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View Full Version : Will ubuntu ever be easy?



arpalermo
November 17th, 2007, 06:31 PM
I just dont get it. How can anything be so impossible. I love the idea of open source and only use open source software on my windows pc. But i cant get ubuntu or any other distro to work. Ive tried it on about 6 computers ive owned, maybe 20 computers i work with... i work with computers so im not completely computer illeterate but i just dont get ubuntu. Every day theres some problem, i have to do this, do that... it never just works. Is it just me? Or does ubuntu just suck? Will anyone ever bother to make it simple and easy, or at least as easy as windows?

mali2297
November 17th, 2007, 06:48 PM
Do you have some particular problem that you can't solve?
Please specify and we will try to help.

mellowd
November 17th, 2007, 06:50 PM
It as just as easy. If you are having a specific problem let us know and we can try and assist

Bastardbugger
November 17th, 2007, 06:53 PM
It really depends upon your perspective. From time to time I'm asked to fix or build computers, I find installing Windows incredibly tedious and time consuming. The neccessary service packs and updates can take forever to download and install.
Finding and installing codecs in Windows difficult never mind the necessary virus scanners and anti-trojan programs and such like.
From my point of view I find Windows hopelessly difficult and long winded to install.
I find Ubuntu incredibly easy and quick to install. No problem at all with codecs, just use medibuntu. The updates and fewer and seamless to install. And as for Microsoft viruses and Trojans ....... well it's Linux !
I think it all boils down to what you are used to. If you are flexible in mind and willing to apply yourself to learning a new operating system, you will never look back.
After all if an old duffer like me can manage it I'll bet you can ....... if you try.

defishguy
November 17th, 2007, 06:55 PM
I'm like you in that I wish it were a perfect world. I could install XP right now on my laptop and the video, audio and network drivers would have to be located and installed before it would be usable. I'd have to deal with virii, spyware, and updates that exceed the bits that were on the original CD to begin with. I could choose Vista, or as I like to call it "ME Second Edition". I have a flash drive that is sixty days old that doesn't work in Vista at all, but it does in XP or Gutsy. I could use ME Second Edition and accept the fact that to delete an OS placed shortcut on the desktop I have to be tolerant of [ ] Cancel or [ ] Allow questions. I could install Vista and tolerate shorter battery life, and slower performance than Gutsy gives me.

I love the idea of open source too. I have to virtualize XP to get somethings done. But even though Gutsy isn't perfect (I have to hold tinfoil during the light of a full moon on a Thursday to get power management to work somtimes) you have to appreciate that all operating systems suck. They all do. OS X is by far the best example of usability as long as it's usable on a Mac. Ubuntu isn't really all that different than Windows as far as functionality and reliability. Don't believe me? Check out the MS knowledge base and you'll discover a veritable cornucopia of bugs.

We all hope that we can get a better Ubuntu in the next release. It sucks. But it sucks LESS than the alternatives do and it has the perk of freedom with it too! We'd like to help you with the problems, and we'd like to have you as part of the community.

In short you are absolutely right and if Ubuntu doesn't work for you today then by all means use anything you want to. Come back every six months to see what's working and what isn't and some day you'll discover that everything will just work.

tetrafuran
November 17th, 2007, 06:55 PM
That's the way it used to be for me when I started using windows 3.11. Every day something was wrong and I had lots of problems. As I learned more by the years, I began to understand how to modify the system and solve most of those problems. Then came the year 95, the era of ISDN cards, 3d graphics, semi-eternal load times and blue screens. The number of problems doubled once again. After living with it and it's followers for several years I slowly began to get accustomed to it and eventually felt like home I even forgot how terrible it was in the beginning.

Today I'm writing the same story, with the exception that windows is replaced with Linux. All new things tend to cause problems at first before you learn how to deal with it. Learning to live with a new thing takes time. When I started using windows some time in the 90's everything was hard, strange and unknown. At that point I didn't have any background knowledge so everything was new and filled with problems. Fortunately years of stubborn computing payed off eventually. Also my windows experience wasn't entirely wasted when I started using Ubuntu. Some things work the same way, but a lot still remains to be learned. Computers just are this way no matter if you are using Ubuntu or windows. Both have their weak points so patience is needed. Don't be blind to either one's weaknesses or strengths.

