Ubuntu Shines on OSNews when compared to Fedora

[oddabe19]

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8964&page=3


Out of the box, Ubuntu is the winner in this test with 6:4 points but that does not mean that Fedora is a bad distro. Both are well planned distributions that really make your everyday Linux-experience a pleasure and will likely lure many users to the Linux-world. And once Fedora adds a better media support, both distros are at equals. Ubuntu and Fedora are in certain respect the pace-setting Gnome distributions and from an end users perspective the distributions to beat (KDE-based distributions are a different matter).

I think the one downfall, is when he was talking about options, he let fedora win because it shipped with 5 cd's... but failed to mention that it only takes 20 minutes to set up Ubuntu vs. an hour or so with fedora.

Very good article, really didn't favor one distro or another.

[TravisNewman]

Yeah, also, Ubuntu has a buttload of packages that you can download easily, they just don't come shipped with the install (which is a good thing, I think)

[Magneto]

Yeah, also, Ubuntu has a buttload of packages that you can download easily, they just don't come shipped with the install (which is a good thing, I think)
*****edited becuz I can't speed read good enuf

Ubuntu keeps coming in #1 or #2 humanity loves humanity it seems.

[mattyh]

I was glad to see the review because, while I feel no need to check out Fedora (I'm too happy w/ Ubuntu atm) I was curious to see how it compared to Ubuntu. Glad to see I'm not missing anything :wink:

[Magneto]

I was glad to see the review because, while I feel no need to check out Fedora (I'm too happy w/ Ubuntu atm) I was curious to see how it compared to Ubuntu. Glad to see I'm not missing anything :wink:
screw that review- fedora is 20 times more buggy than Ubuntu

[jdong]

I have FC3 installed on a tiny partition... I need to test RPM's for one of my robotics projects.

I can say that Ubuntu users are not missing anything! Fedora is extremely sluggish -- especially under heavy loads, Fedora simply bogs down!

I'd have to say I've noticed a lot of GNOME bugginess -- everything from missing icons in pixmaps to strange Nautilus/ g-v-m crashes.

[Magneto]

I have FC3 installed on a tiny partition... I need to test RPM's for one of my robotics projects.

I can say that Ubuntu users are not missing anything! Fedora is extremely sluggish -- especially under heavy loads, Fedora simply bogs down!

I'd have to say I've noticed a lot of GNOME bugginess -- everything from missing icons in pixmaps to strange Nautilus/ g-v-m crashes.
I installed fc3 to take a run at oracle on linux using a supported distro- waste of time
I went through so many circular problems with getting the update app to work it was stupid- i had to use yum. Then everytime I'd try to burn a dvd or do something remotely using X the whole box would go down. Then I discovered that although the wusb11 adapter I have worked fine in FC2 it was beyond broken in FC3 with no resolution. It seriously sucked. The other problems were sufficient enough for me to dump FC. Not to mention the fragmented ISO problems- burn the cd fine- md5 is fine - boot the install disc fine but cant load any software. Never ever had that problem with any other distro. And that goes back to FC1.
FC = F***ing C***sucker

[BWF89]

I think the one downfall, is when he was talking about options, he let fedora win because it shipped with 5 cd's... but failed to mention that it only takes 20 minutes to set up Ubuntu vs. an hour or so with fedora.
What difference does that make? Unless you are planning for your computer to crash every 6 months (like my old Pionex did) why does it matter how long it takes to install? You only do it once. While it's installing take a shower, make a cup of tea, turn on that Playstation and frag some ass in the online word...

But why does Fedora take alot longer to install? Does it come with more programs or something?

[jdong]

But why does Fedora take alot longer to install? Does it come with more programs or something?
In general, the RPM system is slower to install stuff -- I'm not an RPM techie, I don't know why. But just try doing a time on an rpm installation versus an identical .deb.

Plus, Fedora has always been sluggish to me -- BASH autocomplete, on complicated rules (like apt), can easily take 15 seconds to respond -- inexcusable on an Athlon64.

