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DeadSuperHero
October 17th, 2007, 12:09 AM
Hey all,

I've been brainstorming this for the past few months, maybe you've seen a few posts here and there for my various ideas.
I've been drawing up the schemes for an Free, Open Source, Open Codec Online Music Store comparable to iTunes.
I'm currently working on getting my PayPal and Bank Accounts to share funds, and I'm probably going to buy the webspace and a domain name this weekend.

Project Siren
-Right now, I'm calling it "Siren". I think it's a great name for a music community. The siren.org domain name is taken right now, but I'll try to get in contact with the owner(s) and try to work out a deal with them.

What Siren aims to do:

-Create an online store similar to eMusic or iTunes, but make it geared towards independant bands.

-Use only Open Source software for the site, and actually distribute the code for other people to use to make their own music stores.

-All of the music will cost absolutely nothing at all, meaning users can truly legally experience free music.

-Use Ogg Vorbis codec for all music, and offer the plugin for Windows users to be able to play .ogg files. (Though, when AmaroK 2.0 comes out on Windows, it probably won't matter so much, we could just suggest using that instead)

Tools that I've looked at to possibly integrate together:
-Joomla! (use for band profile pages?)
-phpBB (though, if SMF ever goes Open Source, that'd be AWESOME!)
-Jinzora (Would need a special theme for the music store)

Special Features Different from Most Music Communities:

-Stratocasting: A word I've made up. Basically, the idea works like so: a playlist is generated for an individual user profile that would fetch feeds and stream them like a radio station. In turn, the user could use a simple web-based interface to take various web internet radiocasts, dragging and dropping individual programs into a single timeline. It would then stream through a plugin that could be written for any music player, and there would be various community-supported plugins on the site for media players. Not only that, but anyone could start their own Stratocast on Siren, and users could instantly add them. It's all about freedom.

-Band ratings: would allow users to rate bands, allowing bands to move up and down in various rankings of genres.

-A special plugin for media players to access the store side through their media players. This would be ideal for Amarok, Banshee, Rhythmbox, and seeing as it's all going to be free and open, the possibilities are endless!

Slogans (Still working on that one):
-"Free Your Music"

-"Open Up Some Sound"

Downsides:

- I'm currently a high-school student. While a lot of these things aren't impossible, I'm going to need a staff of people dedicated to making this work.

- This would cost a decent amount of money for now, but if it ever goes huge, I'd eventually pay for dedicated servers, and a crapload of bandwidth. So, I'd be a little short on money.

Does anyone have any suggestions to help me get this off the ground?
Would anyone be interested in joining the team?
Cheers,
Mr. Psychopath


Update:
I know this took me a while, but here's my first GIMP'd mockup. I still have lots of drawings on paper, I just need to take the time to redraw them. I know blue isn't the greatest color scheme, but I was pretty much just winging it.
EDIT: I'll be posting mockups and an eventual link to a launchpad team soon!

JacobRogers
October 17th, 2007, 12:16 AM
This is semi relevant, have you ever checked out Jamendo? http://jamendo.com/

DeadSuperHero
October 17th, 2007, 12:19 AM
Interesting idea, but that's not quite what I have in mind...
I can definately take down a few pointers from it though, thanks!

Anessen
October 17th, 2007, 12:23 AM
Great idea, and I'd certainly contribute some of my web design skills to it... but we need servers and bandwidth.

aysiu
October 17th, 2007, 12:28 AM
Something like Magnatune?

DeadSuperHero
October 17th, 2007, 12:28 AM
Great idea, and I'd certainly contribute some of my web design skills to it... but we need servers and bandwidth.
Like I said, I'm working on buying some webspace (with bandwidth) and a domain for now, that will at least give us a starting point to build everything.
And as we grow...we expand. We'll eventually one day get dedicated servers and an unholy amount of bandwidth.


Something like Magnatune?
No, all of the music would be completely free. (in both Cost and Codec)

Tomosaur
October 17th, 2007, 12:32 AM
Siren...you're aware they're mermaid-like creatures who lure sailors to their deaths with sweet sweet music?

Maybe you'd better rethink that name!

Good idea though, but you're not the first. Jamendo isn't a store per-se, but people can stll make money from it. Amazingtunes.com is also another similar website, but not quite as 'free'. You'll need to be very special to attract people, but good luck!

aysiu
October 17th, 2007, 12:32 AM
No, all of the music would be completely free. (in both Cost and Codec) So why don't you describe how it would be different from Jamendo?

Tomosaur
October 17th, 2007, 12:34 AM
The music will be free cost-wise? How is it a store then? Why not give people the option of SELLING their music as well as giving it a way? People can just put their tracks up on last.fm, which is already well established and has its own player, and either give them away for free, or link to where the track can be bought.

