Microsoft Office and it's copyright bull.

[RudolfMDLT]

/rant on

Today we installed a DVD-Writer in my dads PC running Windows XP and Office XP Pro. Office detected the new DVD-Writer and instantly locked itself. It was described as a significant hardware change.

No downloading of emails, no exporting of mail, no saving or editing ANYTHING!

We need to re-activate office - but in order to re-activate it we need the installation disk - which is an ISO at my dad's work which we don't have access to... replacing the new DVD writer with the old cd-writer doesn't help either!

It's days like this I wish I had a pirate copy lying around but this install is as ligit as they come!

Do these buggers have the right to keep track of what hardware you use? and to lock your ability to work? To without human interaction and human judgment just start pulling the plugs!? Bugger Me?

/rant off

See the attachment

[floke]

Words simply fail me.

[phrostbyte]

Hahaha, well if you had a pirate copy it would be likely that WGA was cracked on it and thus you wouldn't have this problem. Only the legit users seem to be bothered by WGA.

You can always try http://www.openoffice.org

:popcorn:

[-grubby]

what BS! How does an Office application have anything to do with a DVD-Writer?

[phrostbyte]

Linux now has this feature too: http://www.linuxgenuineadvantage.org/

[angrykeyboarder]

/rant on

Today we installed a DVD-Writer in my dads PC running Windows XP and Office XP Pro. Office detected the new DVD-Writer and instantly locked itself. It was described as a significant hardware change.

No downloading of emails, no exporting of mail, no saving or editing ANYTHING!

We need to re-activate office - but in order to re-activate it we need the installation disk - which is an ISO at my dad's work which we don't have access to... replacing the new DVD writer with the old cd-writer doesn't help either!

It's days like this I wish I had a pirate copy lying around but this install is as ligit as they come!


See the attachment

If it's legit then why is the installation disk at your Dad's Office and not at home with the PC?

Does he have multiple licenses for MS Office? If not, it can only be installed on one PC.

Strange that it's at his office if the PC is at home....

You should have gone with OpenOffice.org (http://openoffice.bouncer.osuosl.org/?product=OpenOffice.org&os=winwjre&lang=en-US&version=2.3.0) instead. :)

[osxcapades]

Do these buggers have the right to keep track of what hardware you use?

If you use the software (and therefore accept the EULA), then yes, they do.

[juxtaposed]

Crack it.

[FranMichaels]

If you use the software (and therefore accept the EULA), then yes, they do.

++

New way to advertise Ubuntu:
You can install a DVD-writer, and your Office Suite will continue to function. :biggrin:

Seriously though, it's not copyright at fault, it's MS and their DRM. I just do not understand why treating customers in this fashion would encourage buying a copy. Or buying another of the same.

Copyright is important, and Linux would not be what it is without it. Although the GPL is "copyleft" so to speak, basically using copyright to ensure sharing. Love it :)

Maybe it is time to show your dad OOo, and/or Ubuntu. I think Wine runs MS Office. I don't know from first hand experience...

[thx11381974]

This is why I have Kubuntu on my desktop. You should get your dad to try Open Office it works on windows. better yet get him to try Linux too.

[popch]

It would indeed be legit to have a computer with Office at home and the CD at work. Where I work, the license explicitly allows a second install of Office Pro at home provided it's a mobile computer and I am the sole or main user of the second computer.

But then, complaining here is of no use at all. Your dad agreed to the conditions imposed by the license agreement by 'opening' the wrapper of CD he does not have.

If you do not like the terms of use for Microsoft products, do not buy them. Do not use them. Let Microsoft know that you do not like them. Let the press know as well.

[Ebuntor]

/rant on

Today we installed a DVD-Writer in my dads PC running Windows XP and Office XP Pro. Office detected the new DVD-Writer and instantly locked itself. It was described as a significant hardware change.

No downloading of emails, no exporting of mail, no saving or editing ANYTHING!



This was with Office XP? I heard about these problems with Office '07 in Vista but never in XP and with an older Office version.
I haven't used Windows for more then a year, did I miss that much? :confused:

[popch]

On the gripping hand, MS Office entering 'reduced functionality' seems a bit of a rhetoric tautology, anyway.

I second the suggestion to try Open Office.

[smoker]

Office detected the new DVD-Writer and instantly locked itself. It was described as a significant hardware change.

this is no doubt going to happen every time you upgrade the computer, you'll have to decide for yourself if it is worth the hassle. me, i'd be installing openoffice! - then again, i don't have to, it came with ubuntu!

[Spike-X]

it's not copyright at fault, it's MS and their DRM. I just do not understand why treating customers in this fashion would encourage buying a copy. Or buying another of the same.

