I predict and I honestly believe Ubuntu can in fact do it!~overcome Apple and Windows

[RAV TUX]

I predict and I honestly believe Ubuntu can in fact do it!~overcome Apple and Windows...

By George I think they've got it!

I have never believed this possible with past Ubuntu releases but I honestly believe and I predict that Ubuntu will one day first surpass Apple and then Windows in it's user base...

With the Gutsy release I now realize that this in fact possible.

Eventually.

[picpak]

I don't think Ubuntu should feel the need to overcome anything. In a perfect world, Windows would have 33%, Mac would have 33%, and Linux would have 33%.

[nonewmsgs]

ubuntu really is something beautiful and even great for the basic users who just want an office suite, internet access, soduko, and solitare. i turned my friend's mother's computer into a dualboot (with xp). she was a little reluctant but i encouraged her to give it a try. 3 weeks later she wanted to know what was wrong with her computer because she accidently booted into windows and wanted her ubuntu :D

[Darkagentx]

Haha, that's awesome.

[jrusso2]

I predict and I honestly believe Ubuntu can in fact do it!~overcome Apple and Windows...

By George I think they've got it!

I have never believed this possible with past Ubuntu releases but I honestly believe and I predict that Ubuntu will one day first surpass Apple and then Windows in it's user base...

With the Gutsy release I now realize that this in fact possible.

Eventually.

One percent of the desktops would be more realistic.

[Ireclan]

So, you think Ubuntu "can do it", huh? Well, I hope you're right. I haven't decided yet. It's just too early to tell. I'm glad you have faith, though.

[cmat]

One percent of the desktops would be more realistic.

It's getting close to that.
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2

[LT1Caprice57L]

I don't think Ubuntu should feel the need to overcome anything. In a perfect world, Windows would have 33%, Mac would have 33%, and Linux would have 33%.

And BSD would have that last 1%? :lolflag:

[picpak]

And BSD would have that last 1%? :lolflag:

LOL, actually, that's exactly what I was thinking. :razz:

[Tux Aubrey]

With the Gutsy release I now realize that this in fact possible.

+1. I am regularly blown away by how good this OS really is. I really wish there was more I could do to spread the word - but I'm no evangelist.

[steveneddy]

I predict and I honestly believe Ubuntu can in fact do it!~overcome Apple and Windows...

By George I think they've got it!

I have never believed this possible with past Ubuntu releases but I honestly believe and I predict that Ubuntu will one day first surpass Apple and then Windows in it's user base...

With the Gutsy release I now realize that this in fact possible.

Eventually.

I'm with you, RAV. I believe in the cause and I do my part to spread the word.

[GSF1200S]

I would love to see Linux bury windows (not so much Mac). Still, if it stays a cult OS that only a few people use, Ill still love it. It kind of scares me to think about Linux on top, because then it will fall victim to the majority of spyware, viruses, etc. I dont care how good Linux is in security.. it can still be broke just like anything in the world.

Only time will tell. I dont think the majority of computer users are ready for Linux- it still requires a technical touch now and again.

[-grubby]

It's getting close to that.
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2

they put Linux behind Windows 98?

[jrusso2]

It's getting close to that.
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2

We are still behind Windows 98 an operating system that has not been supported in over a year
I think we should concentrate on fixing whats wrong.

[phrostbyte]

We are still behind Windows 98 an operating system that has not been supported in over a year
I think we should concentrate on fixing whats wrong.

To be fair, those stats are for website that the "common folk" visit. If you check stats for techie sites Linux desktop usage is 10%-40%. It's very much mainstream in the computer professional / nerd world. Remember PCs used to be a nerd thing too. :popcorn:

[SZF2001]

Why Ubuntu? Why not Debian? I found Debian just as easy to install as Ubuntu, and more supported options of installation.

Plus, I'm not held up on having to have that Evolution suite crap - if I don't want it, I can remove it. In Ubuntu, if I remove that then I remove the ubuntu-desktop package which can be vital for vital updates and vital... stuff.

With module-assist it was pretty easy getting my nVIDIA card working - Ubuntu has the Driver Manager, and that's about it. Why am I saying this? Here is a valid point on simplicity - yes, I found it pretty easy with module-assist, but then there is grandma and average Joe who doesn't even want to touch a terminal.

But then there is the speed factor. With Ubuntu's default install (with GNOME) vs. Debian's default install (GNOME again), things just click and work faster in Debian vs. Ubuntu. I can understand this - Ubuntu comes with a bunch of stuff pre-installed to satisfy the masses, which isn't bad, really... But if I need a printer driver, I'm pretty sure I can use the non-free repositories just like you guys.

So why does it have to be Ubuntu? Couldn't it be Red Hat, hell, even Mandrake? How about just saying Linux. That's a nice little summary, don't you think?

[pluviosity]

Why Ubuntu? Why not Debian?

...

So why does it have to be Ubuntu? Couldn't it be Red Hat, hell, even Mandrake? How about just saying Linux. That's a nice little summary, don't you think?

Because these are the Ubuntu Forums, so naturally, it'll be the distro of choice here for mass-market takeovers.

[aysiu]

Even if the .81% market share is correct (and I doubt it is--Linux users, much more often than Mac or Windows users, are more likely to mask their operating system or refuse cookies from tracking sites), that's still a lot of people.

There are about 6 billion people in the world. I'm just making this up, but I'd guess at the very least 1 billion (so 1 out of 6) people have some kind of internet access (dial-up, satellite, broadband), whether at home, work, school, or the library. .81% of 1 billion is over 8 million people. And the consider that those who use computers only at work, school, or the library have no choice what operating system they use. That means, among the users who have chosen their own operating system, the percentage of Linux users is probably even higher than .81%.

Still, even if we go with conservative estimates, 8 million users is a lot of users.

[23meg]

Plus, I'm not held up on having to have that Evolution suite crap - if I don't want it, I can remove it. In Ubuntu, if I remove that then I remove the ubuntu-desktop package which can be vital for vital updates and vital... stuff.

Since Feisty, you can uninstall stuff without removing ubuntu-desktop, which AFAIK is no longer critical for upgrades anyway.

[SZF2001]

Since Feisty, you can uninstall stuff without removing ubuntu-desktop, which AFAIK is no longer critical for upgrades anyway.

...For reals?

[23meg]

...For reals?

Try and see.

[FuturePilot]

I predict and I honestly believe Ubuntu can in fact do it!~overcome Apple and Windows...

