rotflol

[dimbulb1024]

I was reading What I hate about Linux (http://www.crunchgear.com/bff/?p=198) (not flaming or by a troll, just the title) and came across this in the comment sections.

Linux is like your gay neighbor who in spite of his peculiarities is just a plain good guy and maybe a better person all around than most of your straight friends and it makes you start to wonder.
IMO, that's classic! http://www.larsonsworld.com/images/e_tongue.gif

[hanzomon4]

Indeed!

[stoodleysnow]

:-?8-[[-X=;:-\":idea::-({|=:lolflag:

[igknighted]

I was reading What I hate about Linux (http://www.crunchgear.com/bff/?p=198) (not flaming or by a troll, just the title) and came across this in the comment sections.

IMO, that's classic! http://www.larsonsworld.com/images/e_tongue.gif

Thats rather offensive... why because he's gay would it be surprising that he is a better person? How is that different than if the joke had been "linux is like you black neighbor who gets in less trouble than your white friends", which I think we would all agree is offensive.

I know this is not the topic really, but I read that and my jaw dropped that (a) someone would say something that discriminatory, and (b) that it would get repeated

[koleoptero]

Amazing... although I'm not laughing...


Thats rather offensive... why because he's gay would it be surprising that he is a better person? How is that different than if the joke had been "linux is like you black neighbor who gets in less trouble than your white friends", which I think we would all agree is offensive.

I know this is not the topic really, but I read that and my jaw dropped that (a) someone would say something that discriminatory, and (b) that it would get repeated

It's not really. I'm gay and I'm not offended.

[maniacmusician]

Amazing... although I'm not laughing...



It's not really. I'm gay and I'm not offended.
probably because you're used to much worse. When you're a minority, a joke that puts you in a positive light, even if it's still in a slightly negative way, seems alright. Maybe even a little funny. My reaction is similar to that of igknighted's, though perhaps not as intense as his/hers.

[igknighted]

Amazing... although I'm not laughing...



It's not really. I'm gay and I'm not offended.

It's not the comment so much as the subconscious thought behind it. I suppose that came out a bit harsh, but it's little things like that which people need to recognize in order for the status quo to change. Believe me, I think that poking a little fun at stereotypes can be a very good thing. But you need to be careful, because theres a fine line between a joke that shows the ridiculous nature of a stereotype and one the merely puts down.

For example, amongst my friends we get tons of laughs about each others religions... myself being catholic there's plenty of material, and I have many jewish friends as well as a few from more fundamentalist christian churches. But we all know that the joke is how all these stereotypes are just myths. I would be very uncomfortable right now making such a crack around an islamic friend due to the fact that right now there would be a reasonable doubt how serious I was about my comment. I felt this was closer to the islamic comment situation. Again, not saying that the poster or the original writer has any ill feelings towards gays, because I didn't get that vibe, but rather it seemed like one of those times where it would have been good to step back and look at what the example showed about popular opinion/stereotype of gays.

My apologies for throwing a heavy discussion into the cafe... i'll leave this be from here.

[svtfmook]

Amazing... although I'm not laughing...



It's not really. I'm gay and I'm not offended.
i find it amazing that non-gay people would find it offensive, yet gay people don't.

lol.

[bash]

If it surprising that non-gay people try to tell the gay guy(s) that he has to fell offended.

[dimbulb1024]

i find it amazing that non-gay people would find it offensive, yet gay people don't.
I posted it after sharing it with my dad, who's gay. We had a fun little chat about it so I thought I would pass it along.

[2cute4u]

Thats rather offensive... why because he's gay would it be surprising that he is a better person? How is that different than if the joke had been "linux is like you black neighbor who gets in less trouble than your white friends", which I think we would all agree is offensive.

I know this is not the topic really, but I read that and my jaw dropped that (a) someone would say something that discriminatory, and (b) that it would get repeated

there is no such thing as something that is offensive, there are only thinks that people choose to be offended by. I choose not to be offended by anything.

[hanzomon4]

Thats rather offensive... why because he's gay would it be surprising that he is a better person? How is that different than if the joke had been "linux is like you black neighbor who gets in less trouble than your white friends", which I think we would all agree is offensive.

