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View Full Version : Are linux "elitist coders" and casual users antagonist? I dont' think so



jobezone
August 22nd, 2005, 02:49 AM
"This is really what's wrong: Coders don't care. Elitists don't care. Linux is controlled by coders and elitists." Answer: If coders or "elitists" weren't controlling linux, linux wouldn't exist. Period. This isn't even disputable.

I'm back to commenting on old blog comments again, and this is what I wrote following the quoted comment above, here http://skaznak.blogspot.com/2005/08/insight-gnu-source-installer.html. People may think I have some special agravation or dislike for autopackage, but what I really dislike is some of the nonsense or half-truths that usually arise when people get together and discuss these matters. It does in no way mean, that I live in a happy, happy place, far, far away inside my mind, where all is good and fine with free software and its usability.

Anyway, here it begins:

" "This is really what's wrong: Coders don't care. Elitists don't care. Linux is controlled by coders and elitists."

If coders or "elitists" weren't controlling linux, linux wouldn't exist. Period. This isn't even disputable.

Linux, or free software development in general, has over the years been developed with programmers, coders, engineers mostly in the helm, of course with many exceptions. But in the majority this is still true today. These various and diverse group of people have been developing some part of this huge ecosystem.

The most positive outcome of this is the lack of virus, spyware, and less instability, breakage, and lack of most of the obscure problems which plague other rushed-to-complete-the-deadline systems. These kinds of problems are the most obscure and unintuitive to users: They can't understand what happened with their system, why it happened, and what they can do about it.

The less positive outcome has been a lack of usability design oriented to non knowledgable users, such as desktop, gammers, etc. users. But nevertheless effort has always been made towards this over the years. The most recent developments of both Gnome and KDE putting into use usability principles on the design of their desktops, being a prime example of this.
In fact, any piece of graphical software you see on your system is usually at the head of a long line of previous less usable software (graphical or not). For example, the first proponent of easy package management in Debian was apt-get (and still is, the reason why many use it still). From there, new ideas arised, and dselect gave a visual window to package management. Then aptitude, which improved on the interface, and introduced new important features.
Now synaptic, which while it lost some cool funcionality of aptitude, gave a full graphical and easy acess to package management. Tomorrow gnome-app-install which abstracts the packages into applications, making it easier to browse, search and install applications.

In the future, who knows? The point will always be to make it easier _and_ better for users of any kind to completely manage software when using a Debian system. Easier and more intuitive to use, but also stable, secure and functional.

This is what these "elitist" coders have been developing over the years. Perhaps slower than others, but better as well."

Brunellus
August 22nd, 2005, 05:44 AM
I'm willing to let the 1337 get on with their jobs...because, in the end, I still have the choice of using or not using their software.

The happy thing is that their efforts work for *me*, mostly. that's all that matters.

Now, I'm not very knowledgable, compared to the people who actually *contribute* to the linux ecosystem. I'm a consumer, not a producer--and yet, I actually, genuinely like linux--enough to want to learn more about it as each opportunity presents itself, and help people learn what I have already learned.

I do however feel that people should do the developers the favor of at least bothering to learn how to use things before complaining "OMFG, it doesn't work! linux SUX!" If telling people to suck it up and learn something new every now and again is elitist, well...I'm guilty as charged, but plead my lack of 1337 5|<11Lz as an exenuating circumstance...

weasel fierce
August 22nd, 2005, 06:54 AM
How receptive are the Microsoft coders to the public ?

poofyhairguy
August 22nd, 2005, 07:31 AM
The less positive outcome has been a lack of usability design oriented to non knowledgable users, such as desktop, gammers, etc. users.

This is false. Linux is bigger than the desktop. From my own how to:



Misconception 3: “Linux is hard to use”

This one is the worst, buts its also the easiest to debunk. Explain to them that Linux CAN be hard to use, but it doesn’t have to be. Tell them that Tivo uses Linux (bonus point if they have one) but none of its customers complain that its hard to use. Explain that Motorola uses Linux, and it would be foolish for them to sell a cell phone that is hard to use. Also tell them “Google uses Linux, and their site is easy to use- isn’t it?”

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=58862&page=1&pp=10

drizek
August 22nd, 2005, 07:34 AM
How receptive are the Microsoft coders to the public ?
not to the public, but they do have average people who come and do usability tests on their products.

they dont a do a very good job of it though.

and i dont really get what this elitist coder thing is. from the blogs/bugs/changelogs that i read, most developers are trying to make giood easy to use apps.

Stormy Eyes
August 22nd, 2005, 01:04 PM
and i dont really get what this elitist coder thing is. from the blogs/bugs/changelogs that i read, most developers are trying to make giood easy to use apps.

Some people, no matter how much you do, are nothing but ungrateful, impossible-to-please swine. They should not be allowed to matter.

kahping
August 22nd, 2005, 01:49 PM
Some people, no matter how much you do, are nothing but ungrateful, impossible-to-please swine. They should not be allowed to matter.

I have to agree. Some people just want to own a PC for the bragging rights, but aren't willing to learn how to use or maintain it properly. I've been a long time Windows user and i've had 0 virus problems and very little spyware problems while using it. Now i use Ubuntu, and it's even better than Windows.

I just don't get how anybody could get their PCs infected in the first place. I'm speechless just thinking about it :-#

kahping

blinksilver
August 22nd, 2005, 03:55 PM
i don't know about you guys, but I sure as heck am an elitist coder, nothing but assembly for me, and yes I have no desktop, its just a high res framebuffer, the best web browser in the world is clearly lynx, and the mouse is for newb, speaking of newbs, it breakfast time, time for me to go eat some newb, (yum newbie blood)

meant to be a joke.

KingBahamut
August 22nd, 2005, 04:06 PM
To answer the question in the post title.....no.

I was a dorky utterly socially inept that lived in my moms basement until I was 35 years old, that was constantly beat up upon by the local bullies for my utter geekiness. Now...when the same individuals that were just as guilty of that come to me for help...yes....I feel justified in giving them a hard time or laughing at them for their inability.

That all aside.....Im just a normal guy that likes to help people understand there is an alternative that will help them save money and keep them in a stable workspace.

Stormy Eyes
August 22nd, 2005, 04:07 PM
Some people just want to own a PC for the bragging rights, but aren't willing to learn how to use or maintain it properly.

You've nailed it. People look at a PC and think it's like any other appliance, like a refrigerator or a toaster or a television. They fail to understand that appliances, like refrigerators, are somewhat complex machines designed to perform a single function. A PC, on the other hand, is not meant to perform a single function, but to be capable of performing any function that a programmer can design and implement in instructions that the PC can process. As such, it is much more complex and therefore requires a certain amount of understanding on the user's part.

jobezone
August 22nd, 2005, 04:38 PM
This is false. Linux is bigger than the desktop. From my own how to:



http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=58862&page=1&pp=10
Well, ok. I was mostly talking about a complete free software home desktop system, and the home computer user experience, of which linux, the kernel, is part of. But true, linux, or some part or other of free software is present in the most user-friendly places. A example of almost 100% free software being used is the Nokia 770 tablet http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,1522,,00.html?orig=/770. And there must be hundreds of other cases, where we just don't know (or I can't remember).