PDA

View Full Version : Experienced MS-Windows users and attitudes



blastus
September 11th, 2005, 07:51 PM
I'm fairly new to Linux (just switched to it) and I love it a lot. However, I'm finding that experienced MS-Windows users are extremely intolerant of those that express their opinion about Linux or against MS-Windows no matter how respectfully they express those opinions. This is why I will never become a member of any forum ever again that is not Linux-orientated--because unless otherwise stated, they are all generally pro-Windows and are intolerant of those that do not love Microsoft and Microsoft products. I'm not talking about flaming Microsoft and thing like that, I'm talking about respectfully discussing something factual about MS-Windows or something in the news and having an opinion that is not pro-Microsoft or pro-MS-Windows or pro-MS-Office.

My thoughts are that experienced MS-Windows users are generally:

Intolerant: They do not respect people with opinions that differ from what they have and they just can't tolerate people who do not like Microsoft, MS-Windows, and MS-Office

Hyprocritical: They accuse those who dislike MS-Windows or Microsoft as religious fanatics yet they fail to realize that they are MS-Windows and Microsoft religious fanatics themselves

Ignorant: They are generally ignorant about the nature and purpose of Linux and open source software

What is everyone else's thoughts on this?

floppy
September 11th, 2005, 08:00 PM
Oh, come on now. You can't be serious. Of the literally millions upon millions of Windows users in the world, you want to characterize all of them by what die-hard fanatics on some forums think?

macgyver2
September 11th, 2005, 08:23 PM
Oh, come on now. You can't be serious. Of the literally millions upon millions of Windows users in the world, you want to characterize all of them by what die-hard fanatics on some forums think?
Yeah, and there are Linux fanatics who do the same thing if someone wants to respectfully discuss something good about Windows.

Well, that is, hypothetically they would do that if someone ever found something good about Windows to discuss... :wink::)

blastus
September 11th, 2005, 08:23 PM
Oh, come on now. You can't be serious. Of the literally millions upon millions of Windows users in the world, you want to characterize all of them by what die-hard fanatics on some forums think?

Actually I am serious. You're right though, not all experienced MS-Windows users are like that but I'd say that the good majority of them who routinely participate on online forums are. I'm not talking about average MS-Windows users, I'm talking about the really experienced ones--the ones who know how to install it, the ones who know how to edit the registry, the ones who know how to adminstrate it etc...

It is these people who cannot stand an opinion that is anti-Microsoft or anti-MS-Windows or anti-MS-Office. It is these people who have spent too much time on online forums to encounter those who do not or cannot respectfully express their opinions about Linux or against MS-Windows. It is these people who have become highly sensitized to anything anyone says against MS-Windows. The same is true with the Firefox vs Internet Explorer. A lot of Internet Explorer users are extremely sensitive to anything anyone says against it. The end result is that they cannot tolerate someone who has an opinion that is different from theirs.

majikstreet
September 11th, 2005, 08:28 PM
I'm fairly new to Linux (just switched to it) and I love it a lot. However, I'm finding that experienced MS-Windows users are extremely intolerant of those that express their opinion about Linux or against MS-Windows no matter how respectfully they express those opinions. This is why I will never become a member of any forum ever again that is not Linux-orientated--because unless otherwise stated, they are all generally pro-Windows and are intolerant of those that do not love Microsoft and Microsoft products. I'm not talking about flaming Microsoft and thing like that, I'm talking about respectfully discussing something factual about MS-Windows or something in the news and having an opinion that is not pro-Microsoft or pro-MS-Windows or pro-MS-Office.

My thoughts are that experienced MS-Windows users are generally:

Intolerant: They do not respect people with opinions that differ from what they have and they just can't tolerate people who do not like Microsoft, MS-Windows, and MS-Office

Hyprocritical: They accuse those who dislike MS-Windows or Microsoft as religious fanatics yet they fail to realize that they are MS-Windows and Microsoft religious fanatics themselves

Ignorant: They are generally ignorant about the nature and purpose of Linux and open source software

What is everyone else's thoughts on this?
I agree with you.
But, when you come to a linux forum and someone says "I hate linux, it doesn't work and it sucks! Windows is better!!", the members usually turn to flame mode (or turn on their flame tag as I like to say ;p).

It works both ways.