DeadSuperHero
October 17th, 2007, 12:35 AM
I'm looking into Jamendo right now, but the layout kind of puts me off.
If I were to make a music community, I would probably be heavily inspired by the simplicity of the iTunes music store. (However, the theme and layout would also be initially different)

Hmm...it's a bit hard to describe exactly what I'm picturing in my head...perhaps I should get started on those mock-ups...
:)

EDIT: Tomosaur, that was my bad. I thought about that after posting the thread, but apparently you can't rename threads at the moment.
I would think of it more than a music store (though store can also mean storage, rather than shop), it would be a full fledged community. A central hub for tech enthusiasts, musicians, and music lovers alike! Besides, it could promote all the benefits of Free Software and Open Source!


Siren...you're aware they're mermaid-like creatures who lure sailors to their deaths with sweet sweet music?

Maybe you'd better rethink that name!

Good idea though, but you're not the first. Jamendo isn't a store per-se, but people can stll make money from it. Amazingtunes.com is also another similar website, but not quite as 'free'. You'll need to be very special to attract people, but good luck!

Heh. Yeah. But, I like the name Siren. Yes, they're sweet singing mermaids that lure sailors to their deaths, but the name just sort of fits.
Maybe they die to proprietary music?

Tomosaur
October 17th, 2007, 12:42 AM
I'm looking into Jamendo right now, but the layout kind of puts me off.
If I were to make a music community, I would probably be heavily inspired by the simplicity of the iTunes music store. (However, the theme and layout would also be initially different)

Hmm...it's a bit hard to describe exactly what I'm picturing in my head...perhaps I should get started on those mock-ups...
:)

I'm afraid without a business plan of any kind it just kind of seems pointless. There are already a lot of sites offering exactly what you're offering - and all it does is just make it more annoying for bands / artists to get the most exposure possible, and keep it all up to date (I speak from personal experience - it is incredibly annoying how fragmented the online music landscape is - there's so many sites doing this these days). The only real niche is an open-source version of iTunes - something the FOSS world is crying out for, but nobody has really taken the initiative (probably due to iTunes itself, actually). What we need is a store / media player combo for independent artists.

EDIT: I can understand what you're saying - but the current music industry means that it is incredibly, incredibly difficult for independent artists to give away music for free, especially if all they want to do is make music. They can either create music full time, in which case they need a record deal and so strengthen the bad labels and money-grubbing A&R scum, or they have a seperate job and make music in their spare time - which means they may not be happy. Many people are happy making music in their spare time and giving it away for free, but others want to dedicate their full time to doing so - there's no real way for them to support themselves if they do, though. The best current solution is the 'pay what you think it's worth' system, but this is easy to take advantage of. I have my own solution which I think is better, but I don't currently have the time to implement it (although when / if I do, the system will be open-source of course :) ).

DeadSuperHero
October 17th, 2007, 12:45 AM
Tomosaur,
that's exactly what I'm going for, though!
Except the music would be completely free, and there would be several features that I've already mentioned.
EDIT: And I'm kind of having plans to make the store a plugin for existing media players. Though, it would certainly be neat to make a specialized media player for it. Still, I'm all thumbs when it comes to interface design, so an official media player with the store built-in would take a while longer...
Still, it's a way to promote Open Media, which is my main goal regardless of whether it's a media player or a website.

EDIT2: I like the pay-as-you-think-its-worth system. THAT might be a good compromise. That way, you don't HAVE to pay for it, but you can if you want to support the band...
Hmmm....
How would your own solution work?

amadeus266
October 17th, 2007, 01:40 AM
When you get this up and running, I would be interested in putting the link on our music stores web site. We have approx. 500 local bands in my area and I'm sure some of them might be interested in sharing some tracks with you to get their name out there. There is a lot of talent in central California.

h2gofast
October 17th, 2007, 01:42 AM
Just start an ogg vorbis only bittorrent site.

DeadSuperHero
October 17th, 2007, 02:05 AM
When you get this up and running, I would be interested in putting the link on our music stores web site. We have approx. 500 local bands in my area and I'm sure some of them might be interested in sharing some tracks with you to get their name out there. There is a lot of talent in central California.

Thanks, I'd love that. However, I don't know how long it will take just to set up the basics, or even assemble a team.

n3tfury
October 17th, 2007, 02:21 AM
i think Siren's a great name for it. MAKE SOME NOISE is what came to mind. don't let naysayers get you down, just DO IT. IF it fails, well then you learned stuff along the way. if it's successful, you can feel free to kick the naysayers in the sack.

