Coffee Mug Club

[arnieboy]

I thought of starting this thread to try and form a kind of a consortium of "Walking Coffee Mugs" (guys with 600+ posts) on ubuntuforums. This group is also open to donors, moderators and admins who have different title tags but have 600+posts. I think its important that regulars on this forum should get to know each other by first name atleast. It will certainly go a long way in gelling this group of ubuntuforum veterans. This thread can also be used to discuss topics related to betterment of this forum which can be picked up by the admins and mods.
I will start off with myself. I am Arnav, planted in Pennsylvania, United States.

Group Members till now:
1) Bill Weber (KingBahamut)
2) Mike (mike998)
3) Vishal Mistry (lao_V)
4) Matthew Graybosch (Stormy Eyes)
5) Jonathan (poofyhairguy)
6) Steve Myers (Steve Myers)
7) Matthew Helmke (matthew)
8) Firdaus bin Aziz (Buffalo Soldier)
9) Grant (manicka)
10) Travis (panickedthumb)
11) Alberto (tseliot)
12) Ben (benplaut)
13) Johannes Räftegård (krusbjorn)
14) Arnav (arnieboy)

P.S.: Hey guys, please dont bring negative sentiment into this thread by saying things like "whats the use of this and U are trying to be separatist".
NO, we are not trying to form an elite clique or sumthin! We are just getting to know our senior (senior in terms of participation) members better and this might help discuss issues and further the cause of linux and ubuntu to the world.

[KingBahamut]

Yo Ho!!

Bill Weber
Atlanta GA, USA.

[arnieboy]

Yo Ho!!

Bill Weber
Atlanta GA, USA.
Yo Ho Bill! A few more willing enthusiasts and we cud set the ball rolling towards something more official and interesting. One nice surprise today was the reduction of stickies in the chat forum. I had put forward this suggestion a few weeks back and its nice to see that it was heard.. This forum looks a lot neater now!

[mike998]

I thought of starting this thread to try and form a kind of a consortium of "Walking Coffee Mugs" (guys with 600+ posts) on ubuntuforums. This group is also open to donors, moderators and admins who have different title tags but have 600+posts. I think its important that regulars on this forum should get to know each other by first name atleast. It will certainly go a long way in gelling this group of ubuntuforum veterans. This thread can also be used to discuss topics related to betterment of this forum which can be picked up by the admins and mods.
I will start off with myself. I am Arnav, planted in Pennsylvania, United States.


I don't post that much, but have been a member of this forum for a long time. I view this forum nearly every day (excepting days I go to visit my in-laws or similar) so where does that put me?

[arnieboy]

I don't post that much, but have been a member of this forum for a long time. I view this forum nearly every day (excepting days I go to visit my in-laws or similar) so where does that put me?
Right in the group Mike :) we love to make exceptions!

[lao_V]

I'm 10 short (9 after this one) of 600! Give me a day to catch up :-)

I'm Vishal Mistry. I've been ubuntu-addict for about six months. Man, that sounds like I'm in a rehab or something.

I think the idea of a "club" is great but is the place right? I mean, we all communicate through posts/blogs on this forum and it takes only few minutes to fill our profile here for everyone else to look at.

I believe it will create a gap in the community where dividing them on how many posts you've had and you're not good enuough to join because you only have 10 posts even though that person might be using Linux since the dark ages.

Not trying to discourage but just trying to understand how it would work and what it would achieve. Maybe start with the manifesto or something?

[arnieboy]

I'm 10 short (9 after this one) of 600! Give me a day to catch up :-)

I'm Vishal Mistry. I've been ubuntu-addict for about six months. Man, that sounds like I'm in a rehab or something.

I think the idea of a "club" is great but is the place right? I mean, we all communicate through posts/blogs on this forum and it takes only few minutes to fill our profile here for everyone else to look at.

I believe it will create a gap in the community where dividing them on how many posts you've had and you're not good enuough to join because you only have 10 posts even though that person might be using Linux since the dark ages.

Not trying to discourage but just trying to understand how it would work and what it would achieve. Maybe start with the manifesto or something?
The real objective of this club is to bring together ubuntuforums enthusiasts and veterans (they might or might not have been associated with Linux since the dark ages). This club will discuss issues related (but not restricted) to ubuntuforums and how to make this a much better place for everyone. The objective is not to create any gap among community members but to gel ubuntuforum veterans together. We already have quite a bit of respect for each other and therez no better place than this to express the same and discuss issues in a harmonious fashion.
Welcome to the group Vishal. U dont need to wait to fill up the 9 remaining posts to join this group! welcome aboard :)

[KingBahamut]

If your in rehab, then theres no hope for me it would seem.

I might as well go down to 5th and main , and sit on the corner...."Hey Man I got some really hot Ubuntu here.....come on man...its free...try it youll like it....."

[Stormy Eyes]

The name's Matthew Graybosch, and I'll keep my location private. ;-)

[arnieboy]

The name's Matthew Graybosch, and I'll keep my location private. ;-)
Welcome aboard Matt :)

[Stormy Eyes]

Welcome aboard Matt :)

Thanks, but please call me 'Matthew'. A 'Matt' is something people step on, after all. :)

[Brunellus]

man. it was only a matter of time before all the cool kids spun off into a clique of their own.

[arnieboy]

Thanks, but please call me 'Matthew'. A 'Matt' is something people step on, after all. :)
Matthew it will be from now on :)

[poofyhairguy]

I hope I qualify. :)

Jonathan

College Station, TX

[arnieboy]

I hope I qualify. :)

Jonathan

College Station, TX
U surely do captain :) welcome aboard!

[arnieboy]

man. it was only a matter of time before all the cool kids spun off into a clique of their own.
a clique with a difference. u are welcome to join too brun! I need a name though :)

[KingBahamut]

man. it was only a matter of time before all the cool kids spun off into a clique of their own.


Im not cool.

Im an utter nerd.

[macgyver2]

This thread can also be used to discuss topics related to betterment of this forum which can be picked up by the admins and mods.
I don't understand the point of this. There's an entire section dedicated to discussion about the forums themselves. There's also a sticky in this section for posting ideas for the forum. Why discuss topics about the forums that fit in those places in this thread?

[Kvark]

I'm 10 short (9 after this one) of 600! Give me a day to catch up :-)

I'm Vishal Mistry. I've been ubuntu-addict for about six months. Man, that sounds like I'm in a rehab or something.

I think the idea of a "club" is great but is the place right? I mean, we all communicate through posts/blogs on this forum and it takes only few minutes to fill our profile here for everyone else to look at.