That's true of DRM in general - the only people it inconveniences are legitimate, paying customers. Treating your paying costumers like potential thieves does not, to me, seem like a sound business model.

Maybe I'm just bitter from having sat through one too many of those "Don't Steal Movies!" things at the start of DVDs I've paid good money for.

[blastus]

/rant on

Today we installed a DVD-Writer in my dads PC running Windows XP and Office XP Pro. Office detected the new DVD-Writer and instantly locked itself. It was described as a significant hardware change.

No downloading of emails, no exporting of mail, no saving or editing ANYTHING!

We need to re-activate office - but in order to re-activate it we need the installation disk - which is an ISO at my dad's work which we don't have access to... replacing the new DVD writer with the old cd-writer doesn't help either!

It's days like this I wish I had a pirate copy lying around but this install is as ligit as they come!

Do these buggers have the right to keep track of what hardware you use? and to lock your ability to work? To without human interaction and human judgment just start pulling the plugs!? Bugger Me?

/rant off

See the attachment

I hate to say it but that's what you get for using genuine Microsoft products. Get rid of it and get something else like OpenOffice.org.

[saulgoode]

http://apcmag.com/vista_activation

[thx11381974]

I wouldn't be surprised if similar validation crap was added to xp in the next service pack. I mean they have to do something to get people to switch to Vista.

[tehhaxorr]

Is that even legal? To lock you out of your software for changing your hardware?

[RudolfMDLT]

Just for the record - It is a ligit copy as the PC was reformatted by the company and everything on it runs XP of some sorts. The reason we don't have the disk is because people like myself would copy it, then crack it and spread it all around! LOL.

I can understand that if we where to ghost the HDD and put a mirror of the drive in 10 machines, sure, then protect your software by locking it - that is to say that if what you detected was a brand new machine, but for goodness sake, if XP and Vista are as advanced as they look, surely they can read a CPU ID, CMOS version ect. and just compare what has changed and what not? Before you waver some one's right you still need some form of a legitimate investigation? I can understand why the EU did what they did to Vista! I've never run anything beyond XP and Office 2000 befor the switch to Ubuntu, but if this is the crap being pulled on an XP level, I don't even want to think what you're gonna have to put up with in Vista?

Just a question for anybody running vista or any body in the know: I change my PC specs a lot each year and I constantly have a friend's HDD i my PC copying stuff across or mine in their PC.... Lets say for some reason I upgade to Vista, will I need to put up with this crap every time I put in new RAM or upgrade the CPU?

[RudolfMDLT]

Just read the article saulgoode posted, for a bunch of really smart and rich people, they certainly know how to get rid of customers quickly!

I would love to get my entire family to Ubuntu but the biggest problem is that the company my dad works for runs windows, using Outlook 2007 and Lotus something for dektop work. So at home my dad also needs to run a companyX approved machine.

I had a good laugh the other day. Office 2007 was too expensive so the company switched to Lotus. But they still had to keep outlook so only upgraded outlook to 2007... Outlook 2007 doesn't like it's older cousin Word XP/2000 so outlook can't type emails in anything but plain text because the text editor it uses is Word. So now they've got people moaning left and right! I think they finally moved all they way over to Lotus - which now has trouble opening some of the Office 2007 templates which the admin office created earlier the year due to what I expect is some form of DRM.

[Spike-X]

Is that even legal? To lock you out of your software for changing your hardware?
When big business can basically buy any legislation they want, sure it is.

[RudolfMDLT]

When big business can basically buy any legislation they want, sure it is.

MMmmmmmmmm......*grumblegrumblegrumblegrumble*.. Bugger them then.

[DoctorMO]

I thought there was a Lotus for Linux from IBM, if they're going that route you should use this example and try and get the company to change it's ways.

As for windows users... well I'd never get a job that required windows use or trust it with personal data so it's moot what I really think. Be more careful the kinds of jobs you get.

[PriceChild]

Is that even legal? To lock you out of your software for changing your hardware?Its their software. You've just bought a license to run it occasionally.

[Bruce M.]

++

Maybe it is time to show your dad OOo, and/or Ubuntu. I think Wine runs MS Office. I don't know from first hand experience...

From WineHQ
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=31

That's a NO for MS Office

[FranMichaels]

From WineHQ
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=31

That's a NO for MS Office

Hmm, looking at wineDB, that is a no for the installer, though those wine versions seem a tad out of date.

Check out Word 2002/XP and the individual MS Office apps entries (at the bottom of the linked page), some users have it working judging from the comments.

So the 64 dollar question is, which apps does the OP's father use primarily?

:popcorn:

[tehhaxorr]

Its their software. You've just bought a license to run it occasionally.

