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barbedsaber
December 21st, 2007, 02:51 AM
What do YOU think will be the turning point for (or against) linux becoming the main computer system EDIT: not just for desktops/
I'll start off by saying, I think the turning point will be when there are enough linux users, that software developers start top take us seriously, and make more things that are compatible with linux.

kool_kat_os
December 21st, 2007, 02:57 AM
I think its here to stay, because there is not only people using it on desktops. There are alot of people who use it on there servers. Most of the websites you go to are on linux servers. Also if people dont have enough money to purchase windows then linux is the best choice. So my anser is that it may take a while for it to become REALLY popular but it will get there

zmjjmz
December 21st, 2007, 03:03 AM
As I read in a news article, it'll be when
a) Linux is fully ready for the Laptop (Suspend, Wireless, etc. works perfectomundo)
b)When most Laptops go below the "magic $1000" mark, Vista &/or XP will really start to show up in a Laptop's price. (Because the difference between 1000 and 1300 seems less than the difference between 500 and 800)
Wait.
I just started talking about Laptops didn't I...
oh well...
For Desktops, all that needs to happen is a bunch of popular OEMs (such as Dell, HP, or Sony) offering and promoting (that's important there) Linux. On all machines.

barbedsaber
December 21st, 2007, 03:23 AM
all that needs to happen is a bunch of popular OEMs (such as Dell, HP, or Sony) offering and promoting (that's important there) Linux. On all machines.

That is too true, you would be supprised how many people that use computers regularly (everyone except my grandma) that dont even know tht linux exsits.

Linuxratty
December 21st, 2007, 04:14 AM
I think it is definitely gaining momentum...Linux has a lot going for it and will only improve over time.

wolfen69
December 21st, 2007, 06:15 AM
I think it is definitely gaining momentum...Linux has a lot going for it and will only improve over time.

ive heard this a million times. people, enjoy your OS. we can all learn from each other.

barbedsaber
December 21st, 2007, 08:01 AM
im not sure I understand, but wouldn't it be good if the number of people using linux ... tripled, we would have more software that worked for us, we would have full support with every hardware driver there is (not that we need it) and we would never have to muck around with wine again.

Tundro Walker
December 21st, 2007, 08:11 AM
The turning point will be when more schools (K-12) are using Linux to teach computers to kids instead of Windows.

When schools are changing their focus on what they're teaching the next generation, then you'll know that it's not only here to stay, but probably taking over the world.

This is something MS does not want, and they're doing everything in their power to provide discount software to schools. They realize that their dominance relies on the next generation getting indoctrinated early.

barbedsaber
December 21st, 2007, 08:15 AM
that is the smartest thing I have heard this month WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT!!!!!!!!!

mocoloco
December 21st, 2007, 09:01 AM
Yup, that's why MS is pushing to have the 'One Laptop Per Child" machine modified to be able to run a version of Windows (http://itnews.com.au/News/66442,microsoft-wants-ne-laptop-per-child-system-to-run-windows-xp.aspx). Of course that makes no sense, part of the empowerment the kids are getting with these machines is the ability to see how and why their programs work, which MS would not allow.
What's funny is their arrogance to assume that the project should re-spec it's machine for them, rather than optimizing their OS to run on the hardware as-is.

barbedsaber
December 21st, 2007, 09:04 AM
The funny part about that, is they (microsoft) are saying "dont go back to XP, dont downgrade, your current computer will be fine for vista, and they want to run XP on the olpc computers.

popch
December 21st, 2007, 09:16 AM
part of the empowerment the kids are getting with these machines is the ability to see how and why their programs work, which MS would not allow..

Perhaps the children will learn something from observing how and why the software does not work?

jrusso2
December 21st, 2007, 09:26 AM
Linux will never be a force on the desktop, but its impact on the embedded devices and servers has already on going.

barbedsaber
December 21st, 2007, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mocoloco View Post
part of the empowerment the kids are getting with these machines is the ability to see how and why their programs work, which MS would not allow..
Perhaps the children will learn something from observing how and why the software does not work?

:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag: I actually laghed in real life, it wasn't some mindless smily :)

macogw
December 21st, 2007, 09:27 AM
That is too true, you would be supprised how many people that use computers regularly (everyone except my grandma) that dont even know tht linux exsits.

Not really. Most people who've heard of Linux are the ones who are REALLY into computers. The ones who aren't into computers just know their computer has Windows...if they know that.

rzrgenesys187
December 21st, 2007, 09:31 AM
That is too true, you would be supprised how many people that use computers regularly (everyone except my grandma) that dont even know tht linux exsits.