Moral of the story, don't go to a MS forum bashing MS and don't go to a linux forum bashing linux.

tseliot
September 11th, 2005, 08:41 PM
I'm fairly new to Linux (just switched to it) and I love it a lot. However, I'm finding that experienced MS-Windows users are extremely intolerant of those that express their opinion about Linux or against MS-Windows no matter how respectfully they express those opinions. This is why I will never become a member of any forum ever again that is not Linux-orientated--because unless otherwise stated, they are all generally pro-Windows and are intolerant of those that do not love Microsoft and Microsoft products. I'm not talking about flaming Microsoft and thing like that, I'm talking about respectfully discussing something factual about MS-Windows or something in the news and having an opinion that is not pro-Microsoft or pro-MS-Windows or pro-MS-Office.

My thoughts are that experienced MS-Windows users are generally:

Intolerant: They do not respect people with opinions that differ from what they have and they just can't tolerate people who do not like Microsoft, MS-Windows, and MS-Office

Hyprocritical: They accuse those who dislike MS-Windows or Microsoft as religious fanatics yet they fail to realize that they are MS-Windows and Microsoft religious fanatics themselves

Ignorant: They are generally ignorant about the nature and purpose of Linux and open source software

What is everyone else's thoughts on this?
I think this in true: windows fanatics do exist as well as Linux fanatics do. There are people who are fanatic of a distro and who clain that a distro is better than the other ones, and so on.

This happens also in everyday life. The result? Intollerance, hatred, violence and war. Some people's self-assertion becomes the annhilation of the ones who don't agree with them.

This is the way the world works in many cases. For this reason we try (or should try) not to repeat the same errors in this forum.

davidgypsy
September 11th, 2005, 08:44 PM
Intolerant: They do not respect people with opinions that differ from what they have and they just can't tolerate people who do not like Microsoft, MS-Windows, and MS-Office

Hyprocritical: They accuse those who dislike MS-Windows or Microsoft as religious fanatics yet they fail to realize that they are MS-Windows and Microsoft religious fanatics themselves

Ignorant: They are generally ignorant about the nature and purpose of Linux and open source software

What is everyone else's thoughts on this?

If you just replace MS-Windows with Linux here it would still be true. Even worse, Linux users even do the same thing from one Linux distro to the next! ](*,)

MinoltaLuvR
September 11th, 2005, 08:51 PM
heh, coming from the days of os/2, i understand what your talking about.. truly:)
i've always skirted religion and politics in routine conversations... i learned to add MS. IBM, and Linux to those not openly discussed at times as well;)

but i still love the shock factor of telling a hardcore windows user.. MS software stinks, they ask why.. i tell them a nice list of reasons.. then watch them stammer and try and come up with a reason better than "i just dont get linux" as linux's major flaw.

ah well, to each their own, i say, use whats most comfortable for you.

cheers
john.

blastus
September 11th, 2005, 08:51 PM
I agree with you.
But, when you come to a linux forum and someone says "I hate linux, it doesn't work and it sucks! Windows is better!!", the members usually turn to flame mode (or turn on their flame tag as I like to say ;p).

It works both ways.

You're right it does go both ways. I'll admit that I'm a Linux fanatic now, but it doesn't bother me when someone bashes Linux or talks about how good MS-Windows and Microsoft are. That doesn't bother because everyone is entitled to their own opinion and everyone has their own reasons for liking or not-liking something. If someone comes on these forums and says about bad Linux sucks, it would not bother me one bit.


Moral of the story, don't go to a MS forum bashing MS and don't go to a linux forum bashing linux.

I'm not talking about bashing, I'm talking about being able to respectfully express an opinion that is anti-Microsoft or anti-MS-Windows or anti-MS-Office. And it's not just pro-MS forums. I think any forum that is not explicitly pro-Linux or Linux-orientated is going to be a pro-MS-Windows forum and they cannot tolerate an anti-MS-Windows opinion NO MATTER HOW THAT OPINION IS EXPRESSED. They are so sensitized to anything anyone says against Microsoft or MS-Windows or MS-Office, that they cannot tolerate it no matter how the message comes across.

WildTangent
September 11th, 2005, 09:38 PM
im an experienced windows user, but yet, i embrace opensource...

i think youre making assumptions

-Wild

Kvark
September 11th, 2005, 09:47 PM
Actually I am serious. You're right though, not all experienced MS-Windows users are like that but I'd say that the good majority of them who routinely participate on online forums are. I'm not talking about average MS-Windows users, I'm talking about the really experienced ones--the ones who know how to install it, the ones who know how to edit the registry, the ones who know how to adminstrate it etc...

