Is this the moment?

[aaargh486]

Am I seeing this wrong or could this be the moment where Ubuntu will take over?

Gutsy Gibbon is just released and is without any doubt :KS AWESOME :KS.
Feisty was good too, but in my opinion, while it is it is purrfect for someone like me who loves to fiddle with it, I'm pretty sure most of my friends couldn't solve the problems I faced (damn you NVIDIA and your proprietary drivers)

On the other hand we have Windows Vista, which (from my point of view, I worked years on 2000 and XP) sucks big time.
Mac users are on a transition with Leopard (or some other feline) coming out.



Maybe now is the time we have to remind users all over the world they don't have to hundreds of dolalrs for Vista or 129$ for a Mac upgrade.
Maybe now we have to tell them that you can get better, for free!

Am I delusional because of the adrenaline rushing through my veins because of Gutsy's AWESOMNESS, or do I have a point here?

[fuscia]

take over? most normal people have still never heard of linux.

[hessiess]

linux will not take over untill sound qualaty is ecwel to windose, no matter what audio card you use. and playing of dvd/mp3 out of the box. aswell as better wireless chipset support

[geeree]

Am I seeing this wrong or could this be the moment where Ubuntu will take over?

I recently helped a friend in installing both Windows Vista and Gutsy Gibbon on his computer and concluded that Ubuntu needs to improve its installation/upgrade process.


The process needs to be more transparent. One in which the installer tells you, in simple terms, what it is doing with your computer.
Problems with unsupported hardware need to be explained. What is unsupported hardware? Why does it exist? How to use it?

There is a large class of people who have heard Linux is good and would want to try it, but won't because they simply don't have enough time understanding or troubleshooting the issues. This isn't merely about proprietary drivers. This friend of mine first complained when he had problems with his display — a potential reason for moving back to Vista — but when I explained problems about NVIDIA, etc. he appreciated and went ahead exploring his new OS. He admired that fact that Ubuntu helped him remain legal, secure and more knowledgeable with his computer, for a lower cost.

Girish.

[happysmileman]

linux will not take over untill sound qualaty is ecwel to windose, no matter what audio card you use

Well both my 2002 computer that came with Windows XP and my older one that came with Windows 98 SE (no idea how old) fail to recognise my sound card at all. Linux works out of the box on both, and I can't tell a difference between MP3 on Linux and MP3 on Windows, and OGG sounds better on Linux. Though WMA files do sound more fuzzy on Linux, but MP3 is the standard (unfortunately for those who want an open-standard)

[crimesaucer]

I think the big release will be the next LTS release... 6 months from now.

With a new OS theme and 6 more months of improvements, Hardy Heron will probably be the Ubuntu OS to really break into the mainstream... not to say Ubuntu isn't already very popular.

[Vansinnesvisan]

Developers decide the fate of an OS. Ballmer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE&mode=related&search=) knows this well.

[n3tfury]

Well both my 2002 computer that came with Windows XP and my older one that came with Windows 98 SE (no idea how old) fail to recognise my sound card at all. Linux works out of the box on both, and I can't tell a difference between MP3 on Linux and MP3 on Windows, and OGG sounds better on Linux. Though WMA files do sound more fuzzy on Linux, but MP3 is the standard (unfortunately for those who want an open-standard)

until you a/b'd and have performed double-blind tests, you can't make any of those claims. ogg sounds better on linux? let me guess, because it's open source? sounds like the dreaded placebo effect.

[justin whitaker]

take over? most normal people have still never heard of linux.

QFT.

I told my sister in law about an idea to start a consultant firm based on Linux for Small Businesses, and she asked "What is Linux?"

We have a long way to go.

[ssam]

The process needs to be more transparent. One in which the installer tells you, in simple terms, what it is doing with your computer.

are there specific parts you find unclear? can you suggest better ways of wording things?

if so could you file some bugs. this might be a simple thing to fix.

[osxcapades]

Am I seeing this wrong or could this be the moment where Ubuntu will take over?

You are seeing this wrong.

Ladies and gentlemen, please repeat after me:

At present, Windows dominates the desktop operating system market.

[p_quarles]

:shock: Seriously? No one here had any idea.

[aaargh486]

You are seeing this wrong.