DeadSuperHero
October 17th, 2007, 02:23 AM
i think Siren's a great name for it. MAKE SOME NOISE is what came to mind. don't let naysayers get you down, just DO IT. IF it fails, well then you learned stuff along the way. if it's successful, you can feel free to kick the naysayers in the sack.

Dude, that meant the world to me.

:)

n3tfury
October 17th, 2007, 02:32 AM
hey, it's all about supporting ideas, or nobody gets anywhere. on another note: is that bellamy in your avatar?

DeadSuperHero
October 17th, 2007, 02:37 AM
s that bellamy in your avatar?
Yeah, it's from their (Muse's) video of their rendition of "Feelin' Good".

n3tfury
October 17th, 2007, 02:40 AM
and a Muse fan to boot. you got my vote.

acvwJosh
October 17th, 2007, 04:23 AM
I think that this actually that this actually makes a lot of sense. I like the idea -- perhaps the site could list information about the bands, all the things that you described, but instead of downloading the music from your site, you could link to torrent files. That would definitely save on bandwidth.


Just start an ogg vorbis only bittorrent site.

I like the idea a lot, the only big problem I see has been mentioned already -- online music is already very fragmented. What would make your site more appealing than others?

Can+~
October 30th, 2007, 02:55 AM
Mockup!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/CanXp/Siren01_e01.png

(I reused some of my old material: old webpage (http://www.alumnos.utfsm.cl/~jose.canepa/index.xhtml))

Tomosaur
October 30th, 2007, 01:50 PM
EDIT2: I like the pay-as-you-think-its-worth system. THAT might be a good compromise. That way, you don't HAVE to pay for it, but you can if you want to support the band...
Hmmm....
How would your own solution work?

:biggrin: If I told you how it would work, I'd have to KILL you :P

But seriously though, I'm still looking into it. With uni and my band I don't have a lot of time to spend on it, but I think it could take off. There are still a few theoretical problems I need to iron out though, which could make or break it considering the nature of it. Think of it as a 'perfect-market (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_market)' way of selling music. I don't want to go into details just yet because I haven't decided whether it's even feasible at this time. As soon as the back-end and the general idea is workable, I will open it up, but I think the project is one which could easily become misguided if too many hands are involved in it, to be honest. I want it to be working and safe (in terms of the moral philosophy behind it) before I ask for help from others.

DeadSuperHero
October 30th, 2007, 08:02 PM
Hey, Can+, thanks for contributing that mockup, it's got some nice ideas!
I've updated the main post with my first mockup, am now working on the "Stratocasting" console mockup.
Cheers.

cyclefiend2000
October 31st, 2007, 04:00 AM
perhaps you could offer a lossy format like ogg for free, but offer lossless files (flac?) for pay.

it would be nice if there were more lossless music download options out there.

also, it would be nice if the music store wasnt tied to one specific audio player. then i dont have to download your player just to download music.

sorry i have nothing but ideas to offer.

zachtib
November 15th, 2007, 12:36 AM
since you suggested this in my thread, the idea has been really interesting to me, and i wouldn't mind seeing it become a reality.

here's a couple of ideas that popped into my head, though.

first, i do like the idea of having the music be free, and in ogg format, but we should also include the ability to easily donate to the artist from the program. also, cyclefiend's idea of offering free lossy and paid lossless (but still DRM-free) is good also.

but here's my next thought, and this could be what sets this apart from other stores:
use bittorrent to distribute the files.
I could probably integrate this with my previous project, deluge, in order to distribute the files. basically, when you've got the client open, you'll be seeding whatever songs you have already downloaded. this would also ease the bandwidth on the project's server.

urukrama
November 15th, 2007, 01:09 AM
but here's my next thought, and this could be what sets this apart from other stores: use bittorrent to distribute the files.

Sounds like Jamendo to me. (They also allow the users to donate to the artists.)

zachtib
November 15th, 2007, 02:03 AM
Sounds like Jamendo to me. (They also allow the users to donate to the artists.)

but the idea here, i think, is to create a client that integrates the downloading/playing/whatever of these tracks, rather than just a tracker for free music. i'm not exactly sure what jamendo it, but afaik, it's just a tracker

Nekiruhs
November 15th, 2007, 02:15 AM
but the idea here, i think, is to create a client that integrates the downloading/playing/whatever of these tracks, rather than just a tracker for free music. i'm not exactly sure what jamendo it, but afaik, it's just a tracker
No its not just a tracker. Its a full web based client for music discovery, downloading, and donation to artists. It allows downloads of albums in ogg and mp3 via bittorrent and eMule. It even has a web based media player. It also includes support for making playlists. It implements a rating system for all artists and albums, and recommends music based on your previous downloads, favorited albums, and recommended albums. As well as is music side, it has a social side. You have a profile page, can add friends, recommend albums to your friends and write reviews of albums.