By George I think they've got it!

I have never believed this possible with past Ubuntu releases but I honestly believe and I predict that Ubuntu will one day first surpass Apple and then Windows in it's user base...

With the Gutsy release I now realize that this in fact possible.

Eventually.
Totally agree! I do my part to help.:popcorn:

[eljoeb]

I must admit... I don't really care what other people use. Linux covers my needs just fine right now. Other people can do what they want.

[beyboo]

irrelevant

[Dimitriid]

Well yes Ubuntu is very good at addressing user needs, By humans for humans or something like that.

But since when does it matters what do small insignificant petit bourgeoisie consumers think or want? Capitalist imperialism has made an art out of manipulating the general opinion to continue favoring huge corporations.

So long as windows and apple monetarily or otherwise coheres hardware manufacturing into only offering windows its a lost battle. Sadly Linux ( or Ubuntu's ) chances for mass adoption are beyond mere technical things and goes a lot deeper.

If you want a hint, look at countries were the governments are pushing for free software. They have the right idea.

[Ultra Magnus]

I agree - apparently if growth continues at the present rate Linux will be the dominant OS by 2014!

I suspect that we are largly irrelevant to whether that happens though, I think that Linux will make it because if "techies" like it they will deploy it on the company servers, then on the company desktops and then people will use it at home because its what they use at work - afterall windows didn't get to no.1 because people loved using it, they had to use it at work so they had to use it at home.

I don't know about the market share but I suspect it varies from place to place, I think us Europeans are quite fond of Open Sauce in general

[conehead77]

It's getting close to that.
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2
0.81%? I never realized i was that 1337 :lolflag:
Seriously, how can a OS thats free, safe and easy to use only have 0.81%? Well, im happy with Ubuntu and im sure many other people would be more happy too if they would (let) change their OS.

[Fred_E _krugar]

Well I dont know about global domination, But I have enjoyed Ubuntu for about three weeks now.

I do hope that it atleast catches up so, some of the big game developers will make them for linux also. That is the only reason I even keep Windows on my comp.

[MaximB]

As I would like to believe it, I just don't see it happening in the NEAR(1-5 years) future.
From this diagram you can see that Linux grown by 100% in the last year !
Which is amazing.
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5&qpcustom=Linux

But it's still below 1% , so we got a long long way to go.
And you must consider the fact that most Linux users still keep their windows OS and dual-boot.

[JBAlaska]

Windows ME..FTW..LOL

Linux DOES indeed surpass windows in all it's meager flavors..

[floke]

So why does it have to be Ubuntu? Couldn't it be Red Hat, hell, even Mandrake? How about just saying Linux. That's a nice little summary, don't you think?

+1 :cool:

[EdThaSlayer]

Seeing as how Rav Tux REALLY likes Gutsy, it makes me want to try it out! Only a couple more days to go they say, only a couple more days.

[RAV TUX]

Seeing as how Rav Tux REALLY likes Gutsy, it makes me want to try it out! Only a couple more days to go they say, only a couple more days.You'll Love Gutsy. ;)

[forrestcupp]

RAV, you change distros almost as much as you change your avatar. Do you use e17 in Gutsy?

[fuscia]

i believe that most 'normal' people have never even heard of linux (let alone ubuntu) and eclipsing macs and windows is unlikely. i'd be delighted if it did, though.

[drbob07]

In my mind, Ubuntu, nor any other GNU/Linux OS, will *ever* overcome Windows (or Mac)


Simply because, there is no "open source business model".

You will never be able to walk into a mall, pick up a copy of a game, and walk out, and no store would put a "donations bucket" below their games shelf.

Open Source cannot become a business model, and, although downloading from Repositories is easy, and in my mind simpler, people still prefer to have a tangible CD and documentation. (However, most people would not *purchase* those if the software were freely available)


All I am saying is, being closed source is perhaps why they are so sucessful.

Unless Ubuntu were to become closed source, or a revolution took place, Ubuntu could never overrun Windows.

People pay the erroneous prices because they *want* to.
Why would you pay 120+ dollars for a DVD with 0's and 1's on it, if you could get similair software off the internet free of charge?

The fact of the matter is, companies will *not* switch to Linux because they won't make any money. Even if they did release closed source software for Linux, it would ruin the purpose of Linux.

Switching to Linux requires the erradication of an entire business model. Which will not happen.

[Kosimo]

I'm agree with that...
But, calm down guys. We are all doing an amazing job here, using, hacking, promoting and spreading this amazing Linux distro. But, it still have too many things to fix before being ready for the huge mass of all users. (With the software houses help of course). It have no sense to have an amazing OS if there is no soft or games available for it. I completely respect the open source community but I still believe that is good to have the option and, (for example) I like the existence of ID software making amazing games like Quake, and preparing it to be perfectly playable in linux, the the users are free to buy it or not. So, in my opinion the key to reach the point of overcoming Windows or Mac, is in the final users hands (of course) but also in the software houses (and this second point will automatically come when the market share increases) Something that is already happening. Some of my more used apps (Google Earth, Skype, Nero, are perfectly ported to linux) but we still need more.

Just my opinion guys.

[samb0057]

Open source is not a business model and I do have my doubts.

People do buy windows because they want to. However they want windows because they have never been exposed to anything else, and windows' hold on the market and hardware/pc companies provides a very easy to obtain and use os. I used windows because i "wanted to" for years, but now I am using ubuntu and dont plan to ever go back to windows.

[aysiu]

In my mind, Ubuntu, nor any other GNU/Linux OS, will *ever* overcome Windows (or Mac)


Simply because, there is no "open source business model".

You will never be able to walk into a mall, pick up a copy of a game, and walk out, and no store would put a "donations bucket" below their games shelf. Open source actually is a business model. Take a look at the MySQL Enterprise Edition or Firefox's millions of dollars of profits through its placement of Google as the default search engine. Red Hat and Novell sell products not just a donation box.

Open source software can be sold and is sold.

[smartboyathome]

I can see it happening only if Europe does separate OSes from their PCs. The simple fact that you have to install Ubuntu and that Windows is preinstalled on PCs is enough to keep people away. I even have had people tell me that it must be crap if it isn't preinstalled on as many computers as windows.

[aysiu]

I can see it happening only if Europe does separate OSes from their PCs. The simple fact that you have to install Ubuntu and that Windows is preinstalled on PCs is enough to keep people away. I even have had people tell me that it must be crap if it isn't preinstalled on as many computers as windows. It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, actually. Because it's not preinstalled, you have to install it yourself and are more likely to have a crappy experience.