[zenwhen]

If I ever need five cd's worth of crap offered to me during install, now I know where to look.

[jdodson]

i am glad the author was honest. i think that is a very good article, not just because it favors ubuntu, but because he told it how it is.

i am beginning to see more and more that fedora is a buggy distro used to make RHES more stable..... but in the end, its the users that pay for the buggyness. then again, redhat doesnt really hide that fact any. :-&

[senectus]

And don't forget.. mega points off for that freaking horrible "bluecurve" desktop.. yuck! #-o :-&

[Magneto]

i am beginning to see more and more that fedora is a buggy distro used to make RHES more stable..... but in the end, its the users that pay for the buggyness. then again, redhat doesnt really hide that fact any. :-&
Exactly! To me that's trash. No different then MS with beta evaluation versions of OS releases with wider distribution. I wonder how they will hold up as more Linux users move away from them, I guess they have enough cash to begin doing in house testing. I hope they do a Caldera.

[Magneto]

What difference does that make? Unless you are planning for your computer to crash every 6 months (like my old Pionex did) why does it matter how long it takes to install? You only do it once.
It matters when you have to install systems in business. Deploying desktops, building PC's for people, building servers in a business- performing disaster recovery etc.
Time is not a luxury that all of us have to waste. Go checkout gentoo.org if you don't believe me :)

[Magneto]

And don't forget.. mega points off for that freaking horrible "bluecurve" desktop.. yuck! #-o :-&
dont u like little hat icons spread over everything? what's wrong with you?

[arctic]

imho the bluecurve theme is not the most beautiful one but it is a usable one. ad it definitely looks better than winxp *beurk!*
what i like most are the bluecurve icons. they are not bad at all... although i prefer d3a icons or standard gnome-icons. :D

[zenwhen]

imho the bluecurve theme is not the most beautiful one but it is a usable one. ad it definitely looks better than winxp *beurk!*
what i like most are the bluecurve icons. they are not bad at all... although i prefer d3a icons or standard gnome-icons. :D


I use the bluecurve media icons. That's about it.

Oh, and I have been known to use Fedora's Rescue disk for installing Grub when someone needs it.

[piedamaro]

@Magneto,
ok, we all now, u hate fedora, then?
I have it installed and I'd say it hasnt' _one_ of the flaws you mentioned.
More, it works where ubunu fails for me.
In ubuntu I have no sound, no usb, non utopia-magic, in fedora everything works, even adding a new usb printer is automagically recongnized, shared printers are uautomatically loaded at startup. ect.
I need to share a printer in ubuntu, I have seeked into the docs,: aha, manually edit cups.conf? That's fine. Same thiong for smb.conf? Good.
For the moment I'm still with fedora (on which I didn't touch any of these files manually, I don't see a cups.conf since 1999).
I hope ubuntu will address this issues with hoary, which is coming up really nice.

So the point is: you don't like it cause you have had problems. Instead what I do is:
I'm having problem with ubuntu, but I hope they get solved, and in the meantime I don't spread fud on it.

Your are biased, I think that I'm getting tired of reading the same fud over and over.
(not to say that osnews reviews are ridicolous)

[BWF89]

It matters when you have to install systems in business. Deploying desktops, building PC's for people, building servers in a business- performing disaster recovery etc.
Time is not a luxury that all of us have to waste. Go checkout gentoo.org if you don't believe me :)
I was speaking from a home desktop users perspective, if I was deploying Linux in an office that had 5,000 computers I would likely choose the one that took the least amount of the time to install. Provided it was reliable...