Ladies and gentlemen, please repeat after me:

At present, Windows dominates the desktop operating system market.

I know that, silly :) .
That's just what I'm wondering about, will Vista's inferior quality (from my POV, feel free to disagree) and Gutsy new fantastic improvements maybe make some cracks in Windows' Market Share.

[derekr44]

While Vista has it's problems, it was actually a good move in general for Microsoft. A friend across the street told me that he hated having to enter an administrative password any time he needed to change something. Isn't that what *nix does too? A lot of the things under Vista's hood were *nix-like but lacked the solidarity of *nix itself. XP had it's problems for a long time after it came out as well and it ended up moderately solid. And look at the firm grip XP has on the market today.

As good as Linux is, there will have to be some MUCH bigger changes in order for the OS race to change sides. This is really only the beginning.

[lyceum]

The way I see it, we have about 2 to 3 years to "take over". No one likes Vista, and XP is out dated. If MS stops updating/bug fixing/supporting XP, more people will be looking for something, and Macs cost to much. I think 8.04 will be the turning point for Ubuntu. If Dell can get more Ubuntu PCs preinstalled so there is a big name with options to send people to, there will be a giant leap in the right direction. The only thing stopping me from getting a dell is that they do not offer what I want with Ubuntu pre installed. But if MS gets the next OS out and it actually works (unlike Vista) they will just keep the market. I do think that 7.10 was a huge step, but we still need better link up with cal phones and PDAs. Printers are really getting there and MS got ordered by the EU to tell everyone how their printer hookup works. That may help as well. Things are going in the right direction.

My 2 cents

:guitar:

[Billy_McBong]

A lot of the things under Vista's hood were *nix-like but lacked the solidarity of *nix itself.
care to explain a little, i haven't used vista very much but it didn't seem like a *nix system at all

and i think with some help from dell hardy heron could get a lot more people to switch to Linux

[igknighted]

linux will not take over untill sound qualaty is ecwel to windose, no matter what audio card you use. and playing of dvd/mp3 out of the box. aswell as better wireless chipset support

Sigh... try fedora and/or pulse audio... it's a far better sound mixer than windows. It will be standard on other distros very soon. Also, Windows itself does not come with all the necessary codecs, you need to get them with applications or sometimes from various websites (DivX comes to mind as a tough one to get). At least with linux you get them all in the same place... which is better than windows can say. Finally, wireless is something that Vista does very well... aside from the complete lack of support for older wireless cards. Most newer cards work with Vista OOTB, but many older ones have no support whatsoever. Linux may not support the latest and greatest as well, but that 3/4 year old USB dongle you have laying around will almost certainly work.

Besides, you will never see mass windows adoption amongst users dowloading and installing it themselves... IF it comes it will be in the form of businesses and schools buying linux PCs because they are cheaper and more secure, and people will see what linux can do. Then, and only then, will they go to Dell or another OEM and buy it. These people will never do the install, they will buy HW that simply works. So this lack of support for exotic hardware is simply not a major concern.

@ the OP... this is not linux time. Perhaps down the road when XP fades out. But linux has been at the level for several years (Ubuntu has been a part of this, but is hardly the top candidate or the driving force for mass adoptation) that it is more than good enough. The issue is not "if only we could make it a little better", the issue is "if only people were exposed to it without them having to make the leap". So get it in schools, get it in businesses. Then you will see it creep into homes as well.

[derekr44]

care to explain a little, i haven't used vista very much but it didn't seem like a *nix system at all



Drivers running in user mode (kinda)
Memory heap management
Re-written network stack
Aero (Compiz/Beryl/Mac copycat)... ever notice that 90% of compiz themes look like Aero?
IE7 browser runs in low-level user mode, reducing ActiveX access to underlying kernel


Although some of these don't necessarily work the way they should, you can still see that MS at least made an attempt to change they underlying system. They attempted to get drivers to run in user mode instead of at the system level in order to prevent system crashes. They made IE7 run in a low-level user mode to keep ActiveX from accessing critical system files. This, in a sense, is similar to *nix's method of keeping user and system processes separate for security and is one of the major reasons why *nix is so secure.

