having a "crisis of faith"

[jasonwatkins]

ok, 95% of the reason I made the switch full time to Linux was that I could get an Informix 4GL/SQL development environment up and running and develop code to keep my skillset up - i've been an informix programmer by trade for about 13 years, although i haven't worked for the last 8 years due to health reasons.

so it made sense to do this.

recently though, i've been looking at other career options and the need for an informix environment is becoming less and less by the week.

so invariably, that means my need for a linux operating system is also becoming less and less.

add to that the fact that most of the PC games i've got won't work under wine, and i'm currently wobbling.

i'm half heartedly putting together a folder of programs that i'd need to re-install windows - firewall e.t.c., but I'm sort of hoping I change my mind before committing to the re-format.

i like linux and i'm totally happy with it, but i don't know .. there's just a nagging thought that maybe it's worth "going back" for a while.

so .. change my mind for me :D

[jasonwatkins]

to add a bit more to that, i'm currently using the latest version of linux mint, "celena".

if ubuntu 7.10 has that 'wow' factor then I might be persuaded to give it a whirl :)

[sailor2001]

I was happy sailing along with dapper/edgy/fiesty and then I bought a 'n' router and the only way I could install was through windows.......damn...had to install the behemoth....

[bruce89]

It'd be worthwhile dual booting in this situation, but you'll have to reinstall both Windows and Ubuntu to get this to work now.

[maharbA]

If you really want to play your games, don't feel bad about dual-booting (you'll have to jump through more hoops, though, to put Windows on an Ubuntu machine than you would putting Ubuntu on a Windows machine). If you already own the games, your not supporting Windows-only game development (any more than you already have :) ).

If you do make the switch, you can still support FOSS by using open formats (ODF, etc., OGG, etc.)

As an incentive to stay, keep in mind your boot-up time. I don't know about your machine(s) but this laptop I'm on right now boots Ubuntu in 90 seconds, Windows takes about 4 minutes to load up PLUS another 3 minutes for Norton antivirus. That's a lot of waiting just to check email/surf the web.

[jinx099]

Why not dual boot? You could run windows for your games and everything that needs windows and linux for everything else. This is what I do, it works well for me.

[koenn]

If you're a programmer, you might enjoy programming ) even just for the sake of programming. . But informix is a database system, right ? Maybe find another db to play with ? Maybe combine both ?
In that case, linux is an interesting platform, because you have ready access to all sorts of tools (and their source code) - could keep you busy for a while and you might end up earning fame and glory in the world of Open source development.

However, if you just want to pass the time playing games, go Windows.

[Caffeine_Junky]

to add a bit more to that, i'm currently using the latest version of linux mint, "celena".

if ubuntu 7.10 has that 'wow' factor then I might be persuaded to give it a whirl :)

The latest version of Linux Mint would be Daryna (http://linuxmint.com/), and the differences between that and Ubuntu Gutsy are minimal, ..so the 'WOW factor' will be minimal as well (if there is any at all)

Fire-up Windows/dual boot it with linux and enjoy your games!

No need to feel bad about using Windows!

I use both..

[jasonwatkins]

i did notice daryna was actually the latest version after I posted that .. doh! :)

i did dual boot for a while because I was halfway through re-playing GTA: San Andreas, so when I completed that, I removed the Windows partition and went Linux all the way.

As far as the programming side goes, it's certainly something I genuinely do enjoy, and I enjoy creating things in that aspect, if i'm brutally honest, i'm not the greatest programmer in the world.

Whereas some of you could read a javascript manual and be knocking out applets inside a few days, i'd still be looking at it a month later and losing patience with it :D

When I tried getting a local webserver set up on my XP installation many years ago, I had to get a 15 year old to configure it for me because i couldn't work it out!

Informix 4GL isn't the hardest language in the world to learn, so it does tend to give you this comfort zone as far as programming goes. You can write decent code and write working database management systems for various things, but as far as shifting polygons around and stuff like that, you've got no hope !

When I was booting XP-only earlier this year, it didn't take too long to boot to be honest - I didn't use any anti-virus stuff, apart from the occasional check, but I did use the zonelabs free firewall.

