Why doesn't Ubuntu come with proprietary software?

[neon100]

I used Ubuntu when 6.10 was the latest version available. I liked it but abandoned it after a month of use due to poor software support and online support. But When i installed Feisty Fawn two days back the change i saw was literally euphoric ! I was stunned to see the improvements AND SUPPORT. But there are still common sense mistakes prevailing. Why cant Ubuntu people understand that everybody uses Firefox, video codecs, skype, yahoo, MSN messenger and many other common softwares ! Why dont they include all of them in the orginal distribution. WHy do i need to install them after i install ubuntu. Yea yeah ! now you'll say that i should try automatix, Automatix is handy but does not install the latest versions. i still have to update each software.

I can deliever UP & RUNNING windows PC within an hour. I can install windows and all softwares within an hour and WITHOUT INTERNET !. But for UBUNTU i have to install ubuntu, update it ! install every software from internet. it takes more than 3 hours ! and thats the time if you have good internet connection !


WHY CANT I HAVE A COMPLETE ORIGINAL DISTRIBUTION? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? :evil:

[blueridgedog]

Why cant Ubuntu people understand that everybody uses Firefox, video codecs, skype, yahoo, MSN messenger and many other common softwares

I think you are overly broad in your assumptions about what "everybody uses". You are asking for trivial entertainment types of software, while most users are looking for functioning office applications, stable internet access and tools to do real work.

If you are looking for an OS tailored to your needs out of the box, then I doubt you will find it given that each of us has a different set of expectations.

I had the current Ubuntu up and running, running my X10 home automation system, working with my ipod and sharing files with the other systems at my house in just an hour or so and with little command line work. That is fantastic.

[Bothered]

Why cant Ubuntu people understand that everybody uses Firefox, video codecs, skype, yahoo, MSN messenger and many other common softwares ! Why dont they include all of them in the orginal distribution. WHy do i need to install them after i install ubuntu.

Firefox is installed by default, codecs can be downloaded quickly (certainly doesn't take hours) and Pidgin (also installed by default) can be used instead of Yahoo and MSN messenger.


Yea yeah ! now you'll say that i should try automatix, Automatix is handy but does not install the latest versions. i still have to update each software.

I do not recommend the use of Automatix, and its use is not supported on these forums.


WHY CANT I HAVE A COMPLETE ORIGINAL DISTRIBUTION? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? :evil:

Absolutely nothing to stop you releasing a customised version of ubuntu, although you wouldn't be able to distribute proprietary software such as Skype or MSN messenger.

[GuitarRocker2562]

well, we have only got firefox, the most updated version too, so wtf are you talking about?
Video codecs would make ubuntu un-free, but whenever you try to play a video that needs un-free codecs, it asks you if you wish to download them painlessly, so once you play a WMV, all WMV will play. Skype, non-free?, nobody uses, yahoo, and msn both suck, but if you want them, they are all ready part of pidgin just configure, and btw. I know skype has a very easy way to install on linux, and this is it: http://www.skype.com/download/skype/linux/choose/ and just click ubuntu, freaking amazing

[NeoLithium]

On Ubuntu you have access to a lot of that:
Firefox
yahoo, MSN messenger -> GAIM (Now called Pidgin)
Skype I have no idea about, never used it.
As for the codecs, they need to be manually installed by the user due to legal issues. If any Ubuntu user just runs through something such as http://www.ubuntuguide.org things seem a lot simpler than how you describe.

Every single Ubuntu install I've done, from putting the CD in, to a working desktop with what I want has been less than an hour, you need to make sure you select a different mirror then depending on your connection.

[PmDematagoda]

What you are asking for:-

Codecs
Skype
MSN messenger
Yahoo Messenger

Are not there in Ubuntu automatically because in the case of the codecs and Skype, it would be illegal and against the licensing agreements, so if you have a problem with that then you will have to blame the people who own that software instead of taking your anger at Ubuntu and it's developers.

In the case of MSN messenger, it is not there because of one simple fact being that there is no Linux version of it and which likely will not be coming because as you may have noticed, MSN is owned by Windows, so once again, this is not the fault of Ubuntu or it's developers and it is unfair of you to take your anger out at them, if you have a problem with this, then ask Windows for a Linux version of MSN messenger.

