operation: Eggshell - Overview

[jingo811]

G a m i n g

Gaming under Linux has long had a bad reputation. Even very experienced Linux users often keep a Windows partition around to dual boot into only for games.
In many ways this problem is due to a chicken-or-egg approach from game developers:
games aren't ported to Linux because not enough people game on the platform, and not enough people game on the platform because there aren't enough games ported to it.


[ chapter 7, page 167 ]

O'Reilly Running Linux 5th edition.



http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x55/bumblebee_066/chicken_or_eggs.jpg

================================================== ==============================================

Agenda

In order to dethrone Microsoft Windows from the desktop world popular commercial games needs to be natively supported on Linux. This thread is a search for the holy grail.

================================================== ==============================================



Ahh screw Battlefield 2, WoW and StarCraft 2 my priority one prayer has just been answered. And I didn't even have to do anything. Some smart ppl is already on the move.
http://apricot.blender.org/
They don't seem to be using OpenGL though but that could probably change in time. Now there's a big incentive to start learning Blender 3D and Python \\:D/ sooo... little time to learn it though :-(

Here's a video to see who the smart ppl are and how they work (not the same team as Apricot). Quite proffessional it's better than I have hoped for. Soon Windows will be going bye bye forever. :twisted:
2008 January 13 - An Outside Perspective
http://peach.blender.org/

Wish I was a programmer or a graphics artist then I could channel my energy into something practical.
Until then for those of us that can't channel that energy we can waste time trying out these Top 10 free Linux 3D games:
http://gamesuy.blogspot.com/2007/12/top-10-free-linux-3d-games.html
http://cyberpunkcafe.com/page.php?81

PS.
I can't help it I'm a smiley addict!








Origin

The key for popular commercial games work natively on Linux is (OpenGL +other open source APIs.)
Apricot Open Game (...improve and validate the open source 3D game creation pipeline, with industry-standard conditions....)
origin of Eggshell (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=557488)




Weekly poll thread links archive ( 2008-2010 )
I will be updating this first page as the outside poll thread links grows.

[DoctorMO]

I reckon the best way is to foster a new games industry dedicated to open source code paths and shared game engines; even shared Creative Commons graphics and sounds for low budget games.

It isn't hard to start a games company when your working from such a rich source of creative talent and shared resources; perhaps it's better to play battle for wesnoth than play Halo3

[antisocialist]

if anyone would like to contribute ideas they can email my new email at
ubuntugam3r@gmail.com
with any ideas. i will attach the list to all of my posts on this thread, as well as listing the information in the post. If anyone would like to help contact me at that email or at ubuntugam3r@gmail.com

thank you for your time

that is my post from the origin thread. It remains true. also, if game developers dont want there games to be open source (changed enough to avoid copyright and redistrubuted for free) then we could go for closed source games. no guarantee it will work, but it is worth a try

ADDED INFO

we could try to get Dell to help us too... no guarantees but having a major corporation on our side couldn't hurt our cause, and it would make their ubuntu computers (assuming they have one with good gfx) sell like hotcakes since they like $200 less that the ******* ones

also, until the end of the year, i know the mayor of Redmond (where microsoft is) and can get microsoft phone numbers hopefully. i say until end of year cuz then a new mayor is getting elected (after 16 years, i can see why she's retiring)

[antisocialist]

RESERVED

for when i put out the current ideas list i will attach it here and it will be below as well.





here it is:

This is the list of ideas I have compiled about how to get major game developers to make games on Ubuntu.

1.Get Dell to help us. While there are no guarantees they will, or that they will see the potential, having a major corporation on our side can't possibly hurt our cause.

2.Mass emailing game companies, once a week, until they acknowledge us. And when I say mass, I mean getting 100,000 people or more to email them within 1 minute of each other, once a week. I can just imagine their faces when their email client says “you have 100,000 new messages” lol

3.Get a website. It will help make planning easier, as well as give us good roots. My idea is “http://www.getubuntugaming.com/”

4.When they make excuses like “we can't port to linux because you have so many different distros” give them links to programs like autopackage.

5.Coming soon, to a store near you.

[jingo811]

.....
.....

we could try to get Dell to help us too... no guarantees but having a major corporation on our side couldn't hurt our cause, and it would make their ubuntu computers (assuming they have one with good gfx) sell like hotcakes since they like $200 less that the ******* ones

also, until the end of the year, i know the mayor of Redmond (where microsoft is) and can get microsoft phone numbers hopefully. i say until end of year cuz then a new mayor is getting elected (after 16 years, i can see why she's retiring)

Excellent initiative antisocialist.
Also don't get me into trouble by making prank calls to Microsoft during this time. I don't have 9 lives like Paris Hilton, I'm only an 8-bit mini Mario with no extra lives or continues to play with.

[antisocialist]

quit capitalizing the first a, its suppose to be lower case

EDIT
also, jingo, thats not asking me to get the phone numbers, just saying it a good idea

[bruce89]

quit capitalizing the first a, its suppose to be lower case

Saying as you don't do capitals at all, I don't think this was quite fair.

[antisocialist]

i can guarantee u she not staying another term (they 4 year terms)
if microsoft uses verizon, we could run up a monster bill sending them text messages from a yahoo email (it can send txt messages)

i dont really have any plans for a phone number, but it cant hurt to have 1

[antisocialist]

Saying as you don't do capitals at all, I don't think this was quite fair.

That doesn't concern you.

Also, it's seeing, not saying. Get your words right. =p

[bruce89]

That doesn't concern you.

Also, it's seeing, not saying. Get your words right. =p

Fair enough.

[antisocialist]

Besides, it is MY name, so i should choose whether or not it has a capital.

[DeadSuperHero]

This may be of interest to you, then.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=465260&highlight=Centrifuge

[Daveski]

...also, if game developers dont want there games to be open source (changed enough to avoid copyright and redistrubuted for free) then we could go for closed source games. no guarantee it will work, but it is worth a try


I suspect large games software companies would not be interested in contributing to Open Source gaming, but there is no reason they can't make money from closed commercial Linux games. It is just a question of scale - the Linux market is still too small for them to invest in. If there were a Linux games console that was well marketed and sold well, then the giant houses would jump into developing new games and porting existing ones.

Perhaps we should all purchase a GP2X http://gp2x.co.uk/
and start growing the market for Linuxy games.

[antisocialist]

we want to play games on our computer, with 16gb of ram, not on a little handheld piece of crap with 64mb of ram

[jingo811]

quit capitalizing the first a, its suppose to be lower case

EDIT
also, jingo, thats not asking me to get the phone numbers, just saying it a good idea

Whoopsies. I blame typo :)



This is the list of ideas I have compiled about how to get major game developers to make games on Ubuntu.