[Magneto]

@Magneto,
ok, we all now, u hate fedora, then?
I have it installed and I'd say it hasnt' _one_ of the flaws you mentioned.
More, it works where ubunu fails for me.
In ubuntu I have no sound, no usb, non utopia-magic, in fedora everything works, even adding a new usb printer is automagically recongnized, shared printers are uautomatically loaded at startup. ect.
I need to share a printer in ubuntu, I have seeked into the docs,: aha, manually edit cups.conf? That's fine. Same thiong for smb.conf? Good.
For the moment I'm still with fedora (on which I didn't touch any of these files manually, I don't see a cups.conf since 1999).
I hope ubuntu will address this issues with hoary, which is coming up really nice.

So the point is: you don't like it cause you have had problems. Instead what I do is:
I'm having problem with ubuntu, but I hope they get solved, and in the meantime I don't spread fud on it.

Your are biased, I think that I'm getting tired of reading the same fud over and over.
(not to say that osnews reviews are ridicolous)
@piedmaro- I don't necessarily "hate" too much of anything- that requires too much negative energy.
That's nice that you have fedora installed. Congratulations.

More, it works where ubunu fails for me.
In ubuntu I have no sound, no usb, non utopia-magic, in fedora everything works, even adding a new usb printer is automagically recongnized, shared printers are uautomatically loaded at startup. ect.
I need to share a printer in ubuntu, I have seeked into the docs,: aha, manually edit cups.conf? That's fine. Same thiong for smb.conf? Good.
For the moment I'm still with fedora (on which I didn't touch any of these files manually, I don't see a cups.conf since 1999).

Your exact experiences with Fedora equate to my experiences with Ubuntu. Hoary and Warty. Printers too- I didnt need to modify cups manually the gnome printing app added my ip printer without issue.
I've used more than one release of Fedora for different reasons. I've had FC1 and FC2 running fine after resolving issues but I did not like various things. THAT IS MY PREFERENCE AND OPINION.


So the point is: you don't like it cause you have had problems. Instead what I do is:
I'm having problem with ubuntu, but I hope they get solved, and in the meantime I don't spread fud on it.

Your are biased, I think that I'm getting tired of reading the same fud over and over.

When I have problems with something I try to solve them, if they are unresolvable or do not fit with the resolution times that I see as worth the effort, I will use other options if possible.

If someone places a product on any market and it is supposed to have certain features and those features either are not existent or damaged, it tends to reflect negatively on that product.

I am biased because I have used Redhat and FedoraCore and they do not appeal to me personally for many different reasons.

I responded to jdodson's comments regarding the whole FC distro development deal.

To each his own, I am not the only one to express these feelings about DeadRat on this board or in the Universe.

I could not care less what you are tired of. Please feel free to ignore all my posts on any issue and get off my **** and stop chasing me through different threads with your DeadRat cheerleading. There's millions of people out there who don't like or use RedHat go find some to talk **** to.

My life isnt built around spreading negativity about linux distributions. I couldn't care less. They are all tools. If one doesn't work for you or if you dont care for how one works, choose another. I happen to like Ubuntu because of it's features and philosophy which is my CHOICE. If I no longer CHOOSE to like something about Ubuntu and it leads me to go elsewhere then no tears will be shed, no one will perish, I will move to another OS.

Go have some "problems" with slackware and post to their newsgroup about how trouble free redhat is. That should keep you busy.

If you want to discuss Redhat's history of contribution to opensource or how great their cluster software is that's great and I'd be in agreement on many aspects of those topics, but please stop following me talking **** about how you don't share my view. WTF?

[TravisNewman]

Hoowhee! This has gotten quite heated now. Let's face some facts. Everyone is biased and everyone can post opinions. It's starting to get to flame-war status, and I'd like this thread to stay open and the discussion to stay open and friendly, because there are a lot of good opinions here. Basically:

Let's try to keep this friendly. Let's not flame anymore. Let's try not to get offended at other's opinions.