http://www.jamendo.com/en/

If you sign up, I recommend listening to "The Dreamers Paradox" album (http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/3317/?refuid=236751) by artist JT Bruce

BradwJensen
November 15th, 2007, 02:32 PM
Whatever people say, i'm really into this idea. :-)

I also have friends who are into it aswell.

antisocialist
November 27th, 2007, 02:17 AM
someone said something about how if music is free the artist wont be able to do solely music.

http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/tryad/

click the donations thing, and count up how much money they made in donations last month. if you live in usa double the number you get. IMHO that is one hell of a monthly pay check.


this is the list if you cant find it

2007-10
racchio (Freshhh a.k.a. Padre P-Yo : 10 €), reynal i (Boulbar : 5 €), pierluigi (David TMX : 5 €), jcroldan (StrangeZero : 5 €), faro63 (Greg Baumont : 5 €), jcroldan (XL Ant : 5 €), AfterTheDark (Binärpilot : 15 €), gelinh (Silence : 20 €), gelinh (ioeo : 20 €), gelinh (ioeo : 20 €), dzoing (La Goutte au Nez : 5 €), pivert (Drunksouls : $5), tarquinia (Bacco Baccanels : 5 €), herr matthew (Silence : 10 €), DaRKLnA (Silence : 10 €), reznamor (Arne Pahlke : 20 €), rhialto (Ludantes : 15 €), karlb (Laura Helde : 8 €), Ixx (7BZH : 5 €), Anonymous (fresh body shop : $45), gelinh (Ambient Frequencies : 20 €), masterLoki (Jade : $5), daturan (mindthings : $5), Anonymous (lucien-jean cannibal : 45 €), Poupex (June Curtsey : 5 €), kakojf (Pedro Collares : 7 €), Fedaykin (t r y ^ d : 10 €), roro80 (Kangaroo MusiQue : 6 €), Romyx (Denis RICHARD : 10 €), jonnyfifes (Elkysia : $8), herk (Talco : 10.5 €), Anonymous (JT Bruce : $5), notsoeasy (David TMX : 5 €), kamui52 (Greg Baumont : 5 €), kamui52 (t r y ^ d : 10 €), faro63 (Dan Masquelier : 7 €), kakojf (Stalling Downhill : 5 €), ojohn1944 (David Schombert : $15), HIGHJACK (Grace Valhalla : 5 €), Houradou (EVA MARIA : 5 €), ogrisel (Silence : 5 €), Hervé (Rob Costlow - Solo Piano : 5 €), fred.jamendo (NeXuS : 5 €), karlb (DavidBowman : 5 €), erumai (Karim Amari : 5 €), serknor (Clownage : $5), luke-sky721 (NeXuS : 5 €), katstoopid (t r y ^ d : $5), Anonymous (Manuzik : 5 €), lisa (t r y ^ d : $5), Neskie Manuel (Kemiso : $15), NiNeee (Binärpilot : 10 €), patkratz (Allison Crowe : 10 €), Matthias Aebi (Arietys : $20), yakutake83 (Rob Costlow - Solo Piano : 10 €), nenes52 (Kostas Vomvolos : 5 €), Rainofstars (Sylvain Piron : 5 €), jet (HGJ13/7e : 5 €), schwoggel (Allison Crowe : 5 €), gelinh (ioeo : 20 €), Anonymous (David Schombert : 6 €), Vapula (NeXuS : 5 €), Anonymous (16pac : 7.5 €), Christian Fauré (Les 3 Singes : 50 €), faro63 (Rob Costlow - Solo Piano : 5 €), tom67 (DavidBowman : $5), gelinh (Philippe Mangold : 20 €), fex (Wilson Noble : 5 €), fex (GONZO GONZALES : 5 €), Anonymous (Eclectronic : 5 €), fex (Phonethnics : 5 €), fex (Arne Pahlke : 15 €), fex (TDm : 5 €), fex (Xenophonia : 5 €), fex (CRS : 5 €), fex (WhiteRoom : 5 €), fex (Xenophonia : 5 €), fex (En attendant Mado : 5 €), fex (La Goutte au Nez : 5 €), fex (Anawin : 5 €), fex (david aubrun : 5 €), fex (Revolution Void : 5 €), fex (Jade : 5 €), Ordep (Galdson : 10 €), niedi (Nosebone inc. : 5 €), Beejay (Grace Valhalla : 7.77 €), MattJones (Lonah : $40), Jonathan (Ehma : 10 €), gelinh (ADC LEVEL : 20 €), caph (Jordanenko : 10 €), fylip22 (MISERY : 15 €), Anonymous (HYPE : 15 €), jsle (Avec elle : 5 €), loewenmaul (Symon€ : 5 €), ryadeum (Titee & Pixieguts : 20 €), gelinh (Julien Boulier : 20 €), gelinh (SEBRIDER : 20 €), Russ Leighton (Adam Certamen Bownik : $5), Adblock (SaReGaMa : 20 €), Adblock (Macroform : 10 €), Adblock (Elkysia : 20 €), Ignacio Mella (Rob Costlow - Solo Piano : $5), megassus (fresh body shop : $5)