Just to tack on to my last post about charging--even Ubuntu has DVDs available for sale on Amazon.

[samb0057]

I can see it happening only if Europe does separate OSes from their PCs. The simple fact that you have to install Ubuntu and that Windows is preinstalled on PCs is enough to keep people away. I even have had people tell me that it must be crap if it isn't preinstalled on as many computers as windows.

Good example, plus the fact that outside of the US, many governments are switching to Linux. The unbundling of OS and PC will help, but I really doubt that it will actually happen, as this has been the standard for so many years.

[Paqman]

Good example, plus the fact that outside of the US, many governments are switching to Linux. The unbundling of OS and PC will help, but I really doubt that it will actually happen, as this has been the standard for so many years.

I don't think unbundling is really an option. Most people want an OS preinstalled. I think the realistic solution would be to get to the point where the OS became an option you could choose. I think the lower price alone would push a lot of people towards Linux.

[samb0057]

Exactly, people want OSes on their computer, however the flaw with this is that if there is an os preinstalled, it will almost definitely be Windows. Maybe rather than pushing for complete unbundling of OSes, push for adequate choices, rather than allow Microsoft to control the vendor's options.

[smartboyathome]

Exactly, people want OSes on their computer, however the flaw with this is that if there is an os preinstalled, it will almost definitely be Windows. Maybe rather than pushing for complete unbundling of OSes, push for adequate choices, rather than allow Microsoft to control the vendor's options.

The only problem is that Microsoft will find a way around this, and have many PCs installed with their OS, while the others would have only a few.

[samb0057]

The only problem is that Microsoft will find a way around this, and have many PCs installed with their OS, while the others would have only a few.

And that's the situation as it is now basically. No real solution for the time being, as Microsoft's hold on hardware vendors is pretty strong, which won't just suddenly end.

[Ireclan]

Open source actually is a business model.

Yes, it is a business model....But it's a neutered one, in which the only thing left to sell is tech support. Think about it- why buy software if you can just compile it from source?

[BuffaloX]

Two days ago, I was at a public computer center.
I talked a bit with the supporter there.
He knew about Linux, but had never tried it. I showed him a couple of Linux videos on You Tube, and his jaw dropped.

He asked if I could bring him a cracked CD so he could try it. :lolflag:
I then explained that it was Open source and free as in speech, and that we could download it for him immediately. I pointed him to Ubuntu Downloads, and then I had to leave.

Next day I met the guy again, he was sitting with his laptop, and guess what..
It now had Ubuntu with Beryl, and he was plying with Beryl effects like I've never even seen on you tube.

He thanked me so it was almost embarrassing for showing him Ubuntu Linux.

Yes I also believe it's possible for Linux to become the dominant OS,.
Especially considering the prices of apple computers, and the poor quality of Vista.

[aysiu]

Think about it- why buy software if you can just compile it from source? Any number of reasons:

1. As was pointed out before, some people like to buy physical objects, not just download from repositories. If it's in a box and on a CD looking official, there are certain people who would prefer to pay for that instead of downloading a free version with no instructions and no official artwork. I know if I wanted a Ubuntu DVD, I would much rather buy it from Amazon for a few bucks than download 4 GB over the internet and purchase a DVD burner (all I have now is a CD burner).

2. Businesses like to have a company behind a product, and they also like to pay for products. They're generally apprehensive about cost-free software, unless it's a web browser. That's why MySQL can sell an enterprise edition for thousands of dollars. There's a company to hold accountable. There is support--not just phone/email support, but security updates and installations as well.

3. Some people don't like to compile from source. Some people like precompiled binaries or like having someone else maintain things. I could have a fully functional WordPress installation for free on my Psychocats web server. Know why I don't? Because it's annoying to install, and it's annoying to update when new versions come out. I don't want to have to manually download a .zip or .tar.gz, read the README file, find out which .php files to replace and what permissions to give them every time a new security update comes for WP. So it's convenient to use WordPress.com and have limited functionality. And some people would prefer to have WordPress have full functionality, so they pay for it.

If I was a serious coupon clipper, I could get hundreds of dollars' worth of groceries for only a few dollars, but that would mean keeping track of all the coupons and their expiration dates. I would prefer, believe it or not, to spend a few hundred dollars on my groceries than take up a second job keeping track of coupons.

That mentality goes beyond groceries. A lot of home software users would rather have convenience and fancy packaging for money than do-it-yourself compiling for free. Same with businesses.

[RAV TUX]

Any number of reasons:

1. As was pointed out before, some people like to buy physical objects, not just download from repositories. If it's in a box and on a CD looking official, there are certain people who would prefer to pay for that instead of downloading a free version with no instructions and no official artwork. I know if I wanted a Ubuntu DVD, I would much rather buy it from Amazon for a few bucks than download 4 GB over the internet and purchase a DVD burner (all I have now is a CD burner).

2. Businesses like to have a company behind a product, and they also like to pay for products. They're generally apprehensive about cost-free software, unless it's a web browser. That's why MySQL can sell an enterprise edition for thousands of dollars. There's a company to hold accountable. There is support--not just phone/email support, but security updates and installations as well.

3. Some people don't like to compile from source. Some people like precompiled binaries or like having someone else maintain things. I could have a fully functional WordPress installation for free on my Psychocats web server. Know why I don't? Because it's annoying to install, and it's annoying to update when new versions come out. I don't want to have to manually download a .zip or .tar.gz, read the README file, find out which .php files to replace and what permissions to give them every time a new security update comes for WP. So it's convenient to use WordPress.com and have limited functionality. And some people would prefer to have WordPress have full functionality, so they pay for it.

If I was a serious coupon clipper, I could get hundreds of dollars' worth of groceries for only a few dollars, but that would mean keeping track of all the coupons and their expiration dates. I would prefer, believe it or not, to spend a few hundred dollars on my groceries than take up a second job keeping track of coupons.

That mentality goes beyond groceries. A lot of home software users would rather have convenience and fancy packaging for money than do-it-yourself compiling for free. Same with businesses.

Very good points, I am especially the same way when it comes to coupons also. I could never remember them anyway, I would rather spend hundreds of dollars more then go through the hassle of clipping them, sorting them, and then remembering to take them.

That I feel would significantly decrease the quality of my life and I would rather pay more money. This is true in a lot of aspects of life.