[Magneto]

dont want you to have to put the thumb down lol
Im not saying anything else on it - cmon people are starving somewhere this is bs

Here this is for all the Fedora lovers in Italy - Fedora is the second greatest OS in that review. :)

[piedamaro]

dont want you to have to put the thumb down lol
Im not saying anything else on it - cmon people are starving somewhere this is bs

Here this is for all the Fedora lovers in Italy - Fedora is the second greatest OS in that review. :)
Are you feeling chased because I've answered a couple of time to your vulgar comments about fedora?
Lasr post of mine was like a week ago, and fear not, I'm not following you, I just don't like who don't loose a chance to talk bad about something, and if you can't stand my opiniom, ignore my posts as well.

[Magneto]

Are you feeling chased because I've answered a couple of time to your vulgar comments about fedora?
Lasr post of mine was like a week ago, and fear not, I'm not following you, I just don't like who don't loose a chance to talk bad about something, and if you can't stand my opiniom, ignore my posts as well.
lol - I never said I can't stand your opinion piedmaro- Everyone has opinions, its part of interacting with people. I only have issues with your attempts to quiet my opinion.

I just don't like who don't loose a chance to talk bad about something,
Relax a little. Everyone doesn't like the same things. You're being a little presumptuous in viewing my remarks about Fedora as making me a person who doesn't miss a chance to be negative. You're being a little negative yourself currently, just something to think on.

Let's not hijack this thread either.

I like Ubuntu more than any other distribution because of

1. Ubuntu- the humanity concept - the fact its African and the overall philosophy/direction they are headed.

2. The Developers- I've seen bugs fixed in less than an hour in the "development" branch- to me that's crazy - and very beautiful

3.apt-get - best app - emerge is a close second

4. Kno Kde - kde kirritates kthe kshit koutta kme ksometimes

5. The community - that includes you Don Fedora

[piedamaro]

I have to say I agree totally with your 5 points, and above all there was nothing personal, really. I just wanted to point out that my experience is different, and I don't want to quiet your opinion.
I like ubuntu's way of doing things a _lot_ and there are things that I hate in fedora as well. Anyway it's the distro that I'm most used to, so I still find that some stuff works better on fedora (for me of course), but I'm waiting to see the equivalent on ubuntu.

I'm glad we have somewhat clarified the situation.
Wow now I have a new nick: Don Fedora! *lol*

[TravisNewman]

It's good to see the dissent in the ranks has quieted down :)

And I love the kway kyou kused kk's Magneto. I hate it too.

[Buffalo Soldier]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post in ubuntuforum. My first experience with linux was in 1997 (caldera & redhat 4.x if I'm not mistaken). But with my very little knowledge and young age I had a lot of problems and abandoned linux and went back to the Dark Side.

But a month ago I had the strong urge to give Linux one more try after reading some great reviews about SimplyMEPIS (and maybe I have too much time now that I'm not working).

I was surprised that linux now has become real user friendly. So this past 1 month I've been trying many distro (mepis, FC, ubuntu, suse). The clear winner for me is Ubuntu. I'm not saying other distros are not good. They are great in their own way. But for my personal use n taste (love the default ubuntu theme) ubuntu is for me.

But hey... linux is about choice right? I'm glad for all the choice of distro we have right now.... Anyway congratulation to Ubuntu team. You guys/gals did a great job. Lots of love & ubuntu from us in Malaysia to you ppl in Afrika.

[Magneto]

My apologies for getting vulgar - Fedora brings out the worst in me :-) jk, but the reason fedora sets me off is numerous times Ive tried to go to Redhat for the package management because I got tired of having a haphazard system in Slackware and tired of scrambling to find binaries and building everything from source myself. And everytime I'd get close to the system I wanted I got screwed. Ximian Gnome- no uninstall option. wtf? man that pissed me off. Then I had a pretty buggy just released FC3 and that thing was crazy on my server. So that frustrated me to no end. I know I could have a stable box with a new version of RedHat but I refuse to pay for linux for home use. So after slackware Gentoo fit all my needs - everything I wanted software and configuration wise- nothing installed but I wanted except for some dependencies but it is "time-bloat"ware so Ubuntu was a great fit.

