A question about Bass Amps

[rowanparker]

Hello,

I know many of you are guitarists (and some bassists) so I would like to ask a question related to bass amps (I'm guessing guitarists can answer as well as it is very similar).

If i was to buy a mid-range bass amp combo (say... 65watt) would I later be able to buy say a 100watt cab to make it 165 watt or does it not work like that? Does it depend on the combo, cab or what?

Thanks guys,
I am bassist but I don't have a clue :)

[steveneddy]

The rating of the cabinet is the amount of power that it can handle. If you need more power, get a bigger amp.

Word of advice. Amps run cooler the farther up you turn them, so if you are only playing in your apartment, you may want a lower powered amp (less than 65 watts) or even one with a headphone jack.

If you play out in clubs, buy a good amp with at least 100 watts. You will get better performance from a 4-10" cabinet than one 15".

If your band plays through PA at gigs, get an amp that fills up the stage volume nicely without overpowering anybody and either use a hi z to low z splitter and send a low z signal to the board for house sound or get a newer amp with moderate power and a built in low z output. The low z out looks like a microphone output, three pins in a round hole.

But be honest with yourself. If you only play at home or in the garage, buy a low powered amp and you will become more popular with your neighbors.

I play professionally and I use a 30 watt amp for large gigs and anything smaller than 300 seat houses I take two 8-12 watt tube amps, crank them up with an SM57 in front of them and wail away.

My bass player uses a 50 watt tube amp for his stage rig, points it sideways towards the band and uses the low z out of his amp. When we play small halls, clubs or rehearse, he just plugs into the board with a splitter and runs a DBX compressor and puts his sound through the monitors.

Good luck.

[RideP2]

Hi, by cab you're talking about just a box with speakers right? If that's the case, I'm pretty sure it would still be 65 watt, since your combo can't put out more then it's rated for. I could be wrong, but I think the cab being 100watt is just how much it will take.

EDIT: Took so long to post the other guy posted first. He pretty much said what I said and more.

[epimer]

It doesn't work like that, I'm afraid.

There are bass combos you can get which allow you to add an extension cab. Off the top of my head, Ashdown and Laney combos generally let you do this. Note that this doesn't increase the power (in watts) of your setup - just means you have more inches of speaker doing the work.

It is important to make sure that you stick to the manufacturer's guidelines, though; if you try to add a cab onto a combo which wasn't designed for it, you could damage (or kill!) your amp.

So: yes you can (with caveats), and no it doesn't work like that :)

[rowanparker]

Thanks guys, that helps a lot.

I am going to be gigging (done 3 gigs now using someone elses amp but I can't do that for ever). Both our guitarists are currently using 150watt amps (although one amp has a 150watt cab too, does this mean its twice as loud or what is the point of using the cab?). So would a 150watt combo be all right? Would it be better to get a more powerful head and then have an appropriate cab? Any reccommendations from people considering I don't have a lot of money.

[HermanAB]

Hmm, I would recommend at least a 400W RMS MOSFET amplifier (I use 600W). MOSFET and Thermionic valve amplifiers sound the same and provide even harmonic distortion. A valve amplifier is heavy and can break more easily (and expensive for 50 year old technology) and sounds the same as a MOSFET, so for a bass guitar, there is no point in looking at valves.

Stay away from bipolar transistor designs, since they tend to clip and give odd harmonic distortion which sounds especially bad on a bass guitar. It is possible to design a bipolar that will clip soft, same as a MOSFET, but you won't know (unless you design it yourself).

Note that is Root Mean Square (RMS) not Peak Music Power, which means squat...

Even more important are the speakers. You would need at least 12 inch woofers, possibly 15 inch if you are strong enough (12 inch speakers also cost a lot less). Two to four of those should do the trick for most clubs.

Cheers,

Herman

[rowanparker]

Thanks Herman.

I searched for 400W RMS MOSFET and couldn't find much. Is it possible to get them second hand anywhere (ebay?) as I doubt they'd be affordable. If not, anything cheaper? (I've got about £250/$500, fingers crossed).