2007-09
MattJones (Ysé : $20), MattJones (Antarhes : $20), gelinh (SaReGaMa : 20 €), yaen (Amnis : 10 €), Abe's Robot (Binärpilot : $10),

khollida
December 8th, 2007, 04:09 AM
I think I would be interested in helping out. Have you taken a look at drupal cms? In my opinion its better than joomla.

BradwJensen
December 8th, 2007, 05:57 AM
Even though i can't really code a program or anything, i would love to help with anything here.
I love music, and i love art/designing, and quality.. I also love the idea of openness like ogg and flac are, along with how music itself should be free, artists can get paid by tours/performances, and donations..
Everyone should be able to listen to a song for free.. It's like a part of life.

Somewhere on Jamendo i read that they may later release their music in flac, also. I think this could be an amazing reality if it was something of a Open mix of the goods from Jamendo, iTunes, and our own ideas.

It'd grow in popularity really fast if done right, with a bit of style, openness, and free online talk/promotion.

khollida
December 9th, 2007, 06:03 AM
Heres a site design I made as a rough idea.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/pelicansfly/siren.jpg

:)

n3tfury
December 9th, 2007, 06:25 AM
not sure about the dude who looks like he's tap dancing (and looks like an ipod commecial, which is NOT good) but the rest is real nice.

khollida
December 9th, 2007, 06:31 AM
your right, but like i said it was just a rough visual idea.

aysiu
December 9th, 2007, 06:32 AM
looks like an ipod commecial, which is NOT good. Yes, the design is beautiful, but it'd be nice not to copy the iPod ads.

khollida
December 9th, 2007, 06:40 AM
ok. Heres the fixed version:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j312/pelicansfly/siren-1.jpg

DeadSuperHero
December 9th, 2007, 04:36 PM
I like that!
I've also noticed another site that does some similar things to my idea, it's actually the Newgrounds Audio portal. I'm currently looking into how to integrate a simple, clean layout like that.
Nice mockup!

bobbocanfly
December 9th, 2007, 05:01 PM
The mockups are nice and i like the idea of it.Will be interested to see how this works out. If you ever need some PHP just shout and i'll give it a go.

Nekiruhs
December 9th, 2007, 05:04 PM
I still don't see how this is any different from Jamendo. It might be more worth your time to try and join the Jamendo team then start from scratch.


No its not just a tracker. Its a full web based client for music discovery, downloading, and donation to artists. It allows downloads of albums in ogg and mp3 via bittorrent and eMule. It even has a web based media player. It also includes support for making playlists. It implements a rating system for all artists and albums, and recommends music based on your previous downloads, favorited albums, and recommended albums. As well as is music side, it has a social side. You have a profile page, can add friends, recommend albums to your friends and write reviews of albums.

http://www.jamendo.com/en/

If you sign up, I recommend listening to "The Dreamers Paradox" album (http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/3317/?refuid=236751) by artist JT Bruce

They just went through a complete site redesign and added a bunch of new features like HTTP download and better web player integration into the website.

xyz
December 9th, 2007, 05:15 PM
ourmedia (http://www.ourmedia.org/) also.

DeadSuperHero
December 9th, 2007, 05:34 PM
I tried Jamendo, I just don't like it at all. It was nice for two seconds to me.
Ourmedia wasn't bad.
When I get enough work done, you'll see that although it's a very similar idea, the presentation will be very different.
Besides which, I'm just making something different, what's wrong with that? There's dozens of Linux distributions, there's nothing wrong with having many different free music sites!

BradwJensen
December 9th, 2007, 05:42 PM
Okay, i have a small idea to get started more with this web layout.. Since this is to originally be a website, how about instead of working on colors and layouts in image editing software which are not supposed to be a first step when creating something serious, we come up with the essentials of what we'll need in a list; like the essential links/linknames. Then when we have that list we can come up with different simple pen on paper layouts that we scan and upload, so we don't get all stuck in what colors everything should be first, just work on the layout and ease of use.

After we have a decent idea of how the layout should look, we can all either make a nice colored layout of our own and compare, or all come up with a color scheme together, and work from there.

Steps at a time and working together will get a nicer and more likable layout all together..

Anyone else like this idea, or want to add to anything?
It's just a nice simple idea to get things moving in the right direction on how i feel anything serious should be taken, as too not leave out fine details on this nice Project.