I have had problems with Ubuntu but nothing that pushed me away, yet :-? Hey we all like what works for us
I guy in the forums earlier said he wants to go back to freebsd becuz the xf86 version in Ubuntu only gives him 800x600 - good reason too lol

glad this can get pleasant again - thats another reason I like ubuntu everyone is real cool



panickedthumb- kde kjust kseems kso kdamn kstupid kokaykokay ki kknow kgnome kfeet kon keverything kcan kget kdumb kbut kde kjust kis kwack - kman kdo kyou kknow kslackware kmight kdrop kgnome?
Gnome>kde and Openbox>all

[inha]

About fedora being a testing platform for RHEL: That's exactly what it is. Ask any fedora developer or RHEL developer. I think it's been pointed out quite explicitly by the fedora team on several instances. I don't quite see why anyone would be pissed off at RH for that since it's not like it's a scam or secret or anything.

My only gripe with FC (2, I haven't tried 3) is that too much stuff is enabled my default so you have to tweak it for a bit to make it perform better. Getting the full multimedia capabilities was just as easy on it as it is on ubuntu.

Emerge>everything. Damn I love it for package management.

[HungSquirrel]

I never had much luck with emerge. In fact it was the only thing that got between me and a full Gentoo system. Every time I tried (which I did three different times), I would either have problems resolving mirrors, dependency problems (e.g. a package referring to an older version of another package and not accepting the newer version that had propogated to all the mirrors), or a combination thereof.

Maybe I was unlucky. More likely I just didn't know WTF I was doing. :)

[inha]

I never had much luck with emerge. In fact it was the only thing that got between me and a full Gentoo system. Every time I tried (which I did three different times), I would either have problems resolving mirrors, dependency problems (e.g. a package referring to an older version of another package and not accepting the newer version that had propogated to all the mirrors), or a combination thereof.

Maybe I was unlucky. More likely I just didn't know WTF I was doing. :)

Did you emerge sync regularly?

Mirrorselect's output to my make.conf was always weird jibberish but then I just manually added a couple of mirrors close to me into make.conf and everything worked just fine. I never had any dependency issues but that's completely dependent on what software you prefer though.

[arctic]

with respect to the fc3 vs ubuntu "war": keep in mind that this review was just ponting out how the distros worked on some particular hardware. although there have been used info from the forums, not every imaginable hardware constellation can be taken into account. a different box will automatically result in a different "feeling" of ubuntu or fc3. ubuntu might work on box a but not box b = the user with box a will tell "ubuntu is heaven" while the user with bix b will tell that ubuntu is "****".

every user has his very own expectations to a distro, too. while one might want an easy and stable office-distro, the other one is more concerned about server stuff or wants e.g. a system for hacking/tweaking everything from source. thus, every user will rate systems differently. so please respect that and stop telling "you fool are wrong".

btw. about gentoo and emerge: i got gentoo installed but emerge doesn't work properly on my box, too. i think i will replace gentoo with ubuntu, because i do not want to spend hours on tweaking my box before i can actually use it. (i wasted imho already enough time(days) with the gentoo-installation).

[Magneto]

dang you guys must be doing something really wrong for emerge not to work, my problem was never emerge, it was the amount of time involved in emerge openoffice or similar apps youd like to use sometime the same day- and this was on a fast system- just got tired of compile times

[DoubleDangerClub]

I tried Fedora, Mandrake, and Suse this last month and of course Ubuntu. Here are my findings:

Fedora:
Too many CDs. Too sluggish. No NTFS support (and none made for FC3). Update app was a pain.

Mandrake:
Please. Eye candy at best.

Suse:
Okay. Again, too many CDs. Just didn't feel right. Not a fan of KDE.

Ubuntu:
Good. Solid. Open. Really speedy. Really small install. Clean.

So that's what I found.

DDC

[jdodson]

I tried Fedora, Mandrake, and Suse this last month and of course Ubuntu. Here are my findings:

Fedora:
Too many CDs. Too sluggish. No NTFS support (and none made for FC3). Update app was a pain.

