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View Full Version : I convereted to Ubuntu to Hack



tyggna1
December 11th, 2007, 05:43 AM
The honest reason: I wanted to hack into my WEP connection--just to see how secure I really was.
*Note: Everything I do for hacking is strictly white-hat (http://xkcd.com/291/)

I got involved with hackthissite.org while I was in windows, and got to a point where windows could no longer do what I wanted my OS to do. I found myself --as a hacker--only slightly better than an invalid in a windows environment. As a result, I have learned the Unix command line, basic perl programing, and am starting to learn PHP. I got my local web server up and running tonight (something I've wanted since I was 12, but just couldn't figure it out in windows).

All and all, I've just liked the OS so much that I've stuck with it--all hacking aside. What I want to know is: How many converted to Ubuntu to hack or learn to hack? Am I the only one?

-grubby
December 11th, 2007, 05:47 AM
I've never seen anyone else that said they went to ubuntu to test there wireless connection:confused:. but what do I know, I don't have a wireless connection

tyggna1
December 11th, 2007, 06:04 AM
yeah, aircrack-ng lets you analyze packets that you sniffed out of the air. Takes about 5 minutes to hack WEP--but you can't crack WPA. I read about it on a howto from hackthissite, and realized that about 70% of their howtos were for *nix operating system.

It's kinda cool to be able to probe your own network and test your security--also, it's nice to have the source code available for the tools that you use. Another advantage is that the Linux community (compared to commercial software) won't label you as an outlaw or rebel if you actually want to learn about security and networking--heck, they'll even help you acquire the basic skills you need to start--as long as you don't do anything malicious.

Just try asking about how to monitor a network hub, or edit the coding on a switch and you can probably find someone on these forums who knows how to do it.

p_quarles
December 11th, 2007, 06:08 AM
I'm sure it's possible to break into a WEP connection with a Windows-based utility, but that's neither here nor there.

I do a few things that could be called white hat hacking, mainly to keep my server secure. But if I can expand "hacking" to the broader sense (making this machine work how I want it to), then, yes, that's why I switched to Linux. Windows gets the job done just fine in most cases, but I appreciate the ability to get down into the gears and change things. With Windows that can be anywhere from more difficult (i.e., no equivalent to aliases in .bashrc) to impossible (i.e., compiling a customized kernel).

So, if that counts as hacking, then yes, that's why I switched.

FuturePilot
December 11th, 2007, 06:19 AM
I'm sure it's possible to break into a WEP connection with a Windows-based utility, but that's neither here nor there.

I do a few things that could be called white hat hacking, mainly to keep my server secure. But if I can expand "hacking" to the broader sense (making this machine work how I want it to), then, yes, that's why I switched to Linux. Windows gets the job done just fine in most cases, but I appreciate the ability to get down into the gears and change things. With Windows that can be anywhere from more difficult (i.e., no equivalent to aliases in .bashrc) to impossible (i.e., compiling a customized kernel).

So, if that counts as hacking, then yes, that's why I switched.

There were a number of reasons I switched but that was one of them. Hacking in the sense of getting something to work, or work better. Just the other day I was thinking about this and realized how much control Linux gives you over everything. You can make it act differently by passing the kernel certain parameters at boot, how customizable everything is etc. It's truly amazing.

Kingsley
December 11th, 2007, 06:20 AM
I've done some mean things through the easy networking on Ubuntu. I'm not sure it can even be considered hacking. I didn't install Ubuntu to learn how to hack though.

n3tfury
December 11th, 2007, 12:30 PM
I'm sure it's possible to break into a WEP connection with a Windows-based utility, but that's neither here nor there.



you sure can. OSX too. linux does offer more utilities for sniffing/cracking, but you can get the same results with other OS's.

PriceChild
December 11th, 2007, 01:03 PM
First: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_definition_controversy

Second: Its harder to crack networks with windows because the drivers are normally closed, so hard to inject packets in etc. You get the same problem with aircrack on linux with certain drivers.

Third, WPA is "easily" cracked.