[sparks0548]

If you want a good bass amp with alot of horsepower for the price range you're talking about I would say to shop Carvin.

www.carvin.com

I bought Red Eye Bass Amp from them about 6 to 7 years ago for about $800. The Red Eye line is no longer available but I did find this beauty called the BR610 which is similar to the Red Eye.

A whopping 600 watt output for $549. The best part about carvin besides the fact they ship direct, and hand make their product is that I read they have a 1% return rate on all their products.

I was shopping around for a handmade LB75 bass from them where the entire instrument is made of like 5 different woods. The neck is pure swamp ash and since I am left handed it was a better deal since they hand make the right and left handed instruments.

I'd check them out, they are definitely a good buy. I priced the same type of cabinet at the guitar stores and would have probably blown about $3000 on similiar gear.

I've played clubs, and outdoor ampitheaters with this thing and it is still running like new.

Good luck in your search. :guitar:

[Fred_E _krugar]

Well I use a Crate BT220 and the guys keep telling me to turn down lol

[rowanparker]

Thanks guys.
I'll have a look around.

I'll post back here before I buy anything (could be a while).

[Bezmotivnik]

Thanks guys.
The basic rule of thumb is that the bassist should have three times the nominal amp output in watts as the guitarist. The reasons for this are somewhat more complicated than the usual explanations you'll receive and I won't go into them here.

Volume is more a matter of speaker efficiency than amp wattage.

All other things being equal (net impedance, driver SPL, etc.) adding speakers adds volume.

Some of my personal bass amp gear:

One (http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.php?partno=4420300000)
Two (http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.php?partno=4410500800)
Three (http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.php?partno=4400700000)
Four (http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.php?partno=4400500000)
Five (http://ampeg.com/products/diamondbluebass/b100r/index.html)
Six (http://ampeg.com/products/bassamp/ba112/index.html)
Seven (http://ampeg.com/products/classic/svt450h/index.html)

[rowanparker]

The basic rule of thumb is that the bassist should have three times the nominal amp output in watts as the guitarist. The reasons for this are somewhat more complicated than the usual explanations you'll receive and I won't go into them here.

Volume is more a matter of speaker efficiency than amp wattage.

All other things being equal (net impedance, driver SPL, etc.) adding speakers adds volume.

Some of my personal bass amp gear:

One (http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.php?partno=4420300000)
Two (http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.php?partno=4410500800)
Three (http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.php?partno=4400700000)
Four (http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.php?partno=4400500000)
Five (http://ampeg.com/products/diamondbluebass/b100r/index.html)
Six (http://ampeg.com/products/bassamp/ba112/index.html)
Seven (http://ampeg.com/products/classic/svt450h/index.html)
I envy you. ;)
I wish I could afford that.

I'm slowly understanding more :)
Thank you.

I might have to look on ebay for second hand ones because I'll never be able to afford them new. I'm 16 in 11 days (yey :D) and I can get a job then, then work for a few months, then buy something. Fingers crossed anyway.

[macogw]

I used to work at a guitar store, and when I was thinking about getting something big, the advice I was given by my coworkers was to stick with my 15watt amp to use as a monitor onstage and for practice, then let the venue deal with their PA setup. If there won't be a PA, go for at least 75watts..preferable 100-150watts. I have a 100-watt something....not Gallien Kreuger...*sigh* it's been a while....whatever the 2nd best bass amp is, I have a 100 watt from that company


oh, i really like Line6's range of bass amps with all the built-in effects. if you're into funk, you can get some *nice* sounds out of those.

[rowanparker]

I used to work at a guitar store, and when I was thinking about getting something big, the advice I was given by my coworkers was to stick with my 15watt amp to use as a monitor onstage and for practice, then let the venue deal with their PA setup. If there won't be a PA, go for at least 75watts..preferable 100-150watts. I have a 100-watt something....not Gallien Kreuger...*sigh* it's been a while....whatever the 2nd best bass amp is, I have a 100 watt from that company


oh, i really like Line6's range of bass amps with all the built-in effects. if you're into funk, you can get some *nice* sounds out of those.
So you can have a low wattage amp and then just use a PA to make it louder? (as this would be a much cheaper option). I have a 25watt Dean amp, could that be used with a PA system? Most gigs have a PA system so would that be an acceptable option?

