Wine: Good or Bad

[Circus-Killer]

Just want to see how people feel about the wine project. Do you like it? Do you think it is a good thing for linux? Or does it give software companies the chance to be lazy and not make linux binaries?

So....is wine good for the foss world?

[mrgnash]

I don't use it, so it's really not a big deal for me.

[GSF1200S]

Well, I guess it is a double edged sword. You could argue that devs would be lazy, but then again maybe not.

They could simply keep in mind how WINE works when they design, so that WINE implementation would be easy. As it stands now, WINE is a very good way for linux users to break windows dependencies. For example, Ive gotten my mom onboard with Ubuntu, and quicken 2000 which shes used forever works under wine. She prolly wouldnt have used ubuntu if it werent for that program functioning. So, we now have 1 more linux user as a result of WINE, and since then shes been telling all her co-workers about how fast it is, and how she doesnt have to worry about viruses. A few have even started into Linux as a result.

As I said with ease of WINE implementation, take Blizzard for instance. I dont know about all there games, but Diablo 2 and WoW work awesome in WINE, and they are both popular games. Now, it may require more work for a dev to design a game like, say, Oblivion or Armed Assault that will work with WINE, but still.

I think its a good stepping stone for Linux. We are in a vastly better position than we were in terms of quality programs (granted i wasnt here earlier unfortunately). Krita, Xplane, the Gimp, Amarok, K3B, etc are all positive steps to offering a potential convert from the Windows world a full desktop alternative. WINE only compliments this...

[sunexplodes]

I see its purpose.

I used it a great deal when I first migrated over from Windows. For instance:

I used to use it for Dreamweaver, but I've since learned how to write better code from scratch, hence I don't use dreamweaver anymore.

I used to use it for uTorrent, but I discovered Deluge, which does all the stuff I need.


It's a good migratory tool, but I think it should be used to ween people off of windows gradually, rather than using it constantly.

[DalekClock]

It also eases the burden of developers writing cross-platform applications, they can just re-compile Windows ones against Winelibs.

[Circus-Killer]

all very good points. about the point of using it to ween people off and not use it constantly, i felt much the same way at the beginning. eventually, i decided to stop using it completely.

The thing is I have gone back to using it, primarily for games. I refuse to run windows, even in a virtual machine. so for me the best option is wine. for the few games that do work natively i do run them natively (eg. doom3) but for the rest i see wine as my only resort.

i can definately see wine being a good thing, in terms of playing windows games. my only concern is that it might discourage developers from creating linux binaries like id software did. i also tend to worry about the length of time a game will continue to work in wine. for example, i can get warcraft 3 working perfectly in wine, but because of constant development, a year from now it may not work anymore.

i guess basically i am conflicted. guess thats why i started the thread. but all good points from all of you. keep them coming. ;)

[GSF1200S]

all very good points. about the point of using it to ween people off and not use it constantly, i felt much the same way at the beginning. eventually, i decided to stop using it completely.

The thing is I have gone back to using it, primarily for games. I refuse to run windows, even in a virtual machine. so for me the best option is wine. for the few games that do work natively i do run them natively (eg. doom3) but for the rest i see wine as my only resort.

i can definately see wine being a good thing, in terms of playing windows games. my only concern is that it might discourage developers from creating linux binaries like id software did. i also tend to worry about the length of time a game will continue to work in wine. for example, i can get warcraft 3 working perfectly in wine, but because of constant development, a year from now it may not work anymore.

i guess basically i am conflicted. guess thats why i started the thread. but all good points from all of you. keep them coming. ;)

I hear you. The sound broke on Diablo 2, to a point where you had to set a registry value to go straight to the video card.

You can run archived versions too.. is it possible to have multiple installs of different WINE versions? That way you could have an older version for 1 game, and the new version for newer ones.

I feel kinda guilty when I run my VM, and I dual boot which is even worse :(

[timcredible]

I see its purpose.

I used it a great deal when I first migrated over from Windows. For instance:

I used to use it for Dreamweaver, but I've since learned how to write better code from scratch, hence I don't use dreamweaver anymore.


for dreamweaver replacement, you can use kompozer. however, if you were to use joomla as your content management system, you don't have to worry about html, and your webpage will be much better than anything done from scratch anyway. most host sites have a 1 click install of joomla from their cpanel.

[samjh]

It's great for making the transition from Windows to Linux. If it wasn't for Wine, I'd probably still be dual-booting, and I guess so would a lot of other people.

Having the ability to run some Windows applications within Linux is a good force of encouragement for those who may be reluctant to make the jump to Linux completely.

[sunexplodes]

for dreamweaver replacement, you can use kompozer. however, if you were to use joomla as your content management system, you don't have to worry about html, and your webpage will be much better than anything done from scratch anyway. most host sites have a 1 click install of joomla from their cpanel.

Eh, I found Kompozer to be brutally slow, and that it produced really ugly code. Turned out okay though, because not having a native equivalent, and not wanting to use WINE, I was forced to actually improve my skill, and now I'm writing solid, clean, standards-compliant HTML and CSS (see my sig).

As far as Joomla goes, I see its value, but doing the kind of work I do, I much prefer to do something from the ground up (although the blog section of my site IS powered by Wordpress).

[quadomatic]

While WINE does somewhat justify the lack of development for software for linux, it is really great that WINE is around since it allows OSS users to cross over to linux easier since there is a chance that their Windows only programs will actually run.