I'm not boasting the performance or solidarity of Vista at all. I think it's a broken OS that shouldn't have been released. But I think that MS made a step in the right direction by looking at the major flaws of previous Windows kernel code and attempting to change it.

[igknighted]

Drivers running in user mode (kinda)
Memory heap management
Re-written network stack
Aero (Compiz/Beryl/Mac copycat)... ever notice that 90% of compiz themes look like Aero?
IE7 browser runs in low-level user mode, reducing ActiveX access to underlying kernel


Although some of these don't necessarily work the way they should, you can still see that MS at least made an attempt to change they underlying system. They attempted to get drivers to run in user mode instead of at the system level in order to prevent system crashes. They made IE7 run in a low-level user mode to keep ActiveX from accessing critical system files. This, in a sense, is similar to *nix's method of keeping user and system processes separate for security and is one of the major reasons why *nix is so secure.

I'm not boasting the performance or solidarity of Vista at all. I think it's a broken OS that shouldn't have been released. But I think that MS made a step in the right direction by looking at the major flaws of previous Windows kernel code and attempting to change it.

+1, I agree completely with these thoughts. The whole "Vista is just a re-themed XP" arguement is total BS. If you argued that in relation to Win2k and XP I would agree. But Vista is a major step for microsoft towards a more stable ans secure OS.

That said, it is still hampered by horribly restrictive licensing, it is still very expensive (like all MS programs), and it is still very rough around the edges. Time (and SP1) may heal the last one, but XP is still broken to the core. Vista > XP any day, but only as a last resort (say my hardware wasn't supported by *nix).

EDIT: Actually this reminds me a lot of Edgy. People loved 6.06, and didn't see many advantages to using 6.10. They claimed "nothing has changed". But looking back, Edgy was where it all changed. The boot sequence, lots of other underlying code, xorg 7.1 (with aiglx)... these changes were not all the visible to the user, and the drastic changes tended to make the system a little less stable... just like vista.

[n3tfury]

[LIST]
Aero (Compiz/Beryl/Mac copycat)... ever notice that 90% of compiz themes look like Aero?


and they name them or describe them as such. how is Vista copying linux in that fashion?

[happysmileman]

until you a/b'd and have performed double-blind tests, you can't make any of those claims. ogg sounds better on linux? let me guess, because it's open source? sounds like the dreaded placebo effect.

It sounds better than on WMP, I'm not claiming it sounds better on all Media players for Windows, but to even get it to work on WMP you need an additional plugin, and last time I checked(over a year ago I'll admit) it sounded a lot more fuzzy than on Linux, though that was soon before Windows failed to play sound at all so maybe that was it

[Mr. Picklesworth]

For Ubuntu to become a major player, we would need a clever group with a lot of time on their hands to create a sellable boxed Ubuntu package.
I don't mean an evil attempt to take advantage of free software; I mean a package that has the latest Ubuntu desktop live cd and alternate installer, a nice box, a concise instruction booklet, a year's software support services, and a reasonable chunk of cost going to free software developers associated with Ubuntu (Canonical, the GNOME foundation, Sourceforge, etc.).

I think such a thing would work better than waiting for Ubuntu to be packaged with hardware, because there are a lot of people out there looking for an alternative after getting Vista with off-the-shelf hardware, but they don't like the price of XP (or Microsoft).

The dillemma with Ubuntu being freely available comes up here. Normally, it is well and good to recommend it to someone. However, those folks (probably a significant majority) who just bought off-the-shelf PCs will be going back to the store again, talking to the sales-people. Those sales-people can't recommend Ubuntu, even if they want to, because it will not earn profit. If they have a box to point to from which their company can earn some money, however, they can and will be able to sell it quite easily. To have a grasp of the casual market is a matter of being recognized by those people, and those people gather a surprising ammount of their information from computer stores.

Ubuntu (and really any dekstop Linux OS) actually has a lot of interesting selling points, completely recognizable to the average user, where other proprietary OSes don't even come close. For example: Accessibility (font sizes, translations, high contrast themes), piles of software that comes with the OS and free updates for life. Those are not just strengths or weaknesses compared to other systems; those are completely unique features. While with Mac vs. Windows - where the argument seems to be how intuitive it is, how pretty it is, where the Close button is, whether accounting software works (in either case, at the moment, "No"; Vista killed all of them), or little features of individual applications - with Ubuntu, mathematical comparisons needn't even come in to play! Sales people love that.