Doing basic stuff tends to be easy in both OS's and going below the surface gives the real challenge no matter which OS you are using. Both require knowledge and logics. In windows you can get really far with only logics, but going deeper into linux requires more knowledge IMO. Once you get the necessary level of knowledge you can do really nice things in linux, but this won't happen just like that. It takes time and effort just as it took learning to properly utilize windows.

toupeiro
November 17th, 2007, 06:56 PM
Yes, please define "work" You can't install it? You can't get it on a network? You can't find an application for your data? If you're trying to sell us that its more difficult than windows to do any of these things, I'm afraid you're selling to the wrong audience. :) We would be happy to help you, but you have to be more clear.

robrmd9
November 17th, 2007, 07:03 PM
Yea, whining about Ubuntu won't help it get better, and it certainly won't help resolve your problems. You made a thread in "General Help," so please post your problem so we can assist you!

teasum
November 17th, 2007, 07:05 PM
But i cant get ubuntu or any other distro to work.

Point of logic: If you can't get any distro to work, isn't the problem your computer rather than Ubuntu? My mom has a laptop that is somehow linux-intolerant--OpenSUSE, Ubuntu, even Puppy linux all fail to run.


Ive tried it on about 6 computers ive owned, maybe 20 computers i work with... i work with computers so im not completely computer illeterate but i just dont get ubuntu.

So, do other linux distributions work on these computers?


Every day theres some problem, i have to do this, do that... it never just works.

Such as....?


Is it just me? Or does ubuntu just suck? Will anyone ever bother to make it simple and easy, or at least as easy as windows?

Ok, now you're just trying to provoke us. Not gonna happen. Ask for help, and you'll get it!

toupeiro
November 17th, 2007, 07:07 PM
. Both require knowledge and logics. In windows you can get really far with only logics, but going deeper into linux requires more knowledge IMO. .


I respect your opion, but my opinion strongly differs. I've managed thousands of windows systems and UNIX/Linux systems alike over the last ten years, on servers and at the desktop, and I've had to get pretty deep into all of them several times. From almost every facet, UNIX/Linux problems have quicker, and easier resolutions, and generally fewer problems.

For example, In windows, I find no logic in something as non-relative as a GUID.. a.k.a. {AC76BA86-1033-F400-7760-100000000002}, as being the pointer for the operating system to Adobe Acrobat 7.0. You have to KNOW what to look for.

There is very little that is logical about windows under the hood. You've either gotten used to it, or have honed skills at finding needles in haystacks, but there is little logical structure to it anymore. If you have supported both for a length of time, you will come to appreciate the ease and logic that linux brings back to the game.

Jense
November 17th, 2007, 07:14 PM
I switched to Ubuntu about six month ago and just spent two nights getting gutsy to work probperly on my desktop and laptop - and for the first time ever both my computers work just the way I want them to. Okay, there are still some little things I need to figure out, like how to get the nvidia display drivers to work in VirtualBox in XP. The main difference I found in Ubuntu was, that error messages suddenly made sense! They even pointed me in the right direction. No "Exception (which was often enough quite regularry) error on adress...". Rather a funny comment about the manufacturer of some hardware I use or something simular. Getting Ubuntu to work is work, but it pays of. In the past six month I learned loads of stuff about Computers and OS that I didn't learn in 15 years using Microsoft Products. Really I love it.
One other major difference in both OS is: Where Linux tries to provide compatiblity, Windows tries to prevent it. Not so long ago, it was extremly frustrating to get Win, Mac and Linux to work together in a Network. Still, as far as XP goes, the only possibility I know is to create a Windows network and get the other OS to work with that. So if you just want to work and don't worry about the OS - switch to Mac OSX. If you want to learn something, then ask or take a look if somebody else hasn't got the same problem and maybe found the solution. Mostly it's much easier to fix then you might think.

tetrafuran
November 17th, 2007, 08:46 PM
I respect your opion, but my opinion strongly differs. I've managed thousands of windows systems and UNIX/Linux systems alike over the last ten years, --

Thanky you for the comment. It appears that you have more experience and knowledge than I do. I never went that deep into serious administrative work and therefore my point of view is narrower. My opinion was indeed just an opinion and it was based more on desktop usage and configuring and solving common and less common issues. As my experience in linux increases, I may have to change some opinions, but this is how I see it at the moment.

Running my normal affairs in linux has lead me to edit several system files, use the terminal quite frequently. In fact I even made alt+t as shortcut for starting the terminal. In windows I never ever had to do anything even close to this when doing something "normal". Doing the strange "once in a lifetime" tricks of course involved unusual methods. I just got the feeling that doing normal configuring and installing in ubuntu is either so easy that a brain dead pebble could do it or it's as hard as the unusual and strange stuff in windows. Of course in windows my hands were really tied when it comes to serious configuring and modifying, but that's another topic entirely.

W = windows, U = ubuntu

Normal everyday activities such as reading mail, surfing the web, typing texts etc.
W: easy or very easy
U: easy or very easy

Installing software
W: easy. Next next next next finish and that's it.
U: Mostly it's unbelievably easy, but occasionally challenging. Mostly any windows user could handle it and appreciate ubuntu, but if it gets tough, then patience and determination will be required and rewarded.