DeadSuperHero
December 9th, 2007, 05:46 PM
Write the basics first? The backends, functions, everything important first?
That makes more sense than doing all the art first, I guess. But, I don't really have any developers on the team yet, nor do I have any webspace at the moment.

staticvoid
December 9th, 2007, 05:47 PM
this looks promising :D

BradwJensen
December 9th, 2007, 06:25 PM
Write the basics first? The backends, functions, everything important first?
That makes more sense than doing all the art first, I guess. But, I don't really have any developers on the team yet, nor do I have any webspace at the moment.


Well it's never to early to start coming up with a basic list of what one might need. :-P
I'm taking web designing in college right now, so i can help come up with ideas on a layout and a list of what could be needed in the site.. Anyone else could help come up with ideas too.. How about you start a simple list of a few things we should have in the site..

Like:

Search Box -- searches all artists, album names, and song names.

'New Music' page -- has a list of the newest music added to the site.

Donation Links -- quick simple way to be able to donate to artists. (should be on all album pages, and the artists main page if there is one)

Codec support -- flac & ogg as to keep it Open/Free.

torrent links for the flac files to keep web bandwidth lower?

Just a list with a lot of ideas on what you want in the site, then post it here and people can make suggestions on what to add to it or something to replace one of the ideas..

Nekiruhs
December 9th, 2007, 06:28 PM
I tried Jamendo, I just don't like it at all. It was nice for two seconds to me.
Ourmedia wasn't bad.
When I get enough work done, you'll see that although it's a very similar idea, the presentation will be very different.
Besides which, I'm just making something different, what's wrong with that? There's dozens of Linux distributions, there's nothing wrong with having many different free music sites!
What didn't you like about it that you plan to fix in Siren? Have you tried the new layout of Jamendo?

toupeiro
December 9th, 2007, 06:37 PM
Hey, in all seriousness I am completely stoked about this idea. I don't care if there is another one similar to your idea already out there, there is always room for someone to do another one, and potentially better. I would love to contribute somehow. If this idea ever gets off the ground, I have a few personal friends in the music label business who owe me a favor, I could ask how a person say on the geffen records label could be a part of something like this legally.

bobbocanfly
December 9th, 2007, 06:53 PM
Hey, in all seriousness I am completely stoked about this idea. I don't care if there is another one similar to your idea already out there, there is always room for someone to do another one, and potentially better. I would love to contribute somehow. If this idea ever gets off the ground, I have a few personal friends in the music label business who owe me a favor, I could ask how a person say on the geffen records label could be a part of something like this legally.

Depite my complete hatred of the music industry and total advocacy of piracy, i support labels getting into projects like this, as long as they arent ripping people off. And the more support from companies Linux gets and the more music floating around in Flac and Ogg the better.

DeadSuperHero
December 9th, 2007, 07:05 PM
Very well, here's a rough list of things I'd like to see.

-A clean, easy to use, comfortable interface.

-Integration with a message board for a music community.

Search Box -- searches all artists, album names, and song names.

'New Music' page -- has a list of the newest music added to the site, would be on the front page.

'Top Rated' also on the front page.

Built-in site player, so you can navigate the site playing one band while searching for other ones

-A playlist maybe?

Donation Links -- quick simple way to be able to donate to artists. (should be on all album pages, and the artists main page if there is one) -I like this one

Codec support -- flac & ogg as to keep it Open/Free.

Lower the bandwidth by making torrent links, which could also be used as a media player plugin for Amarok or some other media player, so that there's an instant download into a music folder.

-Stratocasting: A word I've made up. Basically, the idea works like so: a playlist is generated for an individual user profile that would fetch feeds and stream them like a radio station. In turn, the user could use a simple web-based interface to take various web internet radiocasts, dragging and dropping individual programs into a single timeline. It would then stream through a plugin that could be written for any music player, and there would be various community-supported plugins on the site for media players. Not only that, but anyone could start their own Stratocast on Siren, and users could instantly add them. It's all about freedom.

-Band ratings: would allow users to rate bands, allowing bands to move up and down in various rankings of genres. Bad music submissions would be rated down into nothingness, similar to Newground's approach with "cutting the crap", controlled entirely by the community

-Media player plugins to access the site, and download/play the music directly into the music player.

-Use Ogg Vorbis/FLAC codec for all music, and offer the plugin for Windows users to be able to play .ogg files. (Though, when AmaroK 2.0 comes out on Windows, it probably won't matter so much, we could just suggest using that instead)

-Individual profiles for each band, containing: a blog, pictures, an album viewer/player, add to playlist functions.

-Possibly Flash/AJAX integration to the site, for smooth animations when the user does things like rating songs, adding reviews, etc.