It is these people who cannot stand an opinion that is anti-Microsoft or anti-MS-Windows or anti-MS-Office. It is these people who have spent too much time on online forums to encounter those who do not or cannot respectfully express their opinions about Linux or against MS-Windows. It is these people who have become highly sensitized to anything anyone says against MS-Windows. The same is true with the Firefox vs Internet Explorer. A lot of Internet Explorer users are extremely sensitive to anything anyone says against it. The end result is that they cannot tolerate someone who has an opinion that is different from theirs.
Wow, that's true, that's a dead on description of me a year ago.

I feel perfectly at home in the registry, playing with system files and other stuff too, like overclocking hardware other then just the CPU. I've installed various versions of Windows plenty of times. My favourites are Windows 98 SE which is a very fast OS for middle and low spec computers and Windows 2k which is a rock solid and pretty good OS for middle and high spec computers.

Now to the bad part of me a year ago...

Before trying Ubuntu I thought Linux was something you put away into a server room and then keep your distance from. If anyone actually used Linux then I teased them because all the programs that I knew of was made for Windows which made me assume there was almost no programs for Linux. And then I teased the Linux users some more because my only experience of Linux was spending 10 minutes once trying to find Internet Explorer on a RedHat computer back in school. That experience made me assume that Linux looked about as modern as Windows 3.1 and didn't even have a web browser.

I was even worse about Macs, figured they're not even real computers.


Me a year ago and many other Windows geeks I've met really does have an attitude problem against alternatives. You'd think a linux geek would blend in at a computer oriented high school that is full of geeks. But I wasn't the only one who thought the few Linux using geeks there was weird.


The only thing that helps is actually seeing the alternatives. The webdesign teacher forced us to try our websites in Firefox and Opera, after that most of us where impressed and ditched IE. When I installed Ubuntu the textual install was just what I expected but when it booted and displayed the warty login prompt my reaction was "huh!? this doesn't look like win 3.1... It looks like some kind of star treck terminal!" and after using synaptic for the first time I was chrushed "OMG, I've been living in a cave, Linux is in 2015, not 1995! can't belive it... can't belive it...". Haven't used anything else then Ubuntu since then.

qalimas
September 11th, 2005, 09:51 PM
I'm fairly new to Linux (just switched to it) and I love it a lot. However, I'm finding that experienced MS-Windows users are extremely intolerant of those that express their opinion about Linux or against MS-Windows no matter how respectfully they express those opinions. This is why I will never become a member of any forum ever again that is not Linux-orientated--because unless otherwise stated, they are all generally pro-Windows and are intolerant of those that do not love Microsoft and Microsoft products. I'm not talking about flaming Microsoft and thing like that, I'm talking about respectfully discussing something factual about MS-Windows or something in the news and having an opinion that is not pro-Microsoft or pro-MS-Windows or pro-MS-Office.

My thoughts are that experienced MS-Windows users are generally:

Intolerant: They do not respect people with opinions that differ from what they have and they just can't tolerate people who do not like Microsoft, MS-Windows, and MS-Office

Hyprocritical: They accuse those who dislike MS-Windows or Microsoft as religious fanatics yet they fail to realize that they are MS-Windows and Microsoft religious fanatics themselves

Ignorant: They are generally ignorant about the nature and purpose of Linux and open source software

What is everyone else's thoughts on this?

My dad is exactly like that, and despite me showing him Synaptic in Kubuntu, he still thinks programs are 'hell' to install on Linux, and it's 'too hard'. He thougth this because of hte fact when he moved over he didn't take the time to realize Linux won't write to his NTFS, he expected me to tell him. He wants his hand held, he still wants his hand held by me in Windows when I don't even use it. And yet he considers himself a tech, and works on other's computers, yet calls me ignorant because I compare Linux and Windows, and because I don't pirate all the crap he does.

Really, I don't mind Windows users, I bash them when they bash me, and it's that 'I'm right so there's no point in argueing' attitude that keeps them that way. I can't ever end a debate with my dad, once I get a point point or counter his and I'm right, he says 'I'm not discussing the point with you, Linux just isn't ready and Windows is better.'

Ok, I think I'm done ranting....

aysiu
September 11th, 2005, 10:51 PM
1. It's a simple matter of etiquette.
2. People on forums are not representative of Linux or Windows users as a whole.
3. http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=63969

poofyhairguy
September 11th, 2005, 11:01 PM
Oh, come on now. You can't be serious. Of the literally millions upon millions of Windows users in the world, you want to characterize all of them by what die-hard fanatics on some forums think?

