Moral issues with the Xbox?

[GreyFox503]

Some of you here (including me) don't like the way Microsoft does business, or maybe just don't like proprietary software, so you choose not to use MS products. I myself have stopped using Windows.

However, as a gamer, I cannot pull myself away from my Xbox, even though it's made by the same company.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Still use and love your Xbox? Or perhaps have ditched it in protest?

[heimo]

Yes, many Microsoft business practises are dirty and if you feel that supporting such a company is not a good decision, do not buy their products. If you already own something from Microsoft, why ditch it? I wouldn't buy Xbox, even though it's probably quite nice gaming system. To me, this piece of hardware also represents anti-competitive practises - MS talks about open standards and makes attempts to artificially block competition. That's hypocracy. Makes me feel sick.

Is any big company clean? Probably not. But the line has to be drawn somewhere. Only language they talk is money. Every Xbox, every Xbox game bought is a vote for Microsoft world domination, DRM'ed, closed systems, broken standards and virus infested Internet full of spam.

Oh... :-#

[Lord Illidan]

There's Sony Playstation 3 coming up... I daresay it will be a hit with it's Cell processor! Get that instead of the new one!

[WildTangent]

but i love my xbox...i just finished modding it today:
http://longlivemarneus.serveftp.net/Justin/moddedxbox1.jpg
http://longlivemarneus.serveftp.net/Justin/moddedxbox4.jpg
http://longlivemarneus.serveftp.net/Justin/moddedxbox2.jpg
http://longlivemarneus.serveftp.net/Justin/moddedxbox3.jpg

-Wild

[jeremy]

I do not buy microsoft products any more, but am still using a microsoft mouse which I have 'modded' by scraping the word 'microsoft' off it. At least I am not advertising their products to my clients!

[Lord Illidan]

What about the microsoft key on the keyboard? I hear Cherry has made a Cherry Linux keyboard with Tux instead of Windows symbol... Anybody has one?

[GeneralZod]

Since Microsoft lose money on every X-Box sold, I'd have no moral qualms whatsoever about buying 12 ;)

Seriously though, I'm not much into console gaming but I'm keeping a very close eye on the PS3 since the creators claimed that you will able to get some version of Linux for it. Just how crippled this version will be remains to be seen, but if it's hardly crippled at all, it might end up making an interesting desktop replacement. A fully supported Cell processor and GPU in my desktop? I say, "Yes, please!" :)

[rpgcyco]

I just hope NVIDIA release some kind of 3D acceleration drivers for the PS3 GPU. If they do, then it'll probably replace my current desktop PC. :)

- Rpg Cyco

[BWF89]

I don't use an Xbox. The main reason being that it's made by Microsoft. Well technically it's not manufactured by them but you get what I mean. But even if I wasn't anti-MS I still wouldn't buy it becauses:

1. I think their controller sucks. Mabye I have big hands but the way it's shaped it feels like that if I squeeze too hard on it it's' going to come flying out of my hands.

2. PS2 and Xbox basically have the same type of games. If not the same games. So why get an Xbox when you could get a PS2 and get more? Or better yet get a PS2 and a Gamecube. Then you get all the cool PS2 games and all the fun Gamecube games.

[void_false]

I hate consoles by all means. :evil:

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

The Xbox is really pretty worthless until you Mod it and can run software like this on it:
XBox Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.de/info_screens.htm)

[Stormy Eyes]

I don't give a damn about Xbox one way or the other. To my knowledge, the only really good games available are Jade Empire and Ninja Gaiden -- and don't bother mentioning Halo, because I played it and wasn't impressed. Why should I buy a console just for one or two games?

[WildTangent]

The Xbox is really pretty worthless until you Mod it and can run software like this on it:
XBox Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.de/info_screens.htm)
xbox modding is my new hobby. i fully intend to install linux on mine :P i will replace the drive before i do it. i still want to game every now and then

-Wild

[TravisNewman]

Ninja Gaiden. I need to play that game so badly.

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

xbox modding is my new hobby. i fully intend to install linux on mine :P i will replace the drive before i do it. i still want to game every now and then

-Wild

I've got X-Damn Small Linux installed on mine, and my HD is 80 Gigs... :smile:
Modding the xbox was the best money I ever spent!

[weasel fierce]

Im a playstation guy myself. Nothing particular, its just what we had, and it seems to have more games I enjoy.

And well, with PS3, it'll all be history :)

[DJ_Max]

I'll probably get the PS3 after it comes out.

Just FYI, all three consoles (PS3, Xbox 360, and the Nintendo Revolution), will use Cell processors.

[poofyhairguy]

I personally can't wait for the Nintendo Revolution. All my Playstations have had poor quality (as in they are a brick in a year), so none of those. And no Xbox for me.

[crane]

I ave considered buying an Xbox from a pawnshop, but my intentions are for modding and running linux!
Are there any good sites with info on doing this?

[pmj]

I ave considered buying an Xbox from a pawnshop, but my intentions are for modding and running linux!
Are there any good sites with info on doing this?
http://www.xbox-scene.com/

[az]

Microsoft is not evil. They are a really big company that has been convicted in the past of being a monopoly and they do everyting they can to stay within the law.

Just about all big companies are ruthless and microsoft is no different. You would have to go along and boycott just about everything you can buy, if you follow that logic.

I think proprietary software is morally wrong and I do not support it. I however do not have the same expectations from a games console. The fact that I am buying an appliance to run games does not compare with what I expect from my PC.

I do not own a games console, but I would have no problem with the fact that the games are proprietary. I just would not run them on my computer.

I find first-person-shooter games much more morally offensive, though. The fact that people get pleasure by fantasizing about twisted violent acts and the mysogenistic portait of women typical in today's games is much more disturbing to me than the capitalistic activities of Microsoft.

[Stormy Eyes]

Ninja Gaiden. I need to play that game so badly.

No you don't. Just get the new Devil May Cry if you want to get pwned by a video game.

[benplaut]

i'm not allowed to have a console :mad:

if i had an Xbox, i would just... yeah, you know the rest :P

[subc]

1- who cares if the controller sucks. you are not used to it and that's it.
2- no and no. you get more with a ps2? :D that was a nice joke btw.

xbox = sucks for FPS. good for racing games (nothing beats WASD+mouse for FPS)
modded xbox = great for backups and emulation (N64, PS1, mame, neogeo, atari, NES, snes)
modded xbox + XBMC = superb & cheap machine to play all those divx/xvid/mpeg/QT/whatever you dload from the net in your TV (plus the backups/emus)

first thing I did when I bought a brand new xbox (a couple of days ago) was to soft-mod it and install xbmc on it. whoho! now it rocks.

[Stormy Eyes]

The fact that people get pleasure by fantasizing about twisted violent acts and the mysogenistic portait of women typical in today's games is much more disturbing to me than the capitalistic activities of Microsoft.

You want violence and offensive portrayals of women? Read Homer's Iliad and Odyssey. People were getting pleasure fantasizing about "twisted" violent acts long before John Carmack wrote his first "Hello World!" program.

[GreyFox503]

Interesting responses all-around.


What about the microsoft key on the keyboard? I hear Cherry has made a Cherry Linux keyboard with Tux instead of Windows symbol... Anybody has one?

hehe... I thought about this after I decided I liked Ubuntu. I thought, "hmm... I wonder if I can get a little penguin sticker or something to put on there."


I do not buy microsoft products any more, but am still using a microsoft mouse which I have 'modded' by scraping the word 'microsoft' off it. At least I am not advertising their products to my clients!

Nice mod.


Since Microsoft lose money on every X-Box sold, I'd have no moral qualms whatsoever about buying 12 ;)

Seriously though, I'm not much into console gaming but I'm keeping a very close eye on the PS3 since the creators claimed that you will able to get some version of Linux for it. Just how crippled this version will be remains to be seen, but if it's hardly crippled at all, it might end up making an interesting desktop replacement. A fully supported Cell processor and GPU in my desktop? I say, "Yes, please!" :)

A gamespot article said that the PS3's hard drive (sold separately!) will come with linux pre-installed.



Anyway, I'm a Halo junkie, so nothing short of a miracle will stop me from buying the next Xbox. I like Nintendo too, so I'll probably buy Revolution also.

Oh yeah, and Ninja Gaiden is awesome! Great if you like games to be challenging, the way they used to be. Devil May Cry is pretty cool too.

[lotusleaf]

However, as a gamer, I cannot pull myself away

If a much hated company produced toxic waste and dumped it over the Earth were suddenly to come out with a new gadget that everyone loved and became a fad, people would buy it, thus supporting the evil company and singing about how 'evil company X may be doing evil things but I can seperate that from their polluting of the Earth'.

The consumer cannot pull away and the big corporations/organizations know this. Have you played America's Army yet? :)

Another person (GeneralZod) mentioned buying these xboxes as a loss to said company to which I ask, you mean loss leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader) rather than loss, right?

[jobezone]

Some of you here (including me) don't like the way Microsoft does business, or maybe just don't like proprietary software, so you choose not to use MS products. I myself have stopped using Windows.

However, as a gamer, I cannot pull myself away from my Xbox, even though it's made by the same company.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Still use and love your Xbox? Or perhaps have ditched it in protest?
I have a playstation 2, and if X-box wasn't made my microsoft, I would have chosen it instead. The graphic are a little better, has a hardrive, has tons of cool software of it if it's modded(like play Neogeo games with, a media Center, etc.), has some PC-like games which are not on PS" (I cry when I hear of Fable). But still, I'm pretty happy with my PS2. My favorite games are the Metal Gear Solid's, GTA San Andreas, and maybe some others. I've discovered Konami's games are usually very good, or at least very interesting. Like Shadow of Memories, for example.

[TristanMike]

What about the microsoft key on the keyboard? I hear Cherry has made a Cherry Linux keyboard with Tux instead of Windows symbol... Anybody has one?Here it is http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8233268776.html EDIT: the article is old so I don't know if you can actually get it now.