Ok, so they locked you out because of alleged license violations, which, if prove to be false, shouldn't that be taken as a breach of contract? I hope so, because then you'd be entitled to a full refund from Microsoft, because of the breach of contract, in this country anyway...

[Bruce M.]

Hmm, looking at wineDB, that is a no for the installer, though those wine versions seem a tad out of date.

Check out Word 2002/XP and the individual MS Office apps entries (at the bottom of the linked page), some users have it working judging from the comments.

So the 64 dollar question is, which apps does the OP's father use primarily?

:popcorn:

Ooops! Missed that, but you're right, there is the $64,000 question.

[popch]

Ok, so they locked you out because of alleged license violations, which, if prove to be false, shouldn't that be taken as a breach of contract? I hope so, because then you'd be entitled to a full refund from Microsoft, because of the breach of contract, in this country anyway...

Good luck to you and, please, keep us informed. I suggest that you read your license 'agreement' before suing. I would place bets on there being some statements to the effect that Microsoft is not liable if the software you are licensing does not perform any useful function at all, or, indeed, any function whatsoever.

[kwacka]

Surely the problems not MS Office its XP?

Install XP, contact MS, get authorisation to us XP.

Change components in computer, MS says "its not the same computer, you're a pirate". We won't even allow you to use OpenOffice.

Contact MS, say "I've changed mobo/DVD/video card/whatever" they say "here's your new authorisation, we'll now allow you to use the computer and software license you've paid for".

Of course, if you're a business user who travels you're fscked until you get home -all those nice presentations, quotes, et al are useless. You/your company agreed to the deal so there's no comeback if your company collapses.

And for linux users there's no guarantee that you won't have MS problems. There's been German Universities runing SuSE received demands for fees from MS, and at least one US firm has had its computers seized by the FBI after complaints from MS that they may be running MS software - they can wait up to 2 years before they get them back after forensic examination.

Finally, the British Government's advisory group has advised schools not to sign deals with MS & reported them to the Office of Fair Trading. The deal offered MS software under an annual license fee, rather than one large payment up front. Unfortunately, they would have to pay the fee for every computer in the school - whether it was running on MS or not (not unlike the MS deals that they had with HP, Dell, etc - you buy a copy of Windows for every computer you sell - whether the buyer wants it or not).

[anaconda]

I think disabling emai is much more serious than disabling office.. You can always install abiword, opeoffice or use wordpad, but email!!!

You could install thunderbird or something, IF you remember your email settings etc.. but what if you dont remember your mail settings? and who remembers?

That would be a real catastrophe on a business-trip..

One more reason not to use outlook. I wouldn't use it even in windows.. because that is the mail program which is most targeted by worms and viruses..

PS. I think the "disabled" office allows you to read documents and presentations, just not to edit/save them. so if you were on a business-trip you could still show your presentations..

[Lster]

That really does suck. I mean a DVD writer isn't a very big change is it?

[ogwilson]

Tis the life of a windows user. Woe is them. Me as well, but that's why i have and use more than one OS :P

[WiFi Ed]

Just a question for anybody running vista or any body in the know: I change my PC specs a lot each year and I constantly have a friend's HDD i my PC copying stuff across or mine in their PC.... Lets say for some reason I upgade to Vista, will I need to put up with this crap every time I put in new RAM or upgrade the CPU?

Not to defend MS, just for informational purposes only!!

I triple-boot XP, Vista & Ubuntu. I've added a HD, upgraded my video card, added memory twice, added a new DVD burner and changed my CPU. Neither XP or Vista asked (or demanded?) re-activation at any of those steps. I recently installed Office 2007 Home & Student version but haven't made any hardware changes since that time.

Everyone's experience is different, of course, but this has been mine...

[Iceni]

I don't understand how you get these messages?

I've changed both my mobo and cpu without XP giving me any trouble.

[kopinux]

when someone ask my help, and he mentions windows or ms office related i just say "oh sorry i no longer use windows so i dont know how i will help", even to my old man, thats how i convinced him to use ubuntu.

[mistergq]

Its Office 2007.

Unfortunately, I would love to move my office to Linux. Office Suite is the easy part. OpenOffice is an awesome substitute. E-mail/Calendar/Address book / tasks is the next easy part because Evolution is so functional, that is fine too.

My problem is that I need specific applications for my industry that won't run on Wine. Also, I hate to say it, but in the business world, there is no real alternative to Quickbooks. This is especially true since most accountants today want your Quickbooks file. I have come up with using Quickbooks Online, which I may give another chance too. If I get comfortable using that, I am down to two programs I need to change. One program can be replaced if I can get a spreadsheet version. I have not seen a spreadsheet version in years. If I get the spreadsheet I am down to one, which is billing. While I know there are alternatives to the billing, I really need an industry specific one, which is not supported in linux.