I believe it will create a gap in the community where dividing them on how many posts you've had and you're not good enuough to join because you only have 10 posts even though that person might be using Linux since the dark ages.

Not trying to discourage but just trying to understand how it would work and what it would achieve. Maybe start with the manifesto or something?
Yeah, this club might sound a bit elitist to someone who reads only the first post. Another question is if there is even any reason for a club like this.

But I think it sounds like a good idea. It can probably be very helpful in some way if done right. Perhaps the club could for example spread the very friendly climate these forums have or bring some more activity to the forum's IRC channel which was relatively empty last time I checked.


...oops, didn't mean to spam in a veterans' thread.
*Runs back to the newbies section to keep trying to learn enough to one day become experienced and helpful.*

[arnieboy]

I don't understand the point of this. There's an entire section dedicated to discussion about the forums themselves. There's also a sticky in this section for posting ideas for the forum. Why discuss topics about the forums that fit in those places in this thread?
cuz some members of this forum have been around much more than others, helping thousands of people get around their way in the world of ubuntu and linux in general. Its time we took a break and raised a toast to that!

[arnieboy]

Im not cool.

Im an utter nerd.
I used to be cool in high skool

[weekend warrior]

Originally Posted by arnieboy
One nice surprise today was the reduction of stickies in the chat forum.
You're welcome (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=63518) :)


ww

[poofyhairguy]

I don't understand the point of this. There's an entire section dedicated to discussion about the forums themselves. There's also a sticky in this section for posting ideas for the forum. Why discuss topics about the forums that fit in those places in this thread?

You misunderstand. This club can't really change the actual forum (as a mod I can tell you that the very generous man who pays for it all -Ubuntu Geek- gets the final say with that stuff).

But all of us help a lot of new people. It would be nice if the most active helpers and users were able to discuss strategies of helping, and discuss problem in the forum community that makes life as an active member that much harder.

This club will not be made official, but it is very beneficial.

[KingBahamut]

<nods>

[xequence]

Sounds cool :)

Total Posts: 309 (10.38 posts per day)

Thats in a month. Give me a month more ;P I was happy to reach 300, contributor.

[matthew]

I used to be cool in high skool
I think I was born a geek and nothing in the last 35 years has changed that...not that I mind being a geek.

BTW, I'm a few posts shy of the unofficial cut-off, but I would like to hang around anyway--if only to let some of the uber-coolness rub off onto me.

[KingBahamut]

Rubs himself a little then touches Matthew.

Now your cool.
=)

[matthew]

Rubs himself a little then touches Matthew.

Now your cool.
=)
Hey, thanks! Umm... I get to keep my sombrero, right? I've heard it's no fun being cool if you can't wear a sombrero.

[krusbjorn]

I've not been around forever, and i dont post 10 posts a day. But i read hundreds of them each day, and mostly, i like what i read ;). When i first came here, i was completely new to linux, and you all have helped me learn quit a lot during the last sex or seven months.

Name's Johannes, from Skövde, Sweden.

Oh, and btw, as fellow geeks, i need your to help my choose which glasses to buy (http://johannes.raftegard.se). It's in swedish, but easy to undertand. The guestbook, where you put your vote, is under "Avtryck":

[macgyver2]

You misunderstand. This club can't really change the actual forum (as a mod I can tell you that the very generous man who pays for it all -Ubuntu Geek- gets the final say with that stuff).

But all of us help a lot of new people. It would be nice if the most active helpers and users were able to discuss strategies of helping, and discuss problem in the forum community that makes life as an active member that much harder.

This club will not be made official, but it is very beneficial.
Thank you for elaborating. Perhaps I did misunderstand the exact intention of the part of the original post about discussing things for the betterment of the forums and bringing them to the attention of the admins. I still maintain, however, that discussions of strategies pertaining to helping others should be open to input from all...especially the ones being helped. The idea for the need of a "club" to discuss things like that seems unnecessary in my opinion. Why bother with the bureaucracy, even if it is minor or superficial?

[matthew]

Thank you for elaborating. Perhaps I did misunderstand the exact intention of the part of the original post about discussing things for the betterment of the forums and bringing them to the attention of the admins. I still maintain, however, that discussions of strategies pertaining to helping others should be open to input from all...especially the ones being helped. The idea for the need of a "club" to discuss things like that seems unnecessary in my opinion. Why bother with the bureaucracy, even if it is minor or superficial?
I probably should let arnieboy or others answer this, but seeing as I like to post I'll jump in as if I know what I am talking about.

My thought was that the word "club" was being used in the informal, fun sense rather than the exclusive, bureaucratic sense. My feeling was the OP intended simply to invite people who are active posters to hang out and chat specifically about how we might be able to improve our helpfulness. I didn't get a sense of "hey, let's find a place to hang out separate from the n00bs" nor an impression that detailed organizational structure was being called for.

[poofyhairguy]

The idea for the need of a "club" to discuss things like that seems unnecessary in my opinion. Why bother with the bureaucracy, even if it is minor or superficial?

Its not a bureaucracy, its a support group. It seems you think this will be like a new branch of the government here, when in reality it is probably closer to a divorced women's group (thinking of Jerry Maguire for some reason).

[XDevHald]

Its not a bureaucracy, its a support group. It seems you think this will be like a new branch of the government here, when in reality it is probably closer to a divorced women's group (thinking of Jerry Maguire for some reason).

when in reality it is probably closer to a divorced women's group (thinking of Jerry Maguire for some reason).

As funny as it sounds, it's actually true, and by reading the posts here it seems we have some guys that are in low posts that would like contribute, and that is awesome as it shows we will be having great contributors and supporters for the near future of the new ubuntu users. (Very cool) :D

Count me in Arnieboy.

Steve Myers
Orlando, Florida

[matthew]

I forgot to add who/where info for myself...

Matthew (or Matt or Mateo or Matieu or mtta or Matchew or something close) Helmke
Currently in Surprise, Arizona (suburb of Phoenix). I also have a home in Fez, Morocco.

[macgyver2]

Its not a bureaucracy, its a support group. It seems you think this will be like a new branch of the government here, when in reality it is probably closer to a divorced women's group (thinking of Jerry Maguire for some reason).
No no, not at all. I just don't see why if someone wants to talk about strategies to better help others on these forums they can't just start a thread called "Strategies to Better Help Others on These Forums" in the Site Discussion section. :) But I don't want to just keep going on and on about the same thing. I just don't quite get it...probably never will. :)

[Buffalo Soldier]

Hi everyone,

I'm Firdaus bin Aziz (meaning Firdaus son of Aziz). Just want to avoid people calling me bin Aziz and confuse me with someone you know who.