The reason Yahoo messenger is not there pretty much the same as the one for MSN messenger, and if you want it, once again, pester Yahoo for it.

You must understand that Linux(Which includes Ubuntu) is not Windows, so if you do not expect any differences between the two or a difficulty in getting used to Ubuntu, then you are rather silly in thinking that.

If you want a third-party distro of Ubuntu that may fit your needs, one such thing I would suggest is Ubuntu Ultimate (http://ultimateedition.info/) or Linux Mint (http://linuxmint.com/).

If you want to run MSN or Yahoo Messenger on Linux, then you will need to use Wine, but the usefulness of the programs are under question when you do so, I just use Pidgin for both MSN and Yahoo. Pidgin, incidentally, is built-in to Ubuntu 7.10.

[NeoLithium]

now go jump off a bridge you loser.

All users are entitled to their opinions on the forum, please keep the conversation as polite as possible.

[picpak]

Linux Mint has everything you need. I suggest you check it out.

[jken146]

All users are entitled to their opinions on the forum, please keep the conversation as polite as possible.

While the words used were rather coarse, I do understand the sentiment somewhat. The OP was being a bit of a troll.

[aysiu]

Why cant Ubuntu people understand that everybody uses Firefox, video codecs, skype, yahoo, MSN messenger and many other common softwares ! Why dont they include all of them in the orginal distribution. WHy do i need to install them after i install ubuntu. If you really want to know why Ubuntu does not include these things, read the link below:
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy


WHY CANT I HAVE A COMPLETE ORIGINAL DISTRIBUTION? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? :evil:
Linux Mint has everything you need. I suggest you check it out.
I agree. As a matter of fact, a number of Linux distributions have what you need. Check out PCLinuxOS or Mepis as well.

[GuitarRocker2562]

yea sorry, got carried away, thanks for removing

[Ripfox]

I like Automatix for some things, and I don't care who supports me :lolflag:

[neon100]

good ! very good comments ! I appreciate everybody's opinion here !

but still why cant i keep the updates like i can keep WinXP SP2 ?
Why cant i keep every software's one-file-setup like i do in windows? (i run chance of unfulfilled dependencies in that case). I know there are companies like skype which give complete package but why cant it become a standard on this community?

Why is not there a COMPREHENSIVE website that explains what substitute softwares can be used in Ubuntu against the plathora of windows softwares.

Why is not there a COMPREHENSIVE website like download.com for Ubuntu?

I am absolutely in love in ubuntu. Its late night here and i cant sleep without making my ubuntu looking fit ! I love it with all my heart.

Now please dont ask me to jump off the bridge ! :smile:

[aysiu]

good ! very good comments ! I appreciate everybody's opinion here !

but still why cant i keep the updates like i can keep WinXP SP2 ? Actually you can. Instead of asking "Why can't...?" and assuming you can't do things, maybe you should ask "How do I...?"

All the updates and archived installer files are in /var/cache/apt/archives



Why is not there a COMPREHENSIVE website that explains what substitute softwares can be used in Ubuntu against the plathora of windows softwares. There are quite a few, actually. Linux App Finder is my favorite:
http://linuxappfinder.com/


Why is not there a COMPREHENSIVE website like download.com for Ubuntu? GetDeb might help you:
http://www.getdeb.net/

Honestly, though, Synaptic Package Manager is a great way to browse easily-installable software.

[hanzomon4]

good ! very good comments ! I appreciate everybody's opinion here !

{snip}

Why is not there a COMPREHENSIVE website like download.com for Ubuntu?

{snip}

You have three programs that allow you to search and install all the software you could possibly need - Add/Remove, Synaptic, apt-get. I can't understand why you would want to use a god awful site like download.com. However their is one for Ubuntu packages getdeb.net (http://www.getdeb.net/)

[neon100]

will the downloads by synaptic include their dependencies? same question for getdeb.net? Should i assume the answer for all .deb files?

Can i store synaptic downloads for later reinstalls? where do i find them in hard disk?

How can i install all the archive files in \var\cache\apt\archives in one go? I mean by just one command !

where does Automatix save its files? in same folder?