-A catalog of music with various ways of sorting (latest, most popular, etc)

-Genre tags for individual albums and songs, so that searches for songs in a particular genre are more relevant.

- Searchable lyrics: enter a phrase, find the song.

Feel free to add to it/change it.

popch
December 9th, 2007, 07:10 PM
Add lyrics, searchable: enter a phrase, find the song.

DeadSuperHero
December 9th, 2007, 07:12 PM
Add lyrics, searchable: enter a phrase, find the song.

Oooh! I like that! Added!

toupeiro
December 9th, 2007, 07:21 PM
Another good idea would be to tie it into songmeanings.net.

toupeiro
December 9th, 2007, 07:25 PM
Depite my complete hatred of the music industry and total advocacy of piracy, i support labels getting into projects like this, as long as they arent ripping people off. And the more support from companies Linux gets and the more music floating around in Flac and Ogg the better.

I'm not a label fan either, but there is a little thing called contracts, and a lot of bands and musicians have them. I'm not suggesting that Geffen "get into" this project, rather I intend on finding out how an artist contracted to a label can use a tool like this independantly.

The other thing you gotta realize, is that the record labels know they've lost face over the years, and sponsorship or endorsement of a project like this is the kind of thing they NEED to get involved in. Either way, it was an offer to ask a question. I have some friends in high places, but not THAT high. :P I have a lot of interest in this project, but I have too many other projects going on I am involved in, so its the only way I can see to contribute.

Mateo
December 9th, 2007, 07:26 PM
good idea, recommend a web-based store, not a standalone app.

Nekiruhs
December 9th, 2007, 07:46 PM
Very well, here's a rough list of things I'd like to see.

-A clean, easy to use, comfortable interface.

-Integration with a message board for a music community.

Search Box -- searches all artists, album names, and song names.

'New Music' page -- has a list of the newest music added to the site, would be on the front page.

'Top Rated' also on the front page.

Built-in site player, so you can navigate the site playing one band while searching for other ones

-A playlist maybe?

Donation Links -- quick simple way to be able to donate to artists. (should be on all album pages, and the artists main page if there is one) -I like this one

Codec support -- flac & ogg as to keep it Open/Free.

Lower the bandwidth by making torrent links, which could also be used as a media player plugin for Amarok or some other media player, so that there's an instant download into a music folder.

-Stratocasting: A word I've made up. Basically, the idea works like so: a playlist is generated for an individual user profile that would fetch feeds and stream them like a radio station. In turn, the user could use a simple web-based interface to take various web internet radiocasts, dragging and dropping individual programs into a single timeline. It would then stream through a plugin that could be written for any music player, and there would be various community-supported plugins on the site for media players. Not only that, but anyone could start their own Stratocast on Siren, and users could instantly add them. It's all about freedom.

-Band ratings: would allow users to rate bands, allowing bands to move up and down in various rankings of genres. Bad music submissions would be rated down into nothingness, similar to Newground's approach with "cutting the crap", controlled entirely by the community

-Media player plugins to access the site, and download/play the music directly into the music player.

-Use Ogg Vorbis/FLAC codec for all music, and offer the plugin for Windows users to be able to play .ogg files. (Though, when AmaroK 2.0 comes out on Windows, it probably won't matter so much, we could just suggest using that instead)

-Individual profiles for each band, containing: a blog, pictures, an album viewer/player, add to playlist functions.

-Possibly Flash/AJAX integration to the site, for smooth animations when the user does things like rating songs, adding reviews, etc.

-A catalog of music with various ways of sorting (latest, most popular, etc)

-Genre tags for individual albums and songs, so that searches for songs in a particular genre are more relevant.

- Searchable lyrics: enter a phrase, find the song.

Feel free to add to it/change it.
Minus the stratocasting, the lyrics search, and the subjectiveness of the interface, Jamendo has all of that. Again, maybe instead of making your own project from scratch, join the Jamendo team, work with their established codebase and infrastructure and add your ideas to it. We don't need 30 different music sites for artists to decide to put their music on. Music listeners most certainly won't benefit from fragmentation. Neither will artists.

toupeiro
December 9th, 2007, 07:49 PM
. We don't need 30 different music sites for artists to decide to put their music on.

Right.. because having no choices has always done so much more for us in the long run? :-k

DeadSuperHero
December 9th, 2007, 07:57 PM
We don't need 30 different music sites for artists to decide to put their music on. .

Just like we don't need dozens of Linux distributions to choose from?

