carusoswi
September 22nd, 2007, 08:43 AM
i hope you're not serious about that. it would be a shame for you to feel that way over a third party application. after all, it's actually easier to get codecs and such without it. example: to get codecs, flash and java you would first have to install automatix. then:1 click-get codecs. 2nd click-get flash. 3rd click-get java. all you have to do is open add/remove and with 1 click get all of those. automatix provides no benefits.
I am quite serious, and, you are right, it is a shame. But, I also came to Ubuntu/Linux with a clean slate, so, I assure you, my view is an objective evaluation of what I observe as I browse through the forum looking for solutions and exploring for new ways to use Ubuntu/Linux. I didn't know anything about Unix/Linux when I decided to give it a try. My XP installation was starting to act up and I felt the best approach was a format and fresh install. At the time, I figured, if I was going to go to that hassle, it would be a great time to try something new, so, I googled Linux and Ubuntu must have come up as one of the more desirable distros, and, here I am.
The Ubuntu installation was surprisingly simple, and the new look and its sprightly response on my system was a refreshing break from XP. How much of that sprightliness is real and how much is just the impression one gets when switching to something new is open to speculation (and not that important to me).
If the newly installed Ubuntu had worked "out of the box" with my wireless adapter, I assure you, I would never have discovered Automatix. Adapter solutions were quickly found by perusing the forum, but, to compare the copying and pasting of code that I had to do with the Automatix process, I think anyone would be hard pressed to claim that solving my adapter issue was (is) easier without Automatix. With Automatix, I simply navigated to the third party drivers (or whatever they call that group of applications), clicked, installed, done. My description may be a little off base, but basically, it was much simpler. Same was true for enabling full read/write to my NTFS drives.
Neither of those issues was easy for me to solve without Automatix. I spent many hours over several weeks posting, reading, replying, pasting and copying code. Some suggestions worked, some didn't work, some caused me to make things worse on my machine, and then, it was another exercise to undo the new problem that my copying/pasting had caused. I probably reinstalled Ubuntu 20 or more times to restore and start over after suggestions tied me up in ways I didn't care to unravel (fresh install was simpler).
Now, I'm certain none of this is hard to folks who are either more conversant with Linux/Ubuntu command language or who like to play around with an OS just for the sake of learning the OS. As I use Ubuntu more, I'll get somewhat more conversant, myself. But, I'm not a programmer, not that interested in becoming one, and, while I have a lot of patience to deal with whatever it takes (took) to get, for instance, my wireless adapter going, working on that sort of problem isn't the reason I ventured into Ubuntu, and, for me, discovering how to get and keep my adapter working (and I have figured that out, BTW) is not fun - it's just something I had to do in order to get onto those areas that are fun. Some of us (many, actually) would confess to that fleeting level of interest in this (or any) OS. We're interested in learning Ubuntu, but, not at the deep level of many who have gone before us. I have read responses to attitudes like mine that state "Ubuntu isn't for everyone", but, I think that response is a little short-sighted and, perhaps, a little apologetic.
If Ubuntu were as easy as folks prone to attacking the Automatix team say it is, then, fewer of us would be using Automatix.
In your reply, you use the term "third party application" as if it is some sort of anathema. I embrace the concept of open source, but, in terms of my own machine, and getting it to work, I have no real issue with the concept of third party applications, and, while it's definitely great that Ubuntu and its universe of applications are free, when stuff on my own personal machine doesn't work and the solution isn't forthcoming from this forum, I have absolutely no qualms about trying a third party application.
My Canon printer doesn't work in Ubuntu. I know that isn't the fault of the Ubuntu team, but, the team's innocence does nothing to change the fact that my printer doesn't work. Blaming/flaming Canon doesn't change the fact, either. So, when a search of the forum turns up a source for a driver that will make my printer work, I have no qualms about seeking that source out and installing a third party application.
From my view, the Automatix flap is just that . . . flap. Why so much forum energy expended on badmouthing that application? I see folks ask questions about Automatx and, instead of helpful replies, they get admonishments not to use the application followed by several "piling-on" postings claiming without specific explanation that Automatix hosed this or that. Why?
Why is the Ubuntu team so defensive when it comes to Automatix. What is the purpose of the disclaimer concerning support of Automatix?
For me, it is a turn-off - not unlike the bible-thumping response I received from Compaq when, having purchased a new laptop running Vista, I called to inquire if there were any issues to consider if I wanted to remove Vista and install XP . . . a long list of warnings about how dangerous that would be because the machine wasn't designed for the XP OS. Total baloney, of course. No different than the BB sales person who, as he tried to entice me into purchasing an extended warranty, told me that the machine's warranty would be void if I opened the case, myself.
