Firefox has only 16% browser market? That's all?

[logos34]

I saw this article (http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/vindu/2007/12/28/netscape-rip-aol-puts-dying-browser-out-of-its-misery/) today about death of Netscape. But it blew me away with this:


"Firefox has actually done pretty well against Microsoft Internet Explorer, the jack-booted thug that beat the original Netscape into a bloody pulp with its monopolistic truncheon. According to TechCrunch, Firefox has a 16.01% share of the Web browser market, compared to IE’s 77.35%. Netscape has a measly 0.6%."

I thought something like a quarter or a third of people used FF. Jeez, less than 2 out of 10 people are aware of FF? They must be unaware of it because otherwise they'd have switched. It's a no brainer. IE-any-version is pure crap; FF beats it hands-down. FF is far from perfect--in fact it's already a bloated whale of a browser--but it makes up for its faults with add-ons for just about everything.

After the much-ballyhooed grassroots effort to 'spread firefox', 16% is all? With results like that, I'd hate to know the figures for Open Office usage.

Reading this makes me despair of ever living to see linux become a significant--let alone dominant--presence in the desktop environment. People are incredibly stupid and myopic. It's not all down to MS's monopolistic tactics. Most people wouldn't know a better browser if it hit them in the face. So what hope is there for an alternative OS?

[ubukool]

yeah, it's kind of shocking, isn't it? I would have put FF's market share much higher than that. I've been using it for what feels like forever. Microsoft even....ahem....borrowed (stole!) their idea of browser tabs for IE.

I guess we have to face the facts that most computer user's knuckles are dragging along the ground and they are making "ooooh oooooh oooooh" noises (roughly translated as...Microsoft Rule). It doesn't bode well for human evolution :)

[jespdj]

It depends where you look. This article (http://core.tweakers.net/nieuws/48425/enthousiast-firefox-gebruik-in-europa-behalve-in-nederland.html) (in Dutch) says that in Europe, more than one out of four users use Firefox, although it's only 14.9% in the Netherlands. According to the article, in Slovenia and Finland 50% uses Firefox. These figures are from July 2007.

[Sockerdrickan]

add 20% http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

[macogw]

Where'd they get those stats? The World Wide Web Consortium says Firefox has 36%. (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp)

[-grubby]

I think the world firefox usage is about 33%. What kind of stats are those? From 2005?

[BreathEasy]

It depends where you look. This article (http://core.tweakers.net/nieuws/48425/enthousiast-firefox-gebruik-in-europa-behalve-in-nederland.html) (in Dutch) says that in Europe, more than one out of four users use Firefox, although it's only 14.9% in the Netherlands. According to the article, in Slovenia and Finland 50% uses Firefox. These figures are from July 2007.
Yeah, was just going to mention this. Usage depends enormously on the region. Europe seems pretty large. I know for a fact Firefox usage in South Korea is pathetically low due to their reliance on ActiveX.

It's the same reason why I don't see Windows being upended by Linux anytime soon. Marketing is more powerful than technical merit.

[Mateo]

It's not surprising at all. It just goes to show that MOST people use whatever is default and don't even look for alternatives unless they are extremely unhappy with the default. It's why when people say that linux is going to take over because people like open source, I always laugh my head off.

[JeffoOfMetal]

So, how is this Firefox Promotion going on? What do they encourage you to do?

*note: I'm looking for the page about it right now.

[ugm6hr]

It's the same reason why I don't see Windows being upended by Linux anytime soon. Marketing is more powerful than technical merit.


It's not surprising at all. It just goes to show that MOST people use whatever is default and don't even look for alternatives unless they are extremely unhappy with the default.

The MS marketing machine has made it such that enough people (home users) believe Internet Explorer is the internet. Why would you look for an alternative browser when you don't know what a browser is?

[plun]

So, how is this Firefox Promotion going on? What do they encourage you to do?

*note: I'm looking for the page about it right now.


Well, they work hard....:)

http://www.spreadfirefox.com/

For Linux its a never ending story with Totem problem, mplayer-plugins problem and devs which doesnt fix proprietary code.

The world is commercial...:popcorn:

[Vadi]

Not suprised at all, many people don't know about it.