Finally Hacking/(Cracking) is *NOT* cool. You don't fool anyone saying its on your own home network that you own and you don't get brownie points.

n3tfury
December 11th, 2007, 01:30 PM
Finally Hacking/(Cracking) is *NOT* cool. You don't fool anyone saying its on your own home network that you own and you don't get brownie points.

actually, my job involves network / info security and i HAVE done intrusion on my own network. nobody said anything about it being cool. but, i would say that most forum users that "hack" are script kiddies at best.

Xbehave
December 11th, 2007, 01:49 PM
Linux like everything useful is dual use
nuclear power/nukes
biomedical research/weapons

I think linus said (while flaming something ofc (thing it was GPL3 this time))

If you're a mad scientist, you can use GPLv2'd software for your evil plans to take over the world ("Sharks with lasers on their heads!!"), and the GPLv2 just says that you have to give source code back. And that's OK by me. I like sharks with lasers.


Linux has the best tools for securing a system*, so it also has the best tools for breaking this security.

*bsd may have better tools but who uses them :P

PriceChild
December 11th, 2007, 01:56 PM
actually, my job involves network / info security and i HAVE done intrusion on my own network.Probably why I wasn't meaning to direct it at you.

PartisanEntity
December 11th, 2007, 01:58 PM
I keep seeing the word 'hacking' being used in reference to 'modifying' or 'fixing' something. What happened to the good old word 'customising'? Call me old fashioned, but in my opinion 'hacking' should be reserved for 'intrusion' into computers or networks.

Getting something to work on your computer, or modifying how something works is not 'hacking', the terminology doesn't make sense (to me) and is annoyingly illogical (to me).

My TV remote was not working the other day, so I hacked it and replaced the battery, now it's working again. Make sense to you?

I hacked my computer today and changed the wallpaper image, font colours as well as added an animated start image. Sound right?

Why not use proper English words like modify, solve, fix, customise, tailor etc..

Not to me :)

n3tfury
December 11th, 2007, 02:04 PM
Probably why I wasn't meaning to direct it at you.

i know, it was more of a generalization, and quite true.

n3tfury
December 11th, 2007, 02:05 PM
I keep seeing the word 'hacking' being used in reference to 'modifying' or 'fixing' something. What happened to the good old word 'customising'? Call me old fashioned, but in my opinion 'hacking' should be reserved for 'intrusion' into computers or networks.

Getting something to work on your computer, or modifying how something works is not 'hacking', the terminology doesn't make sense (to me) and is annoyingly illogical (to me).

My TV remote was not working the other day, so I hacked it and replaced the battery, now it's working again. Make sense to you?

I hacked my computer today and changed the wallpaper image, font colours as well as added an animated start image. Sound right?

Why not use proper English words like modify, solve, fix, customise, tailor etc..

Not to me :)

agree. it's very overused and more often than not used in the wrong context. even more annoying are people that say something like "i hacked together a.."

ugh.

matthew
December 11th, 2007, 02:08 PM
I converted to Ubuntu because I like having the freedom to make whatever customizations (aka cool hacks :) ) I want to make. I got tired of being told what I could and couldn't do with my hardware.

Yeah, I run Linux on my wireless access point (Linksys WRT54G v 1.0 running dd-wrt (http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page)) for exactly the same reason.

hacking |= cracking, but the linguistic confusion is annoying...maybe PE is right and we just need to conform to common usage, even if it is wrong. That is how languages evolve, isn't it? (living ones anyway)

tyggna1
December 11th, 2007, 11:58 PM
I've best heard hacking described as:

Getting a computer or system to do something that it wasn't designed or intended to do, or otherwise manipulating a system, through unconventional or unsanctioned methods to do what you want it to do.

WEP was designed to keep people off a wireless network--therefore, recovering a passkey is hacking, because it goes against what WEP was designed for.

And you can say whatever you want about me, PriceChild--my conscience is clean.

Take Steve Woznaik, for example.
"Hacker used to have two meanings--before it meant breaking into computers or something. It meant: guys who sit all night long on any piece of borrowed equipment they could get their hands on and trying to get a program so perfect that they would just sit there and spend hours and hours doing it." --Discover Channel Special, "The History of Hacking"

He was a hacker--and thanks to his "hacking" we had the PC revolution. When he was in the home-brew club, he came up with the fundamentals of a computer monitor. He designed the first apple computers. That's the kind of hacking I'm interested in.