[n3tfury]

wow, another one of these threads. and by rav? disappointed my friend :/

[JAPrufrock]

Yes, Rav Tux, I too am a believer. Windows and Apple will fall. The future is Linux, Google, and on-line killer apps. May the source be open.

[toupeiro]

In the desktop end, I think ubuntu will certainly become the "OS of choice" over microsoft and apple for those that take it apon themselves to choose. This is a much more important point for ubuntu than pure installation numbers I think.

[ryanVickers]

hey, heard you were learning Japanese ;)

うーん、どうだか分からない-アップル社のいくつかの非常に良いことだろうが、かれらが、私が思うにはふてくされ以上かかるウィンドウズ ！ ;)

or

Well, you never know - Apple's got some pretty nice things going for them, but I think it will defiantly over take windows! ;)

[voided3]

Seriously, how can a OS thats free, safe and easy to use only have 0.81%? Well, im happy with Ubuntu and im sure many other people would be more happy too if they would (let) change their OS.

All very valid points, but from my experiences of telling people about other OSes, they really don't care unfortunately. I'll put it this way, I don't know anyone has actually bought a windows disk except for my dad, yet everyone I know uses it either solely or alongside other OSes, meaning either it was preinstalled or they "found" one... To those people, the end cost is the same (though it could have made the preinstalled comp a bit cheaper).

I still have XP on my desktop because of games and I like the games, being the college student that I am, but i'm not really a huge fan of their host OS. Frankly, if I had the cash right now to build a new system, i'd make it the most pimped out Linux gaming rig ever and buy Cedega. I mean majorly powerful (think top of line dell XPS desktop but a hint faster and home brewed). The funny thing is though, Linux doesn't need as much to be fast for games; I bet if I had a pretty standard modern computer (i.e. something you can buy new now, along the lines of a 2ghz Core 2 Duo w/ 1 or 2GB DDR 800) and a good nvidia card (like a 7950gt) that would slay a lot of windows games out there w/ high FPS marks... w/ the emulation layer!

So what does this have to do with anything? I think what the goal of Linux should be sometime over the next 5 years or less (most likely less because stuff moves fast around here) is to be able to take a windows directx game installer disk, put it in the drive, and install it and run as if it were on windows. If we can do that and do it consistently with a variety of titles (legally), you'll see change. A lot. The cool thing is it has already started too with the WINE and Cedega projects. A lot of people who use their computers for games are young and broke like me and don't have $350 for a Vista disk nor a system ballsy enough to make it worthwhile (or just don't like it... I have it installed on a VM so I can "test" it until it's finally stable/ kind of stable/ doesn't not work). P.S.- I think it's funny that Vista has been out for nearly a year and it still has no where near the usage of XP, but I guess if people got used to using it for 5 years and it still has a little bit of support life left, why not run out the clock....

I think what would be great to see is youtube videos of people demonstrating new games that are released only for windows, but in the last 30 seconds of the video, close the game and return to a Linux desktop (and make it obvious w/ a big 'ol logo on it for whatever distro it is).

On the other hand though, it would be wise to simultaneously swing the other way too and try to push for more cross-platform OpenGL based games so emulation layers are unnecessary. But yeah, just some thoughts on what would be really cool to see. All I have left to say is i'm getting more an more familiar w/ Linux and Mac OS now that i've used both for over a year and once WinXP goes the way of Win98, there's only going to be one entry left on my bootloader: the free one.

[Chayak]

Linux certainly has it's place but it's not going to turn into a big part of the market. Distros all like to do things differently and it hampers network admins. I learned with shell and I'm very comfortable working in it but many of the adminitrators I've ran across are not as adept and having good GUI tools to manage server functions is a must. I know it goes against some people's sense of eliteism but the easier it is to configure and use the more people will use it and the less time an admin has to spend on it the better.

I use and play with just about ever OS I can get my hands on. I use windows at work and for games, a mac for my media, and my ubuntu server for backups and storage and my ubuntu workstation for general tasks.

I don't doubt that Ubuntu has the potential to get it's share of the pie but it's not going to magically take over the entire market.

[jrusso2]

I keep hearing this for the last ten years. Linux was going to be big in 1999, then it was 2001.

Seriously Linux needs to be preinstalled, it has to be able to run the popular commercial apps people want.

Adobe Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Microsoft Office would be a good start.

Then it needs better hardware support. Especially video and sound cards.

It need to support mice with five buttons out of the box. Web cameras, wireless without resorting to hacks like ndiswrapper.

It needs to come with the codecs, proprietary drivers and firmware.

If people are willing to make these changes desktop Linux can succeed.

If not it will stay like it has always been, for computer hobbyists and geeks.

Which is fine with me personally. But there are a whole lot of people who are against making the changes that linux needs to make.

Thats really what's held it back.

[corney91]

Only 0.81%??? I was convinced it was 3.4%: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
And yes, Linux will rule the world!:)

[RAV TUX]

...I keep hearing this for the last ten years. Linux was going to be big in 1999, then it was 2001....

...It need to support mice with five buttons out of the box....

I wasn't speaking of Linux in general, I was specifically speaking of Ubuntu.

My seven button Razer Copperhead mouse works out-of-the-box, which btw it did not work in Windows XP even with the CD it came with. Go figure.

[aysiu]

Just because the boy cried wolf a few times and the wolf didn't come then doesn't mean the wolf will never come when the boy cries wolf. It does, however, mean people won't believe the boy any more.

[AusIV4]

I don't forsee a world where Linux is the ruling system and Windows and Apple have both fallen. I don't even particularly want to see such a world.

My hope is simply that Linux - in its various distributions - will take a large enough market share (maybe 15 percent), that hardware and software vendors find it worthwhile to use cross platform libraries. If your hardware and software options are independent of your operating system, it becomes impossible for one OS vendor to monopolize the field.

As Steve jobs once said, MS doesn't have to lose for Apple to win. Like wise, both MS and Apple don't have to lose for Linux to win. All that needs to happen is for Linux to get enough enough of a market share that it can no longer be ignored.

[RAV TUX]

Just because the boy cried wolf a few times and the wolf didn't come then doesn't mean the wolf will never come when the boy cries wolf. It does, however, mean people won't believe the boy any more.

...but when the wolf howls after consuming the boy, the irony will be much more fitting.

Eventually, is the key word to my OP.