I know this is not the topic really, but I read that and my jaw dropped that (a) someone would say something that discriminatory, and (b) that it would get repeated

I wouldn't take offense to a similar joke poking fun at black stereotypes. I can't really explain why, I just don't find it offensive. But I get your point.

[maniacmusician]

i find it amazing that non-gay people would find it offensive, yet gay people don't.

lol.

2 things; first off, you're assuming that everyone who posted in response is not gay, or even part of the larger umbrella of LGBT. Most assuredly a false assumption. Secondly, not all gay people have one voice; they may have the same sexual orientation, but that doesn't mean that they agree on things like this...there's actually a lot of infighting among queer communities on a lot of important issues that they disagree on.

I know plenty of queer people that would laugh at the joke, and just as many that would be offended. I personally don't find the joke to be directly offensive, but I do think it's in slightly bad taste, and the connotations that some people would take away from it are not necessarily positive.


If it surprising that non-gay people try to tell the gay guy(s) that he has to fell offended.

^read my reply to svtfmook. Also, no one was telling anyone that they had to be offended. Some people were offended by it, and others were not. Please don't throw unnecessary flamebait into the discussion.

[fuscia]

i find it amazing that non-gay people would find it offensive, yet gay people don't.

lol.

it's the 'welcome to our planet' mentality.

[maniacmusician]

I wouldn't take offense to a similar joke poking fun at black stereotypes. I can't really explain why, I just don't find it offensive. But I get your point.

Did you hear the audio of Bill O'Reilly talking about how he visited a restaurant in Harlem, and how nice it was? He talked about how all the black people were really nice to him, they didn't swear or cuss or anything, and they didn't break out in fights. I'm not black, but I am a person of color (which doesn't mean much to me; I don't put much stock in it for some reason. probably because I was raised in a white community), and even if I wasn't, I think I'd still find what he said to be a little disturbing.

That situation had much more direct racism and negative implications than this joke, obviously, but I find the connotations to be very similar. Due to the nature of the joke being "funny" and not as direct, it's harder to be directly offended by it, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth that someone could read that and add to their stereotype of the queer community.

[lespaul_rentals]

Thats rather offensive... why because he's gay would it be surprising that he is a better person? How is that different than if the joke had been "linux is like you black neighbor who gets in less trouble than your white friends", which I think we would all agree is offensive.

I know this is not the topic really, but I read that and my jaw dropped that (a) someone would say something that discriminatory, and (b) that it would get repeated

Wow, I do think that's a little over the edge. It's just a joke. And it's not meant to be directly bigoted, it's actually in a sense supporting those who are discriminated against.

People think [people group] are weird...
You notice wierd things about [people group]...
After further investigation, you notice [people group] are actually nice guys...
You then notice that the majority are the ones who are flawed.


Did you hear the audio of Bill O'Reilly talking about how he visited a restaurant in Harlem, and how nice it was? He talked about how all the black people were really nice to him, they didn't swear or cuss or anything, and they didn't break out in fights. I'm not black, but I am a person of color (which doesn't mean much to me; I don't put much stock in it for some reason. probably because I was raised in a white community), and even if I wasn't, I think I'd still find what he said to be a little disturbing.

That situation had much more direct racism and negative implications than this joke, obviously, but I find the connotations to be very similar. Due to the nature of the joke being "funny" and not as direct, it's harder to be directly offended by it, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth that someone could read that and add to their stereotype of the queer community.

Yes, I agree with this more. I wouldn't have said/spread the joke myself, but I don't find it negative that people are laughing about it. Oh, and Bill O'Reilly is a gigantic prick who needs to die.

[hanzomon4]

Did you hear the audio of Bill O'Reilly talking about how he visited a restaurant in Harlem, and how nice it was? He talked about how all the black people were really nice to him, they didn't swear or cuss or anything, and they didn't break out in fights. I'm not black, but I am a person of color (which doesn't mean much to me; I don't put much stock in it for some reason. probably because I was raised in a white community), and even if I wasn't, I think I'd still find what he said to be a little disturbing.