Mandrake:
Please. Eye candy at best.

Suse:
Okay. Again, too many CDs. Just didn't feel right. Not a fan of KDE.

Ubuntu:
Good. Solid. Open. Really speedy. Really small install. Clean.

So that's what I found.

DDC


Fedora: Cool server(this is what it is really good for imo), desktop from clunky slow land, yum slow, need more packages.

Mandrake: Fine server, desktop from candy land, had to build everything from source cause of RPM hell, need more packages, 4-5 cds and still didnt have everything i wanted.

Suse: No idea on server, desktop looks bad imo, way too many packages, not really sure why this is better than fedora.

Ubuntu: Fine server(yeah i still prefer fedora, i guess cause i am just used to it more), desktop from heaven apt-get is awesome(though i would still like to see more packages), good community support, quickest gnu/linux desktop i have seen to date.

[arctic]

if you had to compile everything from source in mandrake, i think you either didn't know how to use urpmi/easyurpmi or you were using a rather old version... and about packages: there are over 6000 packages for mandrake. so, it is not all that bad. ;)

[jdodson]

if you had to compile everything from source in mandrake, i think you either didn't know how to use urpmi/easyurpmi or you were using a rather old version... and about packages: there are over 6000 packages for mandrake. so, it is not all that bad. ;)

i was on netzero 10 hours a month win only dialup, which meant i had to download the RPMs and install them in mandrake. sometimes some RPMs were available to club members only(like the dhcp server, funny note i actually used the fedora one and it worked flawlessly:)). albiet dialup issues not a fault of mandrake, but still annoying. i think in the end i realized that mandrake would do whatever it could to be profitable. it nags you to purchase at every turn. plus i remember awhile ago they were going to put ads in the install screen and default webbrowser(which i have not seen myself). i personally like the totally free as in freedom aspect of ubuntu even though i add much non-free software to the works(w32codecs & mp3 mainly). it seems that at any time mandrake can drop the free downloads if it wants, that would leave me SOL as i am a cheapskate and dont want to pay for an OS. in the end mandrake seemed to commercial.

though i can see why it would be cool for a new user to try, it is done very well as far as astetics and ease of configuration goes.

[piedamaro]

Fedora:
No NTFS support (and none made for FC3). Update app was a pain.

Ehm...wrong. Ever tried to go at ntfs.sourceforge project and download the ntfs fedora kernel module? Clearly not.

I'm using:

Fedora3 (I couldn't compile a kernel which doesn't panic at boot, this is _so bad_)
Gentoo (compiling the kernel it's a pleasure, most of the configuration is auto-guessed)

Ubuntu on my sister's box (haven't tried it yet)

Not that I don't want ubuntu on my box, it's beacuse I've already 6 partitions on 1 disk,
so I've preferred to give it to my sister. (btw she's just fine with ubuntu :) )
I like to chroot into gentoo if I have to emerge something quickly, and I usually have some vnc or ssh sesions opened, so it's like to work with 3 distros at the same time :P

[Magneto]

Ehm...wrong. Ever tried to go at ntfs.sourceforge project and download the ntfs fedora kernel module? Clearly not.

I'm using:

Fedora3 (I couldn't compile a kernel which doesn't panic at boot, this is _so bad_)
Gentoo (compiling the kernel it's a pleasure, most of the configuration is auto-guessed)


ntfs module took me about 2 minutes on google when I was using Fedora.
Im guessing that is similar to the lame MP3 support issue (wma,wmv,rm,mov etc)

fc3 is aggravating you? LOL who'd have thought
I just dumped fc3 and got fc2 and updated what i needed - i threw those fc3 disks out lol

[wallijonn]

From the first link:


The big question is: why does Fedora ship with tools like Totem or Rhythmbox at all, if they are almost completely useless?

I thought this was the charge levelled at Ubuntu.

I would like to think that Ubuntu's forum had a lot to do with it being considered workable versus Fedora's forums which may not have supplied end user answers.