Sure, javascript injection is fun and all that--but the only practical uses for it are either malicious, or to keep your own site from falling victim to it.

Yeah, "customization" is an appropriate for a lot of what I do in Linux--but when you start editing code, or changing environment variables, you are changing what the program was designed to do, and can, by most definitions, be considered hacking.

Scarath
December 12th, 2007, 12:23 AM
If u want to test ur networks why not use BackTrack?


http://www.remote-exploit.org/backtrack.html

tyggna1
December 12th, 2007, 01:15 AM
If u want to test ur networks why not use BackTrack?


http://www.remote-exploit.org/backtrack.html

sweet! thanks!

inversekinetix
December 12th, 2007, 02:29 AM
I keep seeing the word 'hacking' being used in reference to 'modifying' or 'fixing' something. What happened to the good old word 'customising'? Call me old fashioned, but in my opinion 'hacking' should be reserved for 'intrusion' into computers or networks.

Getting something to work on your computer, or modifying how something works is not 'hacking', the terminology doesn't make sense (to me) and is annoyingly illogical (to me).

My TV remote was not working the other day, so I hacked it and replaced the battery, now it's working again. Make sense to you?

I hacked my computer today and changed the wallpaper image, font colours as well as added an animated start image. Sound right?

Why not use proper English words like modify, solve, fix, customise, tailor etc..

Not to me :)



English is a beautiful language, its many varieties and ability to be customized makes it a wonderful instrument for communication. Unfortunately we use a phonetic alphabet which makes the meaning of words rely on the context they are in, if we don't know the intended meaning in a given context it is all too easy to imbue it with the wrong meaning. In Japanese, for example, there isn't this problem, whilst there are many many homophones the meaning is given by the character not the sound (of course this applies only to the written word). I think you misused the word 'hack' in your examples, you could use the word perfectly well in any of your examples if you modify/hack the grammar.

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Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
hack1 /hæk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hak] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object) 1. to cut, notch, slice, chop, or sever (something) with or as with heavy, irregular blows (often fol. by up or down): to hack meat; to hack down trees.
2. to break up the surface of (the ground).
3. to clear (a road, path, etc.) by cutting away vines, trees, brush, or the like: They hacked a trail through the jungle.
4. to damage or injure by crude, harsh, or insensitive treatment; mutilate; mangle: The editor hacked the story to bits.
5. to reduce or cut ruthlessly; trim: The Senate hacked the budget severely before returning it to the House.
6. Slang. to deal or cope with; handle: He can't hack all this commuting.
7. Computers. to devise or modify (a computer program), usually skillfully.
8. Basketball. to strike the arm of (an opposing ball handler): He got a penalty for hacking the shooter.
9. British. to kick or kick at the shins of (an opposing player) in Rugby football.
10. South Midland and Southern U.S. to embarrass, annoy, or disconcert.
–verb (used without object) 11. to make rough cuts or notches; deal cutting blows.
12. to cough harshly, usually in short and repeated spasms.
13. Tennis. a. to take a poor, ineffective, or awkward swing at the ball.
b. to play tennis at a mediocre level.

14. British. to kick or kick at an opponent's shins in Rugby football.
–noun 15. a cut, gash, or notch.
16. a tool, as an ax, hoe, or pick, for hacking.
17. an act or instance of hacking; a cutting blow.
18. a short, rasping dry cough.
19. a hesitation in speech.
20. Curling. an indentation made in the ice at the foot score, for supporting the foot in delivering the stone.
21. British. a gash in the skin produced by a kick, as in Rugby football.
—Verb phrase22. hack around, Slang. to pass the time idly; indulge in idle talk.
—Idiom23. hack it, Slang. to handle or cope with a situation or an assignment adequately and calmly: The new recruit just can't hack it.


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[Origin: 1150–1200; ME hacken; cf. OE tōhaccian to hack to pieces; c. D hakken, G hacken]


—Synonyms 1. mangle, haggle. See cut.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
hack2 /hæk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hak] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person, as an artist or writer, who exploits, for money, his or her creative ability or training in the production of dull, unimaginative, and trite work; one who produces banal and mediocre work in the hope of gaining commercial success in the arts: As a painter, he was little more than a hack.
2. a professional who renounces or surrenders individual independence, integrity, belief, etc., in return for money or other reward in the performance of a task normally thought of as involving a strong personal commitment: a political hack.
3. a writer who works on the staff of a publisher at a dull or routine task; someone who works as a literary drudge: He was one among the many hacks on Grub Street.
4. British. a. a horse kept for common hire or adapted for general work, esp. ordinary riding.
b. a saddle horse used for transportation, rather than for show, hunting, or the like.