And i've got 1gb of ram and a 3.6mhz processor as well, so it's a pretty nippy box at the best of times.

what doesn't help is that avidemux is available in windows as well - i bloody love that program :)

i'm just wondering if i need to go windows only for a few months and see how I get on.

i've been linux only since july, so maybe i need to go windows only for 6 months - maybe i'll see that the grass really isn't greener and there really is no need for any m*crosoft products on my machine at all.

hhhmmm .. still don't know .. thanks for all your persuading so far :D :D

[el_ricardo]

dual boot all the way, keep linux just for experimentation and stuff, and messing about! or format and use windows, buy a cheap crappy laptop off ebay and have ubuntu/<insertdistrohere> on there, then if you definatly need it for your SQL and database work or whatever you've still got a linux box to work with!

[jasonwatkins]

you know the laptop route might not be such a bad idea.

i could get something like a thinkpad for next to nothing and set something up on that.

that's a bloody good idea actually :D

[toupeiro]

I'm not going to attempt to change your mind. :-) I'm going to tell you that if you have a nagging windows itch, maybe you should scratch it... Nobody should have to change your mind, you should do whats best for how you use a computer.

When I think Programming and Windows, I think high out of pocket costs, ridiculous licensing, and bloat. That may not be what you think though.

[jasonwatkins]

That may not be what you think though.

when i look at something like nero, that's exactly what i think.

i think it's pretty much stitched on that i'll be scratching that itch before the week is out. i've backed up 17 gig's worth of music, so that's not going to be for nothing :)

i think going back to windows only for a few months will probably be a good idea, because as i said, i'll get to see if it's really worth it.

[toupeiro]

when i look at something like nero, that's exactly what i think.

i think it's pretty much stitched on that i'll be scratching that itch before the week is out. i've backed up 17 gig's worth of music, so that's not going to be for nothing :)

i think going back to windows only for a few months will probably be a good idea, because as i said, i'll get to see if it's really worth it.


Well, if you already have windows, are "genuine", and aren't spending a couple hundred bucks to scratch the itch, I would have to agree with you. I will tell you though, that I like seeing the reversal of the roles. Someone using Linux today, is testing windows to see if its worth switching to. Thats almost poetic. :-)


I've done the same thing, to be honest. Not on my primary box, but on another box I have. I will happily share with you two things that solidified ubuntu for me in the first week.

1) Windows updates. Even when manually installed, I bet constantly interrupted by windows letting me know that I need to reboot. Some tasks, windows wouldn't even let me do until I rebooted.

2) I have 915MB of data committed to RAM with 9 applications 'open'. This machine only has 1GB of RAM. now the best part. I still have 338MB of physical RAM free (poor use of physical RAM)

My 5 most memory taxing processes, in order from greatest to least were:
1) Outlook
2) Virus Scanner
3) Internet Explorer
4) Journaling
5) Acrobat Reader


The beauty here was that I don't have near 915MB of data commited to RAM on linux, what I do have committed, not a single meg is resident in virtual ram space, and I do WAY more on my linux box than my Windows box. The answer to me was in the numbers. :) I'd like to hear how your testing goes!

[jasonwatkins]

i'll most certainly let you know.

funny thing is, i was trying to run a manual update to upgrade from celena to daryna, and i've sort of messed it up.

it boots straight into the memtest and doesn't give me an option to boot into the kernel any more.

rather than trawl through the web to try and find a solution, i think i'll just have to re-install you-know-what :)

personally, i'd rather install XP, but i don't have a copy of that ..

so Vista here i come :( :( :(

[DoctorMO]

Nobody would post this kind of thread without either wanting to be convinced out of installing windows or more likely given a kind of pardon for doing it. You don't have to explain to us if you need to install windows, some people use linux for practical reasons and those same people will use windows for practical reasons.

Those of us like myself who use Linux for moral reasons won't use windows, even for practical reasons. But you have to consider that we're idealists and no great game or great reason will convince us to shift position; But that doesn't mean you have to believe the same things.