[RAV TUX]

I don't forsee a world where Linux is the ruling system and Windows and Apple have both fallen. I don't even particularly want to see such a world.

My hope is simply that Linux - in its various distributions - will take a large enough market share (maybe 15 percent), that hardware and software vendors find it worthwhile to use cross platform libraries. If your hardware and software options are independent of your operating system, it becomes impossible for one OS vendor to monopolize the field.

As Steve jobs once said, MS doesn't have to lose for Apple to win. Like wise, both MS and Apple don't have to lose for Linux to win. All that needs to happen is for Linux to get enough enough of a market share that it can no longer be ignored.I think you are forgetting the first focus of Ubuntu is to overcome bug #1.

[BuffaloX]

About crying wolf, I think Vista is the wolf, People cried wolf when XP came out, the wolf being MS call home. Now MS call home is worse than ever, and DRM pestilence is built in all the way into the kernel. Vista is the wolf, hopefully people will flee from it.

Personally I tried Suse Linux about 6 years ago, It was nowhere near having a chance on my desktop.

Ubuntu today is much much better, thanx to the entire Linux community, and a very great effort by the Ubuntu team.

Every platform I have chosen since the beginning of the 80's have become dominant for home computing AFTER I chose them. Not because I'm particularly clever, but probably because my choises are based on much the same parameters as the majority.

PS:
6 people I know now use Ubuntu, after I introduced it to them...
It's not because they depend on me, or follow me as some sort of guru, It's just because Ubuntu really is very good. :popcorn:

[RAV TUX]

About crying wolf, I think Vista is the wolf, People cried wolf when XP came out, the wolf being MS call home. Now MS call home is worse than ever, and DRM pestilence is built in all the way into the kernel. Vista is the wolf, hopefully people will flee from it.

Personally I tried Suse Linux about 6 years ago, It was nowhere near having a chance on my desktop.

Ubuntu today is much much better, thanx to the entire Linux community, and a very great effort by the Ubuntu team.

Every platform I have chosen since the beginning of the 80's have become dominant for home computing AFTER I chose them. Not because I'm particularly clever, but probably because my choises are based on much the same parameters as the majority.

PS:
6 people I know now use Ubuntu, after I introduced it to them...
It's not because they depend on me, or follow me as some sort of guru, It's just because Ubuntu really is very good. :popcorn:The Linux, Debian, and Ubuntu teams have worked hard to get where they are today.

This isn't a passing fad, some said that they heard the same thing year after year,...I would say be patient again "Eventually" is the key word. The unmistakable evolution to a Linux dominate society is inevitable, time is on our side. This may or may not happen in our lifetimes but it will inevitable happen no matter how hard the forces that be try to reverse or kill Linux progression.

[RAV TUX]

About the Wolf/boy analogy...I see it a bit different.

My thought process is inspired by the Native American Story which I call the mouse-to-Eagle (http://www.ilhawaii.net/%7Estony/lore116.html) story(actually called: "The Story of Jumping Mouse").

Like the mouse that inevitably becomes an Eagle, every "boy" has the potential to become a "Wolf". The "Wolf" being the Linux users/developers and the "boy" being everyone else.

As I stated before the irony would be the Wolf consuming the boy; this could translate into the boy(apple/windows user) being consumed(consumed by) and becoming a Wolf(Linux user/developer).

The evolutionary transformation of the boy-to-wolf takes place after being consumed by Linux and inevitably becoming a Linux user/developer.

The inevitable progression of this evolutionary progress I see as inevitable not because Linux can be free(monetarily), but because Linux/Open Source gives to the user a bit of power. This power is based in the technology and knowledge that is Open, and this is further implemented by the freedom of the user/developer to apply their unbridled imagination(see the Albert Einstein quote in my signature) to the evolutionary process of technology. As everyday users become more aware and cognitive of the technological tools available to them in Linux, how can they accept being spoon-fed technology strained through a cheese cloth at a high price.

I see the evolution of a Linux user base correlated with the evolution of human intelligence. This evolution is inevitable.

[JAPrufrock]

When we think of what the future of personal/small business computing will be, our vision shouldn't necessarily be constrained by what the present is like right now. The future will not necessarily be dominated by a bloated OS (e.g. Vista) with expensive applications that cost the same or more over time, but offer very little improvement in functionality. Another plausible scenario is that the dominant OS will be resource efficient, stable and relatively trouble free (e.g. a Linux distro like Ubuntu), and killer applications will be free or very inexpensive because they will be accessed on-line. As increased band-width becomes available to more and more users, on-line apps should become much more popular. Google seems to be gong in that direction. Right now Google users have on-line access to a word processor, spreadsheet and presentation software (like powerpoint). The apps are not as good as MS office, nor OpenOffice, but, with time, they may be (should be?). The bottom line is, Who knows what the future will be like and what Microsoft's role will be? - or Ubuntu's, for that matter.

[michiel.patrick]

I agree with one of the earlier post. in a perfect world 33% would be macs, 33%windows, and 33% would be linux. This would create enormous competition and the consumer would benefit.

[mad chey]

I dont know what i feel with regard to the debate of linux rulling the world :P

If linux in general or one specific flavour of linux became the dominant OS, would that mean its users would then be the targets of the infection creators?

Many people, (my husband included) freak at what i have done to get ubuntu working exactly as i want it, i can remember talking hubby thru doing his own pc and half way thru he said "i dunno how you manage this ive got a mega headache" and i had to take over and finish it, unfortunately he is not an isolated case and there will always be people that want it all handed to them on a plate.

Myself, you will never see me go back to windows, i refuse, and im so darn stubborn that i will find a way to get it to work "eventually", hey theres that word, i get a bit nervous around new distro time, but im excited to...acutally i think they are prob the same feeling :D

What i would like to see is other people accepting that i dont run windows, and not critsicing me for it. Personally i feel that human beings are naturally sheep, there are a few of us that break the rule but most will follow along blindly even if it is to end up falling off a cliff.