1.Get Dell to help us. While there are no guarantees they will, or that they will see the potential, having a major corporation on our side can't possibly hurt our cause.

3.Get a website. It will help make planning easier, as well as give us good roots. My idea is “http://www.getubuntugaming.com/”


1.)
Do you have a game plan for this already or do you need some help? If so post what ppl can do in order to load-balance your burdens.

3.)
Sounds like a great idea just make a list of small tasks so ppl can volunteer in helping you with building that site if you don't want to carry the whole burden alone.
What about webhosting costs?



we want to play games on our computer, with 16gb of ram, not on a little handheld piece of crap with 64mb of ram
With LinuxBIOS might I add. I want my PC to boot up in less than 5 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuzRsXKm_NQ

[antisocialist]

no plans for either, like i said, they are ideas, not actually executed plans

[jingo811]

My time is sort of tied up until New Year's Celebrations. I can't really help out much in those 2 departments. We will need some more backup from ppl to help out with whatever tasks and think-tanking that needs to be done.

[antisocialist]

if we get i website, i can do some designing, but i dont have a server or a real fast internet connection.

[jingo811]

I'm gonna try and hang out in one of those IRC channels as much as possible in the future. I have a tendency to clutter up threads with too many posts since I don't usually IM or IRC much on a daily basis. I'm still learning how to IRC so don't expect to see me that often.
IM and IRC always break my concentration when I read the Internet so don't expect to see me often even if I know how to IRC :) but I'm gonna try force myself to open up Xchat more often in the future.

Freenode network (irc.freenode.net)
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/chatirc

[antisocialist]

at irc.freenode.net it asks for username and password, how do u sign up

[jingo811]

Every time I startup Xchat it looks like this. Then I choose FreeNode network and click edit and put in the channel #ubuntu then I simply press the Connect button. It has worked so far without having to type in any login/pass.
Regarding your login/pass query I think somebody has already registered your name on IRC that's why it's asking for login/pass. But I'm not sure how that works.

http://i3.tinypic.com/6opua79.png

[antisocialist]

i mean in firefox, at irc.freenode.net

[jingo811]

Agenda
To give the game companies a sign that there's a craving for having their games work natively on Linux. We have planned to email complaints to them here's the list
( We will need a list of addresses to complain to )
Every Sunday for each 52 weeks during 2008.
( Time interval is being discussed, initially I wanted a 5 minutes time window for making our complaints in order to make our voices heard. But that might be unreasonable, having some ppl of the Linux community stay up during sleeping hours in order to send this complaint letter in this small time window. )



We need to discuss the proper time intervals, it's go time very soon.
Let's try setup base camp at here on IRC.

/join #ubuntu.eggshell

[jingo811]

What we discussed on Meeting: 1


1. Time windows
2. Email contents (size)
3. Distro dependencies
4. Company support (Dell, Novell, Canonical, system 76,.....)

1.)
We decided to start things slow and simple the first month in the year 2008.
People email their complaints to their desired game companies each Sunday at any chosen time. There will be 4 Sundays in January thus 4 emails per individual.

Then we decided to tighten the Time windows for each 2-3 timezone vertical segments. In order to make the complaint letters concentrate on a certain duration of the day.

Then for each month that passes the time window will be tighter and tighter until penguins of the Linux community will have to stay up at 4 AM at night :shock:
It's still discussable :)
http://www.timezonecheck.com/




2.)
Keep it short and simple the first 6 months and personalized if possible.
After that time then we can consider adding some more content to our messages.




3.)
Inconclusive.....

Like I explained to some ppl on the origin thread once. If a game company has to assure the Linux market that their ported games will work on all the 100 or so different distros then they will need some 10.000 employees to be able to make such a bold statement. No game company can afford to hire 10.000 employees. Forcing them to agree to support 100 different Linux distros is only going to make them stick with the 1 and only Windows operating system on the market.

My suggestion was to have the various distro developers talk things over and agree on a single Linux distro assembled purely for Linux game developers and gamers.
With such a platform various Universities around the globe will start introducing it into their courses for their programmers. Remember the key was to move from DirectX to OpenGL+various open source API's.
If more programming students had a common Linux environment to work with then the open source force will be much more potent.

With this weapon of switcharoo having future commercial games work on all 100 different Linux distros will be like cake walk. So for now let's only focus on Ubuntu and not all distros. If this weapon of switcharoo can be developed in time the we could ditch Ubuntu and focus on the pure thing instead.




4.)
antisocialist should probably elaborate this part here instead of me. I didn't quite follow the game plan.

[antisocialist]

easy solution for 1, thought of solely by me while i was drinking a cup of milk (i do that a lot, so get used to it)

ok solution for 1

we get someone who wants games on linux and can dev in some programming language that can make a program that will do the following

when users know it is getting close to the time for the emails to be sent, or are going to bed and will be sleeping during the time they will be sent, this program will send an email from their email account to the company they are sending to, and it will be titled and say as they want it to, and be sent at the time specified by the user. it will have ability to do this for all major email providers (Google, yahoo, msn/Hotmail/live, AOL, etc.).

summed up (easy version)
program that supports major email providers like yahoo, aol, hotmail etc
can be set to send an email at a specific time
can send email without the using needing to press "confirm" or "send" or something

must be in a language easy to install/use on ubuntu, such as a .deb package, or a .py python script

4.(jingo wanted me to explain this part)
we need to get commercial support from major players in linux, like novell, canonical, dell system76 etc. and (1) get them to possibly help fund it, but not pay until the product is complete, or make the game dev company sign a contract saying they MUST complete the game by some deadline, so that they dont get the money and say "yay free money" and forget about how they got it. in order to pursuade the major linux players to help fund this, we must help them realise that the number of linux users will grow dramatically if gaming becomes available on linux, therefore they will be making more money.
(2) get them to help us in some way, havent thought of it yet.

5 (new idea) we might benefit from getting some fancy graphics thing that works really well for games, like directx does, so that they will be able to have a better product for linux, because a game with good graphics sells, one with bad graphics doesnt.

[jingo811]

1. That's ingenious, brilliant.....eggcellent. Maybe the idea of the whole world making complaint letters within a 5 minute window isn't so far fetched after all.

4. Now we really need more ppl on board because me too is out of ideas in this department.

5. Then I guess we should contact the OpenGL organization. But I don't think this goal can be met until goal 3 is accomplished. DirectX have a too strong position in Universities and thus the job market.

[antisocialist]

i dont know too much about businesses involved with linux, but if we have a better way for devs to make games we will not only have better games, but we will also have more games from more devs and more people supporting us

[jingo811]

There's probably millions of things we can do and improve. But I feel like we have what we need to deploy my little email complaints idea just needs some final touches.
So the next move for us is to find a way to make sure that we will at least have a critical mass of 1.000 ppl or something.