[p_quarles]

I mean a package that has the latest Ubuntu desktop live cd and alternate installer, a nice box, a concise instruction booklet, a year's software support services, and a reasonable chunk of cost going to free software developers associated with Ubuntu (Canonical, the GNOME foundation, Sourceforge, etc.)..
I kinda like this idea. It would be kind of an improved version of the official Ubuntu book, one that would be packaged in a way that looks like "software" to the average customer.

This could easily be done (from Canonical's perspective), but I'm guessing that a lot of the big stores have deals with vendors that might make it difficult.

[derekr44]

and they name them or describe them as such. how is Vista copying linux in that fashion?

I was meaning that Vista has some of the eye-candy looks that are present in Compiz/Beryl/Mac... namely wobbly windows, desktop widgets and the like. Who copied who? I dunno. I'm just saying those were not included in XP unless you ran Yahoo Widgets or bought Windowblinds.


sellable boxed Ubuntu package.

You are absolutely correct. 80% of revenue made from the Windows OS comes from bundled PCs (OEM). The other 20% is software volume licensing and off-the-shelf boxes (new and upgrade).

The partnership between Ubuntu and Dell is a wonderful start to get Linux mainstream. Now comes the retail sector. It's just a matter of time.

[ThinkBuntu]

People in the FOSS world are so damn militant. It's a balance of users, and just because people abandon Microsoft Windows doesn't mean you're responsible for it. They're driven to alternative software because of Windows' crappiness.

[derekr44]

People in the FOSS world are so damn militant. It's a balance of users, and just because people abandon Microsoft Windows doesn't mean you're responsible for it. They're driven to alternative software because of Windows' crappiness.

+1

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Having Dell on our side is great, but the trouble with them is that they are not sales people; a web site, unless it is a really annoying one, is passive such that it is up to the user. Everything it says relies on what he knows to look for. Dell's web site can't make Ubuntu known to anybody except people who are looking for Ubuntu.

[sailor2001]

tech news today.......apple has taken over 8% world market

[Henry Rayker]

Am I seeing this wrong or could this be the moment where Ubuntu will take over?

Gutsy Gibbon is just released and is without any doubt :KS AWESOME :KS.
Feisty was good too, but in my opinion, while it is it is purrfect for someone like me who loves to fiddle with it, I'm pretty sure most of my friends couldn't solve the problems I faced (damn you NVIDIA and your proprietary drivers)

On the other hand we have Windows Vista, which (from my point of view, I worked years on 2000 and XP) sucks big time.
Mac users are on a transition with Leopard (or some other feline) coming out.



Maybe now is the time we have to remind users all over the world they don't have to hundreds of dolalrs for Vista or 129$ for a Mac upgrade.
Maybe now we have to tell them that you can get better, for free!

Am I delusional because of the adrenaline rushing through my veins because of Gutsy's AWESOMNESS, or do I have a point here?

You're definitely not seeing it right. I will eat my hat if this release could bump the linux user-base up by even 2% of the total computing market, much less make enough of a difference to allow "Ubuntu to take over"

I think it would be interesting to know what percentage of Linux users are Ubuntu users (among other Linux OSes)

[PartisanEntity]

I think people have been seeing such moments since Ubuntu first came out, I say don't look for them and one day you will be pleasantly surprised :)

[Zimmer]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/23/rsa_vista_security_pitch/
I read this quote from the article that made me consider that Linux (and Ubuntu in particular) has begun to 'get to' the MS crowd.
I quote

Ben Fathi, corporate vice president of development for Windows, claimed on Tuesday that Vista experienced fewer security vulnerabilities than either Mac OS X, Windows XP or Ubuntu Linux. Fathi made the statement during a keynote presentation at the RSA Europe security conference in London on Tuesday.
mainly because he mentioned 'Ubuntu Linux' to aim his bit of FUD at. With the launch of Vista we are at a particular point where the consumer is being asked to buy upgraded kit with the latest OS installed, or to pay through the nose for an OS update that may run like a dog with two legs on their current setup.
It is at such a point that the consumer begins to look for alternatives.....