I'm from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. I've been an Ubuntu addict since sometime around Oct/Nov 2004.


No no, not at all. I just don't see why if someone wants to talk about strategies to better help others on these forums they can't just start a thread called "Strategies to Better Help Others on These Forums" in the Site Discussion section. :) But I don't want to just keep going on and on about the same thing. I just don't quite get it...probably never will. :)
I guess this is something like a War Veteran club. Probably you'll understand it after making a few hundred more post.

[Buffalo Soldier]

double post. sorry.

[poofyhairguy]

I guess this is something like a War Veteran club. Probably you'll understand it after making a few hundred more post.

SOOO much better analogy. A veteren club.

What was I thinking?

[manicka]

Nice idea Arnav! Looking forward to getting to know all the other 'mugs' better

Grant

Mittagong, Australia

Edit: Arnav, would it be a good idea to add the nicknames in brackets to the list at the top of this thread so that we can quickly see who's who? Just a thought.

[TravisNewman]

Count me in, I'm Travis.

I'll help with some of the ideas about howt o do this thing if you want

[arnieboy]

As funny as it sounds, it's actually true, and by reading the posts here it seems we have some guys that are in low posts that would like contribute, and that is awesome as it shows we will be having great contributors and supporters for the near future of the new ubuntu users. (Very cool) :D

Count me in Arnieboy.

Steve Myers
Orlando, Florida
welcome aboard Steve :)

[arnieboy]

I forgot to add who/where info for myself...

Matthew (or Matt or Mateo or Matieu or mtta or Matchew or something close) Helmke
Currently in Surprise, Arizona (suburb of Phoenix). I also have a home in Fez, Morocco.
The coffee mugs welcome u Matthew :)

[arnieboy]

Count me in, I'm Travis.

I'll help with some of the ideas about howt o do this thing if you want
I am open to all sorts of ideas. keep them coming, Travis :)

[arnieboy]

Hi everyone,

I'm Firdaus bin Aziz (meaning Firdaus son of Aziz). Just want to avoid people calling me bin Aziz and confuse me with someone you know who.

I'm from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. I've been an Ubuntu addict since sometime around Oct/Nov 2004.


I guess this is something like a War Veteran club. Probably you'll understand it after making a few hundred more post.
War Veterans we are of course! welcome to the party Firdaus :)

[arnieboy]

Nice idea Arnav! Looking forward to getting to know all the other 'mugs' better

Grant

Mittagong, Australia

Edit: Arnav, would it be a good idea to add the nicknames in brackets to the list at the top of this thread so that we can quickly see who's who? Just a thought.
well, thats a very good idea Grant. I see it happening by end of today. :)

[TravisNewman]

OK here's my idea for what this could accomplish. Obviously, no segregation of other members because of their lack of posts. I've seen people with one or two posts who are total geniuses. The point is that only after you've been in a community for a while can you really understand how things work in that community. I was a moderator for about a month before I totally understood (of course, I became a mod very shortly after the site began, so nobody was really sure). What we can do is just make a committment to help newer users understand the way things work, calmly. aysiu has it right though, things are going to get out of hand a lot quicker when community members are disgruntled and irate, but we should step in to help calm the situation, and then we always have each other to let off steam with. :)

Essentially we should strive for higher member satisfaction, pulling from our experience about how things work.

My only other suggestion would be to change the word "club." It does sound too inclusive.

[XDevHald]

My only other suggestion would be to change the word "club." It does sound too inclusive.

Agreed.

[arnieboy]

Agreed.
well come up with suggestions on the name then...

[RastaMahata]

well come up with suggestions on the name then...
heh...
clan, party, group, council...

I dont know. I think I help too, but I dont know if I qualify. Oh well. Good luck!

/me goes back to study

[XDevHald]

well come up with suggestions on the name then...
To be honest it could kind of tough. If you're looking for something like Veterans Of The Walking Coffee Mug without making it feel to others as if we're making them feel out of place and not wanted. (Some users may feel that way if not pointed to the right direction)

I'm great at making names up, but it's your call :)

[manicka]

well come up with suggestions on the name then...
Coffee Muggers ;)

[arnieboy]

Coffee Muggers ;)
haha.. why not? :)

[XDevHald]

haha.. why not? :)
Sounds good to me. :D

[arnieboy]

To be honest it could kind of tough. If you're looking for something like Veterans Of The Walking Coffee Mug without making it feel to others as if we're making them feel out of place and not wanted. (Some users may feel that way if not pointed to the right direction)

I'm great at making names up, but it's your call :)
Why is it my call? :) we are all involved remember? I merely came up with the idea!

well the deal goes this way Steve.. Its impossible to make everyone happy on this planet and some people always will have a negative perspective of things. Most organizations (both on and off the net) have a group of people at the top who make important decisions on the future of the organization. Therez always a chairperson (ubuntu geek in our case) who has the final say but more often than not he takes into account the general consensus of the senior members who have stuck around for quite some time and know how the gears work.
The not-so-senior members will always feel that they are being sidelined inspite of their contribution. What they DONT realize is that the members who are senior to them have contributed MUCH MORE than them. The best thing about this group is that its open to everyone who reaches a certain level of contribution. The doors are NEVER closed! All we are asking is that u contribute to a certain extent and then come and join us! we will welcome u with open arms.
On another note if u have noticed, I have not made the 600+ posts cut off too stringent... All we care about is whether u have been involved enough or not to join this club (and hey every group IS inclusive. If its not inclusive its not a group in the first place).

[XDevHald]

Fully agreed with that statement. You basically took my words to keep me from typing a long sentense! ;)

Great job arnie!

[macgyver2]

You know, I have to respond here, and I thank you in advance for indulging me. First off, arnieboy, I want to make sure you realize that I know your intentions are very honorable. Also, I want to make it quite clear that I'm not being petty. This isn't about me not having 600+ posts or wanting to just...play with the big kids. That being said, I still just fundamentally disagree with this idea.

Now, if I may attempt to paraphrase what I've read... The intention for this group is to first, acknowledge those who've been around and who've contributed to the forums. Nothing at all wrong there. Those in this group are immensely helpful people and the forums would not be the same without them. Second, the intention for this group is to discuss ideas that deal with how better to help those on the forum. Nothing wrong there, either, until you mention what seems like the expectation that ubuntu-geek should take into account the general consensus of those who have been around longer based on, well, the fact that they've been around longer. I disagree with that...in my mind, where better to get ideas about how to help than from those who are seeking the help.