If only you me and some other 20 ppl is going to email. Then all this work will have been for nothing. We need a way to confirm the critical mass before we actually press on the red button.
It feels kind of stupid that only you and me are showing some signs of life and not anybody else, know what I mean.

[fatality_uk]

I don't want to blow everyones bubble, but a) spamming games dev 52 Sundays a year wont make you top of their xmas card list and b) there's a MUCH easier solution to the problem that DOESN'T involve the logistics akin to Desert Storm 3.

Here it is:

It's so simple you'll slap your forehead and say DOH!

1) Create a BIG GAME PORTING GROUP. Get as MUCH talent as possible from ALL areas of programming, development, testing, distribution etc. You will need C++ devs, C#, Java and sound engineers, graphic artists. The group, lets call it LIGDEV will form the core of future works

I will put my name down first as P.R.I.N.C.E 2 certified project manager and development co-ordinator My C.V. includes management work for Tesco, M.O.D. Arrows F1 team, The London Metropolitan Police Force, Ubisoft, EA Sports etc

2) Formalise the group under a management structure. Project managers, developers, sound artists etc

3) Pick a project. A great one to start is, yes you guessed Quake 3. Port that to Linux as CLOSE as it was to the original. Do NOT release that as a game.

4) Now for the good bit. When you understand some of the technicalities of porting a game to Linux from Native PC code, the group will present it'self to the games developers via online conference. During that meeting you can show what can be done, what talent you have available and the fact that the work can be carried out to a COMMERCIAL level of competancy. No developers is going to release a half assed port, trust me.

5) The "PITCH"
Now the group has a core, structure and talent, you now offer to professionally port any and all games that would be required FREE of charge and subject to N.D.A.s holding etc.

And, you will NOT fail. I have been thinking about doing JUST this over the last 6 months but current work commitments mean I wont be able to start this as a project on my own until at least June of 08.

So I thought I'd put it out there and hopefully combine the great enthuisasm shown above with some business knowledge and management skills.

[Dimitriid]

The irony is that if you wanted to really change things around and play their way, one killer Linux-exclusive games would make heads turn around.

I think even an independent game can accomplish this "killer app" status even if technology-wise is not as advanced ( i.e. the wii and how they manage with really inferior hardware ).

But again, as selfish and elitist as it sounds, we need a Linux exclusive. If somebody wants it on windows they would have to port it themselves instead of having most free game developers waste time doing a windows port too.

[fatality_uk]

The irony is that if you wanted to really change things around and play their way, one killer Linux-exclusive games would make heads turn around.

I think even an independent game can accomplish this "killer app" status even if technology-wise is not as advanced ( i.e. the wii and how they manage with really inferior hardware ).

But again, as selfish and elitist as it sounds, we need a Linux exclusive. If somebody wants it on windows they would have to port it themselves instead of having most free game developers waste time doing a windows port too.

Elitist, I am afraid you are being. A single killer app won't pursuade a die hard Windows gamer to switch to Linux. It might encourage him/her to dual boot, but once that KILLER APP/GAME has been played to death, then what? He's just going to go and switch back to Windows where he knows he will get the latest games, every time. By offering a porting service, he/she will know that a time-line for a new game will be as close to the Windows time-line as possible.

That way, he can have the enourmous benfits of running Linux, while being kept happy with the latest releases.

Try to think of this not in terms of what, YOU as a Linux users wants, but what "ABC Games Dev Corp" will get from having a porting team ready to increase their share in a fast growing sector LINUX!!!!

[Achetar]

Yes. Though I do think 100,000 people e-mailing the president of EA Games once a week might help things along (or get us all convicted of e-mail bombing).

[antisocialist]

if we email them once a week, we will not get in any trouble, as each person is only sending 1 email none of us will be spammers

[antisocialist]

It's so simple you'll slap your forehead and say DOH!

1 how exactly will these devs feed themselves if they do this all for free
2 it takes longer than 1 week to port a directx game to linux, as there is no linux equivalent
3 these "other job commitments" of yours makes me think you work for microsoft or something, therefore you would just be trying to get us to do something stupid, but ive got news for you, were not morons.
4 we thought of that, and theres no way we could assemble a team of devs that big without paying them, and definitely cant expect quality work from them if they dont get paid project after project, which they dont get to choose

[fatality_uk]

if we email them once a week, we will not get in any trouble, as each person is only sending 1 email none of us will be spammers

Ok please feel free to destroy any sense of involvement that a games developer might have right now with wanting to port to Linux.

Your TOTALLY missing the point. You could send a 1,000,000 email DEMANDING Linux games, but until it makes COMMERCIAL sense, then it simply wont happen

I'll let you into a little secret. I had already spoken to some games developers and trust me, there is interest. But you have to go about this in a professional manner. The goal is to have the latest TOP games correct. Bioshock on Ubuntu anyone? Mass emailing them will, and trust me on this, JUST annoy them!!

I guess that I will just go away and create the port group and let you get on with your campagne!

[jingo811]

I think we hit some soft spot with some ppl. :mrgreen: Yeah if you would like to be our P.R.I.N.C.E 2 certified project manager then you're welcome. What can you do? What do you want to do? I'm sure there's a place for someone as talented as you in here.


Yes. Though I do think 100,000 people e-mailing the president of EA Games once a week might help things along (or get us all convicted of e-mail bombing).
What so ppl can't make consecutive complaint letters when not treated with the same intelligence as you show them?
If they give you some pre-written technical template boilshit that answers none of your short and concise questions then why can't you email once again to get a straight answer?


Blizzard currently does not develop for the Linux platform; however, we are keeping an eye on the progress of Linux and may change in the future.
Believe me they weren't talking about technological advancement when they gave me this. They meant the Linux market. So we're giving them the sign they demand. Spamming is the last thing I want ppl to do. Do you think I wrote and discussed in some 146 pages just to resort to simple spamming. That would be like MS quality. Do I look like some Microsoft employee to you?

[fatality_uk]

1 how exactly will these devs feed themselves if they do this all for free
2 it takes longer than 1 week to port a directx game to linux, as there is no linux equivalent
3 these "other job commitments" of yours makes me think you work for microsoft or something, therefore you would just be trying to get us to do something stupid, but ive got news for you, were not morons.
4 we thought of that, and theres no way we could assemble a team of devs that big without paying them, and definitely cant expect quality work from them if they dont get paid project after project, which they dont get to choose



3 these "other job commitments" of yours makes me think you work for microsoft or something, therefore you would just be trying to get us to do something stupid, but ive got news for you, were not morons.

Yes, I am Steve Ballmer LMAO

Of ALL the conspiracy theories I have read on the net, yours has to be #1
Like I said, I'll go and see if I can start this porting group.

Signing out

[barney385]

Fatality makes a valid point guys. Annoying game developers is the wrong avenue IMO.

