What should be done about Glitchy Gibbon?

[suchawato]

Edit:
I deleted this rant, because that's what it was, a rant.
Sometimes the frustraion of dealing with constant problems with a project can build to the point of needing to be vented.
Which is basicly what this was.
I feel sorry for those who actually read it, as it was at the very least somewhat unproductive.
Some of the thins I said here may have had a ring of truth, however most of them were just generally unhelpful rather than doing somthing about them.
So I have deleted it.
Wrong Speech.
Even if typed.
My appologies to those who read it.

[suchawato]

Same as above.
I did save the text so if anyone does want to read it, I will be happy to send them a copy.
It's mostly just built up user frustrations externalized in rant form.
So if that sounds interesting to you, I will be happy to send you a copy.
You can also read some of the responses that 23Meg and popch gave to get some idea of the contents.

[23meg]

Exactly what can we do ablut the state of what is considered "Stable", in a "Stable release"?

1) File more bugs

2) File better bugs

3) Get more people to work on bugs for longer

4) Improve QA and release management procedures (constantly being done (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/developer-weather-report))


Now, all this would not be so much of a problem in Ubuntu, except that on the website, Ubuntu claims to "JUST WORK".
Horsecrap.
No IT doesn't.
It makes a good attempt.
But it does-not.

On my system, it just works. On someone else's, it half works, and on someone else's, it just doesn't. This is because there are too many hardware combinations in the world, some of which aren't supported well by the kernel, which is an upstream project that Ubuntu depends on.

With proprietary platforms such as Mac and Windows, most manufacturers actually care to produce working drivers, whereas the same isn't the case with Linux.


You know, Sony, or Google, or Microsoft, or Apple would simply push the release date back if there was any hint of being a major system problem with their stuff. (OK so maybe not Microsoft but at least Vista can mount an iPod)

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases



I mean why would we say that a product "just works" when this forum is filled with testimonies of those it doesn't??

Because there are many times more people for whom Ubuntu is just working. If you thought a product advertised to "just work" actually "just worked" in 100% of use cases, you were being naive. The point is that Ubuntu just works on supported hardware, in the great majority of use cases. Ubuntu as a project does its best, but it still depends on upstream components such as the kernel, X etc. that make it up; if the kernel doesn't support a certain chipset, there's next to nothing Ubuntu can do about it.


Google desktop beta for linux works better, and more smoothly than Firefox.

Huh? That doesn't make sense; since when is Google Desktop a browser?


Lets say for Hardy Heron; there may be some problem with, oh, say, DVD's for instance.
Hypothetically if this were to happen why not delay the release untill we're sure?

Because Ubuntu follows a time based release model (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases), and there's no end to delaying releases.


I'ts almost a month into Gutsy's release, and still these major problems are not fixed!

Which? You haven't mentioned any.


When there was a problem with a version of iTunes that would not allow it to install, Apple had it fixed the next day.
I don't mind paying for sombody to fix this.

With Free software, it's much easier to pay someone to fix your problems, because the source is open and free to be modified. And when your problem is fixed, it's fixed not just for you, but for everyone having that problem.

So, consider actually paying someone to fix your problems. That would be more productive than ranting about them.

[popch]

Exactly what can we do ablut the state of what is considered "Stable", in a "Stable release"?
The same as with Windows: nothing. They deliver, you use or you don't
Say what you want ablut Microsoft, Apple, and Novell, but at least USB drives work on thier systems.
All USB drives I ever tried did work with Ubuntu linux. Quite a few of my users had a terrible time getting their USB drives to work with Windows XP. The most frequently encountered bug was XP using drive letters for the USB drive which was already in use by a network drive.
DVD's almost always play correctly.
Not in a Windows XP installation out of the box. They won't play. Period.
Their OS's install easily, and Either save existing data(Novell's Suse) or make no mistake their system going to wipe everything out (Apple, Microsoft).
Win XP with all drivers takes on my systems up to four hours to install; I have to be present much of that time because it wants data to be entered every ten minutes or so. When done, you will have to install the applications as well.
In some cases it will also refuse to install even if you enter the license key exactly as printed on the computer or the jewel box.
Ubuntu Linux installs on the syme systems in about half an hour, and that includes most applications I need.
Windows does not offer any kind of support for installing a multiple boot systems with various partitions.
An earlier Release of SuSe set up overlapping partitions on my kid's PC, thus causing him to lose much of his data.
They ARE easy to install.
See above
You just pop in the disc, answer some easy questions, and come back an hour later.
See above, too
At this point, DVD's play.
Not in Windows, they don't. You are repeating yourself just to make the list of complaints longer.
.Mp3's play.
In Ubuntu, they do so after the terribly complicated work of klicking twice on OK or some such and waiting a few seconds.
USB drives mount easily and do not require permissions.
USB require permissions in Windows if they use a file system which supports permissions.
If they do not, they will nor require any permission in Ubuntu, either.
Wireless works cleanly.
If you happen to be in possession of the proper driver which is not even guaranteed if you have the CDs which have been shipped with your system.
And. when you "shut down" or "suspend" the computer, it really does "shut down" or "suspend".
In very many cases, but not always.
Not just partly doing this.
Only rarely, anyway.
Monitors work correctly.
As they do with Ubuntu. I have yet to see one which does not.
Laptops do too.
Again, if you happen all the drivers. See above about 'wireless'.

Ubuntu Linux - as all Linux distributins - does has some faults which make it difficult to use on some systems.