Installing hardware
W-95: nightmare. requires knowledge, luck and prayers.
W-XP: Easy or average. In the case of average challenge, RTFM helps.
U: Mostly easy. If it isn't, then a lot of knowledge is required.

crashing
W-95. Ever heard of compulsive ctrl+s neurosis disorder? When x-ploder goes down, it takes everyone down with it. No witnesses. I'll save every minute just in cas....
WXP: It happens, but mostly after waiting a moment it clears out automatically and the crash is doesn't require a reboot.

Solving "normal" problems such as: My printer doesn't work etc.
W: Mostly easy. Occasionally challenging.
U: Usually challenging. Requires some knowledge of the terminal several and system files etc.

Solving serious problems
W: Only for the pro's. Better just format c and re-install if you're not up for it.
U: Haven't tried it yet. Time will tell what it's like.

I would like to see your version of this comparison.

aysiu
November 17th, 2007, 09:05 PM
Please specify and we will try to help.


If you are having a specific problem let us know and we can try and assist


We would be happy to help you, but you have to be more clear.


You made a thread in "General Help," so please post your problem so we can assist you! Since the thread is one of these vague "Ubuntu isn't easy" threads, I've moved it out of General Help and into Recurring Discussions.

To the original poster, if you want help, post a thread in General Help or Absolute Beginner asking for help with a specific problem. Do not complain or say Ubuntu isn't easy to use. If you want help, ask for it.

If you want to complain about Ubuntu and not get help, you can keep posting in the current thread.

Surgeon General
November 17th, 2007, 09:17 PM
ubuntu is already easy enough. what it needs, and the rest of the linux distro, is consistency and coherence. there's too many ways to do something. TIMTOWDI. :-) and it confuses the uninitiated.

Frak
November 17th, 2007, 09:18 PM
To compare something such as an OS is relative to the user.

brunoscunha
November 17th, 2007, 09:32 PM
I've been a windows for quite some years, then I started with linux through suse 5.2. AT that time that was a challenge. Since 7.04 was out I absolutely igrated from winxp to ubuntu and so far no regrets at all. I'm between noob and power user. AT work almost all servers run linux and problems that occour are mainly not related to linux. So in my opinion ubuntu and linux in general is getting easier and easier.
My bet is soon it will be as easy as windows, But f you want get your hands dirty you also have the chance

ZipoTe
November 17th, 2007, 09:43 PM
What's the purpose of this post? You don't like ubuntu? Well, it's easy, go back to windows. Changing to a new OS means changing the way you instal software and hardware... Ubuntu is not Windows and it will never be, keep this in your mind. So you can do two things:

1-Cry because your messenger live does not work :(
2-Start a new thread asking for help. Sure you will solve your problems.

HermanAB
November 17th, 2007, 09:48 PM
Ubuntu is *not* the easiest Linux. It is middle of the road. Ubuntu will eventually be easy. However, if you cannot wait, then switch to Puppy Linux (super easy) or Mandriva (very easy) and stop moaning.

-grubby
November 17th, 2007, 09:59 PM
Ubuntu is *not* the easiest Linux. It is middle of the road. Ubuntu will eventually be easy. However, if you cannot wait, then switch to Puppy Linux (super easy) or Mandriva (very easy) and stop moaning.

what? Puppy Linux is supposed to be a lightweight Linux distro. Nowhere on their site do I see it meant as an easy Linux distro. you have to set up your own internet and audio for goodness sake!

inversekinetix
November 19th, 2007, 01:25 AM
Ubuntu is a nightmare when you can't get help for simple things. It's even worse when someone helps you my spouting a bunch of code and then treats you like an idiot because you did't know what a bash command was.

I also think that the login screen should mention something about the sessions facility. I think many users coming from windows would find kde a better environment to get started in.

Frak
November 19th, 2007, 04:19 AM
Ubuntu is a nightmare when you can't get help for simple things. It's even worse when someone helps you my spouting a bunch of code and then treats you like an idiot because you did't know what a bash command was.

I also think that the login screen should mention something about the sessions facility. I think many users coming from windows would find kde a better environment to get started in.
Who did that? Also, code is our way of saying, "Let us fix it for you, and quickly".

Dimitriid
November 19th, 2007, 05:02 AM
Take a page from the Microsoft book: If it gets any easier, it gets more difficult in the long run.

I just don't think computers will ever "just work" unless they become narrow, limited appliances.

happysmileman
November 21st, 2007, 11:11 PM
I find Linux to be more oriented on working well than being easy to fix. Whereas Windows is a bunch of crap in a box that can be fixed fairly easily, but requires you to fix it after every bump