Let's try to do this from a positive light as we wouldn't want to erroneously turn off the devs.

:popcorn:

[fatality_uk]

Yeah if you would like to be our P.R.I.N.C.E 2 certified project manager then you're welcome. What can you do? What do you want to do? I'm sure there's a place for someone as talented as you in here.

Jingo. I have been involved in IT for over 24 years. I currently head an IT dept with over 20 staff, developers, project managers, business analysts, help desk, infrastructure and support. I have managed projects as far ranging as an AS400 to Web interface programme with direct support/code input from IBM UK on the AS400 side and Microsoft directly with regards to the Windows 2000 server farm that had to be set-up. This all revolved around structure MiddleWare developed with the help of IBM This was an £8,000,000 Police IT project.

Having said all that, I can guarantee that within 10 mins of a first meeting with antisocialist, I'd wanna smack someone :lolflag:

If your interested, I will post you a copy of the outline project as I described above and hope that you can come on board.

I will post an outline of my ideas in a new thread and hopefully, the talent will get involved!!!

[antisocialist]

Jingo. I have been involved in IT for over 24 years. I currently head an IT dept with over 20 staff, developers, project managers, business analysts, help desk, infrastructure and support. I have managed projects as far ranging as an AS400 to Web interface programme with direct support/code input from IBM UK on the AS400 side and Microsoft directly with regards to the Windows 2000 server farm that had to be set-up. This all revolved around structure MiddleWare developed with the help of IBM This was an £8,000,000 Police IT project.

Having said all that, I can guarantee that within 10 mins of a first meeting with antisocialist, I'd wanna smack someone :lolflag:

If your interested, I will post you a copy of the outline project as I described above and hope that you can come on board.

I will post an outline of my ideas in a new thread and hopefully, the talent will get involved!!!
and of those 20+ staff how many work for you for free?

my bet is on 0

also, smacking me isnt a particularly good idea, especially if you cherish life

[tadcan]

I found it interesting the difference between the post the below thread went about talking to a manufacturer and the way you plan to go about it.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=637827

I have misgivings about the response, but haven't got the real world experience to back up what is just a 'bad feeling'.

Suddenly there are small low cost Linux machines being made.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2414535067.html

Which while not made for gaming, could take advantage of games from the 1980s that would appeal to kids. The GP2X was mentioned before and got rejected because its not a desktop gaming machine.

However it sets an important precedent, that combined with the low-powered desktop could get a whole new set of game makers started.

Think of it this way, most of those big game companies began in the 80's with small simple games. As technology grew the successful game companies grew with and pushed the boundaries.

Now you want them to take make there games available for an emerging market of Linux users. What better way then with a full circle back to basics set of laptops that are selling out?

Ok so it doesn't meet your expectations of what you want done for you now. But guys Rome wasn't built in a day. And if you risk being seen as the barbarians at the gates. Not the people showing game companies how to make ALLOT more more.

[jingo811]

Jingo. I have been involved in IT for over 24 years. I currently head an IT dept with over 20 staff, developers, project managers, business analysts, help desk, infrastructure and support. I have managed projects as far ranging as an AS400......
........ This was an £8,000,000 Police IT project.

If your interested, I will post you a copy of the outline project as I described above and hope that you can come on board.

I will post an outline of my ideas in a new thread and hopefully, the talent will get involved!!!

Yes please post a link in here to your new thread. Now we're getting somewhere.
But still I'll have to say this.....how's that ancient expression go again :-k

All roads leads to Rome
Just because I'm not walking the path like everybody else doesn't mean it's the wrong path.

[aaaantoine]

Baby steps, people.

For starters, we should try to get the developers to ONLY use OpenGL instead of Direct3D. That way, the opportunity to easily port games increases. Explain to the developers that this is much better for market penetration.

The good news, here, is that all id Software engines use OpenGL. And if I'm not mistaken, so do the Unreal engines. The bad news is, that's still less than half of the games market.

And seriously, I hope the Xbox does OpenGL, otherwise Microsoft truly are a-holes.

I wouldn't even email them once a week. I would instead email them once a month. And it shouldn't even be on a set day. The emails should be spread throughout the month (still coming from different, unique people). A weekly bombing of emails might do more harm than good, but a steady stream of emails (again, I stress, each should be from a different user) will remind them daily that there are Linux users interested in gaming.

[antisocialist]

im starting to believe that you people are in your own, secretive way, calling me stupid. the fact of the matter is that i am probably one of the smartest people you will ever meet online, i think everything through, and i am stubborn. i dont say random crap just because i think its a fairly good or halfway decent idea.

sure, we could try to talk the devs into starting over from the beginning, but why bother, they are better off starting where we are NOW, not where we were 27 years ago. think about it;
if Albert Einstein was born a genius, he would be probably as advanced as our leading mathematicians are today, and therefore our mathematicians today would be much much more insightful and advanced. If Albert were to of been given a choice to start out normal and know almost nothing, or to start as a genius, he would choose a genius.

the same applies with games and game devs, they could dev at the level they were at 27 years ago, and in 27 years be where windows devs are now, or they could start at the highest possible level and in 27 years be making games that we think of today as impossible. which would you prefer, good games now, and incredible, maybe even unbelievable games later, or crappy games from the past now, and what we have already in 27 years. which would you choose?

[antisocialist]

Just because I'm not walking the path like everybody else doesn't mean it's the wrong path.
wow jingo im impressed, someone other than me finally posted something ingenious on this thread. allow me to elaborate;
the path everyone else walks is using windows, its not great but it does the job (sometimes). thats the path everyone else walks, then there are a few of us who walk a different path (which happens to be linux) and though we walk a different path than everyone else, our path is better, windows fans will say otherwise, but how would they really know, without ever trying linux. thats like saying 2+2 doesnt equal 4. for those of us who have learned math we know otherwise, but someone who has never been taught math wouldnt know.

my point is, you cant say something is wrong until you try it. Galileo said that the earth isnt the center of the universe, but that the sun is. no one else knew this, but they had been told otherwise so they believed otherwise. look where we are now, we know that whoever said the earth is the center of the universe didnt know what they were saying, just like what you are doing by dismissing other peoples ideas without even accepting the possibility that they could be right and you could be a stupid fool. people like you who think that we should all be walking the same path should be using windows, like all the other ignorant fools.

[jingo811]

Yeah so listen ppl my idea of having a steady flow of complaints to game devs who claim there isn't a Linux market was flawed when I first thought of it thus it's still a little flawed at present time.
I already suspected this flaw back when I first started this but you ppl had me sitting and waiting for your responses so long that I forgot it was just a rough sketch. I had to wait and wait so long along with dealing with everything else by myself until I met antisocialist that I forgot and started to think that the idea was like religion.