Oh and the 1 and only person i know that has vista, is my father in law as his company upgraded his company laptop and it came with it installed, he hates it, and had a lot more hassle getting it to run World of Warcraft than we did :lolflag:

so all in all im torn in half, yes i want to see the unfair global monopoly fall flat on its face, yes i would love to see linux have a much much larger share of the pie

but not if that means that we suddenly get all the idiots and ***** joining us, causing mahem and havoc as they do in all other walks of life, i like the community spirit and feel that there is here and yeah i guess im frightened that with masses and masses of people comes the community smasher and the fact that it may get so idiot proof that places like this will no longer be needed. (so to speak)

as you were my two pennith over

love you all

chey

[Ireclan]

The inevitable progression of this evolutionary progress I see as inevitable not because Linux can be free(monetarily), but because Linux/Open Source gives to the user a bit of power. This power is based in the technology and knowledge that is Open, and this is further implemented by the freedom of the user/developer to apply their unbridled imagination(see the Albert Einstein quote in my signature) to the evolutionary process of technology. As everyday users become more aware and cognitive of the technological tools available to them in Linux, how can they accept being spoon-fed technology strained through a cheese cloth at a high price.

I see the evolution of a Linux user base correlated with the evolution of human intelligence. This evolution is inevitable.

You do know that something else could come along and sweep Linux away along with Apple and Windows, right? Linux is not the PERFECT operating system. I'll agree it's pretty good, but nowhere near perfect. Remember, there's the potential for other operating systems to evolve, either in the commercial or free sector, such as BSD, or some as yet non-existent company. I daresay that Web operating systems might be the future, as one poster here has recently pointed out. If that is the case, Linux will need to evolve, or fall.

Now, as to your statements regarding intelligence and Linux...I agree, humans WILL keep evolving intellectually. What I think this means, however, is that they'll eventually want to go higher and further at a faster rate than capitalism (which arguably is one of the reasons that current locked-down operating systems exist) will support, which means capitalism will fall. I know not what government will replace it, but I think it will be much more Utopian than any system before it, though it WILL NOT be perfect. With the rise of this new economy will come more freedom of information, which I believe is Linux's (or whatever its ideological future equivalent is) chance to pounce. So, in summary, yes, I think an operating system very much like Linux in ideology (but perhaps not functionality, it may be entirely different there) will eventually triumph. But I don't think it will happen in your lifetime. Sorry.

(You may think this is all just an off-topic anti-capitalist rant, but I see it as related to your statement and VERY relevant.)

[irv]

After reading through this discussion on the future of Ubuntu Linux, or any other Linux Distro for that matter I thought I would make a few comments.

There is a group of computer users in the world today that fall into a group that is completely different then what I call the general user. The ones in this group are the ones that not only use a computer but are those who are overwhelmed by the working's of it. Both software and hardware. These are the pioneers of Linux as a OS.

There are many users around the world that are just like me who fall into this group. From the day we first put our hands on a computer we were sucked in. My first computer was all in pieces the first day I got it home because I wanted to see what made it tick. We, in this group are the ones who do things like programing, hardware repair and helping our friends, relatives and our neighbors with there computer problems. We are the ones that are introducing the general users to Linux and we will be the ones there to help grow the Linux user base as time go on.

The question, “Will Linux become as popular as Windows and Mac?” I will say that depends on us Linux user, and that includes all those in both the computer junkies and the general user group. And it also depends on how user friendly it becomes to those that are using Mac's and PC's with Windows as a OS now.

There are two things that need to happen before Linux becomes establish like the other big boys. 1.) It needs a larger user base and 2.) Hardware and software vendors need to support this growing user base. When these two things happen Linux will grow to its place in the world like the other OS's. By the way number one needs to happen so number two will follow. It all depends on what the Linux user of today does. This is the real factor in the growth of Linux tomorrow.

How many Linux OS's have you installed for others? I have installed Ubuntu on 9 PC's this month. Lets get busy now!

[phrostbyte]

Unless Microsoft really does something interesting with Windows it's pretty much doomed. Now, I am saying Windows is doomed, the company that makes it will be around for quite awhile I think. It's kind of like Edison vs Westinghouse on electrical distribution about 100 years ago. General Electric still exists, but they aren't promoting DC power as a distribution method anymore. :)

[Quillz]

I predict and I honestly believe Ubuntu can in fact do it!~overcome Apple and Windows...

By George I think they've got it!

I have never believed this possible with past Ubuntu releases but I honestly believe and I predict that Ubuntu will one day first surpass Apple and then Windows in it's user base...

With the Gutsy release I now realize that this in fact possible.

Eventually.
Please step back into reality and realize Ubuntu, let alone Linux, will never, ever, ever overtake Windows in market share. Thank you.

[American_Outcast]

Please step back into reality and realize Ubuntu, let alone Linux, will never, ever, ever overtake Windows in market share. Thank you.

Anything is possible.

[phrostbyte]

Please step back into reality and realize Ubuntu, let alone Linux, will never, ever, ever overtake Windows in market share. Thank you.

That's a really silly thing to say.

[Kappity]

I've gotten interested in Ubuntu over the past couple of months, installed it about three weeks ago, and have been learning about it, playing around with it, reading and posting on these forums. I like what I see, and consider it a serious possibility for home computer users. I think it's only going to get better, and easier for the non-geek to use.

I'm not predicting it "overcoming" anything, and I can't even say I'm interested in such an outcome. I'm quite happy with Mac OS X, have been able to live with versions of Windows through XP (the last version I owned myself was Win98 SE), and have never tried Vista, so it's not fair for me to criticize it. Others feel free. :)

What I am interested in is seeing Linux have enough success that it keeps MS and Apple on their toes, knowing that they have competition. I've probably mentioned my satisfaction with OS X more times than is diplomatic on this forum. I don't want Apple to get complacent, though, thinking that Windows is their only competition, or to think that they're assured of future business from people who have switched to them.

And face it, there are always going to be a large number of computer users who flatly refuse to deal with command line stuff. If they can't set up their computer completely by clicking on easy menu options within a GUI, maybe typing in a little simple information like user names and IP addresses, it's not going to happen. If Linux can't appeal to these users, it will probably never even overtake Apple, let alone MS. There's no sense in being a computer snob, and saying, in a condescending manner, that such people should just stay with Windows. That's the point. They can. ;)

[lancest]

Things are starting to change but we hardly notice. As I have stated before -certain laptop manufacturers (ASUS, ACER, BENQ & others) are already beginning to offer Linux as an option to Vista on laptops in my area. Some have Linux stickers on the laptop and others are putting it in promotional material. There are very viable reasons for this here including piracy, IP development and general public distaste for Vista. This is developing and will pick up pace in the future. No need to worry about desktop Linux becoming popular- because it is making good progress outside of USA.