Agreed. In addition I think once the terminal becomes less necessary. When most see the terminal they are intimidated. Personally I love it but the average user won't want to deal with it, especially if coming from windows.


The funny part about that, is they (microsoft) are saying "dont go back to XP, dont downgrade, your current computer will be fine for vista, and they want to run XP on the olpc computers.

They want to run XP on an OLPC. Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of the computer when the cost doubles, aside from the system requirements, or is this part of microsofts plan to screw people in other companies through the use of their software.

macogw
December 21st, 2007, 10:19 AM
Agreed. In addition I think once the terminal becomes less necessary. When most see the terminal they are intimidated. Personally I love it but the average user won't want to deal with it, especially if coming from windows.
A girl on the train today saw me using the terminal to run a script that converts mp3's to oggs. She was like O_o at first, then I explained what everything did and told her about manpages. I also said there are other ways to do it, but I like using the terminal because it's faster than clicking around. She said she could see how once you learn it, typing would be faster. I also told her my mom uses Linux like me because Windows was too hard and again she went O_o and I reminded her I only use the terminal because I like it. My mom's never even seen the terminal, because she just uses the menus. Also told her about Synaptic. She asked what I was using (Ubuntu), so hey, maybe she'll look into it. She seemed interested in it when I showed her some commands and said something about programming. I told her if she wants to try programming, the most important thing is problem-solving because programming is just like figuring out the equation for a word problem.

Daveski
December 21st, 2007, 10:39 AM
What do YOU think will be the turning point for (or against) linux becoming the main computer system

How about wide adoption of 64-bit (well, machines with more than 4Gb of RAM anyway):

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world-domination-201.html

Erik Trybom
December 21st, 2007, 11:32 AM
There is no turning point. It's more of a rounded curve with some bumps in it.

We've already seen the progress. Easy clickable settings was one milestone, as opposed to the powerful but newbie-unfriendly config file-editing. Mark Shuttleworth provided a second one, as he started the well-funded Ubuntu project with the outspoken goal to replace Windows on the desktops. Dell offering Ubuntu was a major breakthrough, as was AMD/ATI's decision to open source their drivers (even if they have yet to deliver). I also think Compiz is a milestone because it's the first desktop killer app Linux has. All of a sudden, people are wondering how to get that cool thing they saw on Youtube.

What we're still waiting for some things though. Photoshop would be nice, and new games as well. Driver support could get even better. More vendors could offer pre-installed Linux.

The ball is rolling, but it takes some time to gather momentum. Even if everything technical was magically solved tomorrow, we would still have to wait several years before the market share got anywhere near that of Windows.

3rdalbum
December 21st, 2007, 12:24 PM
It's the sort of thing where Linux will have 10% marketshare, and about a quarter of the commercial programs will be written for it, and hardware support will be almost flawless; yet we'll still be asking when the "turning point" or the "year of the Linux desktop" will be.

Trinexx
December 21st, 2007, 03:18 PM
It's the sort of thing where Linux will have 10% marketshare, and about a quarter of the commercial programs will be written for it, and hardware support will be almost flawless; yet we'll still be asking when the "turning point" or the "year of the Linux desktop" will be.

I'm actually stunned by the point made there. If the Linux users from a decade ago could see how far it's come, they would consider Linux to be a success. It's all a matter of perspective.

dannyboy79
December 21st, 2007, 03:23 PM
when more hardware manufacturers support linux. when more commercial application developers right their programs for linux. a lot of times, people get accustomed to a great commercial app, they paid $500 dollars for and it only runs on windows or they have hardware that there aren't any linux modules for it. WHen things like this occur, that's the turning point. All the stuff after will just fall into place, like using linux in schools, like gaining more marketshare, so on and so forth.

Tundro Walker
December 22nd, 2007, 05:07 AM
when more hardware manufacturers support linux. when more commercial application developers right their programs for linux. a lot of times, people get accustomed to a great commercial app, they paid $500 dollars for and it only runs on windows or they have hardware that there aren't any linux modules for it. WHen things like this occur, that's the turning point. All the stuff after will just fall into place, like using linux in schools, like gaining more marketshare, so on and so forth.

That's a hard hurdle to jump, especially here in America, where folks are indoctrinated with Capitalism to think "the more you spend, the better the quality"...so, obviously if you don't spend a dime, it's gotta be crap. You have to change that mind-set first, and it's very, very hard to do for some folks.