Not that two wrongs make a right, but people do the exact same thing regarding Linux.

This post was good satire.

manicka
September 11th, 2005, 11:04 PM
I'm talking about the really experienced ones--the ones who know how to install it, the ones who know how to edit the registry, the ones who know how to adminstrate it etc...

I'm one of those, which is why I use Linux ;)

phen
September 11th, 2005, 11:09 PM
the starting point of this discussion is a generalisation, that is not fair for windows users/admins.

What do you think about this:

all mercedes-benz drivers are: ignorant, agressive and have a build-in right of way.
all owners of a small suburbian house are square assurance reps
all IT workers are pale pizza-eating thick-glasses-wearing geeks
...please ad your favourite generalisation here...

your's might be founded by observations you've made (and i have seen agressive mb drivers!), but please rethink your question! the word "ALL" never fits when describing a group. what is the point of the discussion btw?
hmm let me think....

well i dont want to sound too mean, but its sometimes difficult for me to find the right expressions in english. i just want to make you think...

cheers!

blastus
September 12th, 2005, 12:18 AM
the starting point of this discussion is a generalisation, that is not fair for windows users/admins.

What do you think about this:

all mercedes-benz drivers are: ignorant, agressive and have a build-in right of way.
all owners of a small suburbian house are square assurance reps
all IT workers are pale pizza-eating thick-glasses-wearing geeks
...please ad your favourite generalisation here...

your's might be founded by observations you've made (and i have seen agressive mb drivers!), but please rethink your question! the word "ALL" never fits when describing a group. what is the point of the discussion btw?
hmm let me think....

well i dont want to sound too mean, but its sometimes difficult for me to find the right expressions in english. i just want to make you think...

cheers!

No not ALL, but a LOT anyway. But I think one would be hard pressed to find an MS-Windows user who is intolerant of anti-MS-Windows opinions who is NOT an experienced MS-Windows user. Sure it goes both ways though. But you're right, my generalization is not well-founded.

Anyway, I've since discontinued my membership on that particular forum. I was a member on that forum for years but it's pretty much a dead forum now. I have no reason to participate in such a forum where the few remaining active members are so intolerant, ignorant and hyprocritical. And the hyprocracy on that forum is not limited to just discussions about computers. A couple of months back I was planning on not participating on that forum anymore anyway because of the rampant hyprocracy in the political and religious discussions.

As mentioned earlier, I have no issue with someone stating an opinion--as long as they don't personally attack me. I'm going to be sticking with Linux-orientated and pro-Linux forums from now on. :-)

aysiu
September 12th, 2005, 12:31 AM
I have no reason to participate in such a forum where the few remaining active members are so intolerant, ignorant and hyprocritical. I don't mind if people say bad things about Linux, as long as those bad things are true, but some people (http://bbs.xvsxp.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=14&t=5813&st=40&#entry116631) feel like just spreading plain lies about Linux, and it pisses the hell out of me.

drizek
September 12th, 2005, 12:41 AM
Actually I am serious. You're right though, not all experienced MS-Windows users are like that but I'd say that the good majority of them who routinely participate on online forums are. I'm not talking about average MS-Windows users, I'm talking about the really experienced ones--the ones who know how to install it, the ones who know how to edit the registry, the ones who know how to adminstrate it etc...


i think you are very wrong. i consider myself an experienced windows user. guess what OS im using?

aysiu
September 12th, 2005, 12:48 AM
blastus has one experience.
drizek has another experience.

Unless we get some sociological study or some actual statistics, it's just going to be my anecdotal experience versus your anecdotal experience, I'm afraid.

drizek
September 12th, 2005, 01:06 AM
Yes, there are some linux h8ers, but it certainly isnt the majority of windows users. Even on forums like channel 9, which are about as fanboyie as you can get have linux users participate and linux issues discussed.

az
September 12th, 2005, 01:53 AM
Here's a crazy idea! Don't pimp linux on a Windows forum and don't pimp windows on a linux forum.

TravisNewman
September 12th, 2005, 02:28 AM
Here's a crazy idea! Don't pimp linux on a Windows forum and don't pimp windows on a linux forum.
or better yet, just stop pimping stuff everywhere.

people go where they're interested and hear things from word of mouth (especially Linux related)