[Bezmotivnik]

So you can have a low wattage amp and then just use a PA to make it louder? (as this would be a much cheaper option). I have a 25watt Dean amp, could that be used with a PA system? Most gigs have a PA system so would that be an acceptable option?
This is a more practical -- and routine -- option for the guitarist using a 30W-50W tube amp than it is for the bassist using a solid-state low-watter(for many reasons), but it's technically possible.

The problem is that, "tone" and all the other mojo aside, a smaller bass amp has to do two things: Be loud and clear enough for you and your bandmates to hear you well anywhere onstage, and also be input into a venue's sound-reinforcement system ("PA") that is capable of handling and appropriately amplifying bass frequencies.

Neither of these are givens. Practical bass amplification is a lot trickier than guitar amplification for the simple reason that bass frequencies and their long wavelengths are murder to control acoustically, and this doesn't even address the added demands that bass amplification places on amplifier electronics and speakers themselves.

The rule of thumb for minimum bass amp grunt is to have enough clear volume to be heard onstage without monitors while not needing to drive the amp into distortion, clipping and overheating. This is more than mere watt ratings in an advertisement.

Naturally, your venue and style of music will be the deciding factors.

[steveneddy]

Trust me. Keeping the stage sound low when using house PA is a plus. You play better, you can hear better and you can use a smaller amp turned up loud and not over power the rest of the band.

Be realistic here. If the venue that you are playing is less than 150 people, that's a small place. Use small gear and run through the house sound.

Remember that you are behind the PA speakers and you can't really hear what is coming out of them directly. The house, or audience hears the house sound. Just because house is loud doesn't necessarily mean that the stage sound needs to be as loud.

The audience can't hear stage sound anyway. They are stuck in front of house PA. They hear what Mr. Soundman wants them to hear. No one will know that stage sound is low because house has you cranked! Most house PA that we play through have large subs at the bottom of the stage and if you think that you need to over power them, then you need to go back to school. Let house sound fill the house.

Loud stage sound can make you deaf. Turn down, use smaller equipment and let house make you sound good. You concentrate on playing and getting the notes right. A guitar player can miss a note and everyone says it is artistic freedom. Bass player misses a note, everyone knows it and if you do it often, you will be playing with yourself in the living room.

The only people we see on our circuit that play loud are the beginner bands. Go to a big show and look at what the Eagles ( I know that they aren't your style ) play through. They have small 20-30 watt amps and Joe Walsh has two 15 watt tube amps that he plays through and mics them up and sounds big.

Ask a roadie at a big rock show how many of those speaker cabs are actually hooked up. Most of the time her will tell you that only one works and you will notice that even though he plays through a 100 watt head, he won't stand directly in front of it for very long. It will point slightly away from him so he can hear himself in the monitors. He has a 100 watt head because he is playing stadiums, not 100 people clubs.

Just be realistic and use the gear that fits the venue where you are playing.

And hire your own sound man. Pay him an equal cut like a band member. On gigs that you need your own sound, he brings his gear and you sound great. On gigs with house sound and house sound man, he sits in the booth and directs the house sound man through the show. Your own sound man will make of break the sound of your band.

I've been doing this for a while. I've played with Joe Walsh, John Mayall, Tom Petty, Jimmy Vaughn and many others, some famous, some not. You know what? You would be surprised how quiet it is on stage in the middle of a stadium. So quiet that you can talk to each other. You don't have to play loud in this day and age of great PA systems. Let house handle the volume, you just play.

[Tomosaur]

I use a 70W bass amp and point it at the ceiling (it tilts backwards) when using it on stage. This means the sound is projected upwards and fills the room, rather than hitting the front row and overpowering the other instruments.

Occasionally I use a splitter and use the amp as a monitor, with the PA providing the house sound.

You don't really need anything larger than a 50-100W amp for most venues. If you're playing outside then you could probably go a bit higher, but if you need that kind of volume you should probably just go through the PA and get a more even sound throughout the whole venue.