I have an XBox, it's called a PC and that's the ONLY thing MS will ever get from me. And even Windows is becomming a distant past, tho I must still rely on it for a tad longer untill I become a little more fluid with Linux.

Being a Nintendo fan, then migrating to PSX, PS2(I still have the Gamecube tho), I'm pretty instulted that MS actually went through and put out a console. Why couldn't they stay out of that market? One of the big things about the Xbox that turned me against it was forcing people to pay online games, even those make by the 3rd party for playing for free. If Socom 2 were on the XBox, you'd have to pay MS money, on top of the internet bill you currently pay just to get online, that's rediculous, that was the straw that broke my back on that. I mean, come on, how can they dare to try and charge me a subscription fee for playing the games the companies make for me to play when the PS2 online play is free, the Gamecube, for it's very limited online play, is free as well.

Besides, you can still hook a hard-drive up to the PS2 and put movies and games on it and play directly from the hard-drive now as is (if you don't have the slim PS2) and do all of the "modding" you can do with the Xbox, just do a little reading.

My opinon, if you enjoy consoles at all, is to ditch the Xbox, and stick with Nintendo and Sony, And with Nintendo announcing that ALL Nintendo games from the past will be made available for download for the Revolution, you've got a whole mass of games to re-explore.

One more thought - Goldeneye for the N64 STILL rules ANY FPS today.

[az]

You want violence and offensive portrayals of women? Read Homer's Iliad and Odyssey. People were getting pleasure fantasizing about "twisted" violent acts long before John Carmack wrote his first "Hello World!" program.


Right. And I can compare an obese man tap dancing and farting to great works of ballet just as successfully.

[BWF89]

how can they dare to try and charge me a subscription fee for playing the games the companies make for me to play when the PS3 is free,
The PS3 will actually have 2 modes of online play. The basic mode that just lets you play and use voice chat is free. Then for 5 bucks a month (I think it's $5) you can do a bunch of other stuff.

But I can't go into greater detail because I don't have the link.

[xequence]

and don't bother mentioning Halo, because I played it and wasn't impressed.

Me too, I dont understand all the hype.

Anyway Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all loose money of each purchase of the console (like someone said). They make the real money off the games.

Think about it, an XBOX for 200$. Can you get a PC for that? Hah, no! Cheapest is 450$ and it wouldent play the pc games that are also on xbox.

Then a game is 80$. It costs almost nothing to manufacture it (but a decent ammount to make the accual game).

All prices in Canadian dollars :P

[az]

Think about it, an XBOX for 200$. Can you get a PC for that? Hah, no! Cheapest is 450$ and it wouldent play the pc games that are also on xbox.

All prices in Canadian dollars :P

Sure you can. Here:
(It has twice the memory and hard drive and this is in canadian dollars)

[xequence]

Wow, ive never seen one that cheap =O

Atleast its got 4 USB 2.0 ports =P I didnt think systems with 128 MB RAM were sold. Besides an MDG one that had 128 MB but it gave you a free upgrade to 256 O.o

Though I doubt it can play halo ;-)

[WildTangent]

One of the big things about the Xbox that turned me against it was forcing people to pay online games, even those make by the 3rd party for playing for free. If Socom 2 were on the XBox, you'd have to pay MS money, on top of the internet bill you currently pay just to get online, that's rediculous, that was the straw that broke my back on that. I mean, come on, how can they dare to try and charge me a subscription fee for playing the games the companies make for me to play when the PS2 online play is free, the Gamecube, for it's very limited online play, is free as well.
Goldeneye for the N64 STILL rules ANY FPS today.
im sorry, but i disagree. ive played online on the PS2, and the Xbox, and i prefer the Xbox because their servers are faster, have lower ping, etc. the reason why? because you pay them to run the servers for you. the advantage definately outweighs having to pay for it, its definately worth it.

i do agree with your last point, goldeneye, and its pseudo-sequel, the original perfect dark are, and remain to be awesome :D

-Wild

[DJ_Max]

im sorry, but i disagree. ive played online on the PS2, and the Xbox, and i prefer the Xbox because their servers are faster, have lower ping, etc. the reason why? because you pay them to run the servers for you. the advantage definately outweighs having to pay for it, its definately worth it.

It depends on what game you'll talking about. With games like Socom 2, where there's easily 15,000+ people online, you will fine some games laggy, but thats not the case with most of the games. You will fine games on Xbox live just as laggy when you're playing people with crap connections.

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

I mean, come on, how can they dare to try and charge me a subscription fee for playing the games the companies make for me to play when the PS2 online play is free, the Gamecube, for it's very limited online play, is free as well.


I dunno, XLink Kai is free right? To play there, you gotta mod the xbox, but there is free online gaming with it...

[BWF89]

I dunno, XLink Kai is free right? To play there, you gotta mod the xbox, but there is free online gaming with it...
I don't think you would have to mod the Xbox to play it online for free. You can play Xbox games online via Xbox Connect which is a free gaming service without modding your system.

[tseliot]

The Xbox is really pretty worthless until you Mod it and can run software like this on it:
XBox Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.de/info_screens.htm)

I love my XBOX for some good (for me) reasons:

1) Thanks to Xbox Media Center I can watch films, listen to web radios, watch the TV (with the script "Web media browser" and "Gamespot" for videoreviews of games)

2) I can run DSL (Damn Small Linux) (and Gentoo or Mandriva if only I wanted) on it

3) I swapped the original 10gb harddisk with a 160GB one which stores songs, films, etc.

4) I enjoy playing some games when I have the time: mainly old Lucasarts masterpieces (Monkey Island,etc) thanks to SCUMMVM emulator, GTA games, Morrowind,etc.

5) I was tired of messing my (previous) OS (Windows) up (most of times screwing it up) when installing and uninstalling games. A console has the games I like and works out of the box. Believe me, it has been really a pain with some games with patches and graphic driver incompatibility issues (I've also had the glorious 3DFX Voodoo Graphics 4MB)

It's a nice console, IMHO better than PS2 (which I also own). I have used Microsoft products (Windows and Office) until April this year when I tried Ubuntu. I was so sick of Microsoft. The problem was that the OS didn't work as it was supposed (IMHO) to do. The result is that I don't (and I won't) use Windows but I'm very satisfied of Xbox as it is highly customisable (thanks to opensource software).

I don't want to criticise (even if I completely disagree with) Microsoft's choices or politics, I'm speaking about the quality its products.

In a nutshell don't you worry about "Moral issues", think about the product itself: is it worth buying or not?

In my opinion the answer is yes. But this is only my opinion, not a universal truth.

[KingBahamut]

Some of you here (including me) don't like the way Microsoft does business, or maybe just don't like proprietary software, so you choose not to use MS products. I myself have stopped using Windows.

However, as a gamer, I cannot pull myself away from my Xbox, even though it's made by the same company.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Still use and love your Xbox? Or perhaps have ditched it in protest?


Get rid of it if you have to play with a console, at least go Sony.

[TristanMike]

I don't think you would have to mod the Xbox to play it online for free. You can play Xbox games online via Xbox Connect which is a free gaming service without modding your system.This is true, since I'm not an xbox fan, I completely forgot about that. It's a smaller user base, but that is sometimes better.

[TristanMike]

I love my XBOX for some good (for me) reasons:

1) Thanks to Xbox Media Center I can watch films, listen to web radios, watch the TV (with the script "Web media browser" and "Gamespot" for videoreviews of games)With the PS2, you can install a Linux OS, doesn't work "out of the box" but it can be done, thus you can watch movies, wait a minute, it's a dvd player. Tho I will admit, Microsoft has the edge here, but it's all flash, they just capalized on the fact they handle that kinda stuff anyway, but the PS3 is looking quite amazing. It's good, not something I think should keep you faithful to the system, it is still designed for games.
2) I can run DSL (Damn Small Linux) (and Gentoo or Mandriva if only I wanted) on itYou can run linux on it, doesn't work "out of the box" but Sony did release a Linux version of the PS2 in Europe.
3) I swapped the original 10gb harddisk with a 160GB one which stores songs, films, etc.You can add a hard drive to the PS2, again not "out of the box" but it can be done and you don't need to modify anything.
4) I enjoy playing some games when I have the time: mainly old Lucasarts masterpieces (Monkey Island,etc) thanks to SCUMMVM emulator, GTA games, Morrowind,etc. hmmm, GTA available for PS2, and I'm pretty sure emulation is possible.

5) I was tired of messing my (previous) OS (Windows) up (most of times screwing it up) when installing and uninstalling games. A console has the games I like and works out of the box. Believe me, it has been really a pain with some games with patches and graphic driver incompatibility issues (I've also had the glorious 3DFX Voodoo Graphics 4MB)And of course, both Xbox and Sony have the better hand on this one.
It's a nice console, IMHO better than PS2 (which I also own). I have used Microsoft products (Windows and Office) until April this year when I tried Ubuntu. I was so sick of Microsoft. The problem was that the OS didn't work as it was supposed (IMHO) to do. The result is that I don't (and I won't) use Windows but I'm very satisfied of Xbox as it is highly customisable (thanks to opensource software).

I don't want to criticise (even if I completely disagree with) Microsoft's choices or politics, I'm speaking about the quality its products.

In a nutshell don't you worry about "Moral issues", think about the product itself: is it worth buying or not?

In my opinion the answer is yes. But this is only my opinion, not a universal truth.To each his/her own I'm not trying to criticise either, just letting you know of your options. But if the quality matches, then shouldn't you go for the more morally sound option? Mind you, they are both big, faceless, greedy, corporations who strive to suck our money out, but Micosoft is the bigger one. My suggestion, pull out that old TI-99/4A you got sittin around and show those companies by playing "Hunt the Wumpa" I loved that game. :)

EDIT: oops, extremely sorry about the double post.

[tseliot]

Oh, I forgot to say that Xbox has an ethernet port (with which you can transfer files to your PC and share the internet connection), PS2 needs an optional adapter (just to be more precise).

