Mark Shuttleworth Interview - Linux Format

[aysiu]

Has anyone read this Mark Shuttleworth interview? Is this old news?

http://www.linuxformat.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=87

[poofyhairguy]

Either Marks been reading my stuff, or we just think a lot alike:



t's very hard for me to suggest to a father of three that his home computer should shift to Linux, as he only has one. He's probably in that middle ground: somebody who's installed a bit of extra stuff here, there and the other, and has got a couple of devices that need to work.





What Users Shouldn’t Be Converted to Ubuntu

Biggest Category: Someone with a medium amount of Windows experience.

Often these people will call themselves “Windows power users” but you can identify them by their knowledge level. People in this category include those who can protect themselves from Viruses and Spyware (since that is a big benefit of Ubuntu). Also people in this category are usually fairly proficient using many different programs in Windows, yet in no single program are they experts. Another way to tell is if the person knows what the “registry” is (but does not edit it by hand), or can install Windows themselves from scratch (but only from a CD that gives them all the drivers). It might be hard to tell the difference between these people and major nerds (Category B above) but you must use your head. You can tell how proficient someone is.

The problem with converting this type of person is they have spent years learning Windows. Often they have learned how to do things (instead of how things are done) in repetitive actions (click here, click that, and blank happens) and so in many ways Ubuntu might insult them. With Ubuntu a lot of their knowledge will be thrown out the window, and they will be humbled and have to start over from square one. They probably won’t like that. Also this category probably has a lot of weird, specific hardware yet they will not be willing to do the command line work necessary to get these things to work in Ubuntu (like a true nerd would) because “in Windows I only have to click next, next, next and it works.”



http://www.linuxformat.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=87

Is there a way to get the whole thing?

[Freddy]

I believe you could buy the mag, the hole interview with Mark Shuttleworth can be found in issue 71 and it's been out since August 24, happy reading /// Freddan

[kahping]

Hey! I fit into that category (or slightly above that) but i have no problems switching to Linux. so what if i have to start from square one? I want to learn, not become some dumb drone who only knows how to *click click click* ;-)

kahping

[Freddy]

I want to learn, not become some dumb drone who only knows how to *click click click*
That's what's makes you diffrent :). Many MS users, just wants a their OS for free (as, free beer) that totally behave and functions the same as XP and neither (K)ubuntu or any other distro for that matter is not really for them. /// Freddan

[Paul Bramscher]

That's what's makes you diffrent :). Many MS users, just wants a their OS for free (as, free beer) that totally behave and functions the same as XP and neither (K)ubuntu or any other distro for that matter is not really for them. /// Freddan

I'll take the Devil's Advocate role here (as someone in IT for 10 years, and with a degree in computer science).

What's the point, really, in learning about an OS unless you want to become a programmer or technologist? Shouldn't the OS just "be there" to facilitate your decision-making in the simplist manner possible? It should work for you, not vice-versa.

The linux community needs to understand the dual-role it has taken on for itsself. We want a system which does allow learning, even complete redesigning and compiling, command-line only server administration. But we shouldn't forget that there are legitimate reasons for not wanting to do much more than hit the power switch on the case, pop in a CD, listen to music and surf the net.

[Freddy]

What's the point, really, in learning about an OS unless you want to become a programmer or technologist? Shouldn't the OS just "be there" to facilitate your decision-making in the simplist manner possible? It should work for you, not vice-versa.
I couldn't agree with you more but what I was talking about was GNU/Linux today not the future and it's not ready for all the XP users needs, you are going to have to use the commandline sometimes (at least when something goes wrong). A *nix based filesystem won't and can't work as NTFS, it is a completly different OS and the way it handles installation of just some simple apps is different and allways will be at least regarding where it stores it's files.
A XP user that make a crossover must learn at least little of the unix way or he will be completly lost in space. I didn't mean to disrespect any windows user at all but if you aren't at least a little interested how a *nix based operating system works and you want everything to work just like it does in your Windows, maybe a *nix based system just isn't for you (and I don't mean you specifically now :)).
But hey this is just my opinion /// Freddan

[poofyhairguy]

What's the point, really, in learning about an OS unless you want to become a programmer or technologist?

Because OS makers are not perfect and all OSes therefore have quirks you must learn.



Shouldn't the OS just "be there" to facilitate your decision-making in the simplist manner possible?

In a hypothetical world, yes.



The linux community needs to understand the dual-role it has taken on for itsself. We want a system which does allow learning, even complete redesigning and compiling, command-line only server administration.

Yep, thats Linux's strong point.


But we shouldn't forget that there are legitimate reasons for not wanting to do much more than hit the power switch on the case, pop in a CD, listen to music and surf the net.

Linux offers that too. Better than MS does. If you hit the power button on my sister's TIVO (running Linux) its very easy to play the shows she recorded and record shows. My mom's Linux router works without work.