Nekiruhs
December 9th, 2007, 08:07 PM
Right.. because having no choices has always done so much more for us in the long run? :-k
I'm not saying no choices.We already have Magnatune, Jamendo, OurMedia. Do we really need another site when the proposed idea sounds like Jamendo with two added features? Why not take advantage of an already successful product similar to the idea, and then add the two features. Jamendo has an established API, codebase, infrastructure, and business model. Why not take advantage of that and build upon it. Think of the artists too. Do they really want to upload their albums 4 or 5 times to different sites to get the exposure they could get from one? Also, how is the monetary incentive for the artists in this greater than that of Jamendo? Artists get all the donation money, and %50 of the advertisement money. %50! Then take into account the user, do they want to have to use 4 or 5 different sites with 4 or 5 different accounts to listen to their music? Can you imagine how much harder it becomes to find artists you like when you have to compare across sites?

Also, logistically, things like this cost money. Hosting space (Free FLAC uploads from artists ain't gonna be small on the space), bandwidth for visits and streaming OGG and FLAC. Do you realize how much all this costs? Like go get a loan from an entrepreneur cost. Also, have you ever actually designed a high-quality website before? To maintain upkeep and improve something like this takes al team of dedicated programmers and lots of time. If you have no experience, web coding+design costs lots of money too.

Logically it makes much more sense to tack on to what is already there to address personal complaints than to build your own from scratch. Read this (http://www.somethingsimilar.com/wordpress/2007/08/06/how-to-get-your-project-moving-or-my-ego-is-massive-and-you-should-listen-to-me/), you need to read it. That article tells you what it really takes to do something like this. My advice is to extend Jamendo with the 2 or 3 features you want and be happy with it.

DeadSuperHero
December 9th, 2007, 08:18 PM
Nekiruhs, you make an interesting point. However, I do not want to join an existing project like Jamendo because I don't like it. I don't want to join some other community, just to tack on my ideas moronically. It's just the way I see things.
As for hosting, I believe the term "start out small" is a good way to go. That's how YouTube started out. There really wasn't a need for it when it came out, there were several sites already doing the same thing. Also, they started out by hosting it in their apartment building. And now it's one of the most popular sites on the web, and was bought out by Google.
My point? Starting small has a benefit costwise, and I can always upgrade as the userbase grows dramatically.
As for web coding and design, there's probably dozens of people that would do it for free if they were motivated enough.
In any case, I'm planning on going forwards with this anyway.
Also, that link you posted was somewhat irrelevant, and aren't you supposed to refrain from linking to something that swears on these boards?

Nekiruhs
December 9th, 2007, 08:45 PM
Nekiruhs, you make an interesting point. However, I do not want to join an existing project like Jamendo because I don't like it. I don't want to join some other community, just to tack on my ideas moronically. It's just the way I see things.
As for hosting, I believe the term "start out small" is a good way to go. That's how YouTube started out. There really wasn't a need for it when it came out, there were several sites already doing the same thing. Also, they started out by hosting it in their apartment building. And now it's one of the most popular sites on the web, and was bought out by Google.
My point? Starting small has a benefit costwise, and I can always upgrade as the userbase grows dramatically.
As for web coding and design, there's probably dozens of people that would do it for free if they were motivated enough.
In any case, I'm planning on going forwards with this anyway.
Also, that link you posted was somewhat irrelevant, and aren't you supposed to refrain from linking to something that swears on these boards?
I highly doubt that anyone will code+design it for you out of sheer desire to do so. I stand by that link, Vaporware goes nowhere. No one is going to start coding a site for you. How is the link irrelevant? It describes what it really takes to start a project like this. As far as the swear words on the link, not my article but it makes a very valid point, so I link to it. If it offends you, I'll edit it out of my post, but I atleast wanted you to readit.

jfluet
December 16th, 2007, 10:49 PM
this sounds like a great plan, i hope to see it in the near future.

aaargh486
January 30th, 2008, 09:09 PM
May I give you an advice? Please keep your site simple.
If it ever gets from the ground, make a simple, clean and beautiful site (or at least an option to do so). It would vastly decrease the load on your servers and is a lot easier to use from my point of view.

shadowh511
February 5th, 2008, 11:46 PM
also, make the database simple (XML should do) and then open it up to people, so they can make a plugin for rhythmbox to browse it. :KS:KS:KS:KS:KS for this idea

Jason.TJ.Johnson
February 6th, 2008, 08:21 AM
I highly doubt that anyone will code+design it for you out of sheer desire to do so. I stand by that link, Vaporware goes nowhere. No one is going to start coding a site for you. How is the link irrelevant? It describes what it really takes to start a project like this. As far as the swear words on the link, not my article but it makes a very valid point, so I link to it. If it offends you, I'll edit it out of my post, but I atleast wanted you to readit.

How can you so surely say no one will help him or code a website for him. I've done it on numerous occasions and I don't have any problems with it. Let him try, it could be something big. Nothing wrong with trying.