It's a matter of the games available for the consoles. There are games which are exclusive to Microsoft or Sony system. I thinks this is a crucial detail, expecially if you are willing to use the console only for games.

[dcraven]

What cracks me up about this type of discussion is that in this forum it's cool to be anti-Microsoft and beat them down with harsh words about proprietary formats and closed source development. In the same breath, Sony is praised as a righteous alternative even though it could be argued that Sony is an even bigger offender in these categories. The difference is that Sony focuses on hardware, not so much software.

I'll now go back to my rented movie, which is now by the way available in both DVD and Sony PSP formats. Maybe you should buy both.

Vowed to never buy another Sony product again,
~djc

[TristanMike]

It's a matter of the games available for the consoles. There are games which are exclusive to Microsoft or Sony system. I thinks this is a crucial detail, expecially if you are willing to use the console only for games.On this I agree with you 150% and probably is the biggest factor in why someone buys a console.

[poofyhairguy]

In the same breath, Sony is praised as a righteous alternative even though it could be argued that Sony is an even bigger offender in these categories. The difference is that Sony focuses on hardware, not so much software.


A: Sony inteads to sell the PS3 (with hard drive) as a Linux desktop box to replace a home computer.

B: nintendo

[dcraven]

A: Sony inteads to sell the PS3 (with hard drive) as a Linux desktop box to replace a home computer.

You mean like the way Apple sells BSD? I'll wait until its release before I pass judgement on it, but I have a strong gut feeling that it won't be as warm and fuzzy to the Linux community as suspected. Rape and pillage.

~djc

[BWF89]

With the PS2, you can install a Linux OS, doesn't work "out of the box" but it can be done, thus you can watch movies, wait a minute, it's a dvd player. Tho I will admit, Microsoft has the edge here, but it's all flash, they just capalized
How does Microsoft have the edge? From my understanding with PS2 Linux you can do anything you can do with your regular PC. Surf the web, use GIMP, hook up printers / scanners / digital cameras. In this case I'd say that Sony has the advantage.


You mean like the way Apple sells BSD? I'll wait until its release before I pass judgement on it, but I have a strong gut feeling that it won't be as warm and fuzzy to the Linux community as suspected. Rape and pillage.
How so? The majority of Linux software is under open source licences and Sony will probably use mainly OSS software in the PS3 Linux HDD so they wouldn't have to pay royalities on it for every HDD sold like you would if you used proprietary software. Unless Sony themselves developed it.

[poofyhairguy]

You mean like the way Apple sells BSD? I'll wait until its release before I pass judgement on it, but I have a strong gut feeling that it won't be as warm and fuzzy to the Linux community as suspected. Rape and pillage.

~djc

Normally I would agree. Sony sucks at being open. but they either play by the rules of the GPL, or we will see them in court.

[BWF89]

Normally I would agree. Sony sucks at being open. but they either play by the rules of the GPL, or we will see them in court.
Exactly. The worst they could "screw" the Linux commuity would be packageing their own proprietary software with the HDD and even then we could just remove it if we wanted.

[dcraven]

I'm not saying they will break the law of the license. They'll pay close attention and adhere to the "restrictions" spelled out by the GPL. They will, however, break the spirit of the license (yes I hear the groans). This isn't necessarily a bad thing though depending on your point of view and level of blind zealotry (/me looks at mirror).

I'm not saying the president and CEO of Sony should be thrown in jail. I'm just bringing forward the fact that many of the *moral* offenses that we throw in the face of Microsoft would fit nicely on Sony too.

I'm also not going to organize a global boycott of Sony products or anything. It's a choice I made personally to not support them. It's not going to bring them to their knees by any means, and my 'voice' won't even be heard beyond this post. Soon I'll be living in a cave drinking homebrew beer with RMS if I keep this up though...

Cheers,
~djc

[GeneralZod]

Exactly. The worst they could "screw" the Linux commuity would be packageing their own proprietary software with the HDD and even then we could just remove it if we wanted.

Probably what will happen is that the installation cannot be tweaked or modified in any way (e.g. removal of Sony software; installation of your own kernel; etc) and the driver support will be limited. Ensuring that the hardware will only boot from a Sony-signed kernel would be fairly easy and not against the GPL.

Of course, I could just be being pessimistic - rest assured, if the end user is free to do whatever they want with the Linux install, and all necessary devices have drivers, then I'll be snapping one of these puppies up in a heartbeat :)

[Freddy]

Just FYI, all three consoles (PS3, Xbox 360, and the Nintendo Revolution), will use Cell processors.

Nope they won't, just PS3. Both running on 3.2ghz though.

Sony and Toshiba developed the emotion processor for PS2 together and for the third edition of Playstation they contacted IBM, so the three of them brought the cell processor to life, I hardly think that Sony will sell, more or less their own processor to Microsoft.

PS3 is going to be twice as fast as XBOX360 and even Microsoft themself admits that , even if they don't wan't to talk about it that much for obvious reason, with nvidias new gpu (RSX) devolped expecially for the cell processor the calculated speed is 2 terraflop, which puts it in the league of supercomputers (around place 540 of the fastest computers), the calculated speed of XBOX360 is just above 1 terraflop.

I'll like the design of XBOX360 though and it's not just which console that is fastest that counts, it took several years before game developers could use the emotion engine to it's full extent and the cell is another new processor and they need to learn how to use it before they can use it fully.

/Freddan

[TristanMike]

How does Microsoft have the edge? From my understanding with PS2 Linux you can do anything you can do with your regular PC. Surf the web, use GIMP, hook up printers / scanners / digital cameras. In this case I'd say that Sony has the advantage.Don't misunderstand my statement. I'm a loyal follower of Nintendo and Sony, The "Edge" is just the ease at which Media Center can be installed, as it is a Microsoft produt, compared to installing Linux. To get Linux on a PS2 hard drive other than the one that can be bought w/ FFIX pre-loaded you might have to do some slight modifications, and you must have the Network Adapter too, plus you need some software to write the hard drive to Sony's filesystem. In some cases the Hard drive ports on the back don't match those on the Network Adapter(stratigic move made by Sony) and some very slight modifications need to be made. It can be done, it isn't like a snap of the fingers, but it can be done. That's where I feel the "edge" lies ONLY.

But here's one that hasn't been mentioned yet as far as I can see. In order to watch DVD movies on the XBox, you HAVE, and I can't stress that enough you HAVE to buy the remote. What's up with that? It doesn't come DVD playable right out of the box? That was the biggest "X" against Microsoft's XBox for me. It's no suprise though. Microsoft provides what others do for free, but charge you for the same things. People believeing that "If I'm being charged, it's got to be good, how could something that's free be better than something that cost's money?" One word answer......UBUNTU!

[jdodson]

What cracks me up about this type of discussion is that in this forum it's cool to be anti-Microsoft and beat them down with harsh words about proprietary formats and closed source development. In the same breath, Sony is praised as a righteous alternative even though it could be argued that Sony is an even bigger offender in these categories. The difference is that Sony focuses on hardware, not so much software.

I'll now go back to my rented movie, which is now by the way available in both DVD and Sony PSP formats. Maybe you should buy both.

Vowed to never buy another Sony product again,
~djc

HA! Mad props man, true statement.

You are right, it is cool to diss Microsoft and "make out" with Sony. Though there are some differences, but in the end they are both evil coroprations.

The big differences is that Sony is being backed into a corner, the Xbox was a technically better system, not surprise PS2 was first to market. Xbox had a better online game segment, it was almost no contest win here really. So PS3 is going to do somethings different. First off they are going to(it seems, though not 100% for sure) let you run GNU/Linux on the PS3, it also seems that they are using OpenGL, OpenAL, etc, which is good from a cross platform games standpoint. The best part of that is that they are spending money to extend the open graphics/sound layers. Lessie, so if the PS3 is basically just a amped up computer, why not buy one? Especially if you can dump the propreitary Sony OS for GNU/Linux, might make for a cheap desktop.

Beyond that it gets into the moral reasons for using non-free software, as the author of this thread mentions. Reason why I dont own a Xbox, PS2 or Gamecube. Its not that the systems are not fun, or technically proficent, its just that they are not free. I don't vote for propretierization with my money.

[tseliot]

...But here's one that hasn't been mentioned yet as far as I can see. In order to watch DVD movies on the XBox, you HAVE, and I can't stress that enough you HAVE to buy the remote...

It is true but I have never bought a remote for XBOX, I just use a DVD player (which is also available in a hacked version without any need the dongle, but perhaps it's not legal) (it's called DVDx or something like that) and Xbox Media Center (which also can play DVDs).

I think my Xbox would be worthless (for my needs) without open source software. It requires some modding in order to become a Media Centre. Sometimes I also play games with it.

[TristanMike]

and Xbox Media Center (which also can play DVDs).I'm sorry, I'm not too familiar with Media Center for XBox, do you mean that if I put XBox Media Center in my Xbox, I could play DVD's without the remote? How much is XBox Media Center?

[pmj]

I'm sorry, I'm not too familiar with Media Center for XBox, do you mean that if I put XBox Media Center in my Xbox, I could play DVD's without the remote? How much is XBox Media Center?
It's free, open source and a great media player. It's based on mplayer, plays almost everything right, can stream movies from another computer on the network.

My somewhat outdated version can not play DVDs, but if TristanMike says it can, I guess it improved in that area. :)

[tseliot]

I've used Xbox Media Center with some DVD films and they worked flawlessly. XBMC is updated almost every day and you can find different versions of it with fixes, improvements, skins, and Python scripts which, e.g. can stream tv stations, radio stations (through Shoutcast, iPod) etc.

It's a good example of open source software which gives a new life to the hardware.

[TristanMike]

So it is possible to watch DVD's without a remote?

[tseliot]

YES, as I've said I've never bought a remote. Xbox Media Center is the answer, it doesn't require any remote (but it supports it), I use the gamepad, it's very confortable.

