Forums vs. IRC

[kd7swh]

The Ubuntu Forums have always been a positive and friendly place for me to come with my questions. Perhaps more importantly, I feel like I can be myself without fear of being bashed or criticized for my opinions or sense of humor.

But lately the Ubuntu IRC channel is another story. Its almost like a bunch of hardcore debian package admins took over the channel who tell you to "just read the manpages" and "google it".

I am not trying to say anything bad about all debian package admins, some of you are rockstars and you know who you are, but some of you are a bit stuffy.

What is different about IRC? Is it just the nature of live chat?
I feel stepped on in IRC, looked down at, and maybe even abused. So Ubuntu Community, as a longtime user, and a student of the social sciences, I want to know what your thoughts are on the social dynamics of IRC vs. Forums.

Does informal social control create hierarchies (or gangs) in IRC?
Do forums use more formal measures?
Which is better and Why?

[cyclefiend2000]

never used IRC. i prefer the look and feel of forums in general though.

[Dreamy1]

IRC Seems strange to me, I don't ever use IRC, maybe I should?

[TeraDyne]

While I don't go to "#ubuntu" (unless I'm just bored), I can say that "#kubuntu" is generally very friendly.

As for which is better... I find IRC easier to ask about technical problems, but the forms tend to be better for social interaction. "#kubuntu-offtopic" tends to be dead, but I can always find a good conversation going on here. However, when I need help FAST, nothing beats IRC. Well, unless you have the actual developer there next to you to figure it out. >_>;

[23meg]

Does informal social control create hierarchies (or gangs) in IRC?

There is a formal governance mechanism in the Ubuntu IRC channels: it's the IRC Council (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/), which is the IRC counterpart of the Forum Council (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncil).

[Lostincyberspace]

I know when I go in to Irc I have a hard time getting to the right place and have not been able to get to the right one yet I think. But I have only tried once for a bout 10 seconds.

[p_quarles]

I actually enjoy #ubuntu, and think most of the people there are pretty nice. I haven't encountered the attitude you're describing.

I will say, though, that some people are prone to asking for kinds of help that don't really belong in a busy IRC channel. I mean, stuff like "how do I use NDISwrapper" doesn't fit. The explanation is too detailed to give in real-time, and there are plentiful tutorials on the official forums as well as elsewhere in the internet.

Conversely, a question like "I tried using NDISwrapper to get my Broadcom XYZ card working, using the tutorial in this link, but it's giving me so-and-so error at step 8, What am I doing wrong?" is a good IRC question.

IRC just isn't the best place to seek detailed, step-by-step instructions.

[jayson.rowe]

Voted for IRC, but I use both...

[23meg]

I will say, though, that some people are prone to asking for kinds of help that don't really belong in a busy IRC channel. I mean, stuff like "how do I use NDISwrapper" doesn't fit. The explanation is too detailed to give in real-time, and there are plentiful tutorials on the official forums as well as elsewhere in the internet.

Conversely, a question like "I tried using NDISwrapper to get my Broadcom XYZ card working, using the tutorial in this link, but it's giving me so-and-so error at step 8, What am I doing wrong?" is a good IRC question.

IRC just isn't the best place to seek detailed, step-by-step instructions.

Well said.

There's a certain kind of support that can be effectively given over IRC, and then only a subset of that kind of support can be given over an IRC channel with hundreds of people. Jumping into a busy IRC channel and expecting people to spoon-feed you on a well documented procedure is.. not good.

[bruce89]

The IRC channel is chaotic, which makes things rather tricky.

[kd7swh]

There is a formal governance mechanism in the Ubuntu IRC channels: it's the IRC Council (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/), which is the IRC counterpart of the Forum Council (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncil).

Hmm. I wonder how effective conflict resolution is for problems in IRC. Its nice to think that it would work, but I don't know if it would really be functional.

I am guessing that its never been used anyway, Most people (like me) would just leave IRC before it escalated to that point.

[kd7swh]

While I don't go to "#ubuntu" (unless I'm just bored), I can say that "#kubuntu" is generally very friendly.

As for which is better... I find IRC easier to ask about technical problems, but the forms tend to be better for social interaction. "#kubuntu-offtopic" tends to be dead, but I can always find a good conversation going on here. However, when I need help FAST, nothing beats IRC. Well, unless you have the actual developer there next to you to figure it out. >_>;

Point noted:

As others have also said here, there are certain types of questions that are more conducive to one or the other. IRC has its place as do forums, but I think TeraDyne is right in saying "form[u]s tend to be better for social interaction."

[23meg]

The IRC Council has newly been approved; it's about two months old.


Its nice to think that it would work, but I don't know if it would really be functional.

You don't know, because you haven't tried.

[kd7swh]

The IRC Council has newly been approved; it's about two months old.




You don't know, because you haven't tried.


Thats true, but I was just wondering about its effectiveness because of the nature of IRC. Sure there are log files, but its very hard to deal with something that fluid. I guess I have to hand it to them. I sounds like it would be a tough job if there is ever a big problem.

[23meg]

Sure there are log files, but its very hard to deal with something that fluid.

Pretty easy to find out what's been said in any channel at any given time:

http://irclogs.ubuntu.com

[bobbocanfly]

#ubuntu is insane but very friendly and if you can keep up you can learn a lot. #ubuntu-motu is hilarious as there are hundreds of people scurrying about working as hard as possible, which is just quite funny.

The Gutsy release party in #ubuntu-release-party was brilliant. Was in there for hours on the 17th and 18th.

I still prefer forums though as IRC can be quite intimidating if you dont know who you are chatting to.

[Lord_Dicranius]

I use both, but prefer the forums.

[timpino]

I like the idea of irc, but it's just too chaotic for me

[bonzodog]

Just to remind people that the forums have their own channel, which does casual chat as well as lend a hand when it can. Just type:

/join #ubuntuforums into any IRC client when logged into IRC.

[toupeiro]

I haven't seriously used IRC in at least 11 years... and I don't miss it :)

[phrostbyte]

Well said.

There's a certain kind of support that can be effectively given over IRC, and then only a subset of that kind of support can be given over an IRC channel with hundreds of people. Jumping into a busy IRC channel and expecting people to spoon-feed you on a well documented procedure is.. not good.

That's what ubotu is for. God that bot is a real asset to the Ubuntu project, no joke. It helped me personally many of times when I was a n00b.

<ubuntu_newbie> How do I set up Ndiswrapper?
<me> !ndiswrapper > ubuntu_newbie

[klange]

I will always prefer forums having written written (http://home.ogunderground.com) one myself (http://home.oasis-games.com).
And because I just don't normally go into IRC chats...

[chris4585]

i'm a IRC'er but most of the channels i'm on are idle most of the time, and i've been to the official ubuntu irc channel on freenod? i forget, anyway, i didnt have a positive experience there, no one really helped alot...

I like forums better, you get a quick response usually

[LookTJ]

I didn't vote, but both the forums and IRC is used for different purposes. I would vote for "Both".

[reacocard]

Definitely the forums. IRC or other chat systems are good if you have a quick question or need someone to guide you trough it interactively, but otherwise its best to just use the forums, especially since then everyone can benefit from the interaction, not just those who happen to be online and paying attention at that moment.