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borovy3488
November 5th, 2007, 12:05 AM
So, I have been looking for awhile at the iPod Touch. So far, its the only option I can see that has all I want. Here's some components that must be in the gadget: WiFi internet access, hard drive storage, video playback, touch screen interface (just because it looks cool, but if there's any players that don't have this, they're fine too.), and it must be small enough to carry in my pocket. Are there any other options I have??

Thanks,
Wayne

DeadSuperHero
November 5th, 2007, 01:13 AM
Hmm...
*COUGH*OpenMoko*COuGH*

EDIT:
The OpenMoko is a handheld competitor for the iPhone and the iPod Touch. OpenMoko is Linux-based, and Open Source. They currently have a developer version for about 300 bucks, so check it out at:
http://www.openmoko.com/

CalcProgrammer1
November 5th, 2007, 01:50 AM
You could probably get a PDA (Palm, Windows Mobile, or Linux-based) cheap. I have a Dell Axim x50v (running WM6) and I love it, but it can't sync with Ubuntu yet, so I have to use Windows/ActiveSync. Hopefully they'll either make an Ubuntu program that works with WM6 or port Familiar Linux (a PDA version of Linux mainly for HP iPaq's) to the Axim soon.

itsbradman
November 5th, 2007, 01:53 AM
yes, but no harddrive or wifi support in that device

DutyDuty
November 5th, 2007, 02:40 AM
The OpenMoko is a handheld competitor for the iPhone and the iPod Touch. OpenMoko is Linux-based, and Open Source. They currently have a developer version for about 300 bucks, so check it out at:
http://www.openmoko.com/

Listen to him!

SoloSalsa
November 5th, 2007, 02:44 AM
I'll be third to mention OpenMoko. Only, it uses MicroSD, not any sort of HDD.
I think the only other PMP with wireless and hard disk is an Archos, but they are somewhat big and expensive.

borovy3488
November 5th, 2007, 02:49 AM
That's what I was about to ask. The OpenMoko doesn't have a hard drive, and SD cards can get expensive, especially if you will be using it for videos. I have looked at the Archos players, and they seem too bulky for everyday use. I guess the iPod is the only way to go for me. That is the only drawback to OpenMoko though. If it weren't for the fact that it didn't have at least 8 GB onboard, it would be a no contest.

cyclefiend2000
November 5th, 2007, 02:49 AM
Hmm...
*COUGH*OpenMoko*COuGH*

EDIT:
The OpenMoko is a handheld competitor for the iPhone and the iPod Touch. OpenMoko is Linux-based, and Open Source. They currently have a developer version for about 300 bucks, so check it out at:
http://www.openmoko.com/

that is a pretty sweet looking device.

Rhubarb
November 5th, 2007, 03:02 AM
Consider the openmoko (FIC neo 1973).

Or have a look at the nokia N800 / N810 (it doesn't have a hard drive, but it is expandable via SDHC cards up to 8GB at the moment)
http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/

I would warn against using an ipod touch, especially if you intend to connect it up to ubuntu. Apple has not supported linux with respect to their ipod line (sure the community has added support for many of the older generation ipods), and has consistently made it harder to do so - if you were to buy an ipod you are supporting apple with their DRM and various other problematic ipod syncing issues that you will experience with the latest generation of ipods and linux.

I recommend you should avoid an ipod touch at all costs.

Dare I say it, but many PDA's running windows CE have wifi, and some can be expanded with a micro hard drive that will fit into a compact flash slot.
This way you just need a usb CF reader that ubuntu should have no problems reading.

phrostbyte
November 5th, 2007, 03:14 AM
Uh... guys... iPod Touch uses flash. No HDD.

Rhubarb
November 5th, 2007, 03:37 AM
Uh... guys... iPod Touch uses flash. No HDD.

LOL so it does :P
http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/specs.html

DutyDuty
November 5th, 2007, 03:50 AM
I also heard iPods have a 20% failure rate, which is terrible.

multifaceted
November 5th, 2007, 04:28 AM
Yes, they use flash instead of a mechanical disk. Hence why they come with such limited memory. They are a nice piece of technology but, I wouldn't shell out that much money for only 8Gb of storage....

Crashmaxx
November 5th, 2007, 05:07 AM
Or have a look at the nokia N800 / N810 (it doesn't have a hard drive, but it is expandable via SDHC cards up to 8GB at the moment)
http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/



Oooo, that thing looks beast. I should have gotten that instead of my GPS. That has similar GPS capability, WiFi, video, and best of all runs Linux. Its about the same price as my GPS too, dang that is too cool.