[BWF89]

It's free, open source and a great media player. It's based on mplayer, plays almost everything right, can stream movies from another computer on the network.

My somewhat outdated version can not play DVDs, but if TristanMike says it can, I guess it improved in that area. :)
Hold on a minute. The Xbox media center. The one created by Microsoft that you can buy at the Xbox section of BestBuy is opensource? Since when has Microsoft created or sold and opensource program?

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

So it is possible to watch DVD's without a remote?

Yes, but if you don't have the remote, then you don't have the IR dongle.
Sooo, the best way to watch DVD's without the remote on the Xbox, is to use another app. I think the name is DvdX (region free dvd viewing without remote dongle).
You can watch dvd's with menu support, and control it with the xbox controller.

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

Hold on a minute. The Xbox media center. The one created by Microsoft that you can buy at the Xbox section of BestBuy is opensource? Since when has Microsoft created or sold and opensource program?

You've gotta read this...
Xbox Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.de)

[BWF89]

You've gotta read this...
Xbox Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.de)
Oh that. I thought you guys were talking about the Xbox Media Extender thing created by MS.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/mediacenter/evaluation/devices/xboxextenderkit.mspx

[graigsmith]

if you buy an xbox, thats like saying " i want MORE games programmed in directx" i dont want any games to be programmed in directx. microsoft is just using directx to force people to stay with their systems. if they weren't being anticompetitive they would just use opengl like every other desktop system.

[GreyFox503]

if you buy an xbox, thats like saying " i want MORE games programmed in directx" i dont want any games to be programmed in directx. microsoft is just using directx to force people to stay with their systems. if they weren't being anticompetitive they would just use opengl like every other desktop system.

This is the kind of thing I was getting at originally in this thread.

[MetalMusicAddict]

Moral issues are to be wrestled with oneself. For me I nevered liked Xbox. Though I do have one. Got it used for free. As far as consoles go Its the best thing Sony ever did. I went with them since the PS1. Ill be buying a PS3 and maybe get the new Nintendo system also.

The developers for the PS2 have seemed to continually push their hardware to new levels (GT4). I havnt seen as much for the Xbox. Ive been playing "God Of War" for the past week and I can say its really The best game Ive ever played. Everything is top notch so I wont list everything. ;) Capcom also did very nicely with Resident Evil 4. :)

[fragmental]

I'll probably get the PS3 after it comes out.

Just FYI, all three consoles (PS3, Xbox 360, and the Nintendo Revolution), will use Cell processors.
Don't spread falacy.

I don't know if this has been mentioned because I gave up on reading the entire thread, but this is very wrong. Ok, maybe not "very", but it's still wrong. Maybe you are thinking that all the new consoles will have processors based on the ppc architecture, but that doesn't mean much unless you now about endians and the difference in cisc and risc processors.

The ps3 is the only console that will have a cell processor, and it should be very sweet. It should also be the only one with an nvidia graphics chipset. I think the development environment for the system will also be linux, but I'm not totally sure on that. UT2007 was like the first game to actually run on the system because of epic's(not sure if ryan gordon had anything to do with the ps3 port, but he might have) experience with opengl and linux and mac porting.

The ps3 might actually be a very, very good thing for linux gaming, whereas the xbox and xbox360 are bad for linux gaming. I dunno about the nintendo revolution, but I'm guessing it won't support linux.

Also, I highly doubt that microsoft still loses money on every xbox sold. The components that are used in the system have gone down in price dramatically since it was release. I mean, c'mon it's like a 20 gb hard drive, 600 mhz pIII, an early generation Geforce3, and 64 mb of ram. Not only that, they get it all in bulk and have been doing so for a while.

Regardless, they make most of their money from the games that are sold.

[Goober]

I don't own a Video Gaming System, never have, and probably never will, my philosophy is that if the game cannot be played on my computer, then I am not interested in it.

but that is not what i want to say. What I want to say is that I don't consider the Xbox as bad as *******. Why? Because the XBox has serious competition in widespread use. ******* is essentially the main OS, there is Mac and linux, but ******* rules supreme, essentially, with no serious competition (I am obviously generalizing a bit here), but the Xbox has serious competition with the Playstation, and whatever the other one is called. So I don't see it as quite as anticompetitive as ******* is. And therefore slightly less evil ;)

Anyway, just muy take on the Xbox. I wouldn't have moral issues buying one because I know there is serious, credible competition. And apparently M$ loses money on it, so I heard.

[wabble]

What about the microsoft key on the keyboard? I hear Cherry has made a Cherry Linux keyboard with Tux instead of Windows symbol... Anybody has one?

Nope, but i got a thinkpad with no button at all :)

[drizek]

I don't own a Video Gaming System, never have, and probably never will, my philosophy is that if the game cannot be played on my computer, then I am not interested in it.

but that is not what i want to say. What I want to say is that I don't consider the Xbox as bad as *******. Why? Because the XBox has serious competition in widespread use. ******* is essentially the main OS, there is Mac and linux, but ******* rules supreme, essentially, with no serious competition (I am obviously generalizing a bit here), but the Xbox has serious competition with the Playstation, and whatever the other one is called. So I don't see it as quite as anticompetitive as ******* is. And therefore slightly less evil ;)

Anyway, just muy take on the Xbox. I wouldn't have moral issues buying one because I know there is serious, credible competition. And apparently M$ loses money on it, so I heard.

the xbox has been costing MS a ton of money to develop. they have actually lost quite a bit so far. there are very few other companies in the world that are able to take such hard losses without even flinching.

anyway, it looks like the revolution will kick ass. ii really hope so, because that would mean that i would no longer have to use windows at all.

[darkoptix]

Alright, I have said this lots on this forum being a close xbox guru. Xbox is a great modded console. GREAT! It totally out does the ps2 being modded in everyway for all the people arguing that the ps2 is better.

First, even before modding a xbox, you can still play on live, there is a quite good selection of games. Also the almighty system link, which in my opinion is a great way to play games with a large group of people. I know this is opinion, but I do think Halo is the greatest FPS ever(This is the first one btw, and please don't start a war because of this). It is the one game that I truly can say I have played quite a bit, and continue to(going to play a 8 player game tomorrow). I know people who have bought xboxs just for this game.

Second is modding, as quite a bit of people have mentioned. Modding opens a who new world for the xbox. Think computer on tv(almost). So Xbox Media Center(http://xboxmediacenter.de/) is a great addition to any home theater setup. When I was living with 3 friends and we had people over, being able to play music from a samba share from my computer upstairs on my stereo is a really good way to have a party. Taking requests and whatnot. Great. Also, I am a anime fan, watching downloaded shows on a tv is really nice too. In my opinion, XBMC is the best media solution ever created. Oh, and it also plays dvd WITHOUT that xbox remote. To clear that up.

Now, XBMC is not all of it. Everyone here is a linux fan, and the xbox has its number of distros ported to it. The best being GentooX(http://gentoox.shallax.com/), and Damn Small Linux(http://www.x-dsl.org/). These run quite well, but if take into account for server purposes, $200 CAD for a server I think is quite cheap.
Also is the gaming aspect opened from modded too.

Now, playing ye old
NES/SNES/MAME/N64/PS/Atari/SCUMM/GBA/GB/DOS/Collecovision/Amiga/Apple /Commodore 64/Intellivision/Sega Systems and more/ roms on a tv is awesome.
There is also a funny selection of homebrewed/ports of some games. Also, there is a quake3 port being developed.

There is also that thing that modding any type of console allows you to do... um... playing pirated games, but that is just small stuff.

Now that I am done going off about the xbox, I will get to the point. Spending money on a xbox has been a great investment. Think of just buying a media center device, and how much that is. I got one which is going to last awhile after a few more console generations. I don't care if it is Microsoft who would be getting the money. They are losing money on each xbox sold.

I do agree with what someone said about Sony. They are truly worse than Microsoft. Have you ever used a sony mp3/minidisc player. One of the reasons I cannot switch to 100% linux. Also the PSP with the formats and whatnot. Ugh... it is ugly.

Oh, and Xlink kai(http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/index.php), A free tunneling program(runs on linux :)) allows you to play with people online. It also supports other consoles like PSP/PS2/Gamecube. There are alternatives too XBConnect(http://www.xbconnect.com/) which do the same thing.

There, now the xbox is not that bad... is it?

edit: more modding info www.xbox-scene.com

[TristanMike]

...******* is essentially the main OS, there is Mac and linux, but ******* rules supreme, essentially, with no serious competition (I am obviously generalizing a bit here), but the Xbox has serious competition with the Playstation, and whatever the other one is called...."Whatever the other one is called..." :shock: :shock: You mean Nintendo? buh.....gah.......I'm speachless, I sorry I just can't believe I saw that, they've only been around since the 1800's, oh what a world we live in where people forget the name Nintendo. I think I'll sob quitely in a dark corner somewhere now, goodbye.

[blastus]

I'd never buy an XBox because I do not support Microsoft. I'd buy a console but the games I want to play (RTS) are never released on a console. Otherwise I'd buy a PlayStation.

Unfortunately, over the years I've bought some Microsoft games and a Sidewinder and I've had to buy a number of expensive Microsoft products for school. Not including buying Windows with new computers, they have probably gotten $1500 from me in the past but no more. :mad: The only product I need from them now is Windows because of games and because I need to make sure my projects run on it.