Oh, and don't worry generally about the other instruments. A decent sound engineer will mike up small guitar amplifiers so they have the benefit of the PA system too.

[ComplexNumber]

Hello,

I know many of you are guitarists (and some bassists) so I would like to ask a question related to bass amps (I'm guessing guitarists can answer as well as it is very similar).

If i was to buy a mid-range bass amp combo (say... 65watt) would I later be able to buy say a 100watt cab to make it 165 watt or does it not work like that? Does it depend on the combo, cab or what?

Thanks guys,
I am bassist but I don't have a clue :)
if you're just going to use it in your bedroom, 30W is more than enough. if you're planning on gigging with it, then a 100W is reasonable, but don't go spending money on something that you don't need.

[rowanparker]

Well for a gig last night I borrowed my mates amp which was 250W and that seemed adaquate. I didn't dare ask how much it costs though :(

It was an Ashdown Superfly which apparently are quite good.

[pastormick]

I use a Genz-Benz ML-200 (http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=detail&mid=1420&sid=423&cid=95) loaded with a Peavey Black Widow 15" and a high comp tweet placed directly behind me. I chose this over a 2-10 because I play a Yamaha TRB5PII and I like the bottom end. The speaker that came with the 'Benz is now in a home-built monitor for my drummer (I've worked with the same guy for 12 years) and I have a drum monitor in front, to my left. I tap the signal off the built-in DI to the board and let the sound guy worry about what the audience hears.

There is more than enough stage sound (less is better!) to fit small or large applications, the DI is really clean, and the 'Benz works well enough at home at low volumes at home that I don't blow the cat through a window. And, at only 60 pounds, I don't break my back getting it to where it has to go. So much smaller than the SVT-810 that this rig replaces... There is a bit of a difference in sound (understatement!) but, at 52, I'm getting too old to kill myself hauling everything in and out (read that "I've gotten used to it").

I did, at one time, have a Laney RB15 but, being made of chipboard, it didn't hold up too well to a heavy touring schedule and the cabinet kinda got 'loose'...

[billgoldberg]

I use a Genz-Benz ML-200 (http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=detail&mid=1420&sid=423&cid=95) loaded with a Peavey Black Widow 15" and a high comp tweet placed directly behind me. I chose this over a 2-10 because I play a Yamaha TRB5PII and I like the bottom end. The speaker that came with the 'Benz is now in a home-built monitor for my drummer (I've worked with the same guy for 12 years) and I have a drum monitor in front, to my left. I tap the signal off the built-in DI to the board and let the sound guy worry about what the audience hears.

There is more than enough stage sound (less is better!) to fit small or large applications, the DI is really clean, and the 'Benz works well enough at home at low volumes at home that I don't blow the cat through a window. And, at only 60 pounds, I don't break my back getting it to where it has to go. So much smaller than the SVT-810 that this rig replaces... There is a bit of a difference in sound (understatement!) but, at 52, I'm getting too old to kill myself hauling everything in and out (read that "I've gotten used to it").

I did, at one time, have a Laney RB15 but, being made of chipboard, it didn't hold up too well to a heavy touring schedule and the cabinet kinda got 'loose'...

<joda mode>

Reviving an ancient thread to brag about your equipment have you?

</joda mode>

[rowanparker]

Yeah... I was going to say... bit late.

For the record. I've now got a 180watt Ashdown Electric Blue bass amp.

[oldsoundguy]

As a retired FOH engineer, a bit of advice. Walls of sound are still the area of the metal mavens, but really a nightmare for the sound engineer and system. BLEED into the vocal mics can not be avoided.

Moderate amps (even a studio type) that give you the TONE you need for the type of music you are playing .. much better way to go. Then spend a buck or two on a SPEAKER direct box. One that will allow all of your settings and effects that are delivered to the speaker to also be delivered down line to the console!

Trust me on this, I have worked with some of the best in days of old, and most preferred a small rig .. but a lot were forced into bigger stuff to "impress' the crowd or because the other players got much more powerful stuff and they had to keep up to be heard on stage .. it escalates to the point of stupidity!