So it's merely phase 1 of the thinking process doesn't mean it's gonna happen. Phase 2 of this thinking process will be more direct to what purpose we will have when contacting them.
Mass emailing them didn't really have a purpose unless they give us such a purpose now.
Phase 2 will be about a select few of us giving them hard questions. Then our action and reaction will be much easier to map out. When we share those email responses in the forums. Get the drift?

We don't act until we have a written reason given by the Game devs, that should be the homework until we move on to the next Boss in this game ;)
Every action-and-reaction we want to deploy needs to have some sort of written evidence first!

[antisocialist]

well, who shall i start with, which company, i mean?

[bodhi.zazen]

First, why are we should not limit this expectation to games. There is a whole range of business software that simply is not available in Linux.

Second, we should not limit this expectation to software developers. Hardware manufacturers should open source their drivers, example ATI and Nvidia.

Third, the linux community needs to get over the idea of free as in free beer. At the end of the day, developers need to earn a living.


Just a comment about Linux being "free". Yes it is true, but are you willing to contribute to the cause?

By that I only mean to point out that many of the applications in the open source community are written and maintained by developers.

If you like this service consider donating 25-50 $ yearly to your favorite developer, application, ubuntu, whatever. This will keep the Linux community going and is certainly a small investment in return for the service. Think of like contributing to NPR or PBS.

...The beer may be free, but you should tip the bartender 8)

I know it may sound odd, but paying people to code and develop software / hardware is, IMO, "the solution" and we have the power to change all these things, if we are willing to contribute.

Rather then ranting at the closed source camp, we should spend our efforts (and $$) building, and contributing to, a healthy open source community. Rather then buying a closed source product, support open source. Find and fund the (open source) projects that make the hardware / software you need and use.

[antisocialist]

good points, but some of us just cant do that

[bodhi.zazen]

good points, but some of us just cant do that

So are you saying that we can not or should not build such an open source community because some people can not contribute ? That makes no sense to me.

This thread started :



G a m i n g

Gaming under Linux has long had a bad reputation. Even very experienced Linux users often keep a Windows partition around to dual boot into only for games.
In many ways this problem is due to a chicken-or-egg approach from game developers:
games aren't ported to Linux because not enough people game on the platform, and not enough people game on the platform because there aren't enough games ported to it.


[ chapter 7, page 167 ]

O'Reilly Running Linux 5th edition.



Correct me if I am wrong here, but I would think computer games are a luxury item :lolflag:

It would also seem that if you have the $ to buy games you have the $ to contribute to the open source community.

[antisocialist]

linux is a luxury item too, otherwise you can use windows. you dont see me paying for linux, and its because i cant.

i never said i buy games, i have onboard graphics, i cant play games, i just want to expand the community, games will help do that, i also want to give back to the community, this helps me do that

[bodhi.zazen]

linux is a luxury item too,

It is ? Well, it would seem if you can afford luxury items, like Linux, you can afford to contribute.


otherwise you can use windows. you dont see me paying for linux, and its because i cant.

Now I know a smart fellow like yourself is not advocating piracy, so, again, if you can afford to buy windows, you can afford to contribute to open source.


i never said i buy games, i have onboard graphics, i cant play games, i just want to expand the community, games will help do that, i also want to give back to the community, this helps me do that

You can't play games ??? I doubt that. There are hundreds of games you can play with "onboard graphics".

[antisocialist]

ok,allow me to put this out in the open.

i am a 12 year old kid, i dont have a job or a credit card and therefore cant pay the devs

any questions?

also, i dont waste my time playing stupid little games like tetris, i use my psp for gaming

[bodhi.zazen]

12 , What a wonderful age.


Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

I am not trying to imply that you must contribute to open source, but I think the is an opportunity for you to look at your spending habits and consider the impact of your decisions.

I am suggesting you look at how much you spend on games (or hardware, etc), either directly or indirectly (through your parents) in a year. As a young consumer in today's world, learn to look at the social impact of your spending decisions. How were these products made, what is the environmental impact? We live in a global economy / market and these kind of decisions will have an impact on you and your life.

Contributing to games will give you short term entertainment, but you will out grow that. Imagine the impact of contributing to the open source community?

I am offering you a choice.


Morpheus:There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

Let me give you another example, the power of participating in the community. You see, I refurbish old computers, the ones that will not play those nifty games. I install Ubuntu and give them to the truly indigent in the community, the ones who can not afford Linux.

12, What a wonderful age.

[antisocialist]

ok, i spend an average of 10 dollars a year on computers, havent spent any the last 4 years (directly and indirectly)

also, i still dont have a credit card, and my parents think linux is a virus, therefore i cant contribute as far as $ goes, so i contribute in other ways, im writing a guide to the terminal, common used acronyms and what they mean, and when im done im going to write one on customizing x.

i also have school

[bodhi.zazen]

And what, if anything, did we learn from this exercise?

Please indulge me once again.

You see, corporations are like people. Often greedy people, as their function is to make $$ and people invest in them and buy stock expecting to make $$. So how will your interact with them in your E-mail campaign ?

How would you react to me if I flooded your email accounts demanding you contribute to Ubuntu ? That you pay for the open source projects you use ? Accused you of being a rich spoiled brat ?

If I received such emails, well it takes only a second to "block sender", and I bet you would too. So will the corporations your use this approach with. Such an approach will get nowhere fast. Make enemies even.

So, upon further reflection, how do you think corporations will react then if you email them demanding they provide hardware / software to the open source community ?

As a fellow member of the open source community I am asking you not to take a hostile approach with the business community, it is not the Ubuntu way. Such an approach isolates the open source community and is an ineffective method to advocate for Ubuntu.

What will you do if you find a developer or corporation willing to work with the open source community ?

As a fellow member of the open source community I am asking you to contribute to the open source community, and the people and businesses willing to work with us, with what ever resources you have at your disposal. We need to grow a healthy professional community.

So you see, change starts with you.

[antisocialist]

ok, i c that you dont like the current idea, do you have a better one?

[jingo811]

bodhi.zazen >>>



............
.............
.............
I know it may sound odd, but paying people to code and develop software / hardware is, IMO, "the solution" and we have the power to change all these things, if we are willing to contribute.

Rather then ranting at the closed source camp, we should spend our efforts (and $$) building, and contributing to, a healthy open source community. Rather then buying a closed source product, support open source. Find and fund the (open source) projects that make the hardware / software you need and use.

That's a problem that needs to be addressed. If you can't go to a store and buy one of those Linux software then (regular) ppl seem to think it has less reliability compared to some Windows compatible software you can buy from a store.

And I think the open-source devs such as those hanging at sourceforge making wonderful big and small linux applications don't bond with the community enough. They are often out of reach. It's like a commercial company not willing to answer the phone it's bad PR. I know the devs have too little time to waste time with us regular ppl on the net but they need to organize themselves like form a Union or something :) to have non-technical ppl help them out with the PR stuff.