Oh and you'll regret it anyway, installing windows for games is like eating a Cut me own throat dibbler sausage in a bun; sometimes you just have the urge to eat one, it's not until afterwards when you realise why you had your doubts. (normally from a toilet seat)

[el_ricardo]

thats the exact opposite of what happened to me, i did a major windows update back when it was my main OS, although with a load of registry hacks and such like that i had done, the update left my XP unusable! I wanted to reinstall windows, so i booted into a liveCD (slax) to back up my data, and after that i just continued to use slax, purely out of convenience, because i couldn't be bothered to install windows, then i had this huge debate with my flatmate over whether to just install windows, or continue to use linux .... needless to say i continued with linux, and later installed ubuntu 5.10

i did get round to installing windows though and now i dual boot lol

[cipher_nemo]

Those of us like myself who use Linux for moral reasons won't use windows, even for practical reasons.

You made a very good distinction between the two different camps of people who use Ubuntu. I am certainly in your "moral" camp simply because I believe in open source software and also despise Microsoft's business practices and treatment of their "customers".

I am still stuck with XP for a while, but only on two PCs (the other two have Ubuntu). I am mostly building up my nerve and experience with Ubuntu before I upgrade my gaming rig to it. All of my current games are known to work well in either Wine or Cedega, and I am ready to give up SLI for a while (until my 8800GTX cards are outdated, or until Linux gains SLI support).

For the OP, I'd like to reinforce what DoctorMO mentioned: you'll regret it. You might benefit from a dual-boot system, but for me, I'm in the 'moral' camp, and it's either all Linux or nothing when I make my final switch. Fortunately, we're at a great time in the evolution of Ubuntu, where there's support, tweaks, and 'work-arounds' for almost everything related to a PC running Linux.


Cut me own throat dibbler sausage in a bun...

I laughed at your joke, as I know the gist of it, but I'm not sure what type of sausage is a "dibbler"?

[darklemming54]

If you don't to use linux, I don't see any reason to keep it. It seems like windows is the best choice in you situation. If you hate virus scanners and firewalls, then you can probably go without them. I run windows all the time and have never gotten a virus, even though I never run a virus scanner (I have one installed that I manually run periodically, but its never running in the background.) , just be careful about things you run. Firewalls aren't necessary if you have a hardware firewall. If you like linux and want to use it for other reasons, then dual booting is a good idea. You obviously shouldn't run linux exclusively if it will hurt your career to do so.

[Tundro Walker]

One word for you buddy...

*SHUN!*

...just kidding.

I've actually been thinking of buying a copy of XP and dual-booting myself, because I'd really, really like to play Half-Life 2, Portal and BioShock. Other than that, though, I do everything on Ubuntu, and have been for almost two years now.

The gaming situation would be the only reason I'd install it. For everything else, music, programming, etc, Windows just makes it too difficult, too expensive, or too risky to do so. I mean, I found it very hard to get into more programming on Windows, because it was hard to find some decent tools that didn't cost an arm and a leg. But on Linux, they toss them at you on a silver platter. Plus, on Linux, you have the extra incentive that the programming you learn today can help shape the very system tomorrow. On Windows, you can just create programs that overlay on some OS that you never get to mess with.

[HermanAB]

The right tool for the job...

Windows is excellent for playing games. For anything serious, I use Linux.

[toupeiro]

How do you know he'll regret it? He may not...

[michaelzap]

Dual booting would give you the opportunity to compare the two systems and use each for the tasks that seem most appropriate. I still have an XP installation on my PC so that I can create Flash files and occasionally play a game. But every time I boot into XP I can't believe how slow and ungraceful it feels. It's like driving a 1970s station wagon with bad shocks and a loose steering wheel. And Vista is the Hummer of operating systems. Just installing it probably causes an ice shelf in Greenland to melt and fall into the sea.

[cipher_nemo]

How do you know he'll regret it? He may not...

The OP used Linux and/or *nix for 13 years. It's safe to say that if we ditched Linux and switches to to Windows, he'll regret losing all of that control over his O/S. :-P

[forrestcupp]

The only thing about dual booting is that when you realize that you can run any program and do anything that you want in Windows, you don't have a lot of incentive to boot to Linux. Sure, there's Compiz/Fusion, but why do I want to keep booting back and forth just for that?