[TristanMike]

First, even before modding a xbox, you can still play on live, there is a quite good selection of games...Which as we already established, costs money to connect to the network to play the games made by other companies. Sony - FREE!
...Also the almighty system link, which in my opinion is a great way to play games with a large group of people. I know this is opinion, but I do think Halo is the greatest FPS ever(This is the first one btw, and please don't start a war because of this). It is the one game that I truly can say I have played quite a bit, and continue to(going to play a 8 player game tomorrow). I know people who have bought xboxs just for this game...Sony can do this, not with Halo of course, and I'm not sure to how large of an extent the PS2 does it, never been interested to find out. (and not to fuel a war but if you think xbox is great just because of one game, then you my friend, are as crazy as me like when I bought the Gamecube for The Legend of Zelda games but that's enough of that. :))
...In my opinion, XBMC is the best media solution ever created. Oh, and it also plays dvd WITHOUT that xbox remote. To clear that up....So I either have to pay more money (like the machine doesn't cost enough as it is) or "modify" my Xbox to watch dvd's.......granted there is no Sony Playstation Media Center, but I'll get to that one. The conclusion more work than "take out of box, hook up, chill, enjoy", I'll stick with Sony.
Now, XBMC is not all of it. Everyone here is a linux fan....(+ the stuff on emulators)In case you missed it, you could, and still can in some places, buy Linux for the PS2. Yes, that is Linux for the PS2, Linux designed for the PS2, fully functional Linux desktop OS (and I think it's GNOME or looked like it from the screens I have seen) so all those classic games, let's emulate away. And doubles as my media center of sorts.
...Think of just buying a media center device, and how much that is....Well, Microsoft Windows Media Center Edition set me back 200 bucks, wait a minute, that's the same price as.....wait a minute, I don't use Microsoft.
I do agree with what someone said about Sony. They are truly worse than Microsoft. Have you ever used a sony mp3/minidisc player. One of the reasons I cannot switch to 100% linux. Also the PSP with the formats and whatnot. Ugh... it is ugly.Yes I have used their mp3 player, what was wrong with it? You can't switch 100% to linux because of Sony's mp3 player, wow that is rough. And the PSP formats, what about them? You don't like mini discs, did a mini-disc cross your family? Did you expect the format to match all the other portable wireless, mini-disk, movie-capable, high-end PSX video game quality playing machines out there? Melting DVD's down didn't work for me so I tried shrinking it with my Jigantic shrink ray, but I've got some problems with its molecular cross-synthisis so when I get that worked out, then I'll be off to the races, I know, I know, it's not your problem. Oh, yeah, and "it's ugly" please, lets stick to real concerns please. ;)
Oh, and Xlink kai(http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/index.php), A free tunneling program(runs on linux :)) allows you to play with people online. It also supports other consoles like PSP/PS2/Gamecube. There are alternatives too XBConnect(http://www.xbconnect.com/) which do the same thing.See, isn't that nice, software for all platforms. That's the spirit.
There, now the xbox is not that bad... is it?I guess not. I just think that it doesn't outweigh in "everyway" It has some niceities, none work out of the box with no extra costs or work, unlike Sony, who supports open source, well, more than Microsoft anyway. (PS3 shipping with Linux if you haven't heard). Obviously I'm having a little fun here. Too each his own. Thanx for the info on those products I have never heard of before. :)

[darkoptix]

Alright,

Yes I have used their mp3 player, what was wrong with it? You can't switch 100% to linux because of Sony's mp3 player, wow that is rough. And the PSP formats, what about them? You don't like mini discs, did a mini-disc cross your family? Did you expect the format to match all the other portable wireless, mini-disk, movie-capable, high-end PSX video game quality playing machines out there? Melting DVD's down didn't work for me so I tried shrinking it with my Jigantic shrink ray, but I've got some problems with its molecular cross-synthisis so when I get that worked out, then I'll be off to the races, I know, I know, it's not your problem. Oh, yeah, and "it's ugly" please, lets stick to real concerns please.

Well, I'll tell you what is wrong with it, Sonicstage. Have you ever used this program? It, is crap. It takes a long time for me to transfer anything to my sony device(owned both a minidisc and mp3 player). The software is glitchy as ****, and constantly screws up in windows and with absoluty no way to transfer in linux, i'm stuck. Also, I meant ugly is the way Sony deals with the formats, not the way their devices look(they are alright in that department).


Well, Microsoft Windows Media Center Edition set me back 200 bucks, wait a minute, that's the same price as.....wait a minute, I don't use Microsoft.

Ok, now price in the main part of that. The computer. I think it would be quite expensive. Also there is Mythtv for linux which is a free alternative to Windows Media Center.


In case you missed it, you could, and still can in some places, buy Linux for the PS2. Yes, that is Linux for the PS2, Linux designed for the PS2, fully functional Linux desktop OS (and I think it's GNOME or looked like it from the screens I have seen) so all those classic games, let's emulate away. And doubles as my media center of sorts.

Alright, send me a link. Oh, and you have to *buy* linux for it. Tisk tisk.

[Goober]

"Whatever the other one is called..." :shock: :shock: You mean Nintendo? buh.....gah.......I'm speachless, I sorry I just can't believe I saw that, they've only been around since the 1800's, oh what a world we live in where people forget the name Nintendo. I think I'll sob quitely in a dark corner somewhere now, goodbye.
Ya, Nintendo, that is what it is called. Obviously I don't play Video Games, lol. I am a Computer Nerd, not a Video Gaming Nerd, lol.

[MetalMusicAddict]

Also there is Mythtv for linux which is a free alternative to Windows Media Center.
Myth is OK. Ive been doin the HTPC thing for awhile now. If you have to stay with windows Ide suggest MediaPortal (http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net/). Free and open source. Thats if you have to stay with windows. ;)

[endy]

I may not like MS' business practice but some of their hardware is alright.

And now I'll shamelessly plug a picture of my modded xbox, the front LED also goes red and sometimes even purple :D

http://img288.imageshack.us/img288/5538/xbox1im.th.jpg (http://img288.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xbox1im.jpg)

[BWF89]

Those LCD clear case moddings are cool but I don't usually play my videogames in a room with all the lights turned off.

As for the moral issues with buying an Xbox I've come to the conclusion that if I am going to buy a console based on politicts I wouldn't be able to enjoy 2 out of the 3 next gen consoles. So when the next gen of consoles comes out I might consiter buying an Xbox360 if it has the games I want to play. Although if I buy a PS3 I'll be able to have my own computer running Linux hooked up the the downstairs TV.

So many great consoles coming out. Hard to choose.

[endy]

Those LCD clear case moddings are cool but I don't usually play my videogames in a room with all the lights turned off.

As for the moral issues with buying an Xbox I've come to the conclusion that if I am going to buy a console based on politicts I wouldn't be able to enjoy 2 out of the 3 next gen consoles. So when the next gen of consoles comes out I might consiter buying an Xbox360 if it has the games I want to play. Although if I buy a PS3 I'll be able to have my own computer running Linux hooked up the the downstairs TV.

So many great consoles coming out. Hard to choose.

It looks alright in the daytime too :)

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/2738/img14696gs.th.jpg (http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img14696gs.jpg)

I think that with Sony having big problems as a business right now and MS' dodgy tactic of selling crippled Xbox360s to begin with, I'm more likely to get a Nintendo Revolution but I will wait until they have all been out a few months and if none are up to par (including games) I wont buy any :)

[Ibuntu_52]

I can't stand the xbox.As far as I'm concerned it's just a poormans gaming computer that you can't upgrade.

It's flagship series (halo) is a basterdized pc title.Basterdized by the fact that it's a first person shooter with a game pad;) .Without the possibility of user made levels or a true mod community.

Aside from that I was considering buying one and installing linux on it.

[tseliot]

I can't stand the xbox.As far as I'm concerned it's just a poormans gaming computer that you can't upgrade.

It's flagship series (halo) is a basterdized pc title.Basterdized by the fact that it's a first person shooter with a game pad;) .Without the possibility of user made levels or a true mod community.

Aside from that I was considering buying one and installing linux on it.
FPS are not the only kind of videogames (I prefer RPGs). Try Jade Empire and then tell me that xbox is "poormans gaming computer" again while attempting to keep a straight face ;) .

Of course a pc is better if you use FPS (mouse gives you the best control you can get) but there are many games which are available ONLY on Xbox (same thing happens with PS2 and Gamecube)

[liquidtenmillion]

First of all xbox isn't a pc, it is a video game console, and the most powerful one to ever be created at that.

The people who argue that the xbox is just a poor man's pc should also mention how a ps2 is a poor man's pc... from 1995.

The xbox is one incredible console, and it is capable of running linux, and quite well for that matter. The PS2 linux is not free and is unbearably slow, but this is beside the point.

Sony is to gaming what microsoft is to computer software. They both have a monopoly, and they use it to release mediocre products that they know will sell just because "microsoft" or "sony" makes it. The ps2 is vastly underpowered, horribly built, and very proprietary(the fact that you can only run linux officially made by Sony shows this...) The xbox on the other hand is very well built because microsoft knew they had to build something good in order to compete.

I bet that if Sony released the Xbox and Microsoft released the PS2 the xbox would have 90% of the market share, and microsoft releasing the ps2 would only have maybe 2% at the most.

[tseliot]

The ps2 is vastly underpowered, horribly built, and very proprietary(the fact that you can only run linux officially made by Sony shows this...)
I've got both xbox and ps2 (which I bought before the xbox). PS2 lacks RAM (it'only 32mb ram) and this affects the quality of (of the graphic of) games. You can buy a harddisk and an ethernet adpter (the xbox has them natively). It was a disappointment. But of course games like Metal Gear can make the most of the console.

[MetalMusicAddict]

First of all xbox isn't a pc, it is a video game console, and the most powerful one to ever be created at that.
PS2 isnt a PC either but at least Sony came out with a linux for it. You have to hack up a Xbox to run Linux on it.

The people who argue that the xbox is just a poor man's pc should also mention how a ps2 is a poor man's pc... from 1995.
PS2 was launched 10/26/01. Where do you get '95? Xbox and PS2 are consoles.

The xbox is one incredible console, and it is capable of running linux, and quite well for that matter. The PS2 linux is not free and is unbearably slow, but this is beside the point.
What does mentioning "free" have to do with anything? You say it like Xbox is? And I would argue the "slow" you mentioned. Watch the awesome frame-rate on GT4 @1080i. ;)

Sony is to gaming what microsoft is to computer software. They both have a monopoly, and they use it to release mediocre products that they know will sell just because "microsoft" or "sony" makes it.
Why do you belive this?