Because I think if ppl are allowed to bond with the devs on some superficial level. Then ppl will have an easier time of letting go off their money to some open-source project. If I have never spoken to a dev that lets me see the human side of things then the money will have trouble leaving my hands.
Do this and open-source economy will supersede the old and slow business methods!






antisocialist >>>



ok,allow me to put this out in the open.

i am a 12 year old kid, i dont have a job or a credit card and therefore cant pay the devs

........


The best donation you can make to a cause in my opinion is contribute brain power. I think that is worth more than donating 1.000 $ to something and then just dust your hands and think that everything will work out by itself.

Ever since I was 12 I always suspected there was something wrong with all those do-good-organizations like Red Cross, Sida, etc. etc. I always wondered why they never reached any goals even with all the millions they get every year. People donate money then just dust off their hands and think that money will solve everything. It doesn't brain power does.

That's what have happened to all those do-good-organizations they get the money and stop using their heads. That's why corruption has allowed itself into them.
Donate to Red Cross and Sida :) I didn't tell ppl not to, they were just the first names I could think of amongst the many 1.000 do-good-organizations.





well, who shall i start with, which company, i mean?

The winds have changed drastically this week. We no longer need to rush things, we no longer need to mass email anybody.
Something better might happen :KS just let me go into *stealth mode* again for a couple weeks or months before we become more active again.

You and me have worked very intensive the last couple of weeks. Sometimes the best solutions to a process comes to you when you stop doing anything and just relax by doing something else.
We deserve a vacation. So just relax for some months or so then you might have some idea that no army in the world can budge when we start the next wave.

[antisocialist]

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=640716

my tutorial on terminal is done

[bodhi.zazen]

ok, i c that you dont like the current idea, do you have a better one?

Yes I do. And it is working.

[Daveski]

http://www.transgaming.com/products/cider/

TransGaming is working with games devs to package Windows games in a new box and sold in shops as Macintosh games. This seems to be a WINE based wrapper round the original (or slightly tweaked) Windows game.

I know there is a lot of opinion about running games under WINE (or its derivatives) as having a negative impact on the development of native Linux games, but what is happening in the Mac world is that games are going to be sold on the highstreet packaged as Mac games. This will quantify the demand for Mac games, and surely the same could be done for Linux - indeed as the underlying technology is virtually identical, I would have though that these 'tweaked' games for Cider compatibility might have a decent chance of running on Linux.

If we could get games sold on the highstreet badged as Linux compatible this would go a long way to seeing what the demand is for people actually spending their money on Linux gaming. This would surely get the games developers more interested in the Linux market.

[antisocialist]

nice infos

[klange]

*Bump*
I think what we need is one really good example of what games on Linux can do. I know I'm already doing my part...

[fatality_uk]

*Bump*
I think what we need is one really good example of what games on Linux can do. I know I'm already doing my part...

There's a LOT of examples. Anyone I introduce to Linux always says, "What about games? I want to be able to frag every once in a while" I have a default list of about 15+ FPS games I can show and usually they are blown away by the quality of what's on offer. Most of which are usually NATIVE Linux apps.

They range from commercial like Enemy Territory Quake Wars to Cube2 and there's a wealth of other genres in between.


And I think the open-source devs such as those hanging at sourceforge making wonderful big and small linux applications don't bond with the community enough. They are often out of reach. It's like a commercial company not willing to answer the phone it's bad PR.

Those devs "hanging" at SourceForge usually work 9-5 for a living. They don't have time to take calls from everyone asking for the latest map to have the start point moved by 200px as it doesn't quite look right, or can you change the colour of the flak jacket to red PLZZ!!

If they DID answer the phone, that's the kind of calls they would get day in and day out and that would just basically put any project they were working on further and further back. And then the VERY same people asking for these changes or for "contact" with the devs would be screaming, "Why is it taking so long to get this game out?"

[jingo811]

Those devs "hanging" at SourceForge usually work 9-5 for a living. They don't have time to take calls from everyone asking for the latest map to have the start point moved by 200px as it doesn't quite look right, or can you change the colour of the flak jacket to red PLZZ!!

If they DID answer the phone, that's the kind of calls they would get day in and day out and that would just basically put any project they were working on further and further back. And then the VERY same people asking for these changes or for "contact" with the devs would be screaming, "Why is it taking so long to get this game out?"

I know devs at SourceForge are working on borrowed time. But they are the experts of whatever application they have programmed. Thus here came my analogy "not answering phones like a company does". Just because they are overworked it wouldn't kill them to be present at their own project forums answering easy one line questions. Within 1-3 weeks time would that be too much to ask for?

My point was if programmers wants to make a living on this open-source fad. Then they better bring some presence if they want to compete with the
"go-to-the-shop-and-buy-Microsoft-compatible-software" business method.
Not answering questions on their personal project forums at SourceForge within 1 week time or giving an explanation why they haven't been able to visit the forums. That is like my analogy "like a company not answering phones" in this case I wasn't talking about an actual phone.
What I also wanted to point out was if those busy programmers can't handle this part then they should bring in some non-technical ppl to handle the PR bits. If they can never be reached then the voluntary PR help will never come to their aid. You see?!


So are you ready to compare notes yet?
I was interested in learning what you planned to do with your special project. Because some of the stuff you mentioned might lead you to a dead end. Maybe if we compare notes I can make you avoid those death traps and thus save you and your ppl some valuable time. Time = Money bla. bla. bla. and all that stuff. :)

[fatality_uk]

I know devs at SourceForge are working on borrowed time. But they are the experts of whatever application they have programmed. Thus here came my analogy "not answering phones like a company does". Just because they are overworked it wouldn't kill them to be present at their own project forums answering easy one line questions. Within 1-3 weeks time would that be too much to ask for?

I understand your frustration. But, look at this image from Inkscape of the class hierarchy http://www.inkscape.org/doc/class-hierarchy.png

Lets say I have a question, a ONE liner about the SPRECT class and if it's possible to include a change to make it do this or that? There might be 12 inter-dependancies with that class. Each would have to be checked for compatibility. Now multiply that one liner by 12! The time and effort required would mean that no other work gets done.

Can I suggest you look at SourceForge and look to see who needs help! Make the developers there an offer of PR assistance! I am sure that after you have spent time learning about their products, they will be happy to have some more hands on deck!


My point was if programmers wants to make a living on this open-source fad. Fad? OpenSource has been around as a concept, if not by name since computing began.


