Compiz is the greatest thing in Ubuntu. I shall explain why.

[SomeGuyDude]

I've noticed Compiz gets a lot of praise from some quarters, but a lot of hate from others. It's buggy, it's pointless, "real" Linux users don't need flashy windows.

I disagree, and I think Compiz is a fantastic advance in the OS realm. The reason being is it makes the desktop feel "physical". I like GUI interfaces because it feels less like I'm working with a computer and more like I'm working with a machine. It's why I like it when a word processor makes it look like it's a piece of paper instead of just a text console.

Compiz gives me the best approximation to that "bumptop" idea. Now my windows aren't just pixels on my screen that "vanish" when I click minimize and "pop" back when I restore them, or "snap" in front of and behind one another. They're objects that move around one another, visibly shrink down into the dock, and respond accordingly to being moved around the screen.

It's a minor effect, but makes a HUGE difference in how the desktop "feels". I am HUGE on aesthetics. I've said before that the panels made me feel claustrophobic, and simply getting rid of them suddenly made everything feel more "open".

It's not just about making things "pretty". It's the fact that the visual effects are another step away from your computer just being lights fired at your eyeballs and toward the idea of a "physical workspace".

Or maybe I'm just ramblin' like an idiot. Carry on!

[Harpalus]

I completely agree, and that's coming from a command line junkie. Compiz Fusion is absolutely fantastic.

[Dimitriid]

It will be once it has some resemblance of stability and proper driver support for the related hardware.

Until then it should be opt-in and its otherwise a mistake IF the distro tries to appeal to linux "newbies".

[hanzomon4]

Can't make everyone happy. I like the way it is now, however I remember using compiz back in the compiz-quinn days so maybe I'm just grateful I don't have to touch the gconf-editor...

[delfick]

I started using linux because of compiz :D
and now I'm a mod over at forum.compiz-fusion.org

now I use linux for many more reasons :)

and agreed with hanzomon4, thank goodness we don't have to use gconf-editor anymore to change settings, what a pain that was

or the original compiz-settings program that had the horizontal tabbed interface that meant we had to scroll horizontally once we had like 10 different plugins :D

that was a pain

[LaRoza]

I am a Fluxbox user, and when I use GNOME, I have no visual effects enabled, but I agree, Compiz is a great thing.

When I was playing with it, I was amazed at how tangible the desktop was. Not everyone will use it, but it is certainly a big plus for others.

[Vadi]

I'm with you here.

[miggols99]

I definitely agree with you. Compiz Fusion is great. Like I heard somewhere, things that just pop up (like menus and windows) don't seem natural. Too bad I can't use it at the moment. I'm waiting for Christmas - the laptop I will get has Intel graphics :) not ATI...

[zachtib]

i agree as well, in fact, i want to replace this laptop mainly because the ATI card doesn't support compiz well

[SunnyRabbiera]

I am somewhat neutral on this matter, on one side Compiz offers a lot of neat features at half the memory vista needs but I also feel that ubuntu is sacrificing quality and stability

[FuturePilot]

I've noticed Compiz gets a lot of praise from some quarters, but a lot of hate from others. It's buggy, it's pointless, "real" Linux users don't need flashy windows.

I disagree, and I think Compiz is a fantastic advance in the OS realm. The reason being is it makes the desktop feel "physical". I like GUI interfaces because it feels less like I'm working with a computer and more like I'm working with a machine. It's why I like it when a word processor makes it look like it's a piece of paper instead of just a text console.

Compiz gives me the best approximation to that "bumptop" idea. Now my windows aren't just pixels on my screen that "vanish" when I click minimize and "pop" back when I restore them, or "snap" in front of and behind one another. They're objects that move around one another, visibly shrink down into the dock, and respond accordingly to being moved around the screen.

It's a minor effect, but makes a HUGE difference in how the desktop "feels". I am HUGE on aesthetics. I've said before that the panels made me feel claustrophobic, and simply getting rid of them suddenly made everything feel more "open".

It's not just about making things "pretty". It's the fact that the visual effects are another step away from your computer just being lights fired at your eyeballs and toward the idea of a "physical workspace".

Or maybe I'm just ramblin' like an idiot. Carry on!
I totally agree with you.

[delfick]

I also feel that ubuntu is sacrificing quality and stability

I take it you haven't seen the default settings for compiz on gutsy ? :D

there's a reason they made it so conservative :)

also, they used a git version right before the 0.6.0 release, which I can tell you now is extremely stable...... :)

[Vadi]

I don't know, but I do not believe the stability claims people are making.

I never had Compiz crash. Ever.

[hanzomon4]

Me either, not since 0.5.2

[FuturePilot]

I take it you haven't seen the default settings for compiz on gutsy ? :D

there's a reason they made it so conservative :)

also, they used a git version right before the 0.6.0 release, which I can tell you now is extremely stable...... :)

Yes, it is fairly restrictive. Example, if you have a Nvidia card with less than 64MB VRAM, you won't be able to use Compiz. A few ATI and Intel cards have been blacklisted etc.(of course there's way to hack around it) But that's all there for a good reason and they did a good job of making sure that it's as problem free as possible.

0.6.2 is in the backports now :D

[SunnyRabbiera]

I don't know, but I do not believe the stability claims people are making.

I never had Compiz crash. Ever.

Its not compiz that is the issue, it is both Gutsy and feisty that makes me feel the developers care more about flash then stability...
I have had a rough time with both of them

[plun]

also, they used a git version right before the 0.6.0 release, which I can tell you now is extremely stable...... :)

Well delfick....:)

I have been using GIT version since April and I cannot call it stable...
Kristian for example wrote about Emerald and its a real crasher...

The latest Beryl SVN version available at Trevinos eyecandy repo
is "rock solid":

But apparently some advanced users killed the C-F project with
ideas going against all open source development.

But all are probably waiting for David Rs next move...."one man project"...:(

[Scruffynerf]

Stable? Haha ha ha ha ha ha
<deep breath>
ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I've recently tried installing compiz again on my Feisty setup (because Gutsy fails on install for me... consistently), and there is nothing that I can do that enables the cube, or drawing window decorations. I know it's running through several means, however it just doesn't work.

Been through this, and other less useful forums (like the compiz/beryl forums ironically) and done just about everything including manually editing xorg.conf, but it just doesn't work.

Looks pretty, but IMHO, as useless as a comb with no teeth.

[SomeGuyDude]

Stable? Haha ha ha ha ha ha
<deep breath>
ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I've recently tried installing compiz again on my Feisty setup (because Gutsy fails on install for me... consistently), and there is nothing that I can do that enables the cube, or drawing window decorations. I know it's running through several means, however it just doesn't work.

Been through this, and other less useful forums (like the compiz/beryl forums ironically) and done just about everything including manually editing xorg.conf, but it just doesn't work.

Looks pretty, but IMHO, as useless as a comb with no teeth.

Until this past week (which I think had something to do with an update, since it's stopped again), Compiz never crashed and every effect worked flawlessly.

So... yep. Stable enough for me.

[alwiap]

window transparency to me is the most valuable thing compiz has to offer and why i'm a compiz fan :)

[delfick]

I have been using GIT version since April

the 0.6.0 branch or master ??

I've been using 0.6.0 for ages (mind you I don't update very often anymore) and it's fantastic :D


also remember people, this is still a very young project and we can't solve problems with graphics drivers so some hardware is expected to give more problems than other hardware

and problems are expected to happen

but for a lot of people it's still pretty good :D

[delfick]

Stable? Haha ha ha ha ha ha
<deep breath>
ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I've recently tried installing compiz again on my Feisty setup (because Gutsy fails on install for me... consistently), and there is nothing that I can do that enables the cube, or drawing window decorations. I know it's running through several means, however it just doesn't work.

Been through this, and other less useful forums (like the compiz/beryl forums ironically) and done just about everything including manually editing xorg.conf, but it just doesn't work.

Looks pretty, but IMHO, as useless as a comb with no teeth.

damn, what's your hardware ? :D

[Ozor Mox]

I have had a rough time with both of them

But it's so easy to disable the effects if you don't want them or they make your computer unstable. Literally menu, turn off, done and that's it. You never have to think about it again. Not picking out you specifically, but that's why I don't really understand a lot of the complaints.

[aysiu]

My complaint about CompizFusionBeryl is the same complaint Gnome fans have of KDE.

While I've never found the options in KDE to be confusing or overwhelming, the options in Compiz are way too much.

It should just come with some sensible defaults--a slightly slower/smoother animation for Alt-Tab, a spinning cube enabled, etc.

[maniacmusician]

Stable? Haha ha ha ha ha ha
<deep breath>
ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I've recently tried installing compiz again on my Feisty setup (because Gutsy fails on install for me... consistently), and there is nothing that I can do that enables the cube, or drawing window decorations. I know it's running through several means, however it just doesn't work.

Been through this, and other less useful forums (like the compiz/beryl forums ironically) and done just about everything including manually editing xorg.conf, but it just doesn't work.

Looks pretty, but IMHO, as useless as a comb with no teeth.
there's a lot of factors involved with running Compiz; the version that you're running, what hardware you're running on, what drivers you're using, etc.

The highest deciding factor are your drivers; your drivers look at your hardware and create a command set for it. When Xorg wants to use the graphics card, it sends a command to the driver, and if that command is available, the driver carries out the command. That's where it gets fuzzy...not all drivers are fully developed because of proprietary hardware, and sometimes they're missing a full command set. Because of this, they could end up not supporting certain parameters that are used by 3D games and composite window managers, which can result in people not being able to run compiz.

There's also the fact that there's many places to diagnose the problem at; it could be a problem with Compiz communicating with Xorg, it could be a problem with Xorg communicating with the driver, or the driver communicating with the video card.

So when you factor in all the issues, like what version of Compiz, Xorg, and video drivers you're running, whether your drivers are fully developed, and the fact that there could be a bug in any one of those three things, then it's easy to understand why Compiz doesn't play nice with all systems. For a lot of people, perhaps even the majority, it is stable, as long as they're running a stable-rated version of compiz (such as 0.6, and not the latest git source).