(hence, let's keep firefox as the default browser)

[plun]

(hence, let's keep firefox as the default browser)

Well of course...:)

We have some strange projects such as Iceweasel and the Gnash player...:)

Opera filed a anti-trust case against MS and IE....:KS
http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/2007/12/13/

[logos34]

add 20% http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

That would be nice to believe but read the fine print:


W3Schools is a website for people with an interest for web technologies. These people are more interested in using alternative browsers than the average user. The average user tends to use Internet Explorer, since it comes preinstalled with Windows. Most do not seek out other browsers.

These facts indicate that the browser figures above are not 100% realistic. Other web sites have statistics showing that Internet Explorer is used by at least 80% of the users.

[plun]

That would be nice to believe but read the fine print:

Some people believes its enough to watch Ubuntu TV and read UbuntuPlanet...:)

If BBC is broken its a "Singing in the rain" problem...:)

[Sporkman]

The MS marketing machine has made it such that enough people (home users) believe Internet Explorer is the internet. Why would you look for an alternative browser when you don't know what a browser is?

Exactly.

[Knyven]

Well of course...:)

We have some strange projects such as Iceweasel and the Gnash player...:)

Opera filed a anti-trust case against MS and IE....:KS
http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/2007/12/13/

Its a sure win win. Bundling IE is more damaging than WMP.

[benerivo]

Originally Posted by ugm6hr
The MS marketing machine has made it such that enough people (home users) believe Internet Explorer is the internet. Why would you look for an alternative browser when you don't know what a browser is?

Originally Posted by Sporkman
Exactly.


Yes, but I don't think it's marketing. I can't remember ever seeing a windows advert. I think the reason that IE is so dominant is that when it comes to computers, the general public just take what they are given (and shops only sell pc's with windows).

They will also use windows media player, rather than winamp, and stick with windows rather than linux. I think this will only change on a human generation timescale. For example, most people today don't change their programs or os's because a) they don't know enough, b) they don't care enough. I'd guess most young people today have had enough exposure to know and care enough to make a change where neccasary.

[Johnsie]

I think those stats from the W3c can be misleading because it's an IT related site that endorses the w3c standards. The Firefox web browser and community are probably the biggest advocates of full implementation of w3c standards. So that site is naturally going to attract alot of firefox fans.

The best way to find how many people are using firefox would be to take stats from a number of mixed topic sites (not just IT sites) and take an average of the percentages.

[macogw]

Yes, but I don't think it's marketing. I can't remember ever seeing a windows advert. I think the reason that IE is so dominant is that when it comes to computers, the general public just take what they are given (and shops only sell pc's with windows).

They will also use windows media player, rather than winamp, and stick with windows rather than linux. I think this will only change on a human generation timescale. For example, most people today don't change their programs or os's because a) they don't know enough, b) they don't care enough. I'd guess most young people today have had enough exposure to know and care enough to make a change where neccasary.

There were Vista ads all over the big train station in New York City (I forget what it's called) when I went up there for Ubucon in February. What they meant about marketing making people think IE is the internet, though, is that by default in XP, IE is in the Start Menu, and it says "Internet" for its name. It's not listed as "Web Browser: Internet Explorer" or just "Internet Explorer". It's listed as being The Internet.

[JeffoOfMetal]

There were Vista ads all over the big train station in New York City (I forget what it's called) when I went up there for Ubucon in February. What they meant about marketing making people think IE is the internet, though, is that by default in XP, IE is in the Start Menu, and it says "Internet" for its name. It's not listed as "Web Browser: Internet Explorer" or just "Internet Explorer". It's listed as being The Internet.
That pisses me off so much. :mad:

[logos34]

It depends where you look... in Slovenia and Finland 50% uses Firefox. These figures are from July 2007.

Now that's more like it...one more reason to like the Finns and Scandanavians in general (just as an example the Danes are way out ahead on green issues). I think all that clear cold air makes for clear thinking...)



Originally Posted by ugm6hr
Why would you look for an alternative browser when you don't know what a browser is?

Got a point there...these people probably just learned to walk upright and stop dragging their knuckles on the ground as the other guy put it.



Originally Posted by BreathEasy
Usage depends enormously on the region. Europe seems pretty large. I know for a fact Firefox usage in South Korea is pathetically low due to their reliance on ActiveX.