Heh, I was almost floored by the idea of MS wanting OLPC to put their OS on it. I just donated to that cause...I don't want it tainted.

I can almost hear the PR folks for MS spin it, too...

"We think OLPC is wonderful! And to SHOW OUR SUPPORT, we want our OS to get installed on there. We know you already spent some time with that little OS you got there, but we're letting you use a REAL OS! What do you say?"

I'm sure that's when the OLPC folks hold up a LOLCAT poster with some kind of GTFO thought-bubble above the cat's head, and point to the door.

HermanAB
December 22nd, 2007, 05:15 AM
Obviously, the turning point will be when demand for Linux systems outstrips supply:
http://eeepc.asus.com/global/

jperez
December 22nd, 2007, 06:56 AM
The OLPC gig going on is great. I was doing research on the GP2X, which led me to GPe, which led me to the Matchbox Window Manager which led me to the OLPC XO-1. If you want more info, go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XO-1_%28laptop%29

What I found great about the makers of this laptop, as many other have stated about MS wanting their OS on it and no Linux, was a small sniplet of info about how they declined an offer of Free Mac OS X on it for open-source Linux instead.

Citied from Wikipedia:
Steve Jobs had offered Mac OS X free of charge for use in the laptop, but according to Seymour Papert, a professor emeritus at MIT who is one of the initiative's founders, the designers want an operating system that can be tinkered]with: We declined because its not open source. Therefore Linux was chosen.

Isn't that just great? If they turned down Mac OS X because it's not open source, then I think we have no need to worry about the OLPC laptops going to MS.

Chalk up another one for Linux. Looks like things are looking good for the future of Linux in many different places.

Jesse~

HermanAB
December 22nd, 2007, 07:33 AM
It would be nice if MS can get Vista to run on the OLPC or the Asus Eee PC, since that will require lots of optimization and then Vista may actually be usable...

chris4585
December 22nd, 2007, 07:54 AM
Agreed. In addition I think once the terminal becomes less necessary. When most see the terminal they are intimidated. Personally I love it but the average user won't want to deal with it, especially if coming from windows.

I Agree i love the terminal, and would love to learn alot of the commands for it, but i'm slowly getting there..

As for the discussion

I think that linux will become more popular when, its on the school computers, advertised on tv, put on big OEM computers, and sold cheaply in big stores like walmart, bestbuy, circuit city and such...

jperez
December 22nd, 2007, 08:24 AM
It would be nice if MS can get Vista to run on the OLPC or the Asus Eee PC, since that will require lots of optimization and then Vista may actually be usable...

Thing is that for it to be very low cost, as it is advertised the "$100 Laptop", it needs less expensive hardware and that means sometimes having to resort to older or not-so-mainstream hardware. Linux is very customizable for the needs of the user, in this case, kids in under developed countries or just for any kid willing to learn something new.

This is a bold step the company undertaking this project has taken. They could have opted to have an OS that is familiar with MANY people, like Windows, but they instead went with not-so-known Linux because they can add the things they need/want to it. They can make new programs and games for these kids that can be wirelessly uploaded to their new laptops so they can have a broad range of software to use.

From the photos I saw, it also has a nicely created GUI so the kids won't be so afraid of using it in the first place. Besides, this distro is aimed at kids, not adults like most of us on here. As Linux starts to grow and mature, more people and companies will start to use Linux as it is a viable source of open development and user input.

If Microsoft actually listened to it's customers, they'd have a lot more business and more things about Windows would be customizable, but seeing as Windows is very restricted, it's not the exactly an OS with user/consumer support. Can you update/compile/tweak Windows' source code so it will run better for you? No and it will always be that way. Linux, you can change anything about it, even make it so thin and lite that a very low-end computer can run even the latest kernels and xorg server changes.

Anyway, I'm happy they decided on the "linux laptop" approach. This will make things easier for further development and software expansion. Plus, it's really inexpensive for school use.


I think that linux will become more popular when, its on the school computers, advertised on tv, put on big OEM computers, and sold cheaply in big stores like walmart, bestbuy, circuit city and such...

Agreed. Some distros are already appearing on shelves around the country, but it's not like Mac OS or Windows, as where they are everywhere. Slowly, but surely, Linux will start to become very user friendly for alomst anyone and where as it won't replace Windows/Mac, it will offer a healthy alternative.

Jesse~

fatality_uk
December 22nd, 2007, 11:48 AM
Linux will never be a force on the desktop, but its impact on the embedded devices and servers has already on going.