[Luffield]

I love Compiz-Fusion, but for me the killer app of CF is enhanced zoom. I find it really difficult to live without it and I miss it terribly at work, when I'm on WinXP. I love all the beautiful effects, but I can live without them.
SomeGuyDude, your post made me curious to see your desktop!

[maniacmusician]

My complaint about CompizFusionBeryl is the same complaint Gnome fans have of KDE.

While I've never found the options in KDE to be confusing or overwhelming, the options in Compiz are way too much.

It should just come with some sensible defaults--a slightly slower/smoother animation for Alt-Tab, a spinning cube enabled, etc.
I do agree with this. I personally like all the options, because I like to tune the effects a lot, but I'm a big fan of having sensible defaults and a "simple" mode for the settings manager, where there aren't as many obscure settings for people that don't care about them.

[aysiu]

I do agree with this. I personally like all the options, because I like to tune the effects a lot, but I'm a big fan of having sensible defaults and a "simple" mode for the settings manager, where there aren't as many obscure settings for people that don't care about them.
There appear to be literally hundreds (if not thousands) of settings, most of which I don't even understand.

[maniacmusician]

There appear to be literally hundreds (if not thousands) of settings, most of which I don't even understand.
Well I understand most of them because I find myself to be very tech-oriented, and the ones I don't understand, I can usually learn more about by tinkering with it and seeing what it does.

But most people are totally uninterested in doing this and would rather just have simple settings, which is why I think that having a "simple" and "advanced" mode for a settings manager is an invaluable thing.

[plun]

the 0.6.0 branch or master ??

I've been using 0.6.0 for ages (mind you I don't update very often anymore) and it's fantastic :D


also remember people, this is still a very young project and we can't solve problems with graphics drivers so some hardware is expected to give more problems than other hardware

and problems are expected to happen

but for a lot of people it's still pretty good :D

Well, master branch... (of course :)) (with the strange version number :) )

Of course its good but the community is killed, every skilled user is away. Compare it with Beryls community with something new going
on nearly every day.

Now everyone must wait until David R comes up with his ideas and
have time to work with compiz-core. No meaing for fusion developers to work until his work is done.....

Nearly nothing happens now....http://gitweb.compiz-fusion.org/?o=age

So DavidR has the key.... :)

[zekopeko]

There appear to be literally hundreds (if not thousands) of settings, most of which I don't even understand.

thats why in hardy the devs plan to use a simple configuration app. it's in the blueprints (me thinks)

[aysiu]

Well I understand most of them because I find myself to be very tech-oriented, and the ones I don't understand, I can usually learn more about by tinkering with it and seeing what it does.

But most people are totally uninterested in doing this and would rather just have simple settings, which is why I think that having a "simple" and "advanced" mode for a settings manager is an invaluable thing.
I think for Compiz, it might make sense to have simple, intermediate, and advanced settings.

Even intermediate I could probably deal with.

[gumbi18]

I love compiz. I find that instead of hinder my productivity it really increases it, mainly because it keeps me interested in what's on the screen and not what's out the window... Sure it is a little unstable but it's come a fair way and is still going strong. I espeacially love being able to make windows transparent to allow me to compare values or other such things.

[Vadi]

Its not compiz that is the issue, it is both Gutsy and feisty that makes me feel the developers care more about flash then stability...
I have had a rough time with both of them

But all they did was make Compiz fusion pre-installed. Most of Compiz developers don't come from Ubuntu, as far as I know.

[crimesaucer]

I wish Compiz would make a full distro on their own that was completely customizable like the ccsm and Emerald are. (maybe make a few that are graphics card specific)

It could have a Compiz panel and app menu (similar to the Emerald Theme Manager but with more settings like the ccsm). A brand new Compiz file system full of new customized possibilities that Thunar and Nautilus don't have while keeping the best things about both file systems, maybe even a few other distro apps like a nice clock/calendar app or email program, and maybe something for desktop system stats that's like a mix between conky and a nice desklett (with customizable effects).

They could even make something like the screensaver plug-in that they had for a new compiz screensaver, as well as a customizable desktop setting for different ways of having desktop wallpapers and "live" wallpapers... and also a nice Compiz dock app. Maybe even a fancy gdm, or a new Compiz media player to play videos/movies/music in new ways...

I like Compiz Fusion and could see them becoming more than just a WM.

[hanzomon4]

What you're looking for Aysiu is simple-ccsm (https://launchpad.net/simple-ccsm/) and it will be in Hardy. Here's a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhKHwDVBwrc) of it in action.

[Vadi]

I wish Compiz would make a full distro on their own that was completely customizable like the ccsm and Emerald are. (maybe make a few that are graphics card specific)

I completely disagree on all accounts.

We don't need a new distribution that is a... window manager.

[crimesaucer]

I completely disagree on all accounts.

We don't need a new distribution that is a... window manager.

So you disagree on my wish? On "all accounts"... whatever that means... It's not like this is the Compiz development meeting... I simply made a wishful statement that doesn't require your agreement on "any account". How many distros are out there that are basically the same thing? My wish is for something different and new. I don't need your agreement. Thanks anyway.


I was simply saying that it would be nice if Compiz actually just made a distro of it's own... as in new apps, new ideas... from the people that seem to be in the forefront of new ideas rather than forked versions of the standards... There is no need to be rude like you were... we are all aware that it is just a window manager right now... why not hope that people might start a development team to take the same innovative ideas that they always have, and apply them towards a new distro, with a complete new interface using new apps with plug-ins and bindings galore?


I was only suggesting that as good as gnome, xfce4, and kde are, that there could be improvements on the little things like panel apps, calenders, file browsers, and certain desktop settings.


In all actuality, what we don't need is just another Ubuntu clone. Or some other debian clone... running the same vanilla apps... just with a different (ugly) wallpaper and different (ugly) gtk theme.


Anyway, If someone makes a distro that you don't want to use, then don't. No one is asking you to download it, install it, and use it... stick to what you want to use. Why even be rude about it?


There are so many Linux distro's out there, why object at one being made by the same people that such a high percentage of linux users end up having as there default WM anyway?


Think how much popularity Linux has been gained by Compiz/Beryl/Compiz Fusion... I just think they should think bigger than just a window manager.

[hanzomon4]

Actually something like that was discussed on the beryl forums way back when.

[crimesaucer]

Actually something like that was discussed on the beryl forums way back when.

To me, they just seem to know what a person likes in a WM, so why not a Desktop Environment or a complete distro? I know making a distro, and maintaing all of the packages and updates is very very difficult, but maybe if it merged as a side project along with a distro that is already is out there, maybe they could make something brand new.

Like if they took xfce4 apps, and just added the compiz touch to everyting, making it "xfce4-fusion" for a full DE, and then packaged it with something like Arch's base install as Arch-xfcefusion... without needing gnome, xfce4, or kde... and all gtk apps that already come with xfce4 could come with it.

[hanzomon4]

It would be a big task for compiz to grow into a DE, I'm thinking something like e17.

[rondamato]

Hey,

I totally agree with you. It brings us one step closer to (that craaaazy Scientologist!) Tom Cruise's "glass wall computer" in Minority Report.

Way back when Logitech released a "force feedback mouse" that used motors inside to allow you to "feel around" the desktop. For instance, you could feel when the mouse "snapped into" a button, or when you were "stretching" a window. It was primitive, yet strangely cool. I bought it mainly to disassemble the driver and to mess with it. It coulda been a cool thing with something like Compiz, although gfx cards that could support something like it were years away still.

It would be interesting if someone combined a haptic device with a WM accessory like Compiz so that you could toss windows around, spin a cube full of desktops, whatever, while retaining the "objects in the real world" windows physics model. I'd buy it! Developers, are you listening? How about Ubuntu with Compiz on a pair of Sony Glasstrons combined with something like the WiiMote? Cheap silicon-beam accelerometers make this a very real possibility, though far beyond MY programming abilities! Now THAT would be a real advance in the way people use computers!

Though knowing me, I'd still invoke a command line to get my "real" work done (sigh)...

[Scruffynerf]

damn, what's your hardware ? :D

My hardware is in my sig.

I tend to run the -generic kernal versions, rather than the x86 or 64 versions, and I'm currently quite happily running the beta of the new nvidia driver (169 iirc) which works well.

Yes, I have run different versions of that nvidia driver, and compiz fails me on all versions.

FWIW, the guide that I've been following is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager/CompizFusion

Yes, I really like the transparency - it's the main thing that I wish was in metacity.

[Scruffynerf]

there's a lot of factors involved with running Compiz; the version that you're running, what hardware you're running on, what drivers you're using, etc.

The highest deciding factor are your drivers; your drivers look at your hardware and create a command set for it. When Xorg wants to use the graphics card, it sends a command to the driver, and if that command is available, the driver carries out the command. That's where it gets fuzzy...not all drivers are fully developed because of proprietary hardware, and sometimes they're missing a full command set. Because of this, they could end up not supporting certain parameters that are used by 3D games and composite window managers, which can result in people not being able to run compiz.

There's also the fact that there's many places to diagnose the problem at; it could be a problem with Compiz communicating with Xorg, it could be a problem with Xorg communicating with the driver, or the driver communicating with the video card.

So when you factor in all the issues, like what version of Compiz, Xorg, and video drivers you're running, whether your drivers are fully developed, and the fact that there could be a bug in any one of those three things, then it's easy to understand why Compiz doesn't play nice with all systems. For a lot of people, perhaps even the majority, it is stable, as long as they're running a stable-rated version of compiz (such as 0.6, and not the latest git source).

Hiya MM~,

I do realise that, and I'm thinking that it could actually be the compiz version itself - mainly as it's the only thing I've yet to play with overly much. Xorg is the current stable one in the repo's, I've tried 3 versions of the Nvidia drivers (old repo one, new repo one, current 169 beta release), and manually added in a half dozen commands in Xorg.conf myself.

I can remember that I had a lot of similar trouble back when Beryl was separate, but I did manage to get that to eventually work. Perhaps I should try an older version of compiz.