I just don't see why this additional layer between the forums as a whole and the forum administration is needed. If someone has an idea about how to improve the forums or how to better help people, why can't it just be posted in the Site Discussion section to be discussed by all? If it's an idea that requires a decision or an action from ubuntu-geek, why can that decision or action not be made based on the input from all? The veteran status of those who have been around for awhile will still be beneficial because it's possible they will be able to provide better insight and guidance in the discussion.

Now someone may still say, "Yes, but experience counts!" And I will agree. However, experience isn't everything. I could be wrong, but from reading the posts of the veterans of the forums I get the feeling that most of them were never the posters who come on these forums having never tried Linux before, and who are here to get something working, and who need assistance because they can't understand the lingo or don't know the commands, and who just need it to work...you know? For me, personally, these forums are a really good place to be, but I don't need to be here. If I need help with something I can usually find it myself without requiring help. Okay, so maybe that sounds slightly arrogant... Anyway, in a simple situation where an idea on how to best help on the forums came down to me and someone who was here because they needed to be here to find help, it is my opinion that the input from the other person should take precedence. And because of that, once again I must say that I don't see why the way it has been (posting ideas for improvement in the Site Discussions section for all to discuss) has to be modified by introducing what appears to me to be, well, a lobbying group.

I'll close with an example from current events...the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. On one hand, you have FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency for those of you unfamiliar with my country's immense bureaucracy). FEMA is made up of "experienced" officials. Some of them have handled other emergencies; some of them were at some point in the past personally caught in emergencies as members of local governments that were hit or were members of first-responder groups. On the other hand you have the people caught in this disaster. Well, last weekend I attended church at my girlfriend's parish where the priest introduced someone who has immediate family who had, until about 10 days ago, lived in New Orleans. Now the family's house is underwater. The person was in contact with the family and some of their friends (all are safe, just displaced) and the family had told the parishoner what they themselves needed the most now...which was different than what FEMA was telling us that these people affected by the hurricane and flooding needed the most. Now, I for one would be more likely to listen to and send what the family says they themselves need over what FEMA says they need. And that's not the only time I've heard similar stories since then...I've seen several different interviews with victims who say they're not getting what they need from emergency services. Some aren't getting anything, and those that are are getting things like blankets when they already have blankets but need food, and so on.

Soo...once again, thanks for indulging me. I feel strongly about this and I felt I needed to post my...concerns, for lack of a better word at the moment.

[Buffalo Soldier]

On another note if u have noticed, I have not made the 600+ posts cut off too stringent... All we care about is whether u have been involved enough or not to join this club (and hey every group IS inclusive. If its not inclusive its not a group in the first place).I agree on not being too stringent with the 600+ posts cut off. The number of posts is only a rough guide. There are cases where people with less posts are actually a lot more helpful/involved than a person with many posts. I have to admit that I have not been as helpfull as I hope to. Most of my posts are just giving links to the guide, wiki or other threads.


War Veterans we are of course! welcome to the party Firdaus :)Thanks Arnav, for getting my name right :)

[matthew]

I could be wrong, but from reading the posts of the veterans of the forums I get the feeling that most of them were never the posters who come on these forums having never tried Linux before, and who are here to get something working, and who need assistance because they can't understand the lingo or don't know the commands, and who just need it to work...you know?
I see your point. Here's where I disagree, or at least have a different understanding of the issue. Bear in mind that I had never used Linux in any fashion prior to March 2005 and my experience with Ubuntu began in April. I did have a bit of exposure to Unix and some programming in college, but nothing since the late 1980's. So I consider myself a serious newbie--less now than 5 months ago, but I know there is a lot more to learn in front of me than there is already assimilated. I am not, however, a typical sort of user in that I love learning new things and have no real fear of delving into the unknown to try something out, just experiment, or learn for the sake of learning. Heck, I love to read tech manuals. (I know, once a geek always a geek.)

Anyway, all that to say this; I know what it is to know nothing about Linux and/or Ubuntu and be in need of help to figure out a solution. I have posted on this forum many times requesting aid for specific issues. I am also pretty resourceful and patient and therefore willing to do a lot of experimenting, google-searching and extra-curricular research simply because I want to know stuff. Most users are not that way. They want an answer and want it now, even if they don't want to take the time to figure out how to ask their questions or express their needs clearly. My hope is that this group (did we decide on Coffee Muggers? I just about cracked a rib laughing the first time I read the name...) will be a place where we can discuss things like "How do we help a user find the answers they need in the most stressless and simple way possible?" and "How can we educate the newbie in simple matters like finding howtos or knowing and sharing their system configuration when they ask a question without us sounding like the proverbial BOFH spouting off jerky replies like RTFM or STFW?"

On one hand I agree that the person asking for help may be in the best position to know what they need, but what about the moments where they haven't yet learned the best vocabulary to express that need? Just like a human infant, none of us arrive on scene with the vocabulary to adequately convey our deepest feelings and desires. Can we as a group develop strategies enabling us to be more effective in assisting the person whose first post consists of "I think the internet is broken. Can you help me fix it?"

My thought is that this group is not so much for the purposes of helping those who already know what they need and are asking for it in a clear, understandable way, but rather in helping those who know they need help to be more completely understood and have their needs met. In other words, to minimize the "You only help who you want to help" type of post by trying to come alongside the frustrated user and find a way to gently teach them to articulate their needs while at the same time making resources plentiful and easy to find so that many questions can be anticipated and needs met even more efficiently.

That, to me, sounds like a great reason for there to be a specific place for veteran-types to interact, discuss, and bounce ideas off of one another.

[benplaut]

well, most of the posts aren't from -helping-, so to speak :roll: , but i have the 600 (i think, i haven't looked lately) :)

[weekend warrior]

Originally Posted by macgyver2
I just don't see why this additional layer between the forums as a whole and the forum administration is needed. If someone has an idea about how to improve the forums or how to better help people, why can't it just be posted in the Site Discussion section to be discussed by all? If it's an idea that requires a decision or an action from ubuntu-geek, why can that decision or action not be made based on the input from all? The veteran status of those who have been around for awhile will still be beneficial because it's possible they will be able to provide better insight and guidance in the discussion.
In general lines I agree with this paragraph. When the problem of excessive stickies for example began to bother me, I simply posted my suggestions in the Ubuntuforums Site Discussion where it could be seen and discussed by everyone and anyone. In fact macgyver2 was the first in line to support my suggestions. Then Steve Myers picked it up and I suspect contacted ubuntu-geek. This worked in a matter of hours; very open, entirely efficient and got the task completed with minimal hassle.