Then they better bring some presence if they want to compete with the
"go-to-the-shop-and-buy-Microsoft-compatible-software" business method.
Not answering questions on their personal project forums at SourceForge within 1 week time or giving an explanation why they haven't been able to visit the forums. That is like my analogy "like a company not answering phones" in this case I wasn't talking about an actual phone.
What I also wanted to point out was if those busy programmers can't handle this part then they should bring in some non-technical ppl to handle the PR bits. If they can never be reached then the voluntary PR help will never come to their aid. You see?!

This is where I think you are not "getting" what some OpenSource development is about. For many of the programmers, artists etc involved, they are not out to put boxes on shelves, but to make a product that fills the need in the market, but maintaining the basic ethos of OpenSource development.


So are you ready to compare notes yet?
I appreciate the offer, but I don't think our goals and objectives are similar. But best of luck with your plans.

[jingo811]

I appreciate the offer, but I don't think our goals and objectives are similar. But best of luck with your plans.

In that case I want to give you these links before you depart and leave us forever. Links that ppl have given to me in previous threads.
Also I want to give you my personal opinions regarding what little you have showed us earlier in your first post about your agenda.

Thoughts that hopefully will make you reach the goals faster.



3) Pick a project.
A great one to start is, yes you guessed Quake 3. Port that to Linux as CLOSE as it was to the original. Do NOT release that as a game.

I'm not so sure that Quake will be any good door opener for the gaming market. Your aim should be no lower than World of Warcaft or StarCraft 2 otherwise you'll just end up like the Loki ppl.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_Software

John Carmack has always been pro OpenGL half the battle has already been won. You need to pick a popular dev company blinded by Microsoft's DirectX with no OpenGL history to make a difference.

John Carmack's id Software is from what I have heard almost synonymous to the Linux scene. Choosing a game from this dev company as your project won't raise much eye brows at the end of the day.

Also it seems like Quake 3 has already been covered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID_Software#Linux





4) Now for the good bit.
When you understand some of the technicalities of porting a game to Linux from Native PC code, the group will present it'self to the games developers via online conference. During that meeting you can show what can be done, what talent you have available and the fact that the work can be carried out to a COMMERCIAL level of competancy. No developers is going to release a half assed port, trust me.

Just wanted to point out in case you didn't know already. The Loki ppl seems to have done what you just described in your agenda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_Software
http://lokigames.com/about/faq.php3

They are out of business now. I have never tested their games but from the looks of things it doesn't look like those ppl have done any half assed ports. Judging by some of the game titles I would say they are very competent on a commercial level.
http://lokigames.com/products/





5) The "PITCH"
Now the group has a core, structure and talent, you now offer to professionally port any and all games that would be required FREE of charge and subject to N.D.A.s holding etc.

And, you will NOT fail. I have been thinking about doing JUST this over the last 6 months but current work commitments mean I wont be able to start this as a project on my own until at least June of 08.

So I thought I'd put it out there and hopefully combine the great enthuisasm shown above with some business knowledge and management skills.

I didn't understand this part and now that you're leaving us. I guess I will never now what you meant. :( Anyhow here's some links to your competition or allies since Loki is no longer with us anymore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Game_Publishing
http://rune-soft.com./about.htm


Hope that this will aid you in your quest so that I can buy Battlefield 2 and StarCraft 2 for Linux some day, cheers. [-o< *praying*

[fatality_uk]

In that case I want to give you these links before you depart and leave us forever. Links that ppl have given to me in previous threads.
Also I want to give you my personal opinions regarding what little you have showed us earlier in your first post about your agenda.

Thoughts that hopefully will make you reach the goals faster.



I'm not so sure that Quake will be any good door opener for the gaming market. Your aim should be no lower than World of Warcaft or StarCraft 2 otherwise you'll just end up like the Loki ppl.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_Software

John Carmack has always been pro OpenGL half the battle has already been won. You need to pick a popular dev company blinded by Microsoft's DirectX with no OpenGL history to make a difference.

John Carmack's id Software is from what I have heard almost synonymous to the Linux scene. Choosing a game from this dev company as your project won't raise much eye brows at the end of the day.

Also it seems like Quake 3 has already been covered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID_Software#Linux





Just wanted to point out in case you didn't know already. The Loki ppl seems to have done what you just described in your agenda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_Software
http://lokigames.com/about/faq.php3

They are out of business now. I have never tested their games but from the looks of things it doesn't look like those ppl have done any half assed ports. Judging by some of the game titles I would say they are very competent on a commercial level.
http://lokigames.com/products/





I didn't understand this part and now that you're leaving us. I guess I will never now what you meant. :( Anyhow here's some links to your competition or allies since Loki is no longer with us anymore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Game_Publishing
http://rune-soft.com./about.htm


Hope that this will aid you in your quest so that I can buy Battlefield 2 and StarCraft 2 for Linux some day, cheers. [-o< *praying*

Hi Jingo
I am well aware who Loki were ;) Loki software had an inherant problem. Linux wasn't ready for it yet! This doesn't detract from the work Loki did, it was amazing, but the desktop market for Linux, which is links to the games development area, wasn't sufficiently mature in 98, let alone 2002.

If you look at todays distros, Ubuntu, PCLOS, Fedora 8, Linspire etc, they are geared towards a "plug and play" approach. An easy, user friendly environment where having to understand bash scripting get a modem to work is not required. They usually work from the box. That's where Linux is heading IMHO. We all know that the last two releases of Ubuntu have been praised for just this approach. Much better hardware support means that Linux is a viable desktop OS and could be a direct competitors for MS given the right marketing approach.

The market share for Linux during that period was so small, that it really was an "enthusiasts" project. Now we are looking at a different landscape.

Quake 3 was used as an example!! I am not suggesting we go backwards

Leaving you??? You know something I don't. A contract out for me you kinow about lol

Thanks for the links, but they have been im my favourties for quite a while :) The project, if it goes ahead, it wont be solely a games development team. When I have more time and details in the new year I'll try and remember to PM you and hopefully show you where I am trying to take this thing.

I am currently in Poland which is a hoot. I love coming here. I seem to be able to really get to take time for my own projects. When I am back in the UK, work seems 24/7 point being, that I am working on a mission statement as we speak ;)

p.s. Does anyone know anything about enabling PCMCIA EDGE datacards :D I am using my brother in laws laptop out here in countryside and it's pretty cool. I stuck it into my laptop and lspci's it and yes it saw it by heck but I couldnt configure it as a modem

[antisocialist]

why is it that every single time i go on vacation or dont check my email for a week something important happens?

i try learning c on my xmas vacation for 1 WEEK and now all this has happened...

anyway, you both have some interesting points, but to kill most of the new ideas off;

1where do you plan to get this big dream team of devs to port games

2how do you expect to have them all be able to work for free, working a couple hours after work isnt sufficient for porting games

3quit doing important stuff while im on vacation

4(im thinking about it, i just got up like 5 mins ago)

[fatality_uk]

why is it that every single time i go on vacation or dont check my email for a week something important happens?

i try learning c on my xmas vacation for 1 WEEK and now all this has happened...