The ps2 is vastly underpowered, horribly built, and very proprietary (the fact that you can only run linux officially made by Sony shows this...)
ITS A CONSOLE!!! It doesnt have to run anything but what the developers want.:confused: PS2 is underpowered comparied to the Xbox because they launched 1st. Of course a competitor is gonna try to up-the-anty.

The xbox on the other hand is very well built because microsoft knew they had to build something good in order to compete.
Xbox is better built but that is not to say the PS2 is shabby.

I bet that if Sony released the Xbox and Microsoft released the PS2 the xbox would have 90% of the market share, and microsoft releasing the ps2 would only have maybe 2% at the most.
Ive modded MANY PS2s and Xboxs. Xboxes are cool to work on because there alot of standard PC parts that can be swapped. ie: the CPU from 700mhz to 1.4mhz. Screws with some games though as some use the clock speed for timing.

Lets see how much youll be able to hack up a 360. ;)

I have both PS2 and Xbox. Most games that are cross platform dont outshine each other. Lately Madden 2006 has with having 480p and 16:9 capability and the PS2 doesnt but that is the only that comes to mind.

If you wanna see games that developers have squeezed every ounce of preformance out of look @ GT4 or Shadow of the Colossus to name two.

In the end they are 2 very different and capable platforms.

If I wanna run linux Ill stick to my PC. ;)

[liquidtenmillion]

I was referring to the power of the ps2.

Xbox is as powerful as a powerful pc made in 2000, and ps2 is as powerful as a powerful pc made in 1995.

Ps2 linux is really crappy. Try running a gui on a 233mhz processor with 32mb of ram. It just doesn't work.

[MetalMusicAddict]

Ps2 linux is really crappy. WOW. Thats the best argument I've ever heard. Nothing but fact there. ;)

Try running a gui on a 233mhz processor with 32mb of ram. It just doesn't work.
Are you a kid? There are plenty of linux distros that will run on that along with older versions of windows.

Get you facts straight and try to not let you 1st post somewhere be a $h!tty one. You went off-topic with things that simply arent true. Any Google search would show that. Stick with the topic. Its about opinion. ;)

[tseliot]

Are you a kid? There are plenty of linux distros that will run on that along with older versions of windows.
True, but 32mb RAM don't allow you to use useful programs such as OpenOffice, etc. (it doesn't work on the xbox too 'cause it has 64mb RAM).

[fserve]

i use slackware 10.2 with kernel 2.6.13 (my compilation) in my pentium233mmx with '40-4mbram' (4 for the video onboard, sis 5597/5598) and the time to boot is very fast, and to join in the fluxbox is very fast too...

the major problem with my 233 is the mobo, have a sis5513 controler using ata33, it is too much slow and slowdown all :\

anyway, in this athlonxp i use ubuntu and it rocks xD

[Ibuntu_52]

First of all xbox isn't a pc, it is a video game console, and the most powerful one to ever be created at that.

The xbox has some sort nvidia geforce card (I think intel makes the processor, i'm not sure tho) and it runs a modded windows ce for an operating sytem.

Anyways my main beef about xbox is halo.It is a great title, but to bring a pc like title to a console and cripple it is what is iritating.I think it hurts pc gaming when microsoft buys out a pc company to make pc style games for there console.

Not to mention my cousin seems to think xbox is the prefered platform for fps.

[Muhammad]

I prefer the Sony PS2, that's because I'm more into RPGs then FPSs, not because the Xbox is made and published by Microsoft, I'm pro-Linux, not anti-Microsoft. :)

[Ibuntu_52]

I'm not anti-microsoft I'm anti-corporate.I feel that a good majority of major corparations tend to do skrewed up things, money kinda has that affect on some people.

Sony has atrac3

MS has wma

see theire all the same! j/k

Also isn't funny how microsoft claims wma are better than mp3's because theires is lossless.But ms's codec was denied mpeg status

(pardon the bad gramar)

[tseliot]

I prefer the Sony PS2, that's because I'm more into RPGs then FPSs, not because the Xbox is made and published by Microsoft, I'm pro-Linux, not anti-Microsoft. :)
Do you know Jade Empire, Star Wars Knights of the old Republic (1 and 2) and Morrowind?

They are all amazing RPGs (for Xbox). Of course if you like Final Fantasy or series like that PS2 is the best choice (I was a fan of Final Fantasy some years ago)

[bob_c_b]

If a much hated company produced toxic waste and dumped it over the Earth were suddenly to come out with a new gadget that everyone loved and became a fad, people would buy it, thus supporting the evil company and singing about how 'evil company X may be doing evil things but I can seperate that from their polluting of the Earth'.

You get it, hit it right on the head. Just because the Xbox supports some games you like does not mean it still isn't a product of MS and the fruit of some of their other misdeeds. The Xbox is one more venue for MS to promote Direct 3D over OpenGL and move more developers into using MS developement tools exclusively.

[DJ_Max]

Don't spread falacy.

I don't know if this has been mentioned because I gave up on reading the entire thread, but this is very wrong. Ok, maybe not "very", but it's still wrong. Maybe you are thinking that all the new consoles will have processors based on the ppc architecture, but that doesn't mean much unless you now about endians and the difference in cisc and risc processors.

The ps3 is the only console that will have a cell processor, and it should be very sweet. It should also be the only one with an nvidia graphics chipset. I think the development environment for the system will also be linux, but I'm not totally sure on that. UT2007 was like the first game to actually run on the system because of epic's(not sure if ryan gordon had anything to do with the ps3 port, but he might have) experience with opengl and linux and mac porting.

The ps3 might actually be a very, very good thing for linux gaming, whereas the xbox and xbox360 are bad for linux gaming. I dunno about the nintendo revolution, but I'm guessing it won't support linux.

Also, I highly doubt that microsoft still loses money on every xbox sold. The components that are used in the system have gone down in price dramatically since it was release. I mean, c'mon it's like a 20 gb hard drive, 600 mhz pIII, an early generation Geforce3, and 64 mb of ram. Not only that, they get it all in bulk and have been doing so for a while.

Regardless, they make most of their money from the games that are sold.
I'm just going by. http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/7511/Cell-Processor-to-Run-at-46-Ghz/

If you read up on the Xbox, you'll know they used Apple G5's for kits before the actually machine was made.

[Muhammad]

Do you know Jade Empire, Star Wars Knights of the old Republic (1 and 2) and Morrowind?
They are all amazing RPGs (for Xbox). Of course if you like Final Fantasy or series like that PS2 is the best choice (I was a fan of Final Fantasy some years ago)

I'm getting Star Wars knights of the Old Republic for the PC next week http://ubuntuforums.org/images/icons/icon10.gif It's the reason I kept WindowsXP on the other partition.

But yeah I like Final Fantasy and Digital Devil Saga so the PS2 is the right choice for me.

[MetalMusicAddict]

The Xbox is one more venue for MS to promote Direct 3D over OpenGL and move more developers into using MS developement tools exclusively.
A monopoly like MS can try to "move more developers" all they want. The developer has that choice. What we want is for them to take a stand and either give the finger to MS or also support OpenGL. :) Its also up to us not to buy the system or games.

I am a console fan though. I grew up on Atari and Nintendo. I seperate consoles from PC software as far as morality goes. Though I dont like the Xbox. I have one but I didnt pay for it. Had it mostly to learn from. How to mod it and such. I only own 1 game for it. :)

I own a PS, PS2 and plan on buying a PS3.

[fragmental]

I'm just going by. http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/7511/Cell-Processor-to-Run-at-46-Ghz/

If you read up on the Xbox, you'll know they used Apple G5's for kits before the actually machine was made.

Looks to me like all that article says it that the ps3 will use a cell processor. It is weird that it's on an xbox website, but it doesn't say anything about the xbox or the revolution. Cell is strictly a Sony thing(well toshiba and IBM are involved too, but they don't have consoles). The Xbox 360 and Revolution will both use processors that are made by IBM and based on the ppc architecture though. However, programming between the cell and ppc architecture is hugely different.

Edit: accidentally typed "nintendo and revolution." need more sleep

[fragmental]

A monopoly like MS can try to "move more developers" all they want. The developer has that choice. What we want is for them to take a stand and either give the finger to MS or also support OpenGL. :) Its also up to us not to buy the system or games.
I am a console fan though. I grew up on Atari and Nintendo. I seperate consoles from PC software as far as morality goes. Though I dont like the Xbox. I have one but I didnt pay for it. Had it mostly to learn from. How to mod it and such. I only own 1 game for it. :)
I own a PS, PS2 and plan on buying a PS3.

One cool thing about the ps3, is that it uses opengl, but that still doesn't mean that developers who port their games to ps3 will port it to linux. I hope it makes it more likely. I will probably buy a ps3, if I happen to be sweating money around the time I want to buy it. I will not buy an xbox360. Might buy a revolution.

I don't know what the revolution will use for graphics api. Their own api maybe? I doubt it will be directx.

[MetalMusicAddict]

One cool thing about the ps3, is that it uses opengl, but that still doesn't mean that developers who port their games to ps3 will port it to linux. I hope it makes it more likely. I will probably buy a ps3, if I happen to be sweating money around the time I want to buy it. I will not buy an xbox360. Might buy a revolution.
I don't know what the revolution will use for graphics api. Their own api maybe? I doubt it will be directx.
The PS3 is a lock but Im not sure a bout the Revolution. Im totally excited about the ability to play their entire back catalog of games (Please dont mention ROMs. Their illeagal if you dont own the original.) but the controller is weird. I also havnt seen screenshots of new games for it. Ill look now.