I presume your writing this from either a server terminal or Linux car stereo :D

There is one MAIN problem that Linux has to overcome. PROMOTION. Take Ubuntu for instance. Within the Linux market its got about a 40% share. But it hasn't really taken it's marketing outside to the wider general public. Tesco, Dell, WalMart etc are doing a good job in at least bringing Linux to the desktop market. But they wont invest heavily in Linux marketing on their own I don't think.

Linux can't really do what MS can do in terms of promotion. Even in the early days, MS had a BIG marketing budget. Linux's growth is relying on word of mouth. I've already said that with the latest round of Distros, Gutsy, Feed8, PCLOS, Linux is now and only now becoming a real alternative on the desktop.

MS IS worried about Linux. Their shocking tactics over OLPC is showing that MS DOESN'T want kids growing up using anything other than MS products. From a business point of view, nothing wrong with wanting to keep your market share. From an ethical point of view, nah!!

I think what will actually happen is that late in 08, there will be a breakthrough by a Linux distro. I can see the momentum already building.

Ocxic
December 22nd, 2007, 12:05 PM
Ubuntu and Linux in general have faster release schedules. I've been using Ubuntu science breezy, and it' s only gotten better, eventually the upgrades, features and stability with surpass the windows OS, just look how long it took them to get vista out, and there not that much new stuff included with it.
it's not that Microsoft can;t create a good OS,. it just that Ubuntu / Linux will progress much much faster then Microsoft will be able to keep up with. not to mention, Microsoft still hasn't created a stable working 64-bit OS, yes windows 64-bit exists but if it was any good they'd be putting it on PC's, to which I've never seen a 64-bit widows OS yet on any computer.
which also brings up the problem of 64-bit drivers for windows, there going to have to drop a lot of hardware support since they won't have access to driver source code, and must rely on hardware manufactures to create them, and since MS is not pushing the 64-bit OS they have no reason too create 64-bit drivers, but the bigger problem is who is going to write 64-bit driver for hardware that companies no longer support, or companies for hardware that no longer exist.

jperez
December 22nd, 2007, 12:53 PM
Ubuntu and Linux in general have faster release schedules. I've been using Ubuntu science breezy, and it' s only gotten better, eventually the upgrades, features and stability with surpass the windows OS, just look how long it took them to get vista out, and there not that much new stuff included with it.
it's not that Microsoft can;t create a good OS,. it just that Ubuntu / Linux will progress much much faster then Microsoft will be able to keep up with. not to mention, Microsoft still hasn't created a stable working 64-bit OS, yes windows 64-bit exists but if it was any good they'd be putting it on PC's, to which I've never seen a 64-bit widows OS yet on any computer.
which also brings up the problem of 64-bit drivers for windows, there going to have to drop a lot of hardware support since they won't have access to driver source code, and must rely on hardware manufactures to create them, and since MS is not pushing the 64-bit OS they have no reason too create 64-bit drivers, but the bigger problem is who is going to write 64-bit driver for hardware that companies no longer support, or companies for hardware that no longer exist.

I agree there too...(whoa, I got nothing to do tonight? o.O)

M$ is not as great as they claim. OS upgrades after a certain amount of years, XP to Vista being a HUGE example, with "security updates" that just create more hazards instead of fixing them is not what I'd call great support. When I worked at the Boys & Girls Club of Larimer County, I was disgusted with the fact that even on a new install of Windows XP on 1.2Ghz eMachines, they ran slow, sluggishly and still crashed many times while the kids were playing games online.

I had to show off the lab to several important folks that gave funding to the club, and the machines crashing was not something I wanted them to see.

On your other note, if M$ was as adamant about making 64-Bit processors get used to their fullest extent with a stable 64-Bit OS along with 64-Bit drivers for all current and new hardware like Linux is, then there'd be more users sizing up XP 64-Bit or Vista 64-Bit, but instead, they look for XP 32-Bit and Vista 32-Bit, all because support for 64-Bit is all but non-existent.

LOTS of Linux distros already have 64-Bit support, with obvious mixes of 64-Bit and 32-Bit drivers, but with much needed support actually coming in FOR those 64-Bit chips being used. I can rest assured that when I get a 64-Bit Dual Core AMD laptop in late-Jan/early-Feb that the system I install wil have better support for my chip. If I have to, I will use the 32-Bit version should I run into problems, but seeing as 64-Bit support is getting better and better everyday, I see no reason to worry about it now.

Jesse~

barbedsaber
December 24th, 2007, 10:47 AM
chtistams eve bump