I figured share was higher in Europe than U.S., but one would expect it to be a LOT higher. Global usage stats of 33% make more sense. Interesting about Korea--it's counterintuitive (despite what you said about directx) given the prominance of Korean firms in electronics production and high-tech--you'd think a tech-saavy culture would be more discriminating.

Frankly, I can't tell if those stats (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=0) referenced in the article claim to represent U.S. or global use.
But even if it's just the US, the fact is that FF usage is nowhere near what it should be given the fact that it's a readily available, easy-to-install, superior, free alternative to IE. And as a symptom of a larger problem (how to get people to think about viable alternatives) it speaks volumes.

[Warpnow]

I imagine it depends how you configure stats.

I bet the average FF user browses the web ALOT more than the average IE user, which means how most of these people do their stats- by hits, is bogus.

I doubt Firefox has more than 10% of the browser market in users. But the Firefox users are more likely to visit the sites more, and so it ranks higher. The guy who uses the internet once a month probably uses IE, but he's not being counted as much as the guy browsing the web nonstop on firefox.

It also, of course, depends on the kind of site compiling the stats. Firefox usage is probably up at ubuntu.com and down at the website of a nickelodeon show.

[benerivo]

Frankly, I can't tell if those stats (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=0) referenced in the article claim to represent U.S. or global use.

I'm sure it's global as they include a geographical filtering of their stats (subscribers only). I've also read that in China they use a variant of IE called maxthon (http://filehippo.com/download_maxthon/). There may be a common connection between this IE popularity in China and the high usage of IE in Korea that you mentioned. Take a look at the first few hits (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=korea+banks+vista&btnG=Google+Search&meta=) for an indication of the use and dependancy of IE in Korea.

[Bungo Pony]

Microsoft even....ahem....borrowed (stole!) their idea of browser tabs for IE.

Actually, it's been in Opera longer than it has been in FF and IE. Even Opera didn't come up with tabs. Some smudge of a web browser (can't remember the name) came up with the idea, and it caught on.

[Ptero-4]

Actually, it's been in Opera longer than it has been in FF and IE. Even Opera didn't come up with tabs. Some smudge of a web browser (can't remember the name) came up with the idea, and it caught on.

The browser you talk about is NetCaptor. And they didn't have tabbed browsing, what they had IIRC, was a feature called CaptorGroups which basically meant that after you had opened a bunch of sites (each one in it's own window) you could use an option to bookmark all of them and when you opened the "special" bookmark it would open a special tabbed window showing all of those sites. But you couldn't open new tabs or close them, instead you would just close the window when you were done reading the websites.

[Lostincyberspace]

Netscape was the first one to have tabbed browsing that I know of. It has had it since the late 90's 1998 era or so.

[Mateo]

no way, i don't think netscape had tabs until it started borrowing from mozilla. i'm fairly certain that opera was the first. i remember switching to it just for that reason. it was great.

[bruce89]

Still, it's higher than Epiphany's share.

[kevdog]

A little bit off topic -- but when is FF going to stop being bloatware?? I like the browser a lot but Ive read about a lot of the memory management issues.

[macogw]

A little bit off topic -- but when is FF going to stop being bloatware?? I like the browser a lot but Ive read about a lot of the memory management issues.

FF2's major feature was that it fixed a bunch of 1.5's memory issues. FF3 fixes more of them.

[Mateo]

A little bit off topic -- but when is FF going to stop being bloatware?? I like the browser a lot but Ive read about a lot of the memory management issues.

i feel for you there. One of the best things about Firefox is that it has been adopted as a platform for other types of apps. But it's also one of the worst things about Firefox. Miro, for example, is borderline unusable because of the bloat.

[logos34]

...But it's also one of the worst things about Firefox. Miro, for example, is borderline unusable because of the bloat.

For me Miro is unusable. (And I don't have all year to wait around for video to dl anyway. Slow dsl.) Songbird is probably the bloat champ by a large margin. Has anybody used it? I think the idea is great and I thought it had potential, but with a ram footprint of nearly 100 mb, not so sure. I not like it's a development bug that will be worked out. Ok, it's a combined browser and music app, but still...And the latest release only seems a marginal improvement over the previous one.