[American_Outcast]

Things are starting to change but we hardly notice. As I have stated before -certain laptop manufacturers (ASUS, ACER, BENQ & others) are already beginning to offer Linux as an option to Vista on laptops in my area. Some have Linux stickers on the laptop and others are putting it in promotional material. There are very viable reasons for this here including piracy, IP development and general public distaste for Vista. This is developing and will pick up pace in the future. No need to worry about desktop Linux becoming popular- because it is making good progress outside of USA.

Brand new computer. Had Vista on it for a half an hour. Ubuntu64 7.10 is now on it. The only reason I got it was that the hardware was great for the price, sorry to say better then what Dell currently offers. I still keep an older computer with XP on it, but it is only for games now. I don't even have it hooked up to the internet, lol.

My point? I have Vista, I don't like it or want to use it. Ubuntu in my opinion blows past Vista in many areas, including stability. I couldn't believe how much my computer lagged with Vista but Ubuntu is running more with graphics and Compiz and I can still multi task, and I mean multi-task, with out lag, crashing or a hundred windows popping up..... What where they thinking, the more windows that warned you of things would make people feel more secure?! XP is an excellent OS compared to Vista, lol. Even ME was better then that.

If Ubuntu keeps going at this rate and Windows at their rate, common sense says things will change sooner then some may think.

Ubuntu is moving ahead. Windows is, well I am not sure what they are doing but they are seriously outdated.

For the record. I am not bashing Microsoft. I am stating my experiences and my opinions and thoughts based on those experiences.

[multifaceted]

I kind of like it not being in the mainstream. it's more sacred that way I guess...

[alcatraz678]

First there was browser wars, then there was console wars, then now OS wars: Windows/Ubuntu/MAC

Deciding who shall win is very tricky, Windows is leading because of the impression and the support of many system/computer providers.

Mac cherish their userbase, and its ease of use

While Ubuntu is leaping incessantly. Hope this will continue, and improve as time beyond.

[RAV TUX]

Ubuntu Can!

[irv]

The people I see switching to Linux are those who are fed up with virus and having problems with there windows OS. Take for example the other day I had a windows user tell me that his IE was broken and he could not run videos over the web. To solve the problem he installed Firefox. I told him I was using Firefox in Linux and that I don't have these problems like he did in IE and windows. He said enough is enough and he switch to Ubuntu Linux.
I think if people would just give Linux a try they would see for themselves that it is the way to go. I know, not everyone will give up their windows but what the heck not everyone in the world is alike.

[boast]

I can't even get back and forward buttons of my MX510 working with a fresh install... the average joe does not want to go into xorg to edit things.

Linux has a long way to go without drivers from companies.

[Kingsley]

I can't even get back and forward buttons of my MX510 working with a fresh install... the average joe does not want to go into xorg to edit things.

Linux has a long way to go without drivers from companies.
Isn't that a gaming mouse? Average Joe would most likely have a simple optical mouse.

[American_Outcast]

Isn't that a gaming mouse? Average Joe would most likely have a simple optical mouse.

And serious gamers are not scared of editing gaming files in windows. The average Joe would have an average computer with an average mouse and average keyboard, printer, sound card, etc. They would use it to surf the net, play music, email and so on. Real gamers can edit gaming files on windows with, for example, hex editors with ease.

[Bruce M.]

It's getting close to that.
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2

Hey, I'm a 0.81%er!
I gave up about 3 percentage points for: security, peace of mind, a learning experience, and lets not forget my wallet! O:)

[American_Outcast]

Hey, I'm a 0.81%er!
I gave up about 3 percentage points for: security, peace of mind, a learning experience, and lets not forget my wallet! O:)


They have a poll there for the browsers people use. Firefox is far in the lead. I remember before when people said it would be like Netscape and that Internet Explorer would always be number one.

Now as far as this link goes. When it says market share, are they talking about those who buy Linux? Or are they talking about the estimated percentage of users?

[|2A|N]

I don't see this happening because there are to many companies making money off of Microsoft and Windows. Now if 3rd party companies could make money off of Linux like they do Windows then I would agree hands down. Sad but True and this is why Microsoft has the upper hand and always will unfortunately. When a super virus wipes out Windows you can be sure Linux will be ready :guitar:

[American_Outcast]

I don't see this happening because there are to many companies making money off of Microsoft and Windows. Now if 3rd party companies could make money off of Linux like they do Windows then I would agree hands down. Sad but True and this is why Microsoft has the upper hand and always will unfortunately. When a super virus wipes out Windows you can be sure Linux will be ready :guitar:

I have to disagree a bit. Speaking for myself only of course. The money I save on having to buy an expensive OS gives me a little extra money to,

Spend on hardware (Upgrade, etc,)
Buy software (Including games that work with Linux,)
Buy online services, (for ex. Emusic or WoW each month,)

The money I save on the excellent support at these forums is also a factor.

I have four computers. From a PII up to an AMD 64 x2. I can just use Ubuntu, Linux in general or even BSD. Get them set up and save a lot of money instead of junking the computers or buying updated versions of an OS that would probably not even work that well on older computers anyways.

So what manufactures need to realize is that many of us Linux users are willing to spend money in other areas. Those areas are the ones the companies could really make out on and I think they would make a lot more of a profit this way.

(I am speaking from a Desktop Users perspective. Now if you go into the small business to corporate level then the savings are even greater in many different areas.)

Microsoft will need to change with the times instead of trying to take over everything. They are not and don't seem to want to do this. So I see this as a very bad business flaw that will end up bringing them down faster then anything else. (though granted, it won't be tomorrow, lol.)

[Bruce M.]

I think you are forgetting the first focus of Ubuntu is to overcome bug #1.

At the risk of sounding dumb ... bug#1 ?
I'm still an Ubuntu newborn, give me a clue please.

[agurk]

Not do I only believe, Vista removed any remaining doubt.

[SunnyRabbiera]

well ubuntu certainly has the potential to do it, as do some other distros out there.
Linux itself can do it, distros like mandriva, PClinux, Mepis, Ubuntu all show potential to make linux mainstream.

[Bruce M.]

They have a poll there for the browsers people use. Firefox is far in the lead. I remember before when people said it would be like Netscape and that Internet Explorer would always be number one.

Now as far as this link goes. When it says market share, are they talking about those who buy Linux? Or are they talking about the estimated percentage of users?

Yes, and before I dropped the 3 percentage points to join the Ubuntu world, I was one of those Firefox users in the other OS. Because it was safer. :)

[Bruce M.]