However, Windows is not nearly as painless or perfect as you pretend. It can be used by so many people because it comes pre-installed with the PCs. Should you ever want to re-install your systems, chances are that you will encounter quite the same number and kinds of problems you mentioned having with Linux. Strangely enough, this applies even (or particularly) to the Windows installation media that are shipped with the pre-installed Systems.

[23meg]

I want to add somthing here:
we can't wait weeks, months, six months, the next release, to fix major bugs.
We need to have these out the door with a patch, right away.
What if an entire school system installed Gutsy Gibbon?
Are we gonna wait months for them to be able to use usb drives?
It's not OK to wait until the next release or until we get arround to it.
There needs to be a sytem update right away.
We have a responsibility to the users at businesses, public education centers and governments to be faster than this.
(not to mention regular users)
This is really important.

Critical bugs are fixed with stable release updates.

[23meg]

Exactly what can we do ablut the state of what is considered "Stable", in a "Stable release"?

* The same as with Windows: nothing. They deliver, you use or you don't


I disagree; in Ubuntu, you can file bugs, fix them, hire or convince someone to fix them, and participate in improving development and QA processes so that more bugs get dealt with. Try any of those with proprietary software.

[popch]

I disagree; in Ubuntu, you can file bugs, fix them, hire or convince someone to fix them, and participate in improving development and QA processes so that more bugs get dealt with. Try any of those with proprietary software.

You are quite right, of course. It can and should be done.

I tuned my answer to the perceived capabilities of the (not very) original Poster. I apologise for any confusion this may have caused.

[dnns123]

not sure if this helps, but it does give insight.

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

[stalker145]

So,
After some deal of frustration, I write this rant.
Satirically of course.

I'm sorry to hear that you're having so many problems with Ubuntu at this stage. Might I suggest that, since you say you've done it before, you go with an OS that works for you? No one here is forcing you to use this substandard distribution nor are they claiming that Ubuntu is perfect.

Also, may I suggest that you return your copy of Ubuntu for a full refund.:roll:

[suchawato]

LOL.:)
I'm flattered that people felt like taking the time to respond to that rant,
However, that's exactly what it was.
LOL
I know all of the things people said in response are true, I just needed to vent.
LOL
Apprecieate the carring though.
Meg, I do report bugs, and actually, I am glad to be able to use Ubuntu and participate in the development of open software.
Sometimes the frustration just builds though.:redface:
Sorry if I offended anyone.
No really, I am very glad to be able to participate in this, and I know the Ubuntu team works very hard to make the best release possible every time.
It's just frustrating, you know?
Bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs.
There's no end to em! LOL.
Oh, yes. I do feel better though.
It's probably best not to take that rant to seriously.
I may rant, and I'll be back designing more icons, themes, wallpapers, concepts and promoting Ubuntu.
LOL
So, sorry.
I didn't mean to take it out on anyone.
I feel a bit sheepish now:cry::(

[suchawato]

I have deleted the contents of the top two posts for reasons posted there.

[bapoumba]

Eheh, glad to see you just needed some room to vent away.
Just be aware that venting on a huge traffic forum sometimes does not end nicely. Cheers!

[SunnyRabbiera]

well the whole 7 series of Ubuntu has been a roller coaster ride for me.
I am certainly hoping that Hardy will have more stability in mind as its supposed to be the next LTS out there

[Chrisj303]

I went to install Gutsy on my Macbook Pro earlier.


I booted up the Live CD, looking forward to it.


But before I even got to the desktop, I was getting bizarre error messages regarding my graphics card (which supposedly works out-the-box).

"No" I thought.."I just can be bothered"..

I hard rebooted back into OSX.:(

[inversekinetix]

my full xp install (os all drivers and applications) takes me the best part of an hour. the person who said it takes four hours must be, well, i wont say it. My XP boots faster and runs better than my ubuntu. Finding answers to simple ubuntu problems like 'why wont the icons for programs Ive uninstalled delete from the applications menu' took over 2 weeks to find.
Ubuntu is cool, I like it and use it for that reason only, theres loads of things to set up and it all takes time. I know windows inside out and i get it running like a dream in no time. I find ubuntu to be a lot less stable than my xp, but I hope that will change. One thing for sure is that I will never use a mac nor have a mac product in my home.

[Nano Geek]

my full xp install (os all drivers and applications) takes me the best part of an hour. the person who said it takes four hours must be, well, i wont say it. My XP boots faster and runs better than my ubuntu. Finding answers to simple ubuntu problems like 'why wont the icons for programs Ive uninstalled delete from the applications menu' took over 2 weeks to find.
Ubuntu is cool, I like it and use it for that reason only, theres loads of things to set up and it all takes time. I know windows inside out and i get it running like a dream in no time. I find ubuntu to be a lot less stable than my xp, but I hope that will change. One thing for sure is that I will never use a mac nor have a mac product in my home.It's been said many time before but, Linux is not for everybody. Some people, and I'm assuming you're one of them, like Windows better than Ubuntu. Or at least they can work better with Windows, and that's fine. If you like Windows, then use Windows. If you like Ubuntu, then use Ubuntu.

[Chrisj303]

One thing for sure is that I will never use a mac nor have a mac product in my home.




I'm sure Apple are reeling from losing your sale.


And what are you talking about XP for? - I thought serious computer users didn't need a GUI?

[bruce89]

What should be done about Glitchy Gibbon?

Stop bloody moaning.

Seriously, people always say "$currentstable is not as good as $oldstable". I've found all the Ubuntu versions to be about the same in number of bugs.

If people don't want bugs, use Debian.