That situation had much more direct racism and negative implications than this joke, obviously, but I find the connotations to be very similar. Due to the nature of the joke being "funny" and not as direct, it's harder to be directly offended by it, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth that someone could read that and add to their stereotype of the queer community.

Yeah I heard that from O'Reilly. I think what disturbed me about that one was the fact that he was serious. I guess I view this joke as satire, more poking fun at the stereotype then the stereotyped. But I can see it from your point of view. Some jokes regarding black(I'm black) stereotypes I find super funny but others do **** me off. It has a lot to do with who said it how they said it. Double standard? Probably, but somethings seem more antagonistic coming from the kkk then they do coming from family guy.

[rune0077]

I know plenty of queer people that would laugh at the joke, and just as many that would be offended. I personally don't find the joke to be directly offensive, but I do think it's in slightly bad taste, and the connotations that some people would take away from it are not necessarily positive.


Okay, first of let me just state that 1) I understand what you're saying and why you're saying it (or I think I understand), and 2) There is a tremendous different between a joke told in a good, light hearted fashion and one told simply to be cruel or to ridicule someone. When I use the word joke in the following, I'll be referring to the first kind.

I to have several queer friends. I also have non-Caucasian friends. I know for a fact, that my immigrant friends tells jokes about "white" people, and that my queer friends makes fun of straight people. So here's the question (and I don't have the answer to this, it's just sort of a philosophical, ethical thought experimental thingy): if gays can make fun of straight people (and I think they can, and should), can straight people also make fun of gay people? Or, does they being a minority give them a special privilege to make fun of the majority?

Well that's my two cents and my question. As said, I have no answers, just rambling a little. I do, however, think, that there is such a thing as too much political correctness, and that in the extreme, it can be just as bad as the opposite.

[maniacmusician]

Yeah I heard that from O'Reilly. I think what disturbed me about that one was the fact that he was serious. I guess I view this joke as satire, more poking fun at the stereotype then the stereotyped. But I can see it from your point of view. Some jokes regarding black(I'm black) stereotypes I find super funny but others do **** me off. It has a lot to do with who said it how they said it. Double standard? Probably, but somethings seem more antagonistic coming from the kkk then they do coming from family guy.
I agree with you absolutely. Satire is great. I just don't know if this is really satire. Like I said, I wasn't offended by the joke, but I just wouldn't want it interpreted the wrong way. But yes...satire is amazing.


Okay, first of let me just state that 1) I understand what you're saying and why you're saying it (or I think I understand), and 2) There is a tremendous different between a joke told in a good, light hearted fashion and one told simply to be cruel or to ridicule someone. When I use the word joke in the following, I'll be referring to the first kind.

I to have several queer friends. I also have non-Caucasian friends. I know for a fact, that my immigrant friends tells jokes about "white" people, and that my queer friends makes fun of straight people. So here's the question (and I don't have the answer to this, it's just sort of a philosophical, ethical thought experimental thingy): if gays can make fun of straight people (and I think they can, and should), can straight people also make fun of gay people? Or, does they being a minority give them a special privilege to make fun of the majority?

Well that's my two cents and my question. As said, I have no answers, just rambling a little. I do, however, think, that there is such a thing as too much political correctness, and that in the extreme, it can be just as bad as the opposite.

I didn't at all mean to imply that this joke was told in a cruel fashion...I don't think that anything I said could give you that impression. I agree that this was a light-hearted joke, my concern is just the negative connotations that people could take away from it. Which is something you have to worry about with a lot of jokes, I suppose.But it's really the subtlety of this joke that's more dangerous. When you read it, you think, "nice analogy, that was really funny and witty," but subconsciously, as something that could be read by thousands of people, it has an underlying tone of "Most gay people are peculiar and not as good human beings as straight people, but oh, look, here's a good one! This is surprising."