What you are implying is that Linux be the same as a desktop OS. I believe it can never be that simple.....the x86 world is too divided. One person's music will be in redbook form (easy to play), one will have MP3s on it (needing closed codecs to play), one will have a cd drive not compatible with Linux (needs a new drive to play) and some won't get Linux to load at all on their machines.

There is only one way to get the magical world where computers are like appliances- sell them as closed appliances. Tivo, Motorola Razr, or Mac Mini style. If instead you are trying to get that out of the open IBM clones (the beige boxs of the world) it will be harder do because of the billions (maybe trillions) of hardware possibilities. Thats life.

[mstlyevil]

There is only one way to get the magical world where computers are like appliances- sell them as closed appliances. Tivo, Motorola Razr, or Mac Mini style. If instead you are trying to get that out of the open IBM clones (the beige boxs of the world) it will be harder do because of the billions (maybe trillions) of hardware possibilities. Thats life.

I couldn't agree with you more on this point. When I built this computer, i first loaded XP on it and it was a nightmare from the very start because of bad drivers and conflicts I would get the BOS on a daily basis until my drivers for my mother board were updated and new bios were released. Imagine the problems people have with Linux and it's many flavors in trying to get all their equipment to work. I had hell figuring out how to get my system to let me enable DMA when I installed Ubuntu. I had to add one line at the top of my /ect/modules file that read amd74xx. Trying to find that one thing took me a week to get dvd plyback on Ubuntu. things like that will probally send most people back to Dell to get their next pc preloaded and ready to go with no hassles. If everyone had to install XP when they bought a new computer, they might have a different experience.

[sophtpaw]

I'll take the Devil's Advocate role here (as someone in IT for 10 years, and with a degree in computer science).

What's the point, really, in learning about an OS unless you want to become a programmer or technologist? Shouldn't the OS just "be there" to facilitate your decision-making in the simplist manner possible? It should work for you, not vice-versa.

The linux community needs to understand the dual-role it has taken on for itsself. We want a system which does allow learning, even complete redesigning and compiling, command-line only server administration. But we shouldn't forget that there are legitimate reasons for not wanting to do much more than hit the power switch on the case, pop in a CD, listen to music and surf the net.

Yikes! :shock: good point!

--
sophtpaw

[Kvark]

What you are implying is that Linux be the same as a desktop OS. I believe it can never be that simple.....the x86 world is too divided. One person's music will be in redbook form (easy to play), one will have MP3s on it (needing closed codecs to play), one will have a cd drive not compatible with Linux (needs a new drive to play) and some won't get Linux to load at all on their machines.

There is only one way to get the magical world where computers are like appliances- sell them as closed appliances. Tivo, Motorola Razr, or Mac Mini style. If instead you are trying to get that out of the open IBM clones (the beige boxs of the world) it will be harder do because of the billions (maybe trillions) of hardware possibilities. Thats life.
Thats why I perfer x86 PC over Mac and gaming consoles. I can put in some more ram, change graphics card, add a fancy sound card, etc, the hardware possibilities are wast. Maybe you can add a hdd to a gaming console or more memory to a Mac but compared to an x86 PC the options are still very limited on other platforms.

The solution to this wonderful mess of endless options for those who wants a black box that mysteriously works? - Buy a brand computer with OS and drivers preinstalled, then stick to that OS and don't mess with the hardware.

[essexman]

Thats why I perfer x86 PC over Mac and gaming consoles. I can put in some more ram, change graphics card, add a fancy sound card, etc, the hardware possibilities are wast. Maybe you can add a hdd to a gaming console or more memory to a Mac but compared to an x86 PC the options are still very limited on other platforms.

The solution to this wonderful mess of endless options for those who wants a black box that mysteriously works? - Buy a brand computer with OS and drivers preinstalled, then stick to that OS and don't mess with the hardware.
What about the LXF Interview?

Excuse me for breaking the thread, I would be interested to know peoples thoughts on Mark's remarks about enhancing colaboration.

I read his comments to say that he hopes that a fix or enhancement in an Ubuntu package could be automatically passed through to the development of that package. Did I read this right?

[poofyhairguy]

What about the LXF Interview?

Excuse me for breaking the thread, I would be interested to know peoples thoughts on Mark's remarks about enhancing colaboration.

I read his comments to say that he hopes that a fix or enhancement in an Ubuntu package could be automatically passed through to the development of that package. Did I read this right?

Most interesting part:



I considered standing for Debian Project Leader, but I figured that there's another way to have the same effect really, and that is to create something that really executes the vision.

He thought abotu changing it from the inside, and chose the Ubuntu route instead.

[Kvark]

What about the LXF Interview?

Excuse me for breaking the thread, I would be interested to know peoples thoughts on Mark's remarks about enhancing colaboration.

I read his comments to say that he hopes that a fix or enhancement in an Ubuntu package could be automatically passed through to the development of that package. Did I read this right?
Oh, the article, only those who have the whole article can discuss it. I'm sorry for replying to a topic I could not make an informed reply to and thereby going off topic.

