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View Full Version : Forum HowTo: Get genuine help, not angry backlash



aysiu
September 9th, 2005, 07:18 PM
Every now and then, someone with fewer than ten posts comes on the Ubuntu Forums and says something inflammatory, then wonders why the Ubuntu community doesn't say, "Thanks so much for coming in here and stirring things up!" The original post-er then wonders, "Why can't anyone who uses Ubuntu admit that there's anything wrong with Ubuntu/Linux? Why do they have to attack someone for criticizing?"

I've often read comments by people like this that seem to indicate they were well-intentioned, so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

If you are well-intentioned, though, please keep these things in mind:

1. Going to a distro's forum is like going to someone's home. You don't go to someone's home and have the first remark out of your mouth be, "This place could certainly use some improvement. Let me tell you where to start." After you've lived there a while, and it's your home, too, your disparaging remarks will be more likely looked upon as constructive criticism. For now, they're rude comments from a guest.

2. You'll find that people (particularly on this forum) are helpful, humble, understanding, and patient, if you ask things as a simple question. I noticed that when someone created a thread entitled "What do you like least about Ubuntu?" many of the forum's regular members chimed in and made it a quite long thread. We're willing to admit there are things wrong with the OS if you ask us, but don't just start off by telling us, "Look, I've used Ubuntu for one minute. Let me tell you what's wrong with it." This is like telling someone, "Your mother's way too uptight. She just needs to relax!" It's a lot different from saying, "Does your mom ever get on your nerves?" and having your friend reply, "Yeah, she's just too uptight sometimes. She needs to relax."

3. There are several different tones with which you can ask a question. Let's say, for example, that the sound isn't working in your Ubuntu installation. You could say

a. Hi. I'm new. I don't really know that much about Linux, so please walk me through this step by step. I can't get my sound working. I tried opening the mixer, and I'm pretty sure it's not muted. Can anyone help me?

or you could say

b. What the f&*$ck is wrong with Ubuntu? It won't even recognize my sound. Every distro should do that straight away. What a pile of crap.

Now which do you think would get a more helpful response?*

4. Having a low post count doesn't mean you're an idiot, an amateur, or not a credible source. It does, however, mean (especially if you have under ten posts) that you're new and somewhat of a guest. It doesn't take much to become part of the family, but if your first seven posts are all bashing Ubuntu, it'll be hard for the other forum members to shake that first impression of you.

5. No one will attack you for no good reason. Sure, it'd be nice if everyone "turned the other cheek." I have to say that Poofyhairyguy is the most even-tempered member I've seen. I, however--like many other members--will be the nicest of nice if you ask politely but I'll get quite upset if you make a whole bunch of negative statements about Ubuntu and then say, "Hey, why is everyone getting upset?"

Bottom line: be polite, reasonable, and geniunely curious, and the community will be receptive and vulnerable. Be obnoxious, critical, and arrogant right off the bat, and the community will backlash. We're human that way... and Ubuntu is, after all, Linux for human beings.

* And a message from Stormy Eyes: when asking questions related to hardware, it's more helpful to mention exactly what sort of hardware you're having trouble with (make, model number, etc.) than to be vague. I'm more willing to help if somebody says, "I need help with ALSA on my Audigy2 card" instead of just "Help me with my sound card".

P.S. And if you really believe something is wrong with Ubuntu that needs fixing, talk to the developers (https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/), not the users.

arnieboy
September 9th, 2005, 07:27 PM
slam dunk yet again aysiu! now come join The Coffee Mug Club (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=63926). We'll make u president :)

mike998
September 9th, 2005, 07:31 PM
Bottom line: be polite, reasonable, and geniunely curious, and the community will be receptive and vulnerable. Be obnoxious, critical, and arrogant right off the bat, and the community will backlash. We're human that way... and Ubuntu is, after all, Linux for human beings.

WOW! - Very cool - maybe this should be put part of the FAQ...
*sniff* you guys/gals are my family... I love you guys :smile:

byen
September 9th, 2005, 07:34 PM
WOW! - Very cool - maybe this should be put part of the FAQ...
*sniff* you guys/gals are my family... I love you guys :smile:
uh....you know how sometimes some things are so hard to say..yu just cant say it...well yu did...i did not...LOL

Kyral
September 9th, 2005, 07:38 PM
Yah, I know I'm generally helpful and nice if you are in return. Basically whatever kind of attitude you give in your post is the kind you can expect me to give you.