5. an old or worn-out horse; jade.
6. a coach or carriage kept for hire; hackney.
7. Informal. a. a taxi.
b. Also, hackie. a cabdriver.

8. Slang. a prison guard.
–verb (used with object) 9. to make a hack of; let out for hire.
10. to make trite or stale by frequent use; hackney.
–verb (used without object) 11. Informal. to drive a taxi.
12. to ride or drive on the road at an ordinary pace, as distinguished from cross-country riding or racing.
13. British. to rent a horse, esp. by the hour.
–adjective 14. hired as a hack; of a hired sort: a hack writer; hack work.
15. hackneyed; trite; banal: hack writing.


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[Origin: 1680–90; short for hackney]


—Synonyms 2. mercenary. 3. scribbler. 9. lease, rent.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
hack3 /hæk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hak] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a rack for drying food, as fish.
2. a rack for holding fodder for livestock.
3. a low pile of unburnt bricks in the course of drying.
–verb (used with object) 4. to place (something) on a hack, as for drying or feeding.
5. Falconry. to train (a young hawk) by letting it fly freely and feeding it at a hack board or a hack house.
—Idiom6. at hack, Falconry. (of a young hawk) being trained to fly freely but to return to a hack house or hack board for food rather than to pursue quarry.


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[Origin: 1565–75; var. of hatch2]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This hack 1 (hāk) Pronunciation Key
v. hacked, hack·ing, hacks

v. tr.

To cut or chop with repeated and irregular blows: hacked down the saplings.
To break up the surface of (soil).

Informal To alter (a computer program): hacked her text editor to read HTML.
To gain access to (a computer file or network) illegally or without authorization: hacked the firm's personnel database.
Slang To cut or mutilate as if by hacking: hacked millions off the budget.
Slang To cope with successfully; manage: couldn't hack a second job.

v. intr.

To chop or cut something by hacking.
Informal
To write or refine computer programs skillfully.
To use one's skill in computer programming to gain illegal or unauthorized access to a file or network: hacked into the company's intranet.
To cough roughly or harshly.

n.
A rough, irregular cut made by hacking.
A tool, such as a hoe, used for hacking.
A blow made by hacking.
A rough, dry cough.


[Middle English hakken, from Old English -haccian; see keg- in Indo-European roots. V., intr., sense 2, back-formation from hacker1.]

hack'a·ble adj.

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This hack 2 (hāk) Pronunciation Key
n.
A horse used for riding or driving; a hackney.
A worn-out horse for hire; a jade.

One who undertakes unpleasant or distasteful tasks for money or reward; a hireling.
A writer hired to produce routine or commercial writing.
A taxicab.
See hackie.
A carriage or hackney for hire.
Informal
A taxicab.
See hackie.

v. hacked, hack·ing, hacks

v. tr.

To let out (a horse) for hire.
To make banal or hackneyed with indiscriminate use.

v. intr.

To drive a taxicab for a living.
To work for hire as a writer.
To ride on horseback at an ordinary pace.

adj.
By, characteristic of, or designating routine or commercial writing: hack prose.
Hackneyed; banal.

Phrasal Verb(s):
hack out Informal
To produce (written material, for example), especially hastily or routinely: hacked out a weekly column.

[Short for hackney.]


(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This hack·ie (hāk'ē) Pronunciation Key
n. A taxicab driver. Also called hack2, hacker2.