This Automatix flap is definitely a negative mark on the Ubuntu community, and it is definitely making a negative impression upon this community member.
Caruso
I am quite serious, and, you are right, it is a shame. But, I also came to Ubuntu/Linux with a clean slate, so, I assure you, my view is an objective evaluation of what I observe as I browse through the forum looking for solutions and exploring for new ways to use Ubuntu/Linux. I didn't know anything about Unix/Linux when I decided to give it a try. My XP installation was starting to act up and I felt the best approach was a format and fresh install. At the time, I figured, if I was going to go to that hassle, it would be a great time to try something new, so, I googled Linux and Ubuntu must have come up as one of the more desirable distros, and, here I am.
The Ubuntu installation was surprisingly simple, and the new look and its sprightly response on my system was a refreshing break from XP. How much of that sprightliness is real and how much is just the impression one gets when switching to something new is open to speculation (and not that important to me).
If the newly installed Ubuntu had worked "out of the box" with my wireless adapter, I assure you, I would never have discovered Automatix. Adapter solutions were quickly found by perusing the forum, but, to compare the copying and pasting of code that I had to do with the Automatix process, I think anyone would be hard pressed to claim that solving my adapter issue was (is) easier without Automatix. With Automatix, I simply navigated to the third party drivers (or whatever they call that group of applications), clicked, installed, done. My description may be a little off base, but basically, it was much simpler. Same was true for enabling full read/write to my NTFS drives.
Neither of those issues was easy for me to solve without Automatix. I spent many hours over several weeks posting, reading, replying, pasting and copying code. Some suggestions worked, some didn't work, some caused me to make things worse on my machine, and then, it was another exercise to undo the new problem that my copying/pasting had caused. I probably reinstalled Ubuntu 20 or more times to restore and start over after suggestions tied me up in ways I didn't care to unravel (fresh install was simpler).
Now, I'm certain none of this is hard to folks who are either more conversant with Linux/Ubuntu command language or who like to play around with an OS just for the sake of learning the OS. As I use Ubuntu more, I'll get somewhat more conversant, myself. But, I'm not a programmer, not that interested in becoming one, and, while I have a lot of patience to deal with whatever it takes (took) to get, for instance, my wireless adapter going, working on that sort of problem isn't the reason I ventured into Ubuntu, and, for me, discovering how to get and keep my adapter working (and I have figured that out, BTW) is not fun - it's just something I had to do in order to get onto those areas that are fun. Some of us (many, actually) would confess to that fleeting level of interest in this (or any) OS. We're interested in learning Ubuntu, but, not at the deep level of many who have gone before us. I have read responses to attitudes like mine that state "Ubuntu isn't for everyone", but, I think that response is a little short-sighted and, perhaps, a little apologetic.
If Ubuntu were as easy as folks prone to attacking the Automatix team say it is, then, fewer of us would be using Automatix.
In your reply, you use the term "third party application" as if it is some sort of anathema. I embrace the concept of open source, but, in terms of my own machine, and getting it to work, I have no real issue with the concept of third party applications, and, while it's definitely great that Ubuntu and its universe of applications are free, when stuff on my own personal machine doesn't work and the solution isn't forthcoming from this forum, I have absolutely no qualms about trying a third party application.
My Canon printer doesn't work in Ubuntu. I know that isn't the fault of the Ubuntu team, but, the team's innocence does nothing to change the fact that my printer doesn't work. Blaming/flaming Canon doesn't change the fact, either. So, when a search of the forum turns up a source for a driver that will make my printer work, I have no qualms about seeking that source out and installing a third party application.
From my view, the Automatix flap is just that . . . flap. Why so much forum energy expended on badmouthing that application? I see folks ask questions about Automatx and, instead of helpful replies, they get admonishments not to use the application followed by several "piling-on" postings claiming without specific explanation that Automatix hosed this or that. Why?
Why is the Ubuntu team so defensive when it comes to Automatix. What is the purpose of the disclaimer concerning support of Automatix?
For me, it is a turn-off - not unlike the bible-thumping response I received from Compaq when, having purchased a new laptop running Vista, I called to inquire if there were any issues to consider if I wanted to remove Vista and install XP . . . a long list of warnings about how dangerous that would be because the machine wasn't designed for the XP OS. Total baloney, of course. No different than the BB sales person who, as he tried to entice me into purchasing an extended warranty, told me that the machine's warranty would be void if I opened the case, myself.
This Automatix flap is definitely a negative mark on the Ubuntu community, and it is definitely making a negative impression upon this community member.
Caruso