I'm not on here everyday nor do I have time to contribute as much as others; however I've been using computers for the past quarter century starting with (like so many others) a Vic 20 (http://oldcomputers.net/vic20.html). If I'm not mistaken, that's longer than some of you here have been alive. ;-) I'm very thankful to see a handful of others from my generation here. :)

So I suppose there are two points to this. The first being that there is already in place a fine mechanism (that could be used much more) for discussing any changes and ways to improve the ubuntuforums experience and how it might help new and old users alike. For more esoterically inclined topics, general discussion threads serve their purpose. Secondly, I imagine there are and will be other "true veterans" (please excuse the conceit) who won't approach high post numbers anytime soon due to simply being at a different point in life (and even if they did, may not be interested in this sort of "club") who have ideas to contribute and could be left out of "the loop" with something like this.

In any case, they and all others are most easily connected with in regular threads. More frequent users come to know one another better by sheer interaction on these threads. It's more in keeping with the spirit of ubuntu that discussions be open to all; that all are treated on equal terms regardless of their past. Whilst some may fancy being in different circles they believe are more concurrent with their background, ubuntu really is about "coffee for everyone" and not "coffee with sugar" for some.

As a closing note; Mepislovers has specific forum sections for newbie and advanced users. It's one reason I'm here, not there. It truly irks me. In the past 25 years, there have been many a day when I've learned something valuable from someone with far less "experience" (note the quotes - experience comes from many places, not simply time spent with linux or on forums). In many cases, because they have a fresh point of view. They simply haven't considered yet what is and is not possible. They think without blinders. On the contrary of course, new users benefit most quickly from direct and extensive interaction with those farther along the path.

There is the danger that starting a project like this will eventually snowball into something more divisive, formal and permanent; like Mepislovers. In which case, I (and perhaps others) would feel the need to move on.

[arnieboy]

In general lines I agree with this paragraph. When the problem of excessive stickies for example began to bother me, I simply posted my suggestions in the Ubuntuforums Site Discussion where it could be seen and discussed by everyone and anyone. In fact macgyver2 was the first in line to support my suggestions. Then Steve Myers picked it up and I suspect contacted ubuntu-geek. This worked in a matter of hours; very open, entirely efficient and got the task completed with minimal hassle.
ww --> dont want to rain in on your parade... but please do read the following post. it was posted 20 days before urs:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=310694&postcount=114


Secondly, I imagine there are and will be other "true veterans" (please excuse the conceit) who won't approach high post numbers anytime soon due to simply being at a different point in life (and even if they did, may not be interested in this sort of "club") who have ideas to contribute and could be left out of "the loop" with something like this.
We do not necessarily need linux veterans in our group here. As I have clearly outlined before, we need ubuntuforums enthusiasts, who may or may not be linux gurus. As u might imagine, this group of ours is quite a nice mix of nerds and people with just a lot of vision or both. we want just that! if u are a nerd and want to be part of this group, contribute more on these forums. if u dont care, well too bad! :) hope u get my point.

[krusbjorn]

I'm not for or against this "group". I really have no opinion at all. But i'm afraid that, no matter how much you try to point out that it isnt some sort en elitist group, it will look bad i many people's eyes. That's a downside you have to consider.

[weekend warrior]

With respect, my suggestions actually got the necessary attention, probably because they were posted in a more appropriate forum (I did mention the wisdom of having two separate places for suggestions); but that's entirely beside the point.


"We do not necessarily need linux veterans in our group here.".....
"if u are a nerd and want to be part of this group, contribute more on these forums"....
"if u dont care, well too bad!".....
Precisely sentiments I think would be best avoided as they create a feeling of being unwelcome, foment division, and rankle against the ubuntu spirit.

If a project like this continues along these lines then I fear it is time for me and those of my ilk to find other pastures.

[tseliot]

P.S.: Hey guys, please dont bring negative sentiment into this thread by saying things like "whats the use of this and U are trying to be separatist".
NO, we are not trying to form an elite clique or sumthin! We are just getting to know our senior (senior in terms of participation) members better and this might help discuss issues and further the cause of linux and ubuntu to the world.
I was hesitant at first but after I read this I changed my mind and I'm sure I'd like to join the group.
You can count on me.

Alberto
I'm from Lecce (Italy)

[XDevHald]

I was hesitant at first but after I read this I changed my mind and I'm sure I'd like to join the group.

Thank you for doing just that, I think a few members here are a bit confused, but time will tell. I am staying in this group to see that it does stand it's ground. No one will judge a book according to it's cover and that is exactly what is happening here.

We're not forcing people to join, it is an act out of your own willing. Please understand that this is a senior group (not of old people) to bring other senior ubuntu members together and really find out what changes could be made and also help the members who have not been here for that long at all and are really getting into the dirt to know what's below it.

Please join because you want to help, not so you can be noticed because of being in a group.

If you judge, you will never know, if you never know, you will never find.

[tseliot]

Please join because you want to help, not so you can be noticed because of being in a group.

If you judge, you will never know, if you never know, you will never find.
That's the spirit! I completely agree with you. (and BTW I'm not used to show off in everyday life too :) )

[krusbjorn]

No one will judge a book according to it's cover and that is exactly what is happening here.

Isnt that more or less part of the human nature - to judge the book according to its cover? I'm not saying that i do (in this particular case). Again, i dont mind this group at all, I'm just saying that we can be sure that a lot of people will judge it by its cover, and you have to include that into your consideration.

[Stormy Eyes]

That's a downside you have to consider.

I disagree. Perception is not reality, and I for one am not in the habit of considering the opinions of strangers.

Let the ignorant think that this Benevolent Brotherhood of the Ambulant Coffee Mug is elitist, while we prove otherwise by our actions. I thought that this was just a way for those who cared to know who the other longtimers were. If I cared to start such a group myself, I would have been more interested in people who've been here at least a year.

This group is not elitist. I am, but you're making a mistake if you think I represent anybody but myself. :grin:

[XDevHald]

Agreed with your statement, but the wording was done wrong and corrected.


No one should be judging a book by it's cover and that is exactly what is happening here.

Thank you for the statement and corrections were made as they should've been before.

On that note, yes people do, and it's part of nature, I have caught myself doing that at times, but have forced myself to learn what exactly it is before really judging it. It's in a persons best interest to do just that before judging, you'll only mis-lead yourself if you don't

[Buffalo Soldier]

I just don't see why this additional layer between the forums as a whole and the forum administration is needed. If someone has an idea about how to improve the forums or how to better help people, why can't it just be posted in the Site Discussion section to be discussed by all?

Is Arnav or anyone here saying it can't? I don't think so. Or am I missing something?