(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
hack (1)

in O.E. tohaccian "hack to pieces," from W.Gmc. *khak- (cf. O.Fris. hackia, Du. hakken, O.H.G. hacchon), perhaps infl. by O.N. höggva "to hack, hew," from PIE *kau- "to hew, strike." Sense of "short, dry cough" is 1802. Noun meaning "an act of hacking" is from 1836; fig. sense of "a try, an attempt" is first attested 1898. Slang sense of "cope with" (such as in can't hack it) is first recorded in Amer.Eng. 1955, with a sense of "get through by some effort," as a jungle.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
hack (2)

c.1700, originally, "person hired to do routine work," short for hackney "an ordinary horse" (c.1300), probably from place name Hackney (Middlesex), from O.E. Hacan ieg "Haca's Isle" (or possibly "Hook Island"). Now well within London, it was once pastoral. Apparently nags were raised on the pastureland there in early medieval times and taken to Smithfield horse market (cf. Fr. haquenée "ambling nag," an Eng. loan-word). Extended sense of "horse for hire" (1393) led naturally to "broken-down nag," and also "prostitute" (1579) and "drudge" (1546). Special sense of "one who writes anything for hire" led to hackneyed "trite" (1749); hack writer is first recorded 1826, though hackney writer is at least 50 years earlier. Sense of "carriage for hire" (1704) led to modern slang for "taxicab." Hacker "one who gains unauthorized access to computer records" is 1983, from slightly earlier tech slang sense of "one who works like a hack at writing and experimenting with software, one who enjoys computer programming for its own sake," 1976, reputedly coined at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Hack (v.) "illegally enter a computer system" is first recorded 1984.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This hack

noun
1. one who works hard at boring tasks
2. a politician who belongs to a small clique that controls a political party for private rather than public ends [syn: machine politician]
3. a mediocre and disdained writer
4. a tool (as a hoe or pick or mattock) used for breaking up the surface of the soil
5. a car driven by a person whose job is to take passengers where they want to go in exchange for money [syn: cab]
6. an old or over-worked horse
7. a horse kept for hire
8. a saddle horse used for transportation rather than sport etc.

verb
1. cut with a hacking tool [syn: chop]
2. be able to manage or manage successfully; "I can't hack it anymore"; "she could not cut the long days in the office"
3. cut away; "he hacked his way through the forest"
4. kick on the arms
5. kick on the shins
6. fix a computer program piecemeal until it works; "I'm not very good at hacking but I'll give it my best"
7. significantly cut up a manuscript
8. cough spasmodically; "The patient with emphysema is hacking all day"

n3tfury
December 12th, 2007, 02:37 AM
babbling and extreme use of ctrl+c and ctrl+v

are you for real?

stalkier
December 12th, 2007, 02:46 AM
Honestly I was looking for a free and legal alternative to Windows with a nice GUI. Ubuntu came in in my search for a linux OS that used GUI so I checked it out. I loved the "Human" Theme that Ubuntu offered and decided to try it out. I believe the first version of Ubuntu I tryed was 5.05. That tells yo how long I have been using Linux OS. I really enjoy the apps that Ubuntu offers and the forums are killer. I am currently using 7.10 and the WiFi issues I was having with previous versions was cured in the new version. I am definatly staying with Ubuntu. Windows on the otherhand.......

Scarath
December 12th, 2007, 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inversekinetix View Post

babbling and extreme use of ctrl+c and ctrl+v
are you for real?

Dictionary-Bot what was the point you were trying to make?

tyggna1
December 12th, 2007, 03:04 AM
That dictionary post was like the puppy who lost his way and the industrial revolution (Billy Madison fans will get this):
"At no point in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this [forum] is now dumber for having [read] it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

n3tfury
December 12th, 2007, 03:06 AM
Dictionary-Bot what was the point you were trying to make?

it's a saying. i suggest not looking too deep into it.

v.alari
December 12th, 2007, 03:15 AM
AirPcap ftw! I want to learn networking as well and the security end of that is definitely important, kinda useless if your networks arent secure. In windows I found a program that could crack a WEP key in five seconds, with a good wireless capture of course. Never touch WEP again, WPA can only be cracked if a authentication packet is captured, and those arent sent very often. Learning networking is a good trade though, white-hatwise. Uncle lives in the tropics now because he wants too and he is into networking and needed there.

MerlinX420
December 12th, 2007, 06:00 PM
That dictionary post was like the puppy who lost his way and the industrial revolution (Billy Madison fans will get this):
"At no point in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this [forum] is now dumber for having [read] it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

First let me start by saying, " That's from Jay and silent bob!!!"
Technically what everybody is referring to is "cracking" not "hacking"
(the two most mixed up terms in computers)

As far a the Tools go.....