[DJ_Max]

Looks to me like all that article says it that the ps3 will use a cell processor. It is weird that it's on an xbox website, but it doesn't say anything about the xbox or the revolution. Cell is strictly a Sony thing(well toshiba and IBM are involved too, but they don't have consoles). The Nintendo and Revolution will both use processors that are made by IBM and based on the ppc architecture though. However, programming between the cell and ppc architecture is hugely different.
You must be right, as before I've seen that the Xbox will use a Cell processor, but they probably don't know the difference between Cell and PPC processors. Also, this was a few months ago, when things were rumors.

Also, it's the Nintendo Revolution, they're not two consoles, unless you meant Xbox.

Also, to your other statements about Microsoft loosing money on every Xbox sold, it's possible. As according to Sony, they will lose money on every PS3 sold, but like you said, they make the money back, and than some on the games sold. It's called "loss leader". So it's very likely that Microsoft loses money on Xbox's sold.

[Greyfoxwolf]

Why should there be a moral issue, its your choise dude, example:
linux-windows: i choose linux cuz...simply put i LIKE it better
i love console gaming
Nintendo-Playstation-Xbox: i choose xbox cuz...i LIKE it better
on things like this (product choise) you should choose for the stuff YOU like,

[fragmental]

I meant revolution and xbox 360. I fixed it. I heard once that sony lost $4 for every ps2 sold, but I'm sure that price changed as hardware dropped in price, and so did the cost of the unit. I doubt they're losing money on the ps2s now but they could be. Nintendo is probably the company that makes the most money on hardware alone, just because the don't try to be a loss leader.

BTW, as far as I know, there are no screenshots of revolution games because they have not been made. There are not a lot of xbox 360 or ps3 screenshots either. There are probably some for Xbox360 because it's nearing release and there might be a ut2007 screenshot for the ps3, though. Most of the so called screenshots or in game videos are actually just prerendered screens or videos, and those don't count.

[DavidGX]

No issues here. Had an xbox, loved it. Have an xbox 360, love it even more. I don't use windows because it sucks ass, not because I have some microsoftphobia or anything. The viruses, the spyware, the vulnerabilities, etc, etc. That's reason enough to switch to linux right there.

Don't forsake the 360 just because it's made by microsoft. It's really a lot more than just some chips and a box, you have to sit down with it and go online to really experience it. The games, xbox live/arcade.. etc. They really did a bang-up job on this thing and I absolutely love it. If ms would only put the same effort into windows that has gone into the 360 they would have a kickass OS. I'm not going to deny myself the awesomeness of the 360 just because microsofts OS guys are shady. They aren't the only ones (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139482.html) who have done some crap (http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/04/0457249&from=rss).

But what it comes down to is, it's the most powerful console with the games that I enjoy. Hey, maybe microsoft will eventually stop making crappy OS's and stick with the consoles? Eh? Nah probably not.. I can dream though :lol:

[ember]

Well - I have an Xbox and maybe in a year or so, when I have some more money and there are some more reasonably good games out there for it, I will buy a Xbox 360.

And well - if you object to buying things from Microsoft, why do you buy Sony then? Are they less 'evil'? I doubt it.

[Malphas]

And well - if you object to buying things from Microsoft, why do you buy Sony then? Are they less 'evil'? I doubt it.
Yes, exactly.

[dosed150]

i have an xbox but i bought it preoened so ms didnt get a penhy

[dueyfinster]

I have the original, I am most likely not going to buy the Xbox 360. I might buy PS3, depending on its Linux functions and xtensability. I am getting a Nokia 770 Linux Tablet for Christmas, Linux all the way!

Games are way to dear to buy, I mean I know they have good graphics, but the price takes the ****! Plus I am just a natural PC person, I don't know what it is, I just feel at home at a PC more than a console.

[Linux BASHer]

Some of you here (including me) don't like the way Microsoft does business, or maybe just don't like proprietary software, so you choose not to use MS products. I myself have stopped using Windows.

However, as a gamer, I cannot pull myself away from my Xbox, even though it's made by the same company.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Still use and love your Xbox? Or perhaps have ditched it in protest?

GreyFox503, I also have moral issues with Microsoft. This is why I am completely Microsoft free. I have a Mac and a Ubuntu linux box. I don't have ******* on the box at all. I simply refuse to use anything Microsoft. The XBox and maybe some other Microsoft products may be relatively good products in their own right, but how many other businesses and products have been denied entry into the "free market" because of Microsoft? How many dreams have been destroyed or denied birth thanks to Microsoft's unethical behavior?

This is what you need to keep in mind when you have a choice to support Microsoft by buying from them and using their products or choose a product from another company or person.

Sure, probably all big companies do things they shouldn't at one time or another, but as has been said, one needs to draw the line somewhere. Sometimes it's a choice between the lessor evil. By azz's logic, all companies all just as guilty, so it doesn't matter which you choose. I ask you-- is a thief as morally apprehensible as a murderer?

But, if you're going to make a stand for your beliefs, understand that you will have to make sacrifices. And that relates to your XBox as well. At least, you have (two other) good choices in that area.

You see, I have no problem with proprietary software. I don't think its wrong for an individual or a company to want to protect their own creation from others who would abuse it. Now, it is the commercial licenses which I think are often excessive. Also the abuse of patents and copyrights to things that should have never been granted them in the first place (or should have expired long ago) to hinder the efforts of others, specially Open-Source software I find quite despicable.

The curious thing is, Microsoft has been a detriment to both commercial and Open-Source software development. So no matter where you stand on that issue, you shouldn't be supporting Microsoft at all.

My personal advice: Ditch the XBox and get another console. Everything you have and use is an advertisement and approval for that thing, unless you have no choice (which you do). You don't have to do it right away or "cold turkey". Switch to another console, try it out and when you've weened yourself away from your XBox dependency and found a better game to spend your time on on one of the other consoles, ditch it.

And so GreyFox503, that's my take on this issue. I congratulate you on actually applying your moral beliefs to the companies you support. Morality is not somehow "separate" from the companies you buy from, by choice. In fact, though some people may wish it so, morality is not "separate" from anything else we do in life; It must be part of how we always conduct ourselves, where ever we go and whatever we do.

I wish you well on your decisions!

[poptones]

Look, I don't use windows and I'd sure never buy an xbox... but, please: why don't you explain exactly how MS has been detrimental or in any way negatively affected open source software development?

I'm sure many world governments, the RIAA, the MPAA, the SPA and many others would like to know how MS has managed to do something they never could.

[DariusTriplet]

While the general consenus in this thread paints Microsoft as Lawful Evil, Sony as True Neutral, and Nintendo as Lawful Good, such descriptions are rather isolated from truth.

For instances of questionable tactics by Nintendo, their actions during the 16-bit era are less than savory. The best example I can think of offhand is how, when Squaresoft asked for a large amount of space for Secret of Mana, Nintendo told them their request was impossible - then went and made Super Metroid, which had the same space that Secret of Mana was originally to have.

Sony has pushed for monopoly and various consumer rights restrictions. Sony's refusal to acknowledge Andreas Pavel as inventor of the Walkman was outright theft, and this latest nonsense with SonyBGM drives home their ruthlessness.

In all, no company is really that much worse than the others (although, compared to MS and Sony, Nintendo is an avatar of purity), and it comes down to what it really should be all about - what system plays the games you want. I enjoy playing WRPGs, FPSes, and action/adventure games; the 360 best fit these needs.

[darth_vector]

i never could get used to consoles. i had a NES a long, long way back but that was my first and last console.

without a keyboard and mouse i am a lost puppy :(

[JimmyJazz]

XBOX is gonna be very antique very fast when PS3 hits the market.

[DariusTriplet]

XBOX is gonna be very antique very fast when PS3 hits the market.

Doubtful. Eventually, graphics will hit a plateau where there's simply no room left to develop. Compare the rapid development from 1980 to 1995 versus 1995 to 2005. In mathematical terms, assuming that x is defined as year and f(x) is defined as graphical power, there's a definite lim(x->inf) f(x).

While the PS3 may look better, it'll be like comparing SNES to Genesis - one looks somewhat better, but neither blows the other out of the water.

[bored2k]

Doubtful. Eventually, graphics will hit a plateau where there's simply no room left to develop. Compare the rapid development from 1980 to 1995 versus 1995 to 2005. In mathematical terms, assuming that x is defined as year and f(x) is defined as graphical power, there's a definite lim(x->inf) f(x).

While the PS3 may look better, it'll be like comparing SNES to Genesis - one looks somewhat better, but neither blows the other out of the water.
That was the most rational statement I've ever heard concerning the new generation consoles war.

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

I'll still take my chipped generation 1 xbox over that new stuff any day of the week.

[GreyFox503]

An interesting round of new replies.

In some ways, my dilema will be over when the next round of consoles comes out. I'm going to buy Nintendo's Revolution and not get myself hooked to another system.

Both Sony and MS have gone out of their way to disrespect their customers, IMO. And if you take the punishment and keep coming back for more, it just shows them that it's acceptable to you, regardless of how you feel about it. Feelings don't send companies messages, dollars do.

As DariusTriplet pointed out, Nintendo looks like an angel compared to my other choices.


On another note: after having many views and replies to this thread, I don't think anyone has mentioned the irony that my name, Grey Fox, is a character from the Metal Gear series, which is a Playstation franchise, even though I own an Xbox...

[DavidGX]

XBOX is gonna be very antique very fast when PS3 hits the market.

Actually, the xbox 360 is just about exactly as powerful as the ps3, if not just a little more. Don't believe everything sony tells you.

[mistic]

Well,

I certainly don't like "Micro$oft Windows" BUT I must admit that the hardware manufactured by M$ is of a really high quality. My keyboards and mouses are all made by them...

And I really like playing on my XBOX...

You COULD use your XBOX for 'hurting' M$ though... On every sold XBOX or XBOX 360, M$ is losing an amount of money (used to be 500 $ when they first dropped the price of the XBOX to 150$ ) BUT they make a huge amount of money on the licences for the games... SO if you get an xbox and then don't buy any games you hurt M$ (allthough its probably about the equivalent of getting a headbut from a fly) AND if LOTS of people do it, who knows :-)

So my advise for eveybody thinking about getting an XBOX360, wait untill the first price-drop and then get it so you hurt them more :-)

[exkalibur]

The Sony playstation....Does it come with pre-installed rootkit ????