[Paul Bramscher]

I couldn't agree with you more but what I was talking about was GNU/Linux today not the future and it's not ready for all the XP users needs, you are going to have to use the commandline sometimes (at least when something goes wrong). A *nix based filesystem won't and can't work as NTFS, it is a completly different OS and the way it handles installation of just some simple apps is different and allways will be at least regarding where it stores it's files.
A XP user that make a crossover must learn at least little of the unix way or he will be completly lost in space. I didn't mean to disrespect any windows user at all but if you aren't at least a little interested how a *nix based operating system works and you want everything to work just like it does in your Windows, maybe a *nix based system just isn't for you (and I don't mean you specifically now :)).
But hey this is just my opinion /// Freddan

I'd have agreed more when I was compiling tulip.c drivers written by some guy at NASA into my kernels 5 years ago. But holy smokes, linux is getting easy now. It's at the cusp of a serious popular inroads. I predict that it won't be more than a couple years until for all practical purposes that equivalent Windows functions are no more difficult on linux.

What'll remain difficult, though, is that high-end stuff you can do with Linux (beowulf clustering, for example) that's simply complex due to the nature of the beast.

[essexman]

Oh, the article, only those who have the whole article can discuss it. I'm sorry for replying to a topic I could not make an informed reply to and thereby going off topic.
LXF have posted a 3 Question teaser of the Interview (http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=87)
which seems to have had quiet a few hits.

Their website is not as good as it used to be IMO

[BXL]

What's the point, really, in learning about an OS unless you want to become a programmer or technologist? Shouldn't the OS just "be there" to facilitate your decision-making in the simplist manner possible? It should work for you, not vice-versa.

What do you mean with "learning about an OS"? Windows seems to be so easy but shifting for example form XP to Vista caused many problems since there were no drivers, the hardware wasn't supported and software didn't run. People had to know Windows otherwise they were more or less helpless.

Now, I am one of those DIY-Windows Powerlusers, starting with 3.11, moving to IBM OS2/4, Win95, Win98, NT4.0, W2k, XP and now Win7 (I skipped ME and Vista). Since 2003 I am also using Linux and compared to Windows, 99% of the time Linux is working "out of the box" with the hardware I own. Right now all my computers are running on Linux (Ubuntu or Debian) and only my Desktop uses dual boot (Ubuntu & XP for gaming).


But we shouldn't forget that there are legitimate reasons for not wanting to do much more than hit the power switch on the case, pop in a CD, listen to music and
surf the net.

To be honest, Linux/Ubuntu, as I know it, just works like this. Power on, pop in CD, listen to the music and surf the internet while the OS is installed. If you compare this with the installation of Windows Linux is a much more user friendly OS and that's why I, as a DIY-powerluser, prefer it over Windows ;)

[cardinals_fan]

I seriously doubt if this discussion will just start back up again...

[BXL]

... it's not ready for all the XP users needs, you are going to have to use the commandline sometimes (at least when something goes wrong).

I don't know, but when I was still using Windows on a daily basis I was forced to use cmd pretty often. With Linux I only use the terminal if I really want to use it. I don't need the command line since all important tools are available with a gui.

[days_of_ruin]

Please lock this:lolflag:

[GreyGeek]

I'd have agreed more when I was compiling tulip.c drivers written by some guy at NASA into my kernels 5 years ago.

Wow! Did you ever toggle some of my neurons. The guy was Donald (something) and I was compiling his Hurricane drivers. When I started using Linux with RH 5.0 in 1998 it was purely a nerd tool.

I agree with your other comment about things being easy. I retired 8 months ago from a career in teaching, programming and PC consulting. The last 11 years I spent programing in house apps for a state agency, which was my last client in my consulting business. They gave me an offer my wife wouldn't let me refuse. At my state agency job all of my "clients" were clerks with HS education who were techno phobes. Even after years of using Windows most of them could not tell the difference between Windows Explorer and any other app, or the OS. They had to have numbered instructions taped next to their displays which reminded them of the buttons to click, and in what order, to bring up a certain app. Be it a spreadsheet or an in-house data entry application, they also had to have a detailed set of instructions on how to use the app. IF they deviated from any step or if XP blew an error message, they immediately got lost and couldn't even figure out how to continue or reverse themselves. Most would simply reach over and turn off the workstation and then turn it back on to restart their instruction sequence. With 500 workstations at the agency the 6 Windows MSCEs were running their legs off doing their mantra: "reboot, reinstall, or rebuild". Many clerks had keyboards so full of cookie and candy debris that they could have been labeled biological hazards. I could look at the keyboard and estimate very closely how rotund the clerk was. Mice were even worse.

Writing software for that environment requires that it be VERY EASY to use.

But, even with all my experience I am no different. I prefer a program that is simple to use. One with a tab that would please a GNOME user but one with a second tab that would please a KDE user. The problem is, however, that some utilities have so many parameter variations that making a GUI to run them would create a complex interface. That's why a lot of GNOME users do not like Systemsettings.


And, although I find myself doing it less and less, I occasionally go to the CLI. KISS becomes very important.