Oh, and then there is Blackberry Server, but I have a feeling that one will work with either switching to the novell edition or using Evolution with the MS SMB Server.

[RudolfMDLT]

Hey! I didn't think to look back here! :)


I've changed both my mobo and cpu without XP giving me any trouble.

It's not XP - It's office! :)


I think disabling email is much more serious than disabling office.. You can always install abiword, opeoffice or use wordpad, but email!!!

Yes! We went LOCO! And you can't back it up as far as I could see. This is what REALLY ticked me off to no end. They LOCKED the *.pst file so YOUR email is not accessible because you decided to store it in a Outlook personal folder file. That really sucks! In the end I did make a copy of the Outlook folder, just in case.

Anyway - Just to update you guys; Office didn't want to reactivate, cd and all so the company just installed Office 2003 or something, over wrote the current installation. If this was a personal copy of office and MS told me to fork out another $400 for a new Office because I installed a $40 DVD-Writer I would have cracked it, pirated it, wrote 100 CD's and put 5 in every bathroom on campus... thats not such a bad idea now that I think of it.... ;)

[RudolfMDLT]

Well wouldn't you know it! The first thing I install that repeatedly crashes in Ubuntu is Microsoft Excel 2000! LOL! Crashes after 5 sec's.... Word works though and I'll install IE later and see whether that helps! :)

[laxmanb]

I would use a

[FranMichaels]

Hey! I didn't think to look back here! :)



It's not XP - It's office! :)



Yes! We went LOCO! And you can't back it up as far as I could see. This is what REALLY ticked me off to no end. They LOCKED the *.pst file so YOUR email is not accessible because you decided to store it in a Outlook personal folder file. That really sucks! In the end I did make a copy of the Outlook folder, just in case.

Anyway - Just to update you guys; Office didn't want to reactivate, cd and all so the company just installed Office 2003 or something, over wrote the current installation. If this was a personal copy of office and MS told me to fork out another $400 for a new Office because I installed a $40 DVD-Writer I would have cracked it, pirated it, wrote 100 CD's and put 5 in every bathroom on campus... thats not such a bad idea now that I think of it.... ;)

When it comes to software in general, things don't always work as expected. This occurs with Microsoft DRM, whether it be a false positive or just going overboard. It just makes the software more unreliable in my opinion.

Pirating MS software is in general a bad idea. It keeps people using the software, software dependent on it, and its formats. I know you are kidding, but there would be a big dent in Windows proliferation if its "anti-piracy" measures were really effecting non-customers.


Well wouldn't you know it! The first thing I install that repeatedly crashes in Ubuntu is Microsoft Excel 2000! LOL! Crashes after 5 sec's.... Word works though and I'll install IE later and see whether that helps! :)

That's pretty good all things considered! Are you running the latest version of wine?

http://www.winehq.org/site/download-deb

Or if you want to just download the deb without adding a repository
http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/archive/index.html

P.S. Did you show your father OpenOffice?

If he needs primarily just Word and Excel
Try Gnumeric and Abiword (both in the Ubuntu repositories)

Keep at it! :popcorn:

[Gorgoth]

Ahhh... so glad I don't use my windows box for anything other than games/file server. As it is I almost want to switch over to linux... but the combo of hardware on this machine makes that a pain in the ****.

So til I decide to cough up for a new box, Ill avoid as much microsoft as I can... stick to productivity on my laptop with Mint installed :D

[RudolfMDLT]

@FranMichaels

I was just joking but this:

Pirating MS software is in general a bad idea. It keeps people using the software, software dependent on it, and its formats. I know you are kidding, but there would be a big dent in Windows proliferation if its "anti-piracy" measures were really effecting non-customers.

Is something I didn't think about and is a very true point.

No I haven't shown him open office - We're doing a dual boot install as soon as my exams are finished. Just for him to try.

Thanks for the Wine link but as I play windows games through wine in Linux I've been keeping up to date! :)

[RudolfMDLT]

Ahhh... so glad I don't use my windows box for anything other than games/file server. As it is I almost want to switch over to linux... but the combo of hardware on this machine makes that a pain in the ****.

So til I decide to cough up for a new box, Ill avoid as much microsoft as I can... stick to productivity on my laptop with Mint installed :D

What makes mint better? Just out of interest, what do you find makes mint better than standard Ubuntu?

[bruce89]

What makes mint better? Just out of interest, what do you find makes mint better than standard Ubuntu?

Possibly the fact it's not called Ubuntu (with its associated noobness).

[Dimitriid]

Good luck to you and, please, keep us informed. I suggest that you read your license 'agreement' before suing.

Their licenses have no legal validity on many countries and a class action lawsuit would probably be successful.