[blueridgedog]

In all honesty, the Synaptic Package Manager is amazing and rather than being limiting, it is probably overwhelming. I suspect you have not run it. Look under System -> Administration. All the applications you could want.

Keep in mind that windows is much like a a painting, you get a given product that does a given thing. Linux and most distro's are like a paint set. To a certain extent it is assumed that you want to have a hand in the end result.

The homogeneity you seek will never present itself in Linux (IMHO).

[aysiu]

will the downloads by synaptic include their dependencies? Yes.


Can i store synaptic downloads for later reinstalls? where do i find them in hard disk? Yes, I answered this question before. They're in /var/cache/apt/archives


How can i install all the archive files in \var\cache\apt\archives in one go? I mean by just one command !
cd /var/cache/apt/archives
sudo dpkg -i *.deb By the way, you have your slashes going the wrong direction.

[hanzomon4]

will the downloads by synaptic include their dependencies? same question for getdeb.net? Should i assume the answer for all .deb files?
Yes, Yes, Yes.. If the dependences are not in the repos it won't install, but I doubt you'll run into that problem with getdeb or any other .deb file.



Can i store synaptic downloads for later reinstalls? where do i find them in hard disk?

Hmm... That would be a neat feature


How can i install all the archive files in \var\cache\apt\archives in one go? I mean by just one command !

Yes, sudo dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/*deb
But why?
Just noticed dude that you got the windows bug bad. On Linux it's forward slashes / not backwards \



where does Automatix save its files? in same folder?

Dunno, but really not much point in using automatix these days.

Ay si u beat me to it again aysiu

[neon100]

you didn't answer about the getdeb.org ! same answer?

and another stupid question ! what if the command you just told me gives some error half way through ! like if it tries to install the software before installing its dependency !

[neon100]

one more thing ! i Just searched for Skype in synaptic . the result it showed was the version 1.3.053 whereas the version available on the internet is 1.4.0.118. How can i install the LATEST versions through apt-get or synaptic ?

[Lostincyberspace]

You could always do an install and get it set up to what you want and then build a Live CD from that. It takes a bit of doing but is do able.

[picpak]

will the downloads by synaptic include their dependencies? same question for getdeb.net? Should i assume the answer for all .deb files?

I always need to run sudo apt-get install -f after installing getdeb.net files. However, you can add a GetDeb repo (http://xubuntu.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/howto-access-getdebnet-packages-through-apt-getsynaptic/) in order to avoid this problem.

(This guide is Xubuntu-related, so just change mousepad to gedit.)

[picpak]

Why is not there a COMPREHENSIVE website like download.com for Ubuntu?

Funny, I'd consider Applications > Add/Remove... to be its download.com. It has a ratings system and everything.


one more thing ! i Just searched for Skype in synaptic . the result it showed was the version 1.3.053 whereas the version available on the internet is 1.4.0.118. How can i install the LATEST versions through apt-get or synaptic ?

Add the Medibuntu repo. (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu#head-7486ed038a9becc1dff10a24cc07a38a00d70e9f)

[bonzodog]

With getdeb.net, when you run dpkg -i , it will look at the dependencies file contained within the package, and fetch any dependencies for you from the ubuntu repositories that you don't already have.

For your second question, it really doesn't matter what order the software and dependencies are installed in, and they will ALWAYS be installed together.

Remember Linux Is Not Windows. Linux and windows differ like driving a car and riding a motorcycle. Linux is closer in use terms to Mac OSX than windows.
Linux is an alternative, a different way of thinking. There are also Ethics and Morals behind Open source, and ubuntu tries to honour those ethics and morals where it can.

Read 'The Cathedral and The bazaar' by Eric Raymond, and read up on the ideas behind open source first before ranting off about why things aren't included.

Incidentally, I realise English is not your first language, but please, stop using the ! mark. it makes it sound like you are in an almost panicked/angry/frustrated state of mind, and that is not the state of mind to be writing forums posts in.

[toupeiro]

In regards to getdeb, while many people may scoff at me, freshmeat.net has been a long time source of some of the best open source software and projects available. There is a lot more deb links there than in years prior.