[queen_yoshi]

Wine is excellent for OSS. It gives people who may be hesitant to switch their OS another reason to do so. I use it for gaming, havent used it for anything else. That in itself can be a big decision for some people to switch. Whilst in a perfect world it would be nice to not have to need Wine, realistically big companies that are making millions out of a proven non-open sourced program for Windows wont be rushing to convert across their software to *nix. Sad but a bit more realistic. If Wine bridges that gap for people then thats a good thing, and to the OSS purists - too bad more and more non-free apps and games etc are going to be used in a *nix environment as more and more people turn away from Windows, this shouldnt be seen as a bad thing, not everyone wants to use Gimp or another open source software application - they want to use the app they use at work, or school etc not an 'equivalent' !! Good work with Wine, its saved me from returning to the horror's of Vista!

:)

[Incense]

Eh, I found Kompozer to be brutally slow, and that it produced really ugly code. Turned out okay though, because not having a native equivalent, and not wanting to use WINE, I was forced to actually improve my skill, and now I'm writing solid, clean, standards-compliant HTML and CSS (see my sig).

As far as Joomla goes, I see its value, but doing the kind of work I do, I much prefer to do something from the ground up (although the blog section of my site IS powered by Wordpress).

Have you tried Quanta? It's KDE, but much better then Kompozer IMO.

[Incense]

Just want to see how people feel about the wine project. Do you like it? Do you think it is a good thing for linux? Or does it give software companies the chance to be lazy and not make linux binaries?

So....is wine good for the foss world?

As long as Windows is the biggest kid on the block, WINE is be important to the success of Linux and FOSS. Even though we have pretty good alternatives to the popular windows apps, it does ease the transition to be able to run apps that you already know. The FOSS apps will be waiting when they are ready to fully integrate.

It can be a turn off though when the app you really need (CS2 anyone?) runs very poorly, or not at all. That's enough to turn some people off to Linux, and send them back to the other side.

Now how about this question, for those who use WINE. If MS took over the WINE project and made interoperability flawless, would you still use it, or toss it aside as more MS garbage? Just wondering...

[CarpKing]

Now how about this question, for those who use WINE. If MS took over the WINE project and made interoperability flawless, would you still use it, or toss it aside as more MS garbage? Just wondering...

As long as it remained fully open-source and had independent developers as well to make sure they weren't intentionally crippling it, I'd probably still use it.

WINE isn't something to depend on, but it's a nice tool to have. Even if there are FOSS equivalents for everything, sometimes you just want to use a specific program. Think of all the little Windows apps that will never be ported because the team that wrote them hasn't been around for years.

[bobbocanfly]

I think its brilliant but can see why people oppose it. Personally it saves a lot of hassle, especially when i just migrated from Windows and didnt know about a lot of the programs i use now. Still use it for uTorrent (Used to use KTorrent but OiNK isnt that happy with KTorrent users, something about announcing weirdly or something).

[Paqman]

As long as Windows is the biggest kid on the block, WINE is be important to the success of Linux and FOSS.

This is the crux of the issue.

While it would be nice to pretend Windows doesn't exist, it does (in a big way) From a purely practical standpoint having tools for interoperability only makes Linux a stronger choice.

[Dixon Bainbridge]

Virtualisation, on any scale, is a good thing. At the end of the day, its all about the needs of the client/user. If you need an app, does it matter what platform or by what means you run it, as long as you can?

Cross platform apps will be big in the future, and hopefully, things like WINE will help highlight the fact that OS's can't work in isolation forever.

[maduranga]

in a specific cases, a program that written for windows can be emulated to get the use of the targeted app. But, I don't like emulating non open sources programs under linux. one thing is, you are supporting the software that you are emulating. The other thing is, if you like to see a day that Linux and open source software user become the majority and all leading companies develops various new softwares for linux, game developers build their games to be run on linux with its maximum performance and quality, sticking to open-source only software will help hat.
Then there will be a day that commercial os users will depends on open sources apps by emulating them on their comm os :)

Anyway, wine is good to get things done that open sources apps failed to do. But keeping the os with less number of non open source software will be a good idea

[Lord Illidan]

I use wine myself for Warcraft 3, Starcraft and MS Reader.

What can I say? Philosophically, I see it as an anchor to the windows world. However, practically, it can be an excellent tool, especially for applications which have no native equivalent, like most games, for example. As a budding programmer, it looks like a hacking miracle! Of course, I prefer native applications but they're not always there.

[BuffaloX]

Wine is good,

Wine = option
&
option = good
=>
Wine = good

Unfortunately not everything works with wine.
But it keeps getting better.

Could be extremely fun if DX10 got to work on wine, so people could switch to Linux instead of Vista for new games.

[tbroderick]

It's can't be good for the FOSS world if people are running closed and/or non-free software through wine.

[Dixon Bainbridge]

It's can't be good for the FOSS world if people are running closed and/or non-free software through wine.

Why? If open source programs are good enough then people will use them. If they aren't then they'll use closed source. Choice is good.

[bobbybobington]

In theory it is a good thing, but it has the usability of tangled ball of string. Can your mom use it? I didn't think so. then it's essentially useless. Wine could be 100 times better for open-source if it had an intuitive ui

[Lord Illidan]

In theory it is a good thing, but it has the usability of tangled ball of string. Can your mom use it? I didn't think so. then it's essentially useless. Wine could be 100 times better for open-source if it had an intuitive ui

Yes, the winecfg is quite complicated. However, once it's setup, then you can just make launchers and that's it.

[sp0onman]

i think it is a necessary evil.

[popch]

In theory it is a good thing, but it has the usability of tangled ball of string. Can your mom use it? I didn't think so. then it's essentially useless. Wine could be 100 times better for open-source if it had an intuitive ui

Since I buy my computers for myself and not for mom, I find Wine massively useful, even if I use it only once in a while. I find it so useful that I even spent some money on it. I bought Crossover which does a fine job of untangling the strings (and creating a few tangles of its own).