[AndyCR]

I often go back to Windows to see if I should switch back, and I always soon end up back on Linux. XP simply lacks features which I need (a nice fast compiler/debugger combo that works (a co-developer on my project uses Windows and $2,500 of Microsoft development tools, and his compiles take 7 times longer than mine on a faster machine), easy dev library management, a very good search tool like Beagle which lets me find things not only in normal files but in source files and find folders as well, built-in command line development tools like diff (I was astonished yesterday when I realized that Windows lacks simple tools like diff after getting used to them on Linux), good window management (compiz fusion IS useful as well as pretty), and more. Vista solves some of these things, but others always crop up, and Vista is far too slow for me to use without getting frustrated. (Where did I put that library? Ah, locate *boost_python*.so. On Windows, I would have to resort to the built in search tool and watch a puppy frolic on my screen for 20 minutes until it found it...) All in all, I can see how many don't mind using Windows, but I simply can't go back after using Linux for so long. I still reboot into it occasionally to catch up on gaming, though :)

[jasonwatkins]

well my first problem that has arisen is that one of the 8.5gb dual layer dvd's i used to back up part of my MP3 collection won't actually read.

I get plenty of cyclic redundancy errors when I try to copy the files

so it's going well (not .....)

[DoctorMO]

I laughed at your joke, as I know the gist of it, but I'm not sure what type of sausage is a "dibbler"?

Your not laughing nearly enough since you don't get the reference, please read Terry Pratchett Discworld books and enlightenment will befall you ;-).


well my first problem that has arisen is that one of the 8.5gb dual layer dvd's i used to back up part of my MP3 collection won't actually read.

I had that trouble but it turned out that the dvd drive wasn't built to read double layered data discs on this system76 laptop; I ended up plugging a firewire external dvd burner into it to get the dvd to work.

[toupeiro]

The OP used Linux and/or *nix for 13 years. It's safe to say that if we ditched Linux and switches to to Windows, he'll regret losing all of that control over his O/S. :-P

he was an informix DBA, not a systems admin.. Who's to say he needed and/or utilized all that control over his OS? My point is, How can you, who are not he, be so sure he will regret his decisions? He's been doing computer work for 13 years, regardless of his OS experience. I think he knows well enough what he is doing. Even if he decides windows is not for him, whats to regret? He's not stuck with windows, and he is not out of a position that he can do a dual-boot.

I just think its in bad taste when windows users wag their fingers at people saying "don't go to linux, you'll regret it". Its equally in bad taste when linux users wag their fingers at people for considering Windows again.

If you try to make a case that Windows it technically superior and that is why you are switching, I'm all over something like that. However, when it comes down to individual needs and usage, in the end you cannot speak for anybody but yourself.

[cipher_nemo]

I just think its in bad taste when windows users wag their fingers at people saying "don't go to linux, you'll regret it". Its equally in bad taste when linux users wag their fingers at people for considering Windows again.

You're probably making too much out of a casual remark. :) As for me (and who knows who else), I don't consider it in bad taste to mention that someone will probably regret switching from Linux to Windows.

For me, Linux is a moral and political choice, not a choice made out of necessity or convenience. Therefore my viewpoint is probably very different than yours. I have no qualms or hangups over pointing out all of the issues with Microsoft and Vista, and I certainly have no issues supporting and evangelizing on Ubuntu.

After all, this entire forum is supported by the Ubuntu community, not the Windows community, even though Windows users are certainly welcome here.

[jasonwatkins]

after a day or so on windows, i must admit to finding it somewhat akin to that comfortable pair of shoes you find at the back of the cupboard.

it's all very familiar :)

i found a recovery program for my MP3's and got all bar about 100 back, but i'm keeping the disks anyway because it may well have been a mistake on my part not writing them out properly in K3B.

The Winamp Ipod plugin is possibly the easiest thing ever invented, although I was getting reasonably efficient with Floola.

Nero is .. not K3B :)

I guess to be fair to linux, i only really used it full time for 6 months, as opposed to using windows full time for some 15 odd years, so I imagine that if i'd used linux for the same length of time then i'd probably feel just as familiar with that as I do with windows.