Aircrack-ng is good. But I like things pretty. Any1 know of a GUI Front End for it?

NMap I can't begin to describe how "usefull" I've found this program. I even have a fancy GUI front end for it. I highly recommend getting it. Trinity even uses it the first matrix movie!

And in case any1 didn't know insecure.org is the place for 'leet tools.

TCPDump, Kismet,OPH Crack, man the list goes on and on. I got stuff I haven't even figured out how to use yet.

The best and easiest way to get into a system is locally.
I once got the user files from a very popular bbs by just walking in the connected closet of the room...walked over to the puter and copied the files.
Back in the BBS days nobody thought to use "different" passwords and I was able to use that info to get into multiple systems and have a little fun.
It was literally a "back-door" hack!

Warpnow
December 12th, 2007, 06:27 PM
Ah, a post full of misuses of the word hack, script kiddies thinking they're big baddies because they can follow web tutorials, and a bunch of people trying to find a polite way to tell the OP he's a moron.

Edit: Cracking is not cool. Its irresponsible and immoral. And its even worse when they call it hacking.

n3tfury
December 12th, 2007, 06:27 PM
First let me start by saying, " That's from Jay and silent bob!!!"
Technically what everybody is referring to is "cracking" not "hacking"
(the two most mixed up terms in computers)

As far a the Tools go.....

Aircrack-ng is good. But I like things pretty. Any1 know of a GUI Front End for it?

NMap I can't begin to describe how "usefull" I've found this program. I even have a fancy GUI front end for it. I highly recommend getting it. Trinity even uses it the first matrix movie!

And in case any1 didn't know insecure.org is the place for 'leet tools.

TCPDump, Kismet,OPH Crack, man the list goes on and on. I got stuff I haven't even figured out how to use yet.

The best and easiest way to get into a system is locally.
I once got the user files from a very popular bbs by just walking in the connected closet of the room...walked over to the puter and copied the files.
Back in the BBS days nobody thought to use "different" passwords and I was able to use that info to get into multiple systems and have a little fun.
It was literally a "back-door" hack!

oh boy.

The Tronyx
December 12th, 2007, 06:31 PM
This thread is interesting...

There are a lot of things that come to mind but I don't think I have enough time to type it all up right now. I suppose it comes down to 1 thing, you need to understand that the truly "1337 h4x0rz" aren't the ones who exploit the information of others, but rather those who protect that information. Cracking Wi-Fi is not hacking, it's practically common knowledge these days. Tools like airsnort, ettercap, aircrack, etc. they are tools used for what some consider a black art and if you use them to pentest, that's the nature of the beast. Better security comes through real life application which often involves hacking your own networks or those built to be hacked (see rootthisbox.org). After all, it seems more proactive than waiting for someone to root your box and wreck your data. The important part is understanding the network protocols and how these things work. If you do not understand the program and it's inner workings you are in essence, a script kiddie, using tools made by others with little regard for the mechanics and the efforts of others.

There is an art to network security which extends beyond the programs others have given to the community. This knowledge and the tools associated with it should be treated with respect and used ethically.

Warpnow
December 12th, 2007, 06:41 PM
This thread is interesting...

There are a lot of things that come to mind but I don't think I have enough time to type it all up right now. I suppose it comes down to 1 thing, you need to understand that the truly "1337 h4x0rz" aren't the ones who exploit the information of others, but rather those who protect that information. Cracking Wi-Fi is not hacking, it's practically common knowledge these days. Tools like airsnort, ettercap, aircrack, etc. they are tools used for what some consider a black art and if you use them to pentest, that's the nature of the beast. Better security comes through real life application which often involves hacking your own networks or those built to be hacked (see rootthisbox.org). After all, it seems more proactive than waiting for someone to root your box and wreck your data. The important part is understanding the network protocols and how these things work. If you do not understand the program and it's inner workings you are in essence, a script kiddie, using tools made by others with little regard for the mechanics and the efforts of others.

There is an art to network security which extends beyond the programs others have given to the community. This knowledge and the tools associated with it should be treated with respect and used ethically.