Thanks for making me realize I bought the wrong device!#-o

airtonix
November 5th, 2007, 07:23 AM
my ipod video 30gb works just fine with ubuntu.

has done since dapper.

not too mention ive got rockbox on it too.

inversekinetix
November 5th, 2007, 07:28 AM
I cant believe not one of you linux users has mentioned

http://gp2x.co.uk/

just look at the community apps that are avaiable too!

Rhubarb
November 5th, 2007, 09:02 AM
I cant believe not one of you linux users has mentioned

http://gp2x.co.uk/

just look at the community apps that are avaiable too!

Yeah it's a good little thing indeed, but it doesn't have wifi (one of the requirements the original poster required).

inversekinetix
November 5th, 2007, 09:52 AM
Yeah it's a good little thing indeed, but it doesn't have wifi (one of the requirements the original poster required).

good point, but i bet this

http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/172851/art/hercules/wi-fi-usb-dongle-54-mb.html

would fit in one of the 4 usb ports.

ssam
November 5th, 2007, 02:44 PM
i'd say the n800

http://tabletblog.com/2007/10/n800-vs-n810-tableteers-have-choices.html has a comparison between the n800 and n810. from a storage point of view the n800 wins.

borovy3488
November 5th, 2007, 03:33 PM
The N800 does look pretty nice. How about size. do you guys think that will fit in my pocket comfortably? Also, about how much would it be to get the memory up to at least 8GB, and what cards would I have to use?

zachtib
November 5th, 2007, 04:16 PM
Hmm...
*COUGH*OpenMoko*COuGH*

EDIT:
The OpenMoko is a handheld competitor for the iPhone and the iPod Touch. OpenMoko is Linux-based, and Open Source. They currently have a developer version for about 300 bucks, so check it out at:
http://www.openmoko.com/

I've had the pleasure of playing with an OpenMoko phone at UbuntuLive this year, and also an iPod Touch at the Apple Store here, and while I really want an OpenMoko phone, I can safely say that it's no replacement for the iPod Touch. The iPod's interface is very well done, and the screen is large and also very high quality. Apple has a knack for creating good gadgets, I just wish that they wouldn't try to keep Linux users from using their products.

ssam
November 5th, 2007, 04:18 PM
The N800 does look pretty nice. How about size. do you guys think that will fit in my pocket comfortably? Also, about how much would it be to get the memory up to at least 8GB, and what cards would I have to use?

SD cards are about £10 (gbp) per GB, probably cheaper in US.

it fits well in a jacket pocket, but is a bit big for my jeans pockets.

have a look at http://tabletblog.com/2007/09/ipod-touch-vs-nokia-n800-filling-other.html

borovy3488
November 6th, 2007, 12:07 AM
I watched the video that was requested in that blog, and I was amazed by the size difference. Seriously, right now i think that the iPod Touch is the only thing that meets all of my criteria. The Nokia is just too bulky for every day use. I would rather not buy an Apple product because of the way they treat the Linux community, but if there is only one option, I can't help it...

Rhubarb
November 6th, 2007, 01:51 AM
While unfortunately the openmoko phone isn't released yet, it should be soon.
The iphone has similar specs to the ipod touch, so you can do a brief comparison here:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone
You'll notice that the screen on the openmoko device is twice the resolution (crisper graphics, VGA), and is a bit smaller too.

FIC neo 1973 openmoko phone + 8GB micro SD card = $450 + $140 = US$590
8GB ipod touch = US$299

Or compare them side by side:
http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/

http://www.openmoko.com/index.html
http://www.openmoko.org/

Obviously the ipod touch is cheaper, but it doesn't have a phone, it has half the screen resolution, you can't install different apps on it (unless via ajax apps in safari), you won't be able to sync with ubuntu (not easily anyway), and it doesn't have removable memory or batteries.

I suggest you think hard about your probable ipod touch purchase. At the very least you need an apple mac or xp sp2 or vista to be able to sync with it.
Will the battery after a year be still functional on the ipod touch?
If you're looking at an ipod touch, you might as well get a microsoft zune (or insert propietary locked down and DRMed device here).

</rant>
(If you can't tell be now, I really dislike apple, they are more closed and secret than microsoft are)

igknighted
November 6th, 2007, 02:21 AM
Zune has wifi, a 30gb hd, no touch screen, but you can get the brown one for $100, which is a price that you just cannot beat.

borovy3488
November 6th, 2007, 04:29 AM
I completely agree. I really don't like Apple that much either. The only problem I have is that there are no other options i have.