[Warpnow]

Firefox's low share is not near as surprising to me as how low Opera is. Its got so many features and is still lightweight. Plus they now make the Wii Browser, I figured that would bring them some name recognition.

[Scarath]

Jeez, less than 2 out of 10 people are aware of FF? They must be unaware of it because otherwise they'd have switched. It's a no brainer. IE-any-version is pure crap; FF beats it hands-down. FF is far from perfect--in fact it's already a bloated whale of a browser--but it makes up for its faults with add-ons for just about everything.

agreed, i have this friend that actually will NOT use FF because he says he's 'all microsoft' ... i think he's insane >.<

[23meg]

Firefox's low share is not near as surprising to me as how low Opera is. Its got so many features and is still lightweight.

If you think market share is in some way correlated with the merits of software such as richness in terms of features or lightness in terms of system resources, there's much out there to surprise you.

In today's IT economy, market share mainly depends on how well you can force things down people's throat. Actual capabilities come a far second.

If Firefox actually has 16%, that's a damn good success, considering how young it is, that it's bundled with next to nothing, that almost nothing requires it, and that almost all of its users use it by conscious choice.

[Tundro Walker]

The MS marketing machine has made it such that enough people (home users) believe Internet Explorer is the internet. Why would you look for an alternative browser when you don't know what a browser is?

I would agree with that. The average Windows user uses their computer like an over-grown iPod...they just want to turn it on, do email, surf the net, and play a game or two.

Think of it this way...RockBox is a really good "OS" replacement for iPod's ... if it's so good, why haven't more folks installed it on their iPod's? It's because most folks don't know they CAN switch to something else, let alone know where to look to do so or how to go about doing it.

Software's come a long way with being easy to install and run, but the average Windows user is still very paranoid about installing things...they're afraid it will screw something up. But that's because half the time, they install weird crap off the net that DOES screw something up, like stupid toolbars for IE, or some lame program that has embedded spyware, etc. They don't know what's quality software or what isn't, so they're paranoid about it all...unless it has shiney lights and makes funny noises...THEN they're all over it like idiots, installing it without thinking.

[Bllasae]

Lol, Netscape at 0.6%. Firefox is better than Internet Explorer any day.

[fankooch]

Don't expect "normal" home users to go to mozilla website and download FireFox. Generally FF is for geeks, same thing for linux. it's our mission to spread the word and encourage people to use it. Many windows users think that Internet=IE and that in order to access internet the only way to do so is to use IE. i know this is stupid but this is the truth.

As long as window$ is the "standard" Os for new Pc's, i think that FF will have a hard time beating IE in market share.

[kingkoopa]

Internet explorer: The greatest browser in the world. No other browser can download Mozilla FireFox like Internet Explorer.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=internet+explorer

[regomodo]

hmm, odd. all my housemates use firefox.

[shafin]

Internet explorer: The greatest browser in the world. No other browser can download Mozilla FireFox like Internet Explorer.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=internet+explorer
LOL

But the best one IMO is


A simple Windows XP tool which allows the user to browse to Mozilla.com and download Firefox, a web browser.

[GSF1200S]

I used IE for a long time.. I tried netscape but didnt really like it. I had no idea firefox existed. Then I saw some Firefox add, and gave it a download.

After I started checking out the extensions, I got hooked. Then, while looking up some things about Firefox, I heard about OSS. Then I found out about Linux.

2 months later I installed Ubuntu.

Long live Firefox, as it lead me here!

[Nanday]

I have been surfing the web for a long, long time (I even used Mosaic under Unix, when MS Internet Explorer didn't even exist). I first liked Netscape, it was stable, user-friendly, and later it even included other apps for HTML editing, Mail, and so on. But the Browser War erupted, and MS, with a crappy browser, crushed Netscape. And I was forced to use it, since the admin didn't support the new Firefox.

But now, Firefox is growing in numbers. I have successfully installed it to my computer and to everyone else I know. Everybody loves Firefox when they try, but at first, they are very reluctant to switch. I think that is the toughtes point FF have to beat, inertia. Once is done, everything is a lot easier.

(I'm talking from Spain, and from the people I know, it is 50/50 between FF and MSIE).