Oh, keep in mind that I do enjoy going off on people. I have a little BOFH in me :P

Case in point. The two examples that aysiu posted.

a. Hi. I'm new. I don't really know that much about Linux, so please walk me through this step by step. I can't get my sound working. I tried opening the mixer, and I'm pretty sure it's not muted. Can anyone help me?

Would get a nice very helpful response out of me. With most likely a "Welcome to Linux!"

However this...

b. What the f&*$ck is wrong with Ubuntu? It won't even recognize my sound. Every distro should do that straight away. What a pile of crap.

Would get something along the lines of "Go **** yourself"

Get my meaning :P

aysiu
September 9th, 2005, 07:53 PM
Oh, keep in mind that I do enjoy going off on people. I have a little BOFH in me :P What does BOFH stand for? I tried searching for the term (http://www.abbreviationz.com/bs.asp?st=BOFH&CRAWL=1&SE=1), but I couldn't find it.

arnieboy
September 9th, 2005, 07:55 PM
What does BOFH stand for? I tried searching for th term (http://www.abbreviationz.com/bs.asp?st=BOFH&CRAWL=1&SE=1), but I couldn't find it.
BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL Mr. President :)

aysiu
September 9th, 2005, 08:00 PM
BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL Mr. President :) Thanks for the translation. I'm still a newbie.

By the way, I don't think I should be the president, since there's already a user called El Presidente (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=37073), whose birthday is today!

Stormy Eyes
September 9th, 2005, 08:03 PM
BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL Mr. President :)

Also known as Stormy Eyes. aysiu, I'd suggest one addition to your howto, mainly because it's a pet peeve of mine: when asking questions related to hardware, it's more helpful to mention exactly what sort of hardware you're having trouble with (make, model number, etc.) than to be vague. I'm more willing to help if somebody says, "I need help with ALSA on my Audigy2 card" instead of just "Help me with my sound card".

Kyral
September 9th, 2005, 08:06 PM
Yah, give info, like the output of lspci, or what you were doing, etc. We aren't psychic yanno :P

aysiu
September 9th, 2005, 08:07 PM
Also known as Stormy Eyes. aysiu, I'd suggest one addition to your howto, mainly because it's a pet peeve of mine: when asking questions related to hardware, it's more helpful to mention exactly what sort of hardware you're having trouble with (make, model number, etc.) than to be vague. I'm more willing to help if somebody says, "I need help with ALSA on my Audigy2 card" instead of just "Help me with my sound card". Done. I also added a link to Bugzilla.

Brunellus
September 9th, 2005, 08:08 PM
Yah, give info, like the output of lspci, or what you were doing, etc. We aren't psychic yanno :P
they wouldn't know how to open a terminal, most of 'em.

Remember, most noobs don't know their computers much more than "uh, it's a Dell." Same way most people won't know who made the alternator in their car....

Stormy Eyes
September 9th, 2005, 08:08 PM
Yah, give info, like the output of lspci, or what you were doing, etc. We aren't psychic yanno :P

Nor are we interested in playing "20 Questions" after a day spent doing it with co-workers, superiors, and clients. :)

Stormy Eyes
September 9th, 2005, 08:09 PM
they wouldn't know how to open a terminal, most of 'em.

Remember, most noobs don't know their computers much more than "uh, it's a Dell." Same way most people won't know who made the alternator in their car....

Fine. Then tell me what model Dell it is, so I can look up the specs myself. Give me as much information as you can up front. Don't make me play twenty questions.

aysiu
September 9th, 2005, 08:12 PM
Fine. Then tell me what model Dell it is, so I can look up the specs myself. Give me as much information as you can up front. Don't make me play twenty questions. Yes, I think the idea is to give us as much information as possible. "bash: command not found" is much better than "it didn't work."

Stormy Eyes
September 9th, 2005, 08:14 PM
Yes, I think the idea is to give us as much information as possible. "bash: command not found" is much better than "it didn't work."

Exactly. I know that you might be a newbie, but I still expect you to meet me partway. I'm not a flaming telepath.

poofyhairguy
September 9th, 2005, 08:52 PM
We'll make u president :)

I second the nomination!