I don't think its the right comparison between FEMA <-> Coffee Muggers. FEMA is a large organisation that is not in touch with the reality. While most Coffee Muggers have had their hands dirty since the very beginning of the forum.

All the Coffee Muggers wants are just a place to share "war" stories/scars and to talk to with someone who have gone thru the same experience. I know some may not be so stressed helping people in here, and I am happy for these resilient people. But some just need to a place to hang out with their veteran buddies.

[XDevHald]

Is Arnav or anyone here saying it can't? I don't think so. Or am I missing something?

I don't think its the right comparison between FEMA <-> Coffee Muggers. FEMA is a large organisation that is not in touch with the reality. While most Coffee Muggers have had their hands dirty since the very beginning of the forum.

All the Coffee Muggers wants are just a place to share "war" stories/scars and to talk to with someone who have gone thru the same experience. I know some may not be so stressed helping people in here, and I am happy for these resilient people. But some just need to a place to hang out with their veteran buddies.
Well said Buffalo Soldier!

Couldn't have said it better myself :D nd his statement is true.

[macgyver2]

Is Arnav or anyone here saying it can't? I don't think so. Or am I missing something?
No, you're not. However, the way I see it is that if things are going to be discussed in the open anyway, then why need the group...which you answered below, and some others also said the same, but which I don't think covers it all.


I don't think its the right comparison between FEMA <-> Coffee Muggers. FEMA is a large organisation that is not in touch with the reality. While most Coffee Muggers have had their hands dirty since the very beginning of the forum.
You're right, it's not a perfect comparison. And I see there are those in the group who started out as someone on the receiving end of help on these forums (matthew, for one, who wrote an excellent response). Yet I maintain it's not a completely off-base comparison either.


All the Coffee Muggers wants are just a place to share "war" stories/scars and to talk to with someone who have gone thru the same experience. I know some may not be so stressed helping people in here, and I am happy for these resilient people. But some just need to a place to hang out with their veteran buddies.
This goes back to the first thing you said (in this last post). In fact, I wasn't planning on responding to this thread anymore after some others mentioned the idea of a veterans group...until I read

Most organizations (both on and off the net) have a group of people at the top who make important decisions on the future of the organization. Therez always a chairperson (ubuntu geek in our case) who has the final say but more often than not he takes into account the general consensus of the senior members who have stuck around for quite some time and know how the gears work.
That's what made me want to respond again. What that says, to me, is that the group is more than just wanting to hang out and discuss "war" stories.

I want to make clear, though, that my intention is not to stand in the way of anyone joining your group if they want. I just don't like the idea and felt I should be able to say that and to say why. Also, from the responses I must say that I think that this thread is a very positive reflection of the forums overall in that I was able to voice my opinion--which is clearly in the minority--and I still received good, civilized responses. I don't think that would have happened on most other forums out there.

Now then, I think I'm off to form my own group...The Committee for the Oversight of the Coffee Muggers. :wink::)

[zenwhen]

Celebrating your post count is the most silly thing you can do on a forum.

That number is not an indication that you have done some noble thing. One could easily obtain that number by doing little more than posting "I agree." in every thread in the community chat forum.

If you have helped a lot of people, your reward should be knowing you have done a good thing. You should not be put on a pedestal because you hit the "submit reply" button the most. I am glad there are people here who have time to help people all the time. I wish I had that kind of time, and would post a lot more if I had it. Even if I had 1,000,000 posts, you wouldn't see me begging someone to pay attention to me for the wonderful space I have used in the forums database.

[macgyver2]

On one hand I agree that the person asking for help may be in the best position to know what they need, but what about the moments where they haven't yet learned the best vocabulary to express that need? Just like a human infant, none of us arrive on scene with the vocabulary to adequately convey our deepest feelings and desires. Can we as a group develop strategies enabling us to be more effective in assisting the person whose first post consists of "I think the internet is broken. Can you help me fix it?"

My thought is that this group is not so much for the purposes of helping those who already know what they need and are asking for it in a clear, understandable way, but rather in helping those who know they need help to be more completely understood and have their needs met. In other words, to minimize the "You only help who you want to help" type of post by trying to come alongside the frustrated user and find a way to gently teach them to articulate their needs while at the same time making resources plentiful and easy to find so that many questions can be anticipated and needs met even more efficiently.
The point about not knowing the vocabulary is an excellent one. I hadn't thought about that aspect. I don't feel that it changes my belief that a group to discuss things outside of the Site Discussion section isn't needed...but thanks for pointing it out and for such a well thought out response.

[aysiu]

No, you're not. However, the way I see it is that if things are going to be discussed in the open anyway, then why need the group...which you answered below, and some others also said the same, but which I don't think covers it all. I'm not sure how I feel about the club, but I have to say I disagree with this false dichotomy. You're saying things that are open might as well not exist. Why do we have an "absolute beginners" forum, then? Why do we have a Kubuntu forum? Those are open, too, but they need existence because they target an audience.

If we went by your logic, there wouldn't even be the need for specific forums in Ubuntu Forums, or even a Ubuntu Forums. Why not have a Linux forums? Why not just have a generic forum that discusses world events, sewing, literature, restaurants, sex, gaming, and ice hockey? People break things down because they want focus.

You're not excluded from the Kubuntu forums just because you use Ubuntu. You're not excluded from Absolute Beginners if you're an expert, and I think what arnieboy is saying is that you won't be excluded from Coffee Mug if you have under 600 posts.

I totally agree that the word "club" and the mere mention of a minimum (if not strictly enforced) post count could give people the wrong impression, but arguing that a special section has no right to exist if it's open flies in the face of the Ubuntu forums' very existence.

[macgyver2]

No, you're not. However, the way I see it is that if things are going to be discussed in the open anyway, then why need the group...which you answered below, and some others also said the same, but which I don't think covers it all.
I'm not sure how I feel about the club, but I have to say I disagree with this false dichotomy. You're saying things that are open might as well not exist. Why do we have an "absolute beginners" forum, then? Why do we have a Kubuntu forum? Those are open, too, but they need existence because they target an audience.
Okay, I can see how I said it very poorly. Let me try again. If the discussion of how to improve the forums is going to be open to all, then why do we need the group when we already have a place that exists to discuss how to improve the forums that is open to all...namely the Site Discussion section.