If you can't find it on getdeb, check there. Either way, everything people have said here is 100% accurate. Ubuntu is one of the best OSes you can use legally and get for free, and do the things you are referring to in very short order.

[neon100]

i still cannot understand one thing. I know i am again comparing it with windows but as i am trying to shift from windows, so i have only windows as a reference point.

As many softwares might have common dependencies. Isn;t there any single downloadable STANDARD file that packs all common dependencies in one STANDARD UPDATE file ?

[Tyke91]

I don't know why you are stressing out so much about software dependencies, all files downloaded from Add/Remove and Synaptic always download all dependencies. these dependencies are automatically stored and updated on a regular basis (that little orange upgrade button will tell you when you need to upgrade). It is my understanding that when you run a .deb file, it will tell the upgrade manager what version it is and where to get the latest version. you do not need to download a separate dependency file to take care of that.

Stop thinking of linux as the same as windows. there is an entirely different philosophy behind it, as well as a different way of doing almost everything. When it comes to downloading and installing software on Ubuntu, almost everything you need will be found in synaptic or Add/Remove. If you know a specific package name, you can just type
sudo apt-get install packagename to skip all the graphical stuff.

[scorp123]

As many softwares might have common dependencies. Isn;t there any single downloadable STANDARD file that packs all common dependencies in one STANDARD UPDATE file ? Please define "one standard update file". You seem to be missing the whole point of the various packaging mechanisms that exist on Linux; the point of them being that with them you can avoid bloat and ideally only the stuff gets installed that is really needed. Not like in Windows where you can end up with a dozen or so various versions of the same DLL over and over again filling your system with totally redundant bloat over and over again -- remove the wrong DLL out of the many (e.g. by uninstalling software) and you're hosed or at least something else gets broken too (been there ... done that).

Linux package managers install exactly what's needed, and if two or more programs have partially the same dependencies and part of the stuff is therefore already installed then better for you: less to download, half the work already done. I fail to see the need for "one standard update file" ... whatever that is supposed to be sounds rather like Windowsish bloat to me.

And besides ... nobody forces you to use Linux. Use whatever OS you can work with and whatever makes you happy. For me it's Linux since 1996 but that's my choice and that doesn't mean it's the right choice for everyone. Tastes and preferences are different.

[SunnyRabbiera]

i still cannot understand one thing. I know i am again comparing it with windows but as i am trying to shift from windows, so i have only windows as a reference point.

As many softwares might have common dependencies. Isn;t there any single downloadable STANDARD file that packs all common dependencies in one STANDARD UPDATE file ?

Not yet, at least one that has a good amount of packages.
But oftentimes finding needed dependencies in a debian based system (thats what ubuntu is) by using a combination of some downloaded packages and stuff in the repositories.
its not perfect but I find remedying issues in a debian based system easier then most other linux variations.
Now as for your original question, well it all goes to the philosophy of ubuntu, remember companies like microsoft are really sneaky at their tactics

[aysiu]

one more thing ! i Just searched for Skype in synaptic . the result it showed was the version 1.3.053 whereas the version available on the internet is 1.4.0.118. How can i install the LATEST versions through apt-get or synaptic ?
Download this file from the Skype website (http://download.skype.com/linux/skype-debian_1.4.0.118-1_i386.deb) and double-click it. It's not that hard.

[neon100]

finally ! i think that i've got most of my questions answered. I was already in love with Ubuntu but when you people patiently answered my questions, it washed away the second thoughts i was having. Such quick replies really impressed me. I felt like i was a part of some cared fraternity. Though I still cannot understand some things you people have explained but i think that its due to the mental bad-sectors i've gotten through perpetual windows usage. :smile:

I like Feisty Fawn a lot and i plan to upgrade to Gibbon soon. My new year resolution is to convice at least 50 people to shift completely to Ubuntu and quit windows completely.

I thank you all from the core of my heart for answering my questions.

love you all ! you all people RRRRRRRRRRRRROCK ! :guitar:

[tbroderick]

If you really want to know why Ubuntu does not include these things, read the link below:
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy


Except for the announcement that Dell was going to package LinDVD and Flash with Ubuntu.