:rolleyes: :p :confused:

[prizrak]

cheap second hand moded xbox is the best way to get a media center :)

[DavidGX]

The Sony playstation....Does it come with pre-installed rootkit ????

:rolleyes: :p :confused:

lol

[DavidGX]

I don't consider myself some "boyscout of the business world" here to defend truth, justice and the blahblahblah. I buy and use what I enjoy. I happen to enjoy xbox quite a bit. I don't enjoy windows. Not because microsoft is evil and they're mean and they took my dolly and my lollipop waaaah... etc, etc. Windows just sucks ass. But xbox does not.

[ericvmazzone]

Since Microsoft lose money on every X-Box sold, I'd have no moral qualms whatsoever about buying 12 ;)

The best part, is for every unit of any X-box item sold is M$ has to pay a small company in Michigan $ for copy right infringment, for the name X-Box. I don't remember the details but I got a big laugh when I read about that.

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

cheap second hand moded xbox is the best way to get a media center :)

Definately, Yeah!!!:p
I still can't believe that the stores are still trying to get like $120 for the old ones...
I have been waiting for the bottom to drop out of these for a while. I could use a few more!:cool:

[TeeAhr1]

I won't buy one, partly out of protest, but mostly because it seems to be a decidedly subpar gaming platform, especially the 360, which was obviously rushed out for Christmas even though it was (and still is) nowhere near ready for mass consumption. I expect to have to hack my computer to make it do what I want (and indeed, as a Linux user, I see it as half the fun ;)). I shouldn't have to do it to my gaming rig.

*anxiously looking forward to the Nintendo Revolution...*

[vayu]

I think there is a moral issue with gaming boxes in general. I don't believe large companies (including M$ and Sony) should be coercing large amounts of societal energy (aka money) in their direction when a PC (which is much more versatile and generally more capable than gaming boxes) should be the dominant medium.

[RaiSuli]

I have to admit that I very much enjoy my modded X-Box. It comes with a 160gb hd, plays dvds, avis, mp3s, etc, so I use it not only for gaming, but also as my stand-alone dvd player and as an external harddrive whenever I run out of space on my desktop computer. For me the X-Box was money well spent, and I have no moral issues with that.

[hillbilly]

I know that there are a lot of people out there who think microsoft is the resident evil. Maybe it is, but then whenver they do release a product which is worth buying, then I dont see whats so bad about buying it ! I for one am a bit hesistant to buy any micorsoft product, but if I do, its not becuase Iam leaving Linux. And I dont see anything morally wrong about it either ;) !!

[tseliot]

I have to admit that I very much enjoy my modded X-Box. It comes with a 160gb hd, plays dvds, avis, mp3s, etc, so I use it not only for gaming, but also as my stand-alone dvd player and as an external harddrive whenever I run out of space on my desktop computer. For me the X-Box was money well spent, and I have no moral issues with that.
I use my XBOX in the same way as you do but I haven't got a modchip (I sold it): I have flashed the BIOS with an Xecuter one.

[SteelValor]

Since Microsoft lose money on every X-Box sold, I'd have no moral qualms whatsoever about buying 12 ;)

My thoughts as well. The Xbox & the 360 wont be turning a profit anytime soon.

[SteelValor]

The Sony playstation....Does it come with pre-installed rootkit ????

:rolleyes: :p :confused:

That's still in beta X'D

[awakatanka]

I have a xbox and i have mod it with a chip so it can run xbmc with it. Its a true multimedia system now and with all those phyton scripts its a very good machine now.

For gaming i don't use it but i installed some emulators so if the kids want it they can play some good old school games, from back in the time that games where good.

Only my wife plays some prince of persia with it. But manly its a multimedia system that is on almost 24/7

xbox 360 i wont buy, only if it can be mod also i will think and compare the benefits.

[Robert.Zapata]

No moral issues here.!!! :)
I hate the *******XP OS but the XBOX consoles are fine products. I got my original XBOX used last year for less than $100 and I only play "Ghost Recon 2" and "First to Fight" and from time to time "HALO 2" and that's it. I used to have a XBOX LIVE account but I really suck at playing, so I did not renew it. Anyway...seems like the new PS 3 will beat the 360 big time but I'm not planning on upgrading soon (too expensive for me). so far the original XBOX works fine to me and when the PS 4 is ready to hit the market I'll probably buy a used PS 3.

[Shay Stephens]

I do not buy microsoft products any more, but am still using a microsoft mouse which I have 'modded' by scraping the word 'microsoft' off it. At least I am not advertising their products to my clients!

Hey thanks for the idea, that was a lot of fun, and felt rather therapeutic hehehe

[Fenris_rising]

My faithful xbox one is softmodded with XBMC I stream music, videos to it from my PC. Today I got it back on line via my PC having tried kai again and got it working. Ironically I then found I had, at some point, installed it on the xbox but hadn't been able to get it working or some such........until 5 minutes after I got the PC version going =D This is the only thing I like that came out of Microsoft but even then it needed modding to make it better =D

regards

Fenris

[sydbat]

@Fenris_rising - Threadcromancy of the year award!

[ctrlmd]

#-o
It's a gaming console just enjoy your time \\:D/
if you like something why would you prevent yourself from enjoying it 8)

[Fenris_rising]

=D I didn't notice. Perhaps this is my vocation!!

regards

Fenris (Necromancer)

[chris200x9]

=D I didn't notice. Perhaps this is my vocation!!

regards

Fenris (Necromancer)

in before close!

[sudoer541]

AAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW!!! I want to buy a Wii!!!
but its a bit expensive $210!

[azkmb]

Funny, Bill Gates plays Bridge (with real cards and Warren Buffett as a mate)! You would not find him playing those Xbox games and look where it got him! ;)

[beetleman64]

I've swung between Nintendo, SEGA and PlayStation my entire gaming life without Xbox platforms coming into it, but I can see your issue. If your must break away from Xbox then may I suggest the PS3, most 3rd Party releases are released on it and there are some massive exclusives.

[Frak]

My thoughts as well. The Xbox & the 360 wont be turning a profit anytime soon.
Had to quote this b4close.

[hobo14]

Had to quote this b4close.

He means the unit itself is a loss leader, and profit comes from software and accessories, which in this case is correct. Same with Sony and the PS.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2005/tc20051122_410710.htm
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50957
http://www.fearlessgamer.com/2009/07/24/xbox-division-sees-a-66-profit-loss/

[Frak]

He means the unit itself is a loss leader, and profit comes from software and accessories, which in this case is correct. Same with Sony and the PS.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2005/tc20051122_410710.htm
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50957
http://www.fearlessgamer.com/2009/07/24/xbox-division-sees-a-66-profit-loss/

They're making a large profit on the Xbox360. They've serviced the storm, and Xbox360's are still just under the Wii in sales.

[Kdar]

I never was into Consoles (always been PC gamer), but I have to say that PS3 does look much nicer.

If I was a Console gamer, I would probably pick PS3.

[Frak]

I never was into Consoles (always been PC gamer), but I have to say that PS3 does look much nicer.

If I was a Console gamer, I would probably pick PS3.
I'm sticking with the 360, mainly because:

a. The games are awesome.
b. I can deploy games from my computer straight to my 360 with little effort.

[chris200x9]

why is this thread still open? :lolflag:

[Frak]

why is this thread still open? :lolflag:
Sure, why not.

[murderslastcrow]

Unless you need to play Banjo Kazooie : Nuts and Bolts, Halo, Fable, or other Microsoft titles, a PS3 is the perfect replacement (and now at a reasonable price). The interface, included wifi, free online gameplay, and peace of mind are all just bonuses.

I love Banjo Kazooie, and I still don't regret it at all.

[hobo14]

They're making a large profit on the Xbox360. They've serviced the storm, and Xbox360's are still just under the Wii in sales.

They make their large profit from software and accessories. The unit itself is a loss leader.

[Frak]

Unless you need to play Banjo Kazooie : Nuts and Bolts, Halo, Fable, or other Microsoft titles, a PS3 is the perfect replacement (and now at a reasonable price). The interface, included wifi, free online gameplay, and peace of mind are all just bonuses.

I love Banjo Kazooie, and I still don't regret it at all.
You seriously cannot forget the expansive XBox Live Arcade. There are so many great games in there.

[Frak]

They make their large profit from software and accessories. The unit itself is a loss leader.

OK, but the Xbox is still posting record profits. The unit, like you said is a loss leader, but Xbox is a profit leader.

[Gallahhad]

Some of you here (including me) don't like the way Microsoft does business, or maybe just don't like proprietary software, so you choose not to use MS products. I myself have stopped using Windows.

However, as a gamer, I cannot pull myself away from my Xbox, even though it's made by the same company.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Still use and love your Xbox? Or perhaps have ditched it in protest?

It's just a console. I does not judge, and neither do I or most of the rest of the planet, at least as far as gaming consoles go.

Name a console manufacturer that does not have a checkered past...
Can't be done.

[chillicampari]

...

Name a console manufacturer that does not have a checkered past...
Can't be done.

Coleco maybe? I don't know.

[swoll1980]

Coleco maybe? I don't know.

Coleco Visions were made from sick puppies, and ground up dreams

[chillicampari]

Coleco Visions were made from sick puppies, and ground up dreams.

Now my childhood memories will be forever tainted, perhaps some things are best left undiscovered.

[swoll1980]

Now my childhood memories will be forever tainted, perhaps some things are best left undiscovered.

Sometimes the truth hurts, but you'll be better off in the long run.

[Frak]

Coleco Visions were made from sick puppies, and ground up dreams
Hahahahahaha

[PmDematagoda]

why is this thread still open? :lolflag:

Good question, thread closed. :P