How much longer do you think it will be until there is an iPod Touch killer? I have been looking and can't find one.

As for the Zune, no, I hate Microsoft with a fiery passion. There is no way I would even consider it. PS> You can't surf the net on a Zune as far as I can tell.

inversekinetix
November 6th, 2007, 04:44 AM
check out this place
http://www.chinavasion.com/index.php/cName/mp4-players/

ive bought stuff from there, good service cheap prices, the mp4 watch is pretty cool and flashy.

Depressed Man
November 6th, 2007, 05:37 AM
Zune has wifi, a 30gb hd, no touch screen, but you can get the brown one for $100, which is a price that you just cannot beat.

Is the Zune's wifi internet wifi though? Cause I thought it was just zune to zune (well now zune to PC).

Rhubarb
November 6th, 2007, 06:36 AM
I was only giving the m$ zune as an example of a poor media player.
The zune can't browse the internet (even though it has wifi) --> which makes it a completely useless paper weight.

Rhubarb
November 7th, 2007, 06:03 AM
This is (one of the reasons) why you don't want to buy an ipod, especially if you don't have / want windows or OSX:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=599679

Personally I think your money would be better spent buying a piece of glass.
A piece of glass is thin, looks shiny, is really cheap, and can be used as a paper weight just like an ipod can.

borovy3488
November 8th, 2007, 07:22 PM
I was also considering a PDA alternative. I know most PDA's can play video and stuff, so what's the best one you guys have seen with wifi and plays music and videos?

~Wayne

cawill
November 8th, 2007, 07:30 PM
Have you considered getting a phone with those features?
W960i to mention one.

borovy3488
November 8th, 2007, 07:36 PM
I have considered it, but i have found it to be cheaper to just buy another device. Plus, I just got a new phone with Verizon because the service in Tennessee SUCKS with AT&T. Any PDA ideas?

Acglaphotis
November 8th, 2007, 07:36 PM
N800 FTW! Runs on debian!

borovy3488
November 8th, 2007, 07:46 PM
The N800 is too big to fit in my pants pocket for day-to-day use. I would love to be able to use it, but it just doesn't fit my criteria...

borovy3488
November 9th, 2007, 02:54 PM
Anyone have any more ideas? How about the Nokia 770? It looks pretty cheap, but I can't seem to find a size comparison anywhere...

Apple.boi
November 10th, 2007, 10:33 AM
well for a touch screen mp3 player i would suggest is Samsung YP-P2 it also limited to Flash, 4GB and 8GB. But no WiFi, which i might add is one of those things you see being added to some device then everyone is like, it has to be on mine. but instead, which is cool, is it has bluetooth to connect to both your computer and bluetooth headphones to listen to your music wirelessly. It has a changeable graphical user interface with other preset themes. big screen like the touch and comes in black, white (pretty), and red. AND its a whole lot cheaper, 8GB P2 is $100 cheaper then the 8 GB touch. it was released in canada and usa if that interest you.

i havent heard anything from ubuntu-forums about it connecting to ubuntu.

But to sum it up; this is Samsungs direct competitior to the ipod touch, so it can be a "alternative" (using loosely). i think it might be easier for this to work with ubuntu, as far as i know samsung doesn't encrypt and proprietary things like apple does.

I'm pretty sure that gtkpod dev team is pretty close to getting the new generations of ipod working/connecting. they have to crack the encryption for it to work.?? so dont loose hope for the ipod just yet.

Links:
Cnet Review (http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/samsung-yp-p2-8gb/4505-6490_7-32588459.html)
Samsung site (not "speciality" site) (http://www.samsung.com/ca/products/mp3player/mp3player/yp_p2jcbxac.asp)
All Samsung's line-up (links to other colors) (http://www.samsung.com/ca/products/mp3player/mp3player/index.asp)

(alternative name Samsung YP P2 [For searchability])
UPDATE: OGG SUPPORT YAYY

Apple.boi
November 12th, 2007, 04:09 PM
I looked a little more and boy did i find something with everyone thing your want. the only things this really compares to though is a laptop more then a mp3 player in capabilities and the only drawback because of it screen it might fit snug in your pocket. i knew that archos had a wifi device and checked , the archos 704 has everything wifi(web browsing, full internet experience), mp3 player, video player, phto viewer, hard drive, 7" screen, touch interface. AND ITS A DVR with a docking accessory. 30GB or 80GB. streaming from your computer Don't know how that would do with Linux.