[jaimz]

I have to agree with the thread maker

the effects make the desktop feel great
every time I go to windows
I miss being able to go to the right corner just to view all windows
or how everything moves around, minimizes, comes back up
& all those lil things that are "useless" but feel nice to have

I also miss the fact I can customize everything & how everything works when I switch to windows

without compiz, I feel like everything seems so plain

[Brindled]

SomeGuyDude and I are on the same wavelength.

I couldn't agree more. Now, if we could have different wallpapers on each side of the cube that would be grrrreat!

... or is that already possible and it's passed me by?

[Vadi]

I think it's possible. Check out compiz forums.

[crimesaucer]

Hey,

I totally agree with you. It brings us one step closer to (that craaaazy Scientologist!) Tom Cruise's "glass wall computer" in Minority Report.

Way back when Logitech released a "force feedback mouse" that used motors inside to allow you to "feel around" the desktop. For instance, you could feel when the mouse "snapped into" a button, or when you were "stretching" a window. It was primitive, yet strangely cool. I bought it mainly to disassemble the driver and to mess with it. It coulda been a cool thing with something like Compiz, although gfx cards that could support something like it were years away still.

It would be interesting if someone combined a haptic device with a WM accessory like Compiz so that you could toss windows around, spin a cube full of desktops, whatever, while retaining the "objects in the real world" windows physics model. I'd buy it! Developers, are you listening? How about Ubuntu with Compiz on a pair of Sony Glasstrons combined with something like the WiiMote? Cheap silicon-beam accelerometers make this a very real possibility, though far beyond MY programming abilities! Now THAT would be a real advance in the way people use computers!

Though knowing me, I'd still invoke a command line to get my "real" work done (sigh)...

Yes, I've seen some interesting "future computers" on StumbleUpon, you'll need the Firefox Stumbleupon account and extension to view these movie clips:

http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=l3edw1sopj
http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=hrewf1ukxe

[Vadi]

I talked with a bunch of my old friends recently, and here's why Compiz is great - it makes linux cool.

Simple as that. Its becoming popular among "the next generation" - which is excellent marketing for it.

[SomeGuyDude]

I love Compiz-Fusion, but for me the killer app of CF is enhanced zoom. I find it really difficult to live without it and I miss it terribly at work, when I'm on WinXP. I love all the beautiful effects, but I can live without them.
SomeGuyDude, your post made me curious to see your desktop!

I change my desktop almost incessantly. I'm always looking for that magical combo of dock/desklets/emerald/GTK/wallpaper that meshes perfectly and have yet to nail it.

As such, I have yet to get a desktop that's tweaked as much as it could be. I put it up in the desktops thread but here's what I've got so far...

Conky
An OSX GTK/emerald theme from GNOME-look
The nuoveXT 2 icon theme
Cairo-Clock with the "simpleclock" theme
AWN Curves with the black theme
A background I found on DeviantART
Bottom panel removed, top panel hiding in the upper-right because "auto-hide" looks like poop

In a week the whole thing will probably look different. It's not incredibly intricate, but it's easy on the eyes, simple, and meshes pretty well. My next step is to choose between screenlets and gdesklets and then figure out what'll work best on my desktop.

Step 2 will be to learn how to create my own themes so I can really put it all together, but that may be a ways off. :lolflag:

[Vadi]

I don't like how your nautilus looks :(

That does remind me to get awn-curves again!

[delfick]

please excuse the length of this post
this is what happens when you go to work for 10 hours and get back and go through several pages of a thread replying to many people's comments.... : )


There appear to be literally hundreds (if not thousands) of settings, most of which I don't even understand.

lol

not quite


I think for Compiz, it might make sense to have simple, intermediate, and advanced settings.

Even intermediate I could probably deal with.

advanced - http://gitweb.opencompositing.org/?p=fusion/compizconfig/ccsm;a=summary (which is designed to be a developer tool)

intermediate - http://gitweb.opencompositing.org/?p=users/crdlb/medium-settings;a=summary

simple - http://gitweb.opencompositing.org/?p=fusion/compizconfig/simple-ccsm;a=summary


Well, master branch... (of course :)) (with the strange version number :) )

there's your problem

there is a reason it's called a development version
and 0.6.0 is the stable version :D


Of course its good but the community is killed, every skilled user is away. Compare it with Beryls community with something new going
on nearly every day.

such a pessimest....
beryl wasn't quite as good as what you say

beryl killed the community
tust me, it was much more lively before that
(well before the harddrive crash that stole compiz.net from us anyways)


Now everyone must wait until David R comes up with his ideas and
have time to work with compiz-core. No meaing for fusion developers to work until his work is done.....

these changes will make it eaiser for compiz to have effects added to it

it is _definitely_ worth the wait.

and remember the core isn't finished yet, hence it has major changes as it is worked out

like any other project

remember without david's ideas in the first place we wouldn't have eyecandy at all....


Nearly nothing happens now....http://gitweb.compiz-fusion.org/?o=age

firstly, devs have local branches they do stuff in, and only commit when they want to

just because there is small changes committed, doesn't mean there isn't any changes

and as was explained in the cf planet, we can't expect too much untll the object framework thingo is done so that new effects are easier for the devs to make

remembering they do this in their free time, they do too much work they know they'll have to change in the near future



I wish Compiz would make a full distro on their own

and a compiz de too

problem being we only have so many devs who have the time and skill to do these things, and unfortunately not enough for these two massive projects that wouldn't really give us that much more anyways....



It could have a Compiz panel and app menu (similar to the Emerald Theme Manager but with more settings like the ccsm). A brand new Compiz file system full of new customized possibilities that Thunar and Nautilus don't have while keeping the best things about both file systems, maybe even a few other distro apps like a nice clock/calendar app or email program, and maybe something for desktop system stats that's like a mix between conky and a nice desklett (with customizable effects).

They could even make something like the screensaver plug-in that they had for a new compiz screensaver, as well as a customizable desktop setting for different ways of having desktop wallpapers and "live" wallpapers... and also a nice Compiz dock app. Maybe even a fancy gdm, or a new Compiz media player to play videos/movies/music in new ways...

I like Compiz Fusion and could see them becoming more than just a WM.

these are out of the scope of compiz

and would be handled by third party composite-aware programs


How many distros are out there that are basically the same thing? My wish is for something different and new.

try sabayon, that has compiz-fusion by default :D



Actually something like that was discussed on the beryl forums way back when.

I remember that thread, every single post was huge, so I didn't read it :p


and maintaing all of the packages and updates is very very difficult, but maybe if it merged as a side project along with a distro that is already is out there,

technically that's what it already does :)



It would be interesting if someone combined a haptic device with a WM accessory like Compiz so that you could toss windows around, spin a cube full of desktops, whatever, while retaining the "objects in the real world" windows physics model. I'd buy it! Developers, are you listening? How about Ubuntu with Compiz on a pair of Sony Glasstrons combined with something like the WiiMote? Cheap silicon-beam accelerometers make this a very real possibility, though far beyond MY programming abilities! Now THAT would be a real advance in the way people use computers!

http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=4494


My hardware is in my sig.

I pretty much have the same

Athlon 64 3500+
Nvidia 6600GT
using 164.04 Nvidia driver
1 GIg ram

works fantastic for me


and I'm currently quite happily running the beta of the new nvidia driver (169 iirc) which works well.

Yes, I have run different versions of that nvidia driver, and compiz fails me on all versions.

??


FWIW, the guide that I've been following is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager/CompizFusion

you do know that compiz-fusion comes default in gutsy, and all you have to do to enable it is go system -> preferences -> appearance -> Visual effects
then install ccsm (apt:compizconfig-settings-manager)
and play around with the effects ? :D



I have to agree with the thread maker

for the record, me too :D


I couldn't agree more. Now, if we could have different wallpapers on each side of the cube that would be grrrreat!

... or is that already possible and it's passed me by?

yep, there's a way
though you have to patch nautilus and compile it
there is a thread on compiz-fusion.org somewhere, but I can't find it right now...

[Scruffynerf]

please excuse the length of this post

Athlon 64 3500+
Nvidia 6600GT
using 164.04 Nvidia driver
1 GIg ram

works fantastic for me

??



Sorry - bad phrasing.

I'm currently using the 164.04 Nvidia Driver. I have tried installing compiz over the top of the old driver that existed in the repos (Package called nvidia-glx(Version 0.963)), the newer version in the repo's (Package called nvidia-glx-new (Version 0.9755)).

I've not noticed a problem with the Nvidia 164.04 drivers - everything except for compiz works nicely. Hence:
Compiz fails (for me) with nvidia drivers 0.963, 0.975 & now 164.04.

Does that make it easier to understand? IOW: Compiz (or the version that I have is broken. Synaptic reports the following:
compiz - version 1:0.5.2+git20070918-0ubuntu5~ppa1
Compizconfig-settings-manager - version 0.5.2+git20070829-0ubuntu1~ppa1
Compiz-core - version 1:0.5.1+git20070730~3v1ubuntu0

Are these the versions that everyone else is running? If not, what are the repo's that everyone else is using?

[maniacmusician]

Sorry - bad phrasing.

I'm currently using the 164.04 Nvidia Driver. I have tried installing compiz over the top of the old driver that existed in the repos (Package called nvidia-glx(Version 0.963)), the newer version in the repo's (Package called nvidia-glx-new (Version 0.9755)).

I've not noticed a problem with the Nvidia 164.04 drivers - everything except for compiz works nicely. Hence:
Compiz fails (for me) with nvidia drivers 0.963, 0.975 & now 164.04.

Does that make it easier to understand? IOW: Compiz (or the version that I have is broken. Synaptic reports the following:
compiz - version 1:0.5.2+git20070918-0ubuntu5~ppa1
Compizconfig-settings-manager - version 0.5.2+git20070829-0ubuntu1~ppa1
Compiz-core - version 1:0.5.1+git20070730~3v1ubuntu0

Are these the versions that everyone else is running? If not, what are the repo's that everyone else is using?
I'm running compiz fusion on a 7600GT with whatever version of the nvidia driver is in the Gutsy repositories. My Compiz Fusion is also from the Gutsy repos, and I believe it's the 0.6.0 version from git. Running KDE. That's my desktop.