I'm glad that Fedora Core 3 has GNOME 2.8 but it is too late for me - I'm on Ubuntu and I'm not changing for anyone. I don't like seeing that ugly GNOME home icon, just as I can no longer stand seeing the KDE Crystal theme.

[jdong]

They aren't completely dysfunctional... and I'm not thrilled about Fedora castrating KDE, either... To get full kde functionality, I had to resort to making new RPM's for FC2, and it took me forever to find the spec file, but anyways -- that's my own stupidity at work!


P.S. Are we finished fighting over the 'my OS is biggger than yours' war?

[eBopBob]

P.S. Are we finished fighting over the 'my OS is biggger than yours' war?
lol - To be totally honest, I'm quite surprised to see them fighting about this since this forum is really for Ubuntu. It wouldn't be that bad had it been two different versions of Ubuntu, but really, Ubuntu and Fedora?


EDIT: Boy do I hate that quick reply auto-checked "quote above post" ](*,)

[arctic]

:lol: well many users have used fedora before or use it still on a second partition. thus it is not so unusual that some will state that fedore does suit their purposes better while others will not see/accept that. in the end, it is a bit idiotic. the review pointed out that both systems are very good for everday use. for the media-afficionados, ubuntu is simply offering a bit more as it seems. (there are still many rants in fedora forums about media support while they are nearly nonexistent in here...)

[DoubleDangerClub]

Ehm...wrong. Ever tried to go at ntfs.sourceforge project and download the ntfs fedora kernel module? Clearly not.

Did you notice I didn't mention SourceForge? "Clearly Not"
I was using a test release of FC3 at the time and they didn't have a sourceforge rpm for it at the time. If you go to their page, you can see they didn't have it made until the week of thanksgiving. When was FC3 released? Oh yeah...about 2-3 weeks before that.

Anyhow, I also meant that they do not have ntfs support in the distro itself. That is lame.

I didn't mean offense, but please do your research and at least ask before you get catty. Thanks. :)

[jselfridge]

[-( Fedora and Ubuntu are both great distros, and they both have thier pro's and con's. Allow me to demonstrate:
:KS (Ubuntu ships on one cd)--that does reduce bloat BUT with Fedora having 5 cd's comes in handy to quickly install many more needed packages such as server apps, and development libraries, another problem with the one cd install is security. Sudo is great, but it cannot replace a firewall.
:KS (Ubuntu does not come with SELinux) SELinux improves security BUT SELinux can be a pain to smooth out, and is not allways "Just Works" tecnolagy
:KS (Ubuntu has a fantastic apt repository) Apt/Synaptic is more mature than Yum BUT APT/Synaptic have destroyed 2 Ubuntu installations due to package breakage --I admit user error-- however YUMEX/YUM has never broke any installation in my experiance
(Ubuntu makes it easier to install multimedia components) Ubuntu lists the repos nessesary in the sources.list BUT You can get multimedia up and running just as easy after you set up the aproriate repo.conf's
:KS (Ubuntu icludes many system admin tools) Theese are a big help BUT this is one area that Fedora's maturity really shines Ubuntu's admin tools are not allways able to do what I need to do. for instance: I have a REAL hard time configuring run levels with Ubuntu's service manager. Fedora is no problem. Try to modify your display settings in Kubuntu and your x server will fail next time you restart it. And so forth!

That said I tip my hat to both the Fedora Developers and the Ubuntu ones ;) . I enjoy using both desktops, and thank all the developers that have made Linux such a great OS. Ubuntu is advancing rapidly as well as their sys admin tools. They have gotten better with each Ubuntu release, and I really like the default theme. Kubuntu is one of the best KDE distros, which I have along with FC5 on my machine at home. I am honored to reccomend either distro to my family, friends, and customers.
On another note Fedora is pioneering AIGLX, and it looks to be a much better solution than XGL. I hope that Ubuntu follows Fedora on ths one.