One last comment today before moving to another thread. I've just finished reading this entire thread, and whether or not Ubuntu will overtake MS/Mac, I honestly don't know. But I do believe that it has the potential to become a very good competitor with other OS's. In my humple opinion, it is a better OS then windows.
In fact correct me if I'm wrong, but "Windows" isn't even a true OS, it's an MS-DOS shell program that Bill Gate had to come up with to compete with Steve Jobs's graphical based "MacIntosh".

[Billy_McBong]

In fact correct me if I'm wrong, but "Windows" isn't even a true OS, it's an MS-DOS shell program that Bill Gate had to come up with to compete with Steve Jobs's graphical based "MacIntosh".
i think 3.1 was just an extension to DOS but 95 was a true OS

and on-topic i think Linux(not sure which distro, Ubuntu has a good shot) will one day have a decent market share

[ericesque]

The prediction is funny to me. It is reasonably safe to predict most anything without a defined time frame. Shoot, I predict that the Detroit Lions will win a superbowl. Commence infinite waiting... Hey! I'll even put money on it. When I die, I owe you nothing-- we're simply still waiting.

If you think you're the first to predict Linux gaining the majority marketshare, I'm sorry but you're at the end of a long line. Within that line there are already a reasonable amount of people who were bold enough to claim it would be Ubuntu.

Believe me, I'm glad that you are excited about Ubuntu and that it meets your computing needs. I realize this is really what you're expressing with your prediction. I'm still looking forward to installing Gusty. The stability of the liveCD alone blew me away.

My opinion is that predictions like these weaken the image of the linux community and pose no opportunity for benefit. We don't need to recruit. We don't need to profess Linux desktop readiness.

Right now, the type of users that Linux needs are the kind that will find it on their own. The developers, the power users, and forward thinkers. It is every advantage for the community to not have to support people who really just wanted Windows to begin with.

I say: Build it and they will come. First, those who will make Linux stronger. Then the masses will find their way. With sincerity, I hope I do not live to see the later.

[irv]

Since I don't have to dig in my pocket every time a new OS hits the market, and when it does. run out and buy a new computer or update the hardware to handle the new OS. I can do other things like: collect older PC that people what to get rid of and are willing to give them away because there is a charge to dispose of them. I load Linux on them and give them away to people that need a computer and are living on a very tight budget. Depending on the size and power of the PC determents the Linux I install. My furnace room looks like a junk yard for old PC's and my wife is always after me to clean it up but I need them for all the spare parts I use.
I could not do this if I had to run out and buy software. A lot of people would not have computers if I had to do this.
Linux is here to stay and the user base is growing.

[Henry Rayker]

I predict and I honestly believe Ubuntu can in fact do it!~overcome Apple and Windows...

By George I think they've got it!

I have never believed this possible with past Ubuntu releases but I honestly believe and I predict that Ubuntu will one day first surpass Apple and then Windows in it's user base...

With the Gutsy release I now realize that this in fact possible.

Eventually.

I seriously doubt it. I have no issues with Linux in general possibly overcoming OSX, but unless Microsoft REALLY REALLY R.E.A.L.L.Y. screws something up (I mean like...their OS causes a nuclear war or something...not that it gets viruses and whatnot) Linux (as a whole) won't stand much of a chance...

Honestly, in order to get enough people to switch to 'surpass' the user base, you need to have something that matches and overcomes the user's expectations...most users honestly just need a web browser...until Microsoft just totally disables the web browser, these people won't have a reason to switch...they're happy where they are...

[mdsmedia]

About the Wolf/boy analogy...I see it a bit different.

My thought process is inspired by the Native American Story which I call the mouse-to-Eagle (http://www.ilhawaii.net/%7Estony/lore116.html) story(actually called: "The Story of Jumping Mouse").

Like the mouse that inevitably becomes an Eagle, every "boy" has the potential to become a "Wolf". The "Wolf" being the Linux users/developers and the "boy" being everyone else.

As I stated before the irony would be the Wolf consuming the boy; this could translate into the boy(apple/windows user) being consumed(consumed by) and becoming a Wolf(Linux user/developer).

The evolutionary transformation of the boy-to-wolf takes place after being consumed by Linux and inevitably becoming a Linux user/developer.

The inevitable progression of this evolutionary progress I see as inevitable not because Linux can be free(monetarily), but because Linux/Open Source gives to the user a bit of power. This power is based in the technology and knowledge that is Open, and this is further implemented by the freedom of the user/developer to apply their unbridled imagination(see the Albert Einstein quote in my signature) to the evolutionary process of technology. As everyday users become more aware and cognitive of the technological tools available to them in Linux, how can they accept being spoon-fed technology strained through a cheese cloth at a high price.

I see the evolution of a Linux user base correlated with the evolution of human intelligence. This evolution is inevitable.Funnily enough, that's the way I see it too.
Lots of people just can't see past their naval as far is what IS ALREADY HAPPENING, even if it is not obvious to them.

Just the fact that I, an accountant, PC enthusiast, non-tech person, am using Ubuntu Linux...or any flavour of Linux....is an indication that the revolution is slowly but surely coming to fruition.

The improvements in Linux since I've been using it are incredible. I'm confident in telling people that Linux is better, that there are alternatives to most of their apps.

I tried RedHat Linux in the late 90's, early 00's and the improvements are astronomical. I'm still using Dapper, and I still swear at Windows every day. I haven't installed Edgy (although it's on my seldom used desktop) and certainly not Feisty or Gutsy. What wonders are still to be discovered??

Linux has its faults, no question, but they are not what a lot of Windows users perceive them to be and they do not measure anywhere near the faults Windows has. [/rant]

Rav...I admire your optimism and I agree with you.

[Bruce M.]

NOTE: OFF TOPIC

How can I "join" this thread?
I'll be hitting page "refresh" for a while if someone cares to help.

END: OFF TOPIC

[American_Outcast]

NOTE: OFF TOPIC

How can I "join" this thread?
I'll be hitting page "refresh" for a while if someone cares to help.

END: OFF TOPIC

The top right under thread tools has the option to join a thread. you can also check auto join threads in your user control panel area.

[Bruce M.]

The top right under thread tools has the option to join a thread. you can also check auto join threads in your user control panel area.

Duh, that was easy.
... Done ... thank you!

[American_Outcast]

Duh, that was easy.
... Done ... thank you!


Your welcome. It is easy to over look that, I did when I first joined this forum. The set up was different then what I was use to with forums.