
September 14th, 2005, 02:37 PM
I just wanted to interject with something here.. I'm not knocking or promoting any operating environment either. Just because you don't have Bonzai Buddy swinging across your desktop, or big flashing lights and sirens coming from your system tray, this does not indicate that you have no spyware on your system.

The famous and quickly detectable spywares are the ones written to be obnoxious or visually attractive to the user. These offer great new features or trickery to make you install them. This type of malware is well known, and visible. It's also recognized by Adaware and such because of this. It's the malware that was written to not be obnoxious or noticable that is the issue. The one-off malwares or silent malwares that aren't detected, so aren't reported. It's fairly trivial (less so with SP2, mind you) to write malware that is quiet, yet serves a purpose like a keylogger.

It is quite possible that you do not have any malware on your machine. If someone were to ask me to bet money on it though, I'd confidently bet on the fact that there are several programs installed on there that you did not explicitly ask for. Calling these programs "malware" really depends on the intent of these programs and your definition of the term. What is troubling to me, is that the activities performed by this software that you didn't ask for, and that runs continuously on your machine in some cases, is completely up to the discression of its author, and not you. The author of this software may be a nice guy, and therefore it might only log your web activity in terms of what sites you visit for marketing data. But maybe he's a prick, and also logs your passwords. Regardless of what it's doing, rest assured that it is there and serving a purpose to someone other than you, regardless of how benign that purpose may be.

Cheers,
~djc

Brunellus
September 14th, 2005, 02:49 PM
Heck, you want to hear a bad one? My mother uses Internet Explorer because it looks better than Firefox (do NOT ask me how). Problem is, she gets popups, of course. Those things that say that "Your SystemMay Be Infected" and the OK button...and SHE CLICKS OK!!!

I then deleted every link to Internet Explorer that could be found. And told her that if she clicks on popups ever again, I'd make her learn Linux. THAT scares her...she uses MSN Money ;)
I seem to recall someone around here skinning firefox to look exactly like IE for his father, who preferred the "look and feel." The experiment seemed to be a total success.

MinoltaLuvR
September 14th, 2005, 03:00 PM
since i havnt been using windows much lately. i havnt had to do the spyware scans, the AV scans the firewall dance, etc etc.. i've been going to bed sooner and getting up earlier.. hehe linux is also good for your health too;)


cheers
john.

aysiu
September 14th, 2005, 03:07 PM
(* I wrote him out of my will a week later.) I hope you're kidding. Email return addresses can be faked quite easily, you know. Or, some kinds of malware hijack your address book and send emails out from your account.

poofyhairguy
September 14th, 2005, 08:31 PM
Spyware is only problem for stupid users. Which are most of the people.They coulnd't handle linux either.

Just because someone does not know enough about computers to hide from spyware does not make them stupid.

Heliode
September 14th, 2005, 08:45 PM
Spyware is only problem for stupid users. Which are most of the people.They coulnd't handle linux either.

Except that you don't have to actually do anything to get spyware... If you leave a freshly installed WinXP machine directly connected to the internet for a while, it takes an average of 12 minutes for it to become infected. And if you are crazy enough to use a tool that come with the OS to do your surfing (IE), you better not use it to actually go anywhere because you can get infected without even having to conferm anything (big thanks there ActiveX).

Expecting your OS to work doesn't make a person 'stupid'.

xequence
September 14th, 2005, 08:59 PM
Oh, and just to say something else... P2P has never gotten me a virus when I used windows. 800 song downloads and no viruses from it =O

Oh, and on that XP Install, I used IE to download and install opera and download drivers. SPyware even affected opera, changing IE and opera homepage. I just thought, my little brother uses windows... No chance im gonna take a chance and just try to take the spyware off. Im gonna format...

blastus
September 14th, 2005, 09:55 PM
What really floors me are the ActiveX dialers and the fact that even MS-Windows XP OFFERS ABSOLUTELY NO KIND OF PROTECTION AGAINST MODEM DIALOUT!!!!! You have to $buy$ a freaken program if you want to prevent programs from dialing out. IMO, MS-Windows software has suffered a massive credibility problem, especially free proprietary software. But if you want firewall, antivirus, antispyware, download manager etc... unless you want to fork over $$$ and annual subscription $$$, you have to use free proprietary software. And before you get antispyware software, you better check out that it is not on this list http://www.spywarewarrior.com/rogue_anti-spyware.htm.

I got one of those ActiveX dialers back when I was a fool and used MS-Windows 2000 and Internet Explorer. Fortunately for me the dialer didn't work. I only found out about it much much later when I became wise to malware and installed Spybot Search & Destroy. That was back in 2001 or 2002 or something like that I can't remember. Now I only use MS-Windows for games and have disabled all network devices, network-related services (as far as I know them), and everything I possibly could in Internet Explorer. MS-Windows works fine, as long as it can't connect to the Internet.


A lot of windows software just jacked my computer by starting up on default.

I can't agree more. That irritates the crap out of me, even "legitimate" software does that. Unless you know how to edit the registry and know where to look you are screwed.

Galoot
September 15th, 2005, 12:04 AM
(* I wrote him out of my will a week later.)
I hope you're kidding. Email return addresses can be faked quite easily, you know. Or, some kinds of malware hijack your address book and send emails out from your account.Yeah, i know. I explain the concept all the time to folks wondering why their aunt is sending them viruses.

Anyway, it was him. We talked about it later, and he called me paranoid.

I now forward all my spam to him. :D