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View Full Version : Should Debian and Ubuntu collaborate more



bruce89
October 19th, 2007, 11:54 PM
It seems silly to have Ubuntu and Debian as separate entities.

Interesting packages (such as GNOME, KDE etc.) are usually newer in Ubuntu than they are in Debian, but non-interesting packages such as TeXLive tend to be newer in Debian.

The most obvious solution to the Ubuntu/Debian issue would be to merge them together. Most packages (about 75%) in Ubuntu are not modified at all from the Debian version, and having to merge changes manually is wasteful.

I am not saying that Ubuntu or Debian should disappear, but they should both use the same packages up to a point.

Wiebelhaus
October 19th, 2007, 11:58 PM
Ohh man , I don't think so.

Debian serves a multitude of specific applications as well as ubuntu has it's niche.

Anessen
October 20th, 2007, 12:06 AM
This would be a Bad Thing.

Debian set out to be Open Source pure for a start. Including closed source drivers in the distro goes against that.

Debian is designed to be rock solid stable, mostly for servers but also desktops. Ubuntu adds in modern, less stable and proven features to satisfy the eye candy department.

Debian is a base for several other distros. They would all have to bow to Ubuntus will, and that may cause clashes with the points mentioned above. They have their own philosophies that build up from Debian (or down, even).

The two distros have different goals, different ideals and should never be made the same entity. The reason we have different distros in the first place is because of choice. Denying that would be denying one of the key strengths of GNU/Linux as a whole.

bruce89
October 20th, 2007, 12:10 AM
I realise the concerns, so I've decided to change the idea.

Merge isn't the right word, collarborate is more like it.

afonic
October 20th, 2007, 12:10 AM
Saying that they should merge is very disrespectful to Debian in my opinion.

bruce89
October 20th, 2007, 12:12 AM
Saying that they should merge is very disrespectful to Debian in my opinion.

Yes, I'm regretting it now.

Beryl and Compiz merged (kind of), this is more like what I'd like to see. Changes from Debian->Ubuntu are easy but Ubuntu->Debian aren't good enough.

reyfer
October 20th, 2007, 12:14 AM
I was going to give the short answer, but I decided to give the long one: NO

p_quarles
October 20th, 2007, 12:15 AM
I use Debian Stable on my server, and Ubuntu 7.10 on my desktop. You'd have to pry both of them from my cold, dead, hands.

Seriously, though, they're different things. Debian unstable and testing will keep you bleeding edge without having to dist-upgrade every six months. Ubuntu is much easier if you want to do a fresh installation.

As for packages, I've experimented extensively with both, and Ubuntu's basic packages actually are Debian packages, unmodified. If you install kdm and kdebase, you'll get a Debian logo on your wallpaper. The Apache package is identical between the two.

The differences are in the more advanced GUI packages, and these differences inevitably have to do with the philosophies of the two distros. Debian doesn't include anything non-free. Ubuntu includes proprietary stuff that's necessary to get it to "just work." The Linux world needs both distros.

bruce89
October 20th, 2007, 12:15 AM
I've asked for this to be renamed so I don't seem stupid.

x0as
October 20th, 2007, 12:17 AM
Nope they shouldn't merge, I like having up to date packages with debain which I wouldn't get using ubuntu.

I use ubuntu at work because I haven't got to deal with stuff breaking & debian at home to have new versions of everything.

original_jamingrit
October 20th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Debian and Ubuntu do collaborate to a certain extent. it is mostly downstream, and even if Ubuntu made more upstream contributions, Debian users would likely not be interested in what they could offer.

bruce89
October 20th, 2007, 12:20 AM
Nope they shouldn't merge, I like having up to date packages with debain which I wouldn't get using ubuntu.

I use ubuntu at work because I haven't got to deal with stuff breaking & debian at home to have new versions of everything.

I'd have thought it would be the other way round.

Out of interest, who uses Debian stable as a desktop?


Debian and Ubuntu do collaborate to a certain extent. it is mostly downstream, and even if Ubuntu made more upstream contributions, Debian users would likely not be interested in what they could offer.

I don't think so, certain Ubuntu modifications are useful (not many of them though).

x0as
October 20th, 2007, 12:25 AM
I'd have thought it would be the other way round.


Debain lenny/sid are constantly updated, I wouldn't be surprised if sid already has newer versions of some packages than gutsy.

bruce89
October 20th, 2007, 12:27 AM
Debain lenny/sid are constantly updated, I wouldn't be surprised if sid already has newer versions of some packages than gutsy.

Indeed it does, but I'm not brave enough to try it (I have a secondary Lenny installation pending the decision on whether it should replace Ubuntu).

Anessen
October 20th, 2007, 12:32 AM
I have Debian as a desktop OS, I'm running Etch. Nice and stable for my cheap laptop.

plb
October 20th, 2007, 01:00 AM
Been using sid as my desktop for the past 3 years. Not sure if OP realizes Ubuntu is merely a snapshot of sid at some point in time...after that all it gets is security updates so yes Sid will have newer packages than Ubuntu. Lenny/Sid have had GNOME 2.20 for some time afaik and always gets the latest KDE release before the release announcement. But NO they shouldn't merge...they are 2 seperate projects with 2 seperate goals.

Wiebelhaus
October 20th, 2007, 01:07 AM
I have Debian as a desktop OS, I'm running Etch. Nice and stable for my cheap laptop.

aye.

Wiebelhaus
October 20th, 2007, 01:08 AM
I've asked for this to be renamed so I don't seem stupid.


say bud , you go advanced on an edit and change the title if it makes you feel any better , but you didn't sound stupid anyway.

Dimitriid
October 20th, 2007, 01:18 AM
Its not silly to have different versions. Debian stable doesn't means "former windows desktop users who do not really need stability that much find it stable". Its more akin to "This is mission critical stable and your company's infrastructure can depend on that"

p_quarles
October 20th, 2007, 01:24 AM
say bud , you go advanced on an edit and change the title if it makes you feel any better , but you didn't sound stupid anyway.
+1

Ian Murdoch himself has complained about the "drift" between the two distros. I don't think it's an issue myself, but it's not exactly "stupid" to wonder if it is.

Dimitriid
October 20th, 2007, 01:26 AM
Why worry about Debian + Ubuntu? People like Linspire are the real threat to Linux.

Wiebelhaus
October 20th, 2007, 01:39 AM
Why worry about Debian + Ubuntu? People like Linspire are the real threat to Linux.

lol.

bruce89
October 20th, 2007, 02:10 AM
Been using sid as my desktop for the past 3 years. Not sure if OP realizes Ubuntu is merely a snapshot of sid at some point in time...after that all it gets is security updates so yes Sid will have newer packages than Ubuntu. Lenny/Sid have had GNOME 2.20 for some time afaik and always gets the latest KDE release before the release announcement. But NO they shouldn't merge...they are 2 seperate projects with 2 seperate goals.

Yes, I know how Debian does its packages and how Ubuntu is just a sid snapshot which has new GNOME and so on bolted on.


Why worry about Debian + Ubuntu? People like Linspire are the real threat to Linux.

I wasn't really talking about the Debian/Ubuntu disharmony being a threat.

Some Debian people are getting annoyed about Ubuntu's website not mentioning Debian considering 75% of Ubuntu's packages are just rebuilt Debian ones. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/154274