[tseliot]

Okay, I can see how I said it very poorly. Let me try again. If the discussion of how to improve the forums is going to be open to all, then why do we need the group when we already have a place that exists to discuss how to improve the forums that is open to all...namely the Site Discussion section.
C'mon there will be no "side effects" to this new thing, only benefits to the forum could come from a coordination and cooperation between more experienced or more helpful(etc.) members. There will be no apartheid if this is what worries you :)

[endy]

C'mon there will be no "side effects" to this new thing, only benefits to the forum could come from a coordination and cooperation between more experienced or more helpful(etc.) members. There will be no apartheid if this is what worries you :)

The first thing a club does is exclude all non members.

[arnieboy]

Benevolent Brotherhood of the Ambulant Coffee Mug
will add a "s" in the end and thats it!
Benevolent Brotherhood of the Ambulant Coffee Mugs Thats what we will be called from now on!!! Way to go Matthew!

[arnieboy]

I was hesitant at first but after I read this I changed my mind and I'm sure I'd like to join the group.
You can count on me.

Alberto
I'm from Lecce (Italy)
welcome to u too Alberto :)

[tseliot]

The first thing a club does is exclude all non members.
It's just a name. And it doesn't have the power to change anything (as Ubuntu Geek pointed out) but helping other people. Would this be that terrible?

[endy]

Why not just just view people's profile? Or if you want to share more about yourself then use the blogs. Surely we should encourage people to use the existing features rather then re-inventing the wheel :)

[arnieboy]

Why not just just view people's profile? Or if you want to share more about yourself then use the blogs. Surely we should encourage people to use the existing features rather then re-inventing the wheel :)
we encourage u to help beginners much more than u have done till now. U shd see the number of beginners and intermediate users asking questions on the support forums. Instead of going on and on with the cribbing, u shd do what we have been doing for so many months! help people solve problems and love ubuntu! ask questions! gain more knowledge and respect those who have contributed more than u have and also learn from them. :)

[thin_king]

Wow, too sad. I had a good impression here until I read this. I just came from Debian. This sounds a lot like the saaaame ol crap from over there. Damn I thought this was supposed to be different?!? :confused: Real disappointed. :-( So much for Ubuntu. Guess I'll keep looking. Too bad.

[sophtpaw]

Celebrating your post count is the most silly thing you can do on a forum.

That number is not an indication that you have done some noble thing. One could easily obtain that number by doing little more than posting "I agree." in every thread in the community chat forum.

If you have helped a lot of people, your reward should be knowing you have done a good thing. You should not be put on a pedestal because you hit the "submit reply" button the most. I am glad there are people here who have time to help people all the time. I wish I had that kind of time, and would post a lot more if I had it. Even if I had 1,000,000 posts, you wouldn't see me begging someone to pay attention to me for the wonderful space I have used in the forums database.


Hear hear!

i totally agree. But we are all free to do as pleases and i also welcome 'veterans' for want of a better word coming together to discuss how things can be improved. But as Macgiver has pointed out a forum for that exists already, which makes this, however much i appreciate the intention, somewhat redundant it seems.

But hey, lets all use what Edward Bono calls PO thinking and get out of the either/or polarization of viewing and discussing/ approaching life. Any and every avenue of improvement is good, and should be seen as a possible addition to rather than distraction from anything else on these forums designed to help improve.

Could, while all you veterans get together, look at what can be done to imrove response and follow through on threads in beginners forum. As a noob i have put endless posts with real questions which simply don't get responded too. Otherwise i may get a suggestion, as for example the recent suggestion to download vlc, without any follow through with subsequent problems making it work. If this happens to me, then i imagine that represents a percentage of other users too. It can be quite frustrating. Of course if it is just me, then just ignore. O:) I realise i may have rubbed some people the wrong way and perhaps that explains the silence.

But if it is as Aysiu has said that if there is no response it could be taken to mean that no one has the answer and most importantly too, that everyone here is voluntarily giving their free time, then i accept that and have presumed that to be the real reason for a lack of response and follow through

so, idon't complain, try to graciously receive what help i do get and make do with what i have while exploring other avenues of solutions to my Ubuntu problems.

But if this is aobut seriously looking at how things can be improved then please accept this topic as a point of departure in discussions, while patting yourselves on the back for an awesome overall job too

My name is conrad by the way and i'm in london. But i will never quailify to join this club. Even if i had 600+ posts they would all have been questions (hence the post count is irrelevant as an indicator as has previously mentioned, of ubuntu status)
I wish i had the knowledge some of you have, but i know i'm just not built that way. From a functional point of view i probably should be with xp (well..in a way if you know what i mean) The reason i use Linux is for ideological and philosophical principles. I would also like to be more acquainted with my computer and who knows maybe i am eventually learning something. We'll see...

If i have cause any offence please forgive me,

best wishes,

conrad

[endy]

we encourage u to help beginners much more than u have done till now.
Well I'm sorry I don't meet your expectations. Actually, no, I'm not. I do what I can.


U shd see the number of beginners and intermediate users asking questions on the support forums. Instead of going on and on with the cribbing, u shd do what we have been doing for so many months! help people solve problems and love ubuntu!
I help when and where I can, I expect nothing more from anyone else. Please don't try to tell to me what I should or shouldn't be doing in my spare time and don't presume to tell me how I should feel, thank you very much. We don't all live to serve others.


ask questions! gain more knowledge and respect those who have contributed more than u have and also learn from them. :)
Are you presuming I don't ask questions or strive to gain more knowledge? I don't think you know me like you think you do. Are you also suggesting I should blindly respect people who have a higher post count? I choose to prefer quality not quantity and post count doesn't necessarily mean someone has contirbuted more to a community. If that were the case spammers would be revered, which is ridiculous.

[manicka]

will add a "s" in the end and thats it!
Benevolent Brotherhood of the Ambulant Coffee Mugs Thats what we will be called from now on!!! Way to go Matthew!
...and will any women want to belong to a brotherhood?

[TravisNewman]

just for the record, I really don't like that name ;)

endy, I think you've misinterpreted what arnie said.

[tseliot]

Well I'm sorry I don't meet your expectations. Actually, no, I'm not. I do what I can.


I help when and where I can, I expect nothing more from anyone else. Please don't try to tell to me what I should or shouldn't be doing in my spare time and don't presume to tell me how I should feel, thank you very much. We don't all live to serve others.


Are you presuming I don't ask questions or strive to gain more knowledge? I don't think you know me like you think you do. Are you also suggesting I should blindly respect people who have a higher post count? I choose to prefer quality not quantity and post count doesn't necessarily mean someone has contirbuted more to a community. If that were the case spammers would be revered, which is ridiculous.
Ok, there's no need to have an argue or something. The point is that nobody is being forced to join the group and all the ones who disagree with its existence or who just don't want to join don't have to feel discriminated.