Link:
Archos 704 WiFi (http://www.archos.com/products/video/archos_704wifi/)

kind of running late for something so i cant expand further on it right now but just check it out if your still looking. it might be giving up on the size if it is enticing (throw it in a bag) although i don't think its huge.

grndslm
June 5th, 2008, 10:30 PM
Definitely the N810 or wait for the Gigabyte M528 which should be due out in the next month or two. The Gigabyte will prolly be the first device to come with Ubuntu Mobile.

You can see a prototype M528 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76NviXg_1g4

Sweet, eh?

oddin85
June 5th, 2008, 10:45 PM
I like the iPod touch, I've been using it with ubuntu and I can add songs to it with amarok, and I can mount it as a hard drive using sshfs. The only problem I have is that putting songs on it takes longer because it's synced through the wireless, and I haven't figured out how to get the album art on it. Plus the iPod is easy to hack into and install programs that apple doesn't want on it.

oddin85
June 5th, 2008, 10:49 PM
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PortableDevices/iPhone is where I learned how to make my iPod play nice with ubuntu :-)

grndslm
June 5th, 2008, 11:49 PM
I like the iPod touch... I can mount it as a hard drive using sshfs. The only problem I have is that putting songs on it takes longer because it's synced through the wireless...It prolly takes so long, not because of wireless, but because of sshfs. Something like NFS should be a lot quicker.

hanzomon4
June 5th, 2008, 11:59 PM
Make your life easy get an iphone or ipod touch. I'd wait however because a new iphone is suppose to come out soon with really great features. It's a solid device that's only going to get better. I've played with one and it's awesome.

grndslm
June 6th, 2008, 05:09 AM
I'd get an iPhone/Touch... BUT there's no keyboard. That's a dealbreaker to me. It wouldn't be so bad if the keyboard took up most of the screen when placed horizontally, but there's no way to do so far as I know.

I also need Flash to work inside the browser. That also doesn't work with the Apple devices.

oddin85
June 6th, 2008, 03:17 PM
yeah, iPod has no flash, but the keyboard is easy to use once you get used to it

cookieofdoom
June 6th, 2008, 04:08 PM
If you're okay with a PDA, the Axim X51v has a VGA screen, a video accelerator that enables it to play near DVD quality video, takes CF and SDIO, and it's probably pretty cheap on Ebay by now as Dell no longer makes it. A program (OSS) called TCMP enables it to play mp4, mpg, flv (youtube), avi, wmv, divx, at fairly high resolutions with very little lag. I had one for a while but sold it when I got a smartphone, which also plays video but not as well/fast.

geoken
June 6th, 2008, 04:39 PM
The problem with many PDA's and Windows Mobile smartphones is that they're designed around a stylus. Companies like HTC try and get around this by developing front end apps with really big buttons so the device can easily be used with your fingers alone, but you inevitably run into situations where you have to drop back into the underlying OS at which point it becomes almost impossible to navigate menus without a stylus.

If you don't need the full functionality of the touch, a Samsung P2 is a great player. It has a 3 inch touch screen, a good UI developed from the ground up (read:you'll never feel like you need a stylus), good form factor, and can be put into UMS mode.

http://www.pmptoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/portable-media-player_samsung_p2-dap.jpg

http://the-gadgeteer.com/review/samsung_p2_yp_p2_digital_audio_player

grndslm
June 6th, 2008, 06:56 PM
yeah, iPod has no flash, but the keyboard is easy to use once you get used to itNo.. the Apple on-screen keyboard blows. I'm wanting to ssh with this device, and it takes like 3 clicks to get to a forward slash. The Apple devices are a no-no for me. It's a sweet device, and I'll possibly consider it if they add a larger, fuller, horizontal keyboard. I also dislike how there's no way to copy & paste. Since it's multi-touch, you should be able to just hold two fingers at the beginning and end of the text to select, but Apple engineers are still dumbfounded about selecting text since your finger is supposed to slide the screen. 1 step forward, 2 back.

As for the Samsung P2, there is no WiFi... so it's not an option for me. I'd rather buy a Touch than this.

I've always been prejudice against the Windows Mobile devices, but I'm highly considering an HTC device. Sprint is my favorite cellular company due to their $30/mo SERO plan (it can't be beat), and they offer the HTC Touch & HTC Mogul. Honestly, I'd buy a Mogul right now if I wasn't already in a contract because I bought the Treo 755p last year.

But I do still believe that I'm voting for products by buying them. And I don't quite want to contribute to Microsoft, Apple, or even Palm anymore. I will sell this 755p once I get another $150 credit for a new phone... and start looking into MIDs at that point, like the Gigabyte M528 (Ubuntu Mobile looks REALLY good) or a newer, updated iPod Touch.