So, at that level, I can easily see why it would be offensive to some people. It's not that this joke is dealing directly with gay people, or making good-natured fun out of a "gay" thing; that would be much easier to find funny. It's the fact that this joke, while funny, subtly implies that gay people are weird and generally not good people. Most queer folk can deal a lot easier with jokes that make fun of queer habits and tendencies. Do you see the difference? I guess it's a delicate distinction,

Being a minority doesn't really give queer people any special privileges...rather, it tends to take them away. The thing about minorities is that they're usually not very well understood or accepted, so I think it's a good idea to tread more carefully around the topic of them as a people. Since you're friends with many queer people, you know that it's okay for you guys to make jokes about each other. You can make fun of many aspects of their queer-ness, and they'll take it very well. I just wouldn't make this kind of a joke around any of my queer friends, and none of my friends would make it around me (yes, I am queer-identified as well, just to clear this up) because the insulting or "offending" part is in the undercurrent of the joke and not the joke itself.

Being queer, and a poet, I'm definitely more sensitive to the way that words are used and the images and thoughts they can evoke in people, so I'm always careful about what I say and the way that I act, even for jokes, but I know that it's different from person to person. It's just one of those issues that I've been dealing with for a long time so I don't know if I've explained it properly or if I can...you can make fun of the way I dress all you want, you can even joke to my face that being queer makes me a horrible person and I'm going to hell, and I'll take it in stride, but when you're telling a joke that makes it seem like an accepted fact that most gay people aren't decent people, it's a little harder to laugh at. That's all.

[bash]

Edited: I had a whole long post here, until I noticed that maniacmusician said in his last post that he was gay.

[koleoptero]

Amazing conversation you guys (and girls?). And I'm glad to see so many open-minded people here. It gives me hope. :)

[Tundro Walker]

I posted it after sharing it with my dad, who's gay. We had a fun little chat about it so I thought I would pass it along.

I think the humor comes from the irony, not from the blatant stereotyping. Regardless of progress, most folks still think gay folks run around talking with a lisp, act deviant, etc, etc. And black folks run around causing problems, getting into gang fights, etc, etc.

For Linux, the stereotype is that it's a half-baked OS that you have to piece together with chewing gum, electric tape, and (if you're lucky) some McGuyver'esque geek to help you out.

But, as all of us who know gay people, black people, and use Linux know, the stereotype isn't true all the time. (It's true sometimes, otherwise there wouldn't be a stereotype). So, the irony that Linux operates opposite of its perceived stereotype is what derives humor.

This is pretty much the whole shtick behind Carlos Mencia, Dave Chappelle & Sarah Silverman's comedy....to point out how blatantly stupid a stereotype can be, to the point of it being humorous.

To each their own, though. As everyone mis-quotes Voltaire..."I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight to my dying breath for your right to say it."

Personally, I think it's funny. And pretty sure my gay friends would, too.

[Tundro Walker]

I think what offends me more about this post is that folks are just having a civil discussion about it rather than starting a mouth-frothing, name-calling flame war about it, and getting the whole thread tossed to the Backyard.

You folks are woefully neglecting your civic duty as anonymous netizens and forum posters. For shame!

(Surprised nobody's said they're offended by that comment about wanting Bill O'Reilley to curl up and die. How much of a consensus do you need for something to not be offensive? LOL!)

[dimbulb1024]

I think what offends me more about this post is that folks are just having a civil discussion about it rather than starting a mouth-frothing, name-calling flame war about it, and getting the whole thread tossed to the Backyard.

You folks are woefully neglecting your civic duty as anonymous netizens and forum posters. For shame!)

:lolflag:

[Presto123]

2 things; first off, you're assuming that everyone who posted in response is not gay, or even part of the larger umbrella of LGBT. Most assuredly a false assumption. Secondly, not all gay people have one voice; they may have the same sexual orientation, but that doesn't mean that they agree on things like this...there's actually a lot of infighting among queer communities on a lot of important issues that they disagree on.

I know plenty of queer people that would laugh at the joke, and just as many that would be offended. I personally don't find the joke to be directly offensive, but I do think it's in slightly bad taste, and the connotations that some people would take away from it are not necessarily positive.



^read my reply to svtfmook. Also, no one was telling anyone that they had to be offended. Some people were offended by it, and others were not. Please don't throw unnecessary flamebait into the discussion.

Okay...the usage of one word in this whole thing just is not right in my eyes.

[maniacmusician]

Edited: I had a whole long post here, until I noticed that maniacmusician said in his last post that he was gay.
I said I was queer identified.