Wow, so well said.

koenn
December 12th, 2007, 06:53 PM
Wow, so well said.
... if it wasn't for the fact that no hacker would call himself a "1337 h4x0r" - it's a tell-tale sign of the clueless wannabe

The Tronyx
December 12th, 2007, 06:55 PM
... if it wasn't for the fact that no hacker would call himself a "1337 h4x0r" - it's a tell-tale sign of the clueless wannabe

Hence the quotations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet_speak


Wow, so well said.

And thanks.

koenn
December 12th, 2007, 07:01 PM
I keep seeing the word 'hacking' being used in reference to 'modifying' or 'fixing' something. What happened to the good old word 'customising'? Call me old fashioned, but in my opinion 'hacking' should be reserved for 'intrusion' into computers or networks.

Getting something to work on your computer, or modifying how something works is not 'hacking', the terminology doesn't make sense (to me) and is annoyingly illogical (to me).

My TV remote was not working the other day, so I hacked it and replaced the battery, now it's working again. Make sense to you?

I hacked my computer today and changed the wallpaper image, font colours as well as added an animated start image. Sound right?

Why not use proper English words like modify, solve, fix, customise, tailor etc..

Not to me :)

OK, but if you'd fix something in in ingenious, skillful and creative way that also shows you really understand the workings of the thing you're fixing and would have a 'go by the checklist' technician go "how the hack did you do that ?" , then the word hacking would be appropriate - or at least that's how I understand it.

The Tronyx
December 12th, 2007, 07:07 PM
OK, but if you'd fix something in in ingenious, skillful and creative way that also shows you really understand the workings of the thing you're fixing and would have a 'go by the checklist' technician go "how the hack did you do that ?" , then the word hacking would be appropriate - or at least that's how I understand it.

I think from a technical definition no one would say they hacked their TV remote when changing the batteries or changing their wallpaper as these issues do not present a particularly technical issue. Now if they modified their remote to turn it into a telephone and a photocopier using a paper clip and some silly putty, it could be considered hacked. You can also say you hacked your PS3 to run Linux (which has been done). From what I can tell, hack is a term used regarding a clever work around for a technical problem which isn't easily solved by traditional methods. For examples, see the Microsoft source code leaks.


Microsoft programmers also take their duty to warn others seriously. There are over 4,000 references to "hacks", mostly warnings. These include



private\inet\wininet\urlcache\cachecfg.cxx:
// Dumb hack for back compat. *sigh*




private\ntos\w32\ntuser\client\nt6\user.h:
* The magnitude of this hack compares favorably with that of the national debt.




private\inet\mshtml\src\other\moniker\resprot.cxx:
// <HACK>
goto EndHack;
// </HACK>


The list goes on but this should give you an idea...

PartisanEntity
December 12th, 2007, 08:26 PM
First of all let me say that I am fully aware of how pedantic I am being, but bad linguistic skills are one of my pet peeves.

I simply do not understand why we have to come up with new meanings for certain terms when we already have words that can convey the correct meaning.

It really makes me cringe to see the word 'hacking' being used were the terms 'modify' or 'customise' would do very nicely.

I can fully accept a sentence such as "I hacked into the network". In this case, the verb 'hack' properly conveys an intrusive action into a network.

But "I hacked my laptop to make it toast bread" is terrible. Is it hard or uncool to say "I modified my laptop.."? Or "I customised..."?

Anyway, enough from me.

Warpnow
December 12th, 2007, 08:40 PM
First of all let me say that I am fully aware of how pedantic I am being, but bad linguistic skills are one of my pet peeves.

I simply do not understand why we have to come up with new meanings for certain terms when we already have words that can convey the correct meaning.

It really makes me cringe to see the word 'hacking' being used were the terms 'modify' or 'customise' would do very nicely.

I can fully accept a sentence such as "I hacked into the network". In this case, the verb 'hack' properly conveys an intrusive action into a network.

But "I hacked my laptop to make it toast bread" is terrible. Is it hard or uncool to say "I modified my laptop.."? Or "I customised..."?

Anyway, enough from me.


Because the word "hack" originally did not refer to intrusive or immoral behavior. Hackers were merely mislabeled as that. It is YOU who give it a second and confusing meaning....

The hacker subculture has been around since the beginning of the internet, and has pushed the internet forward the whole way. The general, ignorant, populous didn't understand it and so incorrectly labeled crackers hackers and so hackers got a bad name.

edit: If MS made propoganda ads to make people think Ubuntu meant Racism...would we abandon the name just because some people think it means something it doesn't?

koenn
December 12th, 2007, 08:44 PM
Apparently, "hack" in the meaning of "fix things in a clever way" dates back to the 60's-70s, so it's not that new.
It also has certain connotations (usually to do with skill or cleverness, somitimes also playfulness) that mere 'customize' of 'repair' lack...

Hack as in "network intrusion" and the likes is relatively new - mid-80's and 90s.

p_quarles
December 12th, 2007, 08:45 PM
@PartisanEntity: I think you just have the history of the word "hack" backwards. Before it meant "breaking into a network," it meant "modifying, writing, optimizing, or tweaking code." The former meaning is a byproduct of the word's entry into popular culture, and is actually a corruption of its original meaning in tech circles.

I avoid using the word around non-technical audiences, because they are more likely to associate it with illegal activity, but it's a perfectly good word and it would be ashame to give it up altogether just because it's perceived by some as referring to cracking passwords and firewalls.

As for cracking itself, it has its legitimate and illegitimate uses. Breaking into someone else's network is illegal. The fact that we have the security countermeasures to deal with most kinds of intrusions is a direct result of white hat crackers doing their jobs. I mean, who would call Bruce Schneier a criminal, right?

By the same token, a good locksmith can make a key that will open your front door. That doesn't make the skill possessed by this locksmith automatically suspect.

inversekinetix
December 13th, 2007, 12:48 AM
read my earlier post for more details on the meaning of hack.

@partisan entity, the reason words have new meaning ascribed to them is simple, English is a 'living' language as opposed to a dead one. It is a language in evolution and can't be stopped, I guess from your posts you must take a prescriptionist approach to linguistics, if you haven't read it you might enjoy


A Proposal for Correcting, Improving and Ascertaining the English Tongue. By Jonathan Swift.


its old but funny.

t0p
December 13th, 2007, 01:41 AM
I keep seeing the word 'hacking' being used in reference to 'modifying' or 'fixing' something. What happened to the good old word 'customising'? Call me old fashioned, but in my opinion 'hacking' should be reserved for 'intrusion' into computers or networks.

Getting something to work on your computer, or modifying how something works is not 'hacking', the terminology doesn't make sense (to me) and is annoyingly illogical (to me).


You obviously don't know this: but long, long before computer intrusion became known as hacking, the original hackers were computer gurus, the Unix wizards at places like Bell Labs and MIT. Hacking was what folk did when messing round with their computers - ie programming, modifying the OS, learning how to do new things.

The use of the word "hacking" to mean breaking into computers is a comparitively new phenomenon. If you don't believe me, check out the online document "How to be a Hacker" by Eric S Raymond. There's nothing illogical about using the word hack to mean working on your computer or modifying the way something works. And you get annoyed by the strangest things!!

FoolsGold45
December 13th, 2007, 03:02 AM
The hacker subculture has been around since the beginning of the internet, and has pushed the internet forward the whole way. The general, ignorant, populous didn't understand it and so incorrectly labeled crackers hackers and so hackers got a bad name.
I used to think like this, but then I realized it's entirely wasted effort arguing about the issue. Hackers (the good guys) have tried holding onto the idea that their version of the word is the acceptable one and the rest of the world doesn't understand. Well guess what? No-one cares, the word has a negative connotation and you won't be able to get rid of it. The war is lost, accept it and move on.

I have nothing but praise for crackers (the safe word to use), but damn if they make a mountain out of a molehill sometimes.

tyggna1
December 15th, 2007, 05:03 AM
Ah, a post full of misuses of the word hack, script kiddies thinking they're big baddies because they can follow web tutorials, and a bunch of people trying to find a polite way to tell the OP he's a moron.
.

Hey, I'm just happy that so many people got interested in the post. <goes back to php.net>

tehkain
December 15th, 2007, 05:10 AM
are you for real?

Yea everyone knows us real hackers use Kill(C-w) and Yank(C-y). Unless they are evil and use Vi(m)