I repeat: this group doesn't offer any advantage or priviledge. We are NOT the best because we belong to this group. We only want to help other users. Please don't feel threatened by such an initiative.

The only "power" we can have is the will to help (we are not the only ones to have this though).

I hope you understand my point.

[krusbjorn]

I repeat: this group doesn't offer any advantage or priviledge. We are NOT the best because we belong to this group. We only want to help other users. Please don't feel threatened by such an initiative.

There are a lot of us wanting to help other users. I'm one, spending hours a day answering what questions i can. I've been around for almost a month longer than arnieboy, for example (just an example, not trying to be rude).

So what's up with the 600+ post thingie, if you only want to help others? I do to, but just because i dont post 10 posts a day in Community Chat threads like the Otaku thread, I'm not welcome into the "group"?

Am i the only one thinking this "veteran" word has gotten the wrong meaning, when we start speaking in terms of number of posts?

[tseliot]

There are a lot of us wanting to help other users. I'm one, spending hours a day answering what questions i can. I've been around for almost a month longer than arnieboy, for example (just an example, not trying to be rude).

So what's up with the 600+ post thingie, if you only want to help others? I do to, but just because i dont post 10 posts a day in Community Chat threads like the Otaku thread, I'm not welcome into the "group"?

Am i the only one thinking this "veteran" word has gotten the wrong meaning, when we start speaking in terms of number of posts?
I'm sure you're invited as well. As you can notice not all the members of this group have 600+ posts (I don't)

[krusbjorn]

Well, i did a nice try back at page 3 of the thread, but since all the people posting both before and after me were able to join the group, i assumed that my 190 post count wasnt wanted.

[Lovechild]

oh oh.. elitist popularity contest..

[tseliot]

For example mike998 has 247 posts which is lower than 600 :razz:
Really, I think the will (and the capability) to help other people is the 1st requirement, Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[tseliot]

oh oh.. elitist popularity contest..
Please, read the entire Thread and all the posts before judging this initiative.

[benplaut]

will add a "s" in the end and thats it!
Benevolent Brotherhood of the Ambulant Coffee Mugs Thats what we will be called from now on!!! Way to go Matthew!

for those who don't know,

--
Benevolent
be·nev·o·lent
1. Characterized by or suggestive of doing good.
2. Of, concerned with, or organized for the benefit of charity.
--

therefore, being in this group isn't some elitist group of higher beings, it's simply more responsability!

for those who are Jewish, it's along the same lines as the "chosen people" argument...

Add me in?

[krusbjorn]

For example mike998 has 247 posts which is lower than 600 :razz:
Really, I think the will (and the capability) to help other people is the 1st requirement, Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, if thats the case, and my post was lost among the masses, I apoligise for being cynical.

[arnieboy]

For example mike998 has 247 posts which is lower than 600 :razz:
Really, I think the will (and the capability) to help other people is the 1st requirement, Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
u are bang on target Alberto. Too bad some people love to argue w/o understanding the ground realities.

[arnieboy]

Well, if thats the case, and my post was lost among the masses, I apoligise for being cynical.
apologies accepted.. I need a name though.

[arnieboy]

for those who don't know,

--
Benevolent
be·nev·o·lent
1. Characterized by or suggestive of doing good.
2. Of, concerned with, or organized for the benefit of charity.
--

therefore, being in this group isn't some elitist group of higher beings, it's simply more responsability!

for those who are Jewish, it's along the same lines as the "chosen people" argument...

Add me in?
u are in buddy :)

[krusbjorn]

apologies accepted.. I need a name though.

It's still on page three in this thread, as i stated above ;)

[tseliot]

Arnav maybe we should make it even clearer in the thread. In this way we won't be misunderstood any more.

[arnieboy]

It's still on page three in this thread, as i stated above ;)
good. point me to it while I get some more important work done.

[arnieboy]

Arnav maybe we should make it even clearer in the thread. In this way we won't be misunderstood any more.
yes we are working on that Alberto. Soon enough we should come up with a good manifesto. On the same note, why dont the present members suggest some points which we should include in this manifesto? This would almost be like a brainstorming session. Come up with whatever u can think of that this group should discuss and deliver on.
All group members (and also positive enthusiasts) are invited.

[Lovechild]

Please, read the entire Thread and all the posts before judging this initiative.

It just so happens I did..

[zenrox]

i am a walking coffee mug i support what i can when i can
i live true to the ubuntu code
i am a walking coffee mug
and please add me
michael aka Zenrox on the chat rooms #ubuntuforums

[poofyhairguy]

Nothing wrong there, either, until you mention what seems like the expectation that ubuntu-geek should take into account the general consensus of those who have been around longer based on, well, the fact that they've been around longer. I disagree with that...in my mind, where better to get ideas about how to help than from those who are seeking the help.

Don't worry about that. Ubuntu-geek changes things only when the moderators and him agree on it.



I just don't see why this additional layer between the forums as a whole and the forum administration is needed. If someone has an idea about how to improve the forums or how to better help people, why can't it just be posted in the Site Discussion section to be discussed by all? If it's an idea that requires a decision or an action from ubuntu-geek, why can that decision or action not be made based on the input from all? The veteran status of those who have been around for awhile will still be beneficial because it's possible they will be able to provide better insight and guidance in the discussion.

I want the group to talk about more than the forums. Such as Linux in general, the entire Ubuntu community, life and ice cream.

[Stormy Eyes]

...and will any women want to belong to a brotherhood?

Lilith's heart-shaped ****... What word would you have preferred, eh? On second thought; don't bother answering; I don't care. The next person who nitpicks my posts for "sexist" use of male words in a gender-neutral context is going to be first in line to kiss my fat American capitalist pigdog ****.

[matthew]

Lilith's heart-shaped ****... What word would you have preferred, eh? On second thought; don't bother answering; I don't care. The next person who nitpicks my posts for "sexist" use of male words in a gender-neutral context is going to be first in line to kiss my fat American capitalist pigdog ****.
After I finished laughing I decided to support you by adding that in the English language the masculine plural is generally assumed to be inclusive of both genders and it is only in the last 30 years or so that this has even become an issue. Until the linguists come up with a way to modify the entire language that is acceptable to both traditionalists as well as the new thought-police and the politically correct I'm afraid that we would do best to begin reading most things with the assumption that the writer is not intending to offend or exclude.

[TravisNewman]

ok I've spoken with arnieboy and we decided to lock this thread until a more concrete and concise set of goals, etc, can be made. So many people misunderstood the point (and this comes from people who agreed and from people who disagreed) so most of the discussion going on here is getting nothing accomplished.