1where do you plan to get this big dream team of devs to port games

2how do you expect to have them all be able to work for free, working a couple hours after work isnt sufficient for porting games

3quit doing important stuff while im on vacation

4(im thinking about it, i just got up like 5 mins ago)

antisocialist
but to kill most of the new ideas off Hmm

Important!!! Don't know id go that far.

1) From your slightly "snearing" tone, I assume you think this can't be done. Trust me, this isn't a case of "build it and they will come!! I have already spoken to a few programmers and am working on, well a method to do what I am planning. If this project goes forward, all will be revealed.

2) Free. Perhaps I misrepresented myself. I would never expect people to work for free. These are commercial companies we would be dealing with and as such, commercial constructs will be put in place. I don't really want to go into the delivery model on this forum. It's not something for this arena yet.

3) Quit going on vacation then :)

[antisocialist]

no i like vacation, i get too sleep in, play video games all day, and do whatever else suits my fancy

also, i didnt mean to be snobbish, but if we just think of an idea and go for it we wont get very far if it its a bad idea.

also, where do you plan to get all this money you speak of to pay these devs you speak of?

[jingo811]

antisocialist Hmm

Important!!! Don't know id go that far.

1) From your slightly "snearing" tone, I assume you think this can't be done. Trust me, this isn't a case of "build it and they will come!! I have already spoken to a few programmers and am working on, well a method to do what I am planning. If this project goes forward, all will be revealed.

2) Free. Perhaps I misrepresented myself. I would never expect people to work for free. These are commercial companies we would be dealing with and as such, commercial constructs will be put in place. I don't really want to go into the delivery model on this forum. It's not something for this arena yet.



Great so when do you predict I can buy some games from you when you have spoken to your ppl. 2009, 2010, 2011? :) I need something fun for my Ubuntu and preferably games that doesn't require Duo Core in order to run. I just wasted money on Call of Duty 4 it crashes all the time because I don't want to upgrade my good old trusty work horse.

[antisocialist]

Great so when do you predict I can buy some games from you when you have spoken to your ppl. 2009, 2010, 2011? :) I need something fun for my Ubuntu and preferably games that doesn't require Duo Core in order to run. I just wasted money on Call of Duty 4 it crashes all the time because I don't want to upgrade my good old trusty work horse.

thats why you download a pirated version of the game before you buy it, to make sure it works

[jingo811]

I ran the Demo before buying and it crashed on me in the menu every time after one successful game. After that I could never get past the friggin menu even when no heavy graphics was used. I just thought it was some menu bug. Hoping that the real thing would have patched things properly. I was wrong. :( they don't know how to make working games for the masses.

[antisocialist]

you should of just asked on the forums if anyone has successfully run it

EDIT
you want entertainment, get the q games, or get openarena

[Deep fried ice-cream]

Just wondering, but wouldnt quantity not quality do better? Im not meaning create a amarda of rubbish, but if someone sees a lone game that runs in linux they're just going to laugh at it, if the see 5 all sitting in a row, they're going to wounder what the hell is going on, most likely they'll ask their frends. and as far as I can see, the more people wondering what Linux and Linux games are, the better?

[Ripfox]

thats why you download a pirated version of the game before you buy it, to make sure it works

[-X don't advocate piracy here please...

[Deep fried ice-cream]

What does it matter if you pirate somthing if you buy it if it works?

[Daveski]

What does it matter if you pirate somthing if you buy it if it works?

Honestly officer, I didn't steal it, I just borrowed it.

[jingo811]

Ahh screw Battlefield 2, WoW and StarCraft 2 my priority one prayer has just been answered. And I didn't even have to do anything. Some smart ppl is already on the move.
http://apricot.blender.org/
They don't seem to be using OpenGL though but that could probably change in time. Now there's a big incentive to start learning Blender 3D and Python \\:D/ sooo... little time to learn it though :(

Here's a video to see who the smart ppl are and how they work (not the same team as Apricot). Quite proffessional it's better than I have hoped for. Soon Windows will be going bye bye forever. :twisted:
http://peach.blender.org/

Wish I was a programmer or a graphics artist then I could channel my energy into something practical.
Until then for those of us that can't channel that energy we can waste time trying out these Top 10 free Linux 3D games:
http://gamesuy.blogspot.com/2007/12/top-10-free-linux-3d-games.html

PS.
I can't help it I'm a smiley addict!

[antisocialist]

that list sucks its missing the 3 best games for linux that are free, openarena (http://www.openarena.ws) return to castle wolfenstein, and urban terror

its also missing cube2/sauerbraten, but i never liked that anyway, just has good gfx

[Omnios]

K a big issue for game developers and Companies is game security and pirate protection. They have spend huge amounts of money on this over the years.

The registry in windows is a huge problem but it did one thing that bushed windows to dominance. It allowed for such things as timed evaluation for share ware and also allowed for game protection. Though cracks etc could buy pass this generally the marketplace was controlled in a manner that allowed software and game developers to control there products.

Now thought the windows registry sucks and is a big reason for a lot of there problems it still allows them to control the development marketplace that attracts developers.

Now in now way should we have a registry but it may be possible to implement some protection stuff for commercial software pertaining to games etc. Could sort of be a Xsever type thing just for games.

[jingo811]

Regarding the pirating worries for game companies. Making a good game isn't enough you have to think about the social values that can be added. Then more ppl is more likely to buy a game.

Like WoW ppl into that sort of thing need to buy the real thing to participate and do whatever ppl do in WoW.
The old StarCraft series proppelled by the Koreans, without the real thing you can't patch the game into the 7-10 different patch versions enabling you to watch old Replays. (Even though the latest patch stops you from seeing any version Replay, the thought is still good)

These sort of things is worth more than the millions game-unions waste on finding the perfect DRM protections. It's a waste of money and time. Give the money to me instead then I can waste those millions for them in a better way :)

[jingo811]

Hahaha this is the funniest game I've played for years "Frets on Fire" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50XAHx2sPYQ&feature=related) :guitar:

[antisocialist]

isnt frets on fire like guitar hero?

anyway you got some good points there, but those millions would be better spent with me, buying google stocks

[bufsabre666]

frets on fire rocks more than guitar hero for the fact that you can import songs, i have like 400 songs on mine under windows, i dont know about the ubuntu world but theres a file to make FoF look just like guitar hero on windows

its even more fun if you take the guitar hero guitar and use it cause my keyboard is prolly the worst one ever for this game

[jingo811]

What's the link to get more songs and levels for FoF? Too lazy to browse the website.

[antisocialist]

i think you can use your own music

[jingo811]

I did some *whining* for the Linux community at irc #winehq now go help the devs at Wine Project they are undermanned!
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=704647