Anyway, it's early days yet. I may be back on Linux before the year is out, you never know :D

[jasonwatkins]

i thought i'd resurrect this thread for "posterity" :D

well, it's been two months to the day that I went back to XP and guess what - i'm back on Linux :D

i reformatted earlier and i've just finished installing the like of K3B and XMMS.

I decided to go back to Mint because that's what I used beforehand and the new version "daryna" is working like a dream - smoother than a baby's bum.

To be honest, XP just left me cold. Yes it was familiar, yes it was comfortable but I didn't really gain anything from it.

Maybe i've moved on from PC games, but over the past few months, I found that everything I was using my PC for could be done in Linux.

And I like Linux :)

And there's the added advantage of Informix being usable in this again.

You know, having been back on XP exclusively for 2 months, I can honestly say I can't see me ever going back to it at all now. I've kept my XP and Vista disks (Vista mainly because it came with the PC) but they will be stored in the bottom draw of the wardrobe for sure because I know i'll never need them.

I've just got to re-learn all the tricks I learnt last time now :D

[forrestcupp]

Welcome back. If you find yourself "wobbling" again, just set up a dual boot, even if you only primarily use one or the other. For a while, I wobbled back and forth so much that I got tired of formatting and installing. So now I just keep a dual boot at all times even though I very rarely ever boot to Vista.

Now lets see how many people don't read your new post and try to talk you into staying with Linux.

[Daveski]

With 15 years of Windows experience, I would say well done for committing to Linux again. I would say that you should really try hard to find a Linux solution to all your problems, even when you KNOW that you know how to do something in Windows.

I have to flit back and forth as I work with XP, but use Ubuntu at home. I also have many years experience with Windows, but I am getting less comfortable with it every day and I am starting to miss some of the commands I use in Linux when I am in Windows.

[cprofitt]

You made a very good distinction between the two different camps of people who use Ubuntu. I am certainly in your "moral" camp simply because I believe in open source software and also despise Microsoft's business practices and treatment of their "customers".

I am stuck with Windows because it pays the bills... but I hear what you are saying... though to be honest the slack that people give Apple annoys me to no end. I personally think Apple is much worse than Microsoft. MS at least lets other people provide food for their families using their products and building computers for their OS. Apple locks everything down and is a greedy pig at the trough.

[cprofitt]

Maybe i've moved on from PC games, but over the past few months, I found that everything I was using my PC for could be done in Linux.

The death of the PC game in my heart has been the catalyst for moving to Linux. Unfortunately for me my job is still Windows based... and I spent almost $300 on a video card (8800GTS) last April and haven't really played a decent game with it... that was $300 I wish I had back.

[forrestcupp]

I am stuck with Windows because it pays the bills... but I hear what you are saying... though to be honest the slack that people give Apple annoys me to no end. I personally think Apple is much worse than Microsoft. MS at least lets other people provide food for their families using their products and building computers for their OS. Apple locks everything down and is a greedy pig at the trough.

Agreed.

[jasonwatkins]

the main thing i did in windows was ripping, converting and authoring dvd's.

i used avidemux for converting when I was on Linux and when I was on XP, I used .. avidemux :)

And you can't beat qdvdauthor .. i love that application and i'm glad I'm going to be able to use it again.

now if only i could get yamipod working again :D

[cipher_nemo]

Apple locks everything down and is a greedy pig at the trough.

Very true. They've done it time and time again, and what makes it worse, is that Microsoft is copying from them again with Vista (one of the many reasons why Vista really bites).

You're still not officially supported if you run MacOS X on PC hardware. Even after the griping and complaining by MacOS users. Even after others have ripped apart their OS to run on PC hardware, and even after Apple continues to try to silence sites that discuss the process.

Apple is no different than Microsoft, except that Apple is much more vindictive about their crap-policies.

If you ever publicly cross Apple by violating one of their policies or copyrights, they will personally come down on your like a sack of bricks. Microsoft will just add you to a list of people they "threaten" to sue.

[Trap_]

Whenever I need to install windows for something or other, I tend to do it virtually (Although this is probably not what you'd want if you were looking at playing games), it tends to do the job and saves me the hassle of dual booting.