[aysiu]

Except for the announcement that Dell was going to package LinDVD and Flash with Ubuntu.
That's Dell's choice.

From Mark Shuttleworth's blog (http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/133):
Multimedia and DVD are often cited as the biggest things missing from the typical consumer’s expectations of a “fully working system”. Ideally, we could deliver a great multimedia experience in a free software stack but the US patent landscape makes that impossible, so for the moment this requires proprietary software. My hope is that the content industry will realise that DRM and playback restrictions are harmful to their own interests, and that EMI’s decision to sell MP3’s leads to a broader movement away from restrictive technologies.

[SunnyRabbiera]

That's Dell's choice.:
Yeh but dell's choice is a good one though, I am really rooting for them right now

[plun]

Well. the "big elephants" discussion this...:)

http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/openbsd-misc/2007/12/10/486713

I can understand the word "hypocritical"....

ubuntu-restricted-extras is not mentioned in the helpfile...
a coincidence or "Hypocrite".... :confused:

Of course it will be free software in the future....:)

[PetePete]

the point about the outdated version of skype is a good one..
its bl**dy annoying that the repositories aren't always up to date with the latest programs, especially something as popular as skype etc.

yeah i know you can install the latest deb from where ever, but that defeats the idea of apt-get and other programs.. also the updates, why do i have to download the whole sodding package, why not just the update.. ........ i dont pretend to understand the technical reasons but from an end users point of view its ridiculous to download a 10mb + file or whatever for a small security related update of a few kb

[tbroderick]

That's Dell's choice.

It's Canonical's trademark.

[smartboyathome]

It's Canonical's trademark.

Dell can do it if they get permission from Canonical (or pay them to use the trademark).

[scorp123]

also the updates, why do i have to download the whole sodding package, why not just the update.. ........ i dont pretend to understand the technical reasons but from an end users point of view its ridiculous to download a 10mb + file or whatever for a small security related update of a few kb Because you'd then have to maintain both packages: The full version + the delta package. And what if someone skipped one version? Those users would again need to download the whole thing anyway because any of the delta packages would be incompatible for them. So from a feasibility and software management point of view having complete packages is better, even if it may seem a waste of bandwidth to pull the whole 10+ MB of a package if only a few bytes changed due to a security update. The only way around this e.g. just pull the few bytes that changed would be if you maintained a list of every single file and its checksums and file size and then pulled each file individually ... but this would mean that you would de-evolve from a packet management system into a "individual file management system" .... In other words: total micro-management. So of all the possible bad options having to pull the full package even though just a few bytes changed is the smallest of all potential evils.

There are distros such as SUSE that tried this "delta package" way:

SUSE had this idea of "delta RPM's" starting with SUSE 9.2 a few years back. I have no idea if they still use them in 10.3? I was a SUSE user 1996 - 2005 ... but the SUSE 10.x releases were so horribly bad that I abandoned them for good.

And SUSE's "delta packages" created more problems than they really solved, especially if you dared to deviate from what SUSE perceived as being a "standard" installation. Example -- one I've been through myself: Firefox. SUSE installs a certain version fully from their installer DVD. A few weeks later a new version is released from the Firefox web site -- and great, it's even available as "SUSE *.rpm" file (the packet format SUSE uses), so I installed that one too. The rpm manager got it right and upgraded the previously existing version with the file I downloaded. But a few days later SUSE GmbH (now Novell Inc.) released their own "delta RPM" and the online-update pulled in that version too. And because of moronic reasons unknown to me that "delta RPM" version of Firefox had a slightly higher version number than the full package I previously installed from the Firefox web site. So the SUSE "delta" version installed over my non-SUSE full version. The result was that I had a totally crippled Firefox and all applications relying on any of its components were totally broken. I had to uninstall the updates, uninstall my otherwise perfectly valid *.rpm package of Firefox, uninstall anything else related to Firefox, and then start again with the version on the SUSE installer DVD .... and then start the upgrade process all over again from there. It was a total pain.

Trust me when I say this: You wouldn't want such stuff to happen to you on Ubuntu. :)

As I said ... Having to download the full package is really the smallest of all possible evils I guess .....