On my laptop, I have Gnome installed, with an Intel X3100 video card, and the same versions of Compiz from the same reposities. Also works wonderfully.

You seem to be using Feisty? Your Compiz version numbers are older than mine, so perhaps that's your problem. Also, you have the "compiz" package installed, which I don't, but that's just a metapackage so I don't think it would make too big of a difference. I also have the compiz fusion main and extra plugins installed, but those are depended on by the "compiz" package, so you should have them too.

Perhaps you need to move to Gutsy and the newer version of Compiz Fusion rather than an older one.

[quanumphaze]

SomeGuyDude and I are on the same wavelength.

I couldn't agree more. Now, if we could have different wallpapers on each side of the cube that would be grrrreat!

... or is that already possible and it's passed me by?

I have it working, and here's a link Howto: Use Compiz Fusion or xwinwrap to draw your desktop background (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=577144)

You can set each face of the cube with a different wallpaper and use Xwinwrap to use a screensaver or video for the background. You loose the desktop icons though.

[delfick]

I have it working, and here's a link Howto: Use Compiz Fusion or xwinwrap to draw your desktop background (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=577144)

You can set each face of the cube with a different wallpaper and use Xwinwrap to use a screensaver or video for the background. You loose the desktop icons though.

the thread I was talking about makes it so you don't lose the icons :D

[Scruffynerf]

Perhaps you need to move to Gutsy and the newer version of Compiz Fusion rather than an older one.

Well, as stated in earlier posts, Gutsy just will not work for me.
Not from an upgrade
Not from a fresh install
Not from a second install disc
Not from the alternate install disc.
No dice.

I've also just tried re-installing everything from Trevhino's repos, so everything is now 1:0.5.5~git20071006+3v1ubuntu0

Same problem - no cube, no window borders. As a bonus, now the settings manager doesn't work either.

Running ccsm in terminal gives me the following:

Info: No sexy-python package found, don't worry it's optional.
/home/scruffy/.themes/TransMetal/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:29: Unable to locate image file in pixmap_path: "bubble-grey.png"
/home/scruffy/.themes/TransMetal/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:33: Background image options specified without filename
/home/scruffy/.themes/TransMetal/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:72: Unable to locate image file in pixmap_path: "bubble-grey.png"
/home/scruffy/.themes/TransMetal/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:76: Background image options specified without filename
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/bin/ccsm", line 45, in <module>
idle = ccm.IdleSettingsParser(context)
File "usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/ccm/Utils.py", line 229, in __init__
File "usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/ccm/Utils.py", line 228, in <lambda>
File "usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/ccm/Utils.py", line 225, in FilterPlugin
AttributeError: 'compizconfig.Plugin' object has no attribute 'Initialized'


Running the "compiz --replace ccp" in terminal gives me:

/usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Error: dlsym: /usr/lib/compiz/libccp.so: undefined symbol: getCompPluginInfo20070830
/usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Error: Couldn't load plugin 'ccp'


So, it looks like one of my themes from gnome-look appears to be broken, but other than that.. ??

[plun]

such a pessimest....
beryl wasn't quite as good as what you say and remember the core isn't finished yet, hence it has major changes as it is worked out

like any other project

remember without david's ideas in the first place we wouldn't have eyecandy at all....firstly, devs have local branches they do stuff in, and only commit when they want to



delfick... first of all no "hard feelings" about this.... :)

After DavidRs "disaster upgrade" in September and the "battle" between a few advanced Ubuntu users/devs and a famous packager the air went out of this project....

Everyone now knows that DavidR has the key and everyone must wait for him. No meaning to work with a lot of code if David suddenly changes everything.

I have not seen any plans for version 0.7.0 but this project must "rethink" and make it clear for devs and the community "whats up".

Now its also a real "spectacle" to watch newbies desperately trying to compile and install unsupported/new plugins.....:( This just kills a project. Nearly every advanced thread are spoiled because of newbies and problems with make and make install.....:(

A new dev with a new plugin doesn't want to answer tons with newbie questions about difficulties to do basic installs. He wants
feedback and proposals for making a plugin better. (not that you
needs header files for compiling:()

We will for sure see what happens....:)

[viking777]

IMHO compiz is nothing more than worthless 'bling'. I installed it, got it working (eventually) and then switched it off for good.

But it is worse than that, it is diverting huge amounts of time and energy from other projects that might actually improve Linux rather than just trying to compete with Vista which is what it is about.

Of course we all have different agendas as to how Linux can be really improved, as a laptop user #1 on my list is proper acpi implementation - I still can't even shut down my lappy without the power button or windows. #2 would be a disk imaging system that matches Acronis or Ghost for usability, speed and reliability (please don't mention partimage!) and #3 would be networking that works without having to rewrite the smb.conf file by hand every time.

I am sure you have all heard the fairy tale about the Emperor's new clothes, Compiz is the computing equivalent.

[Scruffynerf]

Heh, just found http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/Installation and tried again from there.

Once again, no dice.

[delfick]

Heh, just found http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/Installation and tried again from there.

Once again, no dice.

maybe you should try this http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=5019

also, how is it that gutsy doesn't work for you?
how is it not working?
(specifically :D)


delfick... first of all no "hard feelings" about this.... :)

same to you :D

though your opinion on all this can get fairly misinformed :p


After DavidRs "disaster upgrade" in September and the "battle" between a few advanced Ubuntu users/devs and a famous packager the air went out of this project....

??

is that what our last discussion/flame was about?


Everyone now knows that DavidR has the key and everyone must wait for him. No meaning to work with a lot of code if David suddenly changes everything.

read (again, if you already have, including David R's posts on the ML) http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~kristian/2007/12/06/the-way-ahead-for-compiz/

(for some reason that link's not working, but for now you can still find it top post here http://planet.compiz-fusion.org/)


I have not seen any plans for version 0.7.0 but this project must "rethink" and make it clear for devs and the community "whats up".

core has been constantly and rapidly changing over the past year, documentation is very hard to maintain.


Now its also a real "spectacle" to watch newbies desperately trying to compile and install unsupported/new plugins.....:( This just kills a project. Nearly every advanced thread are spoiled because of newbies and problems with make and make install.....:(

this is the same with any project.

the only difference here is that people get greedy and dive straight into the deep end and try compiling the latest before they even know how to compile and resolve dependency issues.


A new dev with a new plugin doesn't want to answer tons with newbie questions about difficulties to do basic installs. He wants
feedback and proposals for making a plugin better. (not that you
needs header files for compiling:()

these problems aren't as wide spread as you think

a lot of the time the issues people have are with the plugin itself rather than any lack of knowhow when it comes to compiling (which is a fairly basic and straight forward thing to do)

[Luffield]

Thanks for the screenshot and the info, SomeGuyDude.

[Scruffynerf]

also, how is it that gutsy doesn't work for you?
how is it not working?
(specifically :D)



Trying that now, but not holding much hope. Frankly, as I didn't like Beryl I don't know why I am trying so hard to do this.....

Not to derail the thread or anything...

Via the 'upgrade/update manager' Gutsy eventually installs, everything looks ok, reboots, I get a 480*320 resolution. Permanently. Nothing that I do despite looking around the web for around 4 hours can get anything less than that resolution. So worked, but unusable. So-called bulletproof X turns out to be so bulletproof that it rejects nvidia drivers. Gutsy's so called automatic detection also fails.

Via clean install - install hangs at around 89%
Via clean, different image, different burn - hangs at 92%
Via clean install from alternate cd, - hangs at 75%.

Separate home partition on another IDE drive.

Hell, even the liveCD blackscreens on me. I have to restart the x server on the fricken liveCD.

[delfick]

Trying that now, but not holding much hope. Frankly, as I didn't like Beryl I don't know why I am trying so hard to do this.....

Not to derail the thread or anything...

Via the 'upgrade/update manager' Gutsy eventually installs, everything looks ok, reboots, I get a 480*320 resolution. Permanently. Nothing that I do despite looking around the web for around 4 hours can get anything less than that resolution. So worked, but unusable. So-called bulletproof X turns out to be so bulletproof that it rejects nvidia drivers. Gutsy's so called automatic detection also fails.

Via clean install - install hangs at around 89%
Via clean, different image, different burn - hangs at 92%
Via clean install from alternate cd, - hangs at 75%.

Separate home partition on another IDE drive.

Hell, even the liveCD blackscreens on me. I have to restart the x server on the fricken liveCD.

ouch

that is extremely weird.....

might want to start a new thread about that...
(if you really want to pursue that :D)

[Scruffynerf]

maybe you should try this http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=5019


Nope, still no window decorations.....

That's 5 (count 'em, 5) different installs of the same window manager from 5 different areas, covering 3 versions and all failed.

Every last one.

Hell, I got e17 running with less hassle than this, and that's still advertised as beta. Fluxbox - no problem.

[delfick]

Nope, still no window decorations......

what happens when you type

emerald --replace

or

gtk-window-decorator --replace

in the terminal ??

and in the ccsm, do you have the decoration plugin enabled?

[Scruffynerf]

what happens when you type

emerald --replace

or

gtk-window-decorator --replace

in the terminal ??

and in the ccsm, do you have the decoration plugin enabled?

Answering last -> first.

Yes, ccsm's window decorator is flagged/enabled, with the command 'emerald --replace'

gtk-windows-decorator --replace yields:

(gtk-window-decorator:29194): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)

(gtk-window-decorator:29194): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)

(gtk-window-decorator:29194): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)

(gtk-window-decorator:29194): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)

(gtk-window-decorator:29194): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)

(gtk-window-decorator:29194): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)


emerald --replace in terminal yields:

(emerald:29139): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)

(emerald:29139): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)

(emerald:29139): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)

(emerald:29139): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)

(emerald:29139): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)

(emerald:29139): Wnck-WARNING **: Unhandled action type (nil)

[delfick]

don't know what those error messages means, but I think they happen to everyone

did either those commands give back window decorations ??

also, what does
compiz --replace ccp
give when you run it in the terminal ??

[Scruffynerf]

don't know what those error messages means, but I think they happen to everyone

did either those commands give back window decorations ??

also, what does
compiz --replace ccp
give when you run it in the terminal ??

Nope, no window decs.

I've already done that and posted the results in the previous page or 2. Errors. Specifically:


/usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Error: dlsym: /usr/lib/compiz/libccp.so: undefined symbol: getCompPluginInfo20070830
/usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Error: Couldn't load plugin 'ccp'

[delfick]

Nope, no window decs.

I've already done that and posted the results in the previous page or 2. Errors. Specifically:


/usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Error: dlsym: /usr/lib/compiz/libccp.so: undefined symbol: getCompPluginInfo20070830
/usr/bin/compiz.real (core) - Error: Couldn't load plugin 'ccp'

hey, you did too, my bad ....

by the looks of it, you're using the compiz wrapper script used by ubuntu, so you don't need the --replace ccp part (sry, my bad for not seeing that in the first place, there's a reason I'm only a mod on compiz-fusion.org, and not part of the support team as well :p)

try just running
compiz
in the terminal, and see if it gives errrors

if it still doesn't work after that, I suggest posting a thread on forum.compiz-fusion.org (if you have already, post a link to it and we'll continue this offtopic discussion there :D)

[Scruffynerf]

Just the following, from either compiz or metacity:

compiz (core) - Error: Screen 0 on display ":0.0" already has a window manager; try using the --replace option to replace the current window manager.
compiz (core) - Fatal: No manageable screens found on display :0.0

[delfick]

that's weird...

you did uninstall compiz and compiz-fusion completely before using that script before, yes ?

[Scruffynerf]

No. Whenever I attempt to uninstall compiz or a lot of it's dependancies, it wants to also uninstall gnome and ubuntu-desktop packages as well.

[delfick]

No. Whenever I attempt to uninstall compiz or a lot of it's dependancies, it wants to also uninstall gnome and ubuntu-desktop packages as well.

uninstall gnome ?

really

that's funny

what about if you use aptitude instead of apt-get ?

[Scruffynerf]

This is via synaptic.

[delfick]

in the terminal do

sudo aptitude search compiz

it will give you all packages that have something to do with compiz
say packageA, packageB,packageC, etc

then in the terminal do

sudo aptitude remove packageA packageB packageC

also, what packages does the search give, and what packages does it say it must remove ??

[Scruffynerf]

in the terminal do

sudo aptitude search compiz

it will give you all packages that have something to do with compiz
say packageA, packageB,packageC, etc

then in the terminal do

sudo aptitude remove packageA packageB packageC

also, what packages does the search give, and what packages does it say it must remove ??

The search gives:

i compiz - OpenGL window and compositing manager
p compiz-bcop - Compiz option code generator
i compiz-core - OpenGL window and compositing manager
v compiz-decorator -
p compiz-dev - OpenGL window and compositing manager - development files
p compiz-extra - extra third party plugins for compiz
v compiz-extra-plugins -
id compiz-fusion-plugins-extra - Collection of extra plugins from OpenCompositing for Compiz
id compiz-fusion-plugins-main - Collection of plugins from OpenCompositing for Compiz
p compiz-fusion-plugins-unofficial - Collection of UNOFFICIAL fusion plugins for Compiz
p compiz-fusion-plugins-unsupported - Collection of plugins for Compiz - Unsupported
i compiz-gnome - OpenGL window and compositing manager - GNOME utilities
p compiz-gtk - OpenGL window and compositing manager - Gtk window decorator
p compiz-kde - OpenGL window and compositing manager - KDE window decorator
i compiz-plugins - OpenGL window and compositing manager - plugins
p compiz-settings - Compiz Configuration tool
p compizconfig-settings-manager - Plugin and configuration tool - Compiz Fusion Project
v gcompizthemer -
p gnome-compiz-manager - Compiz Gnome Manager
p libcompizconfig-backend-gconf - GNOME Backend for the Compiz Configuration System
p libcompizconfig-backend-kconfig - KDE Backend for the Compiz Configuration System
id libcompizconfig0 - Settings library for plugins - OpenCompositing Project
p libcompizconfig0-dev - Development file for plugin settings - Compiz Fusion Project
p libgnome-compiz-manager0 - Compiz Gnome Manager
p libgnome-compiz-manager0-dev - Compiz Gnome Manager
id python-compizconfig - Compiz configuration system bindings
p taskbar-compiz - Compiz / Beryl taskbar viewport support

[delfick]

hmm


firstly an ubuntu mod might want to move out little offtopic discussion to a new thread :D

secondly, try to remove them one by one, if they want to remove anything that looks major, then leave that aside for afterwards, once you've gone through them all, try uninstalling the ones you put aside and post what they want to remove....

some things like ubuntu-desktop don't really matter if they're removed....

(there is probably a better way, but this is how i'd do it :D)

[Scruffynerf]

hmm

some things like ubuntu-desktop don't really matter if they're removed....

(there is probably a better way, but this is how i'd do it :D)

Bang.
Removing that effectively destroys the installation of ubuntu. Been there, done that, lost a lot of data.

[delfick]

Bang.
Removing that effectively destroys the installation of ubuntu. Been there, done that, lost a lot of data.

really?

I've done that before

did nothing....

[Vadi]

Um, that's not possible.

ubuntu-desktop is just a metapackage. So on it's own, it has no data - the only thng it does it have a lot of dependencies. So when you install it, you'll get a ton of programs. When you remove it, nothing will be removed but the links it has.

[plun]

(for some reason that link's not working, but for now you can still find it top post here http://planet.compiz-fusion.org/)

this is the same with any project.

the only difference here is that people get greedy and dive straight into the deep end and try compiling the latest before they even know how to compile and resolve dependency issues.



Thanks for the URL.... just to wait....:)

Its not the same for any project because you often don't have a situation when a stable release is not compatible with a GIT....:)
(XCB stuff and version numbering)

I have also never seen when a group fights a repo maintainer with
FUD.

About testing..... it must be a way to handle new plugins with packages. The problem is not unstable plugins, its mainly a driver problem (or a messed up install from different repos).

You can easily see different approaches to this between Ubuntu and Open Suse. "The OpenSuse way" leads to a living community with also newbies testing new plugins withous any special SmSpillaz builds.

IMHO......

:)

[Scruffynerf]

I once followed a psychocats tutorial for doing something, and removing 'ubuntu-desktop' essentially hosed my install. I'm not doing that again.

[Vadi]

You can easily see different approaches to this between Ubuntu and Open Suse. "The OpenSuse way" leads to a living community with also newbies testing new plugins withous any special SmSpillaz builds.

IMHO......

:)

This is completely off-topic, thanks!

[toupeiro]

I'd say 80% of what I do comes from the command line. I don't use gnome menu's. I'm actually trying to train myself to be more GUI-centric in my usage because thats the way I will need to support people. Even still, I am not a fan of menuing systems to get to applications, I never have been. I use a combination AWN, tilda, and katapult unless I am trying to show someone how to do something. No stinkin' bars, no stinkin' shortcuts on my desktop. So, why do I like compiz? because its a Killer Window Manager quite possibly the most useful one I've ever used. the screen corner hotkeys, the cube, (or the wall) the different ways I can assign actions, the window pickers.. It is superior window management, and it looks great at being superior.

[subs]

compiz has never crashed for me...... yet........

i cant even imagine my desktop without the cube!!

[PriceChild]

ubuntu-desktop is a metapackage and only depends on certain other packages. Removing it will not "hose" your install. You should look at what other packages are being removed.

If you upgrade from one version of Ubuntu to another. e.g. feisty to gutsy, please first check you have "ubuntu-desktop" installed before anything else.

[crimesaucer]

and a compiz de too

Well, I actually meant a Compiz Fusion Desktop Environment that could be used as the default DE in a distro that installs a base install (like Arch), and then gives you the option of installing either xfce4, gnome, kde, or the new Compiz Fusion DE. (or all of them)



problem being we only have so many devs who have the time and skill to do these things, and unfortunately not enough for these two massive projects that wouldn't really give us that much more anyways....

Yes, I'm aware that it would be major work and the current projects of Compiz, Compiz Fusion, and Emerald already is a lot of work... I wasn't imagining it being a reality anytime soon, but I do believe that eventually Compiz will become it's own DE in a few years, or at least something that forks Compiz's code and integrates it's concepts into a DE.




these are out of the scope of compiz

and would be handled by third party composite-aware programs

Yeah, probably everything except the panel, menu/menu-editior, and desktop settings (pretty much already in ccsm).

As for my wish at a Compiz File System like thunar (but with plug-ins and effects, as well as key bindings), it was only a wish. Could you imagine a File system with the possibilities of things like "wobbly folders", or using something like the "Shift Switcher-folders" and "Reflection-folders" plug-ins to browse through folders instead of just scrolling like regular. Like, using the bindings "ctrl+super+T" to flip through file types, then "ctrl+super+M" for flipping through files with the order of date modified, "ctrl+super+N" for name orders... or just scroll having the ability to use the file system like normal, with the mouse but when you click a folder, it has an animated effect like the wobbly, or a fade... maybe even a snow inside the file browser instead of the whole desktop...

And as for a Compiz terminal app to have a drop down terminal like tilda or yakuake, and embedded options like devils pie (ccsm already can do this through window management)... it just seems that the people at compiz could make this app better than anyone else. To me, it seems that they have that grasp on modern effects and the ability to make it stable and productive. Like the drop down could use their effects that they have for the drop down menus already.

And for my mentioning of a media player, I just was thinking about some sort of "embedded" media player that integrates into the desktop with custom effects around the borders, key bindings to use instead of a gui (but a nice polished pop-up gui when needed)... So there would be no Emerald borders, just a smooth transition from the desktop into a playing video.




try sabayon, that has compiz-fusion by default :D

Yeah, I looked at it but I'm not a fan of KDE. I'm also really happy with Archlinux. I chose my distro because it is i686, a rolling release with the most bleeding edge kernels and apps, because it's superfast, highly technical, and has an incredible package manager "pacman".

But in the future, when I can afford a new computer that could handle more resources and better graphics, if anybody ever came up with anything close to any of my ideas, then I would give it a go.

... But honestly, I was just bored and wasting time on yet another Ubuntu Community Cafe thread, that doesn't have much to do with anything other than creating flame wars or a big group hug about something we can all agree that we love...Compiz Fusion.

[SomeGuyDude]

I don't like how your nautilus looks :(

That does remind me to get awn-curves again!

I'm not entirely pleased with it either, but so far it's the best I've had that combines a GTK theme seamlessly with Emerald. I've yet to find a Metacity theme I liked, so I either have to to find one of the few that has a combo, make my own, or accept a difference 'tween the two.

Still on the hunt, if you've got any suggestions let me know.

[Vadi]

I like the default theme for it actually. The buttons look shiny when you move your mouse over them, and otherwise they stay in the background and don't distract you.

I only use nautilus for locating files quickly - so the left panel has is set to be "history" (that way I can go efficiently between folders back and forth). And otherwise, I really can't complain about its setup or theme. The only other theme I tried was ubuntu-studios, but I don't like how dark it is - it looks cool, but it's not friendly on your eyes.

[plun]

This is completely off-topic, thanks!

Nope.... 100% OnTopic. :)

This is about software development, a living community and recruiting
new devs and also learning newbies how to handle code from source.

Ubuntus way is a "MS-Connect way" with a "closed" testing user group or make it so difficult so newbies stays away... avoid "the Beryl broke my PC".

Just stupid.... OpenSuse and Cyberorg choosed another better way to handle this.... IMHO :)

I have always used the spanish makefusion script...... or manual compile but I am too lazy with that....:KS

[diego1188]

Excuse me if I ask for suggestions, this might sound OT - but this discussion seems to be read by a lot of CF users and this might help (as I guess mine is a stupid question).

I got CF to work one month ago on my PackardBell laptop with an ATI Xpress200M video card and the latest ATI driver. The main problem is that if I choose Xvimagesink option on gstreamer-properties I can't see videos with any application (blank screen); if I set it to Ximagesink i see the images, but framerate is acceptable only if the window is very small - if I switch to fullscreen, for example, I get more or less a 1fps framerate.
So If I want to see videos (and that's quite often, I don't even have tv at home...) I must switch to metacity.
I like CF, it has a lot of useful features (not just eye-candy), but I almost can't use it...

Any solutions?

Thanks, diego

[Vadi]

This is about software development, a living community and recruiting
new devs and also learning newbies how to handle code from source. You're funny :lolflag:

Ubuntus way is a "MS-Connect way" with a "closed" testing user group or make it so difficult so newbies stays away... avoid "the Beryl broke my PC".
Are you saying that you want... newbies testing Compiz? Absolute beginners in Ubuntu, so that they can get frustrated with not being able to compile, install properly, and have a not functional Compiz after? Yay what a great experience will they have.

o.O did I hear that right? I sure hope no...

Just stupid.... OpenSuse and Cyberorg choosed another better way to handle this.... IMHO :)
That's great. Because ubuntu is not opensuse, we have a different way! wow :)


I have always used the spanish makefusion script...... or manual compile but I am too lazy with that....:KS

Do us a favour then and make it easy for us to test compiz too! This is open-source, so nobody is forbidding you, right :)

[crimesaucer]

Excuse me if I ask for suggestions, this might sound OT - but this discussion seems to be read by a lot of CF users and this might help (as I guess mine is a stupid question).

I got CF to work one month ago on my PackardBell laptop with an ATI Xpress200M video card and the latest ATI driver. The main problem is that if I choose Xvimagesink option on gstreamer-properties I can't see videos with any application (blank screen); if I set it to Ximagesink i see the images, but framerate is acceptable only if the window is very small - if I switch to fullscreen, for example, I get more or less a 1fps framerate.
So If I want to see videos (and that's quite often, I don't even have tv at home...) I must switch to metacity.
I like CF, it has a lot of useful features (not just eye-candy), but I almost can't use it...

Any solutions?

Thanks, diego

If you install the package called "xine-ui", and then change the xine settings to use the video driver xshm it should work.

It's super easy. After you've installed xine-ui: http://xinehq.de/index.php/releases

... or it should be in synaptic.. I don't know why it isn't in the new wiki, but here is the one from feisty: http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Feisty#How_to_install_Xine-ui_Multimedia_Player


... Now, once you have the new xine-ui media player installed, just open it up from your ubuntu/xubuntu menu, and then click "Alt+S" to enter the "xine Setup" (or right click the Xine movie screen to see the drop down list of options, and then select: Settings-->--Setup and now you will also be in the "xine Setup".)


So in "xine Setup", select the tab called "Video", and you will see the first option at the top called "video driver to use", and it will be set to "auto".

Change that setting to use the "xshm" video driver.

The restart xine-ui and you should be able to see all movies.


#### I also found that the new MPlayer 1.0rc2 works perfectly without having to change any settings: http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/news.html


I had problems with Totem, and xine-ui using the auto driver. (which both worked perfectly in metacity and xfwm4).

[plun]

Do us a favour then and make it easy for us to test compiz too! This is open-source, so nobody is forbidding you, right :)

Well, its really easy to test software when you have a "packager"
which serves a community with new code, example Trevino and Reacocard for AWN

Trevino was hunted down and didn't like it anymore.

When you are a lot of testing users this drives development and new ideas.

Now we have a situation with "noobs" desperately trying to compile source on a stable release which are not comptible with GIT source...:)

Just ridiculous.... MS Connect and this...:)

[Vadi]

Well make the packager work then! Why sit around all day and critisize and do nothing? You aren't being heplful at all.

[plun]

Well make the packager work then! Why sit around all day and critisize and do nothing? You aren't being heplful at all.

Well.... this advanced group of Ubuntu users and devs (no named)
must maybe first clarify their point of view.

And also how they sees on testing software.... maybe they wants a
MS-Connect for Ubuntu, a special testing group sitting on "high chairs"...:)

Trevino must also have an apologize.... despite his patches which he is only doing because he for 100% believes its better.

[Scott_fakename]

I used compiz for about twenty minutes on feisty... Turned it off after about ten random freezes. It was pretty while it was running.

Is it stable yet? If so, I shall begin using it.

--Scott

[maniacmusician]

I used compiz for about twenty minutes on feisty... Turned it off after about ten random freezes. It was pretty while it was running.

Is it stable yet? If so, I shall begin using it.

--Scott
The version on Gutsy is more stable than the one on Feisty, yes.

[Brindled]

I think it's possible. Check out compiz forums.

it is. i did. it worked. however, you do have to disable nautilus as your desktop, which is not hard for me since i used windows with its active desktop turned off and a shell replacement for years. i now have different wallpapers on each side of the cube.

thanks for the advice

[delfick]

@Plun, I thought the whole comparing to windows thing (which is just plain stupid, you can't compare those two things, they are completely different) was over and done with.

as mentioned, getting all the newbies to test the latest stuff just leaves us with the situation we had back in the compiz-quiinstorm days. Where every single day we had a new "latest version broke" thread because quinn would release more every day and what quinn released was all we had.

this is why the compiz team decided to break up development and stable so that those new to linux didn't have to fight with getting the devlopment version working....

not everyone wants to test, most people want a usable window manager.

For those who do want to test they have that option, but as we warn them, they will experience problems

we do this so they don't spread FUD about how hard it is to use this stuff

when the stable stuff works.

now please, if you really want to continue this discussion (which I believe ended a very long time ago), please stop the windows comparisons. (and references to the mistakes of the past, i.e. beryl)

thankyou

[plun]

delfick.....unstable or new plugins doesn't brake PCs....
In 99% of all cases its about drivers and mixed repos.

I have a MS-Connect account (will never login again)....exactly the same mechanisms drives MS and a rather small group of testers. They all think other user are just stupid and they should run final software...

Open Source are in really dangerous "water" if we adopt the same thinking.

- If a user wants the snow plugin....give him/her a package.

- If a user wants the snow plugin as source code..... learn this user howto handle this code.

- I dont know where all this new totally crazy thinking comes from....:confused: Just look at C-Fs forum.... a dustbin...:(

A total mess.....:(

[delfick]

delfick.....unstable or new plugins doesn't brake PCs....
In 99% of all cases its about drivers and mixed repos.

I have a MS-Connect account (will never login again)....exactly the same mechanisms drives MS and a rather small group of testers. They all think other user are just stupid and they should run final software...

Open Source are in really dangerous "water" if we adopt the same thinking.

- If a user wants the snow plugin....give him/her a package.

- If a user wants the snow plugin as source code..... learn this user howto handle this code.

- I dont know where all this new totally crazy thinking comes from....:confused: Just look at C-Fs forum.... a dustbin...:(

A total mess.....:(


then start a new thread in the cf forum and ask the devs if there is a better way to distribute plugins.......

or even better ask on the compiz ML

[plun]

then start a new thread in the cf forum and ask the devs if there is a better way to distribute plugins.......

or even better ask on the compiz ML

delfick.... stand up and "fight" for this....:)

I would never accept a situation with a IRC clan ruling a project with
"hidden agendas".... or hidden user groups...

Or a administrator which believes he can rule everything.

Its easy....:guitar:

[delfick]

delfick.... stand up and "fight" for this....:)

I would never accept a situation with a IRC clan ruling a project with
"hidden agendas".... or hidden user groups...

Or a administrator which believes he can rule everything.

Its easy....:guitar:

I'm seriously going to ignore you again Plun

we've been over this

there is no hidden agenda

and nothing is going to happen with regards to any problem you have if you don't do something constructive and ask in the correct places

anywho, off to work (oh joy, 10 hours on a checkout, I really need a new job, lol :D)......

[Vadi]

Who else here supports pluns point of view on compiz?

[Scruffynerf]

Who else here supports pluns point of view on compiz?

Hard to say without being involved in the dev teams... but his point of
"Or a administrator which believes he can rule everything." is odd, because doesn't Torvalds himself think this way over the kernel itself?

[Vadi]

I don't think plun is involved in dev teams in any way at all either. He just randomly goes on rants about compiz, the project management, pointing out some "ms connect" thing. I just think it's not accomplishing at all and trying to shed unnecessary bad light on such an excellent project :|

(in short, he's not doing anything helpful and is just trying to ruin it)

[Scruffynerf]

Back... (slightly) on topic...

Delfick, I do appreciate all the help that you are providing here to me (and possibly others).

I'm intending this to be the last crack at getting this running. If this fails, then the next time will be when I upgrade/install from Feisty to Heron.

I've removed all the compiz/desktop effects/ubuntu-desktop packages, and am attempting to re-install from the script that you've provided me.

Lets see how this goes...

[delfick]

I don't think plun is involved in dev teams in any way at all either. He just randomly goes on rants about compiz, the project management, pointing out some "ms connect" thing. I just think it's not accomplishing at all and trying to shed unnecessary bad light on such an excellent project :|

(in short, he's not doing anything helpful and is just trying to ruin it)

nope, he isn't behind any part of compiz

(sry for continuing speaking about you in third person right infront of you, plun :D)

basically the politics behind the project in the period between losing compiz.net and finally releasing compiz-fusion to the public has left a bad feeling around the project and some people who were there at the time....

especially between the people behind the project itself
though some users, i.e. Plun still view beryl in a brighter light than the current situation
(which is a silly thing as a merged community will do much much much more than a split community)
(beryl may be better in some ways but that is because of the rushed hacked method a lot of things were accomplished by. The devs are working hard to reminplement a lot of that in a proper method to reduce the bugginess of such methods and provide a more stable wm as a lot of this thread has complained about...)
(excuse my poor sentence structure, I'm tired :p)

fortunately most of that is now over, and we can continue going forward harmoneously.......

(if only we never forked the code in the first place, we wouldn't have so many problems, most of which caused by the resulting seperation of the community)

as for the administrator comment, I strongly believe that problem is over since nesl247 stood down.......

anyway, we've already had a fairly lengthy discussion on the cf forums (that went no-where because Plun refuses to bring up his issues where they are actually seen by the people he is complaining about, in the ML)


Back... (slightly) on topic...

Delfick, I do appreciate all the help that you are providing here to me (and possibly others).

no probs :D


I'm intending this to be the last crack at getting this running. If this fails, then the next time will be when I upgrade/install from Feisty to Heron.

I've removed all the compiz/desktop effects/ubuntu-desktop packages, and am attempting to re-install from the script that you've provided me.

Lets see how this goes...

good luck :D

[Scruffynerf]

...and no.

Actually tried two methods. The first was the script, which downloaded everything, but wouldn't install properly - wanted some odd x?? package which wasn't supposed to be in the 0.6.0 release version.

Second take was from an old feisty guide I found that referred to Trevhino's repos...... that installed, but with no window borders... so back to square 1.

Yeah, compiz looks nice, but IMHO, it barely qualifies for beta status. I consider it still in alpha. It's unstable.

[delfick]

...and no.

Actually tried two methods. The first was the script, which downloaded everything, but wouldn't install properly - wanted some odd x?? package which wasn't supposed to be in the 0.6.0 release version.

xcb ??

that shouldn't be asked for

post the error messages you get in that forum thread, they may be able to help there....


Second take was from an old feisty guide I found that referred to Trevhino's repos...... that installed, but with no window borders... so back to square 1.

If you want stability, you don't want trevhino's repos :D (he may be quick to fix problems, but from what I can gather, problems occur often)

if you want to use a repo, use this one http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/showthread.php?t=3153


Yeah, compiz looks nice, but IMHO, it barely qualifies for beta status. I consider it still in alpha. It's unstable.

took me ages to get compiz working when I first tried it...

back when dapper was pre-release....

that took ages, finally got there though, and have been fairly lucky since :D

[Scruffynerf]

Yeah, I've tried amaranth's repo / instructions.... no window manager there either for me.

[delfick]

Yeah, I've tried amaranth's repo / instructions.... no window manager there either for me.

damn....

yeah, probably your best bet is posting the errors you get from that script in that thread....

[diego1188]

If you install the package called "xine-ui", and then change the xine settings to use the video driver xshm it should work.
Thanx Crimesaucer! :cool:
Unfortunately didn't work for me... :(

[descoffey]

Hi

As a newbie, I would like to try Compiz.
I downloaded it using Applications Add/Remove
All seemed to go well and I have Advanced Desktop Effects Settings in my Systems/Preferences folder, but I have no clue on how to actually get it running...

Any help?
:(

[crimesaucer]

Thanx Crimesaucer! :cool:
Unfortunately didn't work for me... :(

Try the new mplayer 1.0rc2: http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/news.html


... also look into the Compiz Forums and seacrh for your video problem, or start a new thread: http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/index.php

[crimesaucer]

Hi

As a newbie, I would like to try Compiz.
I downloaded it using Applications Add/Remove
All seemed to go well and I have Advanced Desktop Effects Settings in my Systems/Preferences folder, but I have no clue on how to actually get it running...

Any help?
:(

Go here and ask, you'll get more responses: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=223


also ask here: http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/index.php

[markusf21]

My only complaint about compiz is that it sometimes leaves ghosts on my screen. But besides that it works and looks great.

[benzs_s]

I've noticed Compiz gets a lot of praise from some quarters, but a lot of hate from others. It's buggy, it's pointless, "real" Linux users don't need flashy windows.

This is why I don't use it. No snobbery on my part. It's just buggy and glitchy.

[bruce89]

It's great for impressing people, but it's totally useless for normal use.

[Vadi]

Good enough. You can't count the number of linux users it converted, or how it changed the view on linux to be a trendy OS.

[MONODA]

personally i really dont like compiz, way to buggy. And its not only that, I like the way metacity does things more than compiz Fusion does.

[alwiap]

I like Compiz, and it attracted me to Linux after watching some youtube videos, but I've made the decision when HH 8.04 comes out, I'll stay away from it. I like using the expo and expose, but it seems like every day I untick options in CCSM (i.e. Wobbly Windows). It is cool and I agree it helps people get into Linux (WHAT??? THIS IS FREE???) but I can do without. Personal preference though.

[hyper_ch]

I just use compiz to tell the vista ppl I know that with me (old) machine I can do better tricks than they can with their brand-new vista machine...

[pt123]

I like Compiz but there doesn't seem to be much progress made in recent times.

Before for Feisty Trevino used maintain an upto date repository. But none exists for Gutsy and hence I think they lost a lot of the fan base.

[SomeGuyDude]

It's great for impressing people, but it's totally useless for normal use.

How is it "useless"? I admit that things like the rotate cube and such are just eye candy, but I have my litany of effects going always and when they're off, my experience feels palpably different.

[CJ56]

Actually I totally agree with the OP's point. Sometimes eye-candy is just a bit of silliness. But if you spend a lot of time glued to your screen doing (in my case) pretty much the same things (word processing, checking emails, using the internet), you get pretty sensitive to the way you relate to your computing environment.

One of the things that turned me off from Xp was sheer boredom provoked by the incredibly limited number of ways I could change anything about the GUI. One of the things that turned me on to Ubuntu with GNOME was the limitless number of options (some sensible, some idiotic, I know) available for changing the electronic workspace. Compiz at the moment works well on my PC and I am genuinely grateful for the ways it lets me shift material around. I don't think you can underestimate the importance of this stuff: we, the end users, are humans with all sorts of quirky needs and tastes which have to be satisfied in all sorts of ways. Eye candy is not bit of froth on top of the experience: it is an integral part of the relationship with the screen.

In fact, I think this is part of a really big question about the way we relate to all the electronica we have to deal with every day, a question which Apple Inc have gone some way to solving, but now I'm off and ranting...

[billgoldberg]

It's great for impressing people, but it's totally useless for normal use.

I wouldn't call the expo plugin and cube useless. Multitasking is alot easier and faster with those.

Compiz fusion is one of the main attractors (is that a word?) of linux/ubuntu.

Without compiz fusion (beryl) it just wouldn't feel that great. Most people were pulled in (including me) because of those effects. And because of it discovered the greatness of linux.

[rzrgenesys187]

Compiz is nice (i especially like using the cube) but I don't run it, too many bugs with other programs while running it and it is a bit of a resource hog.

[detroit/zero]

Personally, I liked Beryl better. It ran lighter, did just as much, and was/is just as customizable.

I don't use it any more, now that it's a discontinued project, but if it came back to life I'd be all over it.

[Frak]

"Look boss, my paper looks and feels like a peice of paper!"
"Good work Dave, now get your work done or your fired. You can take your peice of paper with you..."

In the end, it comes down to getting work done, not "it feels soooo reeeaaal!"

[delfick]

"Look boss, my paper looks and feels like a peice of paper!"
"Good work Dave, now get your work done or your fired. You can take your peice of paper with you..."

In the end, it comes down to getting work done, not "it feels soooo reeeaaal!"

true

and depending on how you use compiz it can make getting work done more productive :)

[Frak]

true

and depending on how you use compiz it can make getting work done more productive :)
As long as it doesn't involve a 7-finger-disco, I'm with it.

[MaxIBoy]

I've noticed Compiz gets a lot of praise from some quarters, but a lot of hate from others. It's buggy, it's pointless, "real" Linux users don't need flashy windows.

I disagree, and I think Compiz is a fantastic advance in the OS realm. The reason being is it makes the desktop feel "physical". I like GUI interfaces because it feels less like I'm working with a computer and more like I'm working with a machine. It's why I like it when a word processor makes it look like it's a piece of paper instead of just a text console.

Compiz gives me the best approximation to that "bumptop" idea. Now my windows aren't just pixels on my screen that "vanish" when I click minimize and "pop" back when I restore them, or "snap" in front of and behind one another. They're objects that move around one another, visibly shrink down into the dock, and respond accordingly to being moved around the screen.

It's a minor effect, but makes a HUGE difference in how the desktop "feels". I am HUGE on aesthetics. I've said before that the panels made me feel claustrophobic, and simply getting rid of them suddenly made everything feel more "open".

It's not just about making things "pretty". It's the fact that the visual effects are another step away from your computer just being lights fired at your eyeballs and toward the idea of a "physical workspace".

Or maybe I'm just ramblin' like an idiot. Carry on!

I've said this a lot of times, but you've stated it much better than I ever have.

[sixstorm]

If it were not for Compiz/Beryl, I would have never tried Ubuntu two years ago. True story.

[Lunx]

Compiz is pretty cool and also practical in many aspects, although it does have a few bug (quirks?) that need work. I also think the GUI for the settings manager was a little more intuitive. Also there isn't much decent documentation which explains all the features in a manner a newbie could easily work out. I realise there's stuff around (Youtube, et al), but I figure the devs are the best one to understand how it all works, so they could perhaps share that knowledge with the rest of us ;)

And I'm not sure as a Gnome app that Compiz is the best either, Gnome-do rocks!!! :p

[gnomeuser]

While I have no qualms with the technology itself, as I believe that is important. I also believe that a certain level of effects in the desktop is a good thing which can help make it easier and more fun to use. I do have the following to remark being someone who does work with QA and has seen first hand the fallout from the rushed enablement of Compiz.

The enabling of Compiz happened before the platform was ready to support it. Now years later we are stuck with millions of bug reports, infestations of proprietary drivers which in return due to their poor stack usage causes crashes in other parts of the system most notably entirely undebuggable kernel oopses along side presenting a security problem and causing the platform to be uniformly portable to architectures outside the x86/x64 world. Canonical who forced this on us while themselves investing nothing in fixing the underlying issues, instead forcing others to pay for their folly.

It was enabled to early, it caused a whole boat load of problems and today we are still not at a point where we can comfortably default to a composited environment on most machines. We are only just getting there now with DRI2, KMS and Gallium and these components of the great puzzle are not likely to be fully in place for another year or two on all common hardware configurations.

I feel that Canonical' conduct in this affair is utterly disgraceful, it forced a lot of other companies to have to pay for development before it should have happened while not throwing a dime at the problem themselves. It gave users a false impression of what Linux is capable of, leading to disappointment. When rolled out Compiz enabled environments were not able to do even common tasks such as watching a movie using XV acceleration (we still don't do this correctly unless DRI2 is fully supported on the hardware or if we employ proprietary drivers which are known to cause endless grief for kernel developers as well as increase overall system instability btw.)

Canonical shot us all the face without shred of an apology or a promise to help work on improving the situation they helped cause, all purely for their own (failed) short term PR gain. I think they should be ashamed of themselves.

[Lunx]

The enabling of Compiz happened before the platform was ready to support it...

It was enabled to early, it caused a whole boat load of problems and today we are still not at a point where we can comfortably default to a composited environment on most machines. We are only just getting there now with DRI2, KMS and Gallium and these components of the great puzzle are not likely to be fully in place for another year or two on all common hardware configurations.


But I guess that is one of the pitfalls with many FOSS projects as they all tend to rely on other factors which undergo development at different rates, so do the developers of one new app or technology hold back until everyone is all ready at the same time? The last statement is an impossibility I suppose, so most often there is no alternative other than accepting something a little less than perfect.

[cb951303]

I agree that some effects are really useful.

For example, drop shadows. It's a very simple effect but it provides a very nice contrast and helps me differentiate overlayed windows.

Another useful effect is the window content preview thingy. If you have lots of same application open, it can be very hard to find the one you need from the panel. With window preview it's easier.

Same thing goes for Alt+Tab preview.

I also like how animations feel with compositing on. Like window fade in/out. It feels more stable than windows appearing from nowhere.

Although not yet possible, compositing for GUI elements (GTK widgets) may be very useful too. Think of how E17 buttons shine when you move the cursor over. It just gives better feedback to the user.

BUT: I don't use compositing. Because simply there is no good implementation yet (at least by my standards :)) (except maybe KDE 4). :popcorn:

[Praxicoide]

I moved down from a newer to an older computer. This meant moving from Ubuntu with Compiz to Xubuntu with Xfce. The feeling of "flatness" got some getting used to. I know this is just aesthetic, but we can guess how motivation affects productivity, and let me tell you that it feels good to work in a space that has been made your instead of a standard interface (windows anyone?). Customization options multiply with Compiz, and in this sense, it's a good thing.

[Paqman]

I love Compiz, I find desktops without it really boring to use. I also never used workspaces before I could put them on a cube. For some reason flipping back and forth "fits" in my head for the abstracted idea of multiple desktops, where it just didn't before.

Personally, I think Compiz absolutely should be enabled by default on machines that can run it, as the kind of people who tend to dislike Compiz are also those who're more than capable of switching it off.

More stability would be nice though. It's not until you run a testing branch with Apport that you realise how often Compiz crashes out.

[Lunx]

Think of how E17 buttons shine when you move the cursor over. It just gives better feedback to the user.


Avant's got some pretty groovy effects if you want that style of thing.

[gnomeuser]

But I guess that is one of the pitfalls with many FOSS projects as they all tend to rely on other factors which undergo development at different rates, so do the developers of one new app or technology hold back until everyone is all ready at the same time? The last statement is an impossibility I suppose, so most often there is no alternative other than accepting something a little less than perfect.

We are closer now than you would believe. KMS is in good shape for ATI and Intel, nearly all nvidia GeForce 8 series cards work. DRI2 is coming along very nicely and Gallium was moved to mainline and will be the default for the next Mesa release.

I think you will see it running acceptably (but not fantastic) in a year on many common combinations of hardware. Enough to roll out a compositing environment by default (which very likely be required for GNOME Shell e.g.). Red Hat especially are investing heavily in improving the X stack and drivers (they have hired people to work on drivers for ATI, nVidia and Intel cards, along with MPX, DRI2, KMS and other required pieces of the composited desktop puzzle), vendors are starting to provide us with specifications. Things are moving in the right direction quickly now.

My problem with Canonicals conduct is mainly that everyone who was maintaining the stack this depended on said it was not ready. We knew what would be required to get to the point where we could talk about doing this by default.. they completely ignored that and did nothing to help make the roadmap to recovery happen. It was a PR move that benefited only Ubuntu and at the cost of thousands of billable manhours for everyone else to boot. It cast poor light on Linux as a whole by giving the impression this worked when it was known that it did not for even very common use cases.

Compiz is a technology preview and should have stayed that way for optional enablement for those who know what they are doing and have setups that are supported.

[cb951303]

Avant's got some pretty groovy effects if you want that style of thing.

avant is not a GUI toolkit. I'm talking about gtk buttons, listboxes etc...

[Daremo_06]

Where is the BEST place to learn how to correctly configure Compiz? I have already looked at so many links and webpages my head spins trying to remember what I saw where...

Also, along with configuring it, a simple guide that explains what every single function is, because some of them are not intuitive when you read the little blurb in Compiz when you let the mouse hover over them.

[Johnsie]

compiz only works on some computers and the gui is really bad.

[0per4t0r]

I love Compiz, the desktop cube makes it a lot easier, and the wobbly windows just look good. And, the show mouse feature looks a lot better than the one in windows. But, if you have a computer without the capability, then it gets laggy.

[Keyper7]

The enabling of Compiz happened before the platform was ready to support it. Now years later we are stuck with millions of bug reports, infestations of proprietary drivers which in return due to their poor stack usage causes crashes in other parts of the system most notably entirely undebuggable kernel oopses (...) It was enabled to early, it caused a whole boat load of problems and today we are still not at a point where we can comfortably default to a composited environment on most machines. We are only just getting there now with DRI2, KMS and Gallium and these components of the great puzzle are not likely to be fully in place for another year or two on all common hardware configurations.

In the best Matrix Oracle style, I have to ask: would we be already "getting there now" if the early adoption of Compiz had not created a market and a need for faster improvement in this area?

I'm not picking a side, just giving some food for thought.

[gnomeuser]

In the best Matrix Oracle style, I have to ask: would we be already "getting there now" if the early adoption of Compiz had not created a market and a need for faster improvement in this area?

I'm not picking a side, just giving some food for thought.

I believe it would, potentially a bit behind due to a need to solve other problems which have been lingering on the Linux desktop (such as overhauling audio and tracking down driver bugs - something that is only being done now).

Remember Compiz would not be going away and users would still be able to enable it. We knew exactly what needed to be fixed and we had designs for the solutions we needed. There would still be a push to fix these problems, not just for Compiz but to enable hardware accelerated video playback and other actually useful things. We would also need the technology to prototype further technologies such as ideas for GNOME 3.0 so it is limited how much further behind we would be from the current state I would estimate.

Saying that prematurely enabling Compiz by default pushed the technlogy along would in my opinion be false. It would also be besides the point as the people who enabled it were not actually the people who did the work to get us where we are now. They merely pushed the cost off to someone else and took the credit. If you want to push technology further, you have to invest in doing so.

[Skripka]

I agree that some effects are really useful.

For example, drop shadows. It's a very simple effect but it provides a very nice contrast and helps me differentiate overlayed windows.

Another useful effect is the window content preview thingy. If you have lots of same application open, it can be very hard to find the one you need from the panel. With window preview it's easier.

Same thing goes for Alt+Tab preview.

I also like how animations feel with compositing on. Like window fade in/out. It feels more stable than windows appearing from nowhere.

Although not yet possible, compositing for GUI elements (GTK widgets) may be very useful too. Think of how E17 buttons shine when you move the cursor over. It just gives better feedback to the user.

BUT: I don't use compositing. Because simply there is no good implementation yet (at least by my standards :)) (except maybe KDE 4). :popcorn:

Know that E17 doesn't even use hardware graphics acceleration. It can do neat things-but it all goes through main memory/CPU....it is also severely buggy-when anything more than the most basic effect are on.

[cb951303]

Know that E17 doesn't even use hardware graphics acceleration. It can do neat things-but it all goes through main memory/CPU....it is also severely buggy-when anything more than the most basic effect are on.

compositing doesn't really need hardware acceleration
I don'T agree that it's buggy, from my experiances, it's one of the most stable and well optimized piece of code I ever used.

[Skripka]

compositing doesn't really need hardware acceleration
I don'T agree that it's buggy, from my experiances, it's one of the most stable and well optimized piece of code I ever used.

Turn on the Bling module-and watch it hard-lock. ;)

I've used E17 both under Arch, and under *buntu--and on my hardware (see specs) I get low FPS and visible jerkiness